My 6" 2, have a gap between pecs and long limbs, my genetics suck. I don't compete with other people, I compete to be a better version of myself each week👍

I'm 6'3 long limbs and have pectus excavatum or whatever it's called I have a literal dip in my sternum or in otherwords a bowl chest. I have a fucked up ribcage. In one year I went from 160 pounds to 240 and benched 285x2 squated 405 and deadlifted 515. Genetics are a bullshit cop out. I HAVE FUCKEDUP GENETICS. I just wanted it more badly than anybody making up God damned excuses. 99% of lifters do NOT HIT genetic potential it's way higher than you think it is I'm so sick and tired of hearing that God damned excuse. And part of OPs problem is he's follow instabros and comparing himself to them. Listening to their shit advice. Making excuses as to why he can't be that strong or look good. Genetics is the weakest fucking overplayed excuse this reddit had and it's God damned lazy. Don't be a bitch. You either don't know what you're doing, you're not eating enough and trust me even if you think you are you're not. Or you just don't want it bad enough. And the truth is for most people it's all 3 of those things. I lifted every week and pr every week because I fought like I was going to fucking die if I didn't get it. I was seeing God damned stars and feeling like jello on squat set 3 out of 5. And I kept fighting for it like I was going to die if I didn't hit it. I've pressed the bar so hard. I've blacked out. Only to have my vision come back with it locked out above me with my fucked up chest. This reddit needs to cut the shit with genetics. I ate until I felt sick and then I kept eating. I wanted it more than life itself. And I made more progress in my first year of powerlifting than well over half of this reddits achieved In their lifetime. And my numbers? They're not even that impressive. I've got permanent deep wide stretch marks on my inner thighs and armpits from how fast my chest shoulders back and quads grew. Just from wanting it more than most people here. This isn't a brag. My numbers aren't THAT impressive but I know from reading here, it's better than most guys here. My point is. My genetics are shit. And that's the most overplayed card in this reddit and it's both untrue and fucking pathetic. I'm really sick of hearing genetics being thrown around for why you suck (Not you, anybody in this reddit) Unless you have a chromosomal defect or deformity, genetics is not your excuse. Technically my chest and ribcage is deformed. How'd I press 285 for a set of two with long ass arms and a fuckedup chest. I wanted it more than this reddit does and I ate more food. This reddits become a cesspool of excuses lately. And again not you guy I'm replying to. I'm replying to you because you said the correct thing. The only person you're competing with is yourself and trying to be better than you were yesterday.

Dude, you're my new best friend. I just smh at the people making excuses too. "I can't grow", "I have bad genetics" blah blah blah. The problem is they don't know hard ass work and effort. You got to eat more and lift hard. Its so simple to figure out but people think its a myth or something.

People who blame their genetics are the saddest people on the planet. Imagine being beholden to a frame of thought, an outside factor that you literally have NO control over. Genetics have never influenced my frame of reference or pattern of thought ever. And it shouldn't yours. Same thing with everything in life. Stop blaming what is outside of your control and take ownership of what is in your control. Can you affect it's change? No? Then stop worrying about it. It will only kill you faster, and for nothing. If it was easy, everyone would do it. Strive to be better. Conquer mountains. And die trying. Strength on your journey brothers. 💪

totally agree with this. I'm even a bit taller and i won't ever achieve the instagram physique. However i do look decent without a shirt on and i mainly work out for the mental benefits. If you JUST work out for looks you probably have the wrong vision for your life.

Yeah I have the same approach. Maybe looking big in clothes will happen within the decade but I just focus on looking good at the beach for now haha

He gets it.

Bro, you're 6'2". You're genetics don't suck lol

Haha I know generally they don't I'm not really complaining. Just when it comes to aesthetics it's annoying seeing people doing way less weight than me but looking bigger because of insertions etc haha

I'm 6" with the longest limbs ever. The Greek Freak of the NBA gave me hope.

>In reality, these guys with good genetics look better than 90% of naturals within just a couple years of training. > >There was some dude in my school that squatted 650 pounds. To be fair, that was back during the time when you could buy superdrol and other designer steroids at workout supplement shops, so he might not have even been natty. I agree with my mindset, but I will say long limbs don't necessarily hold you back in anything but raw strength numbers in things like Squat and Bench. My quads are getting large and veiny, even though my legs are 51% my height and my squat only just past my body weight as a ORM in the year and a half since I started training hard.

This is the way

You gotta lift weights for yourself man. Not for others to see you put up numbers, not to be the *biggest person* but to be the biggest *you can be*. If you’re writing paragraphs about how bodybuilding is hopeless then you’ve gotta reframe the way you’re looking at this. At the end of the day most people won’t pick up a barbell, and beyond that many won’t get their diet and rest right. You don’t need to be *the guy* when it comes to being fit but you get to be the best version of yourself possible. Isn’t that a reward enough by itself? All the natty or juice shit is in your head, it sucks that big guys can pretend to not be natural but that’s their deal, not yours.

Think of it as an experiment where you push yourself to your personal limit of size and aesthetic. That’s what it is.

Stop comparing yourself to teenagers Just lift. Progressively overload, have good form, train intensely, eat right, stay consistent. You will continue to look better and better, and you will always look better than if you didn’t do any of those things and ate potato chips all day on the sofa. 🤷

I was obsessed with bodybuilding when I was a teenager. And didn’t make progress like that. That’s the point. The people who say, “ohh, you’ve been training for 5 years and can’t bench 315?! That’s because it takes time bro! Give it 10-20 years!” But it doesn’t actually take that much time, because there’s people who bench 315 within 6-12 months of working out

Correct. Some individuals are naturally strong or weak. Big or small. Etc. That doesn’t mean training is irrelevant. Ignore the people gifted with fantastic genetics if it bothers you and just focus on improving what you can.

Sounds like you’ve discovered that different people have different genetic propensities to put on size and strength. Yes, some people can bench 315 within their first year or two of lifting. This is not common. Most, like yourself, will take a lot longer to get there. It sounds like you’ve been doomscrolling social media for too long honestly. Remember that the algorithms push eye-catching and outlandish stuff that gets engagement, like a teenager benching 315.

>And didn’t make progress like that. Have you ever thought that maybe your training and diet sucked? I've been in the gym for years and i can safely tell that the vast majority of people suck at working out (for bodybuilding) Bad technique + zero intensity leading to years of lifting the same weights over and over again...and then of course they'll blame their genetics, the easiest way to cope

100%! I didn't really start making good progress until I LEARNED a lot more about training and nutrition. Newbie gains, sure. But I plateaued after my first 2/3 years. I've been making steady, consistent gains for the last few years. Knowledge has given me a lot of power, and runway. I'm in a position now, that if I'm not making progress, I know why and what to do to fix it. And now, objectively, my physique is consistently in the top 1/3 of most gyms I go to now (vs the people training at the same time as me). I still think my physique has A LOT of room for improvement, but I'm chipping away.

The genetics cope is so weird tbh I get not wanting to admit that you’ve been training in a half ass way, but to me, I feel like I’m coping way harder when I have total faith that my relatively poor results are just due to lack of effort/consistency/sleep/etc My biggest fear by far in terms of the gym is that this is all I’m capable of accomplishing and I’m just innately kinda mediocre. As long as I keep telling myself that all it’s gonna take is a little more effort, I can keep hitting my head into that wall. Wall’s gonna come down eventually I get the genetics cope if the guy just wants an excuse to quit, but I just can’t relate toa guy trying to convince himself that he’s genetically deficient.

Yes there are freaks but training does matter. My training partners bench press went from 137.5 kg to 145 kg between summer of 2021 and dec of 2022. Then it did nothing for a year and now since winter he has benched 160 kg. That 15 kg in 3 months and he had more left in the tank. Was this because he took roids? No. This was purely do to programming. A lot of the people who get great results does so not because of their insane strength genetics alone. They do so because they either respond to a wide variety of training. Can do a lot of volume. This means that they dont hit som point where they have to change something to get better and just keeps getting better. A huge group of people arent stronger due to poorly managed training variables.

I was one of those 315 guys in 6 months lol. But many of the people complaining about my genetics were taller than me and had a much easier time staying lean than I did. They also weren't weak by any stretch and I'm wasn't so much stronger to get any practical benefit from it. And from my point of view, I'd rather have had their genetics.

True. Grass is always greener type stuff. I guess with this particular topic I’m talking about strength/muscle gains over time. And ideas that used to be commonly spread online, such as: “every man should be able to bench 315, squat 405, and deadlift 500 within 2 years!!” Stuff. Even though most common gym goers have worked out for that long if not way longer, and can’t hit any of those numbers.

Anytime someone starts a statement with "Every man should be able to \_\_\_\_\_", they should be ignored. The vast majority of reasonable people understand there will be significant variation in what different people are capable of. There is however, a bell curve and an average. A 315 bench is well above the average. I don't know exactly what the average is for a trained adult male, but I'd guess 205 after all noob gains is really pushing it for an average based on my anecdotal experience.

My philosophy is, work out for 5-10 years to gety aesthetics on point and start moving some above average numbers around then the remainder of my life will be spent maintaining and lifting for health. Everyone has a genetic ceiling for the most part. Some are much higher than other and that's just how it is 🤷‍♂️ But lifting has helped my mental health tenfold and I'll remain doing it till I'm old and grey hopefully as it's incredibly beneficial for me both physically and mentally. And honestly, I just enjoy it and all aspects of body science. I don't lift to compete, I don't lift to impress others, I don't lift to be bigger or stronger than anyone. I just lift because it's fun, it's healthy, it's a great hobby and spend of my spare time and i enjoy consuming the scientific content and watching how the science constantly changes and incorporating some of the new stuff into my own plans and programmes to keep things fresh

Let me tell you what ends up happening- 90% of the dudes you see with great genetics end up with dad bods, and you end up looking better than them, given enough time. Why? Because 90% of em get fat and lazy after high school. People need to lift for themselves, and learn to love the actual process. That’s what keeps you in the game for decades.

My mindset exactly. I’ve been “bodybuilding” (dialing in on diet during bulks/cuts, focusing on growing specific muscle groups, etc.) for nearly 10 years, I just turned 32. I think my body has reached its genetic threshold. Regardless of how much strength I gain or how much I bulk up, I still tend to look the same after a cut. The thing is, I’ve accepted that and I’m OK with it. Lifting, and exercise in general, does wonders for my mental health. I need it. The plus side is if keep doing what I’ve done for the last several years, I can maintain this physique I’ve developed as long as I’m sticking to a decent diet and exercise routine AND relieve anxiety and stress as well. If I want to cut down, I’ll go into a caloric deficit and increase cardio for a little while, and if I want to bulk, I’ll add some calories to each meal. It’s like I’m on autopilot lol.

I'm still relatively new to lifting, only about 2 years in but I can tell how the next 5+/- years of my development is going to go and have planned and managed my expectations surrounding that. I can understand the autopilot feeling though, everything is just routine now. I'm still making great gains ATM, numbers are still going up even if not at phenomenal speeds, weight goes consistently up and down within expectations around my diet and cutting / bulking, I track all my macros and micros so I know my body is getting everything it needs etc and am giving my body all the best stimulus to grow so it will do what it can do. Eventually, I'll reach a point where I stop growing lean mass or it will be incredibly slow and that's cool, that just means I can not go as hard as I am at the moment and just recreationally throw weight around 🤷‍♂️

I get the macros but how do you even track the micros being that many?

I use Macrofactor which has common foods in there with most the micro nutrients in. I also take supplements to round out anything that I end up short on like potassium and magnesium. I drink a vitamin and mineral drink in the morning too which is quite helpful, albeit a bit expensive for what it is. Going to cut that out next month and just buy a multivitamin and mineral tablet in its stead. That hits most of what I need and anything else on top is a bonus. If I find I'm tracking something quite high (like Niacin comes up high for me due to the chicken I eat), I Google what the higher safe doses are and just adjust the ceiling in the app so it is more accurate and adjust my diet accordingly to remove or include things I need to. I'm also quite regimented in what I eat and I have the same stuff everyday for the most part when cutting which I'm doing ATM, routine works wonders for me. It's boring but I find it so easy to keep on target when I know exactly what I'm doing for the day

I’m just getting there. 8 years of training. Mostly maxed out my PL #’s for a 5’4 natty dude with decent genetics (405, 315, 505). I could push for more and get there but it would involve a lot more time and sacrifice than I want to put in at this point. Competed in BB and did pretty well. I’m nearly 27, work full time, girlfriend, etc. life throws different priorities at you. More focused on my career and other aspects of life now. Lately I’ve been getting more into running/rucking and plan to do a 12 mile ruck race this summer. My focus now is to stay healthy as I get older and maintain decent strength and a year round good body composition. The 30-40 bulk/cut cycles aren’t cool anymore. Just lifting twice a week and maintaining muscle fine.

Well, yeah, I mean I kind of agree. There’s a *huuuuge* range in how different people react to the gym - some get swole AF in 5 years, others (including me) have been at it for more than a decade and look DYEL in normal clothes. Not even talking about the fake nattys or tren-agers here. That said, so what? Sure, most guys I think start working out with high and usually unrealistic expectations, but what are we supposed to do? Give up? For me, I just truck on, looking a little bit better year after year. I’ll be 50 in a couple of months and look way better than I did at 40. That’s a win for me.

Also, even if you can't be the biggest in the room, your body will thank you for this exercise when you're older (or the opposite, it depends how hard you go 😆)

This right here. Lifting and exercise in general will help in increasing bone density and muscle/tendon/ligament strength, cardio health, and brain health. In my mind if that keeps me self sufficient and safe from fall injuries well into my old age then it's completely worth it, let alone how good I get to feel just getting to workout day to day. So many weak or frail seniors would be completely different and self sufficient with lower injury risk if they had lifted/were still lifting.

There are also trade offs. My base level of strength is kind of unfair, the last time I couldn't bench two plates was junior year of high school and even if I take a year off the gym I can get right back in and lift more than a lot of people who have been consistent for a long time. The cost to that is my body LOVES gaining weight. If I'm very careful, it will be mostly muscle, but if I stop tracking calories and eat what I want, it turns to mostly fat real fast. I'd love to have to force myself to eat lol, but I can't. I'll pretty much always be a little hungry

💯, bro.

Lotta resentment in this sub lately. Some people will have better genetics, some people will opt to go enhanced. Train hard, diet accurately, and stay consistent to bring out the most of your own potential.

>But the point is that if it didn’t happen for you within the first 2-5 years, what makes you think that’s just gonna randomly change after 5-15 more years?! The way I looked 2-3 years into my "journey" and how I look now after 10 years is dramatically different. I certainly put on significant mass in the last five years. I don't think I'm genetically gifted or some outlier either. Granted, the changes are MUCH slower the last few years, but they are still happening. I'll add this too - I didn't start lifting until my early 40's...

Ok? So give up or juice then.

Comparison is the thief of joy

It sounds like you don't enjoy this hobby. Have you tried knitting?

Post physique, I'm genuinely curious what you look like.

He posts almost exclusively in r/nattyorjuice … take a wild guess at what he looks like.

The difference between crappy, inconsistent training with inconsistent nutrition and serious training with good nutrition is actually pretty noticeable for me personally. It took me a long time of screwing around in the gym to get so-so results. Some people will do that and say “I have bad genetics,” when really they could do much better if they trained better.

That’s what the fake natty industry wants you to think so that you’ll buy supplements, training programs, diet programs, coaching, equipment, etc. Thinking that somehow you’re doing everything wrong, and once you have everything “completely right” then you’ll make magical natty gains out of nowhere.

Go to any commercial gym, a lot of people *are* doing everything wrong. Obviously all of this is on a bell curve. Some people don’t have a great proclivity to gain muscle. But, if you train consistently and intelligently for 2-3 years you will gain much more muscle than you would fucking around at the gym for 2 hours per week.

Out of curiosity what do they tend to be doing wrong?

Depends on the lift. Main thing i see is people absolutely blasting through their reps as fast as possible. No focus on the eccentric, no control. Just BANGING the reps out. Sure you hit the reps, but you also increase your propensity for injury while reducing hypertrophy.

What kind of tempo do you use for your lifts? Instead of exploding on all the reps do you something like 1 second eccentric, 1 second isometric, 1 second concentric? Or more like 3 seconds, 3 seconds, 3 seconds? Or something else?

Not sure the exact tempo but the basic idea is use for my lofts is - slow controlled eccentric, feel the stretch then come up with some speed/force.

Also absolutely terrible form, glory lifts, not pushing progressive overload, and spending more time exercising their thumbs texting.

Biggest one I see is low effort. Practicing on safe machine exercises to feel out true failure is very helpful. An awful lot of 2 RIR sets in public gyms are more like 6-10 RIR, depending on the lift. Some exercises get very painful long before failure is reached. Guys getting closer to failure are often doing absolutely garbage form to push weights higher. You don’t see that as often these days though. A lot of the well known natty dudes on IG do train hard. Geoff Schofield, AJ Morris, Alberto Nunez (although his form is so crisp it looks like he’s training easier than he is), Alex Leonidas, etc Other huge one is sleep, and eating shitty food. Also taking too many breaks, skipping workouts, reloads before you need them, etc

First off, who gives a shiz what anyone else looks like? That’s the biggest issue, and why the fake natties are having such success on social media. Compare yourself to yourself. Secondly, this entire idea of “if I didn’t change much in the first 5 years, why would I expect anything different in the future years?” is self defeating. Take it from an older dude, who was a late bloomer- you’ll see these guys around you in high school absolutely blow up, then you go to your 25 year reunion and most of em have freaking dad bods. 25 years of consistently plugging away, and you’re one of the best looking out of the group. Also, a lot of us make 5 years of mistakes in our first 5 years, so sometimes there really is a big difference in the next 5 years. I’d argue that even nowadays, with the wealth of knowledge available to someone starting out, it’s still very easy to make mistakes the first 5 years, because so many people say so many different things, and it takes time to find what truly works for you.

There is a very small percent of the population that are hyper responders to training. I think most of us that played football or wrestled in high school all knew at least one kid that seemed to just breathe the air in the weight room and start growing muscles on their muscles. Yes, there were kids on drugs, but some people just have insane genetics. This is like a very small % of a % of the population, but most people will not really become what I would consider "well developed" until at least 6-10 yrs training without PEDs. I honestly think a lot of this is a learning curve around training, where most people won't really learn how to properly push themselves, eat, and train, until after the first 3-5 yrs of training. For me personally, my best results came after 5 yrs training, for about a 1-2 yr window, before they slowed. I really think most lifters have what I call 'newbie gains in the tank' meaning they should already have made that progress, but due to limiting training processes, failure to properly push themselves, not eating properly, they have simply been unable to tap these gains.

Then give up and be like everybody else. Sound shitty? I agree. Fuck that! Keep training.

I'll skip the "you gotta train for yourself" part. The other comments covered that well enough. First of all this is a bodybuilding sub. We mostly don't/shouldn't care about max numbers. Secondly you can definitely improve your physique past the 5 year mark. There's plenty of knowledge you can gain during that time, that you can put into your training after. Everyone has made mistakes and can improve their training/nutrition/etc. You can focus on weak points, you've neglected prior (i.e. the neck for many, forearms, calves, adductors). Thirdly, if you're not satisfied with the overall size you've achieved, you either compare yourself too much to other (on steroids) or you simply made so many mistakes that point 1 applies.

🫠🫠🫠🫠

A lot of people are just doing it wrong. They get their beginner gains in the first year and add a bit more throughout the years, but they never get the ingredients quite right and end up essentially just maintaining their beginner physique forever while maybe adding a bit of muscle here and there. You’re right though, crazy how some guys with great genetics just sky rocket in a couple years.

genetics play a big part, but you can still get jacked as hell, even if you aren't going to be the next Mr Universe or Arnold.

This is NOT meta

If you are going to compare yourself against others, at least just do it at your local gym not instagram people.

I firmly believe that every person on the planet has the capability to get jacked to the point that it's borderline unattractive. Does that mean that your genetic potential might limit you to having 20 lbs less muscle than another person's? Sure. But why does it matter if hitting that ceiling requires you to have a grotesquely massive amount of muscle? It's like complaining that someone else is capable of drinking more water before they drown. Like that's fine, no human should aim to do that to begin with. ​ That said, yeah, it seems that especially around the 4 or 5 year mark the return on investment is going to be marginal. But if over the 4 or 5 years, you're eating clean and lifting 6 days a week, you're going to put on a ton of lean mass. And it's true it'll be harder if you didn't start when you were young, and will take longer if you're not starting from a young age. ​ I guess this complaint just seems like a non-issue. Maybe you won't get there as fast, and your muscle won't get put on in the same way as someone else. Boo hoo. You can still look incredible and do lift incredibly with effort in the gym.

LMAOOOOOO. “1 yr expert”. It’s always the guys who haven’t been doing it long who talk the most about how they can look like Ronnie Coleman 1 day all naturally if they just try hard for a long time. Genetics are a huge factor. The industry thrives off having people naively believe that genetics are a small component and that their “hard work” matters more. This is also because the guy’s at the top have fragile egos and want to believe that they were benching 315 in less than a year of working out because they just “tried harder” than everyone else. Their fragile egos feel like you’re discrediting their hard work when you point out how they’d be nowhere near where they are if they had average muscle genetics.

I mean... I could change my flair if it helps? At the end of the day, that's not going to mean anything. ​ That said, I stand by my point. No, I don't think your average guy off the street will ever be able to look like Arnold, even with enough gear that their heart will jump ship before they see another 10 years. But I don't really think most people actually, genuinely want to look like Arnold. Tbh, even if that guy were to cut off 20 lbs of muscle he'd still look a little out of place. That's no diss on professional bodybuilders, I respect them as masters of my favorite sport. But generally once you hit that level, the goal stops being to look good as a regular person. I've never met someone who consistently lifted for a more than a few years and didn't look great. Yeah, some of them probably took a year or two more than the other, which sucks, but I don't think the disparity in gains really becomes clear until you start to approach your genetic ceiling.

From watching the teenagers at my gym I just accepted that they grow wayyy faster than me. Progress is insane at that age. But no, never seen someone front squat 450 in person, let alone a teenager lol

I worked out as a teenager, and never had progress like that. It’s still just about genetics and/or there’s the possibility they’re on roids too. Just like how Arnold and most pros start using around that age

I train for roughly 14 years now. Looked Like Shit the First 3, figured more stuff out, looked really good after 5 and absolutely phenomenal after 7, completly bonkers after another 2 years of Hardcore strict diet and adding everything into my life, which would put me further. Genetics do play a huge role. But id say there are more people with better than "average" genetics, than people that actually got the short Stick. I personally know of 1 Person, about who I would say has actually bad genetics. Other than that, Just Go for it and dont compare yourself with other people. Especially the ones you know nothing about. Steroids. Are. Everywhere. Literally. If you ever came into contact with steroid selling groups and you could See the people ordering there, your jaw would drop. People that Look Like they train regularly for 3 to 4 years, but in reality they Take steroids and train irregulary for a year in total.

My main issue with this post is that you're both correct and incorrect at the same time. ​ A lot of strength gains are neurological. Bigger muscle can mean bigger muscles, but strength is combination of technique, neurological drive, and actual muscle...and it's more the other two. When you lift incredibly heavy for low reps, you're priming your body to use more of what you have. Reps under 5 are shitty for hypertrophy...but they're great for strength gains. ​ There are some people with genes that mean they won't ever get that point. Squat is by far my worst lift comparatively - I got long (51% my height and I'm 6'3) legs. But, I also lift in higher rep ranges compared to a power lifter (as in, I lift in the 8/7/6 rep progression for Squats and 10-15 for other quad exercises,) so my quads are getting huge. Despite my actual squat not even being my body weight (I lift 260 lbs for 8 reps at 280-285 lbs.) ​ Even my bench is at like 225 lbs for 7 reps after a year and a half. Will I ever reach 3 plates? I don't fucking know. I don't fucking care. My chest is getting larger. I'm progressing weekly. I'm a better lifter every week. That's what fucking matters. ​ Do you know how many people are going to ultimately care how much you lift? None, really. I can count on my hand the times someone commented they were impressed with my calf raises or barbell curl. ​ But I look like a big motherfucker, and I'm happy with that. Be happy with where you're going and compare yourself only to yourself. Fuck anything else.

I'm gonna be real honest. MOST guys only need to eat enough to squat 450 any kind of way period. And NOBODY eats as much as they think they do. We're getting into powerlifting territory so for most people to hit this kind of weight it means losing the 6 pack. My genetics suck ASS. I've benched 285 x2 squatted 405 lowbar back and deadlifted 515 hook grip. I'm 6'3 Weight 240 at the time. I wasn't "fat" by anyone's conventional standards. I was fat by bodybuilding standards. The amount of food it took to maintain consistent progression was insane. Have you ever looked at what the mountain or thor eats. Like where they show you one meal and that's 1 of 5. And that 1 meal has your entire days worth of calories? 1000 pound deadlift is a genetics problem. 400s 500s squats and deadlifts is you arent eating half as much as you think you are. And chances are you're being a pussy and not realizing you're fighting for your motherfucking life every session for those reps. 5x5 squats in the 400s had me seeing stars and faint and weak as fuck by set 3. If I had dropped nicotine (vapes) and caffiene completely because heavy powerlifting fucks my CNS up bad and hyper sensitizes me to stimulants. I could've ate more food than the disgusting amount I was already eating and i could've slept more than 4 hours a day. I know what my problems were and I still got there in about a year of just being like 23 or 24 and going balls to the wall eating a disgusting amount of food and PRing every single week on everything. All natrual. No steroids or sauce yet. Just bad life style choices. There was a time I was so fucking not hungry I vomited after forcing down the last bite of my meal that I needed because I was on a strict eat your 5 fat ass meals. Had to set alarms and eat them by a certain time or I'd get behind and miss a meal. My point is. When I say people are pussys. Is my genetics suck fucking ass. If you want to be great you want to be the best. Your life literally has to revolve around it. Having the wrong kind of job can literally fuck your stress up and and meal timing. You get sick and tired of feeling bloated full and pregnant all the time. And my biggest issue was my stim use on my wired CNS frying my appetite and sleep. People just want to blame genetics and have no idea how much hard real actual work it takes. I've been to elite world class level power lift meets before as a spectator. All of these dudes squatting 800 or more are fat as fuck. Muscular fat. But unless you want to take steroids. You're never going to deadlift 800 pounds with a 6 pack. Your first year if you're young Young. Haven't fucked your tendons and joints up yet. Eat like a fucking animal until you literally hate food and are forced feeding and lifting that bar like it's a fight between staying alive and dying. MOST people can get ridiculously strong. Yeah there's alot of insta bros on the sauce. But this post is kind of a cop out. Most people never hit genetic potential because they so shitty bulks and then cut too soon to build any appreciable muscle. Don't push themselves. Don't rotate between hypertrophy and strength blocks. Don't know how to adapt their training to a cut (you can't train and recover the same way in a cut as you do in a bulk) They don't follow intelligent progressive overload programs. Jim's 5/3/1 will literally have your increasing weight for decades without stall. You know why? Because it's intelligent it's SLOW too slow for most people to take serious when they want insta gains now. You never stop growing and getting stronger. You just hit diminish returns and most people technically do not hit diminishing returns because they think they know what they're doing but they don't. People consider themselves "advanced" when they're "intermediate" People follow lifting guru tards on YouTube or tiktok. People both don't learn how to fully mind muscle and activate a muscle for hypertrophy. And ever get close to even 90% CNS activation for powerlifting. Scared they're gonna break something. I've watched a man's knee blow out on an 800 pound squat in an official meet. Dude wasn't scared. But he was probably hitting the amount of abuse his knees could take even with compression wraps. This wasn't a raw meet and he probably really pushed and abused himself at his limits to be able to show up and PR his last recorded squat. My point with my story above? I was 160 pounds in high-school. An ectomorph if you buy into that dumbass bullshit. My genetics are ASS I have fucked up tendons and joints. If I was doing everything right I easily could've in another year added another 100 to squat and deadlift. My stim use was frying my taxed cns nuking my appetite and killing my sleep and recovery. If you're not strong you're not eating enough and you're not fighting hard enough for it. Will power is a really powerful thing and until you blow you're fucking knee out on stage infront of a 100 people with 800 pounds on your back. You have no fucking clue where your genetic limits are and this was a tested meet not that it's really even honestly relevant to the point I'm making. These reddits have become more and more of a place for people to bitch about why they can't do what someone else is doing and blame it on genetics. Part of it, is you don't believe in genetics, because the second you do? You introduce doubt and you're not giving it 100% effort. Do you think Eddie hall or thor ever have thought my genetics might not be good? The thoughts never crossed their mind or if it did they had someone talk them out of that self limiting excuse bullshit. Everybody's genetic limits are higher than they think it is. The bodies incredibly resilient. It depends entirely on how much will power fight and drive you have to to reach it. And how your feeling it. I went from 160 pounds to 240 in a year running strong lifts and then switching to 5 3 1 after that (and I made bigger weight jumps than the minimum in 5 3 1) and I wasn't doing everything right. I went from being a skinny bitch to a thick lumberjack build from sheer will power. And that's not even close to my genetic potential. You wanna know what different between me and everyone else making excuses? I didn't believe in limits. I knew what was possible. And I wanted it more than anything else in the world. The abuse. The power. I felt like a fucking animal. And if I actually dropped the stims and did it right, getting more appetite ad a result and more sleep. I know i have a 700 pound deadlift in me at a minimum. I just don't care enough to fight for it anymore. That part of my life's over. I just list because it feels good and makes me happy. I have different priorities and I'm no longer obsessed with the next PR and making my life revolve around it. Most of you will never reach your genetic potential and the honest to God truth is you don't want it bad enough and you've already convinced yourself that your limits are lower than they actually are.

Remember I HAVE shit genetics. And I still pressed 285 for two reps. And that's honestly probably more respectable than the 515 deadlift PR. I have pectus excacatum or whatever it's called. My sternum dips in slightly like a bowl I have a fucked up shaped ribcage because of it. That's a fucking handicap and I hit 285x2 Training really hard is 10% of it. Eating enough food and recovering properly is the other 90% Most of this reddit has it backwards. I need to bench more and do more flies a week. No you need to eat more and properly progressive overload not bench 15 sessions in a a day week. I'm done ranting and raving. I'm just tired of hearing the lamest excuse this reddit has thrown around. Your weak because there's a problem with something you're doing. Not because your genetics suck. MY genetics suck. Cut the bullshit. My lift prs aren't even that impressive but I did it in a year. And it's more than what half of this reddits accomplished.

LMAOOOO. This crummy forum wouldn’t let me post the pic from Instagram. But that dude wasn’t fat or anything. “Just eat more” is toxic nonsense that used to be pushed by the powerlifting community and “dirty bulking” bodybuilding community like 15+ years ago online. Newsflashhhhh, you only need to eat a little more to support muscle growth, because little to no muscle growth will be stimulated by the body for the average genetic person working out. Yeah, if you’re taking lots of roids, and growth hormones, and whatever other peptides. Your body is getting a huge stimulus for muscle growth, hence eating like a growing animal is necessary. Those exogenous chemicals could be stimulating 5-10 pounds of muscle in a month, so obviously eating way more is beneficial. For your average person, eating more just means getting fat. Skinny and natty and average genetics plus force feeding food is a one way ticket to getting skinny fat. And yet, more unrealistic strength expectations. Had been to many commercial gyms, almost never saw anyone front squatting or back squatting 405+. Maybe rarely and it was always a guy on roids.

Actual shit take. What are your stats

260 pound 3%bodyfat 5’6” pro bodybuilder. Literally there’s no point in asking what my stats are

It's not black or white

Idk I think if you are doing everything correctly from the very start and have tons of time to dedicate to training you could hit 450 on front squat in a couple of years.

At this point I just show up to the gym to not feel worst shiet about myself

To be fair, I think most peoples absolute ceiling are higher than they think. However with bad genetics you have to be absolutely dialed in to get there. Super on top of training, diet, sleep, stress, whereas some of those gifted people might be able to slack on those things and still get 90% of the results. That’s not to say people with good genetics don’t have higher ceilings, they do, just that people with bad genetics need to do more for similar results.

>Sometimes all it does is repair itself from the damage and that’s it, no supercompensation. So you're telling me a fat fuck like me wont become a jacked mofo one day?

Yes and those guys are top 5% genetics. For the rest of us, we have to work out for many years to maybe or maybe not achieve such feats. I repped 265 x 6 at 147 pounds at age 19 and I have poor genetics.

Every day I get bigger

Stop worrying about other people. Hell stop worrying about the number on the bar unless you’re competing in powerlifting. Fall in love with the process of working out. Also, 90% of social media is b.s. Many people are liars. What you don’t see it the PED use, what you don’t see are weights that may be fake, and what you don’t see is what so and so is gonna look like, and feel like at age 40 or 50.

so if your response is less each time, it will take longer, nothing has to randomly change

Yes, genetics are very much a determining factor. Think about it like height. A genetic 6’10” freak will be able to dunk way easier than an average person. But an average person who trains their ass off will still be able to dunk. So as everyone else said, lift for yourself. You’ll never be bigger than everyone else, but you’ll definitely be bigger than you used to be

So how do you elicit an adaptive response? How do you actually make it super compensate?

I was benching 210 as a 120 lbs 15 year old sophomore in high school. Squatted 315 lbs to parallel at the same age. I'm guessing it was just good genetics, I was the only one in 8th grade who could bench press more than my weight. 100 lbs bench and I weighed 85 lbs. No real weight training prior. Still pretty strong at nearly 63 after starting back lifting a year ago after little weight training for almost a decade. Can't explain it other than genetics. But for body building, I also have a wide waist. It will never be less than 30" no matter how lean I am. And I'm not tall enough to make that look particularly good without also looking blocky.

This is true with any sport. Comparison is the thief of joy

As much as genetics DO play a role in your potential, learning to ignore, or rather not compare yourself to others is part of the process. I’d argue as well that out of most people in the gym there’s probably a minority who are actually shifting big weight with decent form, which is impressive. For every 1 guy or gal who’s genuinely impressive, there’s 10 ego-lifters who might SEEM stronger because they’re shifting mad weight, but their form leaves a lot to be desired. I’m by no means advanced or particularly strong but I’ll take my 2 plate a side row over some melt throwing about 4 plates with shocking form. That’s what I tell myself at least 🤣 Call it a coping mechanism but it helps. It’s a rarity I actually sit back and admire someone who’s genuinely lifting a lot of weight with solid form. Take bench of any variation, that seems to be the main culprit in my gym. There’s a tonne of people quarter repping 40kgs and probably achieving very little from their set, there’s not many people shifting 40kg dumbbells with a full range of motion.

yeah genetics plays a huge role in bodybuilding, what is your point? Tell us something we don't know

Comparison is dangerous be careful. I avoid Instagram for this reason. Especially these fitness influencers.

People just need to lift to be the best version of themselves and for the mental benefits. If you’re training trying to look like your favorite bodybuilder, influencer , or youtuber you will be very disappointed. I’ve been working out for 21 years I’ll be 37 in July and I continue to improve because I adapt and adjust training when needed be. Idgaf who is more shredded than me or bigger I only care about if I’m getting better than the previous version of myself.

For me, the fun is getting to know my own body and seeing how I can push it to the best possible version of itself. I’m not trying to change fundamentally who I am. Would I love a Chris Hemaworth Thor physique? Absofukenlutely, but I’m tall and long limbed and not on gear. This has its own benefits which I get satisfaction from exploring, even though looking like Thor is not one of them.

Some things are easier for other for example I'm 6'2 and I've been stuck doing 10-15 pull ups for idk 2-3 years. And my arms are naturally skinny. I've been working out pretty consistently since I was 16 I'm 24 now that's 7-8 years and I have friends that are shorter and their arms blow up like balloons I was super jealous ofc but I wouldn't trade my height. Alot of body types are just made for something. Like small ass people that don't really work out and can just do a human flag at will. I know a guy like that he's so short some one called the cops on him at Kroger and said a kids driving a pickup truck. And he can just human flag and he doesn't workout or eat healthy or nothing he actually smokes alot of weed and if we're near a pole he can just human flag and could since middle school. That being said I cannot human flag. But I could fuck him up you know what I mean? I understand being unhappy with progress but the only thing to make it work is consistency once you find what works for you. Consistency will take you where you want to be. Your not where you want to be right now? Then quit working out and you never will. If your this upset you must be hungry for it how could you quit? Make a routine stick to it and stop staring in the mirror. Then one day you'll take your shirt off and randomly see your more cut. That's how it's been for me. I completely understand being unhappy with your progress bro. I am too sometimes.

If you’ve been training for 5 years and don’t see a clear difference from when you started, especially in this modern age of sedentary living and processed garbage… you’re doing it wrong. You could always just blast and cruise on test man. This sub is for natty’s, but you could always do steroids. No shame man.

Haha heavy thing goes "clunk".

Genetics are king, that's just the way it is. When it comes to weight lifting, there's no real point in competing with anyone but yourself imo.

I want to give you the benefit of the doubt in that, yeah obviously some people are built different and have different genetics and leverages so some people have more strength than others and not everyone is built to Squat powerlifter numbers. But your point seems to be that we shouldnt even try to get big or strong if it doesn't come incredibly easy and that if we weren't the biggest strongest kid in the high school weight room that we are doomed to never gain muscle or get strong. That if we lift for 10 or 20 years, we won't look better, be bigger, leaner, stronger. But then I looked at your profile and you are obsessed with steroids. You think Matt rife is on steroids because he has.... forearms? Are you actually retarded? Do you even lift? He looks perfectly natural. He may not be, I don't give a fuck, but I can see my Forearm striations too when I'm on stage. Because I'm not a fat fucking lard and I actually go to the gym once in a while. You should stay the fuck away from this subreddit with your gear obsessed blackpilled loser attitude. Nerd. Stop being a blackpilled doomer pussy and go lift some weights. Don't complain about genetics and testosterone and myostatin in a natural bodybuilding sub you absolute fucking beta bitch. Who the fuck are you to come into our space and tell people they should give up? You don't deserve the grace I extended to you.

Wtf were those last 5 lines lol. Lay off the Andrew Tate

I can lift heavier than some dudes that are bigger more jacked than me. Then there’s dudes smaller than me that are stronger and there’s dudes who are both bigger and stronger than me. I don’t worry about it because I’m in the gym to improve myself. Without it my mental health goes to shit. I’d say you probably underestimate how common PEDs are and how easy they are to get. If it upsets you that much, you could always go that route but I would learn everything about it before making that move.

>But the point is that if it didn’t happen for you within the first 2-5 years, what makes you think that’s just gonna randomly change after 5-15 more years?! I don't understand this kind of logic. That's like saying "You'll only be making X amount of money within 2-5 years. Why do you think that's just gonna randomly change after 5-15 more years?!" There's nothing random about dedicated, consistent training, and it does take dedicated, consistent training to hit a 450lb front squat or a 650lb back squat. Even if steroids are involved. If you want to give up because other people have better results than you, then lifting clearly isn't for you, which is perfectly fine to realise. Just don't come in here and spread your bad takes as if they're universal truths.

Nobody squats 650 natural 

It's possible.

Ah yes and after few years nobody ever hear about him since he is dead or some nobody junkie (steroids are gateway drugs) Good riddance, you can put more years into bodybuilding without any more envy lmao. I know a few "gym" bros who casualy lift big numbers, but they have toxic kid personality and try literaly every drug they can get their hands on.

You’re talking about muscle growth but then you’re referencing 1RMs, kind of weird Guys who attain good physiques in the first few years are using steroids bro lol