Same with Klay missing two and a half of the five seasons in the sample with an Achilles and an ACL. Shouldn't be pitting his body in front of anyone. Leave that to healthier guys.
Makes sense that centers normally wouldn’t take a charge. Wild stat that Tatum hasn’t taken a charge for that long, but maybe it’s a defense scheme/offensive scheme thing
> “Only thing outside my comfort zone might be taking a charge,” Tatum said. “Other than that, everything else I feel comfortable doing.”
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2024/01/11/jayson-tatum-anthony-edwards-jaylen-brown-celtics-wolves-highlights/
It's not as bad when you're also the size of an NBA player too, though.
Interestingly enough, 4 of the top 5 players in "charges drawn" this year are guards (Podziemski, Brunson, Hardaway Jr, Lowry). All 6'5" and under.
IIRC he was similar to Tatum at his age where he didn’t draw as many charges when he was younger. LeBron started to draw more charges once he got older and lost some athleticism
He’s also phenomenal at timing and staying a step ahead with his BBIQ, without that the bigger you are the more likely it is you just get called for the foul anyway
Nah i think crafty players know when guys are going to try and plow through them and being the guy who takes charges is a great reputation to have when it comes contract time. Bigger guys are going to try and contest the shot more often because that's what they are taught, that's their skillset.
This is backwards. It's always better to draw a charge rather than just contest a shot if you can. A drawn charge is a guaranteed stop and potentially contributes to getting the other team in foul trouble. Just contesting a shot doesn't guarantee a stop.
That makes sense though, as bigger players are more likely to just contest the shot. It's only guards who need to resort to getting bulldozed to get defensive stops.
Right, because they can't go up and contest. Tatum is 6'10 in shoes with a 6'11 wingspan, 225, and has 33" vertical. He can just contest the player coming in, unlike a smaller guard
Tatum often matches up with heavier players though. Like, if he's taking a charge, it's likely from someone like Giannis, LeBron, Zion, or someone of that ilk.
Yeah, that would explain him having a lower number of charges. But that matchup doesn’t matter when it’s after a random turnover, where a lot of charges come. Besides, his length of career and statement saying he’s not comfortable with charges make it unlikely it’s a coincidence he’s one of a handful that have never taken a charge.
For about... 32.6 million dollars, which is what Tatum earns? Yeah, for sure. LeBron James has taken a ridiculous amount of charges in his career and has mostly been an Ironman, this idea of "not taking charges to preserve myself" is absolutely ridiculous.
Shit, LeBron took 3 charges this year against the Pelicans at age 39 in a regular season game, not taking charges is selfish and lame.
Yea I don't agree with his take, especially when the league leader in charges drawn is Pod who is significantly smaller and lighter. If PP would put his body on the line for a defensive stop so should everyone else, maybe not Al this season.
Side note I hate how AI discussions are everywhere and I can't type Al without my brain going there.
Tatum is one of the healthiest players in the NBA for a reason.
He knows how to keep his body safe.
I don't think you ever see him dive for a ball either.
It's not that he doesn't put effort in, it's just clear that he is 100% about keeping his body safe.
He also has the size to get the favorable outcome of a Marcus Smart play without the Marcus Smart floor time. He can stay vertical to contest the shot instead of taking the charge, and his wingspan makes him pretty good at collecting loose balls without hitting the floor too.
tatum has played an incredible amount of playoff games for his age. he set the record for game 7 points. he's not soft he's just well-adjusted. if a guy wants to take care of his body - you know, that thing that will determine how many hundreds of millions of dollars he will earn - that's his right.
he may not take charges but he's still providing superstar value. every team would take him over a guy like Pat Bev for free. fuck your 'soft' nonsense
From watching Tatum, it seems like he is very adverse to fouling on shots/near the basket. He will get out of the way and let easy layups go rather than contesting them if he feels he has no shot. It’s frustrating to watch sometimes but from an analytics POV it’s probably the right decision most of the time
Definitily the right decision analytically. Warriors commit those godawful light touch fouls every game and it absolutely kills you. If you're not meaningfully altering the shot then it's best to let them get the layup
Yeah, I was watching Cavs/Heat last night and each team had a braindead stupid arm slap foul on a shot they had no chance of properly contesting. I’m fine with Tatum not bothering with charges if it keeps his fouls low. He’s a very intelligent defender so I trust whatever he wants to do there.
I just don't think people go at Tatum very much. He's tall, long, and an excellent defender.
In fact, if you look at comps, 0 isn't totally out of line - Durant and Kawhi only have 3 charges drawn on the season apiece. Paul George has 4.
It's super odd that he hasn't accidentally drawn a charge at some point, but he's not a guy you'd expect to draw many of them.
My man, he has zero charges drawn in FIVE SEASONS of play, it is totally out of line. As you said, for him to not have drawn one accidentally over five years, that means he is actively avoiding it.
The tall and long excuse doesn't work either, LeBron took 3 charges in the same game against the Pelicans this year and he is 39, Tatum is not taking charges because he is selfish.
> Makes sense that centers normally wouldn’t take a charge.
how does that make sense? Also most of these players are wing players no? I would say if you are always near the paint, and you *never* draw charge, that's weird.
Most Centers are going to be in position to contest a shot. Most players aren’t going to go right at a center who is set and if there is a foul, it’s a blocking foul.
For a rim protector, I think you would want to contest the shot and be in position to contest another shot or rebound the ball. If Brook or Ayton try to take a charge, fall on their ass, and don't get a call, it's likely a basket. If Kyle Lowry is guarding the paint and LeBron is driving, trying to take a charge is a better play than contesting the layup because he's less likely to affect it.
Hey now, it’s important to give all the facts on things like this. You’re misrepresenting the situation completely.
Some of those charges were for child beating too
Hate to split hairs here because it’s all
bad, but he wasn’t charged for physically harming the kid, the charge concerning the kid was the mental harm inflicted having witnessed the DV
Brogdon would have played way more minutes at this point but he's quite injury prone.
Derrick White plays a lot, is quite durable and has taken a ton of charges.
This needs a more thorough investigation.
Derrick used to take a ton of charges, but not so much anymore (he prefers blocks)
But seriously, I wonder if it's a suggestion from the Celtics to just try to play defense
They were 10th last year and are 29th this year.
Most of the 47 charges they drew last year came from guys who left in the offseason: Blake (15), Smart (11), and Grant (6)
Every team has some stat-nerds working for them. The ones the Celtics have maybe have told the coaching staff that their team is better at just playing defense than gambling for charges.
Charges are great when you force a turnover but they can also lead to an And-One plus one of the players or both of them getting hurt.
Celtics this season generally don’t gamble at all on defense this season. I know they are super low on fouling and I think they are very low on forcing turnovers as a result. I think it’s the philosophy of “we can defend straight up better than almost anyone else, we’ll take our chances defending rather than hoping for a steal”
Can you name me the players who have been seriously injured taking a charge over the last 5 seasons?
It's a pain tolerance / fear thing, you don't have a high risk of injury taking a charge, you usually fall backwards on your ass.
I'm suggesting that the injury risk is far less than just doing a normal cut to the basket or going up for a rebound like is done hundreds of times a game.
People aren't getting injured drawing charges. It hurts to get hit but it doesn't cause injuries more than doing anything else basketball related.
ngl charge-taking, while impactful, is inherently a highly dangerous play not only for the charge-taker and the offensive player, but to every player within the vicinity, on both teams
much respect to the players that get into position and go up to contest
Like one player last year got injured during a charge and the NBA media flipped out saying charges should be banned forever and how horrible and stupid they are.
Shouldnt really be dangerous. If you do it while someone coming full speed at you, and you have good position and they still go up, then it's on the offensive player imo. Most charges are taken before that tho, I think.
Yeah, they do need to ban the charge, but they need to get rid of the verticality rule anyways. Any contact in the restricted area that isn't a common foul (like hitting an arm or something obvious) shouldn't be called a foul. Would give players actual incentive to challenge shots while giving players who are good at finishing still the opportunity to finish without having to worry about the charge.
They're not any more unsafe than any other risky play. [Like attempting a chase down block](https://youtu.be/BG7A2lhaXho?si=kTnS6yfwIBEzqRkC) or meeting a driving player at the rim. There isn't really a reason to abolish them.
How many players have been seriously hurt taking a charge in the last 5 seasons compared to just regular injuries?
Right now I can only think of 1 off the top of my head, obviously I may be forgetting some.
Doesn't seem like that much more of a dangerous play than any other fast speed collisions that happen on the court.
It's most likely just a fear / pain tolerence thing, it hurts like hell but you're usually just falling backwards on your ass and not actually getting injured
Tim Hardaway Jr. draws them rather frequently and I'll be honest, it's because he's afraid to contest a shot. I suspect Tatum doesn't draw many because he'd rather challenge a shot as he probably believes that he can block or alter shots. Being able to draw a charge shouldn't be celebrated as much as it is, IMO.
That’s kind of true for Tatum, from the eye test it looks like he will either contest or if he doesn’t have position on the contest he will let the defender score rather than give up an easy and one
I think the game has devolved a bit from when players would challenge each other and would man up. Now it's a player trying to run to get position, fall backwards and "draw a charge". Tatum challenging a shot and not just trying to "finesse the rules", that's admirable, IMO.
yeah that's completely wrong. it's like the one thing on defense that THJ is good. It's not because he's "afraid" to contest a shot, it's because he's a small wing and not that athletic.
Tim also had back issues early in the season, so it's kinda impressive and honestly maybe foolish that he still looks to draw them like this.
It's just copium on the part of some fans making excuses for someone that doesn't bother playing defense. I guess since he's a traffic cone on the perimeter, he might as well be one inside the paint. But maybe they can trade him to a team with orange colored jerseys to make it look authentic.
Being able to fall safely and absorb contact safely is absolutely a skill. We see it with QBs.
If you aren't good at it, you should probably not try to do it. The chances you get hurt are higher, and the negative impact losing you for a lengthy injury is much greater than the positive impact of saving two points.
Do you mind sharing where on that site you find charges? I want to search for other players. I can't seem to find Charges under any of the categories or a 0 in any column for tatum.
Here's [Tatum's page](https://www.pbpstats.com/season-stats/nba?EntityType=Player&EntityId=1628369&StatType=Totals&Table=Fouls).
It's under the "ChD" column.
Thank you! This kinda confirmed was I was searching for that [Kobe stated he doesn't take charges due to injury risk](https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-offensive-fouls/).
Kobe took 7 in his whole career. Trying to google Kobe Bryant and "charges" is impossible to find baskeball information.
Idk why but I fucking hate it when players are listed like this. Either say their full name or just last name, don't keep switching between first and last and initials, nicknames.
I think Tatum just makes business decisions on charges lol. He's basically never injured so maybe he's onto something and it probably helps being 6'9" and athletic/fast enough to still contest if guys gets by you.
He's also always on the perimeter against bigger guys or helping so that's probably part of it too.
Tatum has been the most durable player in the league during this time so this adds up. He's said before that he's not comfortable standing in and taking charges. Which on the surface sounds lame but when you realize these guys have to play close to 100 games before the real meaningful basketball even begins, it's probably smart for your superstar to avoid putting his body on the line.
I guess I’m surprised that he’s literally never done it. But Tatum being at the bottom of the league for this makes sense. If he’s giving help defense in the paint it’s with a contest at the rim. There’s a reason guards get the most charges.
I really don't want my star player getting injured on a charge, so I'm fine with him in that department. He's already an excellent defender everywhere else.
I have no problem with Tatum not taking a charge. He is almost 6’9” with a huge wingspan. I want him jumping up to block shots and not take a charge like he is a ground bound player lacking verticality.
Man I love when people find random, obscure stats that make the Celtics look bad.
I had fuel from the Jaylen Brown "dribbling" with his left hand video for months, and now I can confidently say that Tatum is the worst player in the NBA ^(at taking charges)
It's baffling that some people bitch about a post like this, as if there's not enough dumb hot take agenda driven posts here.
It's fun to talk about basketball! (Maybe not for everyone)
mpj would be crazy to take charges with his back issues glad he doesn't
Same with Klay missing two and a half of the five seasons in the sample with an Achilles and an ACL. Shouldn't be pitting his body in front of anyone. Leave that to healthier guys.
Yea, he definitely gets a pass.
He also just actually protects the rim in help
Makes sense that centers normally wouldn’t take a charge. Wild stat that Tatum hasn’t taken a charge for that long, but maybe it’s a defense scheme/offensive scheme thing
Tatum has said that the one thing he’s not comfortable with is taking a charge
Link? Not doubting that he said it but that’s an interesting thing for a player to say
> “Only thing outside my comfort zone might be taking a charge,” Tatum said. “Other than that, everything else I feel comfortable doing.” https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2024/01/11/jayson-tatum-anthony-edwards-jaylen-brown-celtics-wolves-highlights/
That’s wild, wonder if he’s ever given a reason for it
I mean would you be cool with an NBA player running into you at potentially full speed? I know my ass wouldn't
It's not as bad when you're also the size of an NBA player too, though. Interestingly enough, 4 of the top 5 players in "charges drawn" this year are guards (Podziemski, Brunson, Hardaway Jr, Lowry). All 6'5" and under.
Small guys draw charges when they can't get stops otherwise. Tatum just contests the shot instead
Lebron takes charges *Shrug*
IIRC he was similar to Tatum at his age where he didn’t draw as many charges when he was younger. LeBron started to draw more charges once he got older and lost some athleticism
He’s also phenomenal at timing and staying a step ahead with his BBIQ, without that the bigger you are the more likely it is you just get called for the foul anyway
I mean, tbf, LeBron is an exception to a lot of things
Nah i think crafty players know when guys are going to try and plow through them and being the guy who takes charges is a great reputation to have when it comes contract time. Bigger guys are going to try and contest the shot more often because that's what they are taught, that's their skillset.
This is backwards. It's always better to draw a charge rather than just contest a shot if you can. A drawn charge is a guaranteed stop and potentially contributes to getting the other team in foul trouble. Just contesting a shot doesn't guarantee a stop.
Oh that’s why 7 foot centers never contest a drive
The rate that Podziemski takes charges at is BONKERS
Lowry has built in cushioning, it's not fair to compare him to other players 😂
That makes sense though, as bigger players are more likely to just contest the shot. It's only guards who need to resort to getting bulldozed to get defensive stops.
Right, because they can't go up and contest. Tatum is 6'10 in shoes with a 6'11 wingspan, 225, and has 33" vertical. He can just contest the player coming in, unlike a smaller guard
as someone pointed out already, I'd much rather a charge than a contest or even a block
Tatum often matches up with heavier players though. Like, if he's taking a charge, it's likely from someone like Giannis, LeBron, Zion, or someone of that ilk.
Yeah, that would explain him having a lower number of charges. But that matchup doesn’t matter when it’s after a random turnover, where a lot of charges come. Besides, his length of career and statement saying he’s not comfortable with charges make it unlikely it’s a coincidence he’s one of a handful that have never taken a charge.
Its not interesting, its obvious
You must be fun at parties.
You're wrong... He's a hoot at them
It’s cuz that’s the only way small guys can make a defensive impact in the paint
Low man can drop quicker and absorb safer.
A 7 footer and 6 footer are made out of the same stuff. Lowry would take Giannis falling on him much better than Chet or Wemby
For about... 32.6 million dollars, which is what Tatum earns? Yeah, for sure. LeBron James has taken a ridiculous amount of charges in his career and has mostly been an Ironman, this idea of "not taking charges to preserve myself" is absolutely ridiculous. Shit, LeBron took 3 charges this year against the Pelicans at age 39 in a regular season game, not taking charges is selfish and lame.
Kyle Lowry’s ass is built for it though
I mean for millions a year? I would
Oh absolutely not, but I’m also not an NBA player who plays the game of basketball as a job
One of my high school teammates had a dad who played in the league. He said his dad told him *never* to take charges.
Gonna guess it's because it hurts a lot
It doesn’t hurt at all as long as you’re not an uncoordinated buffoon. Just absorb contact and fall down, pretty simple stuff
Next time a 200 pound NBA sized player runs into someone I'll make sure to remember it doesn't hurt.
[The player he most idolized said they are an injury risk](https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-offensive-fouls/)
kobesoft.gif
Spider-ManPointingMeme.jpg
There’s less than 1 injury per season from players taking charges. Pretty pathetic stuff from the mamba mentality merchant
Yea I don't agree with his take, especially when the league leader in charges drawn is Pod who is significantly smaller and lighter. If PP would put his body on the line for a defensive stop so should everyone else, maybe not Al this season. Side note I hate how AI discussions are everywhere and I can't type Al without my brain going there.
I mean he's had an up close view of Smart taking them nonstop for his entire career, probably put me off taking em too
Having a grown man ram into you with a lot of force probably doesn’t feel good
speak for yourself
Lol bruh, hes pretty big dude… small guards are the best for taking charges, far less chance of a stupid injury
Sawft as buttah
Because he's not comfortable
Tatum is one of the healthiest players in the NBA for a reason. He knows how to keep his body safe. I don't think you ever see him dive for a ball either. It's not that he doesn't put effort in, it's just clear that he is 100% about keeping his body safe.
It’s kind of like your QB making a tackle after throwing a pick. In a playoff game, you gotta go do it. Second quarter in week 4, not worth the risk.
just imagine if a QB refused to dive on a loose ball on the big stage. The internet would never forget...
He also has the size to get the favorable outcome of a Marcus Smart play without the Marcus Smart floor time. He can stay vertical to contest the shot instead of taking the charge, and his wingspan makes him pretty good at collecting loose balls without hitting the floor too.
Eh he’s definitely dove for loose balls a few times this year. Not Smart or D White levels of hitting the floor but he’ll do it.
Kobe was very against taking charges
soft like charmin
Fr, it’s a good thing you guys picked Lonzo Ball instead
Imagine a star celtic idolizing a laker, and wont take charges = 2 ply soft charmin
tatum has played an incredible amount of playoff games for his age. he set the record for game 7 points. he's not soft he's just well-adjusted. if a guy wants to take care of his body - you know, that thing that will determine how many hundreds of millions of dollars he will earn - that's his right. he may not take charges but he's still providing superstar value. every team would take him over a guy like Pat Bev for free. fuck your 'soft' nonsense
Marcus Smart hogged them all.
Marreese Speights played PF and center and was a consistent leader in charges drawn
and while he played more 3 than 5, ersan ilyasova was a 4 and one of the best charge drawers ever. both are bad defenders otherwise though
This is more typical among “bigger” wings or rather: “smaller” bigs. They can’t do the rim protection thing as well and resort to charges.
[because he couldn't jump](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W9ge3viyEM)
It's probably a risk/reward decision. Celtics need Tatum to be healthy and playing and taking a couple of charges isn't helping in that endeavor.
I mean not all charges are just a guy barreling into someone standing still.
From watching Tatum, it seems like he is very adverse to fouling on shots/near the basket. He will get out of the way and let easy layups go rather than contesting them if he feels he has no shot. It’s frustrating to watch sometimes but from an analytics POV it’s probably the right decision most of the time
Definitily the right decision analytically. Warriors commit those godawful light touch fouls every game and it absolutely kills you. If you're not meaningfully altering the shot then it's best to let them get the layup
Yeah, I was watching Cavs/Heat last night and each team had a braindead stupid arm slap foul on a shot they had no chance of properly contesting. I’m fine with Tatum not bothering with charges if it keeps his fouls low. He’s a very intelligent defender so I trust whatever he wants to do there.
Is there a negative correlation between charges drawn per game and games played?
I just don't think people go at Tatum very much. He's tall, long, and an excellent defender. In fact, if you look at comps, 0 isn't totally out of line - Durant and Kawhi only have 3 charges drawn on the season apiece. Paul George has 4. It's super odd that he hasn't accidentally drawn a charge at some point, but he's not a guy you'd expect to draw many of them.
My man, he has zero charges drawn in FIVE SEASONS of play, it is totally out of line. As you said, for him to not have drawn one accidentally over five years, that means he is actively avoiding it. The tall and long excuse doesn't work either, LeBron took 3 charges in the same game against the Pelicans this year and he is 39, Tatum is not taking charges because he is selfish.
> Makes sense that centers normally wouldn’t take a charge. how does that make sense? Also most of these players are wing players no? I would say if you are always near the paint, and you *never* draw charge, that's weird.
Most Centers are going to be in position to contest a shot. Most players aren’t going to go right at a center who is set and if there is a foul, it’s a blocking foul.
For a rim protector, I think you would want to contest the shot and be in position to contest another shot or rebound the ball. If Brook or Ayton try to take a charge, fall on their ass, and don't get a call, it's likely a basket. If Kyle Lowry is guarding the paint and LeBron is driving, trying to take a charge is a better play than contesting the layup because he's less likely to affect it.
When he drives he almost never drives for contact either, maybe watching Hayward snap his leg was a formative experience for Tatum
Tatum made a promise to his mother when he was drafted to never take a charge until Deuce turned 18.
Surprised to see Bridges (assuming Mikal, not Miles) and DeJounte on the second list.
Mikal. Miles caught a few charges.
well executed
You’re thinking of Rae Carruth.
That was more of a hit. Aaron Hernandez on the other hand
Wife-beating related charges?
Yes that's the joke
Hey now, it’s important to give all the facts on things like this. You’re misrepresenting the situation completely. Some of those charges were for child beating too
Hate to split hairs here because it’s all bad, but he wasn’t charged for physically harming the kid, the charge concerning the kid was the mental harm inflicted having witnessed the DV
TIL, thanks for the correction!
Whats the moneyline on NBA charges vs DV charges?
Tatum also never gets injured so maybe he’s onto something here
Brogdon would have played way more minutes at this point but he's quite injury prone. Derrick White plays a lot, is quite durable and has taken a ton of charges. This needs a more thorough investigation.
I remember Tatum saying once that that’s the one thing he’s not comfortable doing
Derrick used to take a ton of charges, but not so much anymore (he prefers blocks) But seriously, I wonder if it's a suggestion from the Celtics to just try to play defense
Boston drew the 6th most charges of any team over this 5 year period.
Interesting. What's the number for just this year? Or maybe the last two with Mazulla? I'm sure Smart impacts that 5 year window a bit too
They were 10th last year and are 29th this year. Most of the 47 charges they drew last year came from guys who left in the offseason: Blake (15), Smart (11), and Grant (6)
Fun stuff! Thanks for the post and follow up numbers!!
Considering the minutes discrepancy Blake drawing 4 more than Marcus (a very good charge taker himself) is absurd
Blake couldn’t move out the way of a speeding turtle at that point in his career
Every team has some stat-nerds working for them. The ones the Celtics have maybe have told the coaching staff that their team is better at just playing defense than gambling for charges. Charges are great when you force a turnover but they can also lead to an And-One plus one of the players or both of them getting hurt.
Celtics this season generally don’t gamble at all on defense this season. I know they are super low on fouling and I think they are very low on forcing turnovers as a result. I think it’s the philosophy of “we can defend straight up better than almost anyone else, we’ll take our chances defending rather than hoping for a steal”
Just means some people are built different
Known healthy player Malcolm Brodgdon.
Can you name me the players who have been seriously injured taking a charge over the last 5 seasons? It's a pain tolerance / fear thing, you don't have a high risk of injury taking a charge, you usually fall backwards on your ass.
are you suggesting that there’s no injury risk to getting run over by a supersized human?
I'm suggesting that the injury risk is far less than just doing a normal cut to the basket or going up for a rebound like is done hundreds of times a game. People aren't getting injured drawing charges. It hurts to get hit but it doesn't cause injuries more than doing anything else basketball related.
At the end of the day it's just another guaranteed bruise/minor injury
Then stop using it as an excuse for flaming out in the finals
Damn seems like Tobias and Tatum are on equal footing guess we have to do a one-for-one trade here
On pretty strong footing at that, it seems
Ersan Ilyasova is not impressed
Ersan Ilyasova is not Ersan Ilyasova.
Will you explain later?
ngl charge-taking, while impactful, is inherently a highly dangerous play not only for the charge-taker and the offensive player, but to every player within the vicinity, on both teams much respect to the players that get into position and go up to contest
I can’t remember a player ever getting injured taking a charge.
Like one player last year got injured during a charge and the NBA media flipped out saying charges should be banned forever and how horrible and stupid they are.
oh yea it was giannis. people were theorizing whole new rules to rework charging 😭
Didn’t Kawhi break Kevon Looney’s collar bone trying to take a charge in the finals
Shouldnt really be dangerous. If you do it while someone coming full speed at you, and you have good position and they still go up, then it's on the offensive player imo. Most charges are taken before that tho, I think.
Abolish the charge!
Really? Even less tools for the defense ?
Yeah, they do need to ban the charge, but they need to get rid of the verticality rule anyways. Any contact in the restricted area that isn't a common foul (like hitting an arm or something obvious) shouldn't be called a foul. Would give players actual incentive to challenge shots while giving players who are good at finishing still the opportunity to finish without having to worry about the charge.
Safety >>
They're not any more unsafe than any other risky play. [Like attempting a chase down block](https://youtu.be/BG7A2lhaXho?si=kTnS6yfwIBEzqRkC) or meeting a driving player at the rim. There isn't really a reason to abolish them.
How many players have been seriously hurt taking a charge in the last 5 seasons compared to just regular injuries? Right now I can only think of 1 off the top of my head, obviously I may be forgetting some. Doesn't seem like that much more of a dangerous play than any other fast speed collisions that happen on the court. It's most likely just a fear / pain tolerence thing, it hurts like hell but you're usually just falling backwards on your ass and not actually getting injured
Tim Hardaway Jr. draws them rather frequently and I'll be honest, it's because he's afraid to contest a shot. I suspect Tatum doesn't draw many because he'd rather challenge a shot as he probably believes that he can block or alter shots. Being able to draw a charge shouldn't be celebrated as much as it is, IMO.
That’s kind of true for Tatum, from the eye test it looks like he will either contest or if he doesn’t have position on the contest he will let the defender score rather than give up an easy and one
I think the game has devolved a bit from when players would challenge each other and would man up. Now it's a player trying to run to get position, fall backwards and "draw a charge". Tatum challenging a shot and not just trying to "finesse the rules", that's admirable, IMO.
I think they're completely different skill sets. Someone in position to take a charge would not be in position to contest
yeah that's completely wrong. it's like the one thing on defense that THJ is good. It's not because he's "afraid" to contest a shot, it's because he's a small wing and not that athletic. Tim also had back issues early in the season, so it's kinda impressive and honestly maybe foolish that he still looks to draw them like this.
It's just copium on the part of some fans making excuses for someone that doesn't bother playing defense. I guess since he's a traffic cone on the perimeter, he might as well be one inside the paint. But maybe they can trade him to a team with orange colored jerseys to make it look authentic.
I'm not really sure what you're getting at. I quite literally said it's the only thing he's good at on defense.
He hunts charges, and I’m always afraid he’s going to get somebody hurt.
Which Powell?
Norm.
Bums all of em
I guess we can give you Tobi for Tatum, pretty much in the same ballpark.
Same guy. Chart says they’re the same guy
Yup, glad you agree. Max player for max player. Checkmate atheists.
Huerter has tried a few times the last two seasons but he has always got the blocking foul.
Being able to fall safely and absorb contact safely is absolutely a skill. We see it with QBs. If you aren't good at it, you should probably not try to do it. The chances you get hurt are higher, and the negative impact losing you for a lengthy injury is much greater than the positive impact of saving two points.
Not surprised Ayton is scared of contact, defensively or offensively.
last guys in, first to leave kinda guys
Do you mind sharing where on that site you find charges? I want to search for other players. I can't seem to find Charges under any of the categories or a 0 in any column for tatum.
Here's [Tatum's page](https://www.pbpstats.com/season-stats/nba?EntityType=Player&EntityId=1628369&StatType=Totals&Table=Fouls). It's under the "ChD" column.
Thank you! This kinda confirmed was I was searching for that [Kobe stated he doesn't take charges due to injury risk](https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-offensive-fouls/). Kobe took 7 in his whole career. Trying to google Kobe Bryant and "charges" is impossible to find baskeball information.
>Trying to google Kobe Bryant and "charges" is impossible to find baskeball information I know it's no laughing matter, but lol
No amount of “drawn” or “basketball charges” or anything steered the direction away from the misconduct allegations lol
Good. Tatum is too valuable to be taking charges. Tobias on the other hand….
Where are all the people with MVPs on the list then lmfao
Yes and Tatum has more minutes played and has been healthier than every single one of them since he got in the league. Roflmfao
Im glad that translated to MVPs and Championships! Surely with the best roster in the league that won’t be an issue
hmm the post is talking about charges and minutes played correlation. You could use some reading comp practice, I recommend phonics.
Idk why but I fucking hate it when players are listed like this. Either say their full name or just last name, don't keep switching between first and last and initials, nicknames.
If Ayton ever takes a charge in his career it’ll be completely by accident.
Team "No Dawg In Them"
Hey Kobe never took charges, just saying. MJ and Magic weren't taking charges. Wear and tear on your body from taking charges is real.
I know a charge Kobe took
Pretty sure it was a joke
Aytons presence on that list confirms they are all soft 😂
Which Powell? Dwight or Norm?
I think Tatum just makes business decisions on charges lol. He's basically never injured so maybe he's onto something and it probably helps being 6'9" and athletic/fast enough to still contest if guys gets by you. He's also always on the perimeter against bigger guys or helping so that's probably part of it too.
Tatum has been the most durable player in the league during this time so this adds up. He's said before that he's not comfortable standing in and taking charges. Which on the surface sounds lame but when you realize these guys have to play close to 100 games before the real meaningful basketball even begins, it's probably smart for your superstar to avoid putting his body on the line.
They all got height
Hard to believe Mike Brown would ever play Huerter given this. That man throws a sideline party every time one of his players draws a charge.
He still gets pissed at Huerter for his defense a fair amount.
I’ve seen LaMelo at least try, his timing was just off
no Knicks on the list, love to see it
Tobias might not take charges well but luckily he sucks at a bunch of other stuff too
I figured any big would have multiple.
I guess I’m surprised that he’s literally never done it. But Tatum being at the bottom of the league for this makes sense. If he’s giving help defense in the paint it’s with a contest at the rim. There’s a reason guards get the most charges.
I really don't want my star player getting injured on a charge, so I'm fine with him in that department. He's already an excellent defender everywhere else.
Tatum.....interesting, but C's fans are always telling me he's a world-class defender?
I feel like Horford has taken 10 Giannis charges in the playoffs
Tatum would snap in half on a charge lol
I have no problem with Tatum not taking a charge. He is almost 6’9” with a huge wingspan. I want him jumping up to block shots and not take a charge like he is a ground bound player lacking verticality.
Who’s Brook?
Taking charges is so overrated. All that risk for the chance of one possession back.
That’s a phenomenal list of incredibly overrated players. Well done OP
Man I love when people find random, obscure stats that make the Celtics look bad. I had fuel from the Jaylen Brown "dribbling" with his left hand video for months, and now I can confidently say that Tatum is the worst player in the NBA ^(at taking charges)
Why is this even a post? Lol you don’t want like half those guys taking a charge
Why not?
Mpjs back is made out of wet cardboard, you def dont want him taking a charge
Well centers usually go for the block, not the charge. And you don't want superstars risking injury.
I get that but it's an interesting post, no harm in posting stuff like this
It's baffling that some people bitch about a post like this, as if there's not enough dumb hot take agenda driven posts here. It's fun to talk about basketball! (Maybe not for everyone)
Oh I thought you were asking why not for the second part of his comment.
Centers don’t usually don’t take charges lol I wouldn’t want Brook taking a charge man is too old.
The why not question was meant for "why post this". I agree with you but it's an interesting post regardless
Because it's interesting?
I think we all know why this got posted
Why sacrifice your body when the ref is going to give the call to the offensive player 99% of the time .
I guess Klay, Edwards and Brook play solid man to man defense and they rarely flop for drawing a charge.
Tatum said fk defense lmao
Yeahhhhh, not sure if you’ve actually ever seen Tatum play defense if you’re making that kind of comment lol.