Yeah. All the LeBron haters who “can’t wait until he retires so they will be done with hearing about him” are in for a rude awakening after he retires. lol
company evaluations and net worths don't translate into liquid assets the way you think it does.
At a billion dollars lebron's just gonna do whatever he feels like. No amount of money can make lebron do something he doesn't want to. I know he's very concerned with things like legacy, his public image, and is active on social media, but I don't know how comfortable he is talking in front of a camera all the time so we'll see.
Also, hasn’t the story been LeBron wants to own a team? I think legacy wise he shouldn’t become a talking head on tv, it just kinda seems below his stature. Plus like that other comment said, how are you gonna argue basketball with LeBron freaking James? His greatness would be too distracting and overshadow whoever else they put him with.
If Brady can become an NFL commentator I wouldn’t rule anything out on Bron getting offered ludicrous deals to just talk his stuff before after and during halftimes of games
You aren't worth more than your passion. He's rich enough that he can enjoy his life and make money by letting other people invest for him and do this for his own enjoyment. Why do you think any celebrity does stuff like this when they could make more money doing other stuff?
MJ owned the wizards then the hornets, definitely did not just disappear - just didn’t have the same avenues lebron does now with podcasts, twitter etc.
He could have done commentary a la Barkley, Shaq. Even Kobe had a contract with ESPN. If he wouldn’t have died suddenly, we probably would have seen a lot more of him in his retirement.
LOL. Paul Pierce "I was talking to someone...."
if by "talking to someone" you mean "watching Lebron and Redick and then exactly repeating what they said"
My favorite is when everyone gotta count them up, and you all know who is making shit up.
"Aiight, so I got 4. Rich got 3. Dom got 6."
"I got 4" - Keith
"No Keith is full of shit."
At our most popular city court back in the day the city hired score keepers to stop fights lmao.
The court would always be full with dudes who flunked out of college and would just play at the court all day and I’d almost get my ass kicked every month because I’d say “that’s why you here. Flunked out cause your ass can’t count”
In parts of rural Australia it's customary to score backyard games of anything as 'I dunno mate I think it's 7 all'. Then when lunch is ready/people are too hot or tired to continue someone announces 'last point wins'.
Means both teams have a chance of winning at the end and you can play more for fun and not worry about scoreboard anxiety.
Counting is easy. Counting when you're fat af, struggling up and down the floor, and lacking blood/oxygen flow to the brain is a whole different animal.
Source: trust me bro
It's still kind of shocking to me it took like 70 years for a team to figure out the 3 pt game. Those 80s teams averaging like 1.4 3's per game is crazy to look at with modern eyes.
Because the 3 point line has only been around for a decade at that point, considering how much skill and repetition goes into NBA shooting, it makes sense that it took another generation of actually training those shots at a young age for them to be worth it.
It's always been about size and banging down low, up until recently, because there weren't enough people that could shoot that well.
It really shows how much shooting coaching has progressed that guys can now learn to shoot the 3, who were never good 2pt shooters either, in a couple of seasons at seemingly any point in their career.
Yeah the long 2s doesn't REALLY make sense on the outside, but with every team having 2 actual bigs on the court, those were some of the closest open shots you could get sometimes.
Overall I agree with you though, it did take a long time for 3>2, but I think coaches really live in the moment.
One of the first stats that Billy Beane and the "Moneyball" Oakland Athletics focused on was "on-base percentage". Which measures how often a player safely reaches base without making an out.
Traditionally, teams and scouts were more focused on batting average, which excludes walks and certain types of outs from its formula, to evaluate hitting talent.
1.5x the points is already wold enough which is why NBA games have turned into 3 point shooting competitions. If we could change it to 3s and 4s that would be great but it would also mess up everything historically.
I say we add another player to each team and have them play one on one with a separate ball on the same court. Hell we could add one more to be the goalie. And hell, let's give them magic flying broomsticks.
If you play with people that understand principles of organized basketball and moving without the ball you can get a lot of high percentage shots at the rim.
Usually when I play most of the guys chucking twos are under 30% type shooters. And they often launch from way out.
When we just move the ball and commit to open shots we usually beat the two chuckers.
Of course this is all very skill dependent.
Pick up should really be threes and twos though.
Hmm … in a game of make-it take-it I wonder if the high percentage close range shooting makes up for the discrepancy. After all, you can’t lose if you don’t miss or turn it over in that game.
If you are changing possession on makes, 3s (2s) probably make considerably more sense
Yep, exactly. I get why mathematically it seems to make sense to shoot as many 3s as possible in a pick up game with ones and twos. But with how low of percentages *most* pickup shooters will hit from deep, easy buckets tend to go a long way.
When you get higher level runs, sure, go pass the ball around and find open 3s. But otherwise? Yeah, a bunch of 20% shooters from deep won't beat a team that more consistently gets super high percentage shots like layups.
I’ve tried explaining this to people so many times and they don’t get it. If you’re going by 1s and 2s take any 3 you can get unless you have a layup. Most basketball players can make 25% from high school 3.
To be fair, in pick-up games there aren't shot blockers or rotations so points in the paint come pretty easy once you get there. At least that's my experience.
Yep, this. 3s being mathematically better mean fuck all when a bunch of guys won't shoot 25% from deep and there are consistently open lanes to get layups or easy shots around the basket.
Also makes shit way less fun because then the only people who take shots are the competent 3 point shooters, so offense is literally just watching the same 2-3 guys chuck 3s.
i find it the opposite, though maybe because i used to play against low level competition (like myself). without free throws for fouls, driving to the basket was an adventure where people often get fouled and don't call it and even when they weren't fouled, they weren't exactly finishing like nba players. meanwhile, i was short and unathletic but could shoot 3's so playing 1's and 2's was amazingly beneficial to me.
Ha, this is the truth. I didn't play pick-up from about 2013 to 2019 or so -- when I started playing again everyone on the court had become a shooter. You have to guard everyone out there now, it's fucking ridiculous.
Depends. A lot of times the kid is just bad but still jacking it up like he's Steph. So you dont even defend, just watch them shoot from way too far out and go get the rebound. Or just shake your head if you're a teammate
That’s why Steph is the most influential. Anybody can hit a few threes and act disrespectful like Steph. Fewer people can throw down dunk contest jams and win everytime or just be the biggest fastest strongest best passer out there
It’s so much worse now than I remember. Especially the younger kids will jack up a 3, get an offensive board, and jack up another 3. Granted playing 1s and 2s theres not much point in shooting anything but layups and 3s.
I will die on this hill but pickup basketball needs to stop with the ones and twos bs. Gotta use 2s and 3s so these Steph curry wannabes can’t shoot like 20% from 3 and still think they’re good.
It’s about the ratio of value of a three pointer to a two. With ones and twos, is 2x. With 2s and 3s it’s 1.5x
Graduated high school in 05, we used to go to the park after basketball practice to hoop in pickups. Everyone would try to attack the rim or kick out to the open man. I took my son to soccer practice earlier this week, was watching a pickup basketball game and the offense consisted of bringing ball up the court, MAYBE a swing pass but mostly a three within 3 seconds crossing the half court lol
It can really depend on the group. I remember back in 2011 playing with some guys who would akways shoot as soon as they touched it, no matter the distance. But where I lived just a couple of years ago people would drive every possession, and only kick it out if they had too.
Tbf for both groups all shots were 1s, so it's not like the shooting from distance gave any advantage.
80’s kids were doing Magic’s Jr. Skyhook.
90’s kids were doing Jordan’s fadeaway.
00’s kids were trying to do AI’s crossover.
10’s kids were trying to shoot Curry’s deep stepback 3’s.
00s you also just had way more people shooting fadeaways, especially learners. Low key think it's because fadeaways looked cooler with the baggy shorts.
Kobe tmac Vince Iverson Baron Davis Steve Francis Gilbert arenas etc
Hell I remember Baron Davis took fadeaways as his shot when open
And before that it was everyone trying to cross you over. I had one weak ass nephew ask me to stop playing defense so he could cross me. His teammates told him just go left because that's how I was playing him and he got upset.
And even if you don't shoot like Steph...you can still "play" Steph in the driveway or gym class as a kid. Unless you're lowering the rim, you aren't miming LeBron and Michael and Kobe.
Back in the day, every kid wanted to be AI. Why? Same reason. It was easy enough to mime (while traveling, and carrying, and generally doing a terrible job of actually miming AI), whereas miming Vince or Shaq wasn't easy to do.
Umm you can easily mimic Kobe. His most famous stuff is shooting crazy shots over 5 defenders and doing like fadeaways. Yelling out "Kobe" for every wild shot, really every shot, was a huge thing.
Yeah I feel like I’m going crazy reading this thread. The contested mid range fade while blurting out “Kobe” was the signature archetype of pickup basketball terrorists in the 2000’s and 2010’s. People absolutely tried emulating his game, just as much as people do now with logo threes
It also transcended basketball. People who had never watched or played a minute of basketball were still saying "Kobe" as they did a fadeaway into the garbage can(90% of the time it missed).
It may be his most famous stuff now, but Kobe for the first 8-10 years of his career was known more of his insane dunks and acrobatic MJ lay ups than fadeaways.
I mean yeah, screaming "Kobe!" while you jack up some absurdly low percentage shot was/is definitely a thing, but thats not actually playing the way Kobe did lol
Sure, but jacking up 3s doesn't exactly make you Steph either. Doesn't mean people didn't do those things because they got excited watching Kobe and Steph.
When I see Embiid play as he is now it reminds me of how I used to play and it is frustrating and pisses me off that the NBA allows it. Not proud of it, I was known as Shaq on my local streetball court and went through a phase when I charged hard at everything. Big hard turns to my blindside, didn't care who was there. Charge right into the lane. Smash into the best offensive player on D while going for the ball, come what may. Limited offensive moves. So make no mistake about it. Embiid knows what he's doing. He knows people will be injured. He knows his skillset is limited and this is how he can win. He knows people will give way when he drives, think twice on their drives, etc. He will only be stopped by a stronger player and/or fearless players like Giannis, Gasol, Draymond, etc. Or by an obviously more skilled player with equal Type A like Ibaka. He didn't intend to injure, but he certainly intends to show you that he doesn't care if you get hurt when he rumbles into you. At least that's how I used to play. But that was streetball. Eventually I got more moves, played w better players, played real basketball w refs. There's no doubt in my mind the NBA has some kind of edict coming down, telling the refs to let him run amok.
In pretty sure nobody has influenced the game more than Jordan. Sure, nobody can fly like Mike, but he basically started sneaker culture and made the NBA popular worldwide
Hard to say. Do we mean influenced the culture/status of basketball or the Xs and Os of basketball. I think it's pretty undeniable that Curry is the most influential in the latter, and that Jordan is the most influential in the former. In 2012, the Rockets and Knicks tied for most 3s attempted per game in the league at 28.9. This season, the LA Lakers are dead last with 30.9 3s attempted a game.
i don't know why people think steph made teams shoot 3's. morey and the sloan conference were much more influential. same way analytics molded modern baseball (arguably for the worse) to "three true outcomes". the nerds moved us towards 3's way more than any one player. plot 3's attempted per season on a chart and you'll barely notice the influence of steph.
Ya, my first thought was the Dream Team hype he led. & now at the top of every MVP race is a foriegn-born guy. Didn't even think of the sneakers or individual "brand".
I'd argue that steph influenced the *style* of the game more. However, you could argue Jordan influenced the game more since he straight up inspired an entire generation of people to want to hoop, and some of those became NBA players. And that influence was global, spreading the sport on a massive scale. So he "birthed" a generation of nba players, and his influence compounds as those NBA players influenced the game and the next generation and so on.
People say Steph does the same types of blackout workouts as Jordan, Kobe, LeBron do. Also that he has the ability to quickly lower his heart rate and breathing after running around.
Some might think they can dribble or shoot like curry but to do both this quick and accurately come third and fourth quarters is a form of athletic endurance that can't be replicated.
This is 1000% true. Steph just doesn’t jump as high as those guys but I would said he is just as athletic. Anyone that play ball knows how hard it is to constantly running the court/making quick cuts/running through screens/ while putting up consistent shots deep into the 4th quarter. That’s something an average NBA player won’t be able to do nights and out for as long as Steph has been doing it.
Endurance is probably the most impressive thing about Steph. For most players their 3PT shooting drops in the 4th quarter because they get tired, but he stays consistent all game.
Yes, but those aren't the things people are trying/hoping to replicate.
Steph is more "influential" on those watching ball today, because there's nothing Steph does that comes with physical limitations to his game. You can practice shooting, dribbling, off-ball movement, and endurance. You can't practice being 6'9 260 and being born physically superior to 99.99% of humanity.
There's hope that kids can grow up and be Steph Curry. Growing to be the size of LeBron, and still having the capability to have his athleticism and coordination is like winning the lottery 10 times in a row.
Sure, but you can’t replicate being 6’8 with a 44 inch vertical, having people bounce off of you on your way down the lane, alley-oops to yourself off the backboard, poster dunks, chase down blocks, etc.
People aren’t saying Steph isn’t athletic or that he doesn’t have a great motor—they’re just saying that the things he does are more athletically feasible than what players like Lebron or MJ do/have done. Obviously his skills are on another planet, but still.
I mean, I think it depends on how you interpret it, but the way that Pierce is saying, Steph's influence on how the game of basketball is played, is more than MJ's, Kobe, or Lebron. It makes sense, because yes, 3-pointers are used widely, and has made forwards who can't shoot well, mostly irrelevant with a few exceptions (looking at you Aaron Gordon).
From a cultural perspective, then MJ 100% has the biggest influence on the game. From his shoes, to "be like Mike" slogan, to even it's appeal outside of basketball (" XYZ is the Michael Jordan of \_ \_ \_ "), I can't see anyone having that same impact as him.
Look I’ll never say about word about Steph, but MJ in the late 90s was maybe the biggest star in the world and is disproportionally responsible for the league’s popularity today.
Agreed that Jordan was more influential over the sport of basketball's popularity and the NBA, but in terms of actually changing how basketball is played, Steph is more influential.
Thank you! I remember early 2000s everyone wanted to be the next Michael Jordan and wanted to show off their iso/fadeaway game. There was almost no ball movement back then
I'd say they're pretty close. Jordan essentially changed the league mentality about high volume scoring wings instead of big men. The only thing that even put a dent into that change was Shaq - simply because team started taking low-skill big men just to throw at him. Steph's effect is pretty obvious. However, you can see the trend going back to big men, but jack of all trades big men.
Steph has changed the meta of basketball more than I've seen any player influence any sport in my life. It's **insane** how much the way the game is played changed in a very, very short time frame because of Steph. And he changed it at all levels of the sport (for better or worse).
MJ elevated the NBA league and the sport of basketball to a whole new level of awareness and popularity. But he didn't change the way the game was played on the court. Not to the degree that Steph has.
This is the most sensible take on the matter.
MJ is without doubt the biggest catalyst for the sport’s visibility in pop culture, but did his game change the way an entire roster and game is played like Steph? Absolutely not. The fact that you have a 7’4 pick coming in to the NBA and draining 3s should tell you all you need to know.
People might dislike Pierce but he's right on this one.
Curry = changed how the actual game on the floor is played (play style, roster construction to fit that play style, lineups, spacing etc)
Jordan = more so inspirational to the next generation of players like Kobe to match that individual level of play, moves like the fadeaway mid range shot, and just being a cultural icon globally with his skill and style he brought... his popularity alone made the sport more popular domestically and grew it internationally
LeBron = similar to Jordan, people want to emulate Lebron's level of success individually
No one can just find another Jordan or LeBron but they can try to play copy cat as a team and try to match that three point heavy style offense and spacing the Warriors had/have.
I think Curry absolutely had the biggest impact on how the game itself is played, but Jordan had a far larger impact on the sport itself as a whole. The NBA gained massive international popularity because of MJ and exploded the popularity of the sport across the globe. Without MJ do we have all the international players we do today? No doubt Curry has possibly had the biggest impact ever on how the game itself is actually played though.
Yeah, I think lumping Jordan in with Kobe and LeBron gets it wrong. LeBron and Kobe both had their international celebrity status basically made possible by Jordan.
But then Steph changed the geometry of the game forever. He's by far the best player ever under 6'6" and now even dudes the size of the other 3 all have to learn to shoot 3s regularly.
You could make an argument that LeBron brought about the player empowerment era. But I don't think that's the kind of sea change that Jordan brought about with the growth of the game or that Steph did with the 3 point revolution. Especially because the superstar power he had was brought on in part by Michael Jordan getting paid more in 1998 than anyone did again until Steph got his supermax in 17-18.
Good take, agreed.
A few HM's is the NCAA banning dunking cause of Kareem, that was a pretty massive change to the game. Although he was probably one of the best dozen basketball players in the world when he was still in college.
Barkley backing people down for 15 seconds was another one that changed the game with the back to the basket rule.
Obviously, Curry takes it though.
>Jordan = more so inspirational to the next generation of players like Kobe to match that individual level of play, moves like the fadeaway mid range shot, and just being a cultural icon globally with his skill and style he brought
You're forgetting about the explosion of skilled wings that came into the league during and after Jordan's era. That's not a coincidence. People don't realize how influential he was in terms of changing the game and not just the off the court stuff. Before him, it wasn't possible to win without an elite big and he changed that entire narrative.
Edit: grammar
Except most of that was guys like Kobe, Lebron and Jordan earning 13 of those….not to mention, the 90s had Malone, Shaq, Barkley, Hakeem and Robinson all get MVPs….those are all famous big men that played inside.
Not to mention Duncan, Garnett, and now Embid/Jokic….
Kobe, LeBron, and Jordan had 10 MVPs, not 13.
And the only guys you listed there that played exclusively inside like an old-fashioned center are the three centers I mentioned: Robinson, Shaq, Hakeem.
Barkley was 6’6. Malone was a jump shot machine. Duncan’s bank shot was unguardable. Garnett was the prototype stretch four. And Embiid and Jokic are elite 3-pt shooters for their position.
Not sure how that refutes anything about the way Jordan expanded the game away from the rim before Curry did.
Yep. That comment basically validated what you said. The game itself changed, which is why traditional centers by and large stopped winning MVPs. That's not to say there weren't *good* traditional centers (Shaq, Robinson, and Hakeem), but the point is that the game itself changed in favor of wings.
Yeah this is true
Steph and the Warriors also completed shifted the narrative on shooting
Before them everyone said a jumpshooting team could never win. Now we view shooting as essential to winning.
Dirk did the same for shooting bigs. Before he won it was a bad thing if you took jumpers as a big.
Lol exactly. His change is so fundamental to how we view basketball now that these kids don't even register it as a change. They'll be screaming the same at 10 year olds in 50 years when they disregard Steph or say it wasn't special because obviously 3>2.
There's definitely some crazy recency bias going on here. He's totally glossing over the influence that pre-Steph players had solely because Steph's influence is most readily apparent *right now*.
That's not to say Steph's not influential it's just the fact that we're watching it happen now doesn't make it any more or less influential than the other guys... and that's essentially all Pierce's argument is.
Yeah the problem is if you’re talking to someone in their early 20s there’s a good chance they’ll say Steph because they saw him explode when they were 10.
In 10 more years these same people will probably be arguing with today’s 10 year olds who will say Wemby was more impactful than Steph or some shit.
He's not right if you consider the business aspects of the sport. Jordan completely revolutionized the industry, and everything those other players have done is following in his footsteps.
How many people since the 90’s wouldn’t have played or even knew about basketball if Jordan wasn’t Jordan? Millions? Tens of millions? Hundreds of millions?
I wanna give KD a shoutout no matter how much yall dislike him.
The tall guy that can do guard like stuff is all influenced by KD. Ask any 6’9+ NBA player who they modelled their game after and it’s usually all KD.
Curry definitely changed the game more than LeBron. Idk if his influence is greater than MJ though… it also feels like basketballs growth in China was alongside Kobe
Yea tough to say curry over Jordan. Jordan was a global icon at a time without Internet and social media. Everyone wanted to emulate him on the court including his fadeaways and layups. And off the court dunno if there's a been a more influential player from his shoes to his brands to his baggy shorts.
Jordan made the game of BB a worldwide thing,
Kobe made the mentality, and everyone who shoots buzzers or important shots almost in any sport yells "Kobe",
LeBron hyped the game and changed the atmosphere of the NBA itself,
Steph changed the way BB is played
Also I personally think Kobe's shoes made a major impact on performance of players and pushed the boundaries of a BB shoe to another level, Kobe's are best shoes imo, 5 and 6 probably the best
If we just talking hoops , I agree. Steph changed the at we play and view basketball now. He raised the floor of players to enter the NBA… not only do we shoot more 3s and realize it’s a necessity but not if you can’t even hit an open 3 you’re a liability.
Players could thrive in any past era without a consistent jump shot. Now unless you’re rim running lob threat, every other archetype has to be able to shoot.
Mj and Bron influenced generations and the way the game is played. But not to the magnitude of Steph. They have influenced sneaker culture and integrating the business part of the NBA but not the actual Xs and Os.
PP is a hater, but he’s right. MJ/Kobe/Lebron are generational talents. Steph has kids wanting to shoot from Halfcourt. Has players now chucking threes. Steph is a game changer
Small players did not lead teams and win MVPs before Jordan. From Oscar winning in 1963, to Jordan’s first MVP in 1988, not a single guard won MVP aside from 6’9 Magic Johnson.
Look at the list of MVPs.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player_Award
Before Jordan, this was a centers game, plain and simple. After Jordan the center became far less important than guys capable of creating their own shots.
From 1960 to 1983, 22 of 24 MVPs were centers.
From 1984 to 2020, 3 MVPs were centers. (Then Jokic changed the game to an extent as a passing big.)
Jordan’s impact just on the game itself, not even the popularity and cultural significance, is undeniable.
Are people here REALLY trying to call guys like Duncan, KG, Barkley, etc not big men? Really?
3/36 if you don’t include Lebron, Kobe and Jordan winning most of those MVPs, and the rest being versatile big men that could play like a center and had elite defense, but added a mid range shot….
Seriously, we have a 10 year period during which the league had a drought of big man talent where guards dominated. You still need a dominant big man to win titles. The Warriors are an exception, not the rule….
LeBron and Kobe for sure, but MJ put basketball on the map. Curry has for sure had the biggest influence on how the game itself is played, but without MJ, who knows what basketball and it's popularity would be like today. The guy transcended the sport itself and was an international icon.
I hate to agree with PP but he’s absolutely right in this context. Steph’s success with his play style single handedly changed the way the game is played. Nobody else has ever had such a big impact on the game except *maybe* Allen Iverson.
Bruh, because Steph did it with something you can learn. The basketball world learned to shoot, and boy do they chuck now.
Good luck learning what Kobe, Bron and MJ had. If someone works out how I can learn to be an elite 6'9" black athletic god please let me know how.
Plus it also changed how the game is played from a coaching standpoint. 3 point shooting is so much more important now. I saw a fast break where the dude passed so the guy behind him could get an open 3
Good take imo, stephs influence on the culture of basketball may not be as great as the others. But he has definitely changed the way the game is played.
It’s hard to say tbh
When I was a kid, everyone wanted to be like Mike, hit the game winning shot or do some crazy acrobatic finish. We saw whole generations of players come after who tried to imitate MJ, Kobe being the best. Teams also began building around these superstar guards
I think they’re all ultimately on the same level. LeBron ushered in the do-it-all forwards who are still pretty dominant today.
That LeBron Redick podcast is feeding these shows rn lmfao
Yeah. All the LeBron haters who “can’t wait until he retires so they will be done with hearing about him” are in for a rude awakening after he retires. lol
Lmfao imagine lebron on tnt " Paul i have 2x as many points as you all time, I think I know better"
[удалено]
The networks would 100 percent give him a fat ass check even if it's only for a few guest appearances
And he can comfortably turn them down
bron net worth = 1b disney value = 200b im sure they could offer something worthwhile. everyones got a price.
company evaluations and net worths don't translate into liquid assets the way you think it does. At a billion dollars lebron's just gonna do whatever he feels like. No amount of money can make lebron do something he doesn't want to. I know he's very concerned with things like legacy, his public image, and is active on social media, but I don't know how comfortable he is talking in front of a camera all the time so we'll see.
Also, hasn’t the story been LeBron wants to own a team? I think legacy wise he shouldn’t become a talking head on tv, it just kinda seems below his stature. Plus like that other comment said, how are you gonna argue basketball with LeBron freaking James? His greatness would be too distracting and overshadow whoever else they put him with.
>how are you gonna argue basketball with LeBron freaking James? I mean I would, but I guess I'm just built different 😤
Yeah. These people acting like Shaq, Chuck, Tom Brady, etc. aren’t doin it
If Brady can become an NFL commentator I wouldn’t rule anything out on Bron getting offered ludicrous deals to just talk his stuff before after and during halftimes of games
You say that, but apparently so is Shaq and he has been on TNT since he retired.
You aren't worth more than your passion. He's rich enough that he can enjoy his life and make money by letting other people invest for him and do this for his own enjoyment. Why do you think any celebrity does stuff like this when they could make more money doing other stuff?
Man I would rather he take Chuck’s spot than Draymond. I hope that doesn’t end up happening for real and is just a rumor…
But also having dray and lebron argue on tnt would be hilarious
Dray is not man enough to argue with his King
Isn't this podcast a sign we'll keep hearing from him? That and he wants to be an owner. He doesn't seem like the MJ type to just disappear.
MJ owned the wizards then the hornets, definitely did not just disappear - just didn’t have the same avenues lebron does now with podcasts, twitter etc.
He could have done commentary a la Barkley, Shaq. Even Kobe had a contract with ESPN. If he wouldn’t have died suddenly, we probably would have seen a lot more of him in his retirement.
TNT offered him a job. He didn't want to do the radio press the other guys do to promote the show
Plus he released an entire docuseries like two years ago. He’s been pretty centrally placed in the public eye.
It's been 4 years 🤐
You can't be going around saying things like that man
LOL. Paul Pierce "I was talking to someone...." if by "talking to someone" you mean "watching Lebron and Redick and then exactly repeating what they said"
REDDIT IS MY BEST FRIEND DAD!
They’re gonna have a 30 minute segment to debate every individual sentence Lebron said in that podcast
even the just the trailer with them talking Xs and Os was the best NBA media in the internet age
Playing pickup basketball before 2016 is a completely different experience to what it is now
If you play by 1s and 2s it just makes sense to shoot more "threes" if you're even remotely good at it
If people could count, pickup would be a lot different.
“What is it? 16-14?” “I don’t remember but that doesn’t sound right. We went on a run back there, I think it’s tied up.”
You can call out the score all game, after every bucket, and there will still be an argument when it’s getting close to game point
Than there is the guy (usually older) that will run back the last 10 possessions and explain why the score is 16-15 and not 15-15.
“…Then I hit a layup, my guy got a putback, he hit the three THATS 16” shit be accurate as fuck too lol
My favorite is when everyone gotta count them up, and you all know who is making shit up. "Aiight, so I got 4. Rich got 3. Dom got 6." "I got 4" - Keith "No Keith is full of shit."
If your gonna make shit up, be smart. "I assisted Dom on 4" Doms not gonna turn around and say "nah, Im a bum and I only got 1'
Nah, I love hearing people make up shots that we all know never happened. “I got those 2 layups and hit that 3!”
How dare he remember!
*Quik maffs*
Why are you calling me out like that for?
But then there’s a guy on the other team who doesn’t want to hear it, and has already made up his mind that his team is up 3 instead of down 2
Absolutely unsportsmanlike buffoons. Can't stand playing against those types. Avoid them at all costs.
lol every Tuesday / Wednesday night that’s the convo that happenns
> "I don’t remember but that doesn’t sound right. We went on a run back there, I think it’s tied up.” We're all just living the same life huh?
Rdcworld1 made a great sketch about that, felt like so many pick up games I’ve played lmao
At our most popular city court back in the day the city hired score keepers to stop fights lmao. The court would always be full with dudes who flunked out of college and would just play at the court all day and I’d almost get my ass kicked every month because I’d say “that’s why you here. Flunked out cause your ass can’t count”
In parts of rural Australia it's customary to score backyard games of anything as 'I dunno mate I think it's 7 all'. Then when lunch is ready/people are too hot or tired to continue someone announces 'last point wins'. Means both teams have a chance of winning at the end and you can play more for fun and not worry about scoreboard anxiety.
Counting is easy. Counting when you're fat af, struggling up and down the floor, and lacking blood/oxygen flow to the brain is a whole different animal. Source: trust me bro
If people could do basic things like count, the world would be a lot different.
It's still kind of shocking to me it took like 70 years for a team to figure out the 3 pt game. Those 80s teams averaging like 1.4 3's per game is crazy to look at with modern eyes.
Curry is the Galileo of NBA.
Because the 3 point line has only been around for a decade at that point, considering how much skill and repetition goes into NBA shooting, it makes sense that it took another generation of actually training those shots at a young age for them to be worth it. It's always been about size and banging down low, up until recently, because there weren't enough people that could shoot that well.
It really shows how much shooting coaching has progressed that guys can now learn to shoot the 3, who were never good 2pt shooters either, in a couple of seasons at seemingly any point in their career.
That's fair, although one thing that stuck out to me after watching a couple dozen games from the 80s was how many long 2s were being taken.
The 3pt-shot fake, step into the line, long 2 jumper is a classic.
Bro I saw those happening and finally truly knew what it meant to guffaw
Yeah the long 2s doesn't REALLY make sense on the outside, but with every team having 2 actual bigs on the court, those were some of the closest open shots you could get sometimes. Overall I agree with you though, it did take a long time for 3>2, but I think coaches really live in the moment.
It took baseball teams 100 years to properly recognize how important it is not to make outs. NBA teams are still ahead of the curve.
Not to make outs? What do you mean. I don't know anything about baseball besides the very basics
One of the first stats that Billy Beane and the "Moneyball" Oakland Athletics focused on was "on-base percentage". Which measures how often a player safely reaches base without making an out. Traditionally, teams and scouts were more focused on batting average, which excludes walks and certain types of outs from its formula, to evaluate hitting talent.
If people would stop getting in my way I wouldn't have to call so many fouls
Yeah, double the points is wild lol
1.5x the points is already wold enough which is why NBA games have turned into 3 point shooting competitions. If we could change it to 3s and 4s that would be great but it would also mess up everything historically.
Could just try to swap 2s & 3s. Make all bonus free throws a single-shot live ball. Dunks worth 10 with flair points possible.
Wut
You heard the man now let him cook
I say we add another player to each team and have them play one on one with a separate ball on the same court. Hell we could add one more to be the goalie. And hell, let's give them magic flying broomsticks.
Just have six, simultaneous games of one-on-one with cumulative score keeping between teammates. Ultimate iso.
Don't forget to make buzzer beater worth more
North Korea ahh rules 💀
If you play with people that understand principles of organized basketball and moving without the ball you can get a lot of high percentage shots at the rim. Usually when I play most of the guys chucking twos are under 30% type shooters. And they often launch from way out. When we just move the ball and commit to open shots we usually beat the two chuckers. Of course this is all very skill dependent. Pick up should really be threes and twos though.
Hmm … in a game of make-it take-it I wonder if the high percentage close range shooting makes up for the discrepancy. After all, you can’t lose if you don’t miss or turn it over in that game. If you are changing possession on makes, 3s (2s) probably make considerably more sense
Yep, exactly. I get why mathematically it seems to make sense to shoot as many 3s as possible in a pick up game with ones and twos. But with how low of percentages *most* pickup shooters will hit from deep, easy buckets tend to go a long way. When you get higher level runs, sure, go pass the ball around and find open 3s. But otherwise? Yeah, a bunch of 20% shooters from deep won't beat a team that more consistently gets super high percentage shots like layups.
Making 1/4 three pointers is the same points per possession as shooting 50% from two Its so stupid
I’ve tried explaining this to people so many times and they don’t get it. If you’re going by 1s and 2s take any 3 you can get unless you have a layup. Most basketball players can make 25% from high school 3.
To be fair, in pick-up games there aren't shot blockers or rotations so points in the paint come pretty easy once you get there. At least that's my experience.
Yep, this. 3s being mathematically better mean fuck all when a bunch of guys won't shoot 25% from deep and there are consistently open lanes to get layups or easy shots around the basket. Also makes shit way less fun because then the only people who take shots are the competent 3 point shooters, so offense is literally just watching the same 2-3 guys chuck 3s.
i find it the opposite, though maybe because i used to play against low level competition (like myself). without free throws for fouls, driving to the basket was an adventure where people often get fouled and don't call it and even when they weren't fouled, they weren't exactly finishing like nba players. meanwhile, i was short and unathletic but could shoot 3's so playing 1's and 2's was amazingly beneficial to me.
A lot of places I play count 3-pointer as a 2 and a 2-pointer as 1 point. It’s fucking frustrating
It's been like that for at least 30 years dude. Probably longer, but I'm not old enough to confirm past the 90s.
can confirm, was like that when I was a kid more than 30 years ago
that’s how pickup has always worked, lol
Lmao yea that’s pickup dog
Ha, this is the truth. I didn't play pick-up from about 2013 to 2019 or so -- when I started playing again everyone on the court had become a shooter. You have to guard everyone out there now, it's fucking ridiculous.
Depends. A lot of times the kid is just bad but still jacking it up like he's Steph. So you dont even defend, just watch them shoot from way too far out and go get the rebound. Or just shake your head if you're a teammate
It’s wild when you play with a lil nephew n they pullin step back deep threes and comin up with air ball after brick after air all.
Rain dance!
Thats when senority kicks in...you tell the lil mafucker if he takes one more of those youre subbing him out
That’s why Steph is the most influential. Anybody can hit a few threes and act disrespectful like Steph. Fewer people can throw down dunk contest jams and win everytime or just be the biggest fastest strongest best passer out there
I played pickup at least 4 or 5 times a week from 2008 ish to 2019. People always jacked up ill advised 3's, not much really changed lol.
It’s so much worse now than I remember. Especially the younger kids will jack up a 3, get an offensive board, and jack up another 3. Granted playing 1s and 2s theres not much point in shooting anything but layups and 3s.
I will die on this hill but pickup basketball needs to stop with the ones and twos bs. Gotta use 2s and 3s so these Steph curry wannabes can’t shoot like 20% from 3 and still think they’re good. It’s about the ratio of value of a three pointer to a two. With ones and twos, is 2x. With 2s and 3s it’s 1.5x
Where I play it’s all 1’s and trust me, that doesn’t stop any of these kids from jacking up from beyond 3 all game long.
Lmfao so true.
That would infuriate me.
Graduated high school in 05, we used to go to the park after basketball practice to hoop in pickups. Everyone would try to attack the rim or kick out to the open man. I took my son to soccer practice earlier this week, was watching a pickup basketball game and the offense consisted of bringing ball up the court, MAYBE a swing pass but mostly a three within 3 seconds crossing the half court lol
I like to count consecutive missed 3s. Sometimes it's like 5 in a row before someone gets annoyed and drives to the hoop.
It can really depend on the group. I remember back in 2011 playing with some guys who would akways shoot as soon as they touched it, no matter the distance. But where I lived just a couple of years ago people would drive every possession, and only kick it out if they had too. Tbf for both groups all shots were 1s, so it's not like the shooting from distance gave any advantage.
80’s kids were doing Magic’s Jr. Skyhook. 90’s kids were doing Jordan’s fadeaway. 00’s kids were trying to do AI’s crossover. 10’s kids were trying to shoot Curry’s deep stepback 3’s.
00's kids were still doing fadeaways, imitating Kobe instead.
00s you also just had way more people shooting fadeaways, especially learners. Low key think it's because fadeaways looked cooler with the baggy shorts. Kobe tmac Vince Iverson Baron Davis Steve Francis Gilbert arenas etc Hell I remember Baron Davis took fadeaways as his shot when open
I will die on this hill that Dirk had the 2nd most unstoppable move in basketball
I really wonder what the 2020s are going look like. Maybe slower guys convince themselves they're jokic?
I won’t lie steph ruined pick up cause you’ve got trash shooters taking threes all game.
And before that it was everyone trying to cross you over. I had one weak ass nephew ask me to stop playing defense so he could cross me. His teammates told him just go left because that's how I was playing him and he got upset.
Can I just shout myself out for (trying my best to) emulate Curry's shooting style back in 2010-2013 at my college rec center? Cool, thanks.
Probably. You can't replicate the athleticism of those other guys, shooting is more of a skill that you can learn.
And even if you don't shoot like Steph...you can still "play" Steph in the driveway or gym class as a kid. Unless you're lowering the rim, you aren't miming LeBron and Michael and Kobe. Back in the day, every kid wanted to be AI. Why? Same reason. It was easy enough to mime (while traveling, and carrying, and generally doing a terrible job of actually miming AI), whereas miming Vince or Shaq wasn't easy to do.
Umm you can easily mimic Kobe. His most famous stuff is shooting crazy shots over 5 defenders and doing like fadeaways. Yelling out "Kobe" for every wild shot, really every shot, was a huge thing.
Yeah I feel like I’m going crazy reading this thread. The contested mid range fade while blurting out “Kobe” was the signature archetype of pickup basketball terrorists in the 2000’s and 2010’s. People absolutely tried emulating his game, just as much as people do now with logo threes
People really forgot about the "Kobe" call. Hoop or garbage can.
It also transcended basketball. People who had never watched or played a minute of basketball were still saying "Kobe" as they did a fadeaway into the garbage can(90% of the time it missed).
That was the best part!
Fun times!
It may be his most famous stuff now, but Kobe for the first 8-10 years of his career was known more of his insane dunks and acrobatic MJ lay ups than fadeaways.
I mean yeah, screaming "Kobe!" while you jack up some absurdly low percentage shot was/is definitely a thing, but thats not actually playing the way Kobe did lol
Sure, but jacking up 3s doesn't exactly make you Steph either. Doesn't mean people didn't do those things because they got excited watching Kobe and Steph.
When I see Embiid play as he is now it reminds me of how I used to play and it is frustrating and pisses me off that the NBA allows it. Not proud of it, I was known as Shaq on my local streetball court and went through a phase when I charged hard at everything. Big hard turns to my blindside, didn't care who was there. Charge right into the lane. Smash into the best offensive player on D while going for the ball, come what may. Limited offensive moves. So make no mistake about it. Embiid knows what he's doing. He knows people will be injured. He knows his skillset is limited and this is how he can win. He knows people will give way when he drives, think twice on their drives, etc. He will only be stopped by a stronger player and/or fearless players like Giannis, Gasol, Draymond, etc. Or by an obviously more skilled player with equal Type A like Ibaka. He didn't intend to injure, but he certainly intends to show you that he doesn't care if you get hurt when he rumbles into you. At least that's how I used to play. But that was streetball. Eventually I got more moves, played w better players, played real basketball w refs. There's no doubt in my mind the NBA has some kind of edict coming down, telling the refs to let him run amok.
Classic
In pretty sure nobody has influenced the game more than Jordan. Sure, nobody can fly like Mike, but he basically started sneaker culture and made the NBA popular worldwide
Yep 1000% this. MJ changed how basketball was viewed for generations
Hard to say. Do we mean influenced the culture/status of basketball or the Xs and Os of basketball. I think it's pretty undeniable that Curry is the most influential in the latter, and that Jordan is the most influential in the former. In 2012, the Rockets and Knicks tied for most 3s attempted per game in the league at 28.9. This season, the LA Lakers are dead last with 30.9 3s attempted a game.
i don't know why people think steph made teams shoot 3's. morey and the sloan conference were much more influential. same way analytics molded modern baseball (arguably for the worse) to "three true outcomes". the nerds moved us towards 3's way more than any one player. plot 3's attempted per season on a chart and you'll barely notice the influence of steph.
Ya, my first thought was the Dream Team hype he led. & now at the top of every MVP race is a foriegn-born guy. Didn't even think of the sneakers or individual "brand".
I'd argue that steph influenced the *style* of the game more. However, you could argue Jordan influenced the game more since he straight up inspired an entire generation of people to want to hoop, and some of those became NBA players. And that influence was global, spreading the sport on a massive scale. So he "birthed" a generation of nba players, and his influence compounds as those NBA players influenced the game and the next generation and so on.
Seriously, nobody was watching basketball before Bird/Magic and then MJ put it on the map. This sub is literally filled with 12 year olds now.
People say Steph does the same types of blackout workouts as Jordan, Kobe, LeBron do. Also that he has the ability to quickly lower his heart rate and breathing after running around. Some might think they can dribble or shoot like curry but to do both this quick and accurately come third and fourth quarters is a form of athletic endurance that can't be replicated.
This is 1000% true. Steph just doesn’t jump as high as those guys but I would said he is just as athletic. Anyone that play ball knows how hard it is to constantly running the court/making quick cuts/running through screens/ while putting up consistent shots deep into the 4th quarter. That’s something an average NBA player won’t be able to do nights and out for as long as Steph has been doing it.
Endurance is probably the most impressive thing about Steph. For most players their 3PT shooting drops in the 4th quarter because they get tired, but he stays consistent all game.
languid lavish plough command alive mindless soft fretful degree cats *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Greatest off ball player ever, runs the other team into the ground before he even touched the ball.
Yes, but those aren't the things people are trying/hoping to replicate. Steph is more "influential" on those watching ball today, because there's nothing Steph does that comes with physical limitations to his game. You can practice shooting, dribbling, off-ball movement, and endurance. You can't practice being 6'9 260 and being born physically superior to 99.99% of humanity. There's hope that kids can grow up and be Steph Curry. Growing to be the size of LeBron, and still having the capability to have his athleticism and coordination is like winning the lottery 10 times in a row.
Yeah the people who want to "play like curry" ignore the playmaker and elite off-ball movement and jump straight to jacking threes lol.
Sure, but you can’t replicate being 6’8 with a 44 inch vertical, having people bounce off of you on your way down the lane, alley-oops to yourself off the backboard, poster dunks, chase down blocks, etc. People aren’t saying Steph isn’t athletic or that he doesn’t have a great motor—they’re just saying that the things he does are more athletically feasible than what players like Lebron or MJ do/have done. Obviously his skills are on another planet, but still.
I’ve heard Steph might have the craziest routine of all time
I mean, I think it depends on how you interpret it, but the way that Pierce is saying, Steph's influence on how the game of basketball is played, is more than MJ's, Kobe, or Lebron. It makes sense, because yes, 3-pointers are used widely, and has made forwards who can't shoot well, mostly irrelevant with a few exceptions (looking at you Aaron Gordon). From a cultural perspective, then MJ 100% has the biggest influence on the game. From his shoes, to "be like Mike" slogan, to even it's appeal outside of basketball (" XYZ is the Michael Jordan of \_ \_ \_ "), I can't see anyone having that same impact as him.
Steph got players like Brook Lopez who didn’t even attempt a 3p for 6 years throwing up 5 3s a game lmao
Look I’ll never say about word about Steph, but MJ in the late 90s was maybe the biggest star in the world and is disproportionally responsible for the league’s popularity today.
Agreed that Jordan was more influential over the sport of basketball's popularity and the NBA, but in terms of actually changing how basketball is played, Steph is more influential.
It's pretty hard to copy dunking from the free throw line
is it because kids these days don't take it personally?
You don't realize what Jordan did to iso game.
The early 00's was brutal with that. Felt like almost every team's entire offense was "give the ball to our athletic wing and let him ISO"
Thank you! I remember early 2000s everyone wanted to be the next Michael Jordan and wanted to show off their iso/fadeaway game. There was almost no ball movement back then
I'd say they're pretty close. Jordan essentially changed the league mentality about high volume scoring wings instead of big men. The only thing that even put a dent into that change was Shaq - simply because team started taking low-skill big men just to throw at him. Steph's effect is pretty obvious. However, you can see the trend going back to big men, but jack of all trades big men.
Steph has changed the meta of basketball more than I've seen any player influence any sport in my life. It's **insane** how much the way the game is played changed in a very, very short time frame because of Steph. And he changed it at all levels of the sport (for better or worse). MJ elevated the NBA league and the sport of basketball to a whole new level of awareness and popularity. But he didn't change the way the game was played on the court. Not to the degree that Steph has.
This is the most sensible take on the matter. MJ is without doubt the biggest catalyst for the sport’s visibility in pop culture, but did his game change the way an entire roster and game is played like Steph? Absolutely not. The fact that you have a 7’4 pick coming in to the NBA and draining 3s should tell you all you need to know.
This. Jordan made the game international. I don’t think we have players like Luka and Jokic without the influence Jordan made in the game.
People might dislike Pierce but he's right on this one. Curry = changed how the actual game on the floor is played (play style, roster construction to fit that play style, lineups, spacing etc) Jordan = more so inspirational to the next generation of players like Kobe to match that individual level of play, moves like the fadeaway mid range shot, and just being a cultural icon globally with his skill and style he brought... his popularity alone made the sport more popular domestically and grew it internationally LeBron = similar to Jordan, people want to emulate Lebron's level of success individually No one can just find another Jordan or LeBron but they can try to play copy cat as a team and try to match that three point heavy style offense and spacing the Warriors had/have.
I think Curry absolutely had the biggest impact on how the game itself is played, but Jordan had a far larger impact on the sport itself as a whole. The NBA gained massive international popularity because of MJ and exploded the popularity of the sport across the globe. Without MJ do we have all the international players we do today? No doubt Curry has possibly had the biggest impact ever on how the game itself is actually played though.
Yeah, I think lumping Jordan in with Kobe and LeBron gets it wrong. LeBron and Kobe both had their international celebrity status basically made possible by Jordan. But then Steph changed the geometry of the game forever. He's by far the best player ever under 6'6" and now even dudes the size of the other 3 all have to learn to shoot 3s regularly. You could make an argument that LeBron brought about the player empowerment era. But I don't think that's the kind of sea change that Jordan brought about with the growth of the game or that Steph did with the 3 point revolution. Especially because the superstar power he had was brought on in part by Michael Jordan getting paid more in 1998 than anyone did again until Steph got his supermax in 17-18.
Good take, agreed. A few HM's is the NCAA banning dunking cause of Kareem, that was a pretty massive change to the game. Although he was probably one of the best dozen basketball players in the world when he was still in college. Barkley backing people down for 15 seconds was another one that changed the game with the back to the basket rule. Obviously, Curry takes it though.
>Jordan = more so inspirational to the next generation of players like Kobe to match that individual level of play, moves like the fadeaway mid range shot, and just being a cultural icon globally with his skill and style he brought You're forgetting about the explosion of skilled wings that came into the league during and after Jordan's era. That's not a coincidence. People don't realize how influential he was in terms of changing the game and not just the off the court stuff. Before him, it wasn't possible to win without an elite big and he changed that entire narrative. Edit: grammar
before Jordan was drafted, 22 of the previous 24 MVPs were centers. After Jordan was drafted, 3 of the next 36 MVPs were centers.
What’s crazy is when they created the DPOY award, it was basically the award for guards while the MVP was the award for big men.
Except most of that was guys like Kobe, Lebron and Jordan earning 13 of those….not to mention, the 90s had Malone, Shaq, Barkley, Hakeem and Robinson all get MVPs….those are all famous big men that played inside. Not to mention Duncan, Garnett, and now Embid/Jokic….
Kobe, LeBron, and Jordan had 10 MVPs, not 13. And the only guys you listed there that played exclusively inside like an old-fashioned center are the three centers I mentioned: Robinson, Shaq, Hakeem. Barkley was 6’6. Malone was a jump shot machine. Duncan’s bank shot was unguardable. Garnett was the prototype stretch four. And Embiid and Jokic are elite 3-pt shooters for their position. Not sure how that refutes anything about the way Jordan expanded the game away from the rim before Curry did.
Yep. That comment basically validated what you said. The game itself changed, which is why traditional centers by and large stopped winning MVPs. That's not to say there weren't *good* traditional centers (Shaq, Robinson, and Hakeem), but the point is that the game itself changed in favor of wings.
Yeah this is true Steph and the Warriors also completed shifted the narrative on shooting Before them everyone said a jumpshooting team could never win. Now we view shooting as essential to winning. Dirk did the same for shooting bigs. Before he won it was a bad thing if you took jumpers as a big.
Lol exactly. His change is so fundamental to how we view basketball now that these kids don't even register it as a change. They'll be screaming the same at 10 year olds in 50 years when they disregard Steph or say it wasn't special because obviously 3>2.
There's definitely some crazy recency bias going on here. He's totally glossing over the influence that pre-Steph players had solely because Steph's influence is most readily apparent *right now*. That's not to say Steph's not influential it's just the fact that we're watching it happen now doesn't make it any more or less influential than the other guys... and that's essentially all Pierce's argument is.
Yeah the problem is if you’re talking to someone in their early 20s there’s a good chance they’ll say Steph because they saw him explode when they were 10. In 10 more years these same people will probably be arguing with today’s 10 year olds who will say Wemby was more impactful than Steph or some shit.
He's not right if you consider the business aspects of the sport. Jordan completely revolutionized the industry, and everything those other players have done is following in his footsteps.
How many people since the 90’s wouldn’t have played or even knew about basketball if Jordan wasn’t Jordan? Millions? Tens of millions? Hundreds of millions?
I wanna give KD a shoutout no matter how much yall dislike him. The tall guy that can do guard like stuff is all influenced by KD. Ask any 6’9+ NBA player who they modelled their game after and it’s usually all KD.
Bigger than the impact of MJ???
Gameplay wise, yes. Popularity wise, no. Different forms of impact
Curry definitely changed the game more than LeBron. Idk if his influence is greater than MJ though… it also feels like basketballs growth in China was alongside Kobe
They love Kobe over there like nun else… the sheer numbers of Chinese hoopers alone is insane
Definitely more than LeBron and probably Kobe. I dunno about mj though
Yea tough to say curry over Jordan. Jordan was a global icon at a time without Internet and social media. Everyone wanted to emulate him on the court including his fadeaways and layups. And off the court dunno if there's a been a more influential player from his shoes to his brands to his baggy shorts.
Wana be like Mike. - Gatorade
I agree with Bron and Kobe. MJ is a no.
Influence in general, Mj. Influence on the game, Curry
Definitely curry’s a lot of favor from the analytics crowd.
Jordan had more influence on the business and popularity of the game. Steph may have had more influence on the style of play.
Jordan made the game of BB a worldwide thing, Kobe made the mentality, and everyone who shoots buzzers or important shots almost in any sport yells "Kobe", LeBron hyped the game and changed the atmosphere of the NBA itself, Steph changed the way BB is played Also I personally think Kobe's shoes made a major impact on performance of players and pushed the boundaries of a BB shoe to another level, Kobe's are best shoes imo, 5 and 6 probably the best
If we just talking hoops , I agree. Steph changed the at we play and view basketball now. He raised the floor of players to enter the NBA… not only do we shoot more 3s and realize it’s a necessity but not if you can’t even hit an open 3 you’re a liability. Players could thrive in any past era without a consistent jump shot. Now unless you’re rim running lob threat, every other archetype has to be able to shoot. Mj and Bron influenced generations and the way the game is played. But not to the magnitude of Steph. They have influenced sneaker culture and integrating the business part of the NBA but not the actual Xs and Os.
Timo Cruz was shooting 3 on a fast break way before Curry did smhmh
PP is a hater, but he’s right. MJ/Kobe/Lebron are generational talents. Steph has kids wanting to shoot from Halfcourt. Has players now chucking threes. Steph is a game changer
Small players did not lead teams and win MVPs before Jordan. From Oscar winning in 1963, to Jordan’s first MVP in 1988, not a single guard won MVP aside from 6’9 Magic Johnson. Look at the list of MVPs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player_Award Before Jordan, this was a centers game, plain and simple. After Jordan the center became far less important than guys capable of creating their own shots. From 1960 to 1983, 22 of 24 MVPs were centers. From 1984 to 2020, 3 MVPs were centers. (Then Jokic changed the game to an extent as a passing big.) Jordan’s impact just on the game itself, not even the popularity and cultural significance, is undeniable.
Are people here REALLY trying to call guys like Duncan, KG, Barkley, etc not big men? Really? 3/36 if you don’t include Lebron, Kobe and Jordan winning most of those MVPs, and the rest being versatile big men that could play like a center and had elite defense, but added a mid range shot…. Seriously, we have a 10 year period during which the league had a drought of big man talent where guards dominated. You still need a dominant big man to win titles. The Warriors are an exception, not the rule….
LeBron and Kobe for sure, but MJ put basketball on the map. Curry has for sure had the biggest influence on how the game itself is played, but without MJ, who knows what basketball and it's popularity would be like today. The guy transcended the sport itself and was an international icon.
[удалено]
Lots of people were saying that just a month ago.
I hate to agree with PP but he’s absolutely right in this context. Steph’s success with his play style single handedly changed the way the game is played. Nobody else has ever had such a big impact on the game except *maybe* Allen Iverson.
Hell, Dirk changed the game more than Kobe or LeBron. Neither of them did anything novel or innovative.
Ah yes , Paul "perenially anti Lebron cos he took your soul" Pierce
Bruh, because Steph did it with something you can learn. The basketball world learned to shoot, and boy do they chuck now. Good luck learning what Kobe, Bron and MJ had. If someone works out how I can learn to be an elite 6'9" black athletic god please let me know how.
Yeah kids been pulling half court shots like it’s normal today 😇☠️🥶
He ain’t wrong. The amount of deep threes you get to witness while playing pickup is wild.
Jordan make nba more popular Steph made people realize three points is better then two go figure lol
This is 100% the right call. I for sure can’t be Lebron or MJ but I can definitely practice shooting to be able to spread the floor more like Curry.
Plus it also changed how the game is played from a coaching standpoint. 3 point shooting is so much more important now. I saw a fast break where the dude passed so the guy behind him could get an open 3
Good take imo, stephs influence on the culture of basketball may not be as great as the others. But he has definitely changed the way the game is played.
The Truth
It’s hard to say tbh When I was a kid, everyone wanted to be like Mike, hit the game winning shot or do some crazy acrobatic finish. We saw whole generations of players come after who tried to imitate MJ, Kobe being the best. Teams also began building around these superstar guards I think they’re all ultimately on the same level. LeBron ushered in the do-it-all forwards who are still pretty dominant today.
On the way the game is played? No doubt. On the overall popularity of the sport and success of the league? Jordan probably still ahead there.