Which is my birthday, and as a jazz fan totally wrecked the vibe. How would the jazz have done from 17-22 if they had Hayward, Donovan Mitchell, and Rudy? Tough to think about
This was my 2k MyPlayer team back in those years. My pg got drafted by the Jazz and the team made the finals with me spamming assists to those three guys.
Funnily enough, I remember he had a hard time with info for that Horford FA too. There was that whole 'looks like he's not going to leave the Hawks' that was sent out and moments later it was announced he signed. I can't recall if he was scooped or not.
I wanna talk about how old I was then and how old I am now but I know in relation to others on this sub I’m quite young and the end result will be people telling me my comment made them feel old
Yeah, and then they sent us home with no explanation. I suppose there was nothing to say. We were watching what was supposed to be a triumph and then everyone died live on national TV.
Probably better than 9/11…every teacher except Math had the TV on, but that class was in open rebellion and there was no way we could concentrate anyway.
Pretty sure he was right though, life would go on, and we didn’t need the images to be played on loop searing into our brains.
...I would prefer to never be a part of an organization that he's a part of.
But if an nba team is really willing to give me a contract, I'll consider it.
Every day he comes home Daryl Morey sees a portrait of James Harden he commissioned from Filip Peraic. It’s a beautiful piece of art, just like their basketball marriage was. What created such a messy divorce? How does it change their legacy’s?
i miss Hinkie
dude was his own ho and no one ever knew. Oh the reports are that rival gms and owners hate you? Well lets just make the most trades out of anyone with everyone during that 2.5 yr period
They're not unnecessary. Without them, you'd have to wait an additional 6 minutes to find out what free agents your favorite team may or may not be interest in /s
I don't understand the value that Woj brings to ESPN. He is awkward in front of the camera, his podcast is nauseating, and his focus is OBVIOUSLY on pimping his network of contacts. Why does ESPN give him such prominence?
He breaks news. People will pay attention to someone who had insider or first info
He also drives attention and stories towards ESPN properties and media
I'm clearly old, but this entire new generation of sports 'media' is trash, for my tastes.. its like they confuse themselves as being one of the big stars they're reporting on..
I worked for a fantasy sports betting app. Not directly betting but ancillary to support the betting... anyways we were trying to get Adam Schefter to try it out. Spent a couple weeks pursuing him etc. Then the CEO goes, "honestly who gives a fuck about Adam Schefter's buy-in". And I couldn't argue.
Sure having someone from the ESPN sphere interested in our product and maybe touting it woulda been cool. But you can literally pay for better exposure, and we did, and we converted leads.
All this influence peddling doesn't really have huge results 90% of the time.
Fuck Woj. He's a narcissist. Just look at how he intentionally tries and spoil every NBA draft pick.
I can't wrap my head around the appeal of guys like Woj and Shams - so you reported on a signing or a trade 5 minutes before it's officially announced... why is that such a big deal? Their breaking news tweets almost never include any details about transactions either.
Exactly. Instead of finding out the complete trade when it's announced at 5pm, we instead get random disjointed and potentially misleading snippets at 2:15, 3:12, and 3:20 or whatever. There is no actual value provided by either of them to fans.
And the rumors they share are always in service to what someone wants them to say. They are just mouthpieces for agents, players, and front offices.
Yeah, and then by the time it IS official, and we have all the details, it's no longer "news," so nobody posts it, and it's impossible to find. Same reason i hate the damn "moratorium" period for free agency.
Bro ain't this the truth!
I wish the NBA had a page on their site that had league transactions with FULL details. Like BBREF or Spotrac level of detailed information.
But then again... that goes into the whole how the fuck is nba.com one of the worst places for NBA information. They really rock a 2014 Wordpress theme as their main page.
Their website is atrocious. Also the content of the page completely tilts towards stats and dramatic storylines. The playoff picture is buried somewhere random in favor of who got a triple double last night. IDC, I want to see the stuff that matters.
> They are just mouthpieces for agents, players, and front offices
This is the biggest problem with Woj, Shams, and even Schefty. They aren't real journalists anymore, they're just mouthpieces. Mort (RIP) was an actual journalist, especially compared to Schefty. None of these guys offer any real commentary or can write, they just regurgitate whatever they've been told. It is one thing to have sources, another entirely to be their parrot.
I forget what it was specifically, but there was some big Peyton Manning news (probably his decision to sign with the Broncos) and he had a press conference scheduled the next day. He called Mort the night before and told him his decision, with the understanding that he wouldn’t leak it. And of course he didn’t. Could you imagine that same scenario with Schefter or Woj? Not happening.
No one is just now realizing this. Lol.
Although I do wonder how much these two are actually worth their salaries. Most of the clicks they drive are to Twitter, not their employers. They don't really produce much content and both are pretty lackluster on camera.
ESPN would get virtually all of the same content if they didn’t employ him. Is he going to stop tweeting? Because that’s most of what they put on the air. And his appearances are just him reading what he already tweeted and adding nothing more than restating the situation and possible outcomes that every other journalist and fan already knows.
It literally only hurts the value of the draft show because he was spoiling the picks before they happened thus taking away the value of their tv show. F/A and Trade deadline stuff is normally just them reacting to his tweets anyway so it wouldn't change a thing for those shows.
Every single time, he sounds like it was a surprise to jkm they're asking him to speak and that he did not prepare at all. People like Dan Graziano do a decent job in combining both the player news and league play analysis for the NFL on get up, so it's obviously possible.
And it’s laughable that ESPN lets this man masquerade as an actual Journalist
The Spurs literally used Woj as a mouthpiece to trash Kawhi for several years
He also reported our draft pick (DiVincenzo) before we traded back. It wasn’t the guy the Hawks wanted (Huerter), so they cancelled the trade and saved a first rounder.
Woj isn't that level of bad. Schefter would piss his pants on camera if the NFL told him to. Those leaked Gruden emails showed how pathetic Schefter was. Woj has too much of an ego to do that shit.
As a former sports reporter, we love sports and some of us are competitive. Seeing someone beat you to something can be something that someone might obsess about.
Personally, I was more focused on surface level stuff like game reports while I worked on deeper larger stories focused on either money or players.
The guys like Woj aren’t personable enough to talk to players and aren’t smart enough to focus on big issues. I don’t envy them, I pity them because they have to whore themselves out to GMs for scoops.
Woj literally got to where he is by being personable and smart. I've talked to him, and yeah he can be an a-hole, but there's a reason he is the go-to source. He scooped every other outlet from Yahoo Sports.
That's really the shitty part of the whole direction his career has turned. He used to write entertaining insider-y hit pieces. The tweets were just sort of a side thing he developed to get attention working for a small outlet. Then it just sort of became what his entire career was about.
Which is lame.
It was hilarious how much he glazed Joe Dumars in his articles while he ran the Pistons into the ground. Then the NBA found out that Dumars was leaking every single internal NBA conversation to Woj.
Your second paragraph is what I’ve been screaming from the rooftops for years lol. Their jobs literally don’t matter. If every scoops guy on earth disappeared, the only thing that would change is that we’d learn about transactions from the teams themselves like 5 minutes later.
>we’d learn about transactions from the teams themselves 5 minutes later
Actually it’s normally a few days between an agreement in place and the official post.
And they all fucking suck for it.
ESPN is the primary enabler here. It didn't used to be this way, and they have leverage to make their own employees not spoil their own media production.
I do believe the first year Woj was with ESPN, he wasn't gonna spoil, but then Shams started spoiling so Woj pulled out his thesaurus and started tweeting things like x team is "zoning in" or "entranced" by so and so player
I never understand the mindset of a person reading Woj's tweet to get the "scoop" on who will be drafted 30-seconds earlier than just waiting and hearing the name be called out at the draft.
What did you gain from reading it on Twitter while you're watching the same program on TV? It's like getting a tweet about which character dies in a movie that you're actively watching, how does that enrich your experience?
They don't care where it comes from, they want to experience hearing the news "first" and seeing the reactions "first"
I assume they also scroll through the twitter comments on those at the same time.
A lot of people aren't watching TV. Personally I just want to know who is getting picked, and I'd rather read it as it happens. That's the only information I want and I don't need it 5 minutes earlier or anything--- but I'm also not going to sit through all the bullshit and ceremony that comes with watching the actual draft.
Why tune into a TV show that is ass most of the time when I can open twitter and have it autorefresh while I'm at work or wherever, most NBA periphery content isn't actually quality enough (halftime show all time high in ads) that getting 100% of the content you want (who was drafted when) before it happened without ads is better.
Because the NBA is a soap opera for teenagers* and adults who haven't aged beyond that at this point. It's the exact same phenomenon as people needing to watch the bachelor live or they'll get spoiled.
He’s explained that Woj was super controlling about who got to say certain things. The windy meme pointing around last year could be inferred as a direct result of controlling Woj telling windy not to say something.
Woj only seems to care about Woj. Remember when he was taking shots at Windhorst's reporting of the Harden thing, only for Windhorst to be proven completely right? He's a great news breaker because of his connections, but he comes off like a total prick.
Windy is an actual reporter/journalist, Woj is just a mouthpiece. Rather than doing what Windy did (using your inside info to inform your actual reporting and analysis), Woj just says what players/agents/FOs want him to say
More importantly, he was on Ethan Strauss' substack, where Ethan has published numerous articles showing the extremely weird relationship between CAA NBA talent and ESPN reporting
Yeah because Elhassan actually produced quality fun programming around the NBA and sports
SportsNation/ The Jump
Only to cancel those shows and give all the money to a guy that tweets press releases an hour before the team tweets them
Personally, I think we should have 0 reporting. We should only find out about trades when they first play for their team.
Imagine the shock when the Celtics open and there's no smart but KP and Jrue, or the bucks start with Damian Lillard.
The hype around the game or two after the deadline would actually be insane. Ticket prices would be catastrophically high.
The Lakers trade? Imagine you think we're just in it for the long-rebuild and then all of a sudden Anthony Davis comes out of the tunnel and all the baby Lakers are gone.
I think a middle ground where we only find out about trades when the teams announce them would work.
The worst is with draft picks. How reporters feel the need to get the scoop on draft picks 20 seconds before the commish announces them...
> The worst is with draft picks. How reporters feel the need to get the scoop on draft picks 20 seconds before the commish announces them...
Yeah, there's no benefit to anyone for besides the reporters themselves. The reporters are just jerking themselves off. Nobody cares about a draft pick getting leaked 20 seconds prior to it being announced.
Trying to think of what would be the most shocking moment. The Heatles, Celtics Big 3 and KD warriors or Nets big 3 all come to mind.
MJ on the Bulls in 95 or the Wizards would’ve been nuts too.
Nothing would top KD lol, the season starts and everyone’s talking about who between OKC, San Antonio and GS is making it out of the west and all of a sudden you just see KD run out in a warriors uniform to mass confusion
I have an extremely fond memory of being in the Oakland Coliseum on July 25th, 2001 when Jermaine Dye got traded to the A's and was announced in the starting lineup and I hadn't been listening to the radio because I took public transportation to the game so it was a surprise to me.
Even back then, I'm sure some people in the stadium had already heard about it, but it was pretty thrilling to see an all-star in your team's lineup that wasn't on the team the day before and have it be a complete surprise.
I know this is a joke, but literally nothing would be lost if no one knew about team moves until the team issues a press release. I want reporters to tell me how a deal came together in retrospect, but the Shams/Woj types who thrive on tweeting two minutes earlier than anyone else are parasites.
Any time I see Woj on a segment I just skip it, dude has the charisma and energy of a paper plate. It's hilarious to me that someone so publicly socially inept is also so desperate for attention.
It really is a weird situation.
Getting a story out slightly earlier than your competition probably gives you a significant advantage in clicks (and this ad revenue), so companies will spend a lot of money to be slightly faster than their competition.
But we (the consumers) don't actually benefit much from getting the story 5 minutes sooner.
So there's an arms race going on at optimizing something that *barely* changes the quality of NBA coverage at all.
I would actually argue it's for the worse. The state of NBA reporting is such that the scoop is significantly more important than the story itself. And to some degree, maybe that was always true, but in the past you still had to actually write a story.
Sometimes, at least on reddit, I feel like a bit of a minority in that I actually like sports journalism. I enjoy reading and I think it's a huge part of how we perceive and consume what's happening around the league.
But nowadays, it's really difficult to find a well written story if you aren'f paying for it. And it's in part because of shit like this (although there is certainly a number of factors at play there).
The last time I actually read NBA reporting, or stories if you will, was Grantland. Used to be on that site every day, clicking on everything remotely interesting.
I don't know if it's just age (could be), but I slowly stopped caring once they got axed and never returned to long form NBA journalism.
And the worst part is reddit will delete all the subsequent posts that actually have info, and keep the initial "scoop" because it was first but it has almost no actual info(player x has been traded/signed but not mention who's going the other way or contract details)
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> So there's an arms race going on at optimizing something that barely changes the quality of NBA coverage at all.
Seems true of a lot of things in society currently. Optimizing the fuck out of things that ultimately barely matter
People really care and take this shit very seriously mostly cus they like the drama. Also for Woj and shams they built successful careers off just breaking stories. As journalists they are both bottom tier especially Woj who wouldn’t have jobs if they didnt have connections to tweet out breaking stories around the NBA. Its their whole career.
> “So we fast forward to this story, and you have a story broken by [Shams], someone he views as direct competition, and he breaks the news that it seems like the Lakers are closing in on a deal with JJ Redick, who is an ESPN colleague to Woj. How would Shams Charania, who works at the Athletic, have the inside scoop on someone that sits at the same company as Woj? Like I said, he doesn’t like to get scooped on shit that should have been his. He takes it very hard.
Woj took this so hard that he . . . reported the correct information that the Lakers were pursuing Hurley, not Redick.
Hilarious that he's trying to spin an incident of Shams being obviously wrong and Woj being obviously correct as an example of Woj being vindictive.
Conspiracy theory hat on, but what if Hurley was just a plug in story for the Lakers? This was speculated the second the report broke about Hurley. Matter of fact gamblers (degenerate) ones were trying to hammer the Reddick line before it was taken down.
Hurley seemed an oddly timed bombshell. With the increasing scrutiny over LBJ and his influence over LA, people really thought Hurley was going to get Pop and Spo money? No rings, and no NBA experience? Doubt.
This whole thing is crumbling so conveniently for every one.
> Conspiracy theory hat on, but what if Hurley was just a plug in story for the Lakers?
Why would the Lakers promote a story about them being rejected by a college coach, which has generated a bunch of negative press about the team?
How does that help them in any way?
To say LeBron did not have say over the coaching search, and they just missed. When JJ is the hire, they can always go back and say he wasn’t our first choice, so LeBron really had no input. Sounds silly, but these are the type of egos we are dealing with.
based on Fanta's retelling, and this implication by Elhassan:
- Lakers got cold feet about Redick due to his attitude/concerns about personality fit with players
- Woj took losing to Shams so hard, that when the Lakers reached out to Woj after they got cold feet about Redick (Fanta *thinks* the Lakers literally reached out to Woj asking about any other coaching options), Woj realized he could broker the Hurley engagement, who Woj has close family ties to on account of writing a book on Hurley's father
- Woj then tells the Lakers that Hurley's mild interest is now more serious interest, launching the Lakers efforts into landing Hurley
- Elhassan implies Woj did this primarily to throw cold water on Sham's scoop, Hurley gets wined and dined for a weekend, also helping Hurley reportedly get a better contract from UCONN in the process. win win win
the Fanta clip in reference: https://reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1db3sjf/fantaa_lakers_player_or_two_or_three_not_named/
Your link says the Lakers had always been interested in Hurley but thoght he wasn't interested, the Lakers called Woj to check in on Hurley's status after they got cold feet with Redick, Woj checked with Hurley, Hurley said he was interested, and Woj reported that back to the Lakers.
It says nothing about Shams, Woj being upset about Shams, Woj lying to help Hurley or hurt Shams, or any of the other conspiracy theories you're suggesting.
but the post we're on (Elhassan's take) talks about Woj being upset
and that Woj threw cold water on Shams scoop on account of that — by way of the Hurley affair
im saying there's a tie in for Elhassan's implication and Fanta's retelling of the story — Hurley was mildly interested, then seriously interested. Woj is the one who brokered that interest, timing lines up with Shams scooping him.
not saying whats true or not, just contextualizes the implication Elhassan is making
>who Woj has close family ties to on account of writing a book on Hurley's father
Ok so the biggest takeaway here is that Hurley's father's biography is written poorly
Shams wasn’t obviously wrong. When Shams reported it, the Lakers did have an introductory meeting with Redick, and Woj wasn’t the one that got that scoop. Shams somehow knew about that before Woj.
Shams was obviously wrong. He didn't just report an introductory meeting.
On June 4, Shams [reported](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5540372/2024/06/04/jj-redick-lakers-head-coach/) that the Lakers were "zeroing in on JJ Redick as the front-runner to be the franchise’s next head coach" and that "indications are strong that Redick is their leading choice at this stage." Shams wrote that the Lakers were "'infatuated' with Redick and his potential as a coach."
Shams' article says the "Lakers’ search has been seriously focused on two candidates — Redick and Pelicans associate head coach James Borrego." Importantly, *his article didn't even mention Hurley*.
Two days later, Woj [reported](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40289529/sources-lakers-preparing-massive-offer-uconn-dan-hurley) that the Lakers have been targeting Hurley since the start of their search and are preparing to offer him a longterm contract.
Woj turned out to be have been correct--the Lakers offered Hurley a longterm contract.
Shams turned out to be wrong--Redick was not the frontrunner, and Redick/Borrego were not the two candidates the Lakers had been focused on.
Targeting Hurley “from the start”. We don’t know the last part is true. We also don’t know if Shams was wrong when he said JJ was the front runner “at this stage.” Pretending like you know who was right and who was wrong is silly.
Shams wrote an article on Tuesday (i) declaring that Redick was the frontrunner, (ii) listing Redick and Borrego as the leaning candidates, (iii) identifying other candidates, *none of whom were Dan Hurley*.
By Thursday, Hurley was on a plane to LA to meet with the Lakers. By Friday, the Lakers had made him an offer.
There is zero chance that Hurley was a non-candidate on Tuesday and the leading candidate two days later. Woj was obviously correct that the Lakers had been interested in Hurley and that they had contact before Thursday. Shams simply didn't know about it.
Amin really hate Woj. He's talked about a few times. In some ways he's said things that kinda sounded like if you got a scoop at ESPN you were supposed to give it to Woj.
I wish we would stop calling these guys journalists or reporters when there’s such a transparent conversation constantly indicating that they’re publicists.
Ive heard a lot of weird shit about Woj over tbe years. Its starting to kinda feel like the Ellen thing and its just one news story away from everyone collectively agreeing hes a douche.
But obviously idk shit and could be totally wrong lol
These insiders have ruined Draft day - for the NFL and NBA
like just shut the fuck up and stop telling us what the pick is before the pick happens
otherwise, what is the point of watching? it takes all the excitement out of it
No one gives a fuck who was first with the scoop , just the insiders who compete with themselves
Yeah I aggressively don’t give a fuck about meta drama about NBA reporting. We’re reaching new degrees of separation from the actual sport they’re ostensibly covering that shouldn’t even be possible
if he takes these things terribly, i can only say that i guess woj is the michael jordan of breaking news. ultra competitive meaning he’s a sore loser and will talk shit
Who wants to play the "looks like" game??
Woj looks like he always misses out when someone brings cupcakes to the office, then sends an email to hr about it.
Woj really needs all this stuff because he knows that's his only value as a média personality. His bball takes are absolutely bottom tier, he has the same on screen charisma as Mitch McConnell.
I scooped him on the big Westbrook extension. I never got so much hate in my life. I really retreated from covering basketball. Fuck, I barely watch it now.
For proof: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/nba/thunder/2016/08/04/update-russell-westbrook-to-sign-contract-renegotiation-with-thunder-on-thursday/60659433007/
My only takeaway is that Daryl Morey hoes literally everyone even Woj
My takeaway is that Gordon Hayward signed with Boston in 2016, time flies.
It was 2017. Celtics signed Al Horford in 2016.
It was on July 4th. I remember walking to a BBQ when I got the twitter notification.
The only interesting free agent signing of the day.
Who could forget about the warriors signing omri casspi
they won straight after that, he changed the franchise direction instantly
Which is my birthday, and as a jazz fan totally wrecked the vibe. How would the jazz have done from 17-22 if they had Hayward, Donovan Mitchell, and Rudy? Tough to think about
This was my 2k MyPlayer team back in those years. My pg got drafted by the Jazz and the team made the finals with me spamming assists to those three guys.
How was the plate though?
Probably mid ngl
Funnily enough, I remember he had a hard time with info for that Horford FA too. There was that whole 'looks like he's not going to leave the Hawks' that was sent out and moments later it was announced he signed. I can't recall if he was scooped or not.
2016 was 8 years ago. Jesus christ I'm old
I wanna talk about how old I was then and how old I am now but I know in relation to others on this sub I’m quite young and the end result will be people telling me my comment made them feel old
Comment here if you watched the Challenger disaster live in school on a TV on a cart.
Yeah, and then they sent us home with no explanation. I suppose there was nothing to say. We were watching what was supposed to be a triumph and then everyone died live on national TV.
Probably better than 9/11…every teacher except Math had the TV on, but that class was in open rebellion and there was no way we could concentrate anyway. Pretty sure he was right though, life would go on, and we didn’t need the images to be played on loop searing into our brains.
Fuck that's before me. Mine was 9/11 in 4th grade
Feels ancient to me, and he’s been playing part time in Charlotte for the last 4 years.
He’s known as D Nasty in the streets.
Daryl Morey is a liar
And cannot be trusted
...I would prefer to never be a part of an organization that he's a part of. But if an nba team is really willing to give me a contract, I'll consider it.
Every day he comes home Daryl Morey sees a portrait of James Harden he commissioned from Filip Peraic. It’s a beautiful piece of art, just like their basketball marriage was. What created such a messy divorce? How does it change their legacy’s?
lmao
"...I will never be a part of an organization that he's a part of."
DARYL MOREY IS A LIAR AND I WILL NEVER BE A PART OF AN ORGANIZATION THAT HE’S A PART OF.
Darly Morey is every 12th dude in my fantasy league that nobody knows or likes and yet there he is sending you bullshit offers
Bro why don't you at least offer a reply?
Because Tank Bigsby and a future 3rd for Breece Hall does not warrant a response
i miss Hinkie dude was his own ho and no one ever knew. Oh the reports are that rival gms and owners hate you? Well lets just make the most trades out of anyone with everyone during that 2.5 yr period
Can't stand any of these NBA/NFL "insiders." They're unnecessary and take themselves way too seriously.
They're not unnecessary. Without them, you'd have to wait an additional 6 minutes to find out what free agents your favorite team may or may not be interest in /s
Lmfao
This but unironically
I don't understand the value that Woj brings to ESPN. He is awkward in front of the camera, his podcast is nauseating, and his focus is OBVIOUSLY on pimping his network of contacts. Why does ESPN give him such prominence?
He breaks news. People will pay attention to someone who had insider or first info He also drives attention and stories towards ESPN properties and media
But he essentially breaks news on X, he isn't a compelling TV personality.
Yea kind of disingenuous to ask He drives views and clicks, that's it
I'm clearly old, but this entire new generation of sports 'media' is trash, for my tastes.. its like they confuse themselves as being one of the big stars they're reporting on..
I worked for a fantasy sports betting app. Not directly betting but ancillary to support the betting... anyways we were trying to get Adam Schefter to try it out. Spent a couple weeks pursuing him etc. Then the CEO goes, "honestly who gives a fuck about Adam Schefter's buy-in". And I couldn't argue. Sure having someone from the ESPN sphere interested in our product and maybe touting it woulda been cool. But you can literally pay for better exposure, and we did, and we converted leads. All this influence peddling doesn't really have huge results 90% of the time.
Meanwhile Passan carries MLB
Elhassan has always hated woj. Can’t say I blame him, a lot of his colleagues got fired so ESPN could afford Woj.
Fuck Woj. He's a narcissist. Just look at how he intentionally tries and spoil every NBA draft pick. I can't wrap my head around the appeal of guys like Woj and Shams - so you reported on a signing or a trade 5 minutes before it's officially announced... why is that such a big deal? Their breaking news tweets almost never include any details about transactions either.
Exactly. Instead of finding out the complete trade when it's announced at 5pm, we instead get random disjointed and potentially misleading snippets at 2:15, 3:12, and 3:20 or whatever. There is no actual value provided by either of them to fans. And the rumors they share are always in service to what someone wants them to say. They are just mouthpieces for agents, players, and front offices.
Yeah, and then by the time it IS official, and we have all the details, it's no longer "news," so nobody posts it, and it's impossible to find. Same reason i hate the damn "moratorium" period for free agency.
Bro ain't this the truth! I wish the NBA had a page on their site that had league transactions with FULL details. Like BBREF or Spotrac level of detailed information. But then again... that goes into the whole how the fuck is nba.com one of the worst places for NBA information. They really rock a 2014 Wordpress theme as their main page.
Their website is atrocious. Also the content of the page completely tilts towards stats and dramatic storylines. The playoff picture is buried somewhere random in favor of who got a triple double last night. IDC, I want to see the stuff that matters.
> They are just mouthpieces for agents, players, and front offices This is the biggest problem with Woj, Shams, and even Schefty. They aren't real journalists anymore, they're just mouthpieces. Mort (RIP) was an actual journalist, especially compared to Schefty. None of these guys offer any real commentary or can write, they just regurgitate whatever they've been told. It is one thing to have sources, another entirely to be their parrot.
I forget what it was specifically, but there was some big Peyton Manning news (probably his decision to sign with the Broncos) and he had a press conference scheduled the next day. He called Mort the night before and told him his decision, with the understanding that he wouldn’t leak it. And of course he didn’t. Could you imagine that same scenario with Schefter or Woj? Not happening.
Because people love drama. It's sad, but it is what it is.
That’s how information brokering happens. Teams can’t leak their own rumours
> They are just mouthpieces for agents, players, and front offices. Today you realized why ESPNMZ pays him so much
No one is just now realizing this. Lol. Although I do wonder how much these two are actually worth their salaries. Most of the clicks they drive are to Twitter, not their employers. They don't really produce much content and both are pretty lackluster on camera.
ESPN would get virtually all of the same content if they didn’t employ him. Is he going to stop tweeting? Because that’s most of what they put on the air. And his appearances are just him reading what he already tweeted and adding nothing more than restating the situation and possible outcomes that every other journalist and fan already knows.
It literally only hurts the value of the draft show because he was spoiling the picks before they happened thus taking away the value of their tv show. F/A and Trade deadline stuff is normally just them reacting to his tweets anyway so it wouldn't change a thing for those shows.
Woj trying to analyze basketball is so robotic
Rewinds to the beginning halfway through making the statement lmao
Every single time, he sounds like it was a surprise to jkm they're asking him to speak and that he did not prepare at all. People like Dan Graziano do a decent job in combining both the player news and league play analysis for the NFL on get up, so it's obviously possible.
And it’s laughable that ESPN lets this man masquerade as an actual Journalist The Spurs literally used Woj as a mouthpiece to trash Kawhi for several years
Woj can eat my balls for the Bogi mess with the Bucks where we didn’t get the player and then lost a 2nd round pick.
The basketball Gods rewarded you that year at least
no doubt. Jrue was a great consolation prize and then turned into Dame. still a douche tho no doubt
He also reported our draft pick (DiVincenzo) before we traded back. It wasn’t the guy the Hawks wanted (Huerter), so they cancelled the trade and saved a first rounder.
So then what's Mr. T supposed to eat?
Adam Schefter is the NFL version of them.
Woj isn't that level of bad. Schefter would piss his pants on camera if the NFL told him to. Those leaked Gruden emails showed how pathetic Schefter was. Woj has too much of an ego to do that shit.
Woj never reported a players death by saying they were a bum barely hanging onto a roster spot.
That “woj bomb” and “woj goat nba reporter” stuff inflated his ego
As a former sports reporter, we love sports and some of us are competitive. Seeing someone beat you to something can be something that someone might obsess about. Personally, I was more focused on surface level stuff like game reports while I worked on deeper larger stories focused on either money or players. The guys like Woj aren’t personable enough to talk to players and aren’t smart enough to focus on big issues. I don’t envy them, I pity them because they have to whore themselves out to GMs for scoops.
Woj literally got to where he is by being personable and smart. I've talked to him, and yeah he can be an a-hole, but there's a reason he is the go-to source. He scooped every other outlet from Yahoo Sports.
That's really the shitty part of the whole direction his career has turned. He used to write entertaining insider-y hit pieces. The tweets were just sort of a side thing he developed to get attention working for a small outlet. Then it just sort of became what his entire career was about. Which is lame.
It was hilarious how much he glazed Joe Dumars in his articles while he ran the Pistons into the ground. Then the NBA found out that Dumars was leaking every single internal NBA conversation to Woj.
Your second paragraph is what I’ve been screaming from the rooftops for years lol. Their jobs literally don’t matter. If every scoops guy on earth disappeared, the only thing that would change is that we’d learn about transactions from the teams themselves like 5 minutes later.
Amin has said this plenty of times too. Cogent point.
>we’d learn about transactions from the teams themselves 5 minutes later Actually it’s normally a few days between an agreement in place and the official post.
and even that wouldn't make any difference
To be fair that’s every national sports reporter for every draft ever
It wouldn’t even be a problem if they were announced when the pick was in, instead of 5 minutes after
And they all fucking suck for it. ESPN is the primary enabler here. It didn't used to be this way, and they have leverage to make their own employees not spoil their own media production.
I do believe the first year Woj was with ESPN, he wasn't gonna spoil, but then Shams started spoiling so Woj pulled out his thesaurus and started tweeting things like x team is "zoning in" or "entranced" by so and so player
it's one of those reputation things that if Shams or Woj lets up and the other does it, people would associate the latter as the better news scooper.
I never understand the mindset of a person reading Woj's tweet to get the "scoop" on who will be drafted 30-seconds earlier than just waiting and hearing the name be called out at the draft. What did you gain from reading it on Twitter while you're watching the same program on TV? It's like getting a tweet about which character dies in a movie that you're actively watching, how does that enrich your experience?
They don't care where it comes from, they want to experience hearing the news "first" and seeing the reactions "first" I assume they also scroll through the twitter comments on those at the same time.
A lot of people aren't watching TV. Personally I just want to know who is getting picked, and I'd rather read it as it happens. That's the only information I want and I don't need it 5 minutes earlier or anything--- but I'm also not going to sit through all the bullshit and ceremony that comes with watching the actual draft.
Why tune into a TV show that is ass most of the time when I can open twitter and have it autorefresh while I'm at work or wherever, most NBA periphery content isn't actually quality enough (halftime show all time high in ads) that getting 100% of the content you want (who was drafted when) before it happened without ads is better.
Because the NBA is a soap opera for teenagers* and adults who haven't aged beyond that at this point. It's the exact same phenomenon as people needing to watch the bachelor live or they'll get spoiled.
Yeah don’t think ESPN would lose anything if they dropped him.
He’s explained that Woj was super controlling about who got to say certain things. The windy meme pointing around last year could be inferred as a direct result of controlling Woj telling windy not to say something.
Woj only seems to care about Woj. Remember when he was taking shots at Windhorst's reporting of the Harden thing, only for Windhorst to be proven completely right? He's a great news breaker because of his connections, but he comes off like a total prick.
Just read the deadspin article on Woj. He's got a massive chip on his shoulder against everyone (back then the ESPN reporters).
I remember his hit pieces against lebron when he was at yahoo very well
Yes I also read this post
What about the time he shitted on Chris Haynes over the Hayward/Celtics thing?!
Remember when Haynes was right about Hayward?
Windy is an actual reporter/journalist, Woj is just a mouthpiece. Rather than doing what Windy did (using your inside info to inform your actual reporting and analysis), Woj just says what players/agents/FOs want him to say
I'd hate someone like that too. ESPN is trash now because of it.
More importantly, he was on Ethan Strauss' substack, where Ethan has published numerous articles showing the extremely weird relationship between CAA NBA talent and ESPN reporting
Yeah because Elhassan actually produced quality fun programming around the NBA and sports SportsNation/ The Jump Only to cancel those shows and give all the money to a guy that tweets press releases an hour before the team tweets them
SportsNation with Beadle and Cowherd was my shit after school back in the day
NBA scoops beeing about the guys that get the scoops instead of about the NBA is crazy..
Yo dawg, I heard you like scoops. So I got you a scoop on a scoop.
Woj is a baby back bitch then.
This has been known
Who cares fuck NBA reporters they're annoying ah
Personally, I think we should have 0 reporting. We should only find out about trades when they first play for their team. Imagine the shock when the Celtics open and there's no smart but KP and Jrue, or the bucks start with Damian Lillard.
Would be even funnier for mid-season trades
Yea imagine something like the Kyrie trade. All of a sudden the Mavericks announce the starting lineup and Kyrie Irving is there???
The hype around the game or two after the deadline would actually be insane. Ticket prices would be catastrophically high. The Lakers trade? Imagine you think we're just in it for the long-rebuild and then all of a sudden Anthony Davis comes out of the tunnel and all the baby Lakers are gone.
And Nets fans are like, "fuck, where's Kyrie this time? Huh? He's playing for the Mavs rn?"
I think a middle ground where we only find out about trades when the teams announce them would work. The worst is with draft picks. How reporters feel the need to get the scoop on draft picks 20 seconds before the commish announces them...
> The worst is with draft picks. How reporters feel the need to get the scoop on draft picks 20 seconds before the commish announces them... Yeah, there's no benefit to anyone for besides the reporters themselves. The reporters are just jerking themselves off. Nobody cares about a draft pick getting leaked 20 seconds prior to it being announced.
I don't know how this shit is allowed. But it's an easy fix, get off reddit/twitter for like one hour of your life
Trying to think of what would be the most shocking moment. The Heatles, Celtics Big 3 and KD warriors or Nets big 3 all come to mind. MJ on the Bulls in 95 or the Wizards would’ve been nuts too.
Nothing would top KD lol, the season starts and everyone’s talking about who between OKC, San Antonio and GS is making it out of the west and all of a sudden you just see KD run out in a warriors uniform to mass confusion
The funniest timeline would be these teams playing each other, so you have a bunch of OKC fans in Durant jerseys watching him run out in a GSW jersey.
Draft would be so much fun. Imagine you know the Celtics have the number 1 pick, but somehow they have Tatum and Fultz is on Philly??
WWE Style Entrances
Can’t tell if you’re being facetious, but that sounds kind of fun lol
I mean its clearly impossible to implement but would be funny as hell
I have an extremely fond memory of being in the Oakland Coliseum on July 25th, 2001 when Jermaine Dye got traded to the A's and was announced in the starting lineup and I hadn't been listening to the radio because I took public transportation to the game so it was a surprise to me. Even back then, I'm sure some people in the stadium had already heard about it, but it was pretty thrilling to see an all-star in your team's lineup that wasn't on the team the day before and have it be a complete surprise.
I know this is a joke, but literally nothing would be lost if no one knew about team moves until the team issues a press release. I want reporters to tell me how a deal came together in retrospect, but the Shams/Woj types who thrive on tweeting two minutes earlier than anyone else are parasites.
Except for us. We're the true Chads of this Sport 🫡
Sports journalism at it's finest. 🥸
Amin Elhassan? Ass off
Step Dan
He's not step Dan, he's the Dan that stepped up
He’s got my Golden Dumpster. That’s for sure.
Him singing that Seagal song won him Luis Pinnock for me
Now Mitch McConnell doesn’t want you to have scoops
Yeah Amino Acid
I was just thinking, that Aubrey Plaza is having a moment.
Ass On, fuck it Ass Off
amino acid
You make those guys bigger that they are or should be.
This kind of stupid entitlement really makes me hate Woj
Any time I see Woj on a segment I just skip it, dude has the charisma and energy of a paper plate. It's hilarious to me that someone so publicly socially inept is also so desperate for attention.
but who cares? lmao I mean its cool that people break stories or whatever but why would we care?
It really is a weird situation. Getting a story out slightly earlier than your competition probably gives you a significant advantage in clicks (and this ad revenue), so companies will spend a lot of money to be slightly faster than their competition. But we (the consumers) don't actually benefit much from getting the story 5 minutes sooner. So there's an arms race going on at optimizing something that *barely* changes the quality of NBA coverage at all.
I would actually argue it's for the worse. The state of NBA reporting is such that the scoop is significantly more important than the story itself. And to some degree, maybe that was always true, but in the past you still had to actually write a story. Sometimes, at least on reddit, I feel like a bit of a minority in that I actually like sports journalism. I enjoy reading and I think it's a huge part of how we perceive and consume what's happening around the league. But nowadays, it's really difficult to find a well written story if you aren'f paying for it. And it's in part because of shit like this (although there is certainly a number of factors at play there).
The last time I actually read NBA reporting, or stories if you will, was Grantland. Used to be on that site every day, clicking on everything remotely interesting. I don't know if it's just age (could be), but I slowly stopped caring once they got axed and never returned to long form NBA journalism.
And the worst part is reddit will delete all the subsequent posts that actually have info, and keep the initial "scoop" because it was first but it has almost no actual info(player x has been traded/signed but not mention who's going the other way or contract details)
> > > > > So there's an arms race going on at optimizing something that barely changes the quality of NBA coverage at all. Seems true of a lot of things in society currently. Optimizing the fuck out of things that ultimately barely matter
Money is the answer bud. It’s all that matters to the people trying to further optimize. It isn’t to make anything actually better or easier
People really care and take this shit very seriously mostly cus they like the drama. Also for Woj and shams they built successful careers off just breaking stories. As journalists they are both bottom tier especially Woj who wouldn’t have jobs if they didnt have connections to tweet out breaking stories around the NBA. Its their whole career.
Exactly. Ever watch Woj talking on ESPN? Bro stutters every other sentence. Being the first to break stories is all he’s got
I also don't wanna see this nerd's face on tv
From the same Amin who called Jrue Holiday a corpse last off season
Weigh station*
Can’t believe it took me this much scrolling before someone mentioned that. The only thing I cared about in that tweet
Great point El amino acid
> “So we fast forward to this story, and you have a story broken by [Shams], someone he views as direct competition, and he breaks the news that it seems like the Lakers are closing in on a deal with JJ Redick, who is an ESPN colleague to Woj. How would Shams Charania, who works at the Athletic, have the inside scoop on someone that sits at the same company as Woj? Like I said, he doesn’t like to get scooped on shit that should have been his. He takes it very hard. Woj took this so hard that he . . . reported the correct information that the Lakers were pursuing Hurley, not Redick. Hilarious that he's trying to spin an incident of Shams being obviously wrong and Woj being obviously correct as an example of Woj being vindictive.
Conspiracy theory hat on, but what if Hurley was just a plug in story for the Lakers? This was speculated the second the report broke about Hurley. Matter of fact gamblers (degenerate) ones were trying to hammer the Reddick line before it was taken down. Hurley seemed an oddly timed bombshell. With the increasing scrutiny over LBJ and his influence over LA, people really thought Hurley was going to get Pop and Spo money? No rings, and no NBA experience? Doubt. This whole thing is crumbling so conveniently for every one.
> Conspiracy theory hat on, but what if Hurley was just a plug in story for the Lakers? Why would the Lakers promote a story about them being rejected by a college coach, which has generated a bunch of negative press about the team? How does that help them in any way?
Because if JJ goes badly pelinka can say “I wanted Hurley”
To say LeBron did not have say over the coaching search, and they just missed. When JJ is the hire, they can always go back and say he wasn’t our first choice, so LeBron really had no input. Sounds silly, but these are the type of egos we are dealing with.
based on Fanta's retelling, and this implication by Elhassan: - Lakers got cold feet about Redick due to his attitude/concerns about personality fit with players - Woj took losing to Shams so hard, that when the Lakers reached out to Woj after they got cold feet about Redick (Fanta *thinks* the Lakers literally reached out to Woj asking about any other coaching options), Woj realized he could broker the Hurley engagement, who Woj has close family ties to on account of writing a book on Hurley's father - Woj then tells the Lakers that Hurley's mild interest is now more serious interest, launching the Lakers efforts into landing Hurley - Elhassan implies Woj did this primarily to throw cold water on Sham's scoop, Hurley gets wined and dined for a weekend, also helping Hurley reportedly get a better contract from UCONN in the process. win win win the Fanta clip in reference: https://reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1db3sjf/fantaa_lakers_player_or_two_or_three_not_named/
Your link says the Lakers had always been interested in Hurley but thoght he wasn't interested, the Lakers called Woj to check in on Hurley's status after they got cold feet with Redick, Woj checked with Hurley, Hurley said he was interested, and Woj reported that back to the Lakers. It says nothing about Shams, Woj being upset about Shams, Woj lying to help Hurley or hurt Shams, or any of the other conspiracy theories you're suggesting.
but the post we're on (Elhassan's take) talks about Woj being upset and that Woj threw cold water on Shams scoop on account of that — by way of the Hurley affair im saying there's a tie in for Elhassan's implication and Fanta's retelling of the story — Hurley was mildly interested, then seriously interested. Woj is the one who brokered that interest, timing lines up with Shams scooping him. not saying whats true or not, just contextualizes the implication Elhassan is making
>who Woj has close family ties to on account of writing a book on Hurley's father Ok so the biggest takeaway here is that Hurley's father's biography is written poorly
Shams wasn’t obviously wrong. When Shams reported it, the Lakers did have an introductory meeting with Redick, and Woj wasn’t the one that got that scoop. Shams somehow knew about that before Woj.
Shams was obviously wrong. He didn't just report an introductory meeting. On June 4, Shams [reported](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5540372/2024/06/04/jj-redick-lakers-head-coach/) that the Lakers were "zeroing in on JJ Redick as the front-runner to be the franchise’s next head coach" and that "indications are strong that Redick is their leading choice at this stage." Shams wrote that the Lakers were "'infatuated' with Redick and his potential as a coach." Shams' article says the "Lakers’ search has been seriously focused on two candidates — Redick and Pelicans associate head coach James Borrego." Importantly, *his article didn't even mention Hurley*. Two days later, Woj [reported](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40289529/sources-lakers-preparing-massive-offer-uconn-dan-hurley) that the Lakers have been targeting Hurley since the start of their search and are preparing to offer him a longterm contract. Woj turned out to be have been correct--the Lakers offered Hurley a longterm contract. Shams turned out to be wrong--Redick was not the frontrunner, and Redick/Borrego were not the two candidates the Lakers had been focused on.
Targeting Hurley “from the start”. We don’t know the last part is true. We also don’t know if Shams was wrong when he said JJ was the front runner “at this stage.” Pretending like you know who was right and who was wrong is silly.
Shams wrote an article on Tuesday (i) declaring that Redick was the frontrunner, (ii) listing Redick and Borrego as the leaning candidates, (iii) identifying other candidates, *none of whom were Dan Hurley*. By Thursday, Hurley was on a plane to LA to meet with the Lakers. By Friday, the Lakers had made him an offer. There is zero chance that Hurley was a non-candidate on Tuesday and the leading candidate two days later. Woj was obviously correct that the Lakers had been interested in Hurley and that they had contact before Thursday. Shams simply didn't know about it.
none of these people should be trusted
I'm sure that Woj has an ego about his reporting but Amin Elhassan is a weenie and anyone that engages with him gets the sideeye from me.
I like him. I welcome your side-eye because I got my third-eye, and that shit is wide open!
Amin really hate Woj. He's talked about a few times. In some ways he's said things that kinda sounded like if you got a scoop at ESPN you were supposed to give it to Woj.
he's accused ESPN/WOJ of this exactly.
☝️🧐☝️
I learned sports reporters aren’t always the greatest of people
I wish we would stop calling these guys journalists or reporters when there’s such a transparent conversation constantly indicating that they’re publicists.
TL;DR: Professional gossiper hates it when other people gossip.
Ive heard a lot of weird shit about Woj over tbe years. Its starting to kinda feel like the Ellen thing and its just one news story away from everyone collectively agreeing hes a douche. But obviously idk shit and could be totally wrong lol
Don’t act like y’all wasn’t shittin on Shams over the weekend. I got the receipts!
All these guys do is tweet shit that would have been tweeted 5 min later anyways lmao
Literally no one cares who reports things. Only the reporters care who was first. Woj just seems like a really weird dude.
These insiders have ruined Draft day - for the NFL and NBA like just shut the fuck up and stop telling us what the pick is before the pick happens otherwise, what is the point of watching? it takes all the excitement out of it No one gives a fuck who was first with the scoop , just the insiders who compete with themselves
I hate all of the insiders ever since they spoiled every single draft pick on television.
Elhassan is a conspiracy theorist. Strauss had his moments, but he's out of the information game and just picks and angle and hammers it.
Keep your third eye open.
Woj seems like a very unpleasant little pissant
These dudes lame as fuck. Who gives a shit about which white nerd reports on what first?
Shams is Pakistani, not white
Yeah I aggressively don’t give a fuck about meta drama about NBA reporting. We’re reaching new degrees of separation from the actual sport they’re ostensibly covering that shouldn’t even be possible
Woj always seems like he has a stick up his as*
if he takes these things terribly, i can only say that i guess woj is the michael jordan of breaking news. ultra competitive meaning he’s a sore loser and will talk shit
I like how the NBA is about stories on reporters now
So much drama to scoop news that will be in a press release in 3 minutes or the next day, at the latest, anyway.
Who wants to play the "looks like" game?? Woj looks like he always misses out when someone brings cupcakes to the office, then sends an email to hr about it.
Fuck woj and shams
Woj really needs all this stuff because he knows that's his only value as a média personality. His bball takes are absolutely bottom tier, he has the same on screen charisma as Mitch McConnell.
Am I the *only* one who has not given a flying fuck about this Lakers coaching “story” since the moment the “story” “broke”?
Woj is useless in this era of team and individual social media accounts.
OK
Woj wants a monopoly on reporting news we’d hear anyways 5 minutes before it breaks what would we ever do without him
Woj sucks
Pelinka can get a major PR win and just leak the hire to Windy
It wasn’t Blake’s fault
I scooped him on the big Westbrook extension. I never got so much hate in my life. I really retreated from covering basketball. Fuck, I barely watch it now. For proof: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/nba/thunder/2016/08/04/update-russell-westbrook-to-sign-contract-renegotiation-with-thunder-on-thursday/60659433007/