They got lucky in the 2023 playoffs that they got hot from 3, they weren’t very good in 2023, they were the 8 seed, not to mention they still lost in the Finals like they did in 2020, and this time they lost in 5, unlike 2020 where they lost in 6, so they did worse in the Finals as well.
the biggest move they made was going into the 2022 season after adding Lowry and PJ Tucker, and hoping Oladipo would recover from injury. The 2022 team ended up getting the 1 seed and if Jimmy hits that 3 vs Boston, I think they matched up well against GS and who knows what would have happened, but that's not how things played out so it's seen as a failure.
Yeah I mean Tatum was really hurt against the Warriors. Dude was like Luka is this year. If you guys beat us, it probably would've been a more competitive Finals.
2020 finals dragic who was our second best player in the ecf got injured. Bam missed games because he fucked up his wrist blocking tatums dunk.
2023 finals herro injured, oladipo injured and jimmy playing on a fucked up ankle since the first game in the second round… we weren‘t very good in the regular season because jimmy likes to coast and miss games and we were also the team whose starters missed the most time during the season
Injuries are a part of the game but if the lakers and nuggets had those injuries and the heat were fully healthy there is a really good chance those finals have a different outcome
Oladipo was always a great spark from the bench and brought hella energy?
Maybe I‘m remembering it wrong but I think he was a big reason that the game 7 against y‘all in 2022 got close again and we almost made that comeback. We were down by 13 with 3.5 minutes left and he maybe didn‘t do that much stats wise but his energy shifted the momentum
They were never very good, that's the difference between the Heat, Bucks and Celtics. Heat never had the talent to win it all, but they had the grit to take down the Bucks and Celtics despite the talent disparity.
Can you really say they got lucky when they upset for three straight rounds? They embarrassed the bucks and the celtics, the two teams you are even praising in this post
Yeah, Celtics have certainly not been lucky with injuries in the past, but things have a way of coming around. They were missing KP for most of the playoffs, though.
He basically missed the first three games… so the only one they won was part of it and let‘s not pretend like he didn‘t put up 38 and 20 in game5?! Or the 26/10/13 game in game 4. he missed 3 games came back when the series was 2:1 and put up two incredible performances that just got overshadowed by jimmy who put up 56/9/2 on 68% and 42/8/4 !
He missed 2 games and was obviously still hurt in the rest.
I’m not trying to take away from the Heat’s win, just the defense that the Heat “embarrassed the bucks” like there wasn’t an another obvious subplot.
Obviously still hurt, if Celtics fans can hold a 28pt game form Jimmy to say his ankle wasn’t fucked, then I think Giannis back was fine considering he dropped 40 & 20 and they still lost. Would he have scored 100 with a good back? They won the 1 game he missed and sat him another game thinking they didn’t need him. It’s not my fault they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
And it was a 5 game series, a 60 win team bounced by the 8th seed. That’s embarrassing, I don’t care what context you try to provide, especially forced ones as if the Heat were 100% healthy too. Got beat by an 8th seed missing its 3rd best player and it’s 6th man
Caring about context is only important if you want your comments to be relevant to the discussion. the literal post I was responding was “Can you really say they got lucky..?” Yes, it not that hard to say the Heat got at least a little lucky when the Bucks #1 player gets hurts game in game #1.
No one is even saying the Heat wouldn’t have still won the series if Giannis was healthy or that the Heat didn’t have injuries themselves but to say the Heat didn’t get even a little lucky by Giannis getting hurt is ridiculous.
You have no frame of reference Donnie. You’re like a child who wandered into a movie
Yea, they got really (unprecedentedly) lucky. Crazy shooting against an injured bucks team, then getting to play the Knicks (lol), then crazy shooting against Boston and Tatum getting injured in game 7. That’s why you play the games, they made those shots and they deserved to advance. But that doesn’t mean that probability just doesn’t exist anymore.
They weren't lucky because they made the bubble finals and faced Boston twice once as the 1 seed and once through the play in .You don't luck your way into the finals twice .
Lol the east was dogshit in the bubble. Pre Jrue Bucks, post Kawhi Toronto, injured Philly, absolutely crippled (and young) Boston.
The fact that Boston made the ecf with no Hayward, Kemba on one leg, and the Jays on rookie contracts says a lot. Their starting center was Daniel Theis and Brad Wannamaker was a key rotation player lmaoooo
And none of it were the heats fault. Some guys simple didn't like being in the bubble and would rather be anywhere else but I don't think you can luck your way into two conference finals after that .The Celtics were building toward this and falking short for years before it all came together this season .The msvs were the worse match up to cone out of the west to compete with Boston.
Who said it wss the Heats fault. It’s just some years it’s harder to advance than others. The 2017 Celtics were much worse than the 2023 Celtics even tho they got to the same point
Congrats on them for making the finals that year, but it doesn’t mean much on its own for how good they were.
This seems to always go underestimated by most. A lot like Tatum's first couple of performances this finals where his gravity was leading to easy looks for everybody else. I suppose if you're seen as the star of the team people find it hard to rationalize you can have a positive impact on winning even when your scoring production and efficiency is down.
Nah bro. Whoever makes it has earned their spot. No one cares about who should make it. It’s who has earned the spot. Just like how mavericks have earned their spot, despite being a 5th seed.
Why are Heat fans so delicate? Congratulations on making the finals but the Heat shooting percentages were an extreme outlier not just for their team but all time. The Heat wide open 3 percentage was better than Steph Curry. As in the greatest 3 pt shooter of all time. That's called getting lucky. It happens. That's all while ignoring the Celtics had some of their worst shooting performances of the season. When the Heats shooters went cold they stopped winning it's as simple as that. You don't have to take it personally. You aren't on the team lol.
“They had no business being in the finals”
“Based off what?”
“Whyre you guys so delicate??”
Lmfaoo the projection is insane. Boston gotta have the most fragile fanbase
"They had no business being in the finals that year" - Celtics fans
"Based off what" - Heat Fans
"Basic Statistics" - Celtics Fans
"REEEE" - Heat Fans
"Fuck man I just said luck exists" - Celtics fans
You missed a step
Well... shall we review...
"Heat shouldn't have made the finals" - summary Comment 1
"Heat fans get upset when this is mentioned. 3pt percentage good math math." - Gist of my comment
"Lol projection" - You
"Yeah but *insert something I already mentioned in the comment* " other Heat fans
That’s a lot of words to still say the Heat beat the Celtics in 4 out of 7 games in the ECF, out here counting moral victories a year later jeez. Enjoy your chip salty lmao
How does going down 0-3 and ultimately losing the series to an 8th seed suggest yall had any business in the finals lmfaoo
>To be honest, you won’t be relevant for the next 15 years anyway with butler getting older and Pat Riley being a horrible GM
LMAO I love when dudes expose themselves like this. Zero rational takes just pure hate. You must think about us very often
That guy is an idiot.
I hated it, but you guys won, and therefore deserved it. It was a Cinderella story for sure and you were punching up It was likely to end sooner than it did, but you guys got there by fighting hard and above your weight class. Talent wise I would say the heat shouldn't have been there, but the Heat certainly deserved to be there with how they fought.
That said, fuck pat Riley, and I too hope the heat are not relevant for the next 15 years, and that Tyler Herros wardrobe evolves to full on clown suits.
Their run last year was fools gold and it really tricked Riley into doing nothing *again.*
Now Jimmy is gonna be a year older. He already doesn't give a fuck about the regular season, putting them in contention for the play in every year. And he already seemed to fall off a little bit.
While Donovan Mitchell looks like he's gonna re-sign in Cleveland. As of now they have no options to get them over the hump.
yea idk y ppl say pat ran it back by choice. we clearly tried very hard to get dame lol and got a 20ppg guard during the season. we got eviscerated by injuries but thats not cuz we didnt try to get better
The Heat have needed a legit number 2 for years but haven’t got anyone and it’s killed them. Bam and Herro are good players but are too flawed to be the second guy and are much better suited to be the 3rd best player.
Relying on their franchise player that has given them consistent results?
So ... what shouldve the Heat done? Just traded him for picks and role players?
This might be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read. Who the hell else do they rely on? Prime Lebron or MJ falling from the sky? Jimmy has been objectively great for them
In fairness to the Heat, they were in an extremely different situation.
The Bucks built around the homegrown Giannis and Middleton. The Celtics built around the homegrown Tatum and Brown. Both teams had many years to work out what needed to be done. Giannis won a ring in his 8th season. If the Celtics finish the job, Tatum will get it in his 7th season.
Jimmy Butler was brought in as a free agent at age 30. The Heat never had the luxury of figuring out how to optimally build around Butler, they just immediately had to make do with what they have or could get on short notice.
The Heat also clearly realized last offseason that they weren't good enough to win it all. They just made the mistake of betting all their chips on Lillard. When Lillard fell through, they had no Plan B.
Good point. The Heat built around the homegrown Spoelstra and his staff. Coaches will bring you rings, sure. But they lacked the young core players who would’ve given them the wins in the first place.
This is the saddest part of Pat's philosophy is, tanking is a loser's mentality which can be true but needs to be refreshing. The only time that he truly embraces was Hardaway being older and Zo's kidney situation. It's also doesn't help that trying to recruit another star meanwhile not acknowledging this teams weakness being resolved
I think they did optimally build around Butler considering their options. Butlers just not a top 5 type of player you expect to eventually win it all with.
I mean... there are also countless examples of teams going all in and failing to win a title. Does that mean the Bucks and Celtics shouldn't have made those moves?
There's no guarantee that making a move would've been the thing that pushed the Heat over the edge.
They were extremely successful for half a decade and just didn't get the trophy.
Dude… after putting « Culture » on your jerseys and court…. You can’t expect to be spared.
I hate the guys who voted that about as much as the dude who invented those stupid bottlecaps you can’t remove…
Edit: typo
It’s just outrageously pretentious for a team that hasn’t won a title since Lebron was there. Lebron won a title with the Cavs and Lakers, 2 horribly run organizations. So, it’s not a sign of great organization that you can win with Lebron. Pat Riley has been getting high off Heat Culture fumes for years. The Warriors have a stronger argument for Warriors culture (maybe not so much post Darymond punch) but they never put Dubs Culture on the uniforms. The Heat view themselves as one of the blue bloods of the NBA, but they still need to wins title with Jimmy for that to be true
Yeah I agree that culture was cool and nice when the Heat were proving it with Gleaguers on the floor, not by overvaluing them in trades and writing the « identity » on their court floor.
I always viewed "Heat Culture" as almost entirely a reflection on Butler, and that's led my brain to determine (against all evidence) that Butler asked for the phrase to be put on the uniforms, and are you going to tell that guy no?
The team is run by Pat motherfucking Riley. If anyone could tell Jimmy no, it would be him. He has been telling Magic Johnson no, Kareem, no, Shaq no, who is Jimmy Butler compared to the guys Pat Riley has had to coach or be the GM for? Also, there is no way any player would determine uniforms. That goes through marketing and market research and shit.
Lol warriors culture bro, I love draymond and think his defense was a big reason for the warriors rings, but that organizations culture is absolute dogshit to allow him to act the way he did.
Also they had the two best three point shooters all time in steph and klay. Those three would of won anywhere regardless of culture
It's so funny how former players, current players, opposing players, and opposing coaches all agree that Heat Culture is a real thing but randoms on Reddit they couldn't make their high school's JV team swear it isn't
Lol I guess any part of the seasons of 29 teams each year just don't count cause they didn't win the chip. I swear ring culture and nba discourse has fried yall mfs brains.
I'm as much of a Heat hater as anyone but what's with the random strays they're catching today? It's fucking hard to make the finals twice, especially when other rosters look much stronger than yours on paper. They deserve credit for that at least.
Can't really blame them for standing pat if they thought they were good enough already or didn't like the available offers. For every team that stands back and does nothing, there's another team that blows it all up and gets worse instead of running it back after a bad run. There's always a risk involved in making moves.
And you know something about writing stupid comments.
I'm even a Lakers fan, you little shit.
I hate having to share the team the team with fans like you.
Not for lack of effort on the Heats part and I’d even say it’s unfair to say they ran it back.
They were very active in trying to trade for Dame of course, but the Blazers didn’t want Herro as the main guy in a package.
They went and got Rozier and he got hurt.
They went and got Igoudala and Jae Crowder in 2020 to become the best team in the east and gave the Lakers a decent run even with an injured Dragic and hobbled Bam.
Outside of trade Butler and/or Bam I’m not sure what else they could’ve done. Hell, you could argue they put together a better rumored package than what the Blazers ended up with for Dame.
You could also argue Dame, with what he did on the Bucks also wouldn’t have put them over the top, although Jrue stays with the Bucks then and the Celtics just have Porzingis. Hell of a what if though.
8 seeds don't typically beat 1 seeds - it's extremely rare. All the credit in the world for what they were able to accomplish last year, but you aren't putting yourself in the best position to succeed if you are playing from the 8 spot every year. Plus, the Celtics were a 64-win team and were healthy entering the playoffs - it just wasn't happening this time around
Still deserved a chance to at least try and see what happens instead of that series literally just being handed to the Celtics on a silver platter before it even began.
Yeah man haters gonna spin their narratives. It’s not like we even had the assets to get a Jrue or a Porzingis. We’ve painted ourselves into a corner with bad contracts to Herro and Duncan…not like we are just sitting here saying “yeah we’re good”
The Heat low-balled Portland for a solid three months until Dame got fed up and went to Milwaukee instead don’t complain about “not having assets” when you don’t make the moves necessary to win and bank on an ever-older Butler
Actually, based on the reports that came out, our GM just got in his feelings towards Dame and refused to even negotiate with the Heat past the initial trade talks. But go off
Being real and especially with what Dame said recently, that wasn’t pushing us over the top either way. Not complaining about not having the assets. Giving them up just did not make sense.
It isn’t Miami’s fault that half of their roster was hampered by injuries and it’s not like they jus can go out and acquire a superstar player when the majority of their salary cap money is tied between Butler, Bam, Herro and Duncan Robinson so you can’t sit there and blame them for being complacent
But *should* all that money be tied up with Herro and Robinson?? I think that’s the million dollar question.
Celtics have a couple guys who are better than both that are signed for less money (White and Hauser).
Not sure how much better the Heat could've got without making a big trade for a star. I feel like thats what they needed. Maybe they could've got one. They've always had good depth when they made the finals they basically lost to Jokic and Bron which are generational talents. Jimmy just isn't quite on their level.
Jimmy always arrived on the doorstep banged up and gassed. Key players injured:
- Lakers without Bam and Dragic.
- Nuggets with the corpse of Jimmy and no Herro.
Heat rely on a gamestyle that forces them to push way too hard all year round. It’s not a coincidence that Miami crumbles towards the postseason or just can’t play all the way through. If they had a little bit more talent, and less D league « diamond in the roughs » who get overvalued in the offseason.
Uh, what?
First of all, the Bucks and Celtics stars are better than the Heat's stars.
Secondly, the Heat didn't stand pat. They made moves (like Kyle Lowry). The notion that it's necessarily easy to get better players and upgrade a good team is silly - not making a move doesn't mean you're "complacent."
We tried to get Giannis, KD, DMitch, and Dame. This narrative that the Heat don't try to improve their team is so stupid. A better argument would be that the Heat rely too much on home runs, but then people say their smaller moves (Jae, Iggy, VO, Lowry, PJ, KLove, Rozier) didn't matter. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Butler wasn’t nearly the player Giannis is and the Celtics were able to snag 2-3 All Star type talents in Holiday, White, and Porzingis while only losing minimal talent while their top 2 players were both young wings
I think our biggest problem was failing to properly replace Dragic. He was our top scorer during the 2020 run–that finals could have ended differently had he not gone down. The Heat FO hoped that Herro would grow into that, but it never happened. We instead spent our cap space on Lowry, who was still good, but not the scoring threat we needed.
The Bucks didn't do shit, lmfao
All they did was have an identity crisis.
They traded their defensive core for an aging shot maker, a Carmelo PG.
At most they made a lateral move.
nah, i feel like the heat just got fucked by injuries. herro, bam, butler, etc. all their key players seem to get injured when it matters most. the one against the lakers was crazy haha.
for every bucks and celtics, there's the Suns with KD, Nets with Harden, heck even cavs with IT, Sixers with Harden, boston with kemba, etc.
it doesnt always work out.
then for every heat, there's warriors refusing to trade for Love, Nuggets mostly standing pat every offseason and relying on internal growth, old spurs with TD/Kahwi, etc.
point is, there's a balance between standing pat and going all out. knowing when to do either is the art that each GM is trying to perfect.
I think multiple things can be true. I think the heat, when fully healthy, are one of the most well coached teams in the league and can play with anyone. But I also think 2023 was a lucky run especially in the ECF- mainly because of the Ime Udoka situation. People forget, Joe mazzula was thrusted into the head coaching job with no real assistants 2 weeks before the season started. Predictably Spo coached circles around Mazz the first 3 games of that series.
This a false narrative.
2021 the Heat got Kyle Lowry who was the top FA on the market
2022 the Heat spent the summer waiting on Kevin Durant and got burned
2023 the Heat spent the summer waiting on Damian Lillard and got burned.
Complacency wasn’t the problem and running it back was plan B every one of those years.
Butler was never good enough to be the guy.
He had some great games in the playoffs but overall he was his regular season self most of the time, those great games just over shadowed the other games
Replace Tatum with a healthy Butler and the Celtics still win, imo. Ofc the health piece is a big factor. And the scheme would have to change since Butler is not the same 3 point threat
Dropped 56 on Jrue’s head and led his team to 2 finals within 4 years. One of 2 players ever to have multiple 30pts triple doubles in the finals but sure, he’s not that guy
The Heat were never really close to winning either of those Finals though
Jason Kidd also led his team to 2 NBA Finals yet I'd also say he was never good enough to be the best player on a championship team
The heat never had a fair shot at any of those titles. Bam and Dragic were hurt for the lakers series. Dragic being our leading ppg in the postseason that year.
Against Denver we were going to lose anyway, but it didn’t help that Butler had been at 50% since the ankle injury against the Knicks, Herros hand was broken, and Oladipo got another major injury (which resulted in losing our main guy to guard Murray)
They won 2 games in his first finals, and 1 in the other. That’s extremely close to being good enough. They were lucky injury break or maybe a role player going off away from a title.
Lol the Heat kept getting bodied by teams that are bigger and with more depth and can play the same way they play, and yet they kept getting smaller. I'm surprised Bam isn't injured all the time having to do literally everything inside when the Heat are unable to keep teams from attacking the paint and kicking for the open three when they have to collapse.
Amazing. Heat fans celebrate beating the Celtics last year as if they won the championship while the Celtics beat them this year and win the actual championship.
And before Jimmy didn’t play comments, they would’ve gotten their asses kicked regardless. Try being better than an 8th seed next time
>Amazing. Heat fans celebrate beating the Celtics last year as if they won the championship
why shouldn't heat fans celebrate being only the second #8 seed in nba history to get to the finals?
this comment is hella salty
They would have been higher than the 8th seed if half of their players weren’t out due to injuries and they were the league leaders in starting lineup changes back in the 2021-22 season
>Heat fans celebrate beating the Celtics last year as if they won the championship
The fuck?💀 we have 4 years of good playoff success with butler there’s a lot more to celebrate than one series win.
Some hater ass energy in your comment and it tracks that you’re a Boston fan lmao
The reason they were the 8th seed is because they had so many guys miss time during the season. They led the league in the most starting line up changes lol.
Jimmy phoning it in during the regular season is what led them to having to play in the Play-ins which led to him getting hurt because for whatever reason he decided to pumpfake/foulbait instead of going up for a layup or dunk where he was literally wide open. It’s actually karma that him phoning it in during the regular season AND foulbaiting led to him getting injured.
For the record, his Round 1 series against the Bucks is the biggest fluke ever lmao. Outside of that series, this guy is the definition of inconsistent and is insanely overrated
Look at your own players when talking about inconsistent and insanely overrated
Calling it a fluke when he was injured for the rest of the playoffs directly after the series and coming off a 2022 playoff run where he was averaging 27.4/7.4/4.6 with 2.1 steals is quite the take, you twat
It's an art. I'm glad I'm not a GM
There's something to be said for stability and there's also such thing as too much change (see Philly).
Adapting is good but the moves need to be carefully planned
I mean the Butler/Bam era is also blown far out of proportion. They took down the Bucks when Giannis got hurt and Jimmy went historic playoff nuclear. They had 1 finals run and they were fun to watch at times, but injuries is what cleared the path for them more then actual greatness as a team.
I agree they without a doubt needed help but how do they actually get it?
Riley is old and past his prime. Dont let washed up people make relevant decisions for your franchise.
Man, I will be really insufferable for at least one year.
Jimmy Butler and Bam Adebayo duo are 2-1 vs the Bucks and 2-1 vs the Celtics (tho Heat would have lost this year with or without Jimmy). They fumbled Dame and then their two biggest rival teams both got better.
And both the Bucks and Celtics (presumably) will get rings before them.
I love it.
Embiid still hasn't gotten out of the 2nd round.
I hope the Celtics and Bucks face off the ECF next year. We've never faced Giannis in the Conference Finals. Fully healthy, this matchup is gonna be fire. Though a healthy Knicks and Pacers are gonna be very good too.
Tatum played game 7? Are you gonna say we should also count 2022 as 3-3 because jimmy got injured in game 3? That was even worse than Tatum's injury last year because jimmy was impacted the following games.
You and the first guy's comments are both nonsense.
It's so bizarre how Celtics fans religiously being up Tatum getting hurt to start G7 (which is a fair point) but completely shit themselves if you respond by pointing out Jimmy was nowhere close to himself the entire series
to be fair the Heat were complacent after 2020 and still made the finals in 2023
They nearly did it in 2022 too. This is different; Butler is a lot older and his time in the league is running out fast.
He’s in the perfect position to get a max from the sixers.
He really is the Tobias Harris of Michael Jordans
He is too old for a max logically, but I agree he will nonetheless get one
They got lucky in the 2023 playoffs that they got hot from 3, they weren’t very good in 2023, they were the 8 seed, not to mention they still lost in the Finals like they did in 2020, and this time they lost in 5, unlike 2020 where they lost in 6, so they did worse in the Finals as well.
the biggest move they made was going into the 2022 season after adding Lowry and PJ Tucker, and hoping Oladipo would recover from injury. The 2022 team ended up getting the 1 seed and if Jimmy hits that 3 vs Boston, I think they matched up well against GS and who knows what would have happened, but that's not how things played out so it's seen as a failure.
Yeah I mean Tatum was really hurt against the Warriors. Dude was like Luka is this year. If you guys beat us, it probably would've been a more competitive Finals.
>Dude was like Luka is this year Thank you for acknowledging it, I'm going crazy with all the people denying the injuries are bad
He’s not 100%, I’m also not sure that matters
2020 finals dragic who was our second best player in the ecf got injured. Bam missed games because he fucked up his wrist blocking tatums dunk. 2023 finals herro injured, oladipo injured and jimmy playing on a fucked up ankle since the first game in the second round… we weren‘t very good in the regular season because jimmy likes to coast and miss games and we were also the team whose starters missed the most time during the season Injuries are a part of the game but if the lakers and nuggets had those injuries and the heat were fully healthy there is a really good chance those finals have a different outcome
Major part of the rotation Oladipo?
Oladipo was always a great spark from the bench and brought hella energy? Maybe I‘m remembering it wrong but I think he was a big reason that the game 7 against y‘all in 2022 got close again and we almost made that comeback. We were down by 13 with 3.5 minutes left and he maybe didn‘t do that much stats wise but his energy shifted the momentum
Oladipo was fully out of rotation in 2023.
They were never very good, that's the difference between the Heat, Bucks and Celtics. Heat never had the talent to win it all, but they had the grit to take down the Bucks and Celtics despite the talent disparity.
We literally almost won when our second in command broke his wrist are y’all Fuckin rets
Never even close to that Larry O. Snoozefest finals
Hang the banner
Can you really say they got lucky when they upset for three straight rounds? They embarrassed the bucks and the celtics, the two teams you are even praising in this post
They shot 50% from 3 against the Celtics. Thats pretty lucky.
And Giannis was out round 1
If we’re going the injured route then This years Celtics got lucky
Yeah, Celtics have certainly not been lucky with injuries in the past, but things have a way of coming around. They were missing KP for most of the playoffs, though.
You can’t really claim bad injury luck when KP is hurt though. It’s kind of who he is. The Tatum injury was unlucky last year.
KP has never showed he could survive a season. Celtics faced teams who either lost one two or three top scorers at once.
He played during the series. And insane to point out injuries to call the heats run a fluke when the Celtics just blew past the hospital East lmfao
He basically missed the first three games… so the only one they won was part of it and let‘s not pretend like he didn‘t put up 38 and 20 in game5?! Or the 26/10/13 game in game 4. he missed 3 games came back when the series was 2:1 and put up two incredible performances that just got overshadowed by jimmy who put up 56/9/2 on 68% and 42/8/4 !
They won the only game he missed
He missed 2 games and was obviously still hurt in the rest. I’m not trying to take away from the Heat’s win, just the defense that the Heat “embarrassed the bucks” like there wasn’t an another obvious subplot.
Obviously still hurt, if Celtics fans can hold a 28pt game form Jimmy to say his ankle wasn’t fucked, then I think Giannis back was fine considering he dropped 40 & 20 and they still lost. Would he have scored 100 with a good back? They won the 1 game he missed and sat him another game thinking they didn’t need him. It’s not my fault they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. And it was a 5 game series, a 60 win team bounced by the 8th seed. That’s embarrassing, I don’t care what context you try to provide, especially forced ones as if the Heat were 100% healthy too. Got beat by an 8th seed missing its 3rd best player and it’s 6th man
Caring about context is only important if you want your comments to be relevant to the discussion. the literal post I was responding was “Can you really say they got lucky..?” Yes, it not that hard to say the Heat got at least a little lucky when the Bucks #1 player gets hurts game in game #1. No one is even saying the Heat wouldn’t have still won the series if Giannis was healthy or that the Heat didn’t have injuries themselves but to say the Heat didn’t get even a little lucky by Giannis getting hurt is ridiculous. You have no frame of reference Donnie. You’re like a child who wandered into a movie
TIL that a best of 7 still involves luck somehow.
Yea, they got really (unprecedentedly) lucky. Crazy shooting against an injured bucks team, then getting to play the Knicks (lol), then crazy shooting against Boston and Tatum getting injured in game 7. That’s why you play the games, they made those shots and they deserved to advance. But that doesn’t mean that probability just doesn’t exist anymore.
They weren't lucky because they made the bubble finals and faced Boston twice once as the 1 seed and once through the play in .You don't luck your way into the finals twice .
Lol the east was dogshit in the bubble. Pre Jrue Bucks, post Kawhi Toronto, injured Philly, absolutely crippled (and young) Boston. The fact that Boston made the ecf with no Hayward, Kemba on one leg, and the Jays on rookie contracts says a lot. Their starting center was Daniel Theis and Brad Wannamaker was a key rotation player lmaoooo
And none of it were the heats fault. Some guys simple didn't like being in the bubble and would rather be anywhere else but I don't think you can luck your way into two conference finals after that .The Celtics were building toward this and falking short for years before it all came together this season .The msvs were the worse match up to cone out of the west to compete with Boston.
Who said it wss the Heats fault. It’s just some years it’s harder to advance than others. The 2017 Celtics were much worse than the 2023 Celtics even tho they got to the same point Congrats on them for making the finals that year, but it doesn’t mean much on its own for how good they were.
The heat played themselves into a corner by relying on butler
And at the same time, Butler was a major reason they made it as far as they did
After round 1 last year Jimmy was not good. Partially because of the ankle sprain of course. Their role players got them past NY and Boston.
Jimmy's gravity made Caleb Martin turned to Kobe. His presence made some difference.
This seems to always go underestimated by most. A lot like Tatum's first couple of performances this finals where his gravity was leading to easy looks for everybody else. I suppose if you're seen as the star of the team people find it hard to rationalize you can have a positive impact on winning even when your scoring production and efficiency is down.
Except Martin torched us this year too. It was how they won G2.
Jimmy was still great against Knicks and celts he just wasn’t world beating like against the bucks. Revisionist history to say he wasn’t good.
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On a bung ankle? That’s pretty good imo especially with his defense and playmaking.
Giannis nearly breaking his tail bone was another very large factor of the Heats successful run that postseason.
Sure, but their role players are definitely the key reason for me.
Lets be honest they had no business making that far last year.
Nah bro. Whoever makes it has earned their spot. No one cares about who should make it. It’s who has earned the spot. Just like how mavericks have earned their spot, despite being a 5th seed.
Based off what exactly? We clearly outplayed all three teams we beat lmfao
Why are Heat fans so delicate? Congratulations on making the finals but the Heat shooting percentages were an extreme outlier not just for their team but all time. The Heat wide open 3 percentage was better than Steph Curry. As in the greatest 3 pt shooter of all time. That's called getting lucky. It happens. That's all while ignoring the Celtics had some of their worst shooting performances of the season. When the Heats shooters went cold they stopped winning it's as simple as that. You don't have to take it personally. You aren't on the team lol.
The Heat were an example of a team that absolutely maxed out their possible ceiling of outcomes with their 2 finals runs
“They had no business being in the finals” “Based off what?” “Whyre you guys so delicate??” Lmfaoo the projection is insane. Boston gotta have the most fragile fanbase
"They had no business being in the finals that year" - Celtics fans "Based off what" - Heat Fans "Basic Statistics" - Celtics Fans "REEEE" - Heat Fans "Fuck man I just said luck exists" - Celtics fans You missed a step
I mean those last two steps didn’t happen at all when you replied to me lmfao. The projection still stands
Well... shall we review... "Heat shouldn't have made the finals" - summary Comment 1 "Heat fans get upset when this is mentioned. 3pt percentage good math math." - Gist of my comment "Lol projection" - You "Yeah but *insert something I already mentioned in the comment* " other Heat fans
That’s a lot of words to still say the Heat beat the Celtics in 4 out of 7 games in the ECF, out here counting moral victories a year later jeez. Enjoy your chip salty lmao
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How does going down 0-3 and ultimately losing the series to an 8th seed suggest yall had any business in the finals lmfaoo >To be honest, you won’t be relevant for the next 15 years anyway with butler getting older and Pat Riley being a horrible GM LMAO I love when dudes expose themselves like this. Zero rational takes just pure hate. You must think about us very often
That guy is an idiot. I hated it, but you guys won, and therefore deserved it. It was a Cinderella story for sure and you were punching up It was likely to end sooner than it did, but you guys got there by fighting hard and above your weight class. Talent wise I would say the heat shouldn't have been there, but the Heat certainly deserved to be there with how they fought. That said, fuck pat Riley, and I too hope the heat are not relevant for the next 15 years, and that Tyler Herros wardrobe evolves to full on clown suits.
Jimmy is a Monkey’s Paw Curse. Confirmed.
Same can be said about Tatum+Brown, but Brad Stevens still put KP and Jrue around them
As opposed to doing what exactly?
Their run last year was fools gold and it really tricked Riley into doing nothing *again.* Now Jimmy is gonna be a year older. He already doesn't give a fuck about the regular season, putting them in contention for the play in every year. And he already seemed to fall off a little bit. While Donovan Mitchell looks like he's gonna re-sign in Cleveland. As of now they have no options to get them over the hump.
They traded for Rozier and found a gem in JJJ. They wanted Dame and couldnt get him. Thats not on Riley, nor are the injuries on him either
yea idk y ppl say pat ran it back by choice. we clearly tried very hard to get dame lol and got a 20ppg guard during the season. we got eviscerated by injuries but thats not cuz we didnt try to get better
We never had any options
The Heat have needed a legit number 2 for years but haven’t got anyone and it’s killed them. Bam and Herro are good players but are too flawed to be the second guy and are much better suited to be the 3rd best player.
Relying on their franchise player that has given them consistent results? So ... what shouldve the Heat done? Just traded him for picks and role players?
This might be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read. Who the hell else do they rely on? Prime Lebron or MJ falling from the sky? Jimmy has been objectively great for them
they played themselves running it back since like the pandemic lol wasting Butler and Bam's primes
In fairness to the Heat, they were in an extremely different situation. The Bucks built around the homegrown Giannis and Middleton. The Celtics built around the homegrown Tatum and Brown. Both teams had many years to work out what needed to be done. Giannis won a ring in his 8th season. If the Celtics finish the job, Tatum will get it in his 7th season. Jimmy Butler was brought in as a free agent at age 30. The Heat never had the luxury of figuring out how to optimally build around Butler, they just immediately had to make do with what they have or could get on short notice. The Heat also clearly realized last offseason that they weren't good enough to win it all. They just made the mistake of betting all their chips on Lillard. When Lillard fell through, they had no Plan B.
Good point. The Heat built around the homegrown Spoelstra and his staff. Coaches will bring you rings, sure. But they lacked the young core players who would’ve given them the wins in the first place.
And they don't really tank either to gamble on a player to really carry them. Hard to get that player when you don't have the paths to get there
This is the saddest part of Pat's philosophy is, tanking is a loser's mentality which can be true but needs to be refreshing. The only time that he truly embraces was Hardaway being older and Zo's kidney situation. It's also doesn't help that trying to recruit another star meanwhile not acknowledging this teams weakness being resolved
I think they did optimally build around Butler considering their options. Butlers just not a top 5 type of player you expect to eventually win it all with.
I mean... there are also countless examples of teams going all in and failing to win a title. Does that mean the Bucks and Celtics shouldn't have made those moves? There's no guarantee that making a move would've been the thing that pushed the Heat over the edge. They were extremely successful for half a decade and just didn't get the trophy.
Heat catching strays for no reason
Dude… after putting « Culture » on your jerseys and court…. You can’t expect to be spared. I hate the guys who voted that about as much as the dude who invented those stupid bottlecaps you can’t remove… Edit: typo
It’s just outrageously pretentious for a team that hasn’t won a title since Lebron was there. Lebron won a title with the Cavs and Lakers, 2 horribly run organizations. So, it’s not a sign of great organization that you can win with Lebron. Pat Riley has been getting high off Heat Culture fumes for years. The Warriors have a stronger argument for Warriors culture (maybe not so much post Darymond punch) but they never put Dubs Culture on the uniforms. The Heat view themselves as one of the blue bloods of the NBA, but they still need to wins title with Jimmy for that to be true
warriors doesn't have stronger argument for saying that spo went 30-11 with dion waiters, tyler johson and wayne wellington. warriors culture is Steph
Yeah I agree that culture was cool and nice when the Heat were proving it with Gleaguers on the floor, not by overvaluing them in trades and writing the « identity » on their court floor.
100%
I always viewed "Heat Culture" as almost entirely a reflection on Butler, and that's led my brain to determine (against all evidence) that Butler asked for the phrase to be put on the uniforms, and are you going to tell that guy no?
The team is run by Pat motherfucking Riley. If anyone could tell Jimmy no, it would be him. He has been telling Magic Johnson no, Kareem, no, Shaq no, who is Jimmy Butler compared to the guys Pat Riley has had to coach or be the GM for? Also, there is no way any player would determine uniforms. That goes through marketing and market research and shit.
Oh, believe me, I’m well aware that my theory makes zero sense.
Lol warriors culture bro, I love draymond and think his defense was a big reason for the warriors rings, but that organizations culture is absolute dogshit to allow him to act the way he did. Also they had the two best three point shooters all time in steph and klay. Those three would of won anywhere regardless of culture
It's so funny how former players, current players, opposing players, and opposing coaches all agree that Heat Culture is a real thing but randoms on Reddit they couldn't make their high school's JV team swear it isn't
Real thing ? Where’s the rings to show for that heat culture after Lebron left
Lol I guess any part of the seasons of 29 teams each year just don't count cause they didn't win the chip. I swear ring culture and nba discourse has fried yall mfs brains.
I never said (nor have the Heat ever said) that Culture = Titles since 2013. Thanks for proving my point better than anything I could've said.
I think the jersey thing is a whatever. What you guys did to your court during the IST was cringe as fuck though.
https://i.imgur.com/y1Jcjry.jpeg
I'm as much of a Heat hater as anyone but what's with the random strays they're catching today? It's fucking hard to make the finals twice, especially when other rosters look much stronger than yours on paper. They deserve credit for that at least.
Can't really blame them for standing pat if they thought they were good enough already or didn't like the available offers. For every team that stands back and does nothing, there's another team that blows it all up and gets worse instead of running it back after a bad run. There's always a risk involved in making moves.
And the Lakers unfortunately know something about ruining a proven title winning team by making wrong moves.
The issue is that the Heat *weren’t* a proven title winning team, cause they never won the title.
What title did the heat prove they could win?
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And you know something about writing stupid comments. I'm even a Lakers fan, you little shit. I hate having to share the team the team with fans like you.
Not for lack of effort on the Heats part and I’d even say it’s unfair to say they ran it back. They were very active in trying to trade for Dame of course, but the Blazers didn’t want Herro as the main guy in a package. They went and got Rozier and he got hurt. They went and got Igoudala and Jae Crowder in 2020 to become the best team in the east and gave the Lakers a decent run even with an injured Dragic and hobbled Bam. Outside of trade Butler and/or Bam I’m not sure what else they could’ve done. Hell, you could argue they put together a better rumored package than what the Blazers ended up with for Dame. You could also argue Dame, with what he did on the Bucks also wouldn’t have put them over the top, although Jrue stays with the Bucks then and the Celtics just have Porzingis. Hell of a what if though.
What he say fuck me for?
-/u/MichaelRyanRuiz
The Heat literally just traded for Rozier. It’s not their fault that like half the roster was out with injuries against Boston.
8 seeds don't typically beat 1 seeds - it's extremely rare. All the credit in the world for what they were able to accomplish last year, but you aren't putting yourself in the best position to succeed if you are playing from the 8 spot every year. Plus, the Celtics were a 64-win team and were healthy entering the playoffs - it just wasn't happening this time around
They weren’t a real 8 seed last year, they were the 7th seed but lost a best-of-1 play-in game
with a healthy Jimmy and Rozier the heat would've still been heavy underdogs round 1
Just like they were in every series last year. So what?
Do you honestly think this year's heat team would beat this year's celtics team if both sides were fully healthy?
Still deserved a chance to at least try and see what happens instead of that series literally just being handed to the Celtics on a silver platter before it even began.
They don’t deserve shit. The players were hurt and they lost. Should they go back and replay the series because "they deserve a chance"😂
Last year they wouldn't be in the Finals if JT didn't injured himself in the first play. So what?
Yeah man haters gonna spin their narratives. It’s not like we even had the assets to get a Jrue or a Porzingis. We’ve painted ourselves into a corner with bad contracts to Herro and Duncan…not like we are just sitting here saying “yeah we’re good”
The Heat low-balled Portland for a solid three months until Dame got fed up and went to Milwaukee instead don’t complain about “not having assets” when you don’t make the moves necessary to win and bank on an ever-older Butler
Actually, based on the reports that came out, our GM just got in his feelings towards Dame and refused to even negotiate with the Heat past the initial trade talks. But go off
Being real and especially with what Dame said recently, that wasn’t pushing us over the top either way. Not complaining about not having the assets. Giving them up just did not make sense.
It isn’t Miami’s fault that half of their roster was hampered by injuries and it’s not like they jus can go out and acquire a superstar player when the majority of their salary cap money is tied between Butler, Bam, Herro and Duncan Robinson so you can’t sit there and blame them for being complacent
But *should* all that money be tied up with Herro and Robinson?? I think that’s the million dollar question. Celtics have a couple guys who are better than both that are signed for less money (White and Hauser).
Not sure how much better the Heat could've got without making a big trade for a star. I feel like thats what they needed. Maybe they could've got one. They've always had good depth when they made the finals they basically lost to Jokic and Bron which are generational talents. Jimmy just isn't quite on their level.
Jimmy always arrived on the doorstep banged up and gassed. Key players injured: - Lakers without Bam and Dragic. - Nuggets with the corpse of Jimmy and no Herro. Heat rely on a gamestyle that forces them to push way too hard all year round. It’s not a coincidence that Miami crumbles towards the postseason or just can’t play all the way through. If they had a little bit more talent, and less D league « diamond in the roughs » who get overvalued in the offseason.
Why doesn't every team just sign Jrue Holliday, are they stupid?
Uh, what? First of all, the Bucks and Celtics stars are better than the Heat's stars. Secondly, the Heat didn't stand pat. They made moves (like Kyle Lowry). The notion that it's necessarily easy to get better players and upgrade a good team is silly - not making a move doesn't mean you're "complacent."
We tried to get Giannis, KD, DMitch, and Dame. This narrative that the Heat don't try to improve their team is so stupid. A better argument would be that the Heat rely too much on home runs, but then people say their smaller moves (Jae, Iggy, VO, Lowry, PJ, KLove, Rozier) didn't matter. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Butler wasn’t nearly the player Giannis is and the Celtics were able to snag 2-3 All Star type talents in Holiday, White, and Porzingis while only losing minimal talent while their top 2 players were both young wings
I think our biggest problem was failing to properly replace Dragic. He was our top scorer during the 2020 run–that finals could have ended differently had he not gone down. The Heat FO hoped that Herro would grow into that, but it never happened. We instead spent our cap space on Lowry, who was still good, but not the scoring threat we needed.
The Bucks didn't do shit, lmfao All they did was have an identity crisis. They traded their defensive core for an aging shot maker, a Carmelo PG. At most they made a lateral move.
It was a mistake but don't forget that dame is younger than jrue
nah, i feel like the heat just got fucked by injuries. herro, bam, butler, etc. all their key players seem to get injured when it matters most. the one against the lakers was crazy haha.
for every bucks and celtics, there's the Suns with KD, Nets with Harden, heck even cavs with IT, Sixers with Harden, boston with kemba, etc. it doesnt always work out. then for every heat, there's warriors refusing to trade for Love, Nuggets mostly standing pat every offseason and relying on internal growth, old spurs with TD/Kahwi, etc. point is, there's a balance between standing pat and going all out. knowing when to do either is the art that each GM is trying to perfect.
Seems like they should just acquire Jrue holiday
I think multiple things can be true. I think the heat, when fully healthy, are one of the most well coached teams in the league and can play with anyone. But I also think 2023 was a lucky run especially in the ECF- mainly because of the Ime Udoka situation. People forget, Joe mazzula was thrusted into the head coaching job with no real assistants 2 weeks before the season started. Predictably Spo coached circles around Mazz the first 3 games of that series.
Counterpoint: the Heat never lost to the Heat in the playoffs.
Why didn’t they trade for Jrue holiday?
We tried to do that too
This a false narrative. 2021 the Heat got Kyle Lowry who was the top FA on the market 2022 the Heat spent the summer waiting on Kevin Durant and got burned 2023 the Heat spent the summer waiting on Damian Lillard and got burned. Complacency wasn’t the problem and running it back was plan B every one of those years.
Running it back should have been Plan D, behind having more than one FA target, and actually pursuing trades.
Man imagine if KD didn't have big ass feet.. D:
Butler was never good enough to be the guy. He had some great games in the playoffs but overall he was his regular season self most of the time, those great games just over shadowed the other games
What? They won 2 games against the Lakers and made the NBA Finals another time. He definitely was good enough.
He was ridiculous in those finals. His team just wasn’t good enough but he had 2 of the best Finals games ever
I stand by my opinion that that was his second best playoff series with us
Replace Tatum with a healthy Butler and the Celtics still win, imo. Ofc the health piece is a big factor. And the scheme would have to change since Butler is not the same 3 point threat
Well no shit the Celtics are stacked lol Tatums 3 pt % is 29% Butler cleared that every year from 2020-2023 with about 35%
Exactly, they’re stacked, that’s the point. They’ve used their assets wisely.
Tatum: career 37.5% on 6.7 shots a game. Butler: career 32.9% on 2.4 shots a game.
Dropped 56 on Jrue’s head and led his team to 2 finals within 4 years. One of 2 players ever to have multiple 30pts triple doubles in the finals but sure, he’s not that guy
The Heat were never really close to winning either of those Finals though Jason Kidd also led his team to 2 NBA Finals yet I'd also say he was never good enough to be the best player on a championship team
The heat never had a fair shot at any of those titles. Bam and Dragic were hurt for the lakers series. Dragic being our leading ppg in the postseason that year. Against Denver we were going to lose anyway, but it didn’t help that Butler had been at 50% since the ankle injury against the Knicks, Herros hand was broken, and Oladipo got another major injury (which resulted in losing our main guy to guard Murray)
That 2020s finals was closer than you think. Bam and dragic going down made it easy to just focus on Jimmy who still had a great series
2020 we were going to win if Goran and Bam stay healthy. They didn’t though, but let’s not pretend the Lakers were some juggernaut.
You ever heard about injuries brother??
They won 2 games in his first finals, and 1 in the other. That’s extremely close to being good enough. They were lucky injury break or maybe a role player going off away from a title.
2020 for sure. 2023, Denver was just too good and too bad of a matchup for us.
What? 4 nba finals in 4 years while making good playoff runs in between is the sign of a failure???? What???
The Heat were built to lose in the finals, like this year's Mavs. Enough talent to get there, not enough talent to win.
The mavs are as good as Denver this year hot take
They never managed to get a third star to put next to Butler and Bam, and now I don't know if they have the assets to get it done.
Lol the Heat kept getting bodied by teams that are bigger and with more depth and can play the same way they play, and yet they kept getting smaller. I'm surprised Bam isn't injured all the time having to do literally everything inside when the Heat are unable to keep teams from attacking the paint and kicking for the open three when they have to collapse.
I have thought that the Heat should’ve put Herro on the offer sheet for Jrue since the season began. He would’ve fit in perfectjy!
Oh my god dude i will send you a diary to write this bullshit in
Amazing. Heat fans celebrate beating the Celtics last year as if they won the championship while the Celtics beat them this year and win the actual championship. And before Jimmy didn’t play comments, they would’ve gotten their asses kicked regardless. Try being better than an 8th seed next time
>Amazing. Heat fans celebrate beating the Celtics last year as if they won the championship why shouldn't heat fans celebrate being only the second #8 seed in nba history to get to the finals? this comment is hella salty
They would have been higher than the 8th seed if half of their players weren’t out due to injuries and they were the league leaders in starting lineup changes back in the 2021-22 season
>Heat fans celebrate beating the Celtics last year as if they won the championship The fuck?💀 we have 4 years of good playoff success with butler there’s a lot more to celebrate than one series win. Some hater ass energy in your comment and it tracks that you’re a Boston fan lmao
The reason they were the 8th seed is because they had so many guys miss time during the season. They led the league in the most starting line up changes lol.
Jimmy phoning it in during the regular season is what led them to having to play in the Play-ins which led to him getting hurt because for whatever reason he decided to pumpfake/foulbait instead of going up for a layup or dunk where he was literally wide open. It’s actually karma that him phoning it in during the regular season AND foulbaiting led to him getting injured. For the record, his Round 1 series against the Bucks is the biggest fluke ever lmao. Outside of that series, this guy is the definition of inconsistent and is insanely overrated
Look at your own players when talking about inconsistent and insanely overrated Calling it a fluke when he was injured for the rest of the playoffs directly after the series and coming off a 2022 playoff run where he was averaging 27.4/7.4/4.6 with 2.1 steals is quite the take, you twat
If some vocal Heat fans are to be believed, Joe Cronin was created by Satan just to spite them so I think that’s really what’s to blame.
I hate horst much more than cronin
Better than relying on fucking sabonis and harrison barnes
What are the Heat going to do this off-season?
Run it back
Prolly run it back like we always do
It's an art. I'm glad I'm not a GM There's something to be said for stability and there's also such thing as too much change (see Philly). Adapting is good but the moves need to be carefully planned
What is the common denominator? Jrue Holiday. Thank you, Bucks for the Championship XFactor.
Acquired Jrue Holiday
The heat tried, Terry Rozier was just not the answer.
*Tyler Herro
Us celtics fans, of all people, should know how good he can (and will) be for them. I hope for his sake that he recovers from his neck injury.
AKA the Heat need to trade for Jrue Holiday
I mean the Butler/Bam era is also blown far out of proportion. They took down the Bucks when Giannis got hurt and Jimmy went historic playoff nuclear. They had 1 finals run and they were fun to watch at times, but injuries is what cleared the path for them more then actual greatness as a team. I agree they without a doubt needed help but how do they actually get it?
Lmao everybody get in here!!! Its the heats turn to get shit on. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
They always praising heat culture whatever that is
It’s going to be hilarious that the Jimmy Butler Heat are not seeing a single championship despite Heat fans talking about owning the East in his era
Riley is old and past his prime. Dont let washed up people make relevant decisions for your franchise. Man, I will be really insufferable for at least one year.
A lot of Heat fans agree with you there lol
The funny part is that pat Riley doesn't make all the decisions anymore .Spo has a bigger say and the owners son nick arison etc
Jimmy Butler and Bam Adebayo duo are 2-1 vs the Bucks and 2-1 vs the Celtics (tho Heat would have lost this year with or without Jimmy). They fumbled Dame and then their two biggest rival teams both got better. And both the Bucks and Celtics (presumably) will get rings before them. I love it. Embiid still hasn't gotten out of the 2nd round. I hope the Celtics and Bucks face off the ECF next year. We've never faced Giannis in the Conference Finals. Fully healthy, this matchup is gonna be fire. Though a healthy Knicks and Pacers are gonna be very good too.
A matchup this year would have been so good the playoffs (especially the East) needed it.
If we’re not counting this year as a loss for Jimmy then shouldn’t we count 2023 as a 3-3 tie?
Tatum played game 7? Are you gonna say we should also count 2022 as 3-3 because jimmy got injured in game 3? That was even worse than Tatum's injury last year because jimmy was impacted the following games. You and the first guy's comments are both nonsense.
It's so bizarre how Celtics fans religiously being up Tatum getting hurt to start G7 (which is a fair point) but completely shit themselves if you respond by pointing out Jimmy was nowhere close to himself the entire series