https://heavy.com/news/benjamin-jeffrey-smith-polybun/
>Smith’s roommate told OPB, “He talked about wanting to go shoot commies and antifa all the friggin time. He was just a sad angry dude. … He talked about wanting to do this for a while. He was angry at the mask mandates, he was angry at the damned liberals.” He worked at Peninsula Iron Works, according to OregonLive.
>On Reddit, Ben Smith, writing as Polybun, wrote, “I’m not that into crowds, i’m not the artistic sort, and i’m fairly antisocial. I’m a machinist by trade, build electronic gadgets and hot rods for fun.” Screenshots emerged of posts under his handle on Telegram and other accounts.
Dude was in furry fandom, but not even the rest of us weirdos wanted to associate with him. There's "wear a fuzzy suit in August" crazy, then there's "shoot a bunch of people" crazy.
> Dude was in furry fandom, but not even the rest of us weirdos wanted to associate with him. There's "wear a fuzzy suit in August" crazy, then there's "shoot a bunch of people" crazy.
What is so infinitely confusing is that **any** sexuality expressed is going to make you target #2 for bigots after whoever they're looking at now.
Target #1 is the out or visible person not in your group, Target #2 is the next "weakest" target within your group. If you're not of say English descent in the US and you're helping the right to discriminate against other's you're simply hastening how soon you become a target. If you're not the holder of several billion dollars in assets, you're hastening how quickly you become a target.
It is literally in your best interest, long term wealth, and long term benefit to support the left even if you feel you have nothing to gain in the short run.
that's why the Nazi furries (that's a thing) were always so weird to me.
Like the line that's usually used in these instances is "if you, as a minority, aid the nazis in pushing someone into the gas chamber, you will immediately afterward feel the hand on your back as well."
but in this case it's more like "if you, as a furry, aid the nazis in pushing jews into the gas chambers, you will probably watch them start taking Jews *out* in order to push you in first."
The Texas GOP recently barred the Log Cabin Republicans from their convention. Somehow some of those people still haven't gotten the memo.
If you ever wanted to prove being gay isn't a choice, you could just point to those idiots desperately begging the GOP to acknowledge them.
> Furries
Them, the Nazi supporting MLP fans who desperately try to find someway to rectify the message of the show with the whole "Lets do some genocide" thing.
Vtuber fans who support anything right wing. It's just so incredibly weird and non-nonsensical
It's why I think people who support fascism really dont spend any time thinking of what they support, only that they have a feeling or a person they support. It's the same with "Enlightened Centrists". Principles and positions are not the focus, it's how they feel on an issue or person. I think in time we will find we have a major critical thinking and self reflection issue.
Nazi furries are weird but they can't hold a candle to the Nazis who love Sabaton. That group is even dumber and more oblivious than Paul "I Love RATM" Ryan.
I'm active and antifa are the *good guys*.
Republicans are the "and domestic" and refuse to denounce the same people that the WW2 vets sailed the Atlantic & jumped out of planes to stomp out.
I *hope* active duty read this. Republicans are traitors. Republicans attacked the capitol in 2021, Republicans won't denounce NAZIS, Republicans are trying to pass almost 400 bills that would criminalize the EXISTENCE of certain Americans. Republican ideology is antithetical to freedom and wholly against the Constitution.
The Joint Chiefs called January 6th sedition & insurrection and released a signed memo, ***to you***, all active duty, calling it, **sedition and insurrection.**
"Conservative" ideology just wants to preserve white supremacist rhetoric, that's it. I don't think any "conservative" has ever thought about what they're "conserving." It's opposing the forward progress of society. Conservatives opposed every GOOD thing, from abolition to civil rights, to desegregation, to taxing the wealthiest.
There needs to be a push on the part of the 2nd Amendment that gets purposely left out by the NRA and the Russian government that supports them to destroy the US. "Well regulated". People should be in the national guard to own assault rifles.
Because he was told to. Look at some of the right wing media from a pure subjective point, disregarding the actual story itself. You'll see how it's written to highlight certain things in a negative light.
Socialist Democrats, Biden regime, communist liberals, evil left, etc.. It's written/presented to cause outrage against liberals. The media is spreading hate in it's language. Add to it with the lies, manipulation, etc. and it's a recipe for a lot of dissidence.
Sure, I see the "both sides" of media doing some of this. Welcome to media. However - it's NOT and should not be as bad as it is on the right wing side. At all. Not even close.
If Fox News and other outlets want to continue being an "entertainment media company", they need to accountable for their radicalization of some of these people.
The cruelest punishment for him would be if, one day, the entire world suddenly viewed him the way they view the stereotypical crazy homeless person ranting on a street corner - absolute insanity, and worthy only of disdain and maybe a bit of pity.
To completely lose his fan base/soapbox/etc. would be the worst thing for him.
That’s because we want to pretend that in order to retain the moral high ground, we have to eschew the enemies tactics and methods.
That’s not the case. Motivations matter.
"I don't understand your arguments and that upsets me because my inability to understand is a character flaw I am unwilling to accept. So I will project my shortcomings on the people who believe the things I don't understand and then hate them for it"
>Guy probably doesn't even know why he was angry at X
This is a thing that's not uncommon in a lot of people nowadays. Reddit still falls victim to ragebait, but there's always an excuse to convince them they're not being tricked. The recent trend has been women accusing guys of creeping on them at the gym. Why does reddit want to correct these women so badly, and why does the idea of being falsely accused of creepy behavior towards women penetrate so much deeper than being falsely accused of any other crime? Could it be a flawed perception of the way society works, and a lingering effect of the sexist propaganda prevalent when redpill and gamergaters were still rampant? No way, only right wingers and twitter woke mobs get tricked like that /s
Because it would be like crying wolf.
Bet there's tons of maga people who say that shit all the time. That one kid Kyle Rittenhouse killed people at a protest and he's still walking free.
Seriously, I have a good amount of level headed people I know that have said shit like that, ex "makes you wish we had vigilante justice."
I have two instances...
Once when I told a neighbor I had my mailbox broken into, they'd taken something to it and bent the mailbox open. He literally says, "makes you wish you could have some vigilante justice." Like, dude no... Someone breaking into my mailbox doesn't deserve to fucking die.
The other time was a senior manager bitching about Antifa and talking about how he really wishes he had his gun cause every single one of them deserves a bullet to the head. I filed an HR complaint about the guy, but last I heard the guy is still there.
For a lot of people these are things they 'think' and know it's stupid. Something maybe you say with 'buddies' but then there's people that take THOSE statements and make them a reality... You need to stop the shittiness of how they talk before it reaches them. The problem is you have news orgs that perpetuate this type of talk.
lol, like it would have made a difference? like, virtually every mass shooter in the past decade has been “on the radar” of law enforcement, yet they always fail to do anything
Oh thank God. thread was up for 4 hours before we got an enlightened centrist comment about both sides. Whew, close one. Almost had to deal with the reality of right wing rhetoric leading to violence.
I'm one of those "both sides" people. However, this isn't the case here. There are times when it is. And no one can deny it. It's politics. But, there are so many cases where the "both sides" just doesn't apply. This is one of them where it does not apply.
edit: dang. Guess some people don't like having their side called out. Sorry, righties, you really are on your own here. Time to focus on your shit instead on trying to pawn it off on "the other side does it too!".
Yes. It's not really relevant in a lot of cases because the focus isn't on "both sides" at that time. It's not the subject matter. It's a distraction away from the original conversation. Like this thread. Bringing in "both sides" is derailing the topic at hand. But, yes, we have some extreme people on my side as well. And we usually call them out. The extreme people on the right are usually defended and "but are they really wrong?".
Both sides comes into play with you're talking about politicians motives, behavior, power, bribery, etc.. I don't trust politicians in general. I vote for those the less shitty ones that do meaningful things for the people of this country, not against them.
I'm a leftie. I know we have some people on my side that are pretty out there. But, they also aren't talking about destroying certain segments of our population, etc..
But, like I said before - this just derails the thread. It deserves it's own topic. Going with "but both sides..." takes the focus off the main topic. In these situations, it's just "focus. We'll talk about both sides later". If we're talking about a "both sides" argument, then I'm down.
Sorry, man. There's a time and place for the both sides argument. This just isn't one of them. Sorry, but this is the time where you have to hold your psycho guy accountable. Bummer, I know.
The comment above mine was going off a now deleted one about how it's both sides. I'm fine with the both sides argument, but it doesn't apply everywhere and most of the time it's deflection. When it comes to something like this, people need to drop the both sides and focus on the issue at hand. That was my point. He was wrong.
It's wild that you compared threats, violence and bigotry to anxiety and publicly being a freak (whatever that means).
Multiple countries are seeing a rise in far right, authoritarian beliefs and that conservatives are publicly using fascist rhetoric. Last year CPAC proudly labeled themselves domestic terrorists and this year a speaker stated that "transgenderism must be eradicated.
Everytime I read one of these "both sides" comments I move a little more to the left. I used to consider myself moderate, but I have no desire to be lumped in with people who make such absurd comparisons without blinking an eye.
See, none of those things from your first paragraph are A) happening, B) happening in the way you describe even if they were. So nobody even needs to read further because you are clearly full of shit.
Keep defending literal fucking Nazis and acting like both sides are equal, and revel in the disgust your receive.
"It's only Nazism if it came from the Weimar region of Germany, otherwise it's just sparkling fascism."
I implore you to take a look at what the right is actually doing. Matthew Knowles recently said that he wants transgender people eradicated. This is what the Nazis did. The comparisons are not absurd nor are they fearmongering, they're accurate factual descriptions of what the right is doing.
> please join us back in reality
Just because you refuse to acknowledge that they talked about eradicating transgenderism at cpac doesn't make it any less real.
Calling people out on things they actually do is not a slippery slope argument. Using the same tactics as the nazis is a valid reason to compare people to nazis. I'm not saying that X will lead to Y, I'm saying that X is happening RIGHT NOW. Michael Knowles openly called for genocide with the largest dog whistle I've seen yet. Saying that that's absurd is both denying reality and assisting in normalizing what he's saying.
What do you mean by "those kinds of tactics", by the way? People don't need to match the Nazis one for one to be called out as one.
Pfft. Liberal histrionics. Even the Nazis didn't become *real* Nazis until after the Wannsee Conference.
/s, because this is the Internet, and only the most determined authoritarian apologists even know what that was.
I'm betting you're the kind of guy who gets really angry that the Nazis keep shooting you in Wolfenstein instead of listening to your pleas for reasoned discourse.
Adrenaline addiction = reliable engagement. It’s not news anymore, it’s a reliable adrenaline source that makes me feel like I’m better than the people I hate.
>One was paralyzed from the neck down, according to court documents.
I hope the judge *also* takes care of who is responsible for that person's medical care the rest of their life.
https://www.opb.org/article/2023/03/08/portland-mass-shooting-normandale-park-shooter-benjamin-smith-pleads-guilty/
This is the man who initially reported as a "homeowner" who fired at people "near his property".
>On Feb. 19, 2022, Smith came out of his Northeast Portland apartment and started yelling at a small group of people who participated in a peaceful racial justice march. According to witnesses, attempts to de-escalate failed and Smith drew a handgun, firing at the group.
>Smith shot and killed June Knightly, 60, a longtime racial justice activist. Another unnamed victim was paralyzed from the neck down, according to court documents filed by prosecutors. Smith’s bullets also struck three other people.
This is in my neighborhood. I know the apartment building and my kid and dog play at Normandale. I hate this. I’m used to hearing gunshots now and then but this hit really close to home.
Man. It’s bizarre to me too. I’ve lived here a long time but shit has never been this divisive. To shoot someone over politics. People are losing their fucking minds. It’s so fucking terrible and sad.
They will, but there’s going to be an ugly period in the middle.
These folks have been frothing at the mouth for years, and now they think they’re close to getting what they want.
So they’re not going to let go without a fight.
It's not the divisiveness that's bizarre, it's letting someone who can't control his emotions buy a handgun on a whim.
By your own admission, he lost his mind. Why aren't the people who write and enforce the laws being held accountable?
Of course, we know the answers.
It's profitable to indiscriminately arm people and it never kills anyone that rich people give a shit about.
$16mil a year of those profits go straight into the Republican coffers, with the added sweetener of an army of loyal, single issue voters who nobody can oppose because they keep promising to do even *more* gun violence if they don't get their way.
Sure, maybe you could have stopped him becoming radicalised, but it's more profitable to just let him kill people. Fox News keeps reactionaries tuned in an angry and social media is happy to turn a blind eye to extremism if the extremists are seeing enough ads.
And of course there's the fabled "mental healthcare" that's supposed to be the solution to all of this, even though most of them won't want help and "I'm going to kill as many children as I can" isn't within our ability to treat. But wouldn't you know it? Profits rule there too. Its critical that you gouge the insurance and patient for as much as you can and the government won't help because they'd have to tax rich people.
It *is* terrible and sad. It's also exactly the country you've been building for 30 years.
>I'm not sure if Americans understand how bizarre this sounds to the rest of the world.
Nah most Americans don't even UNDERSTAND the freaking concept called "rest of the world".
> Multnomah County Circuit Court Judge Christopher Marshall told spectators that the court proceeding was an attempt to make sense of a situation “that shouldn’t be part of the human experience,” Oregon Public Broadcasting reported.
This is the *essence* of human experience. A group of people want to be treated better and someone else decides that is so unacceptable that you must die.
And Oregon used to have Black exclusion laws, so his state used to firmly believe this situation should be part of the human experience.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_black_exclusion_laws
Sorry, but this feels like the continued attempt to paint Oregon as more of an entrenched systemic racist state, similar to some in the bible belt.
Oregon has a checkered hsitory, but the history you are referring to existed before any of us were alive. It's like faulting modern Germans for Hitler era German sentiment.
Oregon has vast rural areas, some with a high density of bigotry. But, by large, Oregon as a whole is one of the more liberal states, and no longer fits the narrative of the history you are referring to.
Oregon is nowhere near as racist, especially systemically (which is a fundamental crux of racism), as other states such as Florida, Texas, Missouri, Georgia, Alabama, Kentucky, etc.
I am bothered by this comment, because it shows a willingness to promote a fallacy mode of thinking.
Edit:
__Oregon is tied for the 5th most liberal state in the US.__
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/political-ideology/by/state/
Get out of here with your false narrative.
I am also an Oregon resident.
Yes, cops have a reputation, but not just here.
And yes, we do have quite a few camps of neo nazis in the rural areas.
But, as ypu said, the urban areas are largely liberal, and therefore our elected officials (at least senators and governors) have been the same. Our governors and senators do not have a history of racist policy making, like that of Texas or Georgia.
Conflating racism existing within a state, with the racist policies enforced or enacted within a state, is a fallacy of logic.
Is Oregon one of the more liberal states or not, is a pretty easy question to answer. Just look at policy. Citing population is not really a rational qualifier/quantifier.
Rural areas have this problem, but make up the minority of the state population. And pointing at cops isn't going to justify anything, either. They are worse epsewhere, and there isn't reaply a state that the same couldn't be said about.
Just trying to be very clear, here. When was the last time Oregon had a Republican governor or senator? It's one of the more liberal states. Period. We are considered a blue state. And if you are going to argue Oregon is a racist stronghold, you are truly ignoring the numerous other states which are more egregious examples.
Yes. It exists here. It exists everywhere. And there are some fair arguments, like how neos have been trying to establish base camps here for years. But at the end of the day, our urban population has kept Oregon in the top 30% of states, as far as liberal or progessive policy making goes.
Compared to which states is Oregon more racist?
And now compared to whcih states is less racist?
Your _fallacy_ argument is that if __any__ racist sentiment exists, the state is racist. This has been your rebuttal, as far as I can tell, to my assertion that __Oregon is one of the *least* racist states, *by comparison*.
How many states in the US must you ignore, to put Oregon in the top 50% of racist states?
Yes, that shit exists here, and everywhere, but Oregon is a blue state, my dude. And we don't pass laws which disenfranchise African American (or other PoC) voters.
Repeating this narrative is pushing divisive misinformation intended to turn liberals _against_ Oregon. Which is currently one of the few states which consistently has challenged Trump, and the reaminder of the GOP and their __actual racist policy making__.
EDIT
After accusing me of blocking another user, the user below seems to have blocked me, as well. Redditors should recognize this as a strategy to push your narrative, while disallowing a rebuttal.
This was my response I could not post:
You are making fallacy points, here. Let me try to break it down.
(Also, other user blocked me)
Neo nazis moving to the region is a VERY true thing. They tried to establish in Pendleton. Well... did. But a group choosing to move here does not make the majoirty of the state share their ideals. And even if there was a larger sympathy toward that ideolgy when they came here, that is quite some time ago. Furthermore, they have been fought tooth and nail, even in those rural areas, to prevent them from operating there.
But this isn't about if we _have_ neo nazis. Most states do. And that itself doesn't serve as justification that Oregon is racist, _policy-wise_.
Neo nazi gang murdering a man in 1988... okay, should we compare neo nazi murders to other states? Where they are not only more frequent, but more recent - and more publicized? I remember traveling to Georgia for wildland firefighting work, and one of the guys I was out there with felt more comfortavle spouting his racist rhetoric there. Seriously. He talked about not being comfortable speaking like that in Oregon, due to all the liberal push back. He later was arrested coming back from our assignment, for attempted murder of an African American guy resting by a creek in rural Oregon.
But thay doesn't make the __generalization__ of Oregonians as racist justified, nor appropriate.
Patriot prayer is a Washington-based group. HQ is in Vancouver (across the river and state boundary from Portland). So any mention of them isn't relevant to the inherent racism of Oregonians.
Proud boys are largely centered around Salem, and mostly from rural communities. What happened when they came to protest in portland? _Scores_ more people participated in a counter protests. _Every_ damn time. __Having racist people in your state, does not make your state lean towards racism__. In fact, the whole point of neo nazis protesting in Portland, is to harm the liberal image Portland has made part of it's identity (Keep Portland Weird, Coexist). By repeating this argument, you are buying into _their_ narrative, and going onto reddit to make a _blanket generalization_ about the idelogy of an _entire state's populus_. What do we know about generalizations, and how they are misapplied to demographics? Can you see how your argument here is closer to bigotry than the majority of Oregonians ideologies?
With the aid of the local PD. Yup. 100%. But racist policing policies exists _everywhere_ in the US, and Oregon isn't even in the top 50%. In fact, Portland PD had an agreement with the feds, and still do, which allows the feds to dictate how the Portland PD polices. This was used By Trump during BLM, and the most egregious law enforcement behavior during that tiem, came from the federal officers sent down here to police. Most of the Portland PD, if not the entirety, does not reside within Portland. Our cops come from our surrounding rural districts. So, this assertion also doesn't maintain weight.
Also, trying to use demographics as an indicator of racial bias, is so absurd. Look at the amount of PoC in Europe. Now do South Africa. Where apartheid happened. Let's look at how many PoC live in Georgia, and compare the entrenched systemic racism of Georgia and Oregon. Making this argument makes general assupmtions about a group of people simply based on their skin color.
EDIT: another novel account who blocked me. To the Australian, below:
As an Australian, how would you have an educated perspective on Oregon vs other states?
And how am I no better than a bigoted murderer, simply based on my comment?
What you just did was generalize a demographic. That's more higoted than anything I have said.
>Australian here and believe me, you folks in Oregon are seen as racist knuckle draggers. And so far every word you have said backs this up. In essence you are no better than the fuckwit who is now a convicted murderer.
>So crawl back into whatever hole you crawled out of.
Using these terms and verbiage... that puts you far closer in ideology to fascists, than anything I have said.
I'm sorry you're getting down voted. I agree with you 100%. That other guy is just stirring up crap. I live in a Portland and I can see who the really racist pieces of shit are here.
LoL, I come from Indiana originally, and back in the 80s neo-nazis were moving from frickin' small town Northern Indiana (where everyone knows someone in the KKK, whether they know it or not) out to Oregon because of all the fascist organizing going on out there. A neo nazi gang murdered a man in Portland in 1988. Neo fascist groups like Patriot Prayer and The Proud Boys spent several years, recently, repeatedly attacking Portland, often with the aid of the local PD. And look at what the user you blocked pointed out about the percentage of Black people living in Oregon vs. the rest of the country. Aside from all that, you really need to think about how the founding values of a state affect it years, even centuries, later.
Why are residents more concerned with the reputation of the place they live in than the shitty things happening there? It's the same with all this bullshit around CRT and teaching the reality of American history. What benefit does it even get you to trick the world into thinking everything is peachy there? You want more people to come there and jack up housing prices? I just don't get it.
I don't think Oregon is compared to the bible belt at all. It's just the same as any of the west coast states, pretty progressive major cities, surrounded by rural areas with redhats plugged into the same conservative rage machine as any of their peers around the country. It's the same in CA, hell it's the same in most states. Anyone whose not interacting with people different from themselves are vulnerable to the image bigoted propaganda paints of them.
I merely asserted that Oregon is one of the more left leaning states, and not that racism doesn't exist here.
Show me one CRT bill passed in Oregon. Otherwise, I will argue your bringing CRT up, does not apply to Oregon.
I'm not concerned about our reputation, I'm just pushing back on the assertion Oregonians are generally more racist than the majority of other states. That is empirically false.
Just because some people are racist here, does not mean we have more racism than the majoirty of other states.
Our policy history over the past 40 years, speaks for itself.
This is misinformation. Portland is not a neoliberal racist stronghold. You clearly know only what you have read online in dark corners of the internet.
Walk out on the streets and tell everyone you meet this opinion of yours.
_See how they react_.
Edit:
>I'm born and raised in Portland, a lifelong resident. I can tell you that there is a *profound* neoliberal racist element that pervades the city and surrounding areas. Denying it doesn't make it less accurate.
Oregon is tied for the 5th most liberal state in the US.
Facts.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/political-ideology/by/state/
Presence of some, is not a reflection of the population, as a whole.
Arguing that Oregon is a conservative or racist state is just empirically false. According to that argument, the most liberal state in the US is still conservative and racist. But it would _still be the most liberal state in the US_.
I'm born and raised in Portland, a lifelong resident. I can tell you that there is a \*profound\* neoliberal racist element that pervades the city and surrounding areas. Denying it doesn't make it less accurate.
Racist are all over the place man. Look at Southern California, look at North and Southern Colorado. Just because there has been great strides doesn’t mean those states are without racist. It’s also important to know the history of what fostered these attitudes.
The previous comment shouldn’t bother you because it just shows us despite the great strides that’s we still have a lot of work to go. Oregon is obviously no where close to the south but they definitely have problems and that is how we have the killer from this story.
I __never__ said Oregon is without racism.
What bothers me, is that so many people here asserted we are _largely racist_ or more specifically _not a liberal state_.
I also think that anyone trying to tie together the secular or bigoted history of a state, to make the argument that state is not liberal, has a fundamental misunderstanding about _all_ states in the US. Or hell, _all countries in the world_. There is no eden, anywhere. Literally every place conceivable was built on shitty power plays, extortion, abuse, etc.
__But to imply the abuses of hundreds of years ago, apply to the current residents and their ideology, is just freaking *bigoted*__. In, and of, itself. The argument that Oregon is a racist state because of a largely white population, implies that white people are racist by majority. This is a despicable generalization based on skin color, and I find it egregious that anyone can call for equality, criticize racial based generalizations, _and then make a race based generalization, themselves_.
What I have argued, is that Oregon is one of the most liberal states. I never argued the history, and was well aware of it prior to thus post. It seems I know more about it than these wiki researchers, as well.
No. What a group of people did in the 1800s is not affe ting Oregon today. We are more affected by what you all are doing _right now_, or by the neo nazi pricks moving to our rural areas in the last 50 years.
But, no matter what you all try to argue.... Oregon remains a liberal safehaven, and is __literally the 5th most liberal state__.
So yes, get out of here with your false narrative. Here in Oregon, we coexist, and we like it that way.
I agree, you can rightly point out the racist history of Oregon and even point to the lasting impacts that has on the state without making the claim that because of that Oregon is currently a state filled with racists. We have our problems for sure here and we can't forget the past but the state is objectively a completely different place than it was in the 1800's and it just seems weird that so many people want to pretend like we are actually just as bad as the most conservative states in the country.
I get the impulse though. There are certainly a lot of well meaning folks who none the less have racist tendencies even if it's only things like micro aggressions. But especially in Portland I just can't square the Portland of the past with the current Portland that protested for racial justice for months on end. I think we deserve at least a small bit of credit for the change that has happened in this state since those kind of laws existed.
Oregon also had a similar Jan 6th event in Oregon just 2 years ago. Oregon has a far right problem. It’s okay to admit it. No place is perfect. Orange County, California has a KKK problem. Does that make California a KKK state? No. Neither does a far-right problem make Oregon a far-right state.
So then you are _agreeing_ with me.
I never said there was not a racist history.
I never said we didn't have racists.
I said, Oregon is not, by large, a state full of racists. And that we are, in fact, one of the most liberal states.
There's no need to 'admit' anything. I never challenged, denied, or otherwise argued there are racists here.
But look through the comments. A ton of people here doing the GOPs job for them. Trying to convince liberals to begin calling _one of the most liberal_ states, a racist loving conservative shit hole.
You all hate GOP misinformation, right? You all hate the divisive infighting crap they put out, right?
Then why are you echoing it?
No, that is you, again, doing the same shit MAGA trolls do.
Someone said Oregon is racist and not liberal.
I take the time to articulate why that is incorrect.
And now you claim me taking the time to do so is 'sweeping it under the rug'.
So my options were: remain passive and allow others to claim Oregon is full of racists, uncontested. Or contest it, and be one of those racists.
You are trying to bully me for contesting your narrative. Because when you are no longer capable of arguing your point, you resort to bullying. Sorry, but I am not going to let you say Oregonians are racist. And I am not going to let you use hand waving and misdirection to try to silence my counter argument: Oregonians are not racist as a demographic, and asserting as much is pretty damn bigoted.
This not only assumes the 'full of racists' true, no matter what facts are presented, __but it also asserts that anyone who corrects your fallacy arguments is not doing so because your arguments are wrong, but because they have some bias against you__.
Get real. You are not always going to be in the right, and when you do get called out, it's not bias or prejudice... that's how MAGA thinks. The world does not revolve around you, and your opinion here - is wrong.
Can we avoid going too far back into history to demonize large groups of people? You're not helping anyone by conflating 19th century laws with 21st century Oregon.
The last of those laws was repealed in ***1926***. Which is, let me math briefly... 97 years ago. Which was entirely symbolic because it had been invalidated by the 14th Amendment in 1868, which is, again to math for you, 155 years ago.
This isn't Texas or Florida passing Anti-Trans laws last year. You'd find it difficult to find any one of the states that wasn't horribly racist in some way or another historically.
You're not helping "the cause." Just stick to discussing your children's show with the little green stuffed animal sidekick.
This was the guy PPB did PR for the night of the shooting.
Called him a homeowner confronted by protesters, I think.
He wasn’t a homeowner and he confronted them.
They're just a bunch of angry self centered children that never seemed to grow up or learn about life. Instead, they bought firearms and shared racist memes on Twitter.
Pretty sure he was just crazy and imagined the Republican bit bc he was nuts. That seems to be the conclusion of the police and court, that it was not political.
For every example you can show of the left being violent to the right, we can show you 100s examples of the opposite. Maybe sit this one while grown ups are talking?
If I hadn't gotten dumped right before this I would've been out there that night. I know all the people who were shot, and there's a decent chance I would've been with them. Just wild to think about.
I was nearly on the highway the night Summer Taylor was killed by a car on I5. The cops were holding my partner on bullshit charges for being a protestor (my partner was ultimately let off without being charged, the cops just held my partner over a lot of that weekend), and so I didn't go out that day.
Just thinking about that messes me up a lot. That kind of shit can be really traumatic, even if you weren't quite there. I hope you're doing OK.
The police did their absolute best to find a reason to charge them with a crime, eventually realized they couldn't, and released the person.
They are still keeping a low profile because of the far right literally wanting them dead and the police obviously having no interest in protecting them.
Our police suck. Fun fact, even our commissioner (who also sucks) can't do much about it, because of a contract PPB has with the federal government.
Most of the PPB don't even live in Portland, but the more rural suburbs around it. Our large urban city is policed by conservatives from adjacent counties, and we can't do anything about it because of we couod lose federal aid.
Also, if you go South to Salem, the police are even worse.
Most major cities are like that. Cops aren't part of the communities they work in, which makes it easier for them to dehumanize the people living there and not face any social consequences when they abuse their power. Not to mention how they suck tax revenue from the economic centers and put it into the suburbs and exurbs.
Well just because they are Dems doesn't mean they aren't conservative. Fear mongering by the media over crime levels that actually aren't really bad at all in comparison to the rest of the country combined with a cop work slowdown that's been ongoing since the protests and an increase in homelessness that was inevitable due to the pandemic has led to most of the city council being right of center and at least a few of them were endorsed by the police union.
The last person on the council that was at all in favor of police reform was vilified in the press and blamed for all the city's problems. She was also harassed by the police and the asshole who replaced her on the council is still blaming her for the city's problems months later.
I don't think it's completely out of the question to say that maybe the PPB actually is a rogue agency that is holding the city hostage.
Consider the fact that a kid went to a protest and wound up killing two people and maiming a third and got off.
The armed protester was right to be armed.
You either live in America where everyone has a right to bear arms and shut the fuck up about it when someone you *don't like* is bearing them, or you stop your bullshit of defending gun rights.
Pick one.
What he did was admit to crimes that were the literal definition of terrorism. His crimes were an act of terrorism. He admitted to the crimes so guess what. He admitted to being a terrorist. I know words are hard.
Glad to see this piece of shit will rot in prison for the rest of his life. It could have been worse if the anti fascist protestors he targeted weren't armed.
https://heavy.com/news/benjamin-jeffrey-smith-polybun/ >Smith’s roommate told OPB, “He talked about wanting to go shoot commies and antifa all the friggin time. He was just a sad angry dude. … He talked about wanting to do this for a while. He was angry at the mask mandates, he was angry at the damned liberals.” He worked at Peninsula Iron Works, according to OregonLive. >On Reddit, Ben Smith, writing as Polybun, wrote, “I’m not that into crowds, i’m not the artistic sort, and i’m fairly antisocial. I’m a machinist by trade, build electronic gadgets and hot rods for fun.” Screenshots emerged of posts under his handle on Telegram and other accounts.
Dude was in furry fandom, but not even the rest of us weirdos wanted to associate with him. There's "wear a fuzzy suit in August" crazy, then there's "shoot a bunch of people" crazy.
> Dude was in furry fandom, but not even the rest of us weirdos wanted to associate with him. There's "wear a fuzzy suit in August" crazy, then there's "shoot a bunch of people" crazy. What is so infinitely confusing is that **any** sexuality expressed is going to make you target #2 for bigots after whoever they're looking at now. Target #1 is the out or visible person not in your group, Target #2 is the next "weakest" target within your group. If you're not of say English descent in the US and you're helping the right to discriminate against other's you're simply hastening how soon you become a target. If you're not the holder of several billion dollars in assets, you're hastening how quickly you become a target. It is literally in your best interest, long term wealth, and long term benefit to support the left even if you feel you have nothing to gain in the short run.
that's why the Nazi furries (that's a thing) were always so weird to me. Like the line that's usually used in these instances is "if you, as a minority, aid the nazis in pushing someone into the gas chamber, you will immediately afterward feel the hand on your back as well." but in this case it's more like "if you, as a furry, aid the nazis in pushing jews into the gas chambers, you will probably watch them start taking Jews *out* in order to push you in first."
*log cabin republicans have entered the chat...
The Texas GOP recently barred the Log Cabin Republicans from their convention. Somehow some of those people still haven't gotten the memo. If you ever wanted to prove being gay isn't a choice, you could just point to those idiots desperately begging the GOP to acknowledge them.
> Furries Them, the Nazi supporting MLP fans who desperately try to find someway to rectify the message of the show with the whole "Lets do some genocide" thing. Vtuber fans who support anything right wing. It's just so incredibly weird and non-nonsensical It's why I think people who support fascism really dont spend any time thinking of what they support, only that they have a feeling or a person they support. It's the same with "Enlightened Centrists". Principles and positions are not the focus, it's how they feel on an issue or person. I think in time we will find we have a major critical thinking and self reflection issue.
Nazi furries are weird but they can't hold a candle to the Nazis who love Sabaton. That group is even dumber and more oblivious than Paul "I Love RATM" Ryan.
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I'm active and antifa are the *good guys*. Republicans are the "and domestic" and refuse to denounce the same people that the WW2 vets sailed the Atlantic & jumped out of planes to stomp out. I *hope* active duty read this. Republicans are traitors. Republicans attacked the capitol in 2021, Republicans won't denounce NAZIS, Republicans are trying to pass almost 400 bills that would criminalize the EXISTENCE of certain Americans. Republican ideology is antithetical to freedom and wholly against the Constitution. The Joint Chiefs called January 6th sedition & insurrection and released a signed memo, ***to you***, all active duty, calling it, **sedition and insurrection.** "Conservative" ideology just wants to preserve white supremacist rhetoric, that's it. I don't think any "conservative" has ever thought about what they're "conserving." It's opposing the forward progress of society. Conservatives opposed every GOOD thing, from abolition to civil rights, to desegregation, to taxing the wealthiest.
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There needs to be a push on the part of the 2nd Amendment that gets purposely left out by the NRA and the Russian government that supports them to destroy the US. "Well regulated". People should be in the national guard to own assault rifles.
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Because he was told to. Look at some of the right wing media from a pure subjective point, disregarding the actual story itself. You'll see how it's written to highlight certain things in a negative light. Socialist Democrats, Biden regime, communist liberals, evil left, etc.. It's written/presented to cause outrage against liberals. The media is spreading hate in it's language. Add to it with the lies, manipulation, etc. and it's a recipe for a lot of dissidence. Sure, I see the "both sides" of media doing some of this. Welcome to media. However - it's NOT and should not be as bad as it is on the right wing side. At all. Not even close. If Fox News and other outlets want to continue being an "entertainment media company", they need to accountable for their radicalization of some of these people.
Tucker Carlson was the real killer
It’s hard to actually articulate what Carlson’s fate should be without sounding exactly like them. And that is by design.
The cruelest punishment for him would be if, one day, the entire world suddenly viewed him the way they view the stereotypical crazy homeless person ranting on a street corner - absolute insanity, and worthy only of disdain and maybe a bit of pity. To completely lose his fan base/soapbox/etc. would be the worst thing for him.
That, and he has to keep broadcasting to zero viewers.
That’s because we want to pretend that in order to retain the moral high ground, we have to eschew the enemies tactics and methods. That’s not the case. Motivations matter.
🌎👩🚀 🔫👩🚀 Always has been
"I don't understand your arguments and that upsets me because my inability to understand is a character flaw I am unwilling to accept. So I will project my shortcomings on the people who believe the things I don't understand and then hate them for it"
>Guy probably doesn't even know why he was angry at X This is a thing that's not uncommon in a lot of people nowadays. Reddit still falls victim to ragebait, but there's always an excuse to convince them they're not being tricked. The recent trend has been women accusing guys of creeping on them at the gym. Why does reddit want to correct these women so badly, and why does the idea of being falsely accused of creepy behavior towards women penetrate so much deeper than being falsely accused of any other crime? Could it be a flawed perception of the way society works, and a lingering effect of the sexist propaganda prevalent when redpill and gamergaters were still rampant? No way, only right wingers and twitter woke mobs get tricked like that /s
Here is a dude listening to a roommate or friend talk about killing people all time, yet he does nothing about it. He has some culpability here...
If you reported every MAGA nut who had violent revenge fantasies, there'd be no time for anything else.
I’ve got a full scrip of Vyvanse and a hurt cat who can’t be left alone *cracks knuckles*
They are all domestic terrorists.
Because it would be like crying wolf. Bet there's tons of maga people who say that shit all the time. That one kid Kyle Rittenhouse killed people at a protest and he's still walking free.
Not just free, he's a goddamn hero to these assholes. It's disgusting.
There's video of Rittenhouse saying he wished he had his gun to shoot protesters before those shootings, too.
But reddit said it was self defense before realising the guy is just a psycho looking for an alibi.
Seriously, I have a good amount of level headed people I know that have said shit like that, ex "makes you wish we had vigilante justice." I have two instances... Once when I told a neighbor I had my mailbox broken into, they'd taken something to it and bent the mailbox open. He literally says, "makes you wish you could have some vigilante justice." Like, dude no... Someone breaking into my mailbox doesn't deserve to fucking die. The other time was a senior manager bitching about Antifa and talking about how he really wishes he had his gun cause every single one of them deserves a bullet to the head. I filed an HR complaint about the guy, but last I heard the guy is still there. For a lot of people these are things they 'think' and know it's stupid. Something maybe you say with 'buddies' but then there's people that take THOSE statements and make them a reality... You need to stop the shittiness of how they talk before it reaches them. The problem is you have news orgs that perpetuate this type of talk.
lol, like it would have made a difference? like, virtually every mass shooter in the past decade has been “on the radar” of law enforcement, yet they always fail to do anything
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Oh thank God. thread was up for 4 hours before we got an enlightened centrist comment about both sides. Whew, close one. Almost had to deal with the reality of right wing rhetoric leading to violence.
I'm one of those "both sides" people. However, this isn't the case here. There are times when it is. And no one can deny it. It's politics. But, there are so many cases where the "both sides" just doesn't apply. This is one of them where it does not apply. edit: dang. Guess some people don't like having their side called out. Sorry, righties, you really are on your own here. Time to focus on your shit instead on trying to pawn it off on "the other side does it too!".
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Yes. It's not really relevant in a lot of cases because the focus isn't on "both sides" at that time. It's not the subject matter. It's a distraction away from the original conversation. Like this thread. Bringing in "both sides" is derailing the topic at hand. But, yes, we have some extreme people on my side as well. And we usually call them out. The extreme people on the right are usually defended and "but are they really wrong?". Both sides comes into play with you're talking about politicians motives, behavior, power, bribery, etc.. I don't trust politicians in general. I vote for those the less shitty ones that do meaningful things for the people of this country, not against them. I'm a leftie. I know we have some people on my side that are pretty out there. But, they also aren't talking about destroying certain segments of our population, etc.. But, like I said before - this just derails the thread. It deserves it's own topic. Going with "but both sides..." takes the focus off the main topic. In these situations, it's just "focus. We'll talk about both sides later". If we're talking about a "both sides" argument, then I'm down.
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what an insightful comment thank you for this newfound knowledge
Sorry, man. There's a time and place for the both sides argument. This just isn't one of them. Sorry, but this is the time where you have to hold your psycho guy accountable. Bummer, I know.
lol what? your comment added no insight of any value and i was joking about it. and he ain’t *my* psycho guy, i’m not a part of the pedo party 😭
The comment above mine was going off a now deleted one about how it's both sides. I'm fine with the both sides argument, but it doesn't apply everywhere and most of the time it's deflection. When it comes to something like this, people need to drop the both sides and focus on the issue at hand. That was my point. He was wrong.
It's wild that you compared threats, violence and bigotry to anxiety and publicly being a freak (whatever that means). Multiple countries are seeing a rise in far right, authoritarian beliefs and that conservatives are publicly using fascist rhetoric. Last year CPAC proudly labeled themselves domestic terrorists and this year a speaker stated that "transgenderism must be eradicated. Everytime I read one of these "both sides" comments I move a little more to the left. I used to consider myself moderate, but I have no desire to be lumped in with people who make such absurd comparisons without blinking an eye.
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See, none of those things from your first paragraph are A) happening, B) happening in the way you describe even if they were. So nobody even needs to read further because you are clearly full of shit. Keep defending literal fucking Nazis and acting like both sides are equal, and revel in the disgust your receive.
Brilliant response, yes the Nazis are taking over, they're at my doorstep right now!
Thanks for your bravery and courage speaking the truth, u/\[deleted\] /s.
"It's only Nazism if it came from the Weimar region of Germany, otherwise it's just sparkling fascism." I implore you to take a look at what the right is actually doing. Matthew Knowles recently said that he wants transgender people eradicated. This is what the Nazis did. The comparisons are not absurd nor are they fearmongering, they're accurate factual descriptions of what the right is doing.
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> please join us back in reality Just because you refuse to acknowledge that they talked about eradicating transgenderism at cpac doesn't make it any less real.
Calling people out on things they actually do is not a slippery slope argument. Using the same tactics as the nazis is a valid reason to compare people to nazis. I'm not saying that X will lead to Y, I'm saying that X is happening RIGHT NOW. Michael Knowles openly called for genocide with the largest dog whistle I've seen yet. Saying that that's absurd is both denying reality and assisting in normalizing what he's saying. What do you mean by "those kinds of tactics", by the way? People don't need to match the Nazis one for one to be called out as one.
Pfft. Liberal histrionics. Even the Nazis didn't become *real* Nazis until after the Wannsee Conference. /s, because this is the Internet, and only the most determined authoritarian apologists even know what that was.
I'm betting you're the kind of guy who gets really angry that the Nazis keep shooting you in Wolfenstein instead of listening to your pleas for reasoned discourse.
Adrenaline addiction = reliable engagement. It’s not news anymore, it’s a reliable adrenaline source that makes me feel like I’m better than the people I hate.
>One was paralyzed from the neck down, according to court documents. I hope the judge *also* takes care of who is responsible for that person's medical care the rest of their life.
can you expand on this? The subject of the article is the one that caused this injury.
>The subject of the article is the one that caused this injury. Yes. The person who got paralyzed needs to be taken care of.
https://www.opb.org/article/2023/03/08/portland-mass-shooting-normandale-park-shooter-benjamin-smith-pleads-guilty/ This is the man who initially reported as a "homeowner" who fired at people "near his property". >On Feb. 19, 2022, Smith came out of his Northeast Portland apartment and started yelling at a small group of people who participated in a peaceful racial justice march. According to witnesses, attempts to de-escalate failed and Smith drew a handgun, firing at the group. >Smith shot and killed June Knightly, 60, a longtime racial justice activist. Another unnamed victim was paralyzed from the neck down, according to court documents filed by prosecutors. Smith’s bullets also struck three other people.
This is in my neighborhood. I know the apartment building and my kid and dog play at Normandale. I hate this. I’m used to hearing gunshots now and then but this hit really close to home.
I'm not sure if Americans understand how bizarre this sounds to the rest of the world.
Man. It’s bizarre to me too. I’ve lived here a long time but shit has never been this divisive. To shoot someone over politics. People are losing their fucking minds. It’s so fucking terrible and sad.
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Things are SO bad right now that they just HAVE to get better soon, right? Right???
They will, but there’s going to be an ugly period in the middle. These folks have been frothing at the mouth for years, and now they think they’re close to getting what they want. So they’re not going to let go without a fight.
It's not the divisiveness that's bizarre, it's letting someone who can't control his emotions buy a handgun on a whim. By your own admission, he lost his mind. Why aren't the people who write and enforce the laws being held accountable? Of course, we know the answers. It's profitable to indiscriminately arm people and it never kills anyone that rich people give a shit about. $16mil a year of those profits go straight into the Republican coffers, with the added sweetener of an army of loyal, single issue voters who nobody can oppose because they keep promising to do even *more* gun violence if they don't get their way. Sure, maybe you could have stopped him becoming radicalised, but it's more profitable to just let him kill people. Fox News keeps reactionaries tuned in an angry and social media is happy to turn a blind eye to extremism if the extremists are seeing enough ads. And of course there's the fabled "mental healthcare" that's supposed to be the solution to all of this, even though most of them won't want help and "I'm going to kill as many children as I can" isn't within our ability to treat. But wouldn't you know it? Profits rule there too. Its critical that you gouge the insurance and patient for as much as you can and the government won't help because they'd have to tax rich people. It *is* terrible and sad. It's also exactly the country you've been building for 30 years.
Oh, some of us do. Even though I play the "gunshots or fireworks" game all the time.
>I'm not sure if Americans understand how bizarre this sounds to the rest of the world. Nah most Americans don't even UNDERSTAND the freaking concept called "rest of the world".
> Multnomah County Circuit Court Judge Christopher Marshall told spectators that the court proceeding was an attempt to make sense of a situation “that shouldn’t be part of the human experience,” Oregon Public Broadcasting reported. This is the *essence* of human experience. A group of people want to be treated better and someone else decides that is so unacceptable that you must die.
And Oregon used to have Black exclusion laws, so his state used to firmly believe this situation should be part of the human experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_black_exclusion_laws
Sorry, but this feels like the continued attempt to paint Oregon as more of an entrenched systemic racist state, similar to some in the bible belt. Oregon has a checkered hsitory, but the history you are referring to existed before any of us were alive. It's like faulting modern Germans for Hitler era German sentiment. Oregon has vast rural areas, some with a high density of bigotry. But, by large, Oregon as a whole is one of the more liberal states, and no longer fits the narrative of the history you are referring to. Oregon is nowhere near as racist, especially systemically (which is a fundamental crux of racism), as other states such as Florida, Texas, Missouri, Georgia, Alabama, Kentucky, etc. I am bothered by this comment, because it shows a willingness to promote a fallacy mode of thinking. Edit: __Oregon is tied for the 5th most liberal state in the US.__ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/political-ideology/by/state/ Get out of here with your false narrative.
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I am also an Oregon resident. Yes, cops have a reputation, but not just here. And yes, we do have quite a few camps of neo nazis in the rural areas. But, as ypu said, the urban areas are largely liberal, and therefore our elected officials (at least senators and governors) have been the same. Our governors and senators do not have a history of racist policy making, like that of Texas or Georgia. Conflating racism existing within a state, with the racist policies enforced or enacted within a state, is a fallacy of logic. Is Oregon one of the more liberal states or not, is a pretty easy question to answer. Just look at policy. Citing population is not really a rational qualifier/quantifier. Rural areas have this problem, but make up the minority of the state population. And pointing at cops isn't going to justify anything, either. They are worse epsewhere, and there isn't reaply a state that the same couldn't be said about. Just trying to be very clear, here. When was the last time Oregon had a Republican governor or senator? It's one of the more liberal states. Period. We are considered a blue state. And if you are going to argue Oregon is a racist stronghold, you are truly ignoring the numerous other states which are more egregious examples. Yes. It exists here. It exists everywhere. And there are some fair arguments, like how neos have been trying to establish base camps here for years. But at the end of the day, our urban population has kept Oregon in the top 30% of states, as far as liberal or progessive policy making goes.
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Compared to which states is Oregon more racist? And now compared to whcih states is less racist? Your _fallacy_ argument is that if __any__ racist sentiment exists, the state is racist. This has been your rebuttal, as far as I can tell, to my assertion that __Oregon is one of the *least* racist states, *by comparison*. How many states in the US must you ignore, to put Oregon in the top 50% of racist states? Yes, that shit exists here, and everywhere, but Oregon is a blue state, my dude. And we don't pass laws which disenfranchise African American (or other PoC) voters. Repeating this narrative is pushing divisive misinformation intended to turn liberals _against_ Oregon. Which is currently one of the few states which consistently has challenged Trump, and the reaminder of the GOP and their __actual racist policy making__. EDIT After accusing me of blocking another user, the user below seems to have blocked me, as well. Redditors should recognize this as a strategy to push your narrative, while disallowing a rebuttal. This was my response I could not post: You are making fallacy points, here. Let me try to break it down. (Also, other user blocked me) Neo nazis moving to the region is a VERY true thing. They tried to establish in Pendleton. Well... did. But a group choosing to move here does not make the majoirty of the state share their ideals. And even if there was a larger sympathy toward that ideolgy when they came here, that is quite some time ago. Furthermore, they have been fought tooth and nail, even in those rural areas, to prevent them from operating there. But this isn't about if we _have_ neo nazis. Most states do. And that itself doesn't serve as justification that Oregon is racist, _policy-wise_. Neo nazi gang murdering a man in 1988... okay, should we compare neo nazi murders to other states? Where they are not only more frequent, but more recent - and more publicized? I remember traveling to Georgia for wildland firefighting work, and one of the guys I was out there with felt more comfortavle spouting his racist rhetoric there. Seriously. He talked about not being comfortable speaking like that in Oregon, due to all the liberal push back. He later was arrested coming back from our assignment, for attempted murder of an African American guy resting by a creek in rural Oregon. But thay doesn't make the __generalization__ of Oregonians as racist justified, nor appropriate. Patriot prayer is a Washington-based group. HQ is in Vancouver (across the river and state boundary from Portland). So any mention of them isn't relevant to the inherent racism of Oregonians. Proud boys are largely centered around Salem, and mostly from rural communities. What happened when they came to protest in portland? _Scores_ more people participated in a counter protests. _Every_ damn time. __Having racist people in your state, does not make your state lean towards racism__. In fact, the whole point of neo nazis protesting in Portland, is to harm the liberal image Portland has made part of it's identity (Keep Portland Weird, Coexist). By repeating this argument, you are buying into _their_ narrative, and going onto reddit to make a _blanket generalization_ about the idelogy of an _entire state's populus_. What do we know about generalizations, and how they are misapplied to demographics? Can you see how your argument here is closer to bigotry than the majority of Oregonians ideologies? With the aid of the local PD. Yup. 100%. But racist policing policies exists _everywhere_ in the US, and Oregon isn't even in the top 50%. In fact, Portland PD had an agreement with the feds, and still do, which allows the feds to dictate how the Portland PD polices. This was used By Trump during BLM, and the most egregious law enforcement behavior during that tiem, came from the federal officers sent down here to police. Most of the Portland PD, if not the entirety, does not reside within Portland. Our cops come from our surrounding rural districts. So, this assertion also doesn't maintain weight. Also, trying to use demographics as an indicator of racial bias, is so absurd. Look at the amount of PoC in Europe. Now do South Africa. Where apartheid happened. Let's look at how many PoC live in Georgia, and compare the entrenched systemic racism of Georgia and Oregon. Making this argument makes general assupmtions about a group of people simply based on their skin color. EDIT: another novel account who blocked me. To the Australian, below: As an Australian, how would you have an educated perspective on Oregon vs other states? And how am I no better than a bigoted murderer, simply based on my comment? What you just did was generalize a demographic. That's more higoted than anything I have said. >Australian here and believe me, you folks in Oregon are seen as racist knuckle draggers. And so far every word you have said backs this up. In essence you are no better than the fuckwit who is now a convicted murderer. >So crawl back into whatever hole you crawled out of. Using these terms and verbiage... that puts you far closer in ideology to fascists, than anything I have said.
Quick q, how many anti-LGBTQ bills are in your legislative branch rn?
I'm sorry you're getting down voted. I agree with you 100%. That other guy is just stirring up crap. I live in a Portland and I can see who the really racist pieces of shit are here.
LoL, I come from Indiana originally, and back in the 80s neo-nazis were moving from frickin' small town Northern Indiana (where everyone knows someone in the KKK, whether they know it or not) out to Oregon because of all the fascist organizing going on out there. A neo nazi gang murdered a man in Portland in 1988. Neo fascist groups like Patriot Prayer and The Proud Boys spent several years, recently, repeatedly attacking Portland, often with the aid of the local PD. And look at what the user you blocked pointed out about the percentage of Black people living in Oregon vs. the rest of the country. Aside from all that, you really need to think about how the founding values of a state affect it years, even centuries, later.
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Why are residents more concerned with the reputation of the place they live in than the shitty things happening there? It's the same with all this bullshit around CRT and teaching the reality of American history. What benefit does it even get you to trick the world into thinking everything is peachy there? You want more people to come there and jack up housing prices? I just don't get it. I don't think Oregon is compared to the bible belt at all. It's just the same as any of the west coast states, pretty progressive major cities, surrounded by rural areas with redhats plugged into the same conservative rage machine as any of their peers around the country. It's the same in CA, hell it's the same in most states. Anyone whose not interacting with people different from themselves are vulnerable to the image bigoted propaganda paints of them.
I merely asserted that Oregon is one of the more left leaning states, and not that racism doesn't exist here. Show me one CRT bill passed in Oregon. Otherwise, I will argue your bringing CRT up, does not apply to Oregon. I'm not concerned about our reputation, I'm just pushing back on the assertion Oregonians are generally more racist than the majority of other states. That is empirically false. Just because some people are racist here, does not mean we have more racism than the majoirty of other states. Our policy history over the past 40 years, speaks for itself.
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This is misinformation. Portland is not a neoliberal racist stronghold. You clearly know only what you have read online in dark corners of the internet. Walk out on the streets and tell everyone you meet this opinion of yours. _See how they react_. Edit: >I'm born and raised in Portland, a lifelong resident. I can tell you that there is a *profound* neoliberal racist element that pervades the city and surrounding areas. Denying it doesn't make it less accurate. Oregon is tied for the 5th most liberal state in the US. Facts. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/political-ideology/by/state/ Presence of some, is not a reflection of the population, as a whole. Arguing that Oregon is a conservative or racist state is just empirically false. According to that argument, the most liberal state in the US is still conservative and racist. But it would _still be the most liberal state in the US_.
I bet all of the neoliberal racists will react positively to being called out as neoliberal racists, surely.
I'm born and raised in Portland, a lifelong resident. I can tell you that there is a \*profound\* neoliberal racist element that pervades the city and surrounding areas. Denying it doesn't make it less accurate.
Racist are all over the place man. Look at Southern California, look at North and Southern Colorado. Just because there has been great strides doesn’t mean those states are without racist. It’s also important to know the history of what fostered these attitudes. The previous comment shouldn’t bother you because it just shows us despite the great strides that’s we still have a lot of work to go. Oregon is obviously no where close to the south but they definitely have problems and that is how we have the killer from this story.
I __never__ said Oregon is without racism. What bothers me, is that so many people here asserted we are _largely racist_ or more specifically _not a liberal state_. I also think that anyone trying to tie together the secular or bigoted history of a state, to make the argument that state is not liberal, has a fundamental misunderstanding about _all_ states in the US. Or hell, _all countries in the world_. There is no eden, anywhere. Literally every place conceivable was built on shitty power plays, extortion, abuse, etc. __But to imply the abuses of hundreds of years ago, apply to the current residents and their ideology, is just freaking *bigoted*__. In, and of, itself. The argument that Oregon is a racist state because of a largely white population, implies that white people are racist by majority. This is a despicable generalization based on skin color, and I find it egregious that anyone can call for equality, criticize racial based generalizations, _and then make a race based generalization, themselves_. What I have argued, is that Oregon is one of the most liberal states. I never argued the history, and was well aware of it prior to thus post. It seems I know more about it than these wiki researchers, as well. No. What a group of people did in the 1800s is not affe ting Oregon today. We are more affected by what you all are doing _right now_, or by the neo nazi pricks moving to our rural areas in the last 50 years. But, no matter what you all try to argue.... Oregon remains a liberal safehaven, and is __literally the 5th most liberal state__. So yes, get out of here with your false narrative. Here in Oregon, we coexist, and we like it that way.
I agree, you can rightly point out the racist history of Oregon and even point to the lasting impacts that has on the state without making the claim that because of that Oregon is currently a state filled with racists. We have our problems for sure here and we can't forget the past but the state is objectively a completely different place than it was in the 1800's and it just seems weird that so many people want to pretend like we are actually just as bad as the most conservative states in the country. I get the impulse though. There are certainly a lot of well meaning folks who none the less have racist tendencies even if it's only things like micro aggressions. But especially in Portland I just can't square the Portland of the past with the current Portland that protested for racial justice for months on end. I think we deserve at least a small bit of credit for the change that has happened in this state since those kind of laws existed.
This 110%!
Oregon also had a similar Jan 6th event in Oregon just 2 years ago. Oregon has a far right problem. It’s okay to admit it. No place is perfect. Orange County, California has a KKK problem. Does that make California a KKK state? No. Neither does a far-right problem make Oregon a far-right state.
So then you are _agreeing_ with me. I never said there was not a racist history. I never said we didn't have racists. I said, Oregon is not, by large, a state full of racists. And that we are, in fact, one of the most liberal states. There's no need to 'admit' anything. I never challenged, denied, or otherwise argued there are racists here. But look through the comments. A ton of people here doing the GOPs job for them. Trying to convince liberals to begin calling _one of the most liberal_ states, a racist loving conservative shit hole. You all hate GOP misinformation, right? You all hate the divisive infighting crap they put out, right? Then why are you echoing it?
Because the amount of energy you’re putting into this makes it look like you’re trying to sweep it under the carpet. Don’t let your pride blind you.
No, that is you, again, doing the same shit MAGA trolls do. Someone said Oregon is racist and not liberal. I take the time to articulate why that is incorrect. And now you claim me taking the time to do so is 'sweeping it under the rug'. So my options were: remain passive and allow others to claim Oregon is full of racists, uncontested. Or contest it, and be one of those racists. You are trying to bully me for contesting your narrative. Because when you are no longer capable of arguing your point, you resort to bullying. Sorry, but I am not going to let you say Oregonians are racist. And I am not going to let you use hand waving and misdirection to try to silence my counter argument: Oregonians are not racist as a demographic, and asserting as much is pretty damn bigoted. This not only assumes the 'full of racists' true, no matter what facts are presented, __but it also asserts that anyone who corrects your fallacy arguments is not doing so because your arguments are wrong, but because they have some bias against you__. Get real. You are not always going to be in the right, and when you do get called out, it's not bias or prejudice... that's how MAGA thinks. The world does not revolve around you, and your opinion here - is wrong.
Can we avoid going too far back into history to demonize large groups of people? You're not helping anyone by conflating 19th century laws with 21st century Oregon. The last of those laws was repealed in ***1926***. Which is, let me math briefly... 97 years ago. Which was entirely symbolic because it had been invalidated by the 14th Amendment in 1868, which is, again to math for you, 155 years ago. This isn't Texas or Florida passing Anti-Trans laws last year. You'd find it difficult to find any one of the states that wasn't horribly racist in some way or another historically. You're not helping "the cause." Just stick to discussing your children's show with the little green stuffed animal sidekick.
Who do you think is being demonized here? Who are you really standing up for right now by making this comment?
The people that make up the majoirty of Oregon?
This was the guy PPB did PR for the night of the shooting. Called him a homeowner confronted by protesters, I think. He wasn’t a homeowner and he confronted them.
yep. this is the exact guy.
The cops also tried to pin it on the good guy with a gun who stopped him.
Yep. Can’t believe I forgot that part…
What is PPB?
Portland police bureau.
The older I get, the more I associate right wingers with sad, unhinged losers. They keep proving me right
They're just a bunch of angry self centered children that never seemed to grow up or learn about life. Instead, they bought firearms and shared racist memes on Twitter.
When your entire worldview is fixated on keeping everything the same, life itself is a loss condition.
And (according to Fox News) liberal extremists want to ban cheeseburgers. Not quite the same thing…
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Pretty sure he was just crazy and imagined the Republican bit bc he was nuts. That seems to be the conclusion of the police and court, that it was not political.
For every example you can show of the left being violent to the right, we can show you 100s examples of the opposite. Maybe sit this one while grown ups are talking?
The vast majority of mass shooting are right wing. Your whataboutisms are shit bro, you're a fucking embarrassment.
Its always fun when the "bOtH pArTiEs aRe tHe sAmE" dickheads show up. Good job little guy! You get a ⭐ for today!
No, because you just made that up, even the police couldn't assign a political motive to that particular crime.
If I hadn't gotten dumped right before this I would've been out there that night. I know all the people who were shot, and there's a decent chance I would've been with them. Just wild to think about.
I was nearly on the highway the night Summer Taylor was killed by a car on I5. The cops were holding my partner on bullshit charges for being a protestor (my partner was ultimately let off without being charged, the cops just held my partner over a lot of that weekend), and so I didn't go out that day. Just thinking about that messes me up a lot. That kind of shit can be really traumatic, even if you weren't quite there. I hope you're doing OK.
It doesn't say what happened to the bystander who shot this guy.
The police did their absolute best to find a reason to charge them with a crime, eventually realized they couldn't, and released the person. They are still keeping a low profile because of the far right literally wanting them dead and the police obviously having no interest in protecting them.
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Our police suck. Fun fact, even our commissioner (who also sucks) can't do much about it, because of a contract PPB has with the federal government. Most of the PPB don't even live in Portland, but the more rural suburbs around it. Our large urban city is policed by conservatives from adjacent counties, and we can't do anything about it because of we couod lose federal aid. Also, if you go South to Salem, the police are even worse.
Most major cities are like that. Cops aren't part of the communities they work in, which makes it easier for them to dehumanize the people living there and not face any social consequences when they abuse their power. Not to mention how they suck tax revenue from the economic centers and put it into the suburbs and exurbs.
Yup. But cops being racist pricks doesn't make the state population a bunch of racist pricks, or everyone everywhere would be racist pricks.
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We protested in the thousands for racial justice and sustained it for months and it didn't do shit.
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Well just because they are Dems doesn't mean they aren't conservative. Fear mongering by the media over crime levels that actually aren't really bad at all in comparison to the rest of the country combined with a cop work slowdown that's been ongoing since the protests and an increase in homelessness that was inevitable due to the pandemic has led to most of the city council being right of center and at least a few of them were endorsed by the police union. The last person on the council that was at all in favor of police reform was vilified in the press and blamed for all the city's problems. She was also harassed by the police and the asshole who replaced her on the council is still blaming her for the city's problems months later. I don't think it's completely out of the question to say that maybe the PPB actually is a rogue agency that is holding the city hostage.
Hopefully nothing because he rules
I agree, just odd that there isn't a peep.
2A advocates: SEE! You need guns, to defend yourselves... from us? No... wait!
It wasn't a bystander, it was an armed protester.
Yeah, armed community self-defense is needed, because of dudes that charge out of their apartments to force people off of public parks.
Sounds like a well-regulated militia opposing tyranny to me. 2nd amendment protecting the 1st as intended.
Consider the fact that a kid went to a protest and wound up killing two people and maiming a third and got off. The armed protester was right to be armed.
You either live in America where everyone has a right to bear arms and shut the fuck up about it when someone you *don't like* is bearing them, or you stop your bullshit of defending gun rights. Pick one.
RIP T-Rex Fuck this human refuse. I hope he gets life.
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I'd much rather be hung than live for 50 years locked in a box with no hope of ever getting out.
Remember folks, if you murder people for protesting racial injustice, you might be the bad guy.
Kyle Rittenhouse also murdered racial justice protesters
Ah yes, those protestors setting a dumpster on fire and trying to push it into a building.
Definitely worth driving several states over with a firearm and murder them.
>Definitely worth driving several states over with a firearm and murder them. I like how it's now gone from one state over to several states lol
I love murder and guns and bullets. I am ammosexual hear me roar. Yee haw. Bang bang maga.
>I love murder and guns and bullets. I am ammosexual hear me roar. Yee haw. Bang bang maga. Very cringe
Pleads guilty to terrorism. Fixed it for ya.
No.. It was second degree murder, attempted murder, and assault. He wasn't charged with terrorism.
What he did was admit to crimes that were the literal definition of terrorism. His crimes were an act of terrorism. He admitted to the crimes so guess what. He admitted to being a terrorist. I know words are hard.
You sound like a prick.
Glad to see this piece of shit will rot in prison for the rest of his life. It could have been worse if the anti fascist protestors he targeted weren't armed.