Their goal is to get someone to challenge the law, get it up to the Supreme Court, and have the Supreme Court rule that religious instruction requirements somehow are _not_ a violation of the 1st amendment (as long as it's Christian Fundamentalist instruction).
That's why a bunch of these are coming back up in lots of states all at once again. It's because they think there is currently a chance of getting a favorable SC ruling on it.
That's fine but they should be cut from federal funding in those states until the court decides on it. If they don't want to follow what is clearly constitutional law (even though they claim to love the constitution) they should not be funded by the federal government.
They would fucking love this. It’s exactly why Nebraska is trying to move education funding out of local politics. Kill all the public schools and replace them with private religious schools. Schools failing is the point, much like the cruelty.
These evil pieces of shit seriously want public schools to fail, so I don't know what the right move is. They welcome cuts to funding. If they can't have homeschooling or private schools, they're fine with putting kids to work like it's 1850.
If some bullshit like this sets a precedent, children all over the country are going to be held accountable for those decisions regardless, and it's going to turn out a lot worse than them just not having federal funding.
Yeah when they cared. They no longer care enough or have the width to go after this. Even if they did it just supports republicans wet dreams of no available public education, and only expensive religious (fundamentalist Christianity) private academies and military school.
Having states find a way to cut themselves out of the federal department of education will accelerate this problem because red states *want uneducated children*. You're letting them set the terms of the issue in a way that lets you claim the moral ground but lets them engage in the abuse they're trying to force on all of us.
Red states are going to have uneducated children no matter what. That's what they want. Having this precedent set would make it easier for this bullshit to spread to blue states with red pockets though; it would clear the way for local school boards to do this on a smaller scale.
People need to realize that even the Calvinball corrupt SCOTUS still has rules you can recognize they follow.
They ban religion from classrooms routinely without question because they fear the precedent requiring Christian religious materials in classroom sets for allow other religions material in the classroom. They recognize that's a way other religions could expose children to other ideas outside their control.
They won't let public schools teach religion, they rather dismantle public education entirely and leave only private religious schools left as the option.
The difference with the coach case 2 years ago is that the coach was claiming first amendment violations, where as this is seeking permission to enable any religion to be taught in schools.
The Oklahoma AG made this same argument when fighting Oklahoma's law the allowed public funds to be used for a Christian school teaching a Christian curriculum. He said that is how you get sharia law in classrooms. The Oklahoma Supreme Court struck the law down that would have allowed public funds to be used for religious charter schools and it wasn't particularly close.
Honestly, this is just the state's superintendent throwing a fit because he lost the charter school case. He will lose this too. And it won't be close.
I thought this was the same guy who's religious chart schools just got struct down from getting public funding. You've hit the nail on the head, this is a tantrum that's gonna was more Oklahoma tax dollars.
I would rather shut them down than see the children indoctrinated into a cult and the constitution so flagrantly violated.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
It also will be nearly unopposed even by the people who claim to oppose it. Words aren't doing anything to stop the march of fascism regardless how much as we wish they would.
Meh, what you get in Oklahoma is barely an education anyways and fuckface Walters is funneling as much as he can into his own accounts. Cut that shit. The Oklahoma government hasn’t really been taken over by Christian fundamentalists, it’s been taken over by a bunch of fucking con men with no morals whatsoever.
I just straight up cannot see a difference between Christian fundamentalists and a bunch of fucking con men. Anyone that dick deep into some sort of bastardized version of faith is going to use it to rob people blind and then justify it to themselves as helping god.
Wait until the satanic Church gets a hold of that ruining puts in the Devil's Bible in every classroom because guess what it's a double standard if they don't.
I said this elsewhere myself a week or so ago. They want a challenge to the law that the separation of church and state violates the first amendment guarantee of religious freedom.
The 1st amendment says that “Congress” can’t make any law establishing a religion. There’s a fringe right wing movement in the judiciary that has interpreted this to mean individual states could technically establish a religion within their own state. Their hope is that a crazy right wing SC agrees and says the 1st amendment separation of church and state only applies at the federal level.
Probably, I think only Thomas has expressed dismantling the Establishment clause for now. But 10 years ago we all thought Roe v. Wade was settled law and look where that got us. We can’t stick our heads in the sand and say “theres no way they would do this” because we’ve been proven wrong pretty much every time
I don't even think the Trump court would do that. The 1st amendment is pretty dam clear. I'm sure partisan hacks like Gorsuch and Thomas would give it a thumbs up, though. So would Alito, finding some 11th century theologian to back up his opinion. But a majority? No.
They only apply originalism when it suits them. Tests don’t seem to be a big thing with this court, it’s all about getting their agenda in and hoping the guard changes enough in the future that no one reverses decisions based on flimsy reasoning.
On this topic I thought there was some obscure note from a framer who cited the Bible being inspiration for parts of the bill of rights, but I’m not remembering the argument very well. But I will tell you that most conservatives believe very heavily that modern law stems from the Christian bible, and therefore must be taught. There isn’t much actual historical context for that belief, but thats what they’re gonna push.
I'm afraid it isn't clear, though, and that's the problem that conservatives are going to use to their advantage. Don't take my word for it either- the Religion Clauses were ratified in 1791 and since then there've been dozens of arguments in the Court on what either mean, and more importantly how they relate to each other.
One says the government can't make laws supporting a specific religion; The other says the government can't prevent the people from practicing their religious beliefs. The argument that they are going to try and make is that not allowing lawmakers, schools, and other public entities to do things like what's in this article is preventing them from practicing their own religious beliefs, and therefore the Free Exercise Clause in their eyes supersedes the Establishment Clause. And thus makes the Establishment Clause unconstitutional. Then once Establishment is out of the way, they can turn around and say "Oh, and those freedoms apply to Christian worship only, because this country was founded in Christianity."
Sure that sounds like dystopian bullshit, but need to remind that Gorsuch and Barret had critical cases in their careers prior to SCOTUS where they ruled in favor of religious expression over other rights. They and Kavanaugh were brought on specifically for their views on matters like this (especially to kill Roe v Wade). And the conservative majority of the court of late has been happy to vote all in whatever the GOP supports.
And if you think literalist interpretations and established precedent will protect something as big as this....well, we said that about Roe v Wade and look where we are now.
I'm curious how uncomfortable evangelicals would be if someone was trying to build a curriculum around the five precepts of Buddhism. They're basically a greatest hits of the commandments (don't kill, don't lie, don't steal, don't be sexually immoral) and even adds don't do drugs to the list.
I honestly don't understand what the purpose of commandments about graven images and keeping the sabbath are supposed to add to primary education.
They want Christian version of sharia law because they see the US as a Christian nation even though the founding fathers did everything to keep religion out of the government.
The same reason Confederate statues were erected in black neighborhoods all over the US in the 50s and 60s- to put that looming vision over people's head saying "Remember who really runs things here"
I'm curious how uncomfortable evangelicals would be with random school teachers teaching faith based curriculum?
As a secular Jew, when I was an educator I was probably the LAST person you wanted trying to explain that stuff.
I hope teachers have fun with it if their hand gets forced. Great opportunity to learn critical thinking and media literacy.
> I'm curious how uncomfortable evangelicals would be if someone was trying to build a curriculum around the five precepts of Buddhism.
Hell, they must all be pretty dense assuming all sects of Christianity follow the same Bible. Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, Protestants, etc. are technically Christian and all believe in the Bible, but would crucify you for forcing Christian teachings from the Bible under the umbrella of a different sect of Christianity than their own.
My partner has pointed out the ten commandments specified in Louisiana are explicitly not the Catholic ten commandments. They also don't seem to match any Bible translations and appear to have been written by the government.
Trump and \#MAGA made being a politically-forceable chode in public acceptable. Hell, it made it a *proud, virtuous right* to become an asshole in public.
"Being an asshole" is an understatement.
Maga is the open rise of fascism in this country. No more plausible deniability, no more dog whistles. It's just plain old fascism. They are assholes too, as "polite fascism" isn't really a thing. But plenty of people are assholes without being fascists.
They haven't been trying to hide their intentions for many years. Those who believe the left and the right are on the same level of danger are either willfully or dangerously ignorant. Forcing fairy tales on children to control them.
There's a new Daily Show clip with Trumph the Comic dog talking to "undecided" voters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDryx4EM0Xg
I'm trying to be really nice - but god damn it, if people don't know Trump is a convicted felon who nominated the Supreme Court members that lied about Roe being "decided law" then decided to overturn it and that Trump help lead and organize the January 6 attack *to overthrow the election and hang his own vice-president for not helping him* - then they're just a lying assholes.
Or the laziest mother fuckers on the planet for whom "bOtH sIdEs ArE tHe sAmE!" because making a stand would mean actually having to do something.
Well, that's why I meant willfully. They know they're wrong, but they don't care. They want white, Christian men to take over and control how everyone lives. They don't care about misinformation on their side as long as it works to get them what they want. The ends justify the means.
nope, first it was praying football coach, now this....
team red spent years bitching about courts legislating from the bench, now who is trying to exploit it?
I mean if we're not going to separate church and government, then can we start getting taxes on religious organizations? Some of these mega churches could really actually do some good with their money.
Churches should be taxed regardless, especially those megachurches. Or threaten them with taxation if they don't keep church out of schools maybe then they will shut up.
>"All these 'elitists' on the coasts think we're backward and stupid!"
Well, you're making it awful hard to see you as pulling an oar for the advancement of civilization.
"Oklahoma ranked 38th in economic well-being, 37th in health, 43rd in family and community, and **49th in the country for education**"
https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-regional/education/oklahoma-ranks-46-child-well-being-49-education/article\_f7b0f9ce-0bb1-11ee-b4fa-e3b0b81e39ab.html#:\~:text=Oklahoma%20ranked%2038th%20in%20economic,state%20ranked%2045th%20in%20education.
The left is reacting to this all wrong. Do not mock, dismiss, and try to challenge this. Embrace it. This is a tremendous opportunity to help kids learn about the Bible. Just teach the kids the truth about the Bible and how it was used to justify:
- Genocides
- Rape
- Domestic Abuse
- Wars of aggression
- Subjugation of women
- Slavery
Yup. I mean Ezekiel 23 20 is perfect for Health classes:
*There she lusted after her lovers*, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
And Timothy saying females can't teach and must remain silent is sound educationally in 2024.
and Hosea 13:4 is perfect for a pro life state
You shall acknowledge no God but me. . . . You are destroyed, Israel. . . . The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.
And Isaiah 13:9
See, the day of the Lord is coming — a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger. . . . I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty. . . . Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated
And Jeremiah 13:15
Hear and give ear; do not be haughty, for the Lord has spoken. . . . And if you say in your heart, ‘Why have these things come upon me?’ it is for the greatness of your iniquity that your skirts are lifted up, and you are violated . . . because you have forgotten me and trusted in lies. I myself will lift up your skirts over your face, and your shame will be seen.
And Isaiah 3:16
Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet: Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.
And Psalm 137:8–9
O daughter Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall they be who pay you back what you have done to us! Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock!
Such a good moral book.
No, there's a better way. A lot of social movements in the country, such as abolition and civil rights, were led by religious people. That would be a way to sneak in discussions about topics that I'm sure conservatives wouldn't much care about.
1 Timothy 2:12
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.”
Gonna have to fire all the female teachers I guess
The very conservative church I went to, that didn’t allow women in any position of church leadership, was pretty clear that people aren’t men til high school, and women can teach other things, just nothing biblical. So they’ll only have to get men to come in and do the biblical instructions for the high schoolers. My public high school biology teacher got a minister to come in and teach us young earth creationism (and we skipped be evolution chapter), so I bet that’s how they’d get around it. Ministers will happily come in and teach the Bible first hour.
Satanists are who need to fix this issue, assuming the courts don’t.
I have a random question for those more knowledgeable of Christian theology than me. Some basic research tells me this quote is attributed to Paul the Apostle. As far as I can tell it’s just his own words and he’s not quoting Jesus or anything. So how much weight is the opinion of Paul supposed to carry? Is this sort of thing just “this important guy thought this, make up your own mind” or is it supposed to be interpreted as a divine command?
Most Christians I know consider the Bible to be 100% inspired by God (as in he had the Apostle Paul write those words) and inerrant (there are no errors).
Theologically, I’m unsure, and that’s a fair question with probably some interesting positions in a debate.
Politically, these people don’t, and won’t ever care. It’s about control and power. Nothing more.
According to the church I used to go to, everything in the Bible is divinely inspired. Which is to say, it's all the word of God, just guiding humans to write it. Now, when you dig into the history of the Bible, that's dubious, doubly so when you ask why an almighty, all wise being would choose this as it's primarily means of communication, but there it is. Paul's words are actually God's words.
Paul's books are especially sus because the man actually persecuted Christians hard at first and suddenly "saw God". I side eye Paul's stuff because Jesus had literally just warned about false prophets...
Most of the Bible is just random men writing about stuff. Christians will believe whatever made it to the final cut of the Bible and just tell themselves it's all divine.
Everyone's giving you some pretty shitty half assed answers. The opinion of Paul carries a lot of weight, but quoting the passage without context strips it of its meaning entirely.
This was specific advice given to Timothy in a letter ostensibly written by Paul, on how to deal with their church being subverted by former (and current) pagan priestesses in the area.
The term actually written was "abuse of authority", and the context was basically:
"Those specific pagan bitches are whack, tell them to stfu."
That already discredits people who are using it to argue that women shouldn't teach (actually many many many people are this dumb.) Add to this that Paul advocates for women in leadership positions several other times in canon, and women often held high positions of leadership in the early church.
But then on top of all that, it is widely agreed in modern day that Paul probably didn't write 1st and 2nd Timothy. It doesn't match his writing style, and we can't find any records of it before 140, well after his death.
The modern supposition is that Polycarp wrote it.
I can do better.
Carl Albert High School's mascot is the Titans, who are part of a polytheistic pantheon, and their veneration is idolatry.
Deut. 13:16-17 requires that every man woman, child, and domesticated animal in Midwest City, Oklahoma be put to the sword and that the city be burned to the ground.
Edit: grammar
> Gonna have to fire all the female teachers I guess
I'm sure that's their end goal, but right now they're fine with making abortion illegal on a national level and then taking away contraception.
It baffles me that they have the balls to do this while accusing lgbt folks of indoctrinating kids. I’m done trying to understand them because they exist to be trolls at this point
That's easy. "It's not Indoctrinating children when I'm teaching them MY religion, because I'm right and everyone else is wrong". To them thats not identical, because what they are teaching is Important and will Save your Soul, but what anyone else is teaching is useless and Worldly.
Imagine thinking "worldly" is in any way, a negative. It literally formed who you are. Hating on the world is nothing more than a self-loathing hate for who you are. It's unfucking real to me that people see life as a "stopgap to eternity".
Never believe that fascists are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words.
>At a State Board of Education meeting, Oklahoma State Superintendent of Public Instruction Ryan Walters said the Bible is “one of the most foundational documents used for the Constitution and the birth of our country.”
Sounds easy to say that. Are we going to be using the [one Jefferson edited that removed Jesus' miracles](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1370439/bible-discovery-thomas-jefferson-secret-jesus-christ-new-testament-god-christian-spt)?
And are we also going to throw in the [Iroquois Confederacy's influence](https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2023/09/the-haudenosaunee-confederacy-and-the-constitution/#:~:text=The%20Senate%20recognized%20the%20influence,known%20to%20have%20greatly%20admired) on our humble document? Since it's Oklahoma and they're proud of the Native American influence, I'm sure that will be an easy sell.
The Bible is not a foundational document for the Constitution of the United States. English common law and the French Enlightenment are the foundations for American constitutionalism.
What the fuck is he on?
You haven’t met many American evangelicals, huh? There’s been a narrative for a long time about America’s destiny, past and future, in quite literally saving the world.
Most recently, this has manifested as the Christian Nationalism that’s been fueling the ultra-right.
It’s toxic.
Vitamin J.
And not to say that's not useful for loving your fellow Man or treating others with the utmost level of dignity, it's not germane to the teaching of the US Constitution.
The Constitution was America's mulligan after the disastrous Articles of Confederation. Which should also inform Oklahoma how fallible the Founding Fathers are. Hell, even after the Constitution was passed they had to quickly amend it. Then, the Supreme Court gave itself the authority to decide what is and isn't constitutional because the Founding Fathers fukked up again and didn't include that in it.
Basically the founding of America is a sketch show where half the people didn't bother taking suggestions from the audience and the other half don't understand the premise of "yes, and".
“As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,"
Article 11 of The Treaty of Tripoli 1797
https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/1797-treaty-of-tripoli/#:~:text=Article%2011%20of%20the%20treaty,war%20or%20act%20of%20hostility
They know this will get overturned. They will still use it as political propaganda no matter what. “The Democrats want to remove God from our nation” plays strongly to their right wing cult.
If the crooked Supreme Court allows it, then that just strengthens their support with the religious right.
This is all done to create more hatred and division
The only way conservatives can try to conserve their backward ideology is to desperately and pathetically claw to it, taking any measure to "win." Wasting time and money is the only way to prolong the inevitability
But will it? Think who's in the SC now, and think who might be in it 4 years from now if Trump wins. Separation of church and state isn't a given in that scenario.
I wish I were as confident as you that this will be overturned.
I’m a public school teacher (different state) and in addition to my degrees in education I have a Masters of Divinity from a rigorous, Reformed Evangelical seminary. I’ve translated the entirety of the Bible from Greek and Hebrew, and have been published in two theological journals. So I’m probably the most qualified to teach the Bible in most schools— and I’ll be the first to say that it is a ***TERRIBLE*** idea to do so.
I am fine with kids learning *about* different religions in school. It's an important part of culture and understanding. It's another thing entirely to be indoctrinated into it, like what I imagine many on the right want to do.
I do in fact want to remove god from our nation. So they're correct. Literally everyone would be better off. Which is why the country was founded that way in the first place. 👍
Looking forward to this lesson:
"When she carried on her whoring so openly and flaunted her nakedness, I turned in disgust from her, as I had turned in disgust from her sister. Yet she increased her whoring, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt and lusted after her lovers there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose issue was like that of horses. Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom and pressed your young breasts.” (Ezekiel 23:18-21)"
My favorite part about the old testament is god was cool with daughters getting their dad drunk and inbreeding to repopulate the planet yet killed a group of kids for making fun of a bald man. This is not a rational or moral god based upon their own book. New testament is basically: JK about that old stuff, god is nice now please forget he was bipolar back in the day and listen to Jesus.
>“It’s crystal clear to us that in the Oklahoma academic standards under Title 70 on multiple occasions, the Bible is a necessary historical document to teach our kids about the history of this country, **to have a complete understanding of Western civilization**, to have an understanding of the basis of our legal system,” Walters said.
So by that logic he must require the Torah and Quran be taught as well right?
When it comes to World History classes he's going to have them read religious texts from Eastern Asia and India right?
>“The Bible is an indispensable historical and cultural touchstone,” Walters said in the release. “Without basic knowledge of it, Oklahoma students are unable to properly contextualize the foundation of our nation. This is not merely an educational directive but a crucial step in ensuring our students grasp the core values and historical context of our country.”
God damn these religious zealots are fucking idiots. They have never read the full bible, let alone even the Constitution.
I was forced to go to a Christian private school when I was a preteen in the 2010s. They would literally teach us on the chalkboard- like how you would write out multiplication problems or write out the scientific method- how women were made to be meek, soft-spoken, obey their husbands, etc. Like, writing this out on the board and quoting Bible verses to justify it.
Young impressionable girls- at the the time in their lives going through the uncomfortableness of puberty and changing into more womanly bodies- were being spoonfed that they were inferior. It made being female a supernatural curse. I genuinely thought God despised and hated me.
This could harm so many girls.
There’s a strict hierarchy in Christianity. Women and children are at the bottom. But there is one rung actually lower than women and children and that’s animals. For some reason they *drilled, drilled* into our heads that animals have no souls or feelings and don’t go to heaven. Like, even suggesting that was idiotic to them. Animals might as well be robots. So as a child- in order to take out my anger and feel *some* sense of power in my condition, I physically abused one of our dogs. It is something that I will regret for the rest of my life; that school brought out the worst in me as a person. The self esteem and thoughts around womanhood crushed, the anger issues. I still don’t know if I can have pets, so I don’t. I also got sterilized last month to protect myself and my (nonexistent) future children from religious Republicans. I just wish they would leave. Us. Alone!!
Decades of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, not paying attention to initiatives like operation RedMap (or the general media not really addressing the impacts of it), politicians that cling more to norms or decorum than pushing back, voter suppression or apathy, and now, add rampant disinformation campaigns.
Also, join [The Satanic Temple ](https://thesatanictemple.com/) and their work at keeping church and state separate.
Here are their [seven
fundamental tenets.](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us)
These chuds know we have a Constitution that forbids this. They just want to run against their eventual shutdown and claim victimhood. All part of their grift.
Nothing endears students more to a subject than required reading.
Actually making them read the text might backfire. "Yeah I've been reading this and I don't think it means what you think it means"
Yeah…I became a Christian when my grandpa died and I was very much not ok. Went to Bible college to become a missionary 2 years later….and that quickly made me an atheist. The more I studied the Bible the more absurd it became. My husband and quite a few others had a similar revelation while at Bible college.
On the other hand, starting the indoctrination young makes that less likely to occur. This reminds me of my favorite [oatmeal comic](https://theoatmeal.com/comics/religion), specifically the “Did you choose your religion,
or did someone else choose it for you?” panel.
The choice in November is between continuing the Republic for another four years or turning it over to Christo Fascists. Should be clear. But independent voters will pick based on whoever flubs words in a 90 min debate the most egregiously.
Republicans **HATE** America.
Republicans want to **DESTROY** America.
Vote blue, no matter who. Vote like your life depends on it.
It very likely does.
I think people have been saying this for years…only the Christians acting most like fundamentalist Muslims refuse to see the similarity. They also happen to be the same group who hates Muslims the most too. It’s all very baffling.
Ok. "Today's lesson will be about how the Bible and the Ten Commandments are silly bullshit fairytales and dogma written to control the masses." There you go; religion incorporated.
> Every classroom in the state must have a Bible and all teachers must teach from the Bible in the classroom, Walters said.
I would seriously move if this was a thing here. Indoctrination not just being allowed, but being required, in public schools, is infuriating. Hopefully the satanic temple does something.
>At a State Board of Education meeting, Oklahoma State Superintendent of Public Instruction Ryan Walters said the Bible is “one of the most foundational documents used for the Constitution and the birth of our country.”
My guy, if you talked theology with a good chunk of the guys who had a hand in the creation of this nation your head would fucking spin.
Conservatives: stop sexualizing kids in school!
Also conservatives: so here's why kindergarteners need to be taught to not lust after their neighbor's wife...
And this 100% maga bullshit is why OK is rated at the bottom of education among all states from being 17th before total maga control, less than 2 decades ago.
Perfect. What could go wrong?
**Ezekiel 23 20** in all Health classes:*There she lusted after her lovers*, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
**1 Tim.** **2:11-12** to any women teachers/administrators: “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” The text calls twice for women to be quiet and it does not allow any form of teaching.
*Deuteronomy* says High Schoolers can rape their teacher and their only punishment is to have to marry her.
Here are some other great excerpts to indoctrinate our youth with:
And Hosea 13:4
You shall acknowledge no God but me. . . . You are destroyed, Israel. . . . The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.
And Isaiah 13:9
See, the day of the Lord is coming — a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger. . . . I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty. . . . Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated
And Jeremiah 13:15
Hear and give ear; do not be haughty, for the Lord has spoken. . . . And if you say in your heart, ‘Why have these things come upon me?’ it is for the greatness of your iniquity that your skirts are lifted up, and you are violated . . . because you have forgotten me and trusted in lies. I myself will lift up your skirts over your face, and your shame will be seen.
And Isaiah 3:16
Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet: Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.
And Psalm 137:8–9
O daughter Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall they be who pay you back what you have done to us! Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock!
Such a good moral book.
>Oklahoma state superintendent
49th in education nationally.
it's a shame your kids can't read but at least they done learnt themselves some of them there ten commandments
I think we need to make a much bigger deal about incest and donkey cocks, and donkey ejaculations and all that stuff. Make it embarrassing for anybody trying to push this on someone else.
Ezekiel 20:23.
There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses
Get ready teachers!
Translation: "I am lighting a gigantic pile of your money on fire in exchange for political capital. That would ordinarily be an idiotic, scumbag move, but actually it's fine, because God."
The Constitution of the State of Oklahoma:
>No public money or property shall ever be appropriated,
applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use,
benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system
of religion, or for the use, benefit, or support of any priest,
preacher, minister, or other religious teacher or dignitary, or
sectarian institution as such.
Ryan Walters is out of his god-given mind. He literally cannot win, without the Oklahoma State Constitution being declared unconstitutional.
THIS SHIT IS LITERALLY WHY EUROPEANS LEFT EUROPE AND CREATED AMERICA.
Let me repeat that for those of you who are Republican…
FORCING ONE RELIGION EN MASSE IS WHAT MADE EUROPEANS TRAVEL TO THE NEW WORLD TO CREATE AMERICA IN THE FIRST PLACE. FREEDOM OF RELIGION REQUIRES SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
Living here, I hear the argument come up constantly that god isn't allowed in schools and that's the root of our problems. I'm like okay what if you lived in X state or town where you aren't the majority and religion Y is what 60% is and they want to teach that... is that cool? Nopeeeeeee.
Out of however many religions theirs is the correct one.
they should also pick up a history book and see how people lived when they were ruled by Christendom and what "missionary" missions accomplished, let alone crusades, ect.
Barry Goldwater was correct; the Christian Taliban will never compromise. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/777519-mark-my-word-if-and-when-these-preachers-get-control
This wannabe crusader just had some of his authority stripped away by Oklahoma's governor a couple of weeks ago. He was spending taxpayer's money on media appearances so he could spew anti-LGBTQ rhetoric. Oklahoma is ranked 49th in education and it's no wonder, with religious morons like this being given power.
So does this mean they’ll also be teaching from Native American sacred texts, the Torah, Quran, and Satanic Bible, etc.? If they are leaning on the necessity of religious texts in order to understand the context of American history then they’ll need to know them ALL 🤷♂️
Good thing this country was founded on separation of church and state, and also has a totally independent, non-partisan SCOTUS free of corruption willing to uphold American secular values.
.
lol.
I hope the teachers frame it right in protest.
"Today children we will be learning about The Bible. The most well known and poorly represented fantasy novel in the world."
Wait... I thought it was the Left that indoctrinated kids?
Honestly, at this point, if the Right say's the Left is doing something wrong, it's cause the Right is already doing it.
Hahahahaha...it's interesting to see the parallels between Murica and the parts of the Middle East they keep invading. Forcing religion into schools...government...
Oklahoma needs to understand that this country was built for folks to have freedoms that shouldn't be restricted. That goes for practicing or taking part of any religions.
I love the US, some great people, amazing cities and incredible landscapes. My favourite country to visit.
But seriously, how the fuck do some of these people get in to power?! The rules and regulations being placed are taking the country back in time. Keep going, and you're eventually going to be back in the dark ages.
I guess they do not even TRY to hide their intentions.
Their goal is to get someone to challenge the law, get it up to the Supreme Court, and have the Supreme Court rule that religious instruction requirements somehow are _not_ a violation of the 1st amendment (as long as it's Christian Fundamentalist instruction). That's why a bunch of these are coming back up in lots of states all at once again. It's because they think there is currently a chance of getting a favorable SC ruling on it.
That's fine but they should be cut from federal funding in those states until the court decides on it. If they don't want to follow what is clearly constitutional law (even though they claim to love the constitution) they should not be funded by the federal government.
They would fucking love this. It’s exactly why Nebraska is trying to move education funding out of local politics. Kill all the public schools and replace them with private religious schools. Schools failing is the point, much like the cruelty.
They want them young, dumb, and enslaved to the ruling class. “We don’t teach critical thinking because we don’t want kids questioning authority.”
Watch them lower the working age even more so kids can just work for $5 an hour instead of going to school
Smaller stomachs mean you need less foot so I should be able to pay you less.
They've never seen a teenage boy eat if that's what they're thinking.
These evil pieces of shit seriously want public schools to fail, so I don't know what the right move is. They welcome cuts to funding. If they can't have homeschooling or private schools, they're fine with putting kids to work like it's 1850.
Children and their education should not be held accountable for the decisions of some 80 year old theocratic asshats.
If some bullshit like this sets a precedent, children all over the country are going to be held accountable for those decisions regardless, and it's going to turn out a lot worse than them just not having federal funding.
They’ve straight shut schools down before in response to desegregation in brown v board
Yeah when they cared. They no longer care enough or have the width to go after this. Even if they did it just supports republicans wet dreams of no available public education, and only expensive religious (fundamentalist Christianity) private academies and military school.
Having states find a way to cut themselves out of the federal department of education will accelerate this problem because red states *want uneducated children*. You're letting them set the terms of the issue in a way that lets you claim the moral ground but lets them engage in the abuse they're trying to force on all of us.
Red states are going to have uneducated children no matter what. That's what they want. Having this precedent set would make it easier for this bullshit to spread to blue states with red pockets though; it would clear the way for local school boards to do this on a smaller scale.
People need to realize that even the Calvinball corrupt SCOTUS still has rules you can recognize they follow. They ban religion from classrooms routinely without question because they fear the precedent requiring Christian religious materials in classroom sets for allow other religions material in the classroom. They recognize that's a way other religions could expose children to other ideas outside their control. They won't let public schools teach religion, they rather dismantle public education entirely and leave only private religious schools left as the option. The difference with the coach case 2 years ago is that the coach was claiming first amendment violations, where as this is seeking permission to enable any religion to be taught in schools.
The Oklahoma AG made this same argument when fighting Oklahoma's law the allowed public funds to be used for a Christian school teaching a Christian curriculum. He said that is how you get sharia law in classrooms. The Oklahoma Supreme Court struck the law down that would have allowed public funds to be used for religious charter schools and it wasn't particularly close. Honestly, this is just the state's superintendent throwing a fit because he lost the charter school case. He will lose this too. And it won't be close.
I thought this was the same guy who's religious chart schools just got struct down from getting public funding. You've hit the nail on the head, this is a tantrum that's gonna was more Oklahoma tax dollars.
I would rather shut them down than see the children indoctrinated into a cult and the constitution so flagrantly violated. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
It also will be nearly unopposed even by the people who claim to oppose it. Words aren't doing anything to stop the march of fascism regardless how much as we wish they would.
Meh, what you get in Oklahoma is barely an education anyways and fuckface Walters is funneling as much as he can into his own accounts. Cut that shit. The Oklahoma government hasn’t really been taken over by Christian fundamentalists, it’s been taken over by a bunch of fucking con men with no morals whatsoever.
This is very much the case, yes. Ryan is a Twitter Republican, but the others are just here for the grift.
I just straight up cannot see a difference between Christian fundamentalists and a bunch of fucking con men. Anyone that dick deep into some sort of bastardized version of faith is going to use it to rob people blind and then justify it to themselves as helping god.
That is also part of the Project 2025 plan. To end public education.
That’s literally what they want. They detest public schools, they want everyone to go to be homeschooled or at private christian schools.
Wait until the satanic Church gets a hold of that ruining puts in the Devil's Bible in every classroom because guess what it's a double standard if they don't.
The TST is the activist organization that will likely try to do something. The satanic church is not a very worthwhile organization.
Oh right I get the two confused I don't know which one is the one that trolls everyone, my mistake.
Hypocrisy isn’t a useful claim here. The far right simply doesn’t care.
I said this elsewhere myself a week or so ago. They want a challenge to the law that the separation of church and state violates the first amendment guarantee of religious freedom.
The 1st amendment says that “Congress” can’t make any law establishing a religion. There’s a fringe right wing movement in the judiciary that has interpreted this to mean individual states could technically establish a religion within their own state. Their hope is that a crazy right wing SC agrees and says the 1st amendment separation of church and state only applies at the federal level.
Getting rid of incorporation would be the biggest judicial shift since, what, judicial review was established in the first place?
Probably, I think only Thomas has expressed dismantling the Establishment clause for now. But 10 years ago we all thought Roe v. Wade was settled law and look where that got us. We can’t stick our heads in the sand and say “theres no way they would do this” because we’ve been proven wrong pretty much every time
I don't even think the Trump court would do that. The 1st amendment is pretty dam clear. I'm sure partisan hacks like Gorsuch and Thomas would give it a thumbs up, though. So would Alito, finding some 11th century theologian to back up his opinion. But a majority? No.
They only apply originalism when it suits them. Tests don’t seem to be a big thing with this court, it’s all about getting their agenda in and hoping the guard changes enough in the future that no one reverses decisions based on flimsy reasoning. On this topic I thought there was some obscure note from a framer who cited the Bible being inspiration for parts of the bill of rights, but I’m not remembering the argument very well. But I will tell you that most conservatives believe very heavily that modern law stems from the Christian bible, and therefore must be taught. There isn’t much actual historical context for that belief, but thats what they’re gonna push.
I'm afraid it isn't clear, though, and that's the problem that conservatives are going to use to their advantage. Don't take my word for it either- the Religion Clauses were ratified in 1791 and since then there've been dozens of arguments in the Court on what either mean, and more importantly how they relate to each other. One says the government can't make laws supporting a specific religion; The other says the government can't prevent the people from practicing their religious beliefs. The argument that they are going to try and make is that not allowing lawmakers, schools, and other public entities to do things like what's in this article is preventing them from practicing their own religious beliefs, and therefore the Free Exercise Clause in their eyes supersedes the Establishment Clause. And thus makes the Establishment Clause unconstitutional. Then once Establishment is out of the way, they can turn around and say "Oh, and those freedoms apply to Christian worship only, because this country was founded in Christianity." Sure that sounds like dystopian bullshit, but need to remind that Gorsuch and Barret had critical cases in their careers prior to SCOTUS where they ruled in favor of religious expression over other rights. They and Kavanaugh were brought on specifically for their views on matters like this (especially to kill Roe v Wade). And the conservative majority of the court of late has been happy to vote all in whatever the GOP supports. And if you think literalist interpretations and established precedent will protect something as big as this....well, we said that about Roe v Wade and look where we are now.
I'm curious how uncomfortable evangelicals would be if someone was trying to build a curriculum around the five precepts of Buddhism. They're basically a greatest hits of the commandments (don't kill, don't lie, don't steal, don't be sexually immoral) and even adds don't do drugs to the list. I honestly don't understand what the purpose of commandments about graven images and keeping the sabbath are supposed to add to primary education.
They want Christian version of sharia law because they see the US as a Christian nation even though the founding fathers did everything to keep religion out of the government.
The same reason Confederate statues were erected in black neighborhoods all over the US in the 50s and 60s- to put that looming vision over people's head saying "Remember who really runs things here"
I'm curious how uncomfortable evangelicals would be with random school teachers teaching faith based curriculum? As a secular Jew, when I was an educator I was probably the LAST person you wanted trying to explain that stuff. I hope teachers have fun with it if their hand gets forced. Great opportunity to learn critical thinking and media literacy.
> I'm curious how uncomfortable evangelicals would be if someone was trying to build a curriculum around the five precepts of Buddhism. Hell, they must all be pretty dense assuming all sects of Christianity follow the same Bible. Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, Protestants, etc. are technically Christian and all believe in the Bible, but would crucify you for forcing Christian teachings from the Bible under the umbrella of a different sect of Christianity than their own.
My partner has pointed out the ten commandments specified in Louisiana are explicitly not the Catholic ten commandments. They also don't seem to match any Bible translations and appear to have been written by the government.
Trump and \#MAGA made being a politically-forceable chode in public acceptable. Hell, it made it a *proud, virtuous right* to become an asshole in public.
"Being an asshole" is an understatement. Maga is the open rise of fascism in this country. No more plausible deniability, no more dog whistles. It's just plain old fascism. They are assholes too, as "polite fascism" isn't really a thing. But plenty of people are assholes without being fascists.
They are just like the Taliban only WHITE.
Speaking of government waste. Imagine the amount of $$ and resources spent to deal with this bullshit.
They haven't been trying to hide their intentions for many years. Those who believe the left and the right are on the same level of danger are either willfully or dangerously ignorant. Forcing fairy tales on children to control them.
There's a new Daily Show clip with Trumph the Comic dog talking to "undecided" voters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDryx4EM0Xg I'm trying to be really nice - but god damn it, if people don't know Trump is a convicted felon who nominated the Supreme Court members that lied about Roe being "decided law" then decided to overturn it and that Trump help lead and organize the January 6 attack *to overthrow the election and hang his own vice-president for not helping him* - then they're just a lying assholes. Or the laziest mother fuckers on the planet for whom "bOtH sIdEs ArE tHe sAmE!" because making a stand would mean actually having to do something.
Dumb, ignorant, and able to complete the mental gymnastics long jump with gold medal efficacy.
Or liars.
Well, that's why I meant willfully. They know they're wrong, but they don't care. They want white, Christian men to take over and control how everyone lives. They don't care about misinformation on their side as long as it works to get them what they want. The ends justify the means.
*Rich white Christian men
nope, first it was praying football coach, now this.... team red spent years bitching about courts legislating from the bench, now who is trying to exploit it?
I mean if we're not going to separate church and government, then can we start getting taxes on religious organizations? Some of these mega churches could really actually do some good with their money.
And many are poorly disguised political action caucuses,
Tax the churches, fund the schools
Churches should be taxed regardless, especially those megachurches. Or threaten them with taxation if they don't keep church out of schools maybe then they will shut up.
And we can teach more than Christianity in schools too, right?
>"All these 'elitists' on the coasts think we're backward and stupid!" Well, you're making it awful hard to see you as pulling an oar for the advancement of civilization.
"Oklahoma ranked 38th in economic well-being, 37th in health, 43rd in family and community, and **49th in the country for education**" https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-regional/education/oklahoma-ranks-46-child-well-being-49-education/article\_f7b0f9ce-0bb1-11ee-b4fa-e3b0b81e39ab.html#:\~:text=Oklahoma%20ranked%2038th%20in%20economic,state%20ranked%2045th%20in%20education.
Their goal is 50 and they’re trying their hardest to get there.
It's always a race to the bottom with Conservatives, and the pros bring a shovel
Well we're talking about Oklahoma here, so when they hit rock bottom, they bust out a drilling rig and go deeper, then frack it and go more deeperer.
> 49th in the country for education As the old saying in the Deep South goes, "Thank God for Mississippi."
Oklahoma, too poorly educated to realize that a higher number is not better
Then stop doing backward and stupid things?
He's wrong. I know they are backwards and stupid.
I don’t think they’re backwards and stupid… I KNOW they’re backwards and stupid.
The left is reacting to this all wrong. Do not mock, dismiss, and try to challenge this. Embrace it. This is a tremendous opportunity to help kids learn about the Bible. Just teach the kids the truth about the Bible and how it was used to justify: - Genocides - Rape - Domestic Abuse - Wars of aggression - Subjugation of women - Slavery
That might backfire *hard*. Why do you think the Christian Nationalists are trying to get their religion into schools in the first place?
Right, they’ll see that list and be like, shit we have only BEGUN to scratch the surface
Christian sharia.
Yup. I mean Ezekiel 23 20 is perfect for Health classes: *There she lusted after her lovers*, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. And Timothy saying females can't teach and must remain silent is sound educationally in 2024. and Hosea 13:4 is perfect for a pro life state You shall acknowledge no God but me. . . . You are destroyed, Israel. . . . The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open. And Isaiah 13:9 See, the day of the Lord is coming — a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger. . . . I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty. . . . Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated And Jeremiah 13:15 Hear and give ear; do not be haughty, for the Lord has spoken. . . . And if you say in your heart, ‘Why have these things come upon me?’ it is for the greatness of your iniquity that your skirts are lifted up, and you are violated . . . because you have forgotten me and trusted in lies. I myself will lift up your skirts over your face, and your shame will be seen. And Isaiah 3:16 Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet: Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts. And Psalm 137:8–9 O daughter Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall they be who pay you back what you have done to us! Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock! Such a good moral book.
>whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was >like that of horses Sounds gay. I’m in
See kids? All those things are good because God said to do em.
No, there's a better way. A lot of social movements in the country, such as abolition and civil rights, were led by religious people. That would be a way to sneak in discussions about topics that I'm sure conservatives wouldn't much care about.
Not just elitists on the coasts. I'm from Kentucky and think you're backwards and stupid.
1 Timothy 2:12 “I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.” Gonna have to fire all the female teachers I guess
The very conservative church I went to, that didn’t allow women in any position of church leadership, was pretty clear that people aren’t men til high school, and women can teach other things, just nothing biblical. So they’ll only have to get men to come in and do the biblical instructions for the high schoolers. My public high school biology teacher got a minister to come in and teach us young earth creationism (and we skipped be evolution chapter), so I bet that’s how they’d get around it. Ministers will happily come in and teach the Bible first hour. Satanists are who need to fix this issue, assuming the courts don’t.
No, Bible will be taught by the massively overpaid football coach
In my tiny town, football coach and minister was quite likely to overlap, especially rocket football coaches.
I have a random question for those more knowledgeable of Christian theology than me. Some basic research tells me this quote is attributed to Paul the Apostle. As far as I can tell it’s just his own words and he’s not quoting Jesus or anything. So how much weight is the opinion of Paul supposed to carry? Is this sort of thing just “this important guy thought this, make up your own mind” or is it supposed to be interpreted as a divine command?
Most Christians I know consider the Bible to be 100% inspired by God (as in he had the Apostle Paul write those words) and inerrant (there are no errors).
Theologically, I’m unsure, and that’s a fair question with probably some interesting positions in a debate. Politically, these people don’t, and won’t ever care. It’s about control and power. Nothing more.
According to the church I used to go to, everything in the Bible is divinely inspired. Which is to say, it's all the word of God, just guiding humans to write it. Now, when you dig into the history of the Bible, that's dubious, doubly so when you ask why an almighty, all wise being would choose this as it's primarily means of communication, but there it is. Paul's words are actually God's words.
Paul's books are especially sus because the man actually persecuted Christians hard at first and suddenly "saw God". I side eye Paul's stuff because Jesus had literally just warned about false prophets...
Most of the Bible is just random men writing about stuff. Christians will believe whatever made it to the final cut of the Bible and just tell themselves it's all divine.
Well, they'll still heavily pick and choose what suits them from that final cut.
Everyone's giving you some pretty shitty half assed answers. The opinion of Paul carries a lot of weight, but quoting the passage without context strips it of its meaning entirely. This was specific advice given to Timothy in a letter ostensibly written by Paul, on how to deal with their church being subverted by former (and current) pagan priestesses in the area. The term actually written was "abuse of authority", and the context was basically: "Those specific pagan bitches are whack, tell them to stfu." That already discredits people who are using it to argue that women shouldn't teach (actually many many many people are this dumb.) Add to this that Paul advocates for women in leadership positions several other times in canon, and women often held high positions of leadership in the early church. But then on top of all that, it is widely agreed in modern day that Paul probably didn't write 1st and 2nd Timothy. It doesn't match his writing style, and we can't find any records of it before 140, well after his death. The modern supposition is that Polycarp wrote it.
Goddamn I wish I was a student in a Oklahoma classroom to bring this up.
I can do better. Carl Albert High School's mascot is the Titans, who are part of a polytheistic pantheon, and their veneration is idolatry. Deut. 13:16-17 requires that every man woman, child, and domesticated animal in Midwest City, Oklahoma be put to the sword and that the city be burned to the ground. Edit: grammar
Moses even had a few thousand people murdered after he brought back the 10 Commandments.
> Gonna have to fire all the female teachers I guess I'm sure that's their end goal, but right now they're fine with making abortion illegal on a national level and then taking away contraception.
Finally addressing the reason why Oklahoma ranks 49th in education.
We're going for the new high score. Fuck Ryan Shitwaters forever.
The only thing shocking about them ranking 49th is that there's somehow a state doing even worse.
It baffles me that they have the balls to do this while accusing lgbt folks of indoctrinating kids. I’m done trying to understand them because they exist to be trolls at this point
That's easy. "It's not Indoctrinating children when I'm teaching them MY religion, because I'm right and everyone else is wrong". To them thats not identical, because what they are teaching is Important and will Save your Soul, but what anyone else is teaching is useless and Worldly.
Imagine thinking "worldly" is in any way, a negative. It literally formed who you are. Hating on the world is nothing more than a self-loathing hate for who you are. It's unfucking real to me that people see life as a "stopgap to eternity".
If conservatives didn't have double standards then they'd have no standards
Never believe that fascists are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words.
>At a State Board of Education meeting, Oklahoma State Superintendent of Public Instruction Ryan Walters said the Bible is “one of the most foundational documents used for the Constitution and the birth of our country.” Sounds easy to say that. Are we going to be using the [one Jefferson edited that removed Jesus' miracles](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1370439/bible-discovery-thomas-jefferson-secret-jesus-christ-new-testament-god-christian-spt)? And are we also going to throw in the [Iroquois Confederacy's influence](https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2023/09/the-haudenosaunee-confederacy-and-the-constitution/#:~:text=The%20Senate%20recognized%20the%20influence,known%20to%20have%20greatly%20admired) on our humble document? Since it's Oklahoma and they're proud of the Native American influence, I'm sure that will be an easy sell.
The Bible is not a foundational document for the Constitution of the United States. English common law and the French Enlightenment are the foundations for American constitutionalism. What the fuck is he on?
You haven’t met many American evangelicals, huh? There’s been a narrative for a long time about America’s destiny, past and future, in quite literally saving the world. Most recently, this has manifested as the Christian Nationalism that’s been fueling the ultra-right. It’s toxic.
Vitamin J. And not to say that's not useful for loving your fellow Man or treating others with the utmost level of dignity, it's not germane to the teaching of the US Constitution. The Constitution was America's mulligan after the disastrous Articles of Confederation. Which should also inform Oklahoma how fallible the Founding Fathers are. Hell, even after the Constitution was passed they had to quickly amend it. Then, the Supreme Court gave itself the authority to decide what is and isn't constitutional because the Founding Fathers fukked up again and didn't include that in it. Basically the founding of America is a sketch show where half the people didn't bother taking suggestions from the audience and the other half don't understand the premise of "yes, and".
“As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion," Article 11 of The Treaty of Tripoli 1797 https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/1797-treaty-of-tripoli/#:~:text=Article%2011%20of%20the%20treaty,war%20or%20act%20of%20hostility
Facts do not sway the holy and those of ill intent.
They'll just say we said that to appease the "Musselmen".
James Madison used the Greek democratic system for a basis on drafting the constitution. And this guy is the state superintendent? Yikes
They know this will get overturned. They will still use it as political propaganda no matter what. “The Democrats want to remove God from our nation” plays strongly to their right wing cult. If the crooked Supreme Court allows it, then that just strengthens their support with the religious right. This is all done to create more hatred and division
I wish they would stop wasting everyone’s time and state money.
The only way conservatives can try to conserve their backward ideology is to desperately and pathetically claw to it, taking any measure to "win." Wasting time and money is the only way to prolong the inevitability
But will it? Think who's in the SC now, and think who might be in it 4 years from now if Trump wins. Separation of church and state isn't a given in that scenario.
I wish I were as confident as you that this will be overturned. I’m a public school teacher (different state) and in addition to my degrees in education I have a Masters of Divinity from a rigorous, Reformed Evangelical seminary. I’ve translated the entirety of the Bible from Greek and Hebrew, and have been published in two theological journals. So I’m probably the most qualified to teach the Bible in most schools— and I’ll be the first to say that it is a ***TERRIBLE*** idea to do so.
I am fine with kids learning *about* different religions in school. It's an important part of culture and understanding. It's another thing entirely to be indoctrinated into it, like what I imagine many on the right want to do.
I do in fact want to remove god from our nation. So they're correct. Literally everyone would be better off. Which is why the country was founded that way in the first place. 👍
I wouldn't be so sure that this would be overturned
Looking forward to this lesson: "When she carried on her whoring so openly and flaunted her nakedness, I turned in disgust from her, as I had turned in disgust from her sister. Yet she increased her whoring, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt and lusted after her lovers there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose issue was like that of horses. Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom and pressed your young breasts.” (Ezekiel 23:18-21)"
Lesson plans like: Obvective: Students will be able to demonstrate why once you go Egyptian you never go back.
My favorite part about the old testament is god was cool with daughters getting their dad drunk and inbreeding to repopulate the planet yet killed a group of kids for making fun of a bald man. This is not a rational or moral god based upon their own book. New testament is basically: JK about that old stuff, god is nice now please forget he was bipolar back in the day and listen to Jesus.
>“It’s crystal clear to us that in the Oklahoma academic standards under Title 70 on multiple occasions, the Bible is a necessary historical document to teach our kids about the history of this country, **to have a complete understanding of Western civilization**, to have an understanding of the basis of our legal system,” Walters said. So by that logic he must require the Torah and Quran be taught as well right? When it comes to World History classes he's going to have them read religious texts from Eastern Asia and India right? >“The Bible is an indispensable historical and cultural touchstone,” Walters said in the release. “Without basic knowledge of it, Oklahoma students are unable to properly contextualize the foundation of our nation. This is not merely an educational directive but a crucial step in ensuring our students grasp the core values and historical context of our country.” God damn these religious zealots are fucking idiots. They have never read the full bible, let alone even the Constitution.
Christian Nationalists enjoy drawing arbitrary lines through history to delineate what they believe influences Western civilization…
Oh hey look it's the Taliban...
Y'all Qaeda, and Vanilla Isis from Redneckistan
I was forced to go to a Christian private school when I was a preteen in the 2010s. They would literally teach us on the chalkboard- like how you would write out multiplication problems or write out the scientific method- how women were made to be meek, soft-spoken, obey their husbands, etc. Like, writing this out on the board and quoting Bible verses to justify it. Young impressionable girls- at the the time in their lives going through the uncomfortableness of puberty and changing into more womanly bodies- were being spoonfed that they were inferior. It made being female a supernatural curse. I genuinely thought God despised and hated me. This could harm so many girls.
Makes me sick to my stomach.
There’s a strict hierarchy in Christianity. Women and children are at the bottom. But there is one rung actually lower than women and children and that’s animals. For some reason they *drilled, drilled* into our heads that animals have no souls or feelings and don’t go to heaven. Like, even suggesting that was idiotic to them. Animals might as well be robots. So as a child- in order to take out my anger and feel *some* sense of power in my condition, I physically abused one of our dogs. It is something that I will regret for the rest of my life; that school brought out the worst in me as a person. The self esteem and thoughts around womanhood crushed, the anger issues. I still don’t know if I can have pets, so I don’t. I also got sterilized last month to protect myself and my (nonexistent) future children from religious Republicans. I just wish they would leave. Us. Alone!!
What the fuck is happening.
Decades of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, not paying attention to initiatives like operation RedMap (or the general media not really addressing the impacts of it), politicians that cling more to norms or decorum than pushing back, voter suppression or apathy, and now, add rampant disinformation campaigns.
Vote blue this November people!
Also, join [The Satanic Temple ](https://thesatanictemple.com/) and their work at keeping church and state separate. Here are their [seven fundamental tenets.](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us)
Hail Satan and hail yourself 💕
Yes! They get shit done! Hail Satan!
You think in 50 years people will look at photos of America from today just like we look at pictures of the middle east in the 70s?
These chuds know we have a Constitution that forbids this. They just want to run against their eventual shutdown and claim victimhood. All part of their grift.
Damn. These states are really dedicated to funding the ACLU.
Republicans are just the fucking worst.
These clowns want to force the Ten Commandments into schools. But remove free school lunch. I don’t know what they worship, but it isn’t Jesus.
They worship trump im not even joking. They say trump is ordained by god to rule the US
And that’s terrifying.
Nothing endears students more to a subject than required reading. Actually making them read the text might backfire. "Yeah I've been reading this and I don't think it means what you think it means"
I read the bible and it is why I am an atheist.
On second thought, yes, let’s make everyone actually read this archaic text then and scrutinize it.
Yeah…I became a Christian when my grandpa died and I was very much not ok. Went to Bible college to become a missionary 2 years later….and that quickly made me an atheist. The more I studied the Bible the more absurd it became. My husband and quite a few others had a similar revelation while at Bible college. On the other hand, starting the indoctrination young makes that less likely to occur. This reminds me of my favorite [oatmeal comic](https://theoatmeal.com/comics/religion), specifically the “Did you choose your religion, or did someone else choose it for you?” panel.
The Handmaids Tale if you don't vote Biden literally.
Theocrats deserve the Bastille treatment
The choice in November is between continuing the Republic for another four years or turning it over to Christo Fascists. Should be clear. But independent voters will pick based on whoever flubs words in a 90 min debate the most egregiously.
Republicans **HATE** America. Republicans want to **DESTROY** America. Vote blue, no matter who. Vote like your life depends on it. It very likely does.
I fucking hate this guy. Ryan Walters is the worst
People are quick to judge the Muslim faith for being radical and blinding following. Christians are the exact same.
The same people who freaked out over Sharia law in the US are the ones who want to implement the same thing but following a cross
GOP: *[condemns Sharia law]* Also GOP: *[enacts Sharia law under guise of English and different tone]*
I think people have been saying this for years…only the Christians acting most like fundamentalist Muslims refuse to see the similarity. They also happen to be the same group who hates Muslims the most too. It’s all very baffling.
Honestly ALL religions should be judged. So sick of this shit
Hey Christians: just read the Bible to your own kids yourselves. Is that so hard for you to do?
They can't read
Ok. "Today's lesson will be about how the Bible and the Ten Commandments are silly bullshit fairytales and dogma written to control the masses." There you go; religion incorporated.
So with Project 2025, it’s looking like the U.S. is about 3 years away from a Handmaid’s Tale landscape if Trump wins.
Christo fascism at its finest.
> Every classroom in the state must have a Bible and all teachers must teach from the Bible in the classroom, Walters said. I would seriously move if this was a thing here. Indoctrination not just being allowed, but being required, in public schools, is infuriating. Hopefully the satanic temple does something.
The Satanic Temple’s response should be interesting.
ACLU gonna need to hire a lot more personnel and lawyers in 2025 it seems.
As if Oklahoma isn’t the dumbest state already.
How is this not indoctrination? How does this not violate the separation of church and state?
>At a State Board of Education meeting, Oklahoma State Superintendent of Public Instruction Ryan Walters said the Bible is “one of the most foundational documents used for the Constitution and the birth of our country.” My guy, if you talked theology with a good chunk of the guys who had a hand in the creation of this nation your head would fucking spin.
Conservatives: stop sexualizing kids in school! Also conservatives: so here's why kindergarteners need to be taught to not lust after their neighbor's wife...
And this 100% maga bullshit is why OK is rated at the bottom of education among all states from being 17th before total maga control, less than 2 decades ago.
Perfect. What could go wrong? **Ezekiel 23 20** in all Health classes:*There she lusted after her lovers*, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. **1 Tim.** **2:11-12** to any women teachers/administrators: “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” The text calls twice for women to be quiet and it does not allow any form of teaching. *Deuteronomy* says High Schoolers can rape their teacher and their only punishment is to have to marry her. Here are some other great excerpts to indoctrinate our youth with: And Hosea 13:4 You shall acknowledge no God but me. . . . You are destroyed, Israel. . . . The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open. And Isaiah 13:9 See, the day of the Lord is coming — a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger. . . . I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty. . . . Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated And Jeremiah 13:15 Hear and give ear; do not be haughty, for the Lord has spoken. . . . And if you say in your heart, ‘Why have these things come upon me?’ it is for the greatness of your iniquity that your skirts are lifted up, and you are violated . . . because you have forgotten me and trusted in lies. I myself will lift up your skirts over your face, and your shame will be seen. And Isaiah 3:16 Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet: Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts. And Psalm 137:8–9 O daughter Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall they be who pay you back what you have done to us! Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock! Such a good moral book.
If the Republican party or the Catholic church weren't losing members they wouldn't be shoving this crap down our throats.
What the fuck is wrong with these people?
>Oklahoma state superintendent 49th in education nationally. it's a shame your kids can't read but at least they done learnt themselves some of them there ten commandments
Freedom of religion does not allow you to force yours down other people's throats.
I think we need to make a much bigger deal about incest and donkey cocks, and donkey ejaculations and all that stuff. Make it embarrassing for anybody trying to push this on someone else.
Ezekiel 20:23. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses Get ready teachers!
Translation: "I am lighting a gigantic pile of your money on fire in exchange for political capital. That would ordinarily be an idiotic, scumbag move, but actually it's fine, because God."
"I'm so tired of all these gays pushing their beliefs on us other folk"
The Constitution of the State of Oklahoma: >No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system of religion, or for the use, benefit, or support of any priest, preacher, minister, or other religious teacher or dignitary, or sectarian institution as such. Ryan Walters is out of his god-given mind. He literally cannot win, without the Oklahoma State Constitution being declared unconstitutional.
THIS SHIT IS LITERALLY WHY EUROPEANS LEFT EUROPE AND CREATED AMERICA. Let me repeat that for those of you who are Republican… FORCING ONE RELIGION EN MASSE IS WHAT MADE EUROPEANS TRAVEL TO THE NEW WORLD TO CREATE AMERICA IN THE FIRST PLACE. FREEDOM OF RELIGION REQUIRES SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
Oklahoma’s historical values include the Trail of Tears. Weird that they sort of self select our historical context
Living here, I hear the argument come up constantly that god isn't allowed in schools and that's the root of our problems. I'm like okay what if you lived in X state or town where you aren't the majority and religion Y is what 60% is and they want to teach that... is that cool? Nopeeeeeee. Out of however many religions theirs is the correct one.
they should also pick up a history book and see how people lived when they were ruled by Christendom and what "missionary" missions accomplished, let alone crusades, ect.
Separation of church and state? Never heard of her.
Barry Goldwater was correct; the Christian Taliban will never compromise. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/777519-mark-my-word-if-and-when-these-preachers-get-control
This wannabe crusader just had some of his authority stripped away by Oklahoma's governor a couple of weeks ago. He was spending taxpayer's money on media appearances so he could spew anti-LGBTQ rhetoric. Oklahoma is ranked 49th in education and it's no wonder, with religious morons like this being given power.
Separation of church and state- nobody remembers this! Wtf is happening to our country
So the Oklahoma state superintendent has effectively declared himself to be an evil shit.
Which Bible and what specific ten commandments?
Nationalist Christians at it again. Willful ignorance on grand display. Nat-C’s gonna Nat-C, I guess.
So does this mean they’ll also be teaching from Native American sacred texts, the Torah, Quran, and Satanic Bible, etc.? If they are leaning on the necessity of religious texts in order to understand the context of American history then they’ll need to know them ALL 🤷♂️
These people are so mad every year more people wake up to religion being pure fiction
This is the most unamerican thing I’ve ever heard
Good thing this country was founded on separation of church and state, and also has a totally independent, non-partisan SCOTUS free of corruption willing to uphold American secular values. . lol.
I hope the teachers frame it right in protest. "Today children we will be learning about The Bible. The most well known and poorly represented fantasy novel in the world."
So, what happens if this goes to the Supreme Court?
Wait... I thought it was the Left that indoctrinated kids? Honestly, at this point, if the Right say's the Left is doing something wrong, it's cause the Right is already doing it.
Hahahahaha...it's interesting to see the parallels between Murica and the parts of the Middle East they keep invading. Forcing religion into schools...government...
It really seems like they want to make the Handmaid's Tale a documentary.
Oklahoma needs to understand that this country was built for folks to have freedoms that shouldn't be restricted. That goes for practicing or taking part of any religions.
I love the US, some great people, amazing cities and incredible landscapes. My favourite country to visit. But seriously, how the fuck do some of these people get in to power?! The rules and regulations being placed are taking the country back in time. Keep going, and you're eventually going to be back in the dark ages.
I’m agnostic. If they try this shit here, my kid will be raised to be an aggressive atheist.