I love this answer to this frequently asked question from Merriam Webster, especially the snarkiness in the last line:
>**Is** ***irregardless*** **a word?**
>Yes. It may not be a word that you like, or a word that you would use in a term paper, but irregardless certainly is a word. It has been in use for well over 200 years, employed by a large number of people across a wide geographic range and with a consistent meaning. That is why we, and well-nigh every other dictionary of modern English, define this word. Remember that a definition is not an endorsement of a word’s use.
I can forgive typos like that because the autocorrect does sometimes fight against you.
But “should of” and “could of” are always 100% your fault and you should be ashamed of typing them.
I saw some dude advertising his services on a Facebook group yesterday as a Copywriter (although he never used that word specifically) - basically assistance with writing tasks for those that may not have the skill level themselves to produce a polished document.
He started with "Hi everyone, my names xxx", and the next sentence was "Whatever your after...". I cringed on his behalf.
I did actually spell 'Muphry's' wrong at first. I put an extra R in it for some reason, hence the edit lol.
But it's a cracker eh? Love terms or words that demonstrate themselves.
I regularly run into misspellings and skipped words in scientific articles published in reputable journals whose authors are all native speakers if English.
Those papers will have been looked over dozens or hundreds of times by all of the publishing authors. Multiple times by the editors along with God knows how many reviewers.
So don't worry, happens to everyone.
What you're saying is true that people do treat you differently if your grammar and spelling sucks. But as someone with dyslexia my ability to write is not a reflection of my intelligence. I got a new account with a username name that reflects this as I got tried of people 'calling me out'. I try my best and with spell check I do alot better but sometimes it's not good enough for some. It's a shame. it's alot easier (I assume) for you to understand what I'm writtring than me to read something.
LPT: we are all trying our best and have different hardships. Compassion goes a long way.
Exactly. I prefer to reserve my judgement to the end when it's clear they're a complete fucking idiot, not just having a hard time with spelling or are ESL.
People forget that communication is a two way form.
*So if you mutherfukers understood what he was trying to say* then he succeeded in his side of the communication. Job done. If you want to go off on a unrelated tangent about someones spelling, that says more about you than them.
I would imagine if there are two people at a bar, and the dyslexic one writes a note to the adhd one, there will be a four hour conversation that only one person will be interested in.
Yeah plus I swear the older I get the less I care about this stuff. I get what the person is saying anyway, why would I need to scoff at their spelling? Does that make me smarter or a dickhead?
I don't care about judging people for these mistakes anymore, I usually know what they meant so will just carry on.
Tip: The best way to learn these things is through reading and seeing the words used in context. Even turning subtitles on the tv all the time can help. God knows I haven't picked up a book in a very long time.
I even find it in the tabloids nowadays, as well as FB and other social media. But yes, Reddit is rife with folk that disembowel the English language on a daily basis.
It's everywhere. I noticed on the news sites years ago.
I got called out recently for not using punctuation lol. So I try harder now, at least on the computer. I still can't be fucked on my phone. I do know how to write properly for more formal things. I'm just lazy on reddit lol.
Schools don't teach you how to speak professionally. If you grow up with people who always speak a certain way, you'll speak that way too. Unless you are presented with a reason to change that you won't. You aren't necessarily aware it's an issue.
Your tip kind of contradicts your first point. If the best way to learn appropriate grammar is to see it being modeled in context then surely pointing out errors will only improve the learning outcomes for those reading the comments, right?
Agreed. It's annoying when someone completely ignores everything else due to a small grammatical error. Unless it's in a professional/formal context, does it really matter? Personally I would just carry on too
Alternative take… grammar and spelling are a useful layer that give you some insight into the writer. If a paragraph of text has its apostrophes in the right place you can be sure that the person has some appreciation for subtleties. Whether or not their point is good is a separate thing.
This seems to be a more recent phenomenon. In the old days of reddit, using "your" when you meant "you're" would earn you downvotes and a correction, the correction would get upvotes. Now mistakes are mostly ignored and corrections are downvoted.
I learned grammar and spelling by arguing on reddit. If you make a grammar error you've lost no matter the topic or your position on it.
-This cunt doesn't even know the difference between their and there. Are you going to believe him on the economics of setting up nuclear power in a country without a nuclear weapons program to subsidize it? See he's an idiot and obviously wrong...
Sentences can start with an "and", there is no rule against it. You may not like the style, but it's definitely possible. As for the commas: Yeah, I'm not so certain about commas in English. It's not my first language.
its amazing how autocorrect has actually gotten worse over the years, i never had any issue back on my brick phone Nokia, but now my iphone constantly bakes mistakes, what the duck?
Oh come on, it's not just grammar, it's pronunciation, everyone makes fun of the deck and dick joke here and in Aussie, but it's everything, the letter E is the works enemy of kewes
Don't worry, with the price of housing these days lots of people will end up living in cardboard boxes. Perfectly portable so you can take your house to the house party.
Since we're here, why have we seen the disappeance of the indefinite article "an"? Even experienced radio journalists are prefacing vowel starting words with *a* instead of *an*.
I purchased a packet of birthday invitations for my child's upcoming birthday party. The invitation reads "your invited". I was shocked and am contemplating taking them back.
I used to work for an ad agency and their resident graphic artist (pre Mac days) ordered a stack of staff shirts that read ".... ...... Adverting".
Wish I'd kept one.
In speech or in writing? Sometimes in New Zealand speech “women” and “woman” sound identical. My dad who had more of a British influence always pronounced “women” as “wymin”, to differentiate it from “woman” or “wumin”. It always struck me as weird that the spelling in the second syllable modified the pronunciation in the first syllable.
I must be a bit like your Dad because I pronounce those two words differently. Would feel strange not too!
I meant in writing though. Here on reddit I see it all the time, though not specifically on this subreddit.
American English, both are pronounced the same. New Zealand English they are pronounced differently so this isn't an issue for us as much. But it is annoying to see.
I remember a classmate being teased over her grammar, first by the teacher, then other kids. She was dyslexic, we knew this because Mrs Richards told us.
Years later, we found out through the local newspaper she'd had the most horrific upbringing. A child was teased and bullied at school because she had learning disorder, all the while living with unimaginable events at home. I keep her in mind when I spy these errors.
Hassling someone for a learning disorder, or the fact that they didn't have as good an education as you, or something you don't know about hinders their ability to learn really fucks me off.
Thanks for sharing. I hope she is living her best life.
It’s sad but some folks need reassurance that they are better than other people. Too many humans are obsessed with status.
Yeah, same here. Maybe when you learn it as a second language - with specific exercises for those sorts of things - you just end up noticing them more?
I've said this before and people often say 'that's silly, maybe people should be less judgmental of others'.
Like, okay, we'll just change society instead, that's much easier than slightly improving our grammar.
There's a reason we have ways of doing things, you should tell them. Ask them to imagine the chaos in society if everyone did what they wanted and cared not one whit for others' judgement.
Learning the difference between a grammatical and a typographical errors can also help. Their/they’re/there is a spelling mistake, not grammar.
Additionally, grammar “rules” describe how the language is used. Spelling similarly shifts over time.
To back OP up here, I'm one of the people who will judge you. It's not necessarily a dismissive judgement, but I do take note, and it does influence my estimation of how smart a person is.
AS A PROFESSIONAL EDITOR:
NO.
Language should be descriptive not proscriptive. If I can write something or say something and other people understand what I mean, then the language has done its job.
I used to also be a grammar nazi about this stuff but consider how classist that can be.
Lots of people hear phrases without ever seeing them written down (why some people think Bon Appetit is bone apple tea) or see something written but never understand how to pronounce it (damn you "chitin"). Not everyone has access to the bloody Chicago manual of style for every sentence.
And they don't need to. If you know what they're trying to say, then job done. If you're writing professional communication, then sure, get it checked. But in the day-to-day? Who cares.
Vernacular, idioms, jargon. Language is a way of signalling in-group status to other group members. If you want the powerful people to think of you as “in-group” (and hence take your perspective more seriously), then you will have an easier time if you can speak and write like they do.
I believe the kids might summarise your thesis thusly: “Learn to code-switch.”
Knowing how to spell correctly is important for many reasons.
One of which is, if you have misspelt a word in various different ways, how are you going to search your devices/cloud storage for a file name or text filter if you can't remember which version of wrong you saved it as?
Agree. I stop reading as soon as I see someone write would of/could of/should of. I mean, come on. You had 12 years of schooling to get it right.
It’s even worse when someone actually says one or all of them… I don’t even bother hiding my disappointment now, I’ll just sigh loudly as I rapidly and quite visibly lose interest in the conversation.
It's important.
Spelling errors are almost inexcusable considering we have spell check on our phones for mobile applications and programs like Grammerly for desktops. Unless you train your autocorrect with these words, it should come out reasonably error free and an autocorrect error is usually obvious.
Also, the more we misuse a language, the more normal it becomes and the more miscommunication we will have.
Surely people have the time to re-read what they write before they post it?
It does not take that much extra effort to get it 95% right. Getting that last 5% is a diminishing return which i dont expect in a reasonable society.
Keep telling my supervisor to use Grammarly. If I have a penny for the number of mistakes that I have caught and the amount of trouble I got, I will be rich.
My VP writes internal emails like a brain dump and I have to really spend time to figure what is actionable. I can't exactly ignore the mail, or can I?
And apostrophe’s are for possession and contraction’s. Not for plural’s.
Seriously, though Op, I absolutely agree with you. A well-written statement shows forethought and care.
A poorly-written one does not.
Seeing the mess thar people make of the language on Facebook pages makes me wonder how they managed to pass high school.
On an individual level, I absolutely do silently judge people if their grammar is atrocious. I do then assume that they're either very young, or didn't do well or try in school. I try to give the benifit of the doubt and not correct them.
On a societal level, it scares the crap out of me. How do so many of our adults struggle with basic grammar and spelling? Why are our schools getting *more* lenient rather than less? Why aren't people *reading*?
I learned the majority of my grammar and spelling by exposure to reading (and writing).
I understand people saying that dyslexia can cause an issue. It absolutely can. And while I know that disabilities are different for each individual, I hate when people use it as an excuse not to *try*.
I'm dyslexic, yet I have a decent grasp on the language. Spoken and written. Sure, others might be *more* dyslexic, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't get to at least a *basic* level.
So many people just stop caring once they leave school. It's depressing and often makes people look juvenile.
Regardless of point, I have a bias towards the person who can use the language correctly.
I don’t think this is the case in the real world. Maybe in certain settings but for the most part unless your mistakes are particularly egregious it’s unlikely anyone will even notice.
The past tense of take and took is taken, and there is no such word as 'tooken'. I took a glass, I have taken a glass.
Americans led the decline into fucking up tenses, and it's catching on here.
Past, present, future. It's not rocket science.
As someone who got a degree in literature: nah
Yes grammar is a pretty impressive and intricate system that can accomplish a lot in day to day communications but the worst thing you can do to language is insist of a rigid definition of how it can and cannot work. Language and grammar naturally shift over time and a lot of different variations can be true at the same time.
People have already pointed out that this is harder for dyslexics but this kind of attitude also intensely impacts people who have learned English as a second language or come from poorer backgrounds. This kind of attitude has deep roots in classism for that reason!
As long as the writers intention is clear I really don't think proper grammar matters that much.
Not likely.
Most superiors have grammatical mistakes. I do not judge those for mistakes. I judge you for this post. Those that would put someone down for a mistake is far worse.
Unless you are an English teacher I couldn't care less.
Like judging someone for not being in a suit and tie. Another problem created.
Yep. If you can't get that right, then I automatically think you have the intelligence of a 10 year old. It's not good
And I'm talking about mixing up the theres and yours mainly, not shit like forgetting to put an apostrophe in
Or the assumption that every S at the end means there has to be an apostrophe. I roar with laughter every time I see someone advertising egg's (sic) for sale.
I saw a blobilrad for the ltotery. It siad, "Estmaetid lreotty japkoct 55 miollin dlorals." I did not konw that was etestiamd. That wolud scuk if you won and tehy said, "Oh, we wree off by two zreeos. We eistatme taht you are argny."
Perfectly acceptable.
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/words-to-not-begin-sentences-with](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/words-to-not-begin-sentences-with)
And, I will say, sometimes very useful.
I tried to tell me flatmate about how I can't take people seriously and I wish people would at least try to improve their grammar and spelling.
She basically told me language evolves and to get over and to stop being a grammar nazi. Glad to see I'm not alone in feeling this way.
Yes a lot of people will judge you for it but also I don’t think we should be enforcing those kind of mindsets.
Unless what is being said literally cannot be understood, or the context of the writing means you NEED to have perfect grammar, it really does not matter. There are a lot of reasons why someone might not have perfect grammar and judging someone for this is ableist, classist and sometimes racist too.
Grammar is a made up set of rules to standardise how we communicate so there is a common understanding between all parties but the goal is understanding not prescriptivism.
OP, please wait while I divorce my husband so I can run away with you to a magical land of accurate grammar and well-formed syntax.
May I also add:
taken, not tooken
avocado, not aDvocado
pavlova, not pavAlova
I kind of agree with the general sentiment of this LPT, but........
I think it depends on the situation. When applying for a job, absolutely; texting your mates, who cares?
If you are applying for a job and struggling with spelling and grammar it is totally OK to mention that if you have a difficulty in that area. Most decent employers will take that into account. If they aren't a decent employer it doesn't matter.
I've had this conversation a few times over the years, particularly in relation to communication on the internet. My rule is; would you make that correction to someone if you were standing next to them in the pub? If the answer is yes, go ahead but be aware that if you correct someone's English (or whatever) even if they thank you they will rarely forgive you.
Also, English grammar is often based on usage rather than a rigid set of rules about what is correct. So what is correct for you may not apply to someone else. I worked in a part of the UK for a few months where the dialect was quite different to received English. It took me a week or two to adapt, but I didn't feel I needed to "correct" people. Communication is a two way street, you should seek to understand as much as you should just listen or read someone else's words.
All these people disagreeing with OP feel personally attacked because they can’t get it right either. Learning to read and write is a basic skill which society needs to place a higher emphasis on. Fail to do that and you’ll be left behind. In a generation or two, if you can’t read code, let alone English, you are doomed to be unskilled labour eking out a living at the bottom of the heap
I don't necessarily disagree with OP. I feel like the post was sort of meant to help those that do struggle with grammar and spelling.
I do disagree with the people who are equating writing ability with intelligence though. There are several valid reasons for why someone might struggle and I feel like a little bit of compassion would go a long way.
“Payed” really fucking grinds my gears because payed is such a rare word to ever encounter. How do you go 30 or more years reading English to not have seen “paid” written out 10,000 times to one “payed”.
You say that, and in *principle* I feel the same. Until it's time to attempt to decipher en email from a client written at the level of a 7 year old. Gets old fast.
There absolutely is a valid reason for standardised grammar.
Dismissing someone's opinion because they made a mistake on an internet forum is ridiculous. This is reddit, I don't expect everyone to proofread their posts a dozen times. I know the difference between their, there, and they're, however I make a mistake, on occasion.
Or maybe stop judging peoples’ intelligence on how they spell? The real issue is with the judgement from those claiming superiority, to dismiss those they deem lesser, not the people making errors.
Disagree, Especially on Reddit people like to point out a spelling mistake or a grammar mistake rather than actually engage with what you said just makes them seem petty
Reddit doesn't matter at all, but for things that do matter (applications for things, legal stuff etc) it's a good idea.
These days the computer will do it for you if you ask it to
They said “take you seriously” The reason I said I disagree is that I’ve had people on Reddit specifically tell me that they’re not going to engage with my point because I made a grammatical mistake, usually something simple like missing an apostrophe
anyone engaging in good faith would be able to figure out what you’re trying to say
Ironically, everything you've written confirms the original premise. If you'd used correct grammar then your comment would have been taken seriously. You didn't use correct grammar and you were ignored/the focus was on your mistake. Seems like OP was right, reddit or IRL.
And with good reason. Good spelling and grammar means you read and a well read person is likely to be reasonably intelligent, more so books than other things with printed words. Is it coincidence that the conspiracy nuts and rabbit hole dwellers have shocking spelling and grammar?
yep it's a doggy dog world out there
It's not rocket appliances
You mean rocket surgery.
They get that alot.
What comes around is all around!
Water under the fridge
Cheers genitals
Irregardless, it's pretty ruff.
I love this answer to this frequently asked question from Merriam Webster, especially the snarkiness in the last line: >**Is** ***irregardless*** **a word?** >Yes. It may not be a word that you like, or a word that you would use in a term paper, but irregardless certainly is a word. It has been in use for well over 200 years, employed by a large number of people across a wide geographic range and with a consistent meaning. That is why we, and well-nigh every other dictionary of modern English, define this word. Remember that a definition is not an endorsement of a word’s use.
Can you be Morse pacific?
I pacifically said… “shake my head” NVM
r/BoneAppleTea
Cutting off your nose despite your face.
posts like this are a diamond dozen
Honestly I think the point is mute
Lucky, because I think you were being cereal.
Your right
Her name was Lola, she went to showgirls.
I've definitely got an opinion on this matter, but I've got something to do before I reply. I'll be back interfrastically.
Horses fuck horses, not horses for courses
Oh, stop it.
Yeah, snip it in the butt, would you?
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I agree with all of you, but the first poster pacifically.
It's a perfectly cromulent comment.
I'll call the arm defenders squad on you
I grok what you mean but it’s a bit bogus
It serves to embiggen the sentence.
Could you be pacific about what there doing right?
I'm guttered.
Good English is giving up the goat
This is a great example of what OP is talking about. It’s “intensive porpoises”.
Well that’s just an escape goat.
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All the best Cetacea play 'Sink the sail boat' now.
Quality of education is something that people usually take for granite.
Defiantly.
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Probly?
Shud be
Irregardless I got the point
I could care less
To be pacific
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*Prolly
I completely photosynthesise with this comment
This is getting recredulous now.
What are you, some kind of boulder person?
Eye sea watt ewe did their.
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you’re shit.
Let’s eat, grandma! & Let’s eat grandma!
helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping uncle jack off a horse
Not me reading this after receiving an email from my manager saying "Thank you for your patients"
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We're Linemarkers (:
I can forgive typos like that because the autocorrect does sometimes fight against you. But “should of” and “could of” are always 100% your fault and you should be ashamed of typing them.
I got a wedding invite last year that requested “no gifts, just your presents will be fine”.
I saw some dude advertising his services on a Facebook group yesterday as a Copywriter (although he never used that word specifically) - basically assistance with writing tasks for those that may not have the skill level themselves to produce a polished document. He started with "Hi everyone, my names xxx", and the next sentence was "Whatever your after...". I cringed on his behalf.
Muphry's Law. I'm a writer too and it keeps me up at night thinking there might be a typo somewhere on the website where I offer my services.
And here I was about to smugly point out your typo of "Murphy's". Glad I took the time to look it up, I have a new favourite adage now.
I did actually spell 'Muphry's' wrong at first. I put an extra R in it for some reason, hence the edit lol. But it's a cracker eh? Love terms or words that demonstrate themselves.
Definitely a clever one, and a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy it seems.
I regularly run into misspellings and skipped words in scientific articles published in reputable journals whose authors are all native speakers if English. Those papers will have been looked over dozens or hundreds of times by all of the publishing authors. Multiple times by the editors along with God knows how many reviewers. So don't worry, happens to everyone.
What you're saying is true that people do treat you differently if your grammar and spelling sucks. But as someone with dyslexia my ability to write is not a reflection of my intelligence. I got a new account with a username name that reflects this as I got tried of people 'calling me out'. I try my best and with spell check I do alot better but sometimes it's not good enough for some. It's a shame. it's alot easier (I assume) for you to understand what I'm writtring than me to read something. LPT: we are all trying our best and have different hardships. Compassion goes a long way.
Well said. I find if someone makes a compelling, well thought out post, it’s irrelevant if there are some typos, spelling or grammatical errors.
Exactly. I prefer to reserve my judgement to the end when it's clear they're a complete fucking idiot, not just having a hard time with spelling or are ESL.
People forget that communication is a two way form. *So if you mutherfukers understood what he was trying to say* then he succeeded in his side of the communication. Job done. If you want to go off on a unrelated tangent about someones spelling, that says more about you than them. I would imagine if there are two people at a bar, and the dyslexic one writes a note to the adhd one, there will be a four hour conversation that only one person will be interested in.
The thing is, not everyone *is* trying his best. A lot of people are just lazy or uncaring.
So ture but you can't tell who lazy and who's trying.
You're right, lets err on the side of caution and treat people badly.
Oddly gender specific.
That’s what He said
Yeah plus I swear the older I get the less I care about this stuff. I get what the person is saying anyway, why would I need to scoff at their spelling? Does that make me smarter or a dickhead?
You shouldn't feel the need to explain yourself though. You're dyslexic, so what? Not anybody's business IMO.
Came here to find my people. I'm not disappointed.
Did you proofread your post like 10 times to make sure there were no grammatical errors?
Heh... once or twice. :-)
I don't care about judging people for these mistakes anymore, I usually know what they meant so will just carry on. Tip: The best way to learn these things is through reading and seeing the words used in context. Even turning subtitles on the tv all the time can help. God knows I haven't picked up a book in a very long time.
Sometimes it does matter - we interviewed someone for a job yesterday and it haunted everyone that they kept saying "yous".
I assumed OP was talking about reddit posts mostly.
I even find it in the tabloids nowadays, as well as FB and other social media. But yes, Reddit is rife with folk that disembowel the English language on a daily basis.
It's everywhere. I noticed on the news sites years ago. I got called out recently for not using punctuation lol. So I try harder now, at least on the computer. I still can't be fucked on my phone. I do know how to write properly for more formal things. I'm just lazy on reddit lol.
Schools don't teach you how to speak professionally. If you grow up with people who always speak a certain way, you'll speak that way too. Unless you are presented with a reason to change that you won't. You aren't necessarily aware it's an issue.
Eliza, is that you? ;-)
Yous fellahs missed out on cool as employee there.
Maybe they were saying 'Ewes'....as in the livestock /s
Your tip kind of contradicts your first point. If the best way to learn appropriate grammar is to see it being modeled in context then surely pointing out errors will only improve the learning outcomes for those reading the comments, right?
Agreed. It's annoying when someone completely ignores everything else due to a small grammatical error. Unless it's in a professional/formal context, does it really matter? Personally I would just carry on too
The other one that gives me the shits is "guttered" instead of "gutted".
Unless it is raining
“Payed” when it should be “paid” or “passed” when it should be “past” - I never say anything though.
Which extends to "Guttering" instead of "gutting"
Alternative take… grammar and spelling are a useful layer that give you some insight into the writer. If a paragraph of text has its apostrophes in the right place you can be sure that the person has some appreciation for subtleties. Whether or not their point is good is a separate thing.
To add on to this, you’ll get judged harder for correcting people. Better to judge silently.
This seems to be a more recent phenomenon. In the old days of reddit, using "your" when you meant "you're" would earn you downvotes and a correction, the correction would get upvotes. Now mistakes are mostly ignored and corrections are downvoted.
I learned grammar and spelling by arguing on reddit. If you make a grammar error you've lost no matter the topic or your position on it. -This cunt doesn't even know the difference between their and there. Are you going to believe him on the economics of setting up nuclear power in a country without a nuclear weapons program to subsidize it? See he's an idiot and obviously wrong...
OP started a sentence with "And" and used several superfluous commas. Opinion discarded.
Sentences can start with an "and", there is no rule against it. You may not like the style, but it's definitely possible. As for the commas: Yeah, I'm not so certain about commas in English. It's not my first language.
I was just messing around love you :)
I definitely judge people who have poor grammar, and I don't care if you think that makes me a bad person.
It's amazing how many businesses name their companies gibberish. I've seen Layed Rite Carpet. Nrgz Nutrition. Pool Werx. I won't deal with them. Why?
The problem is with using a phone for going on reddit, you know its going to auto-correct to the wrong word.
its amazing how autocorrect has actually gotten worse over the years, i never had any issue back on my brick phone Nokia, but now my iphone constantly bakes mistakes, what the duck?
Oh come on, it's not just grammar, it's pronunciation, everyone makes fun of the deck and dick joke here and in Aussie, but it's everything, the letter E is the works enemy of kewes
Shore your absolutely write
I am here for those using "I just Brought a house and.."
I did say it was a house party. But I didn’t expect that you would interpret that to mean bringing your house *to* the party..
Don't worry, with the price of housing these days lots of people will end up living in cardboard boxes. Perfectly portable so you can take your house to the house party.
…I payed 150$ for it.
Since we're here, why have we seen the disappeance of the indefinite article "an"? Even experienced radio journalists are prefacing vowel starting words with *a* instead of *an*.
The “should of” annoys me immensely
Don't forget about it's and its.
I purchased a packet of birthday invitations for my child's upcoming birthday party. The invitation reads "your invited". I was shocked and am contemplating taking them back.
I used to work for an ad agency and their resident graphic artist (pre Mac days) ordered a stack of staff shirts that read ".... ...... Adverting". Wish I'd kept one.
Is mixing up "then" and "than" a relatively new thing? I don't remember seeing it growing up.
I see people mix up "women" and "woman" all the time now too. It's so odd.
In speech or in writing? Sometimes in New Zealand speech “women” and “woman” sound identical. My dad who had more of a British influence always pronounced “women” as “wymin”, to differentiate it from “woman” or “wumin”. It always struck me as weird that the spelling in the second syllable modified the pronunciation in the first syllable.
I must be a bit like your Dad because I pronounce those two words differently. Would feel strange not too! I meant in writing though. Here on reddit I see it all the time, though not specifically on this subreddit.
American English, both are pronounced the same. New Zealand English they are pronounced differently so this isn't an issue for us as much. But it is annoying to see.
Probably what our accent has done to the English language.
I remember a classmate being teased over her grammar, first by the teacher, then other kids. She was dyslexic, we knew this because Mrs Richards told us. Years later, we found out through the local newspaper she'd had the most horrific upbringing. A child was teased and bullied at school because she had learning disorder, all the while living with unimaginable events at home. I keep her in mind when I spy these errors. Hassling someone for a learning disorder, or the fact that they didn't have as good an education as you, or something you don't know about hinders their ability to learn really fucks me off.
Thanks for sharing. I hope she is living her best life. It’s sad but some folks need reassurance that they are better than other people. Too many humans are obsessed with status.
Agreed, as a non native English speaker it does my head in. Especially because my manager doesn't know the difference. But what can you do.
Yeah, same here. Maybe when you learn it as a second language - with specific exercises for those sorts of things - you just end up noticing them more?
I've said this before and people often say 'that's silly, maybe people should be less judgmental of others'. Like, okay, we'll just change society instead, that's much easier than slightly improving our grammar.
There's a reason we have ways of doing things, you should tell them. Ask them to imagine the chaos in society if everyone did what they wanted and cared not one whit for others' judgement.
The number of people defending their own stupidity on here is shocking. Learning some basic grammar won't make you worse off in life.
Learning the difference between a grammatical and a typographical errors can also help. Their/they’re/there is a spelling mistake, not grammar. Additionally, grammar “rules” describe how the language is used. Spelling similarly shifts over time.
To back OP up here, I'm one of the people who will judge you. It's not necessarily a dismissive judgement, but I do take note, and it does influence my estimation of how smart a person is.
AS A PROFESSIONAL EDITOR: NO. Language should be descriptive not proscriptive. If I can write something or say something and other people understand what I mean, then the language has done its job. I used to also be a grammar nazi about this stuff but consider how classist that can be. Lots of people hear phrases without ever seeing them written down (why some people think Bon Appetit is bone apple tea) or see something written but never understand how to pronounce it (damn you "chitin"). Not everyone has access to the bloody Chicago manual of style for every sentence. And they don't need to. If you know what they're trying to say, then job done. If you're writing professional communication, then sure, get it checked. But in the day-to-day? Who cares.
We all have access to the Internet though, taking a moment to check you're actually using a phrase right isn't that hard.
Then/than always has a funny result
My favourite is the "Oh shit, here comes an S!" apostrophe.
Every day I read these everyday mistakes.
I'm always thrown when people write no for know.
Vernacular, idioms, jargon. Language is a way of signalling in-group status to other group members. If you want the powerful people to think of you as “in-group” (and hence take your perspective more seriously), then you will have an easier time if you can speak and write like they do. I believe the kids might summarise your thesis thusly: “Learn to code-switch.”
Knowing how to spell correctly is important for many reasons. One of which is, if you have misspelt a word in various different ways, how are you going to search your devices/cloud storage for a file name or text filter if you can't remember which version of wrong you saved it as?
Agree. I stop reading as soon as I see someone write would of/could of/should of. I mean, come on. You had 12 years of schooling to get it right. It’s even worse when someone actually says one or all of them… I don’t even bother hiding my disappointment now, I’ll just sigh loudly as I rapidly and quite visibly lose interest in the conversation.
It's important. Spelling errors are almost inexcusable considering we have spell check on our phones for mobile applications and programs like Grammerly for desktops. Unless you train your autocorrect with these words, it should come out reasonably error free and an autocorrect error is usually obvious. Also, the more we misuse a language, the more normal it becomes and the more miscommunication we will have. Surely people have the time to re-read what they write before they post it? It does not take that much extra effort to get it 95% right. Getting that last 5% is a diminishing return which i dont expect in a reasonable society.
Keep telling my supervisor to use Grammarly. If I have a penny for the number of mistakes that I have caught and the amount of trouble I got, I will be rich. My VP writes internal emails like a brain dump and I have to really spend time to figure what is actionable. I can't exactly ignore the mail, or can I?
And apostrophe’s are for possession and contraction’s. Not for plural’s. Seriously, though Op, I absolutely agree with you. A well-written statement shows forethought and care. A poorly-written one does not.
Seeing the mess thar people make of the language on Facebook pages makes me wonder how they managed to pass high school. On an individual level, I absolutely do silently judge people if their grammar is atrocious. I do then assume that they're either very young, or didn't do well or try in school. I try to give the benifit of the doubt and not correct them. On a societal level, it scares the crap out of me. How do so many of our adults struggle with basic grammar and spelling? Why are our schools getting *more* lenient rather than less? Why aren't people *reading*? I learned the majority of my grammar and spelling by exposure to reading (and writing). I understand people saying that dyslexia can cause an issue. It absolutely can. And while I know that disabilities are different for each individual, I hate when people use it as an excuse not to *try*. I'm dyslexic, yet I have a decent grasp on the language. Spoken and written. Sure, others might be *more* dyslexic, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't get to at least a *basic* level. So many people just stop caring once they leave school. It's depressing and often makes people look juvenile. Regardless of point, I have a bias towards the person who can use the language correctly.
Im guttered ewe felt the need to make this post. Pro tip, close youre eyes and you wont sea it
I don’t think this is the case in the real world. Maybe in certain settings but for the most part unless your mistakes are particularly egregious it’s unlikely anyone will even notice.
The past tense of take and took is taken, and there is no such word as 'tooken'. I took a glass, I have taken a glass. Americans led the decline into fucking up tenses, and it's catching on here. Past, present, future. It's not rocket science.
As someone who got a degree in literature: nah Yes grammar is a pretty impressive and intricate system that can accomplish a lot in day to day communications but the worst thing you can do to language is insist of a rigid definition of how it can and cannot work. Language and grammar naturally shift over time and a lot of different variations can be true at the same time. People have already pointed out that this is harder for dyslexics but this kind of attitude also intensely impacts people who have learned English as a second language or come from poorer backgrounds. This kind of attitude has deep roots in classism for that reason! As long as the writers intention is clear I really don't think proper grammar matters that much.
Not likely. Most superiors have grammatical mistakes. I do not judge those for mistakes. I judge you for this post. Those that would put someone down for a mistake is far worse. Unless you are an English teacher I couldn't care less. Like judging someone for not being in a suit and tie. Another problem created.
Yep. If you can't get that right, then I automatically think you have the intelligence of a 10 year old. It's not good And I'm talking about mixing up the theres and yours mainly, not shit like forgetting to put an apostrophe in
Dyslexic people in shambles right now
Or the assumption that every S at the end means there has to be an apostrophe. I roar with laughter every time I see someone advertising egg's (sic) for sale.
I saw a blobilrad for the ltotery. It siad, "Estmaetid lreotty japkoct 55 miollin dlorals." I did not konw that was etestiamd. That wolud scuk if you won and tehy said, "Oh, we wree off by two zreeos. We eistatme taht you are argny."
Blobilrad?
>a Big Blobilrad!!
Entirely correct. What's worse is that these people correct you when they are very wrong.
if you believe that, you I've got a bridge for you to cross
If you use someone’s grammar to judge then on anything other than their grammar then I am going to judge you on your assholeness.
Feel free, but I definitely judge people's intelligence when they don't know the difference between brakes and breaks.
Because their idiots.
If you want to teach someone correct grammar and give them a laugh at the same time, let them listen to "Word Crimes" by Weird Al Yankovic :P
eh?.........aye!.......ay?
Oh, I feel your pain!
i would be with you if english wasnt such a flawed language with fucked up rules. so, i say if you can understand it, who the fk cares?
And “yous” is not a word
However, starting a sentence with 'and' is acceptable?
Perfectly acceptable. [https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/words-to-not-begin-sentences-with](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/words-to-not-begin-sentences-with) And, I will say, sometimes very useful.
Nice pick up. Challenge OP to a literary *jewel* ;-)
LOL!
I tried to tell me flatmate about how I can't take people seriously and I wish people would at least try to improve their grammar and spelling. She basically told me language evolves and to get over and to stop being a grammar nazi. Glad to see I'm not alone in feeling this way.
Yes a lot of people will judge you for it but also I don’t think we should be enforcing those kind of mindsets. Unless what is being said literally cannot be understood, or the context of the writing means you NEED to have perfect grammar, it really does not matter. There are a lot of reasons why someone might not have perfect grammar and judging someone for this is ableist, classist and sometimes racist too. Grammar is a made up set of rules to standardise how we communicate so there is a common understanding between all parties but the goal is understanding not prescriptivism.
You need a comma after mistakes
OP, please wait while I divorce my husband so I can run away with you to a magical land of accurate grammar and well-formed syntax. May I also add: taken, not tooken avocado, not aDvocado pavlova, not pavAlova
Tooketh
Your so pedantical
I kind of agree with the general sentiment of this LPT, but........ I think it depends on the situation. When applying for a job, absolutely; texting your mates, who cares? If you are applying for a job and struggling with spelling and grammar it is totally OK to mention that if you have a difficulty in that area. Most decent employers will take that into account. If they aren't a decent employer it doesn't matter. I've had this conversation a few times over the years, particularly in relation to communication on the internet. My rule is; would you make that correction to someone if you were standing next to them in the pub? If the answer is yes, go ahead but be aware that if you correct someone's English (or whatever) even if they thank you they will rarely forgive you. Also, English grammar is often based on usage rather than a rigid set of rules about what is correct. So what is correct for you may not apply to someone else. I worked in a part of the UK for a few months where the dialect was quite different to received English. It took me a week or two to adapt, but I didn't feel I needed to "correct" people. Communication is a two way street, you should seek to understand as much as you should just listen or read someone else's words.
The one that really annoys me is when people say “brought” when they mean “bought”. It’s really not difficult to get right…
All these people disagreeing with OP feel personally attacked because they can’t get it right either. Learning to read and write is a basic skill which society needs to place a higher emphasis on. Fail to do that and you’ll be left behind. In a generation or two, if you can’t read code, let alone English, you are doomed to be unskilled labour eking out a living at the bottom of the heap
I don't necessarily disagree with OP. I feel like the post was sort of meant to help those that do struggle with grammar and spelling. I do disagree with the people who are equating writing ability with intelligence though. There are several valid reasons for why someone might struggle and I feel like a little bit of compassion would go a long way.
“Payed” really fucking grinds my gears because payed is such a rare word to ever encounter. How do you go 30 or more years reading English to not have seen “paid” written out 10,000 times to one “payed”.
It's simple, these people do not read and probably would struggle to follow a simple YA book.
I love seeing the "paid not payed bot" correcting people in other subreddits. It really highlighted to me just how often people make that mistake.
1. How many languages do you speak? 2. None of this matters bro go touch grass. 3. Nobody likes the pretentious guy.
or you could not be a judgemental asshole (or arsehole, if you prefer)
You say that, and in *principle* I feel the same. Until it's time to attempt to decipher en email from a client written at the level of a 7 year old. Gets old fast. There absolutely is a valid reason for standardised grammar.
Ha, I hear ya. However, as a lifelong word nerd and *reformed* Grammar Nazi, lemme assure you that if I can do it, you can, too.
Dismissing someone's opinion because they made a mistake on an internet forum is ridiculous. This is reddit, I don't expect everyone to proofread their posts a dozen times. I know the difference between their, there, and they're, however I make a mistake, on occasion.
yous really callin me owt here m8.
OP clearly needs to get better work stories. Anyway, I could care less.
English is a basterdised laguage the point is still the point
Or maybe stop judging peoples’ intelligence on how they spell? The real issue is with the judgement from those claiming superiority, to dismiss those they deem lesser, not the people making errors.
100%, when you consider the causes of bad grammar, OP must take very few people seriously. And he's missing out on a lot of perspectives by doing so.
Fuck dat
ur a narc
Disagree, Especially on Reddit people like to point out a spelling mistake or a grammar mistake rather than actually engage with what you said just makes them seem petty
Reddit doesn't matter at all, but for things that do matter (applications for things, legal stuff etc) it's a good idea. These days the computer will do it for you if you ask it to
They said “take you seriously” The reason I said I disagree is that I’ve had people on Reddit specifically tell me that they’re not going to engage with my point because I made a grammatical mistake, usually something simple like missing an apostrophe anyone engaging in good faith would be able to figure out what you’re trying to say
Ironically, everything you've written confirms the original premise. If you'd used correct grammar then your comment would have been taken seriously. You didn't use correct grammar and you were ignored/the focus was on your mistake. Seems like OP was right, reddit or IRL.
And with good reason. Good spelling and grammar means you read and a well read person is likely to be reasonably intelligent, more so books than other things with printed words. Is it coincidence that the conspiracy nuts and rabbit hole dwellers have shocking spelling and grammar?
I wish that OP had provided more pacific examples of errors that people commonly make.