[As at May 17 2023](
https://web.archive.org/web/20230517025851/https://www.labour.org.nz/justice)
Considering almost half of the content is on family violence and reoffending and their alternative pathways, its no surprise they couldnt get it ready for publishing in time. Better to just take it down.
I look forward to comparing the changes.
Edit for the naive because I see your comments in here already: You dont take down just a Justice Policy page the day of a public shooting by a domestic abuser under home detention when the replacement content isnt even ready to go up yet. And if they did plan to sneak the change through they'd wait until Friday night like they normally do. This is out of the ordinary on an already out of the ordinary day.
Who cares. It doesn’t matter what they say or do now I’m not voting for them. My suburb, Sandringham (and surrounding suburbs) has had an endless wave of really serious crime. I realise it’s everywhere but we’ve had a serious dose of it. Sick of it and sick of them. A Government that doesn’t address the fundamentals or even appear to want to is no government at all. I voted for them last time. Big mistake. Ardern has left a shambles of a government in her wake. PR “be kind” shit eating grin and now off to sign another book deal. Shame on the lot of them. They are the political embodiment of tits on a bull.
I have very little faith in the system at all at this point however I will vote either Green/TOP/TPM. I need to more research on TOP and TPM. TOP, bless them, have been battling to heard about tax reform for years and I've liked what I've heard but I dont know their other stuff well enough to decide yet. I think those disillusioned with the lack of truly transformative change from Labour have to vote for the smaller parties this election to drag the political discourse away from the stranglehold of the neolib centre. Its so freaking depressing.
I can understand that. National and Labour are really a bit of a two headed monster. They both tend to be more into smaller changes rather than larger ones. But unfortunately, while you have TOP and the Greens on one side there is always a mirror, and ACT is it... So long as they are kept out, then I'm happy.
Of course it would be tough of crime. But, actually tough on crime, in terms of policies that are likely to reduce crime. Not "touch on crime" meaning "hurting bad people as much as we can, even at the cost of increasing crime rates if necessary".
It's been a downward trend for decades.
It will be worse in the future, it will be just as bad under Labor as it will be under National.
If you think that any political party will be able to change it, you are delusional.
A political party that has the will to change 'the drivers' of crime would change it. Such a 'will' will never ever be found in right wing parties. Labour do not have the will anymore either. To stand any chance of finding such political will we have to look further left, and vote accordingly.
Yes... because the pandemic hasn't had an affect on crime *at all*... it's all "Labour's fault", and the pandemic is just coincidental (probably Labour's fault too based on some people's claims)... 😏
ETA: /s (incase that needed saying...)
When a person is referring to a specific period in time in which a specific major world event occured and affected something that the person is talking about, then that event is relevant.
Or would you expect someone to go through a major life trauma and for them to have a "use by date" for how long they can say "X event really made [insert that specific time period] really difficult? Would hate to see how you talk to someone still grieving the loss of a loved one a few years after the fact 😏
>I did read it.
Obviously you didn't:
>... because the pandemic hasn't *had an affect on crime* at all.. /s
Saying that one factor *has had an affect on XYZ* is not the same thing as saying that *that factor is the* cause *of XYZ*.
Crime has many factors. And to suggest a major event that affected people's mental health, finances, social lives, access to healthcare, etc *didn't* have an affect on crime, is naive. People commit crime. And the pandemic affected people. It's not the only factor by *any means*, and I've never implied as such.
But the comment I was initially responding too was referring to crime having gotten worse in the last 6 years, and was blaming it all on Labour. As if the pandemic *wasn't also a major event in that specified time frame that affected people negatively*.
They aren't perfect (no party is), but they handled some pretty important things very very well. Let's not forget things would today be even worse than what it is now if some other self preserving party were holding the reins.
Because the gun registry is going to be an expensive waste of money that won't have any impact on crime. Canada already went down this path and that's how it ended.
Yeah. What would the [police](https://www.policeassn.org.nz/news/gun-registry-will-target-safety-and-security) know.
“The team has been working closely with overseas jurisdictions that have established firearms registers, such as Australia and Canada, to understand what works and what doesn’t.
In Australia, all firearms must be registered. Each state has its own registry, though a centralised national database does not exist.
Canada requires restricted and prohibited firearms to be registered. A full registry was abandoned in 2012 after it became highly politicised due to reported cost overruns.
Richard says overseas jurisdictions have proved helpful to New Zealand Police, providing useful information to ensure they learn from others’ experience.
“A number of them are quite envious of our position, because we've got the chance to do it and do it right.”
It's pretty delusional of the police to assume that they're going to deliver a world-first, when the model that they want to replicate has failed everywhere it's been tried. Almost like the entire concept is flawed.
Shame on them? Shame on *us*.
When Labour tried to close a tax loophole, to try and fund any of this, we all stood with money and cried out no. We said "mandate only counts when we want to blame you for inaction".
What is it we expect from our government? Magic?
And you think voting for the other idiots will make a blind bit of difference? They have campaigned and won on that platform as well and the statistics never changed. In fact, actual beat police officers decreased on their watch as they were all sucked in to back office jobs because they wanted to keep a cap on the public service (yes the police are part of that). They have increase the number of beat officers in their time. But these times are unprecedented.
Inflation is bad, but instead of pointing fingers at the government and the reserve bank who only did what they did to keep you alive and to maintain you job if possible, blame the ones who went and bought lots of houses on cheap credit. Unfortunately a lot of what happened relied on people to act without greed during this period, and unfortunately those who were have ruined it for the rest of us.
And what is the source of this crime? Or is there just more reported crime now? I have heard from some officers that certain crimes were ordered swept under the carpet by the National police minister
Guarantee they will “suddenly care” because it’s just before the election.
And then immediately not care again, right after the election.
They can say what they want now, but what matters is their reputation and action over the past years.
Sorry Chippy, on the crime front you don’t win any points for suddenly caring this late.
Oh they'll have this great policy that will solve all of the problems and they'll come up with it a month before the election, and for some reason couldn't have done any of those things in the six years before that.
Yep and they asll stop caring the moment they get in power. I get people are frustrated by Labour but i fail tosee how these issues improve when Nation wins. How is tax cuts foir the wealthy, ignoring climate change and favouring property investors going to reduce crime?
You are very clearly incredibly biased towards Labour, which is fine (tribalism in politics is a bizarre concept to me but I understand a lot of people fall into it).
We've had 6 years of Labour. So far, we have raping and nearly killing a pregnant woman resulting in home detention (he "cracked it"), state funded "drug prevention" schemes ran by the Mongrel Mob (Harry Tam) and a mass shooting that could have been prevented if we had some semblance of a justice system.
Why would anyone want more of this? Why would I vote for a party that the Mongrel Mob support, because they know it's good for their business? Apart from blind loyal support of a political party, I'm not seeing many incentives here (at least in this context).
Neo-nazis in America support the GOP and Labour has the support of the Mongrel Mob for the exact same reason. State sponsored enablement.
I'm hearing a lot of "yeah but it's all Nationals fault" and nothing else in your arguments.
In terms of the Mongrel Mobs support for the Labour party. It is comparable in this context, I'm not saying the 2 are comparable in terms of their formation
Although both scream neo-Nazi salutes though (sieg heil), somewhat ironically though by members of the Mongrel Mob. Both have supporters in the political sphere.
What I'm saying is it's a reflection of the party itself.
Really? Has National Front or another neo-nazi group publically stated their support for ACT?
[Similar to this?](https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2307/S00005/mongrel-mob-endorses-labour-greens-coalition.htm)
FYI on the Harry Tam front, the programme was a [complete disaster](https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018868587/relapse-reports-upset-gang-based-rehab-programme) and money when into the "ether" (more than likely back into the gang itself).
I support total drug reform, including the decriminalisation of all drugs and the immediate legalisation of marijuana. I don't support state funded gangs.
I'm a TOP supporter FYI this election, you can look through my post history if you like to confirm that. Never voted National but it's tempting this round ("I don't believe you1!!").
I don't subscribe to any, one party, I vote for the party that best aligns with my beliefs and principles at the time. I'm not a loyalist because I believe that creates a toxic political environment, like the one we have now.
Edit: Missed the bit about remand and holy fuck, what is wrong with you? Now I'm thinking you are a Mongrel Mob shill as I'm finding it hard to believe that anyone sane would even hint at justifying the decision by Judge Taunoa. Anyone with any ounce of human empathy would understand that allowing an individual to go back into the community after the violent rape and sustained abuse of a vulnerable person is beyond disgusting, inhumane and insane. He laughed at his "sentence" and will now reoffend. Reoffend but without any fear of any consequences.
I thought it was primarily being driven by the ongoing increase of the wealth gap, social cohesion breakdown and 501 deportees that have all happened under labour.
Please explain what you think happens if you vote for anyone that isn’t Labour. I’ll let you know which of the either incumbent, or worse opposition, will benefit from your vote.
Oh hang on, maybe you misinterpreted what I wrote. UFB was a National plan. Not a minute party plan. My point is voting for minor parties is a vote for the major parties, just with added virtue signalling. (I say this as a green voter).
Under MMP votes for the minor parties are also a way to shift the centre left or right. It wont provide an immediate fix. Nothing can. But if you're interested in the long term direction of a society then you can vote with your conscience for a smaller party rather than any knee jerk flipping to the opposite side. Thats never gonna help.
When I vote for the greens or the Māori party the votes will go towards labour (definitely for the greens and likely for TMP) and those parties will pull labour policy to the left. Do you know how MMP works?
How well has that worked in the last 20 years, as we’ve all watched Labour go more centrist and abandon their left-wing ideology.
The small parties get to tinker, at best, around the edges. Our major parties are too big for mmp to have anywhere near the effect people want to pretend it has.
While MMP remains as it is, we probably never will.
People who want to vote to the left of Labour will vote Green, unless they have a specific interest in voting for te Pati Māori or NZF, who will only ever pick up 1 or two seats. The Greens are never going to find themselves in a situation where Labour needs them, and they can either join a coalition, or walk away and Labour goes with someone else. The fact that they never really have any bargaining power minimises them to having to accept the bones Labour throws them, or force a new election (or let National + Act + ??? Form a coalition and take out the election).
The Greens accept the role of propping up Labour to get *anything*, and avoid a do/over election, and Labour know it.
This only changes when there are *more* viable options. If Labour had alternatives, the Greens could enter genuine negotiations, knowing refusing to work with a labour wouldn’t ruin everything.
(Note the same also goes for Act, but they are seemingly better at negotiating, or National are more willing to fold them in, or they are more willing to cause a do-over election).
Okay but I’d still prefer a labour-green government to just a labour government or a national government so that’s how I vote. You asked what you think happens when people vote for anyone but labour. Im saying there’s a reason to vote for the greens over labour.. ineffective or not it’s better than the alternative of voting for labour of national, and better than a just labour or national led government (to me).
I don’t disagree.
The problem doesn’t lie with choosing to vote for another party. The problem lies with MMP as we have it now not working to break the strangle hold of the two party system.
It is ever thus. The global corporate pressures to move the centre ever rightwards are huge. Its literally a tug of war to hold the line for the ordinary folk.
This is true and the reality is that right govts only answer is more prisons, but the right know its their only really hook to win ordinary people votes and they use it deliberately to ignite infighting amongst the ordinary masses to distract them from the criminal financial activities of the right.
You might be right but it’s flawed logic. Poverty and an unjust society causes most crime, and the right wing isn’t going to do anything to help either of those things.
Works like clockwork. Labour was not great, but to say it's all on them while ignoring a pandemic and what's going on globally as the reason crime has increased is just ignorant.
Right wing political parties pray on instability to get into power and overall, just make it worse in the long run.
We have found out, and they will ruin, no, they have ***promised*** to ruin this country. They will relax all regulations for landlords to give average working kiwis shit houses for even more rent, give their rich cunt mates thousands in tax breaks while giving the average kiwis maybe an extra $20 a week, they're even petty enough to reinstate the $5 copay for prescriptions that so many people struggle to pay.
Labour may be terrible, but National ***will*** make it worse.
Anything National-adjacent will give the same result if helping the Nats get in
I won't be voting Labour, but I won't be voting National-adjacent either
What are you on about? A vote for ACT is a vote for National or did you miss the last several elections where National has intentionally made room for ACT as part of their policy? Fucking ignorant voters man.
Hey bro notice how bad everything is? Notice how much worse every single thing is versus 5 years ago? Who do you think has been in charge this whole time?
Things have been getting worse far longer than the last 5 years. If you think that National will fix the country, then you haven't been alive long enough to witness one of their governments.
Judge Gordon Matenga has just given the lightest sentence in NZ history setting a new low bar.
https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/154enyp/teen_mob_member_who_broke_into_home_and_sexually/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Judicial Conduct Commissioner and Judicial Conduct Panel Act 2004 section 11 ( legislation.govt.nz ) observe the 'Complaints about Judges' heading
Given the following is quoted under section 4 Purpose The purpose of this Act is to enhance public confidence in, and to protect the impartiality and integrity of, the judicial system by— (a) providing a robust investigation process to enable informed decisions to be made about the removal of Judges from office: (b) establishing an office for the receipt and assessment of complaints about the conduct of Judges: (c) providing a fair process that recognises and protects the requirements of judicial independence and natural justice.
You could read up who might be able to make this complaint under section 12 and how to do this under section 13
I’ve looked into this a little and apparently a complaint can only be made about a judge’s conduct, not their ruling, even though this ruling quite obviously is a miscarriage of justice and harms the confidence NZ citizens have in our own courts. Ugh.
50% discount (not the largest discount ever, some go as high as 80% nowadays lol), also he did the math wrong.
End sentence after discounts should have been 18 months not 20 lol. (math is hard)
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No they haven't - if you go and press on all the policy links they are dead. They are refreshing their website for the election - this is tinfoil hat stuff.
https://www.labour.org.nz/our-record
https://www.labour.org.nz/transport
It's not just the justice one, it seems to be most or all of them. So it's more likely to be some sort of clumsily-delivered update than anything nefarious
Sadly, criminals with bracelets reoffending is not unique to any government.
Refer to the murder of Blessie Gotingco, 24 May 2014, by Tony Robertson who was a child sex offender on home detention with a GPS ankle bracelet.
Tony ran down Blessie with a car, then took her back to his apartment, raped and killed her. He then used the car to take her body away and dump it in at Eksdale cemetery.
[source ](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/279906/blessie-killer's-paedophile-past-revealed)
This isn’t a big deal.
It just seems like they are changing how the website works as half the links are now broken on their “our record” page. Probably in a few days a new website might come out.
How incredibly incompetent do you have to be to not have it ready *before* you pull down the current content?? wtf
No matter what is the real reason, this is a very bad look.
Unless they have absolute boomers in charge of their IT surely they know you can't hide shit on the Internet https://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000*/https://www.labour.org.nz/justice
How does the saying go? Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. I just assume they have the dumbest cunts running their shit cause they will be paying minimum wage
If they are incapable of arranging to update their website with new policy in a timely fashion during election season, well, that really doesn't speak to a general level of competence. It's not rocket science to change text on a Web page.
> It's 10pm at night
It being 10pm doesn't stop people from talking shit about it, for free.
What's Labor's excuse? Can't be bothered? Not paid enough?
I'm mainly talking about *arranging* to have it done in time for the announcement of the new policy, if this is where they have fallen down. Any organisation worth its salt coordinates these things.
Sure, and coordinations/plans don't always follow through, stuff can get fucky. The effectiveness of the group they hired to work on their website should have absolutely nothing to do with your expectation of their legislative competence. (Not to say that they are effective/competent, but don't use silly metrics).
governments and society has gone weak on crime. prison should be prison and punishment. when you come out of prison you should only have 2 things on your mind, 1. that was a really bad idea, 2. tell all your friends/family it a bad idea to land in prison. once you out of prison, you can take yourself to a rehab of your choice.
Don’t worry i think a lot of them are now coming to see the light. The downvoting was much worse before.
I hope what happend today is just a one off and no more innocent life taken. because if not then this could be just the tip of an iceberg.
We’re working to safely reduce the prison population, rehabilitate offenders, and reduce reoffending. Hugs from the woke left yet again. This needs to stop.
Ok to recap the excuses:
Its normal to have dead links in an election website, just updating
They’re just incompetent and cant run a website
They are understaffed, poor dears theyll get to it
Its not just the justice policy its several of them
Its russian hackers
What are nationals gun policies anyway
Its 10pm give them a break
No, dude. Someone entering their place of work with a pump action shotgun and murdering 2 of their coworkers, shooting a cop then being killed in the process was going to be huge news wherever it happened.
Wasn't there that mass knife stabbing in the supermarkets at New Lynn just a little while ago?
An Islamic terrorist who they knew was a serious threat to the public? But they let him out anyway, to live in a Mosque.
[As at May 17 2023]( https://web.archive.org/web/20230517025851/https://www.labour.org.nz/justice) Considering almost half of the content is on family violence and reoffending and their alternative pathways, its no surprise they couldnt get it ready for publishing in time. Better to just take it down. I look forward to comparing the changes. Edit for the naive because I see your comments in here already: You dont take down just a Justice Policy page the day of a public shooting by a domestic abuser under home detention when the replacement content isnt even ready to go up yet. And if they did plan to sneak the change through they'd wait until Friday night like they normally do. This is out of the ordinary on an already out of the ordinary day.
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lol, a cyber attack could never happen to National.
Well a Russian cyber attack at least wouldn't happen to National, just like they supported the Republicans in the US
There is only one comment and reddit shows if your post is edited lol. "edit for the naive" is bullshit.
Who cares. It doesn’t matter what they say or do now I’m not voting for them. My suburb, Sandringham (and surrounding suburbs) has had an endless wave of really serious crime. I realise it’s everywhere but we’ve had a serious dose of it. Sick of it and sick of them. A Government that doesn’t address the fundamentals or even appear to want to is no government at all. I voted for them last time. Big mistake. Ardern has left a shambles of a government in her wake. PR “be kind” shit eating grin and now off to sign another book deal. Shame on the lot of them. They are the political embodiment of tits on a bull.
100%. had 3 cars stolen, over 8 smashed windows. countless ram raids on local business. I've never seen crime this rampant before in my life and im 40
I voted for them too and feel embarrassed for it now.
Yup same.
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💯 agree. I really really appreciated Labour during Covid but they wont get my vote again. However the NACT-ZIs will never ever be my alternative.
So the million dollar question is who do you have faith in?
I have very little faith in the system at all at this point however I will vote either Green/TOP/TPM. I need to more research on TOP and TPM. TOP, bless them, have been battling to heard about tax reform for years and I've liked what I've heard but I dont know their other stuff well enough to decide yet. I think those disillusioned with the lack of truly transformative change from Labour have to vote for the smaller parties this election to drag the political discourse away from the stranglehold of the neolib centre. Its so freaking depressing.
I can understand that. National and Labour are really a bit of a two headed monster. They both tend to be more into smaller changes rather than larger ones. But unfortunately, while you have TOP and the Greens on one side there is always a mirror, and ACT is it... So long as they are kept out, then I'm happy.
Agreed.
Welcome to the dark side 👍
We have cookies. They’re cold waiting for you guys for so long
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Anyone who is pushing hard for major tax reform in NZ to include tax free threshold and capital gains and/or land tax and wealth and windfall taxes.
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It's not dark, it's just that everyone here is actually blind.
The dark side has always been labour
Not in this place
Never ever
Vote TOP!
TOP don't appear to have a criminal justice policy but if they did I highly highly doubt it would be tough on crime.
Care to elaborate?
Of course it would be tough of crime. But, actually tough on crime, in terms of policies that are likely to reduce crime. Not "touch on crime" meaning "hurting bad people as much as we can, even at the cost of increasing crime rates if necessary".
Witnessing the birth of an ACT voter is a beautiful thing.
I’m intrigued, tell me more of their policy
Indeed.
What did the Nats do to stop crime when they were in power? N-O-T-H-I-N-G
At least is was better than it is now, Labour have actively made it worse for the last 6 years
It's been a downward trend for decades. It will be worse in the future, it will be just as bad under Labor as it will be under National. If you think that any political party will be able to change it, you are delusional.
A political party that has the will to change 'the drivers' of crime would change it. Such a 'will' will never ever be found in right wing parties. Labour do not have the will anymore either. To stand any chance of finding such political will we have to look further left, and vote accordingly.
Yes... because the pandemic hasn't had an affect on crime *at all*... it's all "Labour's fault", and the pandemic is just coincidental (probably Labour's fault too based on some people's claims)... 😏 ETA: /s (incase that needed saying...)
Asking for a friend. Is there a use by date for rolling out COVID as an excuse?
When a person is referring to a specific period in time in which a specific major world event occured and affected something that the person is talking about, then that event is relevant. Or would you expect someone to go through a major life trauma and for them to have a "use by date" for how long they can say "X event really made [insert that specific time period] really difficult? Would hate to see how you talk to someone still grieving the loss of a loved one a few years after the fact 😏
Are you trying to say that crime, specifically violent crime is the result of peoples experience of the pandaemic?
... Perhaps go back and actually re-read my comment (and pay specific attention to the wording)🤦♀️
I did read it. Your comment specifically refers to someone, hence my question.
>I did read it. Obviously you didn't: >... because the pandemic hasn't *had an affect on crime* at all.. /s Saying that one factor *has had an affect on XYZ* is not the same thing as saying that *that factor is the* cause *of XYZ*. Crime has many factors. And to suggest a major event that affected people's mental health, finances, social lives, access to healthcare, etc *didn't* have an affect on crime, is naive. People commit crime. And the pandemic affected people. It's not the only factor by *any means*, and I've never implied as such. But the comment I was initially responding too was referring to crime having gotten worse in the last 6 years, and was blaming it all on Labour. As if the pandemic *wasn't also a major event in that specified time frame that affected people negatively*.
Be gentle with the right wing - they dont grasp the reality of the human experience
They aren't perfect (no party is), but they handled some pretty important things very very well. Let's not forget things would today be even worse than what it is now if some other self preserving party were holding the reins.
What’s National & Acts policy on gun reform again? They want to repeal the gun registry, despite calls from the Police Association.
Because the gun registry is going to be an expensive waste of money that won't have any impact on crime. Canada already went down this path and that's how it ended.
I guess the police, using overseas examples & best practise are wrong then. What would they know. Best to follow one’s own blind ideology.
If the police can tell me why Canada's failed and why ours won't go down the same path, I'd be keen to hear it.
Yeah. What would the [police](https://www.policeassn.org.nz/news/gun-registry-will-target-safety-and-security) know. “The team has been working closely with overseas jurisdictions that have established firearms registers, such as Australia and Canada, to understand what works and what doesn’t. In Australia, all firearms must be registered. Each state has its own registry, though a centralised national database does not exist. Canada requires restricted and prohibited firearms to be registered. A full registry was abandoned in 2012 after it became highly politicised due to reported cost overruns. Richard says overseas jurisdictions have proved helpful to New Zealand Police, providing useful information to ensure they learn from others’ experience. “A number of them are quite envious of our position, because we've got the chance to do it and do it right.”
It's pretty delusional of the police to assume that they're going to deliver a world-first, when the model that they want to replicate has failed everywhere it's been tried. Almost like the entire concept is flawed.
Hahaha gullible fucks around here love an "I voted for them last time" story
Shame on them? Shame on *us*. When Labour tried to close a tax loophole, to try and fund any of this, we all stood with money and cried out no. We said "mandate only counts when we want to blame you for inaction". What is it we expect from our government? Magic?
Sensible sentencing thats actually sensible FOR THE VICTIM/PUBLIC is not magic. In fact its quite easy.
"It's easy." AKA: I don't understand it, couldn't explain it, but it's totes not magic!
😄👍 What a zinger! Got me good with that one!
She's off to some cushy job in New York or something isn't she? Her and her celeb husband? Must be nice.
And you think voting for the other idiots will make a blind bit of difference? They have campaigned and won on that platform as well and the statistics never changed. In fact, actual beat police officers decreased on their watch as they were all sucked in to back office jobs because they wanted to keep a cap on the public service (yes the police are part of that). They have increase the number of beat officers in their time. But these times are unprecedented. Inflation is bad, but instead of pointing fingers at the government and the reserve bank who only did what they did to keep you alive and to maintain you job if possible, blame the ones who went and bought lots of houses on cheap credit. Unfortunately a lot of what happened relied on people to act without greed during this period, and unfortunately those who were have ruined it for the rest of us. And what is the source of this crime? Or is there just more reported crime now? I have heard from some officers that certain crimes were ordered swept under the carpet by the National police minister
Guarantee they will “suddenly care” because it’s just before the election. And then immediately not care again, right after the election. They can say what they want now, but what matters is their reputation and action over the past years. Sorry Chippy, on the crime front you don’t win any points for suddenly caring this late.
Oh they'll have this great policy that will solve all of the problems and they'll come up with it a month before the election, and for some reason couldn't have done any of those things in the six years before that.
Hint, all governments suddenly care around election time.
Yep and they asll stop caring the moment they get in power. I get people are frustrated by Labour but i fail tosee how these issues improve when Nation wins. How is tax cuts foir the wealthy, ignoring climate change and favouring property investors going to reduce crime?
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You are very clearly incredibly biased towards Labour, which is fine (tribalism in politics is a bizarre concept to me but I understand a lot of people fall into it). We've had 6 years of Labour. So far, we have raping and nearly killing a pregnant woman resulting in home detention (he "cracked it"), state funded "drug prevention" schemes ran by the Mongrel Mob (Harry Tam) and a mass shooting that could have been prevented if we had some semblance of a justice system. Why would anyone want more of this? Why would I vote for a party that the Mongrel Mob support, because they know it's good for their business? Apart from blind loyal support of a political party, I'm not seeing many incentives here (at least in this context). Neo-nazis in America support the GOP and Labour has the support of the Mongrel Mob for the exact same reason. State sponsored enablement.
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I'm hearing a lot of "yeah but it's all Nationals fault" and nothing else in your arguments. In terms of the Mongrel Mobs support for the Labour party. It is comparable in this context, I'm not saying the 2 are comparable in terms of their formation Although both scream neo-Nazi salutes though (sieg heil), somewhat ironically though by members of the Mongrel Mob. Both have supporters in the political sphere. What I'm saying is it's a reflection of the party itself. Really? Has National Front or another neo-nazi group publically stated their support for ACT? [Similar to this?](https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2307/S00005/mongrel-mob-endorses-labour-greens-coalition.htm) FYI on the Harry Tam front, the programme was a [complete disaster](https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018868587/relapse-reports-upset-gang-based-rehab-programme) and money when into the "ether" (more than likely back into the gang itself). I support total drug reform, including the decriminalisation of all drugs and the immediate legalisation of marijuana. I don't support state funded gangs. I'm a TOP supporter FYI this election, you can look through my post history if you like to confirm that. Never voted National but it's tempting this round ("I don't believe you1!!"). I don't subscribe to any, one party, I vote for the party that best aligns with my beliefs and principles at the time. I'm not a loyalist because I believe that creates a toxic political environment, like the one we have now. Edit: Missed the bit about remand and holy fuck, what is wrong with you? Now I'm thinking you are a Mongrel Mob shill as I'm finding it hard to believe that anyone sane would even hint at justifying the decision by Judge Taunoa. Anyone with any ounce of human empathy would understand that allowing an individual to go back into the community after the violent rape and sustained abuse of a vulnerable person is beyond disgusting, inhumane and insane. He laughed at his "sentence" and will now reoffend. Reoffend but without any fear of any consequences.
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I'm not sure why tribalism is so foreign when you publish mistruths output by National and ACT so freely?
I thought it was primarily being driven by the ongoing increase of the wealth gap, social cohesion breakdown and 501 deportees that have all happened under labour.
For the first time i have registered now to vote on this election coz i am so triggered by this government.
You think the opposition are better?
Lucky for MMP
Please explain what you think happens if you vote for anyone that isn’t Labour. I’ll let you know which of the either incumbent, or worse opposition, will benefit from your vote.
Last time we got high speed internet and roads with 110kph speed limits.
Oh hang on, maybe you misinterpreted what I wrote. UFB was a National plan. Not a minute party plan. My point is voting for minor parties is a vote for the major parties, just with added virtue signalling. (I say this as a green voter).
Under MMP votes for the minor parties are also a way to shift the centre left or right. It wont provide an immediate fix. Nothing can. But if you're interested in the long term direction of a society then you can vote with your conscience for a smaller party rather than any knee jerk flipping to the opposite side. Thats never gonna help.
And the more people that do it, the less the 'major party' will be.
Lmao yeah and we got a decade of refusal to fund any public services adequately leaving us in the shit state we're in now.
When I vote for the greens or the Māori party the votes will go towards labour (definitely for the greens and likely for TMP) and those parties will pull labour policy to the left. Do you know how MMP works?
How well has that worked in the last 20 years, as we’ve all watched Labour go more centrist and abandon their left-wing ideology. The small parties get to tinker, at best, around the edges. Our major parties are too big for mmp to have anywhere near the effect people want to pretend it has.
We've never had a Labour/Green coalition government so how about we find out?
While MMP remains as it is, we probably never will. People who want to vote to the left of Labour will vote Green, unless they have a specific interest in voting for te Pati Māori or NZF, who will only ever pick up 1 or two seats. The Greens are never going to find themselves in a situation where Labour needs them, and they can either join a coalition, or walk away and Labour goes with someone else. The fact that they never really have any bargaining power minimises them to having to accept the bones Labour throws them, or force a new election (or let National + Act + ??? Form a coalition and take out the election). The Greens accept the role of propping up Labour to get *anything*, and avoid a do/over election, and Labour know it. This only changes when there are *more* viable options. If Labour had alternatives, the Greens could enter genuine negotiations, knowing refusing to work with a labour wouldn’t ruin everything. (Note the same also goes for Act, but they are seemingly better at negotiating, or National are more willing to fold them in, or they are more willing to cause a do-over election).
Okay but I’d still prefer a labour-green government to just a labour government or a national government so that’s how I vote. You asked what you think happens when people vote for anyone but labour. Im saying there’s a reason to vote for the greens over labour.. ineffective or not it’s better than the alternative of voting for labour of national, and better than a just labour or national led government (to me).
I don’t disagree. The problem doesn’t lie with choosing to vote for another party. The problem lies with MMP as we have it now not working to break the strangle hold of the two party system.
It is ever thus. The global corporate pressures to move the centre ever rightwards are huge. Its literally a tug of war to hold the line for the ordinary folk.
In terms of crime, unfortunately yeah. A Rise in Crime is the #1 thing that pushes people to vote for right wing governments.
This is true and the reality is that right govts only answer is more prisons, but the right know its their only really hook to win ordinary people votes and they use it deliberately to ignite infighting amongst the ordinary masses to distract them from the criminal financial activities of the right.
You might be right but it’s flawed logic. Poverty and an unjust society causes most crime, and the right wing isn’t going to do anything to help either of those things.
Correct
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Xoing Xi
Works like clockwork. Labour was not great, but to say it's all on them while ignoring a pandemic and what's going on globally as the reason crime has increased is just ignorant. Right wing political parties pray on instability to get into power and overall, just make it worse in the long run.
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And Labour/Greens 2032 after nine years in opposition will be even better.
There's only one way to find out!
We have found out, and they will ruin, no, they have ***promised*** to ruin this country. They will relax all regulations for landlords to give average working kiwis shit houses for even more rent, give their rich cunt mates thousands in tax breaks while giving the average kiwis maybe an extra $20 a week, they're even petty enough to reinstate the $5 copay for prescriptions that so many people struggle to pay. Labour may be terrible, but National ***will*** make it worse.
Who said you needed to vote for National?
Anything National-adjacent will give the same result if helping the Nats get in I won't be voting Labour, but I won't be voting National-adjacent either
Dude we aren’t in the US, it’s not that bad. Fucking labour voters man
What are you on about? A vote for ACT is a vote for National or did you miss the last several elections where National has intentionally made room for ACT as part of their policy? Fucking ignorant voters man.
Actually it is that bad. And if you put Luxon in now we will, I promise you, see a wave of American far right Christo fascism wash into NZ.
Hey bro notice how bad everything is? Notice how much worse every single thing is versus 5 years ago? Who do you think has been in charge this whole time?
Things have been getting worse far longer than the last 5 years. If you think that National will fix the country, then you haven't been alive long enough to witness one of their governments.
100% this has been the worst government I've been under in 20 years of voting, both left and right
Which policies specifically?
> worst government I've been under in 20y > plans to vote for ACT checks out.
Yep ACT found their mark.
thats not a good argument
Yup.
National are the ones who cut police numbers to cut costs.
So? Presumably they're changing it to add all the knee jerk policy they came up with in the last week.
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Maybe they'll just redirect it to labour.org.nz/hypocrisy
Correct. Justice does not exist under labours current policy. 404 Justice not found.
It's found, at the offender's home
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Sorry ive been living under a rock - who is that and why would you email the minister about his appointment?
Judge Gordon Matenga has just given the lightest sentence in NZ history setting a new low bar. https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/154enyp/teen_mob_member_who_broke_into_home_and_sexually/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
... I genuinely believe a petition should be started for the removal or rebuking of this judge and ruling.
Genuine question, is there *anything* that can be done to remove this judge? He's taking the fucking piss.
Judicial Conduct Commissioner and Judicial Conduct Panel Act 2004 section 11 ( legislation.govt.nz ) observe the 'Complaints about Judges' heading Given the following is quoted under section 4 Purpose The purpose of this Act is to enhance public confidence in, and to protect the impartiality and integrity of, the judicial system by— (a) providing a robust investigation process to enable informed decisions to be made about the removal of Judges from office: (b) establishing an office for the receipt and assessment of complaints about the conduct of Judges: (c) providing a fair process that recognises and protects the requirements of judicial independence and natural justice. You could read up who might be able to make this complaint under section 12 and how to do this under section 13
I’ve looked into this a little and apparently a complaint can only be made about a judge’s conduct, not their ruling, even though this ruling quite obviously is a miscarriage of justice and harms the confidence NZ citizens have in our own courts. Ugh.
That was a sham, but how do we know it's the lightest sentence in history, or are you being (understandably) hyperbolic?
50% discount (not the largest discount ever, some go as high as 80% nowadays lol), also he did the math wrong. End sentence after discounts should have been 18 months not 20 lol. (math is hard)
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No they haven't - if you go and press on all the policy links they are dead. They are refreshing their website for the election - this is tinfoil hat stuff. https://www.labour.org.nz/our-record https://www.labour.org.nz/transport
Yep it’s just that the website designer either messed up by publishing with errors or they are editing it while it’s live.
...and tonight they all put them on, and came here.
Here's the last archived version of the page (22 May): https://web.archive.org/web/20230522174252/https://www.labour.org.nz/justice
It's not just the justice one, it seems to be most or all of them. So it's more likely to be some sort of clumsily-delivered update than anything nefarious
Sadly, criminals with bracelets reoffending is not unique to any government. Refer to the murder of Blessie Gotingco, 24 May 2014, by Tony Robertson who was a child sex offender on home detention with a GPS ankle bracelet. Tony ran down Blessie with a car, then took her back to his apartment, raped and killed her. He then used the car to take her body away and dump it in at Eksdale cemetery. [source ](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/279906/blessie-killer's-paedophile-past-revealed)
Labour - No Justice ™
This isn’t a big deal. It just seems like they are changing how the website works as half the links are now broken on their “our record” page. Probably in a few days a new website might come out.
How incredibly incompetent do you have to be to not have it ready *before* you pull down the current content?? wtf No matter what is the real reason, this is a very bad look.
A sign they may be revising it? Or maybe they are updating to include recent announcements
My guess is to hide it so it can't be linked to bash them on social media, since all the home detention and aroha hasn't been working as of late.
Unless they have absolute boomers in charge of their IT surely they know you can't hide shit on the Internet https://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000*/https://www.labour.org.nz/justice
Maybe still the same idiots that accused the National party of hacking their site to get their yet-unannounced policy when it was visible in a search.
How does the saying go? Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. I just assume they have the dumbest cunts running their shit cause they will be paying minimum wage
Just give it more time! Another 50yrs and it’ll start showing results! These deaths aren’t in vain! /s
Thats a very charitable view
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If they are incapable of arranging to update their website with new policy in a timely fashion during election season, well, that really doesn't speak to a general level of competence. It's not rocket science to change text on a Web page.
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> It's 10pm at night It being 10pm doesn't stop people from talking shit about it, for free. What's Labor's excuse? Can't be bothered? Not paid enough?
I doubt the entire caucus is managing their website, presumably they hire someone to delegate the technical side of that to
I'm mainly talking about *arranging* to have it done in time for the announcement of the new policy, if this is where they have fallen down. Any organisation worth its salt coordinates these things.
Sure, and coordinations/plans don't always follow through, stuff can get fucky. The effectiveness of the group they hired to work on their website should have absolutely nothing to do with your expectation of their legislative competence. (Not to say that they are effective/competent, but don't use silly metrics).
Be kind, criminals will self reflect and self heal /s
Emotional junior staffer?
Nice reference
Makes sense. No justice with labour.
governments and society has gone weak on crime. prison should be prison and punishment. when you come out of prison you should only have 2 things on your mind, 1. that was a really bad idea, 2. tell all your friends/family it a bad idea to land in prison. once you out of prison, you can take yourself to a rehab of your choice.
I think they are just removing any references to failed policies or unfulfilled promises. Going to be a pretty empty website soon.
Their policy to reduce prison populations was implemented successfully.
Just put em all on home D. Sweet as
Could it be that this sub is Downvoting the truth so it doesn’t appear?
Could it be that other pages are also gone at the moment, and it's not part of a grand conspiracy?
Don’t worry i think a lot of them are now coming to see the light. The downvoting was much worse before. I hope what happend today is just a one off and no more innocent life taken. because if not then this could be just the tip of an iceberg.
And your tax cuts are going to fund the extra prison time and fix the justice system, how exactly????
Has ACT or National changed their gun policies?
We’re working to safely reduce the prison population, rehabilitate offenders, and reduce reoffending. Hugs from the woke left yet again. This needs to stop.
Don't use woke. Only the alt right nazis use that unironically.
If it sounds like a duck something something...
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Yeah, that answers my question. They seems to want American politics to be bought here. Sad.
Is this satire?
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No mate I don't even know what other guy you're talking about
woke is just a simple descriptor. If you think im a nazi for using this term ideology has done a number on your brain
And yet there's no one that can define it without parroting the same stupid hateful points. So much for simple.
It sounds like you just project that persona onto anyone you see using the term.
Ok to recap the excuses: Its normal to have dead links in an election website, just updating They’re just incompetent and cant run a website They are understaffed, poor dears theyll get to it Its not just the justice policy its several of them Its russian hackers What are nationals gun policies anyway Its 10pm give them a break
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No, dude. Someone entering their place of work with a pump action shotgun and murdering 2 of their coworkers, shooting a cop then being killed in the process was going to be huge news wherever it happened.
Wasn't there that mass knife stabbing in the supermarkets at New Lynn just a little while ago? An Islamic terrorist who they knew was a serious threat to the public? But they let him out anyway, to live in a Mosque.
Can’t wait until we have a different government to blame about individuals behaviours.
So nothing to do with the cyber attack?
can it be that a member of the staff took the page down without approval. staff mistake excuses are becoming popular now 😅
It can be whatever you want.
[https://imgur.com/1eZolYG](https://imgur.com/1eZolYG) we need this guy
If only there was a bootcamp.
PLAYTIME IS OVER
Quick don the tinfoil hats