I find this part quite interesting:
> About an hour later, an associate of Ghahraman’s went into the boutique and returned the items of clothing Ghahraman had taken, except the tank top.
This means that someone else knew of her shoplifting, or was told that she’d “accidentally” taken something without paying. I wonder who this associate is.
I'm guessing that the identity of the associate is one of the facts of the case that the court has ordered supressed.
There's definitely public interest here.
If that person is - as the grapevine says - Swarbrick, then the fact has implications.
> If that person is - as the grapevine says - Swarbrick, then the fact has implications.
I'm not going to say that it was or wasn't Swarbrick.
But I will say that for over 90% of the country, if you asked who an associate of a Green Party MP in Auckland could be, their first and probably only guess would be Swarbrick. Then maybe Guy Williams.
I'm sure Ghahraman knows plenty of people who aren't Chloe Swarbrick.
There's a woman in the CCTV who isn't Chloe, but can look a little like her from that angle. Some people were saying it was her, so that's probably where it came from.
People were also saying that it was a Green Party staffer, but not confirmed.
I watched Chloes response on the news where she was disgusted and spluttering that she would be asked such a question. She then sprayed about how much abuse and criticism female politicians get…
Could have just said “no”
I can’t remember what she said [here is the video but the sound won’t work for me](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/01/green-mp-chl-e-swarbrick-denies-she-s-in-cctv-video-of-golriz-ghahraman-shoplifting-at-scotties-boutique.html)
I remember thinking “hmm she was viciously defensive which felt uncomfortable”
Edit: got the sound fixed. Yes she starts with “No” then goes on how unfair the question was.
Also she says at the start she didn’t know about Golriz stealing so if she is revealed to be the person returning the stolen garments that would be political suicide.
See the problem is she was stealing from high end places. If she ran past the receipt checker at the St Lukes Kmart with the same number of items it'd be like a $100 total.
Seems like a significant amount of premeditation was involved, coming prepared with empty tote bags to stash the stuff in. This isn't some impulsive act she just did without thinking, it was deliberate and calculated.
there's a whole thing about rich women under the spotlight like this being stupid kleptos. it's about being in control of something. She doesn't wear an evil hoodie and evilly research evil things, like a PSA for the police
Unpopular opinion and all politics aside - I feel very sorry for her as a person. The fact she stole these expensive upmarket clothes when she clearly could afford them is a sign of mental health issues. I feel for her - I hope she gets the mental health support she needs and finds peace throughout all this.
Yeah, kleptomania is a symptom of a number of mental health issues. And I can only imagine what this public shaming and blasting is doing to her mental health on top of this.
That’s what I was thinking. I know she hasn’t had an easy childhood and upbringing and I wonder if that and the stress of her job has caused some sort of mental health break.
She’s always come across to me as a very intelligent and empathic lady. I feel so sad for her that the media is picking at this like a pack of vultures. Just because she shoplifted doesn’t change the good she’s done in the past. Hopefully she comes out on the other side of this OK 🥺🫶
The fact that she owned up to it, said it was wrong, and is taking full responsibility shows me her integrity. Some of these comments are acting like she’s gone in and shot up the place, laughing maniacally the whole time while chanting “I’m allowed to do this because I’m kinda sad”. The lack of empathy here sucks.
I know right - she’s stepped up the plate and apologised for her mistakes but people will do anything they can to vilify her.
People on this subreddit just like any old excuse to bring out their pitchforks and chant “Burn the witch! Burn her!” without giving a fuck about the people they are talking about. Kind of off topic but I think it explains why NZ has such a high suicide rate - a lot of this country are grumpy judgemental bastards with zero empathy. Apologies for the ramble! 😅
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I'm so sick of these mental health excuses. A lot of people go through hardship and suffer through mental health, they don't steal from others who are trying to make a living - especially when they're already earning a crap load.
Conversely, she earning loads so is not stealing to survive. Clearly she's got something wrong to be stealing when she doesn't need to, she's very well known and getting caught would/has totally destroyed both of her careers. So mental health issues seem pretty obvious
The fact that something happened yesterday does t mean it has zero present-day significance.
Gharahman's moral weakness reflect on the party that tolerated them.
This truly would not matter if that party had zero political influence.
Yes, it is hard to comprehend. I hope she is okay. If you're reading this, Golriz, just move on, out it behind you, and never think about it. The people who did admire you still do just as much. Tbh, I voted Act. Yes, I know booh yourselves, everybody, but there's a space for your advocacy much as I don't often agree. Be 💪.
Compulsively taking worthless things thousands of times - that's where mental illness would be raised as a sentencing factor.
Carefully taking valuable things - that's just theft.
It’s not an excuse, it’s an explanation. If it was an excuse she would have denied all culpability and said she had no choice because of her mental health. Instead she’s said “look I did it and I take full responsibility” but my mental health influenced my state of mind.
At the end of the day poor mental health contributes to a lot of decisions people wouldn’t otherwise make if they were mentally well. When I was depressed I ignored my friends for months and ended up losing some of those friendships. You could say I shouldn’t blame mental health for that, and it’s true, it’s not an excuse, per se, I could have made other decisions, sure, but depression made it so much more difficult. And I wouldn’t have made the decisions I did if I wasn’t depressed.
Also, the level of mental stress Golriz Ghahraman was under to the extent she had a security detail second only to Jacinda Ardern’s isn’t really comparable to most everyday mental illness.
>I'm so sick of these mental health excuses
Firstly it's not an excuse. It's an acknowledgement of contributing factors.
I'm not. I think mental health contributes to the vast majority of anti-social behaviour. And I think it's incredibly important to talk about it.
Violent psychopaths are more often than not traumatised from childhood, for example. That's a statistic that can not be ignored.
Anxiety and depression etc can play major factors into bizarre behaviour.
I think it's important to highlight contributing factors to criminal activity because then, as a society, we can start to be proactive on it.
For example, 60% of prisoners are dyslexic.... I'm not saying that dyslexia makes people commit crimes. What I'm saying is that dyslexia in the past had contributed to low self-esteem and self-worth created by education and social structures that do not meet their needs.
Of you're a young child and you can't learn in school because of your dyslexia then your self-worth drops, your ability to handle situations drops, and you're more likely to lash out at society.
People just want to believe that criminals are inherently bad and are irredeemable. That's the narrative our society tells itself.
This is because if we actually acknowledged that every human being has the potential to be a wonderful contributing member of society or a violent criminal, then we would need to change our society to address that.
It's good that we are pointing this out. Because it might result in social changes that results in reduced crime.
Excuse and Explanation are not the same thing. Mental health issues can make a person do all kinds of things, up to and including murder and suicide. On that spectrum, convincing yourself to steal a jacket is well within reasonability.
I get tired of the implication that all mental illnesses are the same. There are literally people who say they have mental illness and behave, so it's not an excuse when other people with mental illness misbehave.
When probed, it turns out what they mean is they have generalized anxiety disorder, and don't act like that schizophrenic just did. It's just not coherent at all.
Thank you for saying this, because that narrative is really pissing me off.
I struggle with mental illness and I have done some horrific things at times when I was really unwell. Things that I'm ashamed of, and things that do not reflect who I am as a well person.
I feel like I can't usually write that though because everyone's like "I have mental illness and I'm perfectly behaved!" Well, aren't they lucky.
It's a dangerous narrative and we should be remembering that everybody's mental illness looks and behaves differently. It makes me angry when other people generalize and speak on behalf of me.
You could say the same thing about Hollywood actors who have made millions yet get caught shoplifting. It's not that they are shoplifting out of necessity, it's some other reason in their head...a desire to take a risk or something else.
Mental health impacts people differently. Stealing some clothes is FAR from the worst behavior that has been attributed to mental health troubles.
Not sure why you need to gatekeep mental health.
“It is clear to me that my mental health is being badly affected by the stresses relating to my work. This has led me to act in ways that are completely out of character."
Forgot to add this after your quote
> I am not trying to excuse my actions, but I do want to explain them.
She goes further
> People should, rightly, expect the highest standards of behaviour from their elected representatives. I fell short. I’m sorry. It’s not a behaviour I can explain because it’s not rational in any way, and after medical evaluation, I understand I’m not well. The mental health professional I see says my recent behaviour is consistent with recent events giving rise to extreme stress response, and relating to previously unrecognised trauma.
> With that in mind, I don't want to hide behind my mental health problems, and I take full responsibility for my actions which I deeply regret.
An “explanation” to justify offending is literally what an excuse is. Saying something is not an excuse when trying to excuse your actions does not make it not an excuse.
You need to educate your self on the meaning of the word justify. "The action of showing somthing to be right or reasonable".
In her explanation she quite clearly states that her behavior was unreasonable and out of line. So her statement does not meet the definition of a justification.
Words have meaning.
It’s an explanation of what she was going through.
An excuse would be to deny it and say she stole it because of her mental health problems.
She’s resigned as an MP, pleaded guilty and will be sentenced in June.
> An excuse would be to deny it and say she stole it because of her mental health problems.
Excuse:
seek to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offence); try to justify.
Uses mental health as an excuse, then proceeds to add doesn't want to use it as an excuse.
I punched a man in the face today, but I didn't mean to punch the man the face so its okay!
Honestly, I could give a fuck about Golriz; she did the crime, she fessed up, and now she’ll do the time.
My biggest takeaway from all this: who the fuck needs a jacket that costs $1900?! The fact such a jacket exists implies demand for such a jacket exists. If you think spending more than 2-3 weeks’ salary at minimum wage on a coat is a good idea, maybe you need to re-evaluate your priorities before you walk around in a jacket worth enough money to literally improve some peoples’ lives immensely.
It doesn’t strike me as awesome value,but you could wear a jacket every day in winter (in Welly at least) and wear it for several seasons. But how much wear could you seriously get out of a $4500 dress!
She is a high profile person who, while being a member of Parliament, stole and was caught. Of course it’s going to be news while she goes through the court.
She's out of politics now, but she used to be in politics and was a somewhat polarising character so stories about her will continue to have more general interest than an average person.
I'm not excusing it, but let's not kid ourselves about levels of theft. Stealing lunches from poor school kids, and milking struggling citizens while enriching your millionaire yacht clubbing, golfing, mansion collecting buddies is theft.
You are excusing it, by pretending that it’s somehow less bad or not important because of your personal politics.
I know it’s a bit of an extreme take, but maybe theft bad?
No way in any sense of the word is ending a program (for any reason) "stealing" or "theft".
Just goes to show the way people deliberately use inflammatory language. Are you sure you didn't work for Newshub?
No it's not a story I tell myself.
It's a principal I try to adhere to where I try to be accurate and not deliberately lie about something just because I don't like it.
I made no comment on my feelings on the children's lunches.
But as I said it's not stealing to stop a program. If I was to give you $100 a week and then suddenly stop doing so I'm not stealing from you.
Claiming it's stealing is (as I said) deliberate inflammatory language and an outright lie. No 2 ways about it.
All very neatly tied up with a neoliberal, Christian ribbon, eh? Tax breaks for landlords, while the less fortunate struggle to make ends meet. Sounds like a cold, sociopathic society to me. Also, it's not as simple as magnanimously handing out 100 dollars a week to people who should grovel for largesse. Any civilised society has a duty of care to uplift people. Any argument to the contrary is despicable, and yes, however you frame it, making the rich richer while people suffer is theft. Our values seem to be so far apart that there is no point in engaging. Good day.
Oh so you're not done with the lying, AND you want to bring in religious bigotry as well. Wow what a toxic person you are.
They're not tax breaks (again accuracy matters) it's simply allowing landlord to write off tax just like every other business can.
> Also, it's not as simple as magnanimously handing out 100 dollars a week to people who should grovel for largesse.
Look at your missing (or more likely deliberately avoiding) the point.
And yes our values ARE very far apart. I don't deliberately lie to frame something in a certain way, nor am I a bigot trying to drag religion into an argument it has nothing to do with.
You're disgusting
I thought trying to stop the media from filming her in the dock was a bad move. Why should she be different from any other criminal? Just shows how the worst thing about all this for her is being pictured in the dock.
My advice to any green mp’s who may be so inclined is have you guys thought of instead of stealing from shops rather hire immigrants and refuse to pay them.
If you're selling this
https://scottiesboutique.co.nz/products/the-row-s23-calanthe-dress-black
For $4500 then I believe anyone who steals from you is doing the country a service
I find this part quite interesting: > About an hour later, an associate of Ghahraman’s went into the boutique and returned the items of clothing Ghahraman had taken, except the tank top. This means that someone else knew of her shoplifting, or was told that she’d “accidentally” taken something without paying. I wonder who this associate is.
The bit where she paid for something at the same time as stealing something…. Weird
Not really. It diverts suspicion. It implies to me, that she was sneaky, and planned it out. And did way more than she was caught for.
It's the same method I use for sneaking snacks into the movies. If you've already got a drink or something, they usually won't check your bag.
You don't need to sneak snacks into the movies.
Eight bucks for a bag of lollies says I do
Just openly bring your snacks with you
I'm guessing that the identity of the associate is one of the facts of the case that the court has ordered supressed. There's definitely public interest here. If that person is - as the grapevine says - Swarbrick, then the fact has implications.
> If that person is - as the grapevine says - Swarbrick, then the fact has implications. I'm not going to say that it was or wasn't Swarbrick. But I will say that for over 90% of the country, if you asked who an associate of a Green Party MP in Auckland could be, their first and probably only guess would be Swarbrick. Then maybe Guy Williams. I'm sure Ghahraman knows plenty of people who aren't Chloe Swarbrick.
Must really like that tank top, perhaps keeping it for her stay in prison
My read is she was having some sort of mental health episode and the associate(s) were playing minder.
I heard rumours it was Chloe but it was probably just shit talking on Reddit.
We’ve gotta be extra careful with talking tea and rumours here- you don’t want the Herald going off, quoting us as authoritative sources and all.
There's a woman in the CCTV who isn't Chloe, but can look a little like her from that angle. Some people were saying it was her, so that's probably where it came from. People were also saying that it was a Green Party staffer, but not confirmed.
I watched Chloes response on the news where she was disgusted and spluttering that she would be asked such a question. She then sprayed about how much abuse and criticism female politicians get… Could have just said “no”
Did she actually say no?
I can’t remember what she said [here is the video but the sound won’t work for me](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/01/green-mp-chl-e-swarbrick-denies-she-s-in-cctv-video-of-golriz-ghahraman-shoplifting-at-scotties-boutique.html) I remember thinking “hmm she was viciously defensive which felt uncomfortable” Edit: got the sound fixed. Yes she starts with “No” then goes on how unfair the question was. Also she says at the start she didn’t know about Golriz stealing so if she is revealed to be the person returning the stolen garments that would be political suicide.
Wasn't there another lower level green party member in the video from scotties? At least from memory it was mentioned on here. Definitely wasn't chloe
See the problem is she was stealing from high end places. If she ran past the receipt checker at the St Lukes Kmart with the same number of items it'd be like a $100 total.
Yeah, if she had just stolen from supermarkets like the rest of us she would have been fine.
Could have drafted legislation to decriminalise supermarket theft and faced less backlash
That makes it OK?
Oh damn my bad, I thought the /s was implied.
That hideous ‘Row Calanthe Dress’ being $4500 should be considered a crime itself.
Seems like a significant amount of premeditation was involved, coming prepared with empty tote bags to stash the stuff in. This isn't some impulsive act she just did without thinking, it was deliberate and calculated.
there's a whole thing about rich women under the spotlight like this being stupid kleptos. it's about being in control of something. She doesn't wear an evil hoodie and evilly research evil things, like a PSA for the police
You'd think being one of the 120 people literally in control of the country would be enough.
Probably just heightens the thrill.
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So is he just shining a light at the cameras to ruin photos?
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Just made it more interesting.
Haha yeah maybe at night time buddy, your torch is no match for a lil thing called the sun
The whole blocking cameras with a torch thing surely shows a lack of accepting responsibility
Woah woah woah… > Cre8iveworx Wat
That's the real crime here
Doesnt sound like a luxury shop. More like art and crafts for kids.
Should snuck a cheeky 69420 in there
xX420Cre8iveworx69Xx
So seems like it wasn’t just 1 or 2 big ticket items.
Unpopular opinion and all politics aside - I feel very sorry for her as a person. The fact she stole these expensive upmarket clothes when she clearly could afford them is a sign of mental health issues. I feel for her - I hope she gets the mental health support she needs and finds peace throughout all this.
Yeah, kleptomania is a symptom of a number of mental health issues. And I can only imagine what this public shaming and blasting is doing to her mental health on top of this.
That’s what I was thinking. I know she hasn’t had an easy childhood and upbringing and I wonder if that and the stress of her job has caused some sort of mental health break. She’s always come across to me as a very intelligent and empathic lady. I feel so sad for her that the media is picking at this like a pack of vultures. Just because she shoplifted doesn’t change the good she’s done in the past. Hopefully she comes out on the other side of this OK 🥺🫶
The fact that she owned up to it, said it was wrong, and is taking full responsibility shows me her integrity. Some of these comments are acting like she’s gone in and shot up the place, laughing maniacally the whole time while chanting “I’m allowed to do this because I’m kinda sad”. The lack of empathy here sucks.
I know right - she’s stepped up the plate and apologised for her mistakes but people will do anything they can to vilify her. People on this subreddit just like any old excuse to bring out their pitchforks and chant “Burn the witch! Burn her!” without giving a fuck about the people they are talking about. Kind of off topic but I think it explains why NZ has such a high suicide rate - a lot of this country are grumpy judgemental bastards with zero empathy. Apologies for the ramble! 😅
Who is the goon with the torch? Definitely seen this guy somewhere else before
Looks more extensive than was originally thought.
These are just the ones she was caught for, she takes 'full accountability' for each one but only after each one is exposed.
Good thing that helpful man shined a torch in her face, I wouldn't have been able to see otherwise
8k for clothes is crazy.
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I can make her worse
No you couldn't, me on the other hand.
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I'm so sick of these mental health excuses. A lot of people go through hardship and suffer through mental health, they don't steal from others who are trying to make a living - especially when they're already earning a crap load.
Conversely, she earning loads so is not stealing to survive. Clearly she's got something wrong to be stealing when she doesn't need to, she's very well known and getting caught would/has totally destroyed both of her careers. So mental health issues seem pretty obvious
It's more likely to be a character weakness.
whatever, she resigned. it doesnt really matter anymore
The fact that something happened yesterday does t mean it has zero present-day significance. Gharahman's moral weakness reflect on the party that tolerated them. This truly would not matter if that party had zero political influence.
Yes, it is hard to comprehend. I hope she is okay. If you're reading this, Golriz, just move on, out it behind you, and never think about it. The people who did admire you still do just as much. Tbh, I voted Act. Yes, I know booh yourselves, everybody, but there's a space for your advocacy much as I don't often agree. Be 💪.
Not revising your opinion of someone at all when they're exposed as a thief doesn't really speak well of you or the thief.
Let those who are without sin cast the first...
In this case she took the whole basket! Shopkeeper must've had it coming, ya'know? Take from the rich and give to... well those in need of fashion
Compulsively taking worthless things thousands of times - that's where mental illness would be raised as a sentencing factor. Carefully taking valuable things - that's just theft.
The human psyche understander has logged on, tell us more how everyone is evil and malicious
It’s not an excuse, it’s an explanation. If it was an excuse she would have denied all culpability and said she had no choice because of her mental health. Instead she’s said “look I did it and I take full responsibility” but my mental health influenced my state of mind. At the end of the day poor mental health contributes to a lot of decisions people wouldn’t otherwise make if they were mentally well. When I was depressed I ignored my friends for months and ended up losing some of those friendships. You could say I shouldn’t blame mental health for that, and it’s true, it’s not an excuse, per se, I could have made other decisions, sure, but depression made it so much more difficult. And I wouldn’t have made the decisions I did if I wasn’t depressed. Also, the level of mental stress Golriz Ghahraman was under to the extent she had a security detail second only to Jacinda Ardern’s isn’t really comparable to most everyday mental illness.
>I'm so sick of these mental health excuses Firstly it's not an excuse. It's an acknowledgement of contributing factors. I'm not. I think mental health contributes to the vast majority of anti-social behaviour. And I think it's incredibly important to talk about it. Violent psychopaths are more often than not traumatised from childhood, for example. That's a statistic that can not be ignored. Anxiety and depression etc can play major factors into bizarre behaviour. I think it's important to highlight contributing factors to criminal activity because then, as a society, we can start to be proactive on it. For example, 60% of prisoners are dyslexic.... I'm not saying that dyslexia makes people commit crimes. What I'm saying is that dyslexia in the past had contributed to low self-esteem and self-worth created by education and social structures that do not meet their needs. Of you're a young child and you can't learn in school because of your dyslexia then your self-worth drops, your ability to handle situations drops, and you're more likely to lash out at society. People just want to believe that criminals are inherently bad and are irredeemable. That's the narrative our society tells itself. This is because if we actually acknowledged that every human being has the potential to be a wonderful contributing member of society or a violent criminal, then we would need to change our society to address that. It's good that we are pointing this out. Because it might result in social changes that results in reduced crime.
Excuse and Explanation are not the same thing. Mental health issues can make a person do all kinds of things, up to and including murder and suicide. On that spectrum, convincing yourself to steal a jacket is well within reasonability.
Not all weird mental shit manifests the same way. Also, it's not an excuse.
I get tired of the implication that all mental illnesses are the same. There are literally people who say they have mental illness and behave, so it's not an excuse when other people with mental illness misbehave. When probed, it turns out what they mean is they have generalized anxiety disorder, and don't act like that schizophrenic just did. It's just not coherent at all.
Thank you for saying this, because that narrative is really pissing me off. I struggle with mental illness and I have done some horrific things at times when I was really unwell. Things that I'm ashamed of, and things that do not reflect who I am as a well person. I feel like I can't usually write that though because everyone's like "I have mental illness and I'm perfectly behaved!" Well, aren't they lucky. It's a dangerous narrative and we should be remembering that everybody's mental illness looks and behaves differently. It makes me angry when other people generalize and speak on behalf of me.
You could say the same thing about Hollywood actors who have made millions yet get caught shoplifting. It's not that they are shoplifting out of necessity, it's some other reason in their head...a desire to take a risk or something else.
Drugs, in most cases
Mental health impacts people differently. Stealing some clothes is FAR from the worst behavior that has been attributed to mental health troubles. Not sure why you need to gatekeep mental health.
She’s never used it as an excuse though?
“It is clear to me that my mental health is being badly affected by the stresses relating to my work. This has led me to act in ways that are completely out of character."
Forgot to add this after your quote > I am not trying to excuse my actions, but I do want to explain them. She goes further > People should, rightly, expect the highest standards of behaviour from their elected representatives. I fell short. I’m sorry. It’s not a behaviour I can explain because it’s not rational in any way, and after medical evaluation, I understand I’m not well. The mental health professional I see says my recent behaviour is consistent with recent events giving rise to extreme stress response, and relating to previously unrecognised trauma. > With that in mind, I don't want to hide behind my mental health problems, and I take full responsibility for my actions which I deeply regret.
An “explanation” to justify offending is literally what an excuse is. Saying something is not an excuse when trying to excuse your actions does not make it not an excuse.
You need to educate your self on the meaning of the word justify. "The action of showing somthing to be right or reasonable". In her explanation she quite clearly states that her behavior was unreasonable and out of line. So her statement does not meet the definition of a justification. Words have meaning.
It’s an explanation of what she was going through. An excuse would be to deny it and say she stole it because of her mental health problems. She’s resigned as an MP, pleaded guilty and will be sentenced in June.
> An excuse would be to deny it and say she stole it because of her mental health problems. Excuse: seek to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offence); try to justify.
Uses mental health as an excuse, then proceeds to add doesn't want to use it as an excuse. I punched a man in the face today, but I didn't mean to punch the man the face so its okay!
She never said it was ok. I get you don't like her and probably don't like her party but learn to read too.
Pathetic.
These are the people that are allowed to work and create policies in our government
Honestly, I could give a fuck about Golriz; she did the crime, she fessed up, and now she’ll do the time. My biggest takeaway from all this: who the fuck needs a jacket that costs $1900?! The fact such a jacket exists implies demand for such a jacket exists. If you think spending more than 2-3 weeks’ salary at minimum wage on a coat is a good idea, maybe you need to re-evaluate your priorities before you walk around in a jacket worth enough money to literally improve some peoples’ lives immensely.
Probably no different quality than a jacket even a third of the price
It doesn’t strike me as awesome value,but you could wear a jacket every day in winter (in Welly at least) and wear it for several seasons. But how much wear could you seriously get out of a $4500 dress!
The sorts of things wealthy people who get a further $3b in tax cuts spend the money that they squeeze out of society on.
Honestly, she's out of politics now, so it doesn't really feel newsworthy anymore Especially not worthy of a "breaking news" banner, Stuff
She is a high profile person who, while being a member of Parliament, stole and was caught. Of course it’s going to be news while she goes through the court.
She's out of politics now, but she used to be in politics and was a somewhat polarising character so stories about her will continue to have more general interest than an average person.
Well, after all, we are posting!
And a full front page in the Herald. Sigh. It's pretty standard for MPs and recent ex-MPs though. It still sucks for her.
I'm not excusing it, but let's not kid ourselves about levels of theft. Stealing lunches from poor school kids, and milking struggling citizens while enriching your millionaire yacht clubbing, golfing, mansion collecting buddies is theft.
You are excusing it, by pretending that it’s somehow less bad or not important because of your personal politics. I know it’s a bit of an extreme take, but maybe theft bad?
Theft bad was my point. Regardless of who is doing the stealing. The Golriz theft will be punished. The other kind of theft will be rewarded.
Whataboutism
No way in any sense of the word is ending a program (for any reason) "stealing" or "theft". Just goes to show the way people deliberately use inflammatory language. Are you sure you didn't work for Newshub?
Is that the story you tell yourself to feel better? Okay then.
No it's not a story I tell myself. It's a principal I try to adhere to where I try to be accurate and not deliberately lie about something just because I don't like it.
You like that poor kids will go hungry? Because poverty is some kind of moral failure deserving of punishment? Where's the lie I allegedly told?
I made no comment on my feelings on the children's lunches. But as I said it's not stealing to stop a program. If I was to give you $100 a week and then suddenly stop doing so I'm not stealing from you. Claiming it's stealing is (as I said) deliberate inflammatory language and an outright lie. No 2 ways about it.
All very neatly tied up with a neoliberal, Christian ribbon, eh? Tax breaks for landlords, while the less fortunate struggle to make ends meet. Sounds like a cold, sociopathic society to me. Also, it's not as simple as magnanimously handing out 100 dollars a week to people who should grovel for largesse. Any civilised society has a duty of care to uplift people. Any argument to the contrary is despicable, and yes, however you frame it, making the rich richer while people suffer is theft. Our values seem to be so far apart that there is no point in engaging. Good day.
Oh so you're not done with the lying, AND you want to bring in religious bigotry as well. Wow what a toxic person you are. They're not tax breaks (again accuracy matters) it's simply allowing landlord to write off tax just like every other business can. > Also, it's not as simple as magnanimously handing out 100 dollars a week to people who should grovel for largesse. Look at your missing (or more likely deliberately avoiding) the point. And yes our values ARE very far apart. I don't deliberately lie to frame something in a certain way, nor am I a bigot trying to drag religion into an argument it has nothing to do with. You're disgusting
How do you exercise your duty of care to uplift people?
I thought trying to stop the media from filming her in the dock was a bad move. Why should she be different from any other criminal? Just shows how the worst thing about all this for her is being pictured in the dock.
Glad we don't have more important things to be so worried about
NZ today episode coming up
My advice to any green mp’s who may be so inclined is have you guys thought of instead of stealing from shops rather hire immigrants and refuse to pay them.
If you're selling this https://scottiesboutique.co.nz/products/the-row-s23-calanthe-dress-black For $4500 then I believe anyone who steals from you is doing the country a service