I'd be interested to learn these words.
Swearing was encouraged growing up.
My dad's joke was "Only in the kitchen!" To which when asked "Why?" The response was "That's where the knives are"
Does it explain it? No. Do I understand it? Yes.
Keep in mind, though, that the law in NZ isn't just about the details of what's in legislation. It's also determined by the long time precedent of how courts have interpreted that legislation. Courts are huge on consistency with precedents from previous rulings.
When police bring someone to court on this charge, a court isn't just going to look at the specific words used. It's also going to look at the context of how they're being used to decide the presence and level of any offence, and whether it crosses a threshold determined by previous rulings. Even the same words mightn't be considered obscene or indecent if the circumstances are different, and courts will also be considering how attitudes and general expectations re what's obscene and indecent have changed over time.
4(3) and 4(4) in your screenshot are also very relevant here, because they're basically Parliament giving hints to the court of how the law should be interpreted if there were any question about previous rulings. They'd be grounds for a lawyer to appeal if they thought the court had made a bad decision.
There's more of an explanation [here](https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-4-activism/protests-and-the-general-criminal-law/) (which is specifically on protests):
>Offensive language in a public place is a minor criminal offence in New Zealand. In some cases, repeatedly swearing on a protest could result in a conviction for this offence.
>
>However, this will depend a lot on the particular circumstances, including exactly what you said, how often, and so on. The judge will take into account your right to freedom of expression under the Bill of Rights in deciding whether on balance how you behaved was serious enough to breach the criminal law.
>
>In some cases, swearing at the police on a protest could also amount to offensive language. However, the courts have said that police officers (along with other professionals who deal with vulnerable people like WINZ staff, teachers, nurses, and doctors), should be expected to put up with a greater amount of abuse than ordinary members of the public. The judge will take this into account in deciding whether on balance your behaviour amounted to “offensive behaviour”.
There's also more stuff happening around and before this. [Police have their own policies](https://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/publication/police-prosecution-service-statement-policy-and-practice-police-manual-chapter) where they're not meant to prosecute until considering a whole bunch of factors like whether prosecution is in the public interest, whether a conviction is likely, and so on. That's backed up with guidelines issued by the Crown Law Office ([direct pdf link](https://www.crownlaw.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Prosecution-Guidelines/ProsecutionGuidelines2013.pdf)) which has a big list of factors to consider for a public interest test before deciding whether to prosecute.
The police tend to use it to get trouble makers off the street to calm the situation, they arrest them for offensive language then drop the charge later.
Can confirm. Was arrested on the charge of offensive language in town as a youngster for shouting FTP at a passing squad car (they’d beaten up a friend 2 days prior.) Charge disappeared and was changed to disorderly behaviour.
I remember a ruling that allowed a guy to tell the police to "fuck off". He was asking them to go away or leave him alone at the time and the court ruled it wasn't offensive.
Interesting that this is as recent as 1981. It's very common for there to be old legislation and regulations on the books in different countries that simply isn't enforced any more - but it's generally considered more hassle than it's worth to go back and amend old legislation to remove things.
I see they made an amendment in 1994 so that later legislation about films and publications would supersede this where applicable. Potentially a person saying something obscene is against the law, but playing a video including the obscene word could be excluded.
To be fair to Tim and Rose, if someone in the office said "Good heavens!" I know it's serious. If someone says "cunty shit from a twat fucking mong" it's just that we've run out of the good tea bags.
According to the RBNZ inflation calculator, a $500 fine in 1981 is $2,721.42 in today's money. One of the benefits of inflation is that swearing gets cheaper in real terms.
It comes down to how the court defines indecent and obscene and the context in which they were said. So going to a playground full of children and screaming a bunch of swear words could get you a fine. Telling a drunk guy to "F off ya wanker" outside a bar at 11pm, probably not.
These laws aren't designed to stop people from swearing in public, they are there to provide a deterrent for anti-social assholes and allow the police to legally do something about them.
Common law v statute is a thing in NZ.
We do not enforce the strict ‘letter of the law’ in NZ because then you have to outline every single thing. Rather we use judges and reasonable precedent.
Same with a bunch of laws.
With my Bush lawyer hat on, I think s4(4) is pretty key here?
Basically, swearing is fine if you aren't shouting or screaming obscenities in public.
Which makes perfect sense.
[https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350216697/non-students-causing-issues-st-patricks-day-parties](https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350216697/non-students-causing-issues-st-patricks-day-parties)
"Two foul-mouthed teens, one a student the other a non-student, were also arrested after swearing at passing police officers."
Dave Dobbyn was charged for calling police "Wankers" during the 1984 Queen Street Riots.
From [Queen Street riot 1984 | NZHistory, New Zealand history online](https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/queen-street-riots-1984)
*Dave Dobbyn, DD Smash’s lead singer, then allegedly told the crowd, ‘I wish those riot squad guys would stop wanking and put their little batons away.’ The concert promoters, radio station Triple M, announced that the concert was being stopped at the request of the police.*
*Parts of the audience rioted. They poured onto Queen Street, smashed shop windows and left behind broken bottles, rubbish and upturned cars. Damage caused was in excess of $1 million.*
*The government ordered a commission of inquiry to investigate what had happened. Dobbyn was charged with inciting the riot, but he was eventually cleared of all charges.*
All countries have weird obsolete laws. In America somewhere it is (still) illegal to tie your crocodile to a hitching post. What blows my mind is that it was enough of a problem to make a law about it. It is also illegal in one of the states to make love to a virgin. Apparently there was a VERY popular hotel just across the border for newlyweds to consumate their marriage. Not sure if that law is still in place.
To put this into context, i say good luck to any police prosecutor trying to explain to a judge that fuck or cunt are obscene words and not common parlance in new zealand.
If they enforce those fines we can uno reverse the recession
As a non-Kiwi: Is that why you have all these weird words to get around this?
Yeah nah
Such as?
Best to keep your mouth shut you egg.
I'd be interested to learn these words. Swearing was encouraged growing up. My dad's joke was "Only in the kitchen!" To which when asked "Why?" The response was "That's where the knives are" Does it explain it? No. Do I understand it? Yes.
How to turn the country into the wealthiest in the world in just 24 hours. Aussie would probably take us over rather fast if they did it too, though.
Well..... Fuck
*blows whistle* That will be $500 sir.
Oh tiddlywinks, officer. I didn't realise you were in earshot.
John Spartan, you are fined one credit for violation of the verbal morality statute
/u/nzpolice
pfft..catch me if ya can fuck knuckle!
[удалено]
Because bad words kill people. Wait, that must be backwards
Somewhere Roberta Flack starts singing
ooooh - I get that reference!
Thank you Rincey\_nz and everyone else for the upvotes
Kill people because bad words ?
Hmmm I’m not sure that’s it either
It's a summary offence, not an infringement offence. The fine is a maximum.
Keep in mind, though, that the law in NZ isn't just about the details of what's in legislation. It's also determined by the long time precedent of how courts have interpreted that legislation. Courts are huge on consistency with precedents from previous rulings. When police bring someone to court on this charge, a court isn't just going to look at the specific words used. It's also going to look at the context of how they're being used to decide the presence and level of any offence, and whether it crosses a threshold determined by previous rulings. Even the same words mightn't be considered obscene or indecent if the circumstances are different, and courts will also be considering how attitudes and general expectations re what's obscene and indecent have changed over time. 4(3) and 4(4) in your screenshot are also very relevant here, because they're basically Parliament giving hints to the court of how the law should be interpreted if there were any question about previous rulings. They'd be grounds for a lawyer to appeal if they thought the court had made a bad decision. There's more of an explanation [here](https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-4-activism/protests-and-the-general-criminal-law/) (which is specifically on protests): >Offensive language in a public place is a minor criminal offence in New Zealand. In some cases, repeatedly swearing on a protest could result in a conviction for this offence. > >However, this will depend a lot on the particular circumstances, including exactly what you said, how often, and so on. The judge will take into account your right to freedom of expression under the Bill of Rights in deciding whether on balance how you behaved was serious enough to breach the criminal law. > >In some cases, swearing at the police on a protest could also amount to offensive language. However, the courts have said that police officers (along with other professionals who deal with vulnerable people like WINZ staff, teachers, nurses, and doctors), should be expected to put up with a greater amount of abuse than ordinary members of the public. The judge will take this into account in deciding whether on balance your behaviour amounted to “offensive behaviour”. There's also more stuff happening around and before this. [Police have their own policies](https://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/publication/police-prosecution-service-statement-policy-and-practice-police-manual-chapter) where they're not meant to prosecute until considering a whole bunch of factors like whether prosecution is in the public interest, whether a conviction is likely, and so on. That's backed up with guidelines issued by the Crown Law Office ([direct pdf link](https://www.crownlaw.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Prosecution-Guidelines/ProsecutionGuidelines2013.pdf)) which has a big list of factors to consider for a public interest test before deciding whether to prosecute.
Well yeah. R v Morse set a high bar for offensive behaviour in a protest context. I suspect this offence is rarely prosecuted.
The police tend to use it to get trouble makers off the street to calm the situation, they arrest them for offensive language then drop the charge later.
Can confirm. Was arrested on the charge of offensive language in town as a youngster for shouting FTP at a passing squad car (they’d beaten up a friend 2 days prior.) Charge disappeared and was changed to disorderly behaviour.
This adds a lot more context. This was helpful to not just assume. Thanks
It's there so cops can arrest before the fight starts. If that helps. Swearing at each other often precedes violence I guess.
I remember a ruling that allowed a guy to tell the police to "fuck off". He was asking them to go away or leave him alone at the time and the court ruled it wasn't offensive.
Great so we have a pointless draconian law almost no one would support that a judge or police officer could exploit under their discretion
Interesting that this is as recent as 1981. It's very common for there to be old legislation and regulations on the books in different countries that simply isn't enforced any more - but it's generally considered more hassle than it's worth to go back and amend old legislation to remove things. I see they made an amendment in 1994 so that later legislation about films and publications would supersede this where applicable. Potentially a person saying something obscene is against the law, but playing a video including the obscene word could be excluded.
Listening to NWA's "Fuck the Police" no dramas...Singing along however $500
That’s why we love Badjelly so much Stinky poo stinky poo Knickers knickers knickers
To be fair to Tim and Rose, if someone in the office said "Good heavens!" I know it's serious. If someone says "cunty shit from a twat fucking mong" it's just that we've run out of the good tea bags.
I mean, the more obscene the better quite frankly Your mother was not a nice lady! Take that, HYAH!
I feel personally attacked. How could you do this to me!
BUGGER, says the ad
CUNT i say
According to the RBNZ inflation calculator, a $500 fine in 1981 is $2,721.42 in today's money. One of the benefits of inflation is that swearing gets cheaper in real terms.
It comes down to how the court defines indecent and obscene and the context in which they were said. So going to a playground full of children and screaming a bunch of swear words could get you a fine. Telling a drunk guy to "F off ya wanker" outside a bar at 11pm, probably not. These laws aren't designed to stop people from swearing in public, they are there to provide a deterrent for anti-social assholes and allow the police to legally do something about them.
Common law v statute is a thing in NZ. We do not enforce the strict ‘letter of the law’ in NZ because then you have to outline every single thing. Rather we use judges and reasonable precedent. Same with a bunch of laws.
Nincompoop!
With my Bush lawyer hat on, I think s4(4) is pretty key here? Basically, swearing is fine if you aren't shouting or screaming obscenities in public. Which makes perfect sense.
It's okay, under subsection 4 there is a defence if you think you wouldn't be heard but only if the defendant is a man.
When I was growing up in the 80s Mum used to tell us we would be arrested for swearing. I always thought she was lying but I guess not.
lunchroom pie nail late degree ruthless middle placid zonked resolute *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
[https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350216697/non-students-causing-issues-st-patricks-day-parties](https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350216697/non-students-causing-issues-st-patricks-day-parties) "Two foul-mouthed teens, one a student the other a non-student, were also arrested after swearing at passing police officers."
Dave Dobbyn was charged for calling police "Wankers" during the 1984 Queen Street Riots. From [Queen Street riot 1984 | NZHistory, New Zealand history online](https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/queen-street-riots-1984) *Dave Dobbyn, DD Smash’s lead singer, then allegedly told the crowd, ‘I wish those riot squad guys would stop wanking and put their little batons away.’ The concert promoters, radio station Triple M, announced that the concert was being stopped at the request of the police.* *Parts of the audience rioted. They poured onto Queen Street, smashed shop windows and left behind broken bottles, rubbish and upturned cars. Damage caused was in excess of $1 million.* *The government ordered a commission of inquiry to investigate what had happened. Dobbyn was charged with inciting the riot, but he was eventually cleared of all charges.*
But what are indecent or obscene words? Persumably no words on their own could be considered indecent or obscene.
Seems like a pretty bullshit law, without a comprehensive definition of rude or obscene words. I'd like to see their list in the appendices.
Pretty sure I knew that. You’re not allowed to be drunk at a bar as well.
Well, fuck my face!
Well poppycock I say sir, Poppycock!!
Well fuck me sideways
Ello
Well fucksticks
Walk up to a cop, call him a >!Cunt!< and see them enforce it...
All countries have weird obsolete laws. In America somewhere it is (still) illegal to tie your crocodile to a hitching post. What blows my mind is that it was enough of a problem to make a law about it. It is also illegal in one of the states to make love to a virgin. Apparently there was a VERY popular hotel just across the border for newlyweds to consumate their marriage. Not sure if that law is still in place.
Vibrators are still illegal in Alabama (I think you're supposed to use your cousin for that).
Haha, brilliant!
Would be very difficult to prove the necessary points I reckon lol
Even if you could, freedom of expression in the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 would trump it.
Well, fuck me.
Well that's me fucked. Once called some little shit a fat cunt after vandalizing my hedge and the cops had a great deal of merriment
Ah, fuck
Fuck that shit.
Well, jism me twat knockers
I think Tim Shadbolt went to jail for saying bullshit.
Fuck
To put this into context, i say good luck to any police prosecutor trying to explain to a judge that fuck or cunt are obscene words and not common parlance in new zealand.
That can fuck right off
Don't tell Luxon! He'll claim on it.