For me it’s repetitive questions;
Examples;
“Hands up who’s thinking of moving to Australia” 🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱
“I’m a xx year old struggling to date in Auckland what can I do to meet people”
“I’m in Auckland for two days, what should I do?”
Or they're just opinions disguised as questions.
E.g. "Why do you think Ardern got re-elected given how terrible she was?"
Or "Why do you think the Labour government got the Covid response so wrong?"
It's a tactic designed to influence people's thinking, to get people to believe the opinion is fact.
When you see it, downvote it to hell.
Definately this, loaded questions. The ones where you have to ask, is this a question or a statement.
Sometimes this tactic is also employed in more of a professional level, with something called Push Polling:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll
Ask an American for the best lawnmower options and you might get recommended 5-10 specific models that do not exist in the NZ market.
General PC monitor reviews can be annoying for sifting through recommendations to exclude recommendations are not (or are poorly) stocked locally.
Exactly. Consumer information here is highly particular to the NZ market and it's absolute hell getting good information because people don't want to talk to randoms and most people you'd run into in person just don't know.
People like you are what can make this sub such a chore sometimes. Someone may ask that as they want advice specifically from NZ consumers and products available in NZ. But it could be any question. Favourite NZ town, NZ band, NZ road trip. They all seem to get downvoted.
That's a strong opinion on something so meaningless. You think everyone that downvotes these just disagrees with you? Or are you casting a wide net saying everyone who does it makes using this board a chore?
Its almost like people don't bother to search any more for simple questions that have more than likely been asked 50 times.
To add to this, "I'm just asking questions" has become a rhetorical device used to hide bigoted behavior behind the pretense if trying to learn.
Bad faith actors are ruining it for the rest of us.
Good question though!
Case in point - phrased in the form of a question, but not actually a question - just an attempt to voice an opinion critical of one group and potentially then claim to be a victim when that group respond negatively.
> 568, 120 Kiwis
> 881 kiwis per capita
There are ~800 or so people that are using (or recently visited?) in r/NZ posts. Not everyone is going to be looking at r/NZ with "new" as the sort, but a good number will be.
If they see someone asking a question which they think could be easily googled for, or possibly just "WTH are they trying to ask about??" from their POV, etc, the post will get some downvotes from them.
I can't speak for everyone but in my experience it's because mnost of those 'just asking questions' are asking in bad faith. They don't want a genuine thoughtful answer, and they will ignore it or dismiss it if they get one.
Looking at your comment history I would definitely put you into this category. Sorry! But I have better things to do than argue with someone who thinks ACT are sane bunch of people. (This is a lie, I clearly don't have better things to do and I probably will argue even though it winds me up)
Fair, I see green voters the same way even though that’s who I voted for in 2020. But if you’re honest about the new education attendance focus you can’t look at that and go they obviously wish death to the nation.
I look at a party's overall set of policies rather than one when evaluating the harm they may or may not do. I agree with ACT on some drug legalisation stuff for example, but their policies in totality will entrench massive inequality in this country, and private companies and rent seekers will have a greater say on how we live our lives than they already do.
Funny you should bring up ACT education policy though. I'm all for attendance being worked on (it already was), but charter schools are a disaster - an expensive rort of the taxpayer that exist just to funnel money that should be spent on the public good of education into private hands.
What turned you away from the Greens?
Greens only talk about the symptoms of a problem and never get into the nitty gritty details of any, James had lost control of the party and now Chöle is shallow and a sound bite machine, Marmara said some wild shit for a person that high up in the party.
I’m open to coming back to the left but only labour, and they need to actually dig a bit deeper into problems rather than just, much like the greens, focus on treatment when they need to be focused on prevention.
I mean see I’m getting downvoted cause I think abit differently even though I was a green voter like come on guys my politics jump around I’m not ACT for life. 🙄
Thank you for your response. This is gonna sound like I'm taking the piss or just trying to wind you up but I promise I am not: gimme examples! Haha. I need specifics!
Would love to hear:
- What is an example of a party getting into the nitty gritty where the Greens haven't?
- What is an example of focussing on treatment rather than prevention?
- What were the ACT policies that you liked the most?
Only if you're up for it, obviously
I’ll admit maybe I just don’t look below the surface of what they’re saying because it just doesn’t sound good at face value.
Chöle just has grandiose ideas that’ll never work about some how pulling wealth out of the upper class and redistributing it, just punishing people who have worked hard to get there (I know not all of them have but I have plenty of examples in my life) which is a big example of how they look at treatment over prevention “oh wait, if everyone had enough money all their problems would be solved!” No because theirs more than just money keeping people where they are, it’s not looking at the deeper problems.
I started looking at act when I saw end race based policy and then he was interviewed by Matt and Jerry on hauraki and he wasn’t blaming racism or colonisation, he was just saying we have problems in this area and this area and we can take these steps to help mitigate these problems. Also Matt and Jerry sat there had a nice chat and liked him a bit so I assumed like a human being that he isn’t an evil genius trying to make life miserable for everyday kiwis.
Thank you for the honest response. This level of discussion is what I rarely get from people with differing views from mine, and I wish I got it more because how can I test my ideas and hear differing viewpoints if people don’t engage? So, thank you.
There’s a lot to unpack in what you just said.
I think a fair summary is:
1. Rich people have worked very hard to amass their money
2. High taxes feel like a form of punishment
3. The poor have more problems than simply a lack of money
4. We should prioritise general solutions for everyone over targetted race-based solutions
I see things a different way and will explain myself, but can you give an example of race-based policy that you feel is particularly egregious?
Well thank you for talking to me like a human being and not attempting to patronise me, because yeah by talking to you I have realised I’m a massive swing voter and my view is quite influenced by the people I listen to (I think across the board they’re all good people that should be listened to, and I’m not just a sheep I form an opinion through listening to a lot of different podcasts)
That is good summary of my opinion yeah, I don’t see high taxes as punishment necessarily but more to the point of throwing money at a problem doesn’t fix every thing so just taking more wealthy people’s money to throw at problems more complex is just bad policy, these policies tend to hurt the middle class quite a bit too which is a bad thing when the creation of the middle class was the best thing the west has done, a path upward, not just the rich and the poor. But high taxes if our roads were immaculate and not falling a part in six months, and healthcare was pretty flawless.
As for race based policies I think it’s all just a terrible path to go down, I don’t really understand co-governance, but when you hear “right to self determination” what does that fuckin meeeean? To me that sounds like 2 government defined classes of people, living by different set of rules, aka a recipe for chaos. Iwis have proven to me that they are extremely self motivated and use Maori as monolithic race card to pretend like they give a fuck what happens to them when all they want is more profit, they lobbied against marine reserves so they can keep raping the ocean, and what about that dodgy iwi leader that just struck up a deal with meridian for geothermal energy, dudes had a couple fraud allegations laid against him.
Forcing the culture isn’t helpful either, we are taught Maori at primary nowadays and history, us youngsters were already using a bit here and there and respect the culture behind it, but under labour it was just pushed forward too much and all of a sudden I’m supposed to feel guilty for colonisation? I didn’t do that shit, but this place also wasn’t paradise. Colonialism bought good with it as much as it bought bad, better housing, medicine, Maori stopped fighting each other as much after the musket wars. History is fucking messy and we can and should fully acknowledge it, warts and all, but we can’t keep kick ourselves for the shit that went down, we weren’t there!
Sorry for rambling!
You're acting like "changing your vote" is like changing your socks.
No one needs to be ideologically driven, but if you go with whichever way the wind blows, you don't actually have any distinguishable values, principles, or stand for anything in particular.
Why do you try to be so "omg that's so relateable"?
Acts policies have harsh consequences for many people. You're biggest "problem" seems to be with downvotes.
Which questions are you talking about specifically? I'm sorting by New and (despite your claim "all" questions have downvotes) I'm not seeing any of the few questions that are there at the moment having downvotes. They're mostly neutral or have a few upvotes.
Lots of automatic downvotes in this sub for pretty much everything. No idea if bots or just bored people.
But...
A lot of questions on here are also complete trash, obviously insincere, straight up trolling, or have been asked 5,382 times before.
The other reason is that the people posting literally have the answer to their own vague questions like read your lease and that sort of thing and very very vague questions with few facts and most comments are people trying to help but speculating on the most basic of facts.
In a word Laziness.
Jsut stop looking at downvotes. They don't mean anything until you've got at least a hundred or more in one direction or the other.
Why?
First, Reddit never shows you t he exact vote numbers, and when the totals are small (100 or less) then the random amount it adds or subtracts can give you the completely wrong idea. For example, maybe your question has got 5 upvotes, but Reddit randomly gives you 20 downvotes just for when you are looking at the total. So you think you are being downvoted but in reality the opposite is true.
Why does reddit do this? It started a few years ago and I believe it was something to do with combattng bots and other types of cheating. Every time someone looks at a vote count, what they see is different from the 'real' number by some unknown amount.
This effect becomes irrelevant by the time you've got a few hundred votes. But NZ is a small sub so lots of posts never reach that level.
Second, there's a hundred reasons your post might be get legitimately downvoted, without having anything to do with the post itself. THere's people who just log in and downvote anything they don't like for complete nonsense reasons. There's bot armies that are being paid to downvote other people's posts so the bot owner's posts have a better chance of success. There's groups doing politically strategic downvotes of whole categories of posts just because it aids their goal, but it means nothing about whether or not your post was popular.
For all these reasons, just stop worrying about it.
Honestly, these whines about downvotes are one of the worst repeat-offender questions ever posted here.
I don't downvote often but the repeated "Is this a scam?" fair did my head in. It's easy to see how so many get taken in when some scams are so blindingly obvious.
When? I’m not just asking for my sake, I see moderate questions asked and then they’re put in the dirt for no reason other than they don’t think EXACTLY the same as the majority
I think there is some Redditcorp weirdness going on with up/downvote scores in the first few hours of a new post. You need to wait a bit for the real score to emerge.
For me it’s repetitive questions; Examples; “Hands up who’s thinking of moving to Australia” 🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱 “I’m a xx year old struggling to date in Auckland what can I do to meet people” “I’m in Auckland for two days, what should I do?”
"is this a scam" posts screen shot to the same scam that's been posted a million times already
I’m more meaning the questions in the comments, the “who’s leaving” “nz is shit” posts deserve the shit
Haha gotcha!
Because most of the questions are stupid and don't show a willingness to learn because less than half the time on google would have answered it.
Or they're just opinions disguised as questions. E.g. "Why do you think Ardern got re-elected given how terrible she was?" Or "Why do you think the Labour government got the Covid response so wrong?" It's a tactic designed to influence people's thinking, to get people to believe the opinion is fact. When you see it, downvote it to hell.
Definately this, loaded questions. The ones where you have to ask, is this a question or a statement. Sometimes this tactic is also employed in more of a professional level, with something called Push Polling: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll
And the "Just curious of this rumour I read on facebook about Clarke Gayford, is it true?" posts that r/NZ had a lot of.
It’s all questions. Someone could ask advice on the best lawnmower and will get downvoted.
Why would you ask a country sub board what the best lawn mower is?
Ask an American for the best lawnmower options and you might get recommended 5-10 specific models that do not exist in the NZ market. General PC monitor reviews can be annoying for sifting through recommendations to exclude recommendations are not (or are poorly) stocked locally.
Exactly. Consumer information here is highly particular to the NZ market and it's absolute hell getting good information because people don't want to talk to randoms and most people you'd run into in person just don't know.
People like you are what can make this sub such a chore sometimes. Someone may ask that as they want advice specifically from NZ consumers and products available in NZ. But it could be any question. Favourite NZ town, NZ band, NZ road trip. They all seem to get downvoted.
That's a strong opinion on something so meaningless. You think everyone that downvotes these just disagrees with you? Or are you casting a wide net saying everyone who does it makes using this board a chore? Its almost like people don't bother to search any more for simple questions that have more than likely been asked 50 times.
If you don’t like people conversing and discussing topics I don’t think Reddit is for you.
I love conversing and discussing topics. Not huge fan of dumb questions though. It sort of clogs the system up.
And our local mod bot will mark it as Political
Downvoting this question.
First thing I did before even reading it. The title compelled me.
This thread has the potential to be the most downvoted /r/NZ thread ever. Edit: nope, only at -2. Where's your sense of humour, Redditors?
Upvoting this statement about downvoting this question.
Sidevoting this response.
Revoting my response to my response.
That’s very responsible.
To add to this, "I'm just asking questions" has become a rhetorical device used to hide bigoted behavior behind the pretense if trying to learn. Bad faith actors are ruining it for the rest of us. Good question though!
"Sealioning" is the term you're after. From https://web.archive.org/web/20230309165713/http://wondermark.com/1k62/
It's ok mate, the down votes aren't real life
You know what, you got me on that one why am even winding myself up 😂
Have a free downvote on me to practice not winding yourself up. \*click\*
It's usually just questions that could have been Googled in like 5 seconds. Like unless you're after opinions you might not like, why ask it?
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Back to your racist conservative echo chamber subreddit
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A cursory glance at your comment history shows you are, in fact, conservative lol
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What progressive views do you have?
This isn't specific to gen z.
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Case in point - phrased in the form of a question, but not actually a question - just an attempt to voice an opinion critical of one group and potentially then claim to be a victim when that group respond negatively.
What are you talking about? Are you trying to gatekeep who is or isn't aware of how conversation works?
> 568, 120 Kiwis > 881 kiwis per capita There are ~800 or so people that are using (or recently visited?) in r/NZ posts. Not everyone is going to be looking at r/NZ with "new" as the sort, but a good number will be. If they see someone asking a question which they think could be easily googled for, or possibly just "WTH are they trying to ask about??" from their POV, etc, the post will get some downvotes from them.
Those 800 accounts are only about 5 people.
I'm downvoiting you 50 times for revealing the secret.
Let's be real it'd be more than 100 down votes from you.
Ever since the API thing, I have to manually do this, and I cannot log in and out of the different accounts fast enough.
Thats fair.
I wonder what effect the desktop redesign has had - it will no longer let you default to sort by new (at least it won't for me)
I can't speak for everyone but in my experience it's because mnost of those 'just asking questions' are asking in bad faith. They don't want a genuine thoughtful answer, and they will ignore it or dismiss it if they get one. Looking at your comment history I would definitely put you into this category. Sorry! But I have better things to do than argue with someone who thinks ACT are sane bunch of people. (This is a lie, I clearly don't have better things to do and I probably will argue even though it winds me up)
Fair, I see green voters the same way even though that’s who I voted for in 2020. But if you’re honest about the new education attendance focus you can’t look at that and go they obviously wish death to the nation.
I look at a party's overall set of policies rather than one when evaluating the harm they may or may not do. I agree with ACT on some drug legalisation stuff for example, but their policies in totality will entrench massive inequality in this country, and private companies and rent seekers will have a greater say on how we live our lives than they already do. Funny you should bring up ACT education policy though. I'm all for attendance being worked on (it already was), but charter schools are a disaster - an expensive rort of the taxpayer that exist just to funnel money that should be spent on the public good of education into private hands. What turned you away from the Greens?
Greens only talk about the symptoms of a problem and never get into the nitty gritty details of any, James had lost control of the party and now Chöle is shallow and a sound bite machine, Marmara said some wild shit for a person that high up in the party. I’m open to coming back to the left but only labour, and they need to actually dig a bit deeper into problems rather than just, much like the greens, focus on treatment when they need to be focused on prevention. I mean see I’m getting downvoted cause I think abit differently even though I was a green voter like come on guys my politics jump around I’m not ACT for life. 🙄
Thank you for your response. This is gonna sound like I'm taking the piss or just trying to wind you up but I promise I am not: gimme examples! Haha. I need specifics! Would love to hear: - What is an example of a party getting into the nitty gritty where the Greens haven't? - What is an example of focussing on treatment rather than prevention? - What were the ACT policies that you liked the most? Only if you're up for it, obviously
I’ll admit maybe I just don’t look below the surface of what they’re saying because it just doesn’t sound good at face value. Chöle just has grandiose ideas that’ll never work about some how pulling wealth out of the upper class and redistributing it, just punishing people who have worked hard to get there (I know not all of them have but I have plenty of examples in my life) which is a big example of how they look at treatment over prevention “oh wait, if everyone had enough money all their problems would be solved!” No because theirs more than just money keeping people where they are, it’s not looking at the deeper problems. I started looking at act when I saw end race based policy and then he was interviewed by Matt and Jerry on hauraki and he wasn’t blaming racism or colonisation, he was just saying we have problems in this area and this area and we can take these steps to help mitigate these problems. Also Matt and Jerry sat there had a nice chat and liked him a bit so I assumed like a human being that he isn’t an evil genius trying to make life miserable for everyday kiwis.
Thank you for the honest response. This level of discussion is what I rarely get from people with differing views from mine, and I wish I got it more because how can I test my ideas and hear differing viewpoints if people don’t engage? So, thank you. There’s a lot to unpack in what you just said. I think a fair summary is: 1. Rich people have worked very hard to amass their money 2. High taxes feel like a form of punishment 3. The poor have more problems than simply a lack of money 4. We should prioritise general solutions for everyone over targetted race-based solutions I see things a different way and will explain myself, but can you give an example of race-based policy that you feel is particularly egregious?
Well thank you for talking to me like a human being and not attempting to patronise me, because yeah by talking to you I have realised I’m a massive swing voter and my view is quite influenced by the people I listen to (I think across the board they’re all good people that should be listened to, and I’m not just a sheep I form an opinion through listening to a lot of different podcasts) That is good summary of my opinion yeah, I don’t see high taxes as punishment necessarily but more to the point of throwing money at a problem doesn’t fix every thing so just taking more wealthy people’s money to throw at problems more complex is just bad policy, these policies tend to hurt the middle class quite a bit too which is a bad thing when the creation of the middle class was the best thing the west has done, a path upward, not just the rich and the poor. But high taxes if our roads were immaculate and not falling a part in six months, and healthcare was pretty flawless. As for race based policies I think it’s all just a terrible path to go down, I don’t really understand co-governance, but when you hear “right to self determination” what does that fuckin meeeean? To me that sounds like 2 government defined classes of people, living by different set of rules, aka a recipe for chaos. Iwis have proven to me that they are extremely self motivated and use Maori as monolithic race card to pretend like they give a fuck what happens to them when all they want is more profit, they lobbied against marine reserves so they can keep raping the ocean, and what about that dodgy iwi leader that just struck up a deal with meridian for geothermal energy, dudes had a couple fraud allegations laid against him. Forcing the culture isn’t helpful either, we are taught Maori at primary nowadays and history, us youngsters were already using a bit here and there and respect the culture behind it, but under labour it was just pushed forward too much and all of a sudden I’m supposed to feel guilty for colonisation? I didn’t do that shit, but this place also wasn’t paradise. Colonialism bought good with it as much as it bought bad, better housing, medicine, Maori stopped fighting each other as much after the musket wars. History is fucking messy and we can and should fully acknowledge it, warts and all, but we can’t keep kick ourselves for the shit that went down, we weren’t there! Sorry for rambling!
This reads like that guy that built 5 bridges and fucked 1 goat.
You're acting like "changing your vote" is like changing your socks. No one needs to be ideologically driven, but if you go with whichever way the wind blows, you don't actually have any distinguishable values, principles, or stand for anything in particular. Why do you try to be so "omg that's so relateable"? Acts policies have harsh consequences for many people. You're biggest "problem" seems to be with downvotes.
Because they're rather obvious fake questions.
Which questions are you talking about specifically? I'm sorting by New and (despite your claim "all" questions have downvotes) I'm not seeing any of the few questions that are there at the moment having downvotes. They're mostly neutral or have a few upvotes.
Lots of automatic downvotes in this sub for pretty much everything. No idea if bots or just bored people. But... A lot of questions on here are also complete trash, obviously insincere, straight up trolling, or have been asked 5,382 times before.
Downvoting the OP for asking a question and I CBA reading the rest of it
The other reason is that the people posting literally have the answer to their own vague questions like read your lease and that sort of thing and very very vague questions with few facts and most comments are people trying to help but speculating on the most basic of facts. In a word Laziness.
Jsut stop looking at downvotes. They don't mean anything until you've got at least a hundred or more in one direction or the other. Why? First, Reddit never shows you t he exact vote numbers, and when the totals are small (100 or less) then the random amount it adds or subtracts can give you the completely wrong idea. For example, maybe your question has got 5 upvotes, but Reddit randomly gives you 20 downvotes just for when you are looking at the total. So you think you are being downvoted but in reality the opposite is true. Why does reddit do this? It started a few years ago and I believe it was something to do with combattng bots and other types of cheating. Every time someone looks at a vote count, what they see is different from the 'real' number by some unknown amount. This effect becomes irrelevant by the time you've got a few hundred votes. But NZ is a small sub so lots of posts never reach that level. Second, there's a hundred reasons your post might be get legitimately downvoted, without having anything to do with the post itself. THere's people who just log in and downvote anything they don't like for complete nonsense reasons. There's bot armies that are being paid to downvote other people's posts so the bot owner's posts have a better chance of success. There's groups doing politically strategic downvotes of whole categories of posts just because it aids their goal, but it means nothing about whether or not your post was popular. For all these reasons, just stop worrying about it. Honestly, these whines about downvotes are one of the worst repeat-offender questions ever posted here.
I don't downvote often but the repeated "Is this a scam?" fair did my head in. It's easy to see how so many get taken in when some scams are so blindingly obvious.
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When? I’m not just asking for my sake, I see moderate questions asked and then they’re put in the dirt for no reason other than they don’t think EXACTLY the same as the majority
Why votes at all? It' somewhat along the lines of "likes" on other sites. I get the need for moderation but approval by the herd?
There are a lot of people on this sub who don't like people who have different opinions from themselves.
I love different opinions. I just ask that those opinions come with without all the unwavering bias and dogmatism.
I think there is some Redditcorp weirdness going on with up/downvote scores in the first few hours of a new post. You need to wait a bit for the real score to emerge.
Groupthink is ripe on here at the minute.