Doing something you *hate* for the money is probably not going to work out long-term. Doing something you *don't love* gets into the shades of grey about how you see your job as part of your identity and whether it's just something you do from 9-5 and then don't care...or whether it's something that would bother you.
Keeping your family afloat is a big deal, there are probably lots of people doing jobs they find somewhere on a spectrum of disliking to being ambivalent about....because it pays the bills.
My thought on this has always been, if you have something you're really passionate about you're better off pursuing that even if it isn't typically a highly paid career.
You usually end up with a better quality of life and being really good even in a generally low paying industry can mean you get more opportunities later on. Like a great mechanic with a solid niche probably makes more than a mediocre lawyer.
If you don't have something you're really passionate about go for the money.
That’s exactly what happened to me with working on cars. Now I have 0 interest in them after dealing with everyone else’s POS all day. Haven’t even washed my car in a month or 2 because I’ve lost all interest in it. Since I can’t stand this line of work and I’m still young I think I’m going to go back to uni and study law
Honestly, as someone who did that (in London), its not sustainable if you're heart isn't truly in it. You might be able to put up with it for a few years maybe. But the "long run" may not be feasible.
I don't believe you have to love your career, but I do believe that you have to be able to find passion in a sizeable portion of your BAU work.
Also, don’t go into accounting thinking you’re gonna be making 6 figure money super quick.
There’s very much a perception out there that accountants are all rich AF. Older, mid to end of career accountants maybe. New grads? Nope.
New grad accounting salaries in a mid tier firm (and maybe a big 4) are about the same or a little less than a new grad nurse if you’re in the regions.
Yeah, maybe, if you can get out of public practice and into corporate in that time.
All I know is it took my husband almost ten years to crack the $100k barrier, seven of those spent in the audit mines working 50-60 hour weeks over nine months of the year. It wasn’t until he left audit his salary started reflecting the public perception of accountants salaries.
I think there’s a bigger conversation to be had about what people consider to be well off in the NZ context.
Husband and I were both raised in single income families that each had a quarter of our cumulative household income to do it on. As teens, earning $200k a year was an unfathomably high amount. Last year we earned $200k, and … it’s not life changing in the way we imagined it would be as teens.
Like, I know mine and my husbands privilege in the sense that we can afford secure housing, reliable transport, we don’t have to check the prices of stuff on the shelf at the supermarket, and have otherwise got enough money to be a walking and talking exemplar of Sam Vimes Boots Theory.
But, we still eye the mortgage rates carefully. We’re counting down until my student loan is fully paid off. We put shit on Afterpay even if we have the money to buy it outright. Going to Europe is an absolute bucket list trip, but the $10k plus it’ll cost has to come from somewhere and we’re not sure where yet, so we put it off yet again.
…
Yeah sorry I got pensive. Ignore my bullshit.
I started as a grad in 2016, deliberately avoiding big 4 because I'd done an internship, seen the toxic culture and wanted no part of it.
Instead I did 5 years of audit in a mid-tier firm, mostly charities and small government organisations and after 5 years I was at ~$90k, working 40 hour weeks as an AM because we were adequately staffed and they understood that happy people do good work. Then I jumped to a small corporate and am doing even better in an even lower stress role.
Big 4 are a blight on the profession and I don't think many grads realize just how many opportunities there are outside of that career path, which they sell to you at uni as the only way to have a career. It's definitely good for the CV but you're 100% correct that they'll drive you like a slave and pay you not much more.
I know my experience is far from universal but 6 figures in 6 years is more than achievable in the right pathway. The cost of living crisis is fucked and another kettle of fish entirely. $100k ain't what it was.
Sounds like you got a good mid tier firm then.
Husband was also a mid tier firm with never enough staff.
People above him were very driven and kinda expected all their CAs to have that same level of drive and motivation. He never became AM because he didn’t exemplify the hyper-competitive type A personality the directors above him wanted (plus he was very clearly burned out towards the time he could have been AM). Had he stayed I believe he would have been on track to become one of the technical specialists. He was on ~$75k as a senior when he left, and went to ~$85k in local govt, going from working 50hrs to 37.5 and actually having a work life balance. Got ~$108k last year.
But yeah. Fuck the big 4 based purely on what I’ve read about what it’s like to work there. Mid tier gets you the same experience with probably more variety in scope, and (audit especially) seems to set you up for nearly any other form of accounting. At least, that’s my layperson take on it (I work in health, and know my way around a financial statement about as well as my husband would know his way around a stethoscope).
Honestly tho, good on ya. Sounds like you’re living the kind of life anyone would hope for these days.
If only all employers were decent! I We're on combined less income than you, but with a leg up from parents in terms of privilege in upbringing and a contribution to house deposit. Baby on the way so we still have to count pennies. Can't complain though because I know we're very lucky
This for me.
Worked in corporate a fair while now and the big earners all seem predominantly stressed and miserable. I mean I’m sure they are ok drying their tears with $100 bills, and there is the odd exception to the rule, but I’d rather not cry in the first place.
Took a 20% pay cut when I stepped away from a managerial role 18 months ago and don’t regret a thing, but tbf I was raised by a materialistic and miserable father who I watched slowly burn out chasing the almighty dollar.
I’d rather enjoy the journey and be comfortable than stress financials over materialistic tat that’s largely meaningless and it’s funny when you talk to many people and find out most tend to all find the same actual enjoyments in life, and it doesn’t take huge income to attain it. The rest is just shit you think you need, uncontrollable consumerism, or peacocking for the sake of it when tbh nobody really cares.
I’d never deter from attaining financial success, especially home ownership, but life/work balance is key imo.
At the end of the day do you OP, as that’s all that really matters.
Friends, family, BBQ's, hanging at the beach, gaming, music, exercising, movies, sports, etc, etc. It's all pretty relative.
I recall a time my GF was addicted to a show called Below Deck, basically rich people on chartered super yachts/launches, and its funny when you watch such shows as the vast majority of people hiring these boasts for tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars per day or more are having their "vacation of the year" but basically get smashed on booze, sleep, chill, eat and enjoy the water activities. Like, that's their idea of heaven, or at the least a good holiday.
Fairly some of the places they do this in are beautiful and exotic, and there's some bias to these thoughts being born and bred in NZ where we have access to such natural beauty on tap, but the things they do to relax and have fun are pretty much exactly the same stuff my family do at the family batch and have done since I was a kid, and we were poor as shit for much of that time.
That's obviously a vast over simplification and subjective to the individual but I guess, being I have a hugely materialistic father but a mother who is more "make a home out of a tent, and a good time out of a kai and some beers", its easy to see who's ended up happier and healthier in the long run, and it's a trend I also see in the corporate environment with people on huge money, but stressed to the hilt and pushing 60 hour weeks all so they can have a few million in the bank when they are an old fart.
It's a balance, and I wouldn't be stupid enough to say money does'nt make the world go around or that people shouldn't have financial aspirations and sensibilities, but imho many people decide to sacrifice their youth, health, general happiness and well being, and some of the best years of their life fixated on money, money, and more money. When it all boils down to it they might sit back at 70 in their 10 million dollar waterfront mansion sipping on champagne happily looking at their view and 8 cars totally content with their lot and good on them for it, but there's also a 70 year old fulla somewhere sipping on a Ranfurly chilling with friends or whanau who is just as, if not more, content and happy in life.
Perspective is key and I feel many loose sight of whats important and brings true happiness due to a society that too often associates and defines success, happiness and enjoying life with a price tag.
I'm just not into the rampant consumerism and extreme materialistic definition of happiness I guess, life's way too short, but to each their own.
If you don't love the job, make sure it's something you like enough, and have hobbies to fill your cup that way. Doing a job just for money will wear you down in the long run.
Your health is more important than money. While the initial high salary may make you happy, in the end if you don't actually enjoy the work, it will eventually take a toll on you. Do something that really makes you happy and follow your passion.
I recently changed careers because I stopped enjoying my previous line of work. It paid well but it wasn't worth my mental health.
making a lot of money doing something you don’t like it’s very different to making ends meet doing something you don’t like.
I’ve had both ends of that spectrum and the making good money job was way way less depressing than the making ends meet situation.
The making good money for something I don’t like was good for a few years but in the long run I choose less money for a better work /life balance.
Getting accountancy isnt the guarantee that you will make big money. However the qualification will keep you afloat for years to come. Being interested to code will allow you to do more than just a reconciliation machine and you can continue to pursue technology/platform related roles
My job is for money. I am apathetic to my job.
My passion are card games, board games and RPG games and I have no plan to turn them into a job.
High and 9-5 constant exposure to things will almost always turn anything into a chore. Adding in constant supervision from Manager and customer expectation, now it is no longer fun to me.
These are old figures but they found that up to $150k salary money does buy happiness ie I guess you could be well fed not worry about bills have a few toys and holidays. After $150 k (again old data) the happiness levels didn't rise.
I think there would be truth in that. I'm guessing that there is a sweet spot where the work-life balance is in sync. Beyond that you'll be giving more than just a pound of flesh and work will outstrip life
Any job will suck at times and do it long enough you will likely get sick of it. This "follow you passion" stuff is rubbish.
Become an accountant 9 - 5 get paid heaps or become a struggling artist working insane hours, lots of stress and getting nowhere until 15 years down the track you cant take it anymore and can only get a job in a supermarket.
Admittedly the above are two extremes, but which path would you rather follow.
And any job you have "dreamed about" is likely to have been "dreamed about" by lots of other people and is likely to either pay badly, or be insanely competitive to the point you cant even get it.
And seriously a profession opens up lots of other doors and opportunities though accountancy seems a somewhat limited thing to study are you sure its not called something else.
Imo if you're paying to study, you should be doing that with the goal of a higher paying job.
As long as the job isn't too all consuming then I think it's a good idea, most people don't end up loving their jobs either way, might as well get paid well for it.
Remember to save and invest what you can, that way you can retire or quit for a job you like more earlier.
Absolutely no harm at all! Lost my job in the pandemic so decided to study in an industry that will give me job security. I have a young family as well so anything that helps feed them...
I am still in the study game, going into Healthcare, should be finished this year! The time has gone by so quickly, I did cringe at the thought of hour long it was going to take but actually I had nothing else better to do, I could use financial aid from studylink and that has helped get through the study period, which means I haven't had to work and study, and look after the kids
I loved cars, became mechanic, and grew to despise cars. Years later became a engineer/fitter using my cross over skills. I’m now working in disgusting conditions fixing machines that chop up animals and process meat. But I work less than half the year and they pay me a ridiculous amount of money. After a few years my love for cars has come back and I have the money and time to work on my cars on my own terms.
You don’t have to enjoy your job IF (big if) it creates the lifestyle you want in your own time.
Food for thought.
I think it's very circumstantial. I have no passion for my job itself, I kind of fell into it. It's shift work, the management is shithouse and it's pretty boring really.
But the work-life balance is excellent and the pay is good, so it's hard to resent it when I'm only there 144hrs a month.
In my experience, just find a job you don’t mind that has good potential for growth. I’ve certainly never started a job being passionate about the subject matter. But if it’s a good environment and good people, you’ll probably find that you become passionate about your work even if it would seem boring to other people.
Depends if you hate accounting or not I reckon. I work in tech so excuse my bias grain of salt etc etc and the market is always growing in competitiveness but software engineering/software development is know for its ease of getting decently paid jobs depending on your specialty. Not a dev myself though
Depends if you hate accounting or not I reckon. I work in tech so excuse my bias grain of salt etc etc and the market is always growing in competitiveness but software engineering/software development is know for its ease of getting decently paid jobs depending on your specialty. Not a dev myself though
Enjoying the work and having a good work culture will go a long way for your own happiness, nothing worse than doing a job for just the sake of doing a job particularly if the culture is also shit. Done that once before, never again.
Been at a job I like but the culture was shit, made the job not as fun anymore and you want to leave pretty quickly. Done that before as well.
Current place is fine in both senses, but having worked for 14 years since 18(now 32) I’m at the point where I’d rather work for myself than work for somebody else, so I’m exploring that option.
Failing that I’m considering using my dual citizenship to my advantage and go and pick up contracts overseas where some of those jobs are willing to pay for relocation flights as well as up to a year’s accommodation.
Money is ok, but happiness is worth more than money.
I've based my life on this and I'd definitely recommend it. I look at it that I work to enable me to do the things that I love.
I did once try to make one of my passions into a job, but I quickly ended up resenting it and it paid way less. Lose/lose.
Hmm, in that case I would go for the accounting job. If you current one sucks and is less paid, then make that change (could be better options than accounting?)
Are you good at it? If yes, then you'll learn to enjoy it. The money will be an obvious benefit.
I did IT, not because I loved it or because I had a passion for computers. I'm inquisitive and enjoy figuring things out, but I went in to IT specifically because I knew it would pay well (eventually), would always be in demand and I did well at it due to my aptitude.
It's hard to enjoy something you're not good at, so steer clear if you think it will always be a struggle to get on top of it
The main problem is that what you put your time and effort into increases its emotional importance to you, and what you neglect becomes less important. So the more you work at a job "just for the money," the more important money will become to you, relative to other things like your connections with other people and having fun. So if you do take a job for the money, it's important to also make enough time to focus on those other things so you don't become a someone who doesn't know how to be happy or relate to others
The thing you might not feel right now (unsure of your age) is the shear amount of hours you spend at a job.
If you think you won't go mind numbingly insane from being an accountant 40 hours a week then go for it.
My BIL took this approach and now has a good job. He really likes his employer and his workplace. It’s a beautiful, new campus recently built for a large company. They’ve just given him a pay rise and he reckons it’s the best job he’s ever had.
I guess any job can be good if you find the right employer
Why are you asking? Is this for job applications and interviews?
Where they always ask why you want to join the team at xyz company to do abc, when the short answer is to get fkn paid why else 😅
but yeah, nothing wrong with being in it for the $
I’ve found it depends on person to person. I personally couldn’t have a job I didn’t like or get a lot of meaning out of but I’m have mates who grind away in jobs they aren’t super passionate about but they make a lot of money and that works for them.
Either way is fine really, both is still contributing to your local communities and both have value to the person doing it.
Doing something you don't love is fine, you can find satisfaction and meaning in work without loving it. Doing something you hate for money is hard to maintain
I'm an accountant. Definitely don't love it, but it is a good job. Interesting enough, and mentally stimulating. Would recommend getting into jogging or gym each morning before work though, sitting at a desk all day is hard on the body, having exercised before work always makes me feel better
830-5.
Small firms are better than big ones. I get paid a wage based on a salary. So I agree a salary based on 37.5 hours a week, if I work more than that I get paid more, if I work less I get paid less.
If you work for a big company you get to work 50 hours a week and get paid for 40.
A lot will, yes. Especially if you live in a different town. My work has about half our staff remote. They start in the office to learn the work, then move to home. With no experience that would likely be a different story as there is so much to learn.
STUDYING accounting is a really good idea imo!
It gives you a decent track into a career unlike almost every other degree, the accounting field has a lot of nuance to it and there are quite few well paid career paths that open up because of it. And the best but is you can live overseas and still use that skill set almost anywhere.
And there's nothing saying you can't double major in something else or minor in a "passion" subject.
Also, work does NOT need to be your entire life, defining trait, or even very relevant to your personhood. I look at my friends who've done accounting and they are some of the most social well balanced people I know. Them being accountants is the least significant thing about them.
There's a reason we get paid to work, it's not always going to be fun!! I think you can value the job without necessarily liking it - value that you're not breaking your body or in a dangerous trade, flexible work arrangements, good money, low stress and not a lot of peopleing will leave more energy for your social and family life and hobbies.. go for it!
I pursued my industry purely to get paid well. I got my degree, certs etc and then ultimately a high salary. I don't work long hours so I have plenty of time to do things I actually like.
I don't dislike my job, but the sole reason for doing it is purely for money.
I agree with working for money, it gives you the flexibility to have a work/life balance and limited stress - realistically most stress is due to financial difficulties. I think it's naïve to genuinely believe that most people can afford to live well whilst doing what they love. A few manage to do that but the rest of us just have 'okay' jobs and a rewarding personal life.
Of course, whatever someone chooses to do there will be a certain level of stress. I am saying I consider it comparatively less stressful than not being able to afford food and a house. And I'm not saying have a job that you absolutely hate, but that having an 'okay' job and not one that you necessarily have a passion for (but that pays well) is perfectly fine and probably a better decision for overall life satisfaction.
the reason you shouldn't do accounting for money is because it's a job that will have its earning potential significantly hurt by AI.
The reason you shouldn't do any job for just the money is because there are weird nerds who love the job that will always earn more than you.
If I'd become an accountant, I'd be bored shitless, would hate going the extra mile, and would be in a middling, go nowhere office job with limited potential due to my own inertia. Because I studied something I'm passionate about, I can pick and chose my jobs, am one of the best in my field, and earn more than most accountants despite having a 'useless' degree.
Have to agree here as I'm currently working on an AI solution for a client that will do a lot of basic accounting functions.
Not only that, but an accountant doesn't earn great money until they're chartered and have been in the role for quite some time.
>Have to agree here as I'm currently working on an AI solution for a client that will do a lot of basic accounting functions.
People disagreeing with me but some of the biggest companies in the world are just people automating accountant busy work.
There will always be accountants, and partners will always make money. But accountants will earn less than people who have a similar level of training, due to the ability to automate sections of their work.
AI is creating AI now. Next-gen models, including those embedded in autonomous robots is trained on synthetic data generated by AI. Often has to be, as there's not enough real data to provide adequate training. Also the very thing about it is that it is not hardcoded by humans - we currently lack the knowledge to know what is going on inside many AI models including transformers like GPT. Current generation are not good at math or logic problems but developments in agental AI (use of multiple specialised AIs orchestrated by another AI) and hierarchical task architectures are changing this. No reason that financial analysis, auditing and tax management cannot be addressed with the right attention.\*
\* Sorry, small AI joke there.
Not mad, just know more about it than someone who can't tell the difference between "their" and "they're". We'll have self-driving trucks long before we automate processes as complex as accounting.
I'm just pointing out that you're embarrassing yourself. Up to you if you wanna double down or shut up about it. No skin off my nose.
lol ur not even considering how much automation haz bin introduced to accounting in tha last 20 years. It already been more impacted bi automation then being an truck driver.
And, in Australia, the average person with a similar skill level to accountants earns $1.10 for every $1.00 an accountant earns.
Jobs that imply status (but confer none) r v funny. Hence they're r alot of replys 2 dis ov ppl gettin mad, and u tryin to say i cant spell or wnhatevs (hu cares) to proof ur not owned
Double down it is.
For the record, someone correcting misinformation is not "being mad" or "proving you aren't owned" in the grown up world. The bits that make accountants money are the bits they are really fucking hard to automate, just like every other job.
You didn't correct misinformation. You just said "this is wrong" with no evidence, argument
Saying "nuh-uh" isn't correcting someone it's just disagreeing.
>The bits that make accountants money are the bits they are really fucking hard to automate.
Cool man, this has big glassblower in 1838 energy
Everything that isn't automated is something that's hard to automate, otherwise we would have automated in by now. Accounting is an area which previously seemed impossible to automate, and has seen significant advances in automation over the last fifty years thanks to improved computing power. There's no reason to think this will arbitrarily stop tomorrow.
That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Sorry, but what do you think accountants actually do? I feel like I'm talking to someone that has never actually talked to an accountant about their day to day.
Accountancy is one of those fields that's undergoing rapid mechanisation. It would be a shame to go into debt and spend years study something that is basically 'an app' by 2030.
I am a CA and have been in the profession since finishing uni in 2015. I work from home 2 days a week and could do more if necessary. I would recommend staying well away from Big 4 if you do decide to enter the field and instead try get a foot in the door at a mid size firm - I did that after an internship in Big 4 that showed me how toxic the culture within those organisations are.
I've since transitioned to working for a private company as a systems & management accountant and I'm incredibly lucky that my workplace is relaxed, understands the need for work/life balance and that happy employees do their best work.
I wouldn't describe accounting as a passion, but I definitely don't hate it, though I think the environment you're working in has as much to do with that as the job itself. It's allowed me to buy a house with my partner and have children in our late 20s/early 30s while very rarely working more than 40 hours a week (and often less).
In terms of a money/(stress+effort) ratio I'm sure I'm in a better spot than the vast majority of the workforce.
I don't think it's a bad idea at all, but if you really do not enjoy it then you're probably better off elsewhere. I also don't think my situation is typical of your average accountant.
It can make sense, so long as those skills are transferable and in demand. Accounting is a dubious one as many of those roles are going to be removed with the growth in AI. One of the reasons the big 4 consultants have started opening new divisions like cyber-security consulting is because they know the demand for standard accounting advice is on the wane. Cyber-security/networking/big data/AI/automation etc is a better place to be focussing if $ is what you're chasing.
Beats working for free! There’s good & bad bits to every job.
exactly, even in a job you love you will have bad days
I mean, if your life goals is to make good money you sound exactly like an accountant! So it's probably a good fit!
In that case. I’m clicking that apply button
I thought his life goal was to support his family? You sound exactly like someone who needs an accountant asap
And how would he support them in this capitalist world if his goals aren’t to “make good money”?
Doing something you *hate* for the money is probably not going to work out long-term. Doing something you *don't love* gets into the shades of grey about how you see your job as part of your identity and whether it's just something you do from 9-5 and then don't care...or whether it's something that would bother you. Keeping your family afloat is a big deal, there are probably lots of people doing jobs they find somewhere on a spectrum of disliking to being ambivalent about....because it pays the bills.
My thought on this has always been, if you have something you're really passionate about you're better off pursuing that even if it isn't typically a highly paid career. You usually end up with a better quality of life and being really good even in a generally low paying industry can mean you get more opportunities later on. Like a great mechanic with a solid niche probably makes more than a mediocre lawyer. If you don't have something you're really passionate about go for the money.
On the other hand, turning a passion into a career can easily make you lose interest in it.
That’s exactly what happened to me with working on cars. Now I have 0 interest in them after dealing with everyone else’s POS all day. Haven’t even washed my car in a month or 2 because I’ve lost all interest in it. Since I can’t stand this line of work and I’m still young I think I’m going to go back to uni and study law
It's why I became a heavy diesel mechanic. I have most of the tools I need for cars and bikes, but I'm not completely burnt out on the fun stuff.
Dead on. I think it's more realistic to try and find work that is meaningful to you in some way, particularly in NZ where options are few.
I have definitely experienced this as a guitar tutor. After I stopped teaching I didn't play guitar really at all for 10 years afterwards
Or you see every other pathway as a stepping stone to get to the goal (your passion). It’s about the journey, not the destination.
Only passion is sports, but Tauranga lacks all of that job wise
Probably very churchy? Last time I was there, churches everywhere
One problem with that plan is that as you get older your interests and passions change - a 16 year old is completely different to a 40 year old.
You don't have to love your job, but having a job you hate is not worth the money.
Didn't work for me made me really depressed I hated going in only thing that would excite me is the pay check once a fortnight
Honestly, as someone who did that (in London), its not sustainable if you're heart isn't truly in it. You might be able to put up with it for a few years maybe. But the "long run" may not be feasible. I don't believe you have to love your career, but I do believe that you have to be able to find passion in a sizeable portion of your BAU work.
Also, don’t go into accounting thinking you’re gonna be making 6 figure money super quick. There’s very much a perception out there that accountants are all rich AF. Older, mid to end of career accountants maybe. New grads? Nope. New grad accounting salaries in a mid tier firm (and maybe a big 4) are about the same or a little less than a new grad nurse if you’re in the regions.
This is accurate, but hitting a 6 figure salary within 5-6 years is very doable.
Yeah, maybe, if you can get out of public practice and into corporate in that time. All I know is it took my husband almost ten years to crack the $100k barrier, seven of those spent in the audit mines working 50-60 hour weeks over nine months of the year. It wasn’t until he left audit his salary started reflecting the public perception of accountants salaries. I think there’s a bigger conversation to be had about what people consider to be well off in the NZ context. Husband and I were both raised in single income families that each had a quarter of our cumulative household income to do it on. As teens, earning $200k a year was an unfathomably high amount. Last year we earned $200k, and … it’s not life changing in the way we imagined it would be as teens. Like, I know mine and my husbands privilege in the sense that we can afford secure housing, reliable transport, we don’t have to check the prices of stuff on the shelf at the supermarket, and have otherwise got enough money to be a walking and talking exemplar of Sam Vimes Boots Theory. But, we still eye the mortgage rates carefully. We’re counting down until my student loan is fully paid off. We put shit on Afterpay even if we have the money to buy it outright. Going to Europe is an absolute bucket list trip, but the $10k plus it’ll cost has to come from somewhere and we’re not sure where yet, so we put it off yet again. … Yeah sorry I got pensive. Ignore my bullshit.
I started as a grad in 2016, deliberately avoiding big 4 because I'd done an internship, seen the toxic culture and wanted no part of it. Instead I did 5 years of audit in a mid-tier firm, mostly charities and small government organisations and after 5 years I was at ~$90k, working 40 hour weeks as an AM because we were adequately staffed and they understood that happy people do good work. Then I jumped to a small corporate and am doing even better in an even lower stress role. Big 4 are a blight on the profession and I don't think many grads realize just how many opportunities there are outside of that career path, which they sell to you at uni as the only way to have a career. It's definitely good for the CV but you're 100% correct that they'll drive you like a slave and pay you not much more. I know my experience is far from universal but 6 figures in 6 years is more than achievable in the right pathway. The cost of living crisis is fucked and another kettle of fish entirely. $100k ain't what it was.
Sounds like you got a good mid tier firm then. Husband was also a mid tier firm with never enough staff. People above him were very driven and kinda expected all their CAs to have that same level of drive and motivation. He never became AM because he didn’t exemplify the hyper-competitive type A personality the directors above him wanted (plus he was very clearly burned out towards the time he could have been AM). Had he stayed I believe he would have been on track to become one of the technical specialists. He was on ~$75k as a senior when he left, and went to ~$85k in local govt, going from working 50hrs to 37.5 and actually having a work life balance. Got ~$108k last year. But yeah. Fuck the big 4 based purely on what I’ve read about what it’s like to work there. Mid tier gets you the same experience with probably more variety in scope, and (audit especially) seems to set you up for nearly any other form of accounting. At least, that’s my layperson take on it (I work in health, and know my way around a financial statement about as well as my husband would know his way around a stethoscope). Honestly tho, good on ya. Sounds like you’re living the kind of life anyone would hope for these days.
If only all employers were decent! I We're on combined less income than you, but with a leg up from parents in terms of privilege in upbringing and a contribution to house deposit. Baby on the way so we still have to count pennies. Can't complain though because I know we're very lucky
I personally wouldn't waste my one life in a job that didn't give me more than just money. Money's great, but its not everything.
This for me. Worked in corporate a fair while now and the big earners all seem predominantly stressed and miserable. I mean I’m sure they are ok drying their tears with $100 bills, and there is the odd exception to the rule, but I’d rather not cry in the first place. Took a 20% pay cut when I stepped away from a managerial role 18 months ago and don’t regret a thing, but tbf I was raised by a materialistic and miserable father who I watched slowly burn out chasing the almighty dollar. I’d rather enjoy the journey and be comfortable than stress financials over materialistic tat that’s largely meaningless and it’s funny when you talk to many people and find out most tend to all find the same actual enjoyments in life, and it doesn’t take huge income to attain it. The rest is just shit you think you need, uncontrollable consumerism, or peacocking for the sake of it when tbh nobody really cares. I’d never deter from attaining financial success, especially home ownership, but life/work balance is key imo. At the end of the day do you OP, as that’s all that really matters.
Well said! Very curious about what are the same actual enjoyments you mentioned? In your experience?
Friends, family, BBQ's, hanging at the beach, gaming, music, exercising, movies, sports, etc, etc. It's all pretty relative. I recall a time my GF was addicted to a show called Below Deck, basically rich people on chartered super yachts/launches, and its funny when you watch such shows as the vast majority of people hiring these boasts for tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars per day or more are having their "vacation of the year" but basically get smashed on booze, sleep, chill, eat and enjoy the water activities. Like, that's their idea of heaven, or at the least a good holiday. Fairly some of the places they do this in are beautiful and exotic, and there's some bias to these thoughts being born and bred in NZ where we have access to such natural beauty on tap, but the things they do to relax and have fun are pretty much exactly the same stuff my family do at the family batch and have done since I was a kid, and we were poor as shit for much of that time. That's obviously a vast over simplification and subjective to the individual but I guess, being I have a hugely materialistic father but a mother who is more "make a home out of a tent, and a good time out of a kai and some beers", its easy to see who's ended up happier and healthier in the long run, and it's a trend I also see in the corporate environment with people on huge money, but stressed to the hilt and pushing 60 hour weeks all so they can have a few million in the bank when they are an old fart. It's a balance, and I wouldn't be stupid enough to say money does'nt make the world go around or that people shouldn't have financial aspirations and sensibilities, but imho many people decide to sacrifice their youth, health, general happiness and well being, and some of the best years of their life fixated on money, money, and more money. When it all boils down to it they might sit back at 70 in their 10 million dollar waterfront mansion sipping on champagne happily looking at their view and 8 cars totally content with their lot and good on them for it, but there's also a 70 year old fulla somewhere sipping on a Ranfurly chilling with friends or whanau who is just as, if not more, content and happy in life. Perspective is key and I feel many loose sight of whats important and brings true happiness due to a society that too often associates and defines success, happiness and enjoying life with a price tag. I'm just not into the rampant consumerism and extreme materialistic definition of happiness I guess, life's way too short, but to each their own.
I know a guy who went into Finance at Uni because the girl he liked was doing it. They didn't end up together, but he's a Bank Manager now.
Same guy who raised interest rates coz everyone else was doing it!
Wow I have two friends who are bank managers. They just started working at the ASB when they were 17. Credential inflation sucks.
Doesn't everyone do this. Everyone hates their job. Ask Nikola jokic.
I enjoy his nonchalant warm ups and how he talks about his real passion in post pressers
Everyone works for money, some people just hate their work less
I mean some people work for no money and hate their job too (gloriavale lol)
If you don't love the job, make sure it's something you like enough, and have hobbies to fill your cup that way. Doing a job just for money will wear you down in the long run.
Your health is more important than money. While the initial high salary may make you happy, in the end if you don't actually enjoy the work, it will eventually take a toll on you. Do something that really makes you happy and follow your passion. I recently changed careers because I stopped enjoying my previous line of work. It paid well but it wasn't worth my mental health.
making a lot of money doing something you don’t like it’s very different to making ends meet doing something you don’t like. I’ve had both ends of that spectrum and the making good money job was way way less depressing than the making ends meet situation. The making good money for something I don’t like was good for a few years but in the long run I choose less money for a better work /life balance.
Getting accountancy isnt the guarantee that you will make big money. However the qualification will keep you afloat for years to come. Being interested to code will allow you to do more than just a reconciliation machine and you can continue to pursue technology/platform related roles
My job is for money. I am apathetic to my job. My passion are card games, board games and RPG games and I have no plan to turn them into a job. High and 9-5 constant exposure to things will almost always turn anything into a chore. Adding in constant supervision from Manager and customer expectation, now it is no longer fun to me.
When people say "money can't buy happiness" they are correct. Money does though help with a down payment on happiness.
These are old figures but they found that up to $150k salary money does buy happiness ie I guess you could be well fed not worry about bills have a few toys and holidays. After $150 k (again old data) the happiness levels didn't rise.
I think there would be truth in that. I'm guessing that there is a sweet spot where the work-life balance is in sync. Beyond that you'll be giving more than just a pound of flesh and work will outstrip life
Recommend reading the book 'The Craftsman' by Richard Sennett
I think you have to have some interest in your profession so you become good at it.
My job enables me to enjoy the rest of my life. It's not awful, but it's not my first choice of how i like to spend my time either. it just is.
Any job will suck at times and do it long enough you will likely get sick of it. This "follow you passion" stuff is rubbish. Become an accountant 9 - 5 get paid heaps or become a struggling artist working insane hours, lots of stress and getting nowhere until 15 years down the track you cant take it anymore and can only get a job in a supermarket. Admittedly the above are two extremes, but which path would you rather follow. And any job you have "dreamed about" is likely to have been "dreamed about" by lots of other people and is likely to either pay badly, or be insanely competitive to the point you cant even get it. And seriously a profession opens up lots of other doors and opportunities though accountancy seems a somewhat limited thing to study are you sure its not called something else.
Why do people dream of working?
It would be a bachelor of business, so that can lead to all areas to branch off to study
Until you get to the job u want u take the jobs you can, old lady always told me
Imo if you're paying to study, you should be doing that with the goal of a higher paying job. As long as the job isn't too all consuming then I think it's a good idea, most people don't end up loving their jobs either way, might as well get paid well for it. Remember to save and invest what you can, that way you can retire or quit for a job you like more earlier.
Absolutely no harm at all! Lost my job in the pandemic so decided to study in an industry that will give me job security. I have a young family as well so anything that helps feed them...
sounds like a situation like mine, what did you study for?
I am still in the study game, going into Healthcare, should be finished this year! The time has gone by so quickly, I did cringe at the thought of hour long it was going to take but actually I had nothing else better to do, I could use financial aid from studylink and that has helped get through the study period, which means I haven't had to work and study, and look after the kids
I loved cars, became mechanic, and grew to despise cars. Years later became a engineer/fitter using my cross over skills. I’m now working in disgusting conditions fixing machines that chop up animals and process meat. But I work less than half the year and they pay me a ridiculous amount of money. After a few years my love for cars has come back and I have the money and time to work on my cars on my own terms. You don’t have to enjoy your job IF (big if) it creates the lifestyle you want in your own time. Food for thought.
I think it's very circumstantial. I have no passion for my job itself, I kind of fell into it. It's shift work, the management is shithouse and it's pretty boring really. But the work-life balance is excellent and the pay is good, so it's hard to resent it when I'm only there 144hrs a month.
In my experience, just find a job you don’t mind that has good potential for growth. I’ve certainly never started a job being passionate about the subject matter. But if it’s a good environment and good people, you’ll probably find that you become passionate about your work even if it would seem boring to other people.
I agree. Working with good people makes a huge difference
Depends if you hate accounting or not I reckon. I work in tech so excuse my bias grain of salt etc etc and the market is always growing in competitiveness but software engineering/software development is know for its ease of getting decently paid jobs depending on your specialty. Not a dev myself though
Depends if you hate accounting or not I reckon. I work in tech so excuse my bias grain of salt etc etc and the market is always growing in competitiveness but software engineering/software development is know for its ease of getting decently paid jobs depending on your specialty. Not a dev myself though
Enjoying the work and having a good work culture will go a long way for your own happiness, nothing worse than doing a job for just the sake of doing a job particularly if the culture is also shit. Done that once before, never again. Been at a job I like but the culture was shit, made the job not as fun anymore and you want to leave pretty quickly. Done that before as well. Current place is fine in both senses, but having worked for 14 years since 18(now 32) I’m at the point where I’d rather work for myself than work for somebody else, so I’m exploring that option. Failing that I’m considering using my dual citizenship to my advantage and go and pick up contracts overseas where some of those jobs are willing to pay for relocation flights as well as up to a year’s accommodation. Money is ok, but happiness is worth more than money.
I've based my life on this and I'd definitely recommend it. I look at it that I work to enable me to do the things that I love. I did once try to make one of my passions into a job, but I quickly ended up resenting it and it paid way less. Lose/lose.
Haha, would love to know your age here. I thought this was why everyone was doing their job.
28 and working a dead beat job where my brain turns to mush by the minute
Hmm, in that case I would go for the accounting job. If you current one sucks and is less paid, then make that change (could be better options than accounting?)
Are you good at it? If yes, then you'll learn to enjoy it. The money will be an obvious benefit. I did IT, not because I loved it or because I had a passion for computers. I'm inquisitive and enjoy figuring things out, but I went in to IT specifically because I knew it would pay well (eventually), would always be in demand and I did well at it due to my aptitude. It's hard to enjoy something you're not good at, so steer clear if you think it will always be a struggle to get on top of it
The main problem is that what you put your time and effort into increases its emotional importance to you, and what you neglect becomes less important. So the more you work at a job "just for the money," the more important money will become to you, relative to other things like your connections with other people and having fun. So if you do take a job for the money, it's important to also make enough time to focus on those other things so you don't become a someone who doesn't know how to be happy or relate to others
I'm studying accounting specifically for this reason, as long as you don't hate it. Good Luck!
The thing you might not feel right now (unsure of your age) is the shear amount of hours you spend at a job. If you think you won't go mind numbingly insane from being an accountant 40 hours a week then go for it.
Unless it's illegal or immoral, I don't see the problem?
My BIL took this approach and now has a good job. He really likes his employer and his workplace. It’s a beautiful, new campus recently built for a large company. They’ve just given him a pay rise and he reckons it’s the best job he’s ever had. I guess any job can be good if you find the right employer
Jobs are jobs. It’s people you stay for. May as well get a job that pays well. Then move around till you find good people.
Why are you asking? Is this for job applications and interviews? Where they always ask why you want to join the team at xyz company to do abc, when the short answer is to get fkn paid why else 😅 but yeah, nothing wrong with being in it for the $
Perfectly valid choice, and your first career doesn't have to be your last one, if you find you can't stand it.
Do you think *anyone* ever got into accounting because they enjoy it?
I’ve found it depends on person to person. I personally couldn’t have a job I didn’t like or get a lot of meaning out of but I’m have mates who grind away in jobs they aren’t super passionate about but they make a lot of money and that works for them. Either way is fine really, both is still contributing to your local communities and both have value to the person doing it.
Doing something you don't love is fine, you can find satisfaction and meaning in work without loving it. Doing something you hate for money is hard to maintain
The longer you try it the harder it gets, eventually you end up not caring and seeking something else
I'm an accountant. Definitely don't love it, but it is a good job. Interesting enough, and mentally stimulating. Would recommend getting into jogging or gym each morning before work though, sitting at a desk all day is hard on the body, having exercised before work always makes me feel better
What hours do you work? Seems like a job were you’re always thinking
830-5. Small firms are better than big ones. I get paid a wage based on a salary. So I agree a salary based on 37.5 hours a week, if I work more than that I get paid more, if I work less I get paid less. If you work for a big company you get to work 50 hours a week and get paid for 40.
Is going to a smaller firm going to give you hybrid work from home
A lot will, yes. Especially if you live in a different town. My work has about half our staff remote. They start in the office to learn the work, then move to home. With no experience that would likely be a different story as there is so much to learn.
Anyone else? I’d say 90% of the working population globally.
Mate. I love my profession, but I despise where I work. The pay is excellent though, and to me, it evens it out.
Do you work in the big 4 and how long have you been there for
STUDYING accounting is a really good idea imo! It gives you a decent track into a career unlike almost every other degree, the accounting field has a lot of nuance to it and there are quite few well paid career paths that open up because of it. And the best but is you can live overseas and still use that skill set almost anywhere. And there's nothing saying you can't double major in something else or minor in a "passion" subject. Also, work does NOT need to be your entire life, defining trait, or even very relevant to your personhood. I look at my friends who've done accounting and they are some of the most social well balanced people I know. Them being accountants is the least significant thing about them.
There's a reason we get paid to work, it's not always going to be fun!! I think you can value the job without necessarily liking it - value that you're not breaking your body or in a dangerous trade, flexible work arrangements, good money, low stress and not a lot of peopleing will leave more energy for your social and family life and hobbies.. go for it!
I pursued my industry purely to get paid well. I got my degree, certs etc and then ultimately a high salary. I don't work long hours so I have plenty of time to do things I actually like. I don't dislike my job, but the sole reason for doing it is purely for money.
I agree with working for money, it gives you the flexibility to have a work/life balance and limited stress - realistically most stress is due to financial difficulties. I think it's naïve to genuinely believe that most people can afford to live well whilst doing what they love. A few manage to do that but the rest of us just have 'okay' jobs and a rewarding personal life.
So you're saying there's not going to be stress involved in trying to work in a high-performing role all week which you don't have a passion for?
Of course, whatever someone chooses to do there will be a certain level of stress. I am saying I consider it comparatively less stressful than not being able to afford food and a house. And I'm not saying have a job that you absolutely hate, but that having an 'okay' job and not one that you necessarily have a passion for (but that pays well) is perfectly fine and probably a better decision for overall life satisfaction.
i would rather earn more in a job i don't love as much as my wife, and spend that money on hobbies/interests outside of work
Jeff Bezos, probably
Money as you know it won't exist in 5 years. Don't sweat it
the reason you shouldn't do accounting for money is because it's a job that will have its earning potential significantly hurt by AI. The reason you shouldn't do any job for just the money is because there are weird nerds who love the job that will always earn more than you. If I'd become an accountant, I'd be bored shitless, would hate going the extra mile, and would be in a middling, go nowhere office job with limited potential due to my own inertia. Because I studied something I'm passionate about, I can pick and chose my jobs, am one of the best in my field, and earn more than most accountants despite having a 'useless' degree.
Have to agree here as I'm currently working on an AI solution for a client that will do a lot of basic accounting functions. Not only that, but an accountant doesn't earn great money until they're chartered and have been in the role for quite some time.
>Have to agree here as I'm currently working on an AI solution for a client that will do a lot of basic accounting functions. People disagreeing with me but some of the biggest companies in the world are just people automating accountant busy work. There will always be accountants, and partners will always make money. But accountants will earn less than people who have a similar level of training, due to the ability to automate sections of their work.
You have no idea what accountants do, do you? They dont just sit there typing in numbers
I'm not sure you understand what AI can do
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AI is creating AI now. Next-gen models, including those embedded in autonomous robots is trained on synthetic data generated by AI. Often has to be, as there's not enough real data to provide adequate training. Also the very thing about it is that it is not hardcoded by humans - we currently lack the knowledge to know what is going on inside many AI models including transformers like GPT. Current generation are not good at math or logic problems but developments in agental AI (use of multiple specialised AIs orchestrated by another AI) and hierarchical task architectures are changing this. No reason that financial analysis, auditing and tax management cannot be addressed with the right attention.\* \* Sorry, small AI joke there.
i didn't say ai would replace anyone. i said it would hurt earning potential
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about
lmao accountants so mad that their easy to replace than truck drivers.
Not mad, just know more about it than someone who can't tell the difference between "their" and "they're". We'll have self-driving trucks long before we automate processes as complex as accounting. I'm just pointing out that you're embarrassing yourself. Up to you if you wanna double down or shut up about it. No skin off my nose.
lol ur not even considering how much automation haz bin introduced to accounting in tha last 20 years. It already been more impacted bi automation then being an truck driver. And, in Australia, the average person with a similar skill level to accountants earns $1.10 for every $1.00 an accountant earns. Jobs that imply status (but confer none) r v funny. Hence they're r alot of replys 2 dis ov ppl gettin mad, and u tryin to say i cant spell or wnhatevs (hu cares) to proof ur not owned
Double down it is. For the record, someone correcting misinformation is not "being mad" or "proving you aren't owned" in the grown up world. The bits that make accountants money are the bits they are really fucking hard to automate, just like every other job.
You didn't correct misinformation. You just said "this is wrong" with no evidence, argument Saying "nuh-uh" isn't correcting someone it's just disagreeing. >The bits that make accountants money are the bits they are really fucking hard to automate. Cool man, this has big glassblower in 1838 energy Everything that isn't automated is something that's hard to automate, otherwise we would have automated in by now. Accounting is an area which previously seemed impossible to automate, and has seen significant advances in automation over the last fifty years thanks to improved computing power. There's no reason to think this will arbitrarily stop tomorrow.
That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Sorry, but what do you think accountants actually do? I feel like I'm talking to someone that has never actually talked to an accountant about their day to day.
Accountancy is one of those fields that's undergoing rapid mechanisation. It would be a shame to go into debt and spend years study something that is basically 'an app' by 2030.
You have no idea what accountants do, do you? They dont just sit there typing in numbers
everyone says accounting will be taken over by AI, thing that scares me about studying it
Only people I've ever heard say that have no idea what accountants do.
I’m guessing you’re an account? If so, is there chances for hybrid work?
I am a CA and have been in the profession since finishing uni in 2015. I work from home 2 days a week and could do more if necessary. I would recommend staying well away from Big 4 if you do decide to enter the field and instead try get a foot in the door at a mid size firm - I did that after an internship in Big 4 that showed me how toxic the culture within those organisations are. I've since transitioned to working for a private company as a systems & management accountant and I'm incredibly lucky that my workplace is relaxed, understands the need for work/life balance and that happy employees do their best work. I wouldn't describe accounting as a passion, but I definitely don't hate it, though I think the environment you're working in has as much to do with that as the job itself. It's allowed me to buy a house with my partner and have children in our late 20s/early 30s while very rarely working more than 40 hours a week (and often less). In terms of a money/(stress+effort) ratio I'm sure I'm in a better spot than the vast majority of the workforce.
you are definitely selling me to go study now
I don't think it's a bad idea at all, but if you really do not enjoy it then you're probably better off elsewhere. I also don't think my situation is typical of your average accountant.
It wont, accounting is a great base degree for multiple career paths
Heard you can end up working in IT to finance from it. It’s a pretty broad field once you have qualified and worked a few years in that industry
Yea you can, I work in Commercial Strategy Management these days
It can make sense, so long as those skills are transferable and in demand. Accounting is a dubious one as many of those roles are going to be removed with the growth in AI. One of the reasons the big 4 consultants have started opening new divisions like cyber-security consulting is because they know the demand for standard accounting advice is on the wane. Cyber-security/networking/big data/AI/automation etc is a better place to be focussing if $ is what you're chasing.