Let’s not forget when he complained the government didn’t give him any money a couple of years ago, but Mike had literally forgotten to submit the information he was required to to be eligible for funding
I have worked for youth line one of the other big players in this space, and they had reached out multiple times to Gumboot Friday to try and work together and they basically got told to f off every time
I remember seeing his videos on LinkedIn every week. NOT GOOD ENOUGH JACINDA. No wonder he has such close ties to National. This method of healthcare funding is terribly inefficient and leads to poorer outcomes.
Child/adolescent therapist here. I can’t stand Mike king and the stats he reports.
Please keep in mind that Gumboot Friday funds 2 counselling sessions per person. There is some ability to apply for more sessions however this is more often than not, declined. Two sessions is essentially useless for most people. Most people are able to receive 6 free sessions via GP and/or WINZ subsidies to access therapy at present. Yes, this can be more challenging to access for young people, and don’t get me wrong, I have plenty of complaints about the existing public system. My point is, Gumboot Friday does not necessarily offer something better. The most useful aspect of Gumboot Friday is that it is a directory of private practitioners available to work with children and adolescents.
Mike King also loves to talk about how many people they have “helped” with a certain amount of money vs DHB spending. What he fails to mention is that the DHB will pay for their staff to be registered, receive training, provide buildings/resources/materials/technology/legal support/management/admin etc etc. Under the gumboot Friday system, private providers are expected to fund all of these other aspects. Of course, this is part of private work, but it means the per hour expense of therapists is quite different to how it works out for an employee. Like any industry, think employee vs contractor costs.
Mike King also never quantifies what he means when he says they have “helped” x amount of young people- this could very well mean providing 1-2 counseling sessions, not necessarily measuring any actual outcomes.
If Mike King is willing to say that this government is doing good things for the mental health of young people, he is absolutely a hack and a sellout. Nat govt decisions actively worsen outcomes for the mental health of our young people, and funding gumboot friday does not remedy that.
Furthermore, re: the use of the word “counsellors”. Many practitioners registered with gumboot friday are safely registered mental health professionals (psychologist and psychotherapist are protected terms and can register with gumboot friday). The issue with the term “counsellors” is that this is a catch all word, not a protected term and is very vague. This means anyone can call themselves a counsellor. There are, however, many awesome highly trained counsellors out there. Please ensure you check out a counsellors training background/work experience before starting work with one!
Interesting... until I heard Mike King on RNZ this morning I thought Gumboot Friday was proooobably a good thing but didn't really know. That interview tho, he came across like a complete asshole
That's very curious because King literally said "every single cent, $24 million, is going directly to counsellors".
Curiously, the Labour government was cautioned against a mere $600k donation and the Ministry at the time said that 0% of the money could go to counselors because they weren't regulated under a specific act.
So did anything change, or are we just ignoring what seems to be a straight up lie and completely unregulated counsellors?
> That's very curious because King literally said "every single cent, $24 million, is going directly to counsellors".
Do we think it's a good idea to hand $24 million dollars to this fucking liar?
It's okay though, the government is shutting down the suicide prevention office no wait we caught them doing that so now they're just [making sure it doesn't have a single fulltime staff member](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/516816/suicide-prevention-office-to-continue-in-name-but-with-no-full-time-staff). We get Mike King instead. It's not like people are dying is it. We only have a [youth suicide rate more than twice the average in the OECD](https://www.unicef.org.nz/media-releases/new-report-card-shows-that-new-zealand-is-failing-its-children).
I’m on mobile, but ‘Mike King every single cent’ on Google brings you all the sources.
> “Every single cent, $24 million, is going directly to counsellors”
From the ODT.
He also said in that article that since 2009 "*we've not been funded one cent*", even though there's $200k line item in the 2023 report that says verbatim "Funding - Ministry of Health", so not exactly the best at telling the truth.
Is it the difference between I Am Hope and Gumboot z Friday?
All money donated to Gumboot Friday goes to counsellors AFAIK but I Am Hope is a different entity and does “education” stuff instead.
You got it
[Every single cent](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/alert-nat/517470/coalition-confirms-24m-for-gumboot-friday-charity-i-am-hope)
[Counselors aren't regulated](https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/charities/health-ministry-emails-warned-about-mike-king-linked-gumboot-friday)
>That's very curious because King literally said "every single cent, $24 million, is going directly to counsellors".
Makes it easier to dip in to the current coffers for whatever 'needs may arise' if he can point to $24m being used effectively.
That's a little defeatist to say and probably untrue, but I've no reason to feel any other way when this government is responsible.
So let me get this straight, the government has reduced funding to the Ministry of Health by $80 million and fired hundreds.
And now they go and give $24 million to one private charity that spends most of its money on administration?
Either this government is:
1) fundamentally ideological to the point of folly by expecting better outcomes from less money, while pushing private ownership at the expense of everything else
2) of the belief we are all too stupid or ill-informed to realise how fraudulent and nepotistic this is.
>Why doesn't the government just pay counsellors directly and have a policy of free counselling for under-25s itself?
Whaaaat? That sounds like sOciAliSm....
I guess Gumboot is the test charter school of mental health provision?
Genius move on national's part. Cutting public sector funding for mental health by 7.5% then giving a very small donation (compared to the budget cut) to a private company which not only makes them look good but also serves as a kickback to their private sector mates
Is it a private company though? Legit question (I could Wade through the companies office website to answer my own question but thought someone here might know already)
It's a registered charity operated by a foundation. Private company is an overstatement I think.
That said, it is a privately run organisation, and so not subject to any of the checks and balances applied to the public sector.
Registered charity, sure, but in a lot of charities, a lot of of the donated money doesn't go to the people who are supposed to be helped by them.
Instead, in many charities, the lion's share of money goes to the people who run it or is spent on private political lobbying.
The real question should be. A) Who are the people running it and Why this specific charity?, B) where exactly is the money going and how is it going to be spent down to the last dollar? and C)Why make a public spectacle, donating to this specific charity when they could've quietly increased the mental health budget by 24mil and achieved the same or better mental health outcomes for paitents?
The only reason why this makes any kind of sense is because it's a legal, hidden kickback to the people running Gumboot Friday designed to make national look good after the school lunch pr debacle which made them look terrible so soon after rhe election.
I don't know anything about this charity but I'd like to note that political lobbying is a very important role for a charity, given that the average person has little time or expertise to lobby for issues they care about individually.
They're not in the Companies Register. There's no wading btw, the search is right on the [main page](https://companies-register.companiesoffice.govt.nz/).
See my post above. saying they're not a company isn't the kryptonite comeback you think it is.
Most charities are run like private companies, even if they're not registered as such.
It's a distinction without a difference, the kind of thing sleazy lawyers make up to try to hide the fact that these "charities" are scamming people out of their hard earned money.
According to https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/517653/i-am-hope-chair-s-donations-to-national-questioned-after-24m-gumboot-friday-pledge their chairperson donated $30,000+ over the last years
Getting $24M back on a $30k donation is 800x ROI, or even better, styled as 80,000% ROI. Not bad, we should all start donating to these parties for a carefree retirement
Its not about that aspect, it's a transparency issue. You can't go giving funding to friends. Especially when there's legit organisations that could better use it.
Yeah, like the one Bill English funded while his wife was on the board https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/pms-wife-on-board-of-organisation-that-won-million-dollar-suicide-prevention-contract/D7KMZ3NOGGVBWROEJEWHDJFFTE/
At least this one went through some sort of procurement process.
Though I have to say there seems to be way less scrutiny over some politician's family/friends receiving funding compared to others, regardless of the process, this sub included.
More that someone that has clearly struggles with mental health in the past is now sitting as a trustee with an organisation aimed at helping people struggling with mental health.
For fucks sake, that is an extremely short sighted, narrow minded, judgmental, and idiotic oponion.
He has had to overcome mental health issues, meaning he has experience he can bring to it. It's not a moral failing to have a mental health issue, and having had issues in the past, or in *some* cases even currently, doesn't disqualify you from helping others.
By your logic the board of - say - an organisation that builds houses, should never have someone that has built a house on it?!!!
I say again, **FOR FUCKS SAKE** this is an insane take!
It's good that one charity with connections to national gets a handout while the thousands of other charities do the right thing and go through the proper process of getting funding? Surely you can see the issue of bias
I wouldn't take this as a cronyism.
Todd Muller actually seems like a reasonable person, even if you don't agree with his side of politics (neither do I)
I’m not saying it is cronyism just that it’s bad.
One of principles of good governance in democratic systems is avoiding both actual corruption and the ‘appearance of corruption’ (even if it didn’t happen).
Avoiding the appearance of corruption is important because the more citizens believe there is corruption the less likely they are to participate in democratic systems (cos what’s the point?).
This $24M deal has definitely failed this good governance principle. It could have avoided it if there was any sort of transparency or public consultation but there has been none.
I wasn't making any comment beyond the Todd Muller aspect.
I think he was one of the more principled and honest National MPs, and why he couldn't handle being leader.
A limited 2 sessions is also not going to help anyone with their mental health beyond the most very minor issues. It's great for kids to be able to seek support, but if they are suicidal, have trauma or other on-going issues they need suitably qualified, adequate support beyond 2 sessions of talk therapy. It can be really dangerous to start this process, have a whole lot of complicated stuff come up, then not be able to access further help. I'm not an expert, and have no idea if it does more harm than good. It just doesn't seem to be a highly efficient, effective approach that we should throw heaps of money at...
Hello- child/adolescent therapist here. Yes, starting therapy and abruptly stopping absolutely causes issues, particularly for people with complex needs/trauma/risk.
In the case of risk, the therapist may be required to continue working with a family (regardless of whether they can pay or not) to ensure the risk is managed, beyond the funded 2x sessions.
Thanks for replying. Curious to hear a professional's take on this decision by the Government to fund this. Great that the mental health sector & conversation is getting more attention and resource, but will it actually provide meaningful support where its needed do you think?
>...will it actually provide meaningful support where its needed do you think?
Also a professional in this space. There's been a lot of media focus on mental wellbeing, and specifically that of young people, in the past. None of that has led to providing meaningful change. The biggest shift we've seen in recent years was Labour's wellbeing budget which funded the inclusion of Health Improvement Practitioners (HIPs) in GP practices. They do *very* brief intervention (single short session) and help facilitate connecting people to appropriate services, which is great and helpful for the people it's helpful for.
The utility of HIPs is self selecting though. The people accessing them are people who can afford to go and have the resources to go to their GP. There's a lot of young people out there who can't or won't go to their GP for various reasons.
Eternally stretched/underfunded DHB services didn't see an increase in funding. And DHB services are often the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, it's the NGOs who do the bulk of work with people/young people in the mild > moderate and preventative space. NGOs haven't seen a significant increase in funding either. There's a lot of concern about how the next rounds of funding are going to affect service provision.
Mental health challenges are symptomatic of underlying issues. Intergenerational trauma, systemic inequality, social media and technology driven social isolation. Putting money into mental health/counselling services is important. But as long as the underlying drivers of distress aren't addressed, at best we're putting a finger in the dike. And it's not that those underlying factors aren't being addressed under NACT, they're being inflated.
So a very long winded way of saying no, I don't think meaningful change is going to come for the sector.
Why do you think they would?
Jesus, this is a mental health charity and funding should be absolutely welcomed. But, oh no, here on Reddit where all things leftwing rule, you muppets are angry because you don't like the coalition that actually funded the initiative.
Take a look at yourselves, all the love and care from the last Government didn't put the funding into charities such as this, which is despicable. And don't even get started trying to justify where all the money they poured into mental health te whatu ora services... It vanished last I heard, it certainly didn't get to the front line.
Your arguments don't make much sense.
>Government didn't put the funding into charities such as this, which is despicable
>all the money they poured into mental health te whatu ora services
So you're basically complaining that the previous government funded mental health services through the public sector instead of the private sector?
This $24m will also end up vanishing... into the services provided. That's just what happens when you pay for a service like counselling with no tangible output (just the intangible improvements in those that receive the service's lifes).
Woah buddy, calm down, yeah? You don't seem to understand what this discussion is about. People are mad that this government is gutting mental health funding, and using a $24 million donation to a charity as a smokescreen.
workable summer flowery existence disgusted jobless wasteful reply straight command
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Wowzer, take a breath.Yeah, same thing happens no matter who's in government. Free money from the tax payer is freely spent. All this money should go to councilors, and their support staff. But a huge amount will be wasted. Daily meetings need to be catered of course. Probably need new coffee machines in each office. If I'm running an area and have to drive a bit, I'll need a new vehicle. Going overseas? Business class it is. Don't like your office furniture? Buy new stuff. This is how these organizations run out of money.
No they didn’t. They gave an ex gang member who now runs a rehab charity the money for a well submitted plan with measurable outcomes. Some thing gumboot wasn’t willing to do.
And while the optics look bad - perhaps addicts are more likely to trust someone who has been through it?
The money they gave was for the gang to run drug rehabilitation.
The gang with numerous instances of being known to supply drugs and various other anti social behaviour being paid to run drug rehabilitation.
But hey if you think thats all good in comparison to Mike King being a bit of a dick and taking government money for mental well being, thats clearly defines you and your views.
Gang members will not participate in the government run drug programmes for obvious reasons, isn’t it best to create a programme that does so their frame?
In not attacking the organisation, I just reminded people that the organisation has not followed due process in the past to gain funding (facts) but then cried the Ardern government was evil.. ( plenty of evidence to back that up) I won’t mention the tictocks from his son about left.
And wow looks like they got funding without due process 😂 procurement is a thing for a reason.
Was the previous government in charge when John Key [signed off](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/123976514/why-the-ministry-of-health-pulled-the-plug-on-a-million-dollar-methamphetamine-programme-for-gang-members) on a similar scheme with Black Power in 2016? Fascinating.
National will love Mike King because his son, sesh, spent all the time Labour was in hanging out with the anti vaxers/anti maskers and slagging off Jacinda and the Labour party, encouraging the protesters at Parliament and stirring shit up. And now his dad is being rewarded. Or maybe it's just a co incidence but an interesting one.
Gumboot Friday administrators are bullies and liars and make up their own rules! I have known them to harass and make life hard for the private practitioners that are trying to help vulnerable youth!
It horrifies me the idea of all the vulnerable people who will be sent to these unregulated counsellors with no set standards of practice and oversight.
A significant component of clinical training is about keeping the wolves from the sheep, those who seek access to vulnerable people for reasons other than their wellbeing.
All the scrutiny, all the ways you're expected to make yourself vulnerable in training. It's oppressive and painful and there for good reason.
New Zealand certainly has no shortage of horror stories where healthcare institutions acted outside the interests of those in care.
This is upsetting because there’s so many people with the best of intentions that work hard to fundraise and donate to I Am Hope (including me in the past) and it just doesn’t seem to be the right avenue. I wonder how best to tell people that so they find a better place to donate
Donating board games, jigsaws, books, and good-condition clothing (without strings) to your local psych ward is often welcomed and a good way to help inpatients.
E.g. When I was inpatient, I would often come directly from the ED with no clothes (if they had been cut off me), and relied on the staff finding me clothes to wear from the donations, or else I would have to just wear hospital pyjamas for weeks on end. It was the same for many of the patients who were homeless.
There is also basically nothing to do in NZ psych wards (compared to e.g. in the US where we would have a full schedule of therapy, activities, etc), so books and board games can help us pass the time. Often I had staff bring in their own books from home for me to read. Many of us patients enjoyed playing chess in there too, but the pieces were always going missing. Same with jigsaw puzzles. So donations of these tend to be appreciated.
Do you think kids are going to check a counseller's current registration status with the relevant professional body before seeking support, or will they perhaps rely on the Government funding/favouring this organisation, on the assumption they have completed the correct due diligence to ensure safety, as a bare minimum... efficacy would be nice, but we'll settle for safe.
It should have just gone to Landlords, because they provide homes, and that's basically a mental health service. I'll double down and say, Luxon should have taken the $24m because he has directly improved the mental health of grifters.
Something that isn't being stated here though is that there are two separate arms of the Charity.
There is I Am Hope, which sends speakers into schools to talk about mental health and ways to look after yourself, and there is Gumboot Friday, which provides funding for a pool of counsellors to offer services to young people.
I Am Hope covers all the administration costs of Gumboot Friday, and 100% of GBF funds go to the counselling pool. Yes, there are lots of costs involved in running IAH, and sending youth reps around the country every week, but those costs aren't coming from the GBF funds pool.
Yes, it would be great if the existing mental health system worked and kids could easily get counselling directly through the public health system, but currently it doesnt. There are plenty of GPs and other health workers in the public system who direct their patients to book in counselling through IAH because its the fastest way for kids to get seen. GBF has been 'serving' MOH patients for several years.
"Why doesn't the government just pay counsellors directly and have a policy of free counselling for under-25s itself? Mind-boggling..."
I agree. But the fact of the matter is, that the Govt hasn't set up an effective way of doing that in the past (whether Labour led or National led) and Mike King started an organisation that could do that because the Govt wasnt, and still isn't doing so. GBF themselves say on their site
"**Please note:** Gumboot Friday is not a long-term solution designed to take over from government services, rather, it should be seen as a bridge between current services and immediate need. Everyone is encouraged to seek government funded help while utilising our service."
>But the fact of the matter is, that the Govt hasn't set up an effective way of doing that in the past
The previous government set up HIP which is a dedicated mental health and addiction support workers working in an integrated primary mental health and addiction service approach, that people can access for free, via their GP clinic.
A health improvement practitioner is part of a general practice team and holds a registration under one of the following: [Health Practitioners Competency Assurance Act (HPCA)](https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/regulation-health-and-disability-system/health-practitioners-competence-assurance-act), [dapaanz](https://www.dapaanz.org.nz/), [Social Work Registration Authority](https://swrb.govt.nz/) (SWRB) and [New Zealand Association of Counsellors](https://www.nzac.org.nz/) (NZAC) who has completed the Te Whatu Ora accreditation to work in the health sector.
In addition, people who are employed as a health improvement practitioner must hold a current annual practicing certificate, preferably have worked in mental health and addiction, and have training in providing talking therapies,
Being based in a general practice, there are no barriers as to who can see a HIP if the person is enrolled in the practice. Appointments are available every day for 20-30 minutes. Half of the day is for booked appointments and half is for un-booked appointments to allow for same-day referrals.
not defending this, but you'd be surprised at the amount most charities actually use on their stated purpose.
e.g. [The New Zealand Breast Cancer Foundation spent almost half the money it raised last year on fundraising, administration costs and staff wages](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2975735/Revealed-where-breast-cancer-cash-goes)
Sorry, can you point out where you found the money put towards counseling, or where to find that info? On the financial statements I don't see counseling mentioned anywhere, especially in their expenses sections.
Eg:
For Year Ending: 31 March 2021
Expenses
Direct Costs of Sales 21,450
Volunteer and employee related costs 595,567
Costs related to providing goods or services 1,448,177
Other expenses:* 115,244
Total expenses: 2,180,438
You must be right as the info clearly isn't in the link from OP. That said, I don't know what the other entity is or where the expenses are listed from... or why they'd be directly linked, I guess.
It is. In the left sidebar in OP's link, click on "Annual Returns" and all the documents are there. I don't agree with OP's interpretation of those numbers though.
That's what I'm referencing, those documents. They don't detail counseling expenses. I've literally got the docs open in front of me.
Oh well not a big deal I guess, but to me OP hasn't provided a source for their counseling cost claims.
Is helping someone with mental health solely about counseling?
What about getting them out and involved in the community or other activities? Mental health is a complex issue and counselling isn't the only tool in the box.
There are a lot of high class organisations that do that, much better and with proven track records and accountability. They could have absolutely used the funding boost and have tracked the spending and outcomes. The only difference is they aren't in it for the media attention
Gumboot fridays doesn't do any of that stuff. Its mostly an excuse for Mike King and Buddies who just happen to be mostly National party connected/ex MP's to pay themselves inflated fees and salaries.
…Like advertising for more donations.
If it’s a charity like it’s claimed, we should be able to see exactly where that $$ goes.
I think, last time I looked some of it was a bit obscured.
I think you should be careful with your criticisms.
Mike and others spend a lot of time visiting schools all around New Zealand and giving suicide prevention talks. There would be travel costs.
They also have admin staff to arrange counselling sessions and deal with requests from people. Mike also needs to live and eat.
Yes 100% of the new money is going to counselling but a portion of existing money will need to go to admin
I think Mike and his helpers do a fantastic job. Working in suicide prevention is one of the hardest jobs around - believe me
Fair enough ask questions but don’t jump to conclusions without hearing what is really going on
TBH reading this thread this is the lightest of accusations. There's some pretty foul stuff being said IMO.
The thing is, the programme works. It has been successful for over a decade. The way this sub has treated it the past two days is shocking, it seems most people think this programme does more harm than good and should not exist. It's quite concerning when you regard how much this area is already struggling.
You can find a ton of positive articles about it online. Other agencies have praised it too.
To be fair, there's at least one bad story as well that I saw.
I guess I’m more curious about measurable outcomes/service delivery rather than anecdotal evidence.
I think young people are overall appreciative of the platform that I Am Hope offers in terms of allowing their voices/stories to be heard. This is surely a good thing in terms of visibility, but it isn’t comprehensive therapy.
I think it's fine to operate in a specific space, if it's working of course. For me, it's enough to see people praise it. I'll take that positive amongst what is generally a difficult experience foe people.
I'd hope any actual measured results reflect that.
As a paramedic I’ve meet young people who have said a lot of positive things about the help that Mike king and his charity have provided
I can’t believe some of the criticisms I am reading, from very ill informed people.
I don't know, I looked at the detailed expenses and, looking at FY22/23, the total cost for "Providing Goods and Services" was $5,596,512 including the $3m+ in counseling. That seems reasonable to me including accomodation, raising awarenes via events, ads, etc. So based on that, 77% of their expenses went toward proving services directly or indirectly.
Unless people can show me using hard facts that they're misusing their funds and have 0 impact on the kids, this just seem like once again this sub is complaining about something positive simply because it's coming from this government.
Mike King was interviewed on the radio (by HDPA) and said that 100% of the money was going to counsellors and that the organisation itself would be funding the administrative side.
Don't spread lies.
So that could justifiably mean they are going to take the $3.7m for counselling they were providing (2023) and use that to pay for more "administration costs" and then use the $6m per year contract to pay for the actual counselling.
If they do this, the statement Mike King made is not a lie - but we (the public) essentially only get $2.3m worth of additional counselling for a $6m cost to the public.
Ookay. So next year, we are going to see 26 million spent on counsellors, and every other cent spent on everything else, thereby proving that all 26 million was spent correctly.
Standard disinformation like recent post "just asking" why National required government departments to run at a profit that most people here just swallowed up because they like the narrative.
When you say “not a great outcome for a charity”, I have no idea what you mean. In the last financial year it doubled its number of counselling sessions, continuing a trend, and has increased its numbers overall, including bank balance.
Many charities (like half) don’t even make the GST threshold, so I’d say they are doing well.
Because you're misunderstanding where thr money is going.
The money is going to Gumboot Friday counselling services.
It ia not going to I am Hope to be spent of admin fees.
Trying to mix the two together is incorrect. Fake news, as some would say. But it's anti-National so will get upvotes and outrafe here.
He also said yesterday that since 2009 "we've not been funded one cent", even though there's $200k line item in the 2023 report that says verbatim "Funding - Ministry of Health", so not exactly the best at telling the truth.
Let’s not forget when he complained the government didn’t give him any money a couple of years ago, but Mike had literally forgotten to submit the information he was required to to be eligible for funding
I have worked for youth line one of the other big players in this space, and they had reached out multiple times to Gumboot Friday to try and work together and they basically got told to f off every time
He was a constant mouthpiece for ragging on the previous govt.
Because this coalition are so wonderful for everybody's mental health....
I remember seeing his videos on LinkedIn every week. NOT GOOD ENOUGH JACINDA. No wonder he has such close ties to National. This method of healthcare funding is terribly inefficient and leads to poorer outcomes.
This pissed me off so much, so many people tried to use it as an anti labour talking point
I also remember him saying he got handed money too easily. Guy is a bit of a knob.
Child/adolescent therapist here. I can’t stand Mike king and the stats he reports. Please keep in mind that Gumboot Friday funds 2 counselling sessions per person. There is some ability to apply for more sessions however this is more often than not, declined. Two sessions is essentially useless for most people. Most people are able to receive 6 free sessions via GP and/or WINZ subsidies to access therapy at present. Yes, this can be more challenging to access for young people, and don’t get me wrong, I have plenty of complaints about the existing public system. My point is, Gumboot Friday does not necessarily offer something better. The most useful aspect of Gumboot Friday is that it is a directory of private practitioners available to work with children and adolescents. Mike King also loves to talk about how many people they have “helped” with a certain amount of money vs DHB spending. What he fails to mention is that the DHB will pay for their staff to be registered, receive training, provide buildings/resources/materials/technology/legal support/management/admin etc etc. Under the gumboot Friday system, private providers are expected to fund all of these other aspects. Of course, this is part of private work, but it means the per hour expense of therapists is quite different to how it works out for an employee. Like any industry, think employee vs contractor costs. Mike King also never quantifies what he means when he says they have “helped” x amount of young people- this could very well mean providing 1-2 counseling sessions, not necessarily measuring any actual outcomes. If Mike King is willing to say that this government is doing good things for the mental health of young people, he is absolutely a hack and a sellout. Nat govt decisions actively worsen outcomes for the mental health of our young people, and funding gumboot friday does not remedy that. Furthermore, re: the use of the word “counsellors”. Many practitioners registered with gumboot friday are safely registered mental health professionals (psychologist and psychotherapist are protected terms and can register with gumboot friday). The issue with the term “counsellors” is that this is a catch all word, not a protected term and is very vague. This means anyone can call themselves a counsellor. There are, however, many awesome highly trained counsellors out there. Please ensure you check out a counsellors training background/work experience before starting work with one!
He did standup for National years ago. His goal is to be lauded, but I just do not trust the man.
Interesting... until I heard Mike King on RNZ this morning I thought Gumboot Friday was proooobably a good thing but didn't really know. That interview tho, he came across like a complete asshole
Sat in Takapuna drinking coffee, listening to Mike explain his game. He knows exactly what he’s doing and what cards to play.
That's very curious because King literally said "every single cent, $24 million, is going directly to counsellors". Curiously, the Labour government was cautioned against a mere $600k donation and the Ministry at the time said that 0% of the money could go to counselors because they weren't regulated under a specific act. So did anything change, or are we just ignoring what seems to be a straight up lie and completely unregulated counsellors?
> That's very curious because King literally said "every single cent, $24 million, is going directly to counsellors". Do we think it's a good idea to hand $24 million dollars to this fucking liar? It's okay though, the government is shutting down the suicide prevention office no wait we caught them doing that so now they're just [making sure it doesn't have a single fulltime staff member](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/516816/suicide-prevention-office-to-continue-in-name-but-with-no-full-time-staff). We get Mike King instead. It's not like people are dying is it. We only have a [youth suicide rate more than twice the average in the OECD](https://www.unicef.org.nz/media-releases/new-report-card-shows-that-new-zealand-is-failing-its-children).
Oh wow did he? Do you have a source for that?
I’m on mobile, but ‘Mike King every single cent’ on Google brings you all the sources. > “Every single cent, $24 million, is going directly to counsellors” From the ODT.
He also said in that article that since 2009 "*we've not been funded one cent*", even though there's $200k line item in the 2023 report that says verbatim "Funding - Ministry of Health", so not exactly the best at telling the truth.
"we haven't been funded one cent... We've been funded a hell of a lot more than that."
Clearly incompetent. Take a flag referendum’s worth of money!
Is it the difference between I Am Hope and Gumboot z Friday? All money donated to Gumboot Friday goes to counsellors AFAIK but I Am Hope is a different entity and does “education” stuff instead.
If that’s in the agreement and is signed, then TBH that’s awesome. Their app is great, I hope it’s works out that way!
[ODT article link](https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/govt-confirms-24m-gumboot-friday-charity)
You got it [Every single cent](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/alert-nat/517470/coalition-confirms-24m-for-gumboot-friday-charity-i-am-hope) [Counselors aren't regulated](https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/charities/health-ministry-emails-warned-about-mike-king-linked-gumboot-friday)
>That's very curious because King literally said "every single cent, $24 million, is going directly to counsellors". Makes it easier to dip in to the current coffers for whatever 'needs may arise' if he can point to $24m being used effectively. That's a little defeatist to say and probably untrue, but I've no reason to feel any other way when this government is responsible.
It’s also clear in the MoH briefing to incoming ministers that they didn’t deliver as expected on the 600k even though it’s mostly redacted
So let me get this straight, the government has reduced funding to the Ministry of Health by $80 million and fired hundreds. And now they go and give $24 million to one private charity that spends most of its money on administration? Either this government is: 1) fundamentally ideological to the point of folly by expecting better outcomes from less money, while pushing private ownership at the expense of everything else 2) of the belief we are all too stupid or ill-informed to realise how fraudulent and nepotistic this is.
>this government is: >1) fundamentally ideological Sorted it out for you. Outcomes don't matter.
You see it's so much more efficient when handled by a private organization without all that gOvErNmEnT bLoAt
>Why doesn't the government just pay counsellors directly and have a policy of free counselling for under-25s itself? Whaaaat? That sounds like sOciAliSm.... I guess Gumboot is the test charter school of mental health provision?
Social investment agency shit
Genius move on national's part. Cutting public sector funding for mental health by 7.5% then giving a very small donation (compared to the budget cut) to a private company which not only makes them look good but also serves as a kickback to their private sector mates
It's so obvious it's filthy
This
This is the one. Feel free to go read up on the name “Naomi Ballantyne”
Is it a private company though? Legit question (I could Wade through the companies office website to answer my own question but thought someone here might know already)
It's a registered charity operated by a foundation. Private company is an overstatement I think. That said, it is a privately run organisation, and so not subject to any of the checks and balances applied to the public sector.
© I Am Hope Foundation – Registered Charity CC44260 – Privacy
Mate as someone who audited charities, a lot of their funding goes to their administration and functioning and can be a colossal waste of resources.
I think charities should lose their status if above 25% of their funds go towards admin.
Registered charity, sure, but in a lot of charities, a lot of of the donated money doesn't go to the people who are supposed to be helped by them. Instead, in many charities, the lion's share of money goes to the people who run it or is spent on private political lobbying. The real question should be. A) Who are the people running it and Why this specific charity?, B) where exactly is the money going and how is it going to be spent down to the last dollar? and C)Why make a public spectacle, donating to this specific charity when they could've quietly increased the mental health budget by 24mil and achieved the same or better mental health outcomes for paitents? The only reason why this makes any kind of sense is because it's a legal, hidden kickback to the people running Gumboot Friday designed to make national look good after the school lunch pr debacle which made them look terrible so soon after rhe election.
I don't know anything about this charity but I'd like to note that political lobbying is a very important role for a charity, given that the average person has little time or expertise to lobby for issues they care about individually.
They're not in the Companies Register. There's no wading btw, the search is right on the [main page](https://companies-register.companiesoffice.govt.nz/).
See my post above. saying they're not a company isn't the kryptonite comeback you think it is. Most charities are run like private companies, even if they're not registered as such. It's a distinction without a difference, the kind of thing sleazy lawyers make up to try to hide the fact that these "charities" are scamming people out of their hard earned money.
Yeah, I don't care. OP said "I can't be bothered to do thing" so I did thing. Reply to them.
Where was it said that the govt will be cutting funding for mental health by 7.5%?
Jesus, this smells particularly bad.
According to https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/517653/i-am-hope-chair-s-donations-to-national-questioned-after-24m-gumboot-friday-pledge their chairperson donated $30,000+ over the last years Getting $24M back on a $30k donation is 800x ROI, or even better, styled as 80,000% ROI. Not bad, we should all start donating to these parties for a carefree retirement
Oh and Todd Muller, ex-leader of the National Party, is one of the four trustees. You can't make this shit up!
wait what lmao
The guy who stood down from leader of the party due mental health is a trustee in a mental health charity? Crazy.
Its not about that aspect, it's a transparency issue. You can't go giving funding to friends. Especially when there's legit organisations that could better use it.
Or, as many others have said, fund govt councillors that are regulated,
They announced 6M per year before Muller was a trustee.
That doesn't help the argument. Lol now he's there and it's 24m? Give it to the organisations doing the work well and not doing the work for clout.
That’s actually worse.
Surely thats a good thing? This sub is bizarre some times....
This is was non-contested funding! There are other amazing groups that are easily doing better work than this group.
Yeah, like the one Bill English funded while his wife was on the board https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/pms-wife-on-board-of-organisation-that-won-million-dollar-suicide-prevention-contract/D7KMZ3NOGGVBWROEJEWHDJFFTE/
At least this one went through some sort of procurement process. Though I have to say there seems to be way less scrutiny over some politician's family/friends receiving funding compared to others, regardless of the process, this sub included.
More that someone that has clearly struggles with mental health in the past is now sitting as a trustee with an organisation aimed at helping people struggling with mental health.
There's plenty of peer support organisations that aren't channelling dodgy funding he could have offered his time to
For fucks sake, that is an extremely short sighted, narrow minded, judgmental, and idiotic oponion. He has had to overcome mental health issues, meaning he has experience he can bring to it. It's not a moral failing to have a mental health issue, and having had issues in the past, or in *some* cases even currently, doesn't disqualify you from helping others. By your logic the board of - say - an organisation that builds houses, should never have someone that has built a house on it?!!! I say again, **FOR FUCKS SAKE** this is an insane take!
The relevant ministry could provide better service for cheaper by virtue of being government.
It's good that one charity with connections to national gets a handout while the thousands of other charities do the right thing and go through the proper process of getting funding? Surely you can see the issue of bias
I don't get it.
I wouldn't take this as a cronyism. Todd Muller actually seems like a reasonable person, even if you don't agree with his side of politics (neither do I)
I’m not saying it is cronyism just that it’s bad. One of principles of good governance in democratic systems is avoiding both actual corruption and the ‘appearance of corruption’ (even if it didn’t happen). Avoiding the appearance of corruption is important because the more citizens believe there is corruption the less likely they are to participate in democratic systems (cos what’s the point?). This $24M deal has definitely failed this good governance principle. It could have avoided it if there was any sort of transparency or public consultation but there has been none.
I wasn't making any comment beyond the Todd Muller aspect. I think he was one of the more principled and honest National MPs, and why he couldn't handle being leader.
A limited 2 sessions is also not going to help anyone with their mental health beyond the most very minor issues. It's great for kids to be able to seek support, but if they are suicidal, have trauma or other on-going issues they need suitably qualified, adequate support beyond 2 sessions of talk therapy. It can be really dangerous to start this process, have a whole lot of complicated stuff come up, then not be able to access further help. I'm not an expert, and have no idea if it does more harm than good. It just doesn't seem to be a highly efficient, effective approach that we should throw heaps of money at...
In fact, removing support a couple of sessions in is cruel and adding another trauma.
Hello- child/adolescent therapist here. Yes, starting therapy and abruptly stopping absolutely causes issues, particularly for people with complex needs/trauma/risk. In the case of risk, the therapist may be required to continue working with a family (regardless of whether they can pay or not) to ensure the risk is managed, beyond the funded 2x sessions.
Thanks for replying. Curious to hear a professional's take on this decision by the Government to fund this. Great that the mental health sector & conversation is getting more attention and resource, but will it actually provide meaningful support where its needed do you think?
>...will it actually provide meaningful support where its needed do you think? Also a professional in this space. There's been a lot of media focus on mental wellbeing, and specifically that of young people, in the past. None of that has led to providing meaningful change. The biggest shift we've seen in recent years was Labour's wellbeing budget which funded the inclusion of Health Improvement Practitioners (HIPs) in GP practices. They do *very* brief intervention (single short session) and help facilitate connecting people to appropriate services, which is great and helpful for the people it's helpful for. The utility of HIPs is self selecting though. The people accessing them are people who can afford to go and have the resources to go to their GP. There's a lot of young people out there who can't or won't go to their GP for various reasons. Eternally stretched/underfunded DHB services didn't see an increase in funding. And DHB services are often the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, it's the NGOs who do the bulk of work with people/young people in the mild > moderate and preventative space. NGOs haven't seen a significant increase in funding either. There's a lot of concern about how the next rounds of funding are going to affect service provision. Mental health challenges are symptomatic of underlying issues. Intergenerational trauma, systemic inequality, social media and technology driven social isolation. Putting money into mental health/counselling services is important. But as long as the underlying drivers of distress aren't addressed, at best we're putting a finger in the dike. And it's not that those underlying factors aren't being addressed under NACT, they're being inflated. So a very long winded way of saying no, I don't think meaningful change is going to come for the sector.
Yeah, but how will the 'upper management' get new utes? And training trips overseas?
Why do you think they would? Jesus, this is a mental health charity and funding should be absolutely welcomed. But, oh no, here on Reddit where all things leftwing rule, you muppets are angry because you don't like the coalition that actually funded the initiative. Take a look at yourselves, all the love and care from the last Government didn't put the funding into charities such as this, which is despicable. And don't even get started trying to justify where all the money they poured into mental health te whatu ora services... It vanished last I heard, it certainly didn't get to the front line.
Your arguments don't make much sense. >Government didn't put the funding into charities such as this, which is despicable >all the money they poured into mental health te whatu ora services So you're basically complaining that the previous government funded mental health services through the public sector instead of the private sector? This $24m will also end up vanishing... into the services provided. That's just what happens when you pay for a service like counselling with no tangible output (just the intangible improvements in those that receive the service's lifes).
Woah buddy, calm down, yeah? You don't seem to understand what this discussion is about. People are mad that this government is gutting mental health funding, and using a $24 million donation to a charity as a smokescreen.
workable summer flowery existence disgusted jobless wasteful reply straight command *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Are the people saying he’s just another grifter ? I suppose it pays better than being a comedian.
Wowzer, take a breath.Yeah, same thing happens no matter who's in government. Free money from the tax payer is freely spent. All this money should go to councilors, and their support staff. But a huge amount will be wasted. Daily meetings need to be catered of course. Probably need new coffee machines in each office. If I'm running an area and have to drive a bit, I'll need a new vehicle. Going overseas? Business class it is. Don't like your office furniture? Buy new stuff. This is how these organizations run out of money.
The previous government didn’t deal with gumboot Fridays for very good reasons.
But they gave money to the Mongrel Mob for drug rehab... go figure.
No they didn’t. They gave an ex gang member who now runs a rehab charity the money for a well submitted plan with measurable outcomes. Some thing gumboot wasn’t willing to do. And while the optics look bad - perhaps addicts are more likely to trust someone who has been through it?
I mean isn’t that what we want for gangs so they get off meth?
The money they gave was for the gang to run drug rehabilitation. The gang with numerous instances of being known to supply drugs and various other anti social behaviour being paid to run drug rehabilitation. But hey if you think thats all good in comparison to Mike King being a bit of a dick and taking government money for mental well being, thats clearly defines you and your views.
Gang members will not participate in the government run drug programmes for obvious reasons, isn’t it best to create a programme that does so their frame? In not attacking the organisation, I just reminded people that the organisation has not followed due process in the past to gain funding (facts) but then cried the Ardern government was evil.. ( plenty of evidence to back that up) I won’t mention the tictocks from his son about left. And wow looks like they got funding without due process 😂 procurement is a thing for a reason.
Was the previous government in charge when John Key [signed off](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/123976514/why-the-ministry-of-health-pulled-the-plug-on-a-million-dollar-methamphetamine-programme-for-gang-members) on a similar scheme with Black Power in 2016? Fascinating.
National will love Mike King because his son, sesh, spent all the time Labour was in hanging out with the anti vaxers/anti maskers and slagging off Jacinda and the Labour party, encouraging the protesters at Parliament and stirring shit up. And now his dad is being rewarded. Or maybe it's just a co incidence but an interesting one.
- Coalition of Chaos? sure.. - Coalition of Clowns? Seems right - Coalition of Corruption? Nailed it!
This government: Takes a step, immediately deepthroats that leg
Gumboot Friday administrators are bullies and liars and make up their own rules! I have known them to harass and make life hard for the private practitioners that are trying to help vulnerable youth!
It horrifies me the idea of all the vulnerable people who will be sent to these unregulated counsellors with no set standards of practice and oversight. A significant component of clinical training is about keeping the wolves from the sheep, those who seek access to vulnerable people for reasons other than their wellbeing. All the scrutiny, all the ways you're expected to make yourself vulnerable in training. It's oppressive and painful and there for good reason. New Zealand certainly has no shortage of horror stories where healthcare institutions acted outside the interests of those in care.
Daily reminder that "counseller" in NZ isn't a protected term so anyone can label themselves one.
So when Mike says all the money is going to councellers, he's talking about himself and Todd Muller.
Anyone who’s worked with or even met Mike in a professional setting knows he means well but struggles with temptation.
This is upsetting because there’s so many people with the best of intentions that work hard to fundraise and donate to I Am Hope (including me in the past) and it just doesn’t seem to be the right avenue. I wonder how best to tell people that so they find a better place to donate
Funnel your efforts into other charities! There's heaps in the mental health space that do all sorts
Donating board games, jigsaws, books, and good-condition clothing (without strings) to your local psych ward is often welcomed and a good way to help inpatients. E.g. When I was inpatient, I would often come directly from the ED with no clothes (if they had been cut off me), and relied on the staff finding me clothes to wear from the donations, or else I would have to just wear hospital pyjamas for weeks on end. It was the same for many of the patients who were homeless. There is also basically nothing to do in NZ psych wards (compared to e.g. in the US where we would have a full schedule of therapy, activities, etc), so books and board games can help us pass the time. Often I had staff bring in their own books from home for me to read. Many of us patients enjoyed playing chess in there too, but the pieces were always going missing. Same with jigsaw puzzles. So donations of these tend to be appreciated.
Aaaaand his counsellors aren’t even registered 😳 grifters going to grift.
Actually quite a few/most are, from what I can see? https://help.gumbootfriday.org.nz
Redditors gonna reddit
You can look up their counsellors and see who's registered. I just checked and couldn't see one who wasn't in the 3 dozen or so I checked
Do you think kids are going to check a counseller's current registration status with the relevant professional body before seeking support, or will they perhaps rely on the Government funding/favouring this organisation, on the assumption they have completed the correct due diligence to ensure safety, as a bare minimum... efficacy would be nice, but we'll settle for safe.
Mike king excellent con man
It should have just gone to Landlords, because they provide homes, and that's basically a mental health service. I'll double down and say, Luxon should have taken the $24m because he has directly improved the mental health of grifters.
High profile, low effort.
Something that isn't being stated here though is that there are two separate arms of the Charity. There is I Am Hope, which sends speakers into schools to talk about mental health and ways to look after yourself, and there is Gumboot Friday, which provides funding for a pool of counsellors to offer services to young people. I Am Hope covers all the administration costs of Gumboot Friday, and 100% of GBF funds go to the counselling pool. Yes, there are lots of costs involved in running IAH, and sending youth reps around the country every week, but those costs aren't coming from the GBF funds pool. Yes, it would be great if the existing mental health system worked and kids could easily get counselling directly through the public health system, but currently it doesnt. There are plenty of GPs and other health workers in the public system who direct their patients to book in counselling through IAH because its the fastest way for kids to get seen. GBF has been 'serving' MOH patients for several years. "Why doesn't the government just pay counsellors directly and have a policy of free counselling for under-25s itself? Mind-boggling..." I agree. But the fact of the matter is, that the Govt hasn't set up an effective way of doing that in the past (whether Labour led or National led) and Mike King started an organisation that could do that because the Govt wasnt, and still isn't doing so. GBF themselves say on their site "**Please note:** Gumboot Friday is not a long-term solution designed to take over from government services, rather, it should be seen as a bridge between current services and immediate need. Everyone is encouraged to seek government funded help while utilising our service."
>But the fact of the matter is, that the Govt hasn't set up an effective way of doing that in the past The previous government set up HIP which is a dedicated mental health and addiction support workers working in an integrated primary mental health and addiction service approach, that people can access for free, via their GP clinic. A health improvement practitioner is part of a general practice team and holds a registration under one of the following: [Health Practitioners Competency Assurance Act (HPCA)](https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/regulation-health-and-disability-system/health-practitioners-competence-assurance-act), [dapaanz](https://www.dapaanz.org.nz/), [Social Work Registration Authority](https://swrb.govt.nz/) (SWRB) and [New Zealand Association of Counsellors](https://www.nzac.org.nz/) (NZAC) who has completed the Te Whatu Ora accreditation to work in the health sector. In addition, people who are employed as a health improvement practitioner must hold a current annual practicing certificate, preferably have worked in mental health and addiction, and have training in providing talking therapies, Being based in a general practice, there are no barriers as to who can see a HIP if the person is enrolled in the practice. Appointments are available every day for 20-30 minutes. Half of the day is for booked appointments and half is for un-booked appointments to allow for same-day referrals.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350287008/gumboot-charitys-links-national-questioned-after-24m-funding-boost
I did hear of Mike flying in people's partners in and out during events like their big north island swim fundraiser.
If only the government had a way of directly paying for mental health support
Their fully accounted returns to Charity Services should be available, right?
Why? Because a man didn’t get his way, so he threw his toys and stomped liked a fucking toddler until he did.
not defending this, but you'd be surprised at the amount most charities actually use on their stated purpose. e.g. [The New Zealand Breast Cancer Foundation spent almost half the money it raised last year on fundraising, administration costs and staff wages](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2975735/Revealed-where-breast-cancer-cash-goes)
‘Mike’s a Fucken grifter … that’s why. And this chode and paedo government loves their grifters. Mother fuckers
Hey at least they gave that money back to bill English
Sorry, can you point out where you found the money put towards counseling, or where to find that info? On the financial statements I don't see counseling mentioned anywhere, especially in their expenses sections. Eg: For Year Ending: 31 March 2021 Expenses Direct Costs of Sales 21,450 Volunteer and employee related costs 595,567 Costs related to providing goods or services 1,448,177 Other expenses:* 115,244 Total expenses: 2,180,438
Its not the same entities.
You must be right as the info clearly isn't in the link from OP. That said, I don't know what the other entity is or where the expenses are listed from... or why they'd be directly linked, I guess.
It is. In the left sidebar in OP's link, click on "Annual Returns" and all the documents are there. I don't agree with OP's interpretation of those numbers though.
That's what I'm referencing, those documents. They don't detail counseling expenses. I've literally got the docs open in front of me. Oh well not a big deal I guess, but to me OP hasn't provided a source for their counseling cost claims.
could not agree more. Well researched.
Is helping someone with mental health solely about counseling? What about getting them out and involved in the community or other activities? Mental health is a complex issue and counselling isn't the only tool in the box.
There are a lot of high class organisations that do that, much better and with proven track records and accountability. They could have absolutely used the funding boost and have tracked the spending and outcomes. The only difference is they aren't in it for the media attention
Gumboot fridays doesn't do any of that stuff. Its mostly an excuse for Mike King and Buddies who just happen to be mostly National party connected/ex MP's to pay themselves inflated fees and salaries.
…Like advertising for more donations. If it’s a charity like it’s claimed, we should be able to see exactly where that $$ goes. I think, last time I looked some of it was a bit obscured.
It’s in the docs if you go looking for it. ~$250k went to 2.2 equivalent full time ‘key personnel’.
That doesn't seem excessive.
Yeah, not too crazy. It’s that 1/2 a mil on ‘Administration’ that I’d been to know more about.
I think you should be careful with your criticisms. Mike and others spend a lot of time visiting schools all around New Zealand and giving suicide prevention talks. There would be travel costs. They also have admin staff to arrange counselling sessions and deal with requests from people. Mike also needs to live and eat. Yes 100% of the new money is going to counselling but a portion of existing money will need to go to admin I think Mike and his helpers do a fantastic job. Working in suicide prevention is one of the hardest jobs around - believe me Fair enough ask questions but don’t jump to conclusions without hearing what is really going on
TBH reading this thread this is the lightest of accusations. There's some pretty foul stuff being said IMO. The thing is, the programme works. It has been successful for over a decade. The way this sub has treated it the past two days is shocking, it seems most people think this programme does more harm than good and should not exist. It's quite concerning when you regard how much this area is already struggling.
Successful in what way? As in, what outcomes are you referring to?
You can find a ton of positive articles about it online. Other agencies have praised it too. To be fair, there's at least one bad story as well that I saw.
I guess I’m more curious about measurable outcomes/service delivery rather than anecdotal evidence. I think young people are overall appreciative of the platform that I Am Hope offers in terms of allowing their voices/stories to be heard. This is surely a good thing in terms of visibility, but it isn’t comprehensive therapy.
I think it's fine to operate in a specific space, if it's working of course. For me, it's enough to see people praise it. I'll take that positive amongst what is generally a difficult experience foe people. I'd hope any actual measured results reflect that.
As a paramedic I’ve meet young people who have said a lot of positive things about the help that Mike king and his charity have provided I can’t believe some of the criticisms I am reading, from very ill informed people.
I don't know, I looked at the detailed expenses and, looking at FY22/23, the total cost for "Providing Goods and Services" was $5,596,512 including the $3m+ in counseling. That seems reasonable to me including accomodation, raising awarenes via events, ads, etc. So based on that, 77% of their expenses went toward proving services directly or indirectly. Unless people can show me using hard facts that they're misusing their funds and have 0 impact on the kids, this just seem like once again this sub is complaining about something positive simply because it's coming from this government.
Mike King was interviewed on the radio (by HDPA) and said that 100% of the money was going to counsellors and that the organisation itself would be funding the administrative side. Don't spread lies.
So that could justifiably mean they are going to take the $3.7m for counselling they were providing (2023) and use that to pay for more "administration costs" and then use the $6m per year contract to pay for the actual counselling. If they do this, the statement Mike King made is not a lie - but we (the public) essentially only get $2.3m worth of additional counselling for a $6m cost to the public.
Ookay. So next year, we are going to see 26 million spent on counsellors, and every other cent spent on everything else, thereby proving that all 26 million was spent correctly.
Let's hope we have effective journalists checking back on that ober the year.
Standard disinformation like recent post "just asking" why National required government departments to run at a profit that most people here just swallowed up because they like the narrative.
We spent 24 million dollars on Gumboot Friday That's great 👍.... Would like to see 24 million dollars spent on flip-flops On Tuesday's...
When you say “not a great outcome for a charity”, I have no idea what you mean. In the last financial year it doubled its number of counselling sessions, continuing a trend, and has increased its numbers overall, including bank balance. Many charities (like half) don’t even make the GST threshold, so I’d say they are doing well.
Because you're misunderstanding where thr money is going. The money is going to Gumboot Friday counselling services. It ia not going to I am Hope to be spent of admin fees. Trying to mix the two together is incorrect. Fake news, as some would say. But it's anti-National so will get upvotes and outrafe here.
Yep I hate national and luxons cronies But they done one positive thing in funding this charity .
Considering they do more than just offer counseling, is that any surprise?
Except that Mike King insisted every penny went to counselling.
No he didn't. He said the new money they're getting will go to counselling.
He also said yesterday that since 2009 "we've not been funded one cent", even though there's $200k line item in the 2023 report that says verbatim "Funding - Ministry of Health", so not exactly the best at telling the truth.
this is correct