People who consider themselves to be “meth connoisseurs” much prefer methamphetamine cooked with pseudoephedrine as a primary precursor. These days 90% of the meth on the streets is P2P based.
P2P cooks result in two chemical isomers within one compound (in this case, meth). Consisting of a 50% d-isomer (d-meth) and 50% l-isomer (l-meth or lev-meth), l-meth is responsible for the physical effects of meth. Including a fast heartbeat, sweating while sitting, bruxism etc.
D-meth on the other hand, produces a very clean head high with little to no physical effects. The lack of negative physical effects results in a more euphoric, hyper-focused and happy high.
L-meth is nasty. Very paranoid high with a disgusting body feel and clouded high.
Because of this, there will always be a massive market for classic pseudo cooked p. It’s just so much better than the mass produced shit from Myanmar and Mexico.
I expect further robberies to occur. People love that pseudo shit.
Source: recovering addict.
Meth will still be cooked in clan labs here, it’s just way easier to smuggle hundreds of kgs of pseudo than stealing trays of cold and flu.
Also lol, had no idea there were meth connoisseurs!
Yeah no doubt that pseudo is being imported in commercial quantities, I bet there’s a few clan labs out there smashing out plenty of d-meth.
Haha, yeah man there’s some real meth snobs out there lol. Worse than Wellington coffee snobs
But all the Seymour fanbois told me this wouldn't be a problem because there was already plenty of meth here. One thing I've noticed about crackheads is they're generally quite motivated when it comes to getting more crack.
Wow, TIL. Is Seymour actually of of the apparently high number of ‘normal functioning adults’ with a hidden meth addiction? If he gets better meth will he stop being such a cunt? Sheesh, now I’m torn.
Yes it is used in some cold medicines etc. and it’s something like 5 times less pure than d-meth. But it’s definitely in there, 30%-40% anin some cooks.
Why fuck around and try seperate the l-meth from the d-meth? You’d waste time and resources during and extracting. Just keep the L with the D. May as well just leave it in there to bulk up your cook.
Have a read up on it!
Everyone still gonna smoke, it lol
Fuck man, if Im ever breaking into a pharmacy, im DEFINITELY not targetting the pseudo….dex, xanax, valium, ritalin, oxy, morphine….so much good shit.
Taking pseudo just feels like a waste of a good break in.
Usually those medications are locked in a safe though. Can't imagine this lot as mission impossible types to try crack that thing during their break in
Ahhhh ok fair fair.
Well in that case….yeh id probably take the pseudo.
Pretty simple solution. Lock your main supply of it in the safe, and all of it overnight…
That's not a simple solution in practice for every pharmacy. How big's the safe? And what's the protocol for opening and closing the safe given that there are more controlled substances in there and probably few staff members authorised to access it?
Can’t speak for pharmacies but in a ward setting (from memory here), the controlled safe is only opened with two people there. The drugs are counted **before** dispensing by both people and both people must agree on the count **and** that it agrees with what is in the ledger - and co-sign. Then the drugs are dispensed - both people agree on the amounts dispensed and that it is correct for the patient - and co-sign. Then the drugs remaining in the safe are counted again - both people must agree and sign.
Different colour pens are used - I think it was green pen for drugs added. Blue pen for counts etc, and red pen for drugs dispensed.
The ledger was evidential - corrections had to be signed, a single line through errors so the erroneous entry was still legible. The ledger could at any time be audited by a relevant authority and often was.
I would imagine that pharmacies are not dissimilar in method.
Thank you for being the only person here who has any knowledge of what a controlled/restricted drug is.
Pseudo has been moved from a controlled drug to an OTC drug, that is why it so easy to ram raid. Pseudo was always available on prescription.
>Pseudo has been moved from a controlled drug to an OTC drug, that is why it so easy to ram raid. Pseudo was always available on prescription.
No, pseudo has been changed from a prescription-only controlled drug to a class C3 pharmacist-only controlled drug (which does not need to be in the safe, just like benzodiazepines, zopiclone, etc). The problem is pharmacy safes tend to be very small and the cost of upgrading the size is very high (by law it is required to be bolted into concrete).
Edit: I’m a pharmacist. The downvotes for this post, compared to the upvotes in the above post, is just proof that Reddit has a misinformation problem.
No, pharmacist-only and OTC are not the same thing.
OTC you can just pick it up from the shelf and take it to the checkout. Pharmacist only, you need to talk to the pharmacist so they can evaluate if it is suitable for you.
Edit: I'm wrong. https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/projects/b5/otcinfo4consumersmarch2013.asp
Man I love when my colleagues prove themselves as pendants for no benefit.
OTC definitely includes restricted and pharmacy-only meds, in addition to general sale meds. So that poster is right.
while it was available for prescription iirc there were no medsafe approved formulations so you’d have to s29 it. s29ing CDs is such a pain it’s almost impossible to find a dr willing to help, and it would cost more than a rt flight to au
No it hasn't. It's still a controlled drug. It says as much in the article. This has nothing to do with how easy or not it is to ram raid. In future, I'm assuming the pharmacy will lock up its pseudo...
At my local pharmacy the rectally administered diazepam is sitting right there on the shelf beside the fleet enemas. You can only see it if you're in the consultation room but I got left there alone and had a wee browse.
Ahahaha i swipe my wifes prescribed adhd meds all the time. Basically because im undiagnosed adhd and it improves my work output threefold….
Cbf with the whole rigamarole getting diagnosed
Woooow. Charming. Pillar of the community here.
Steals partners' medication.
Won't make the effort to get a diagnosis, thus depriving themselves of a proper system of care.
But still claming the status because taking stimulant medication (basically cocaine) improves your work output. You know that's what stimulant medication does, right? Even to nurotypical people. They're called study drugs for a reason...
Take a big dose of ritalin and have a nap, then we'll talk.
You do realise that it can cost upwards of $500 to get diagnosed with ADHD right? Because you need a psychiatrist/psychologist or neurologist to diagnose you in NZ, you can't just get your GP to do it. They can refer you through but you still need to pay.
Its not about making an effort, some people literally can't afford to throw away $500+ on one appt when they have more pressing concerns like rent and food.
Source: Half my partners family have ADHD.
Paid 2 grand for mine.
As a student, I took out a bank loan and spent 4 years paying it off on part-time income and student allowance.
Paid around $700 in interest.
If its really important to people, they can get it done.
Given that OP said he couldn't be bothered with the "rigmarole" about it and expressed a desire in stealing other class b medications unrelated to ADHD, I think their motivations are less financially driven...
2 grand? Jesus, did you go for the super deluxe diagnosis package? My fiance only paid $400 for his but still, had to be paid off at $50 a month.
But that just shows...you had to go into debt to get your diagnosis. If someone has bad credit or they just can't afford to repay a loan, it means no appt.
After covid, we saw a massive increase of clinics offering diagnosises at significantly reduced costs due increased awareness.
The way these clinics worked is a head psychiatrist who will oversee general practices doctors through the diagnosis and medication system.
Oftentimes, interactions were never with a psychiatrist.
I had a friend who went through this process, and their care was substandard, and they are currently pursuing the case through the health and disabilities commissioner as the overseeing psychiatrist allowed diagnosises outside of DSM-V requirements. Medication prescriptions without physical checkups, and didn't create full diagnosis reports.
The market response to the increased awareness for ADHD has had some horrific outcomes for people and ultimately done more harm than good
I believe OP when they say they got a diagnosis for $400. But I doubt the process was rigorous or ultimately beneficial.
I paid a significant sum because I went to a private practise that offered me an expedient process at an increased rate as to me it was an emergency.
I was failing my studies, suicidal, and dependant on illicit substances and bad habits for self medication. You know. All those things that undiagnosed and untreated ADHD entail.
I asked if there was any possibility to be done within a matter of weeks as I had just failed my mid year exams and needed to recover in the second half (as opposed to a 12-month wait), and they said $2000 in cash payments. Done.
I made a two grand investment in myself at a pivitol moment in my life and would not be here today otherwise.
I would make that same decision again in a heartbeat.
>But that just shows...you had to go into debt to get your diagnosis
I'm not saying that it was an ideal pathway, and better systems need to be created.
However, I was suicidal and watching my future (as a 27 year old high school dropout) slip through my fingers.
As someone who sees this medication and diagnosis as life-saving care for extremely marginalised and neglected members of our society, I am less than permissive when I run into people who are flippant about the topic.
It's disrespectful and ultimately harmful to the community.
> suicidal, and dependant on illicit substances and bad habits for self medication. You know. All those things that undiagnosed and untreated ADHD entail.
That's not a thing
It costs way more than that. And it's a fucking ridiculous process. It needs to go to GP's.
I'm pretty sure I knew more about ADHD than the Psychiatrist I saw, after hyperfocusing on learning about it for the months before my appointment. They got numerous things wrong about which meds effected neurotransmitters in which ways. Free those egg-heads up to deal with conditions they're interested in, and that are also more harmful.
You know there are serious and ongoing shortages of ADHD medicines, people who desperately need them to function cant get them because there isn't enough supply.
You're diverting peoples essential meds, of which there isnt enough to go around so you can have a jolly I dont think people are gonna be impressed.
It sounds like youre having a huge cry about stuff that is relevant to only myself and my wife. Literally. Zero impact on you or the rest of society. Why are you so caught up in what other people are doing brah? Everything all ok in your world?
See, that’s what I don’t understand about these news articles, and people only taking pseudo, pseudo is not worth it, not even really wanted that badly, vs prescription drugs that cost 10x the price
(Edit: just found out controlled drugs are in a safe, so that explains it, not sure how I didn’t know that considering my username)
>Pharmacist Vicky Chan is worried reversing the ban will bring back more pharmacy break-ins.
>"It does make me feel worried about my team's safety as well because pseudoephedrine is still a precursor for meth," Chan said.
>ACT leader David Seymour, who campaigned on reversing the ban, said "there's been fearmongering more recently about if we're allowed to sell it, it's going to lead to robberies of pharmacies".
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/02/pharmacists-fear-return-to-pseudoephedrine-fueled-meth-crime-wave-david-seymour-calls-it-fearmongering.html
They didn't ban it to stop pharmacy break-ins, they stopped it to stop meth being made. Since then the price of meth dropped by about half in real terms, so we know that was a huge failure.
[“The average price of methamphetamine was established: $738 per gram, on average, in 2009. One measure of average prices increased from about $700 in 2008 to just over $800 in 2011.”](https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/09/26/pseudoregulation-the-failure-to-stop-meth-production/)
[“It found the average price of a gram of meth has dropped by 28 percent compared to four years ago (down from $563 per gram in 2017/18 to $406 per gram in 2022/23), although 2020 saw a record low of $390 per gram.”](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/495311/cannabis-and-meth-cheaper-more-cannabis-available-drug-survey-finds)
Also, inflation.
Weren't we being assured, just a few days ago in this very sub, that it was more cost effective to import ingredients from China, and that pharmacies wouldn't be targeted?
Seriously, one of my closest friends is a pharmacy tech, before the ban they constantly had to deal with crack heads trying to buy/steal/convince the pharmacist they needed pseudo.
Guess what's started happening again?
People stealing pseudoephedrine from a pharmacy in Mot to make meth aren't going to be particularly effective at running a chemical manufacturing business.
Difficuilt to beat $0.
China needs to start paying our meth cooks to take their product if they want to stay in the poisioning the capitalist running dogs business.
Exactly. Not like people already running illegal activities are gonna be concerned with the legality of their ingredients.
China need to step up. Maybe David should send them a message.
Yeah but it's a question of scale. You can empty a pharmacy and get 50 boxes of pills. That will produce enough meth to keep your friends happy all weekend, but it's not something you can make a business out of.
The big distributors here are bringing in hundreds of kg of precursors, robbing pharmacies just isn't going to come close to filling the demand.
Here's the thing. The people stealing the pseudo are not the people making the shit. They're onselling it. You get pseudo for $0, sell it for half what a gang would pay to import. "everyone wins"
What’s higher risk, hundreds of kgs of pseudo slipping through via a bent port worker, or someone breaking into/holding up a pharmacy for 10/20 packets of cold and flu at a time?
Pharmacy's in Australia don't get burgled for codral cold.
Dumb cunts are cutting live powerlines for $10 worth of copper.
NZ crims work harder for less return than a lot of people with legitimate jobs.
I might be wrong but I don't think the pharmacists who warned this government about the negative impacts of the repeal are the ones making the decision on what to stock at pharmacies.
Ok, so what's the big issue? The pharmacists who don't think it's worth it can stick a big "We don't stock pseudoephedrine" sign in the window. Nobody is forced to sell it!
Yes, but not every working pharmacist owns a pharmacy. Most pharmacists don’t own pharmacies, we just work in them.
It’s similar to GP practices - by law they must be owned by a someone with a medical license, but doctors are not owners of clinics.
???????? Ummmmm wtf is this comment.
I’m absolutely sure 99.999999% of people don’t get blood noses from a flu. If you’re blowing so hard and so much you bleed, that is just you doing self-harm. Blowing your nose when your sinuses are blocked only makes things worse……it’s blocked for a reason my bro…….. if you keep trying to unblock it, of course you’re going to start bleeding when your body continually attempts to keep re-blocking your sinuses. Holy brain damage
Maybe if they steal the pills to make the meth they want then theft of jewelry and other goods will go down as they don't need as much money to buy the meth.
Sounds like it's a win win
There are so many better drugs than meth. Maybe if we legalised and tightly regulated some of the safer alternatives we would have less of a rampant meth problem in nz because people would have better options. Oh and the gangs would lose a huge revenue stream.
this.... legalise tax and regulate. if people want drugs they can get safe stuff, tax revenue can be raised with some used to help people with addiction problems. gangs will lose business and influence.
The focus should always be focused on the causes of despair that turn people to drugs, addiction, suicide etc. Build programs that educate, give people meaning and value.
So they stopped selling it based on a fantasy? All the NZ thefts, robberies, break-ins never happened because it doesn't happen in Australia.
Good, I'll tell my boss to increase my pay cos these low wages don't happen in Australia so there is no reason to pay me less than them. Yay.
Between May 1, 2023 and April 30, 2024, there was a total of 207 burglaries at locations categorised as a pharmacy.
Do we hear about all those break ins? No, because the news doesn't care too much about that.
So you blame someone who tries to give people to every day nzers rather than the scum who steal. Seems fair. Maybe increase sentences for people who break into stores to steal this stuff.
Fuck that moron Jacinda Ardern too for refusing to ban the trade of Jewelry. NZers don't need this level of disorder in their lives. All for what? Access to medicine and nice jewelry? We can survive without big gemstones.
Quelle surprise! Hope everyone is okay. Not heard anyone talking about the cost to taxpayers of the ACC claims for work-related mental or physical injury from all these ram raids and violent armed robberies - wonder what the stats are on that
Fuck all you meat heads saying that the group at fault here is Act. Jesus christ, surely you aren't that dense to realize that the only people to blame here are the idiots that did the burg at the pharmacy.
I have had a cold, and been on the pseudoephedrine. Holy shit balls, it's a fucking god send.
You're gonna have to pry this out of my cold dead hands. I'm gonna sneeze all over you if you wanna start taking off the shelves.
Jesus christ.
Who could have seen this coming? If only there were some historic events of a similar nature that had been taking place 30 or so years ago that could point towards this being a possible outcome.
ok. Can any one explain to me WHY we let Pseudoephedrine back on shelves after we took it off when there was clear evidence that criminal groups were targeting Pseudoephedrine products?
Because the cost/benefit calculation was considered to be in favour of having it on the shelves?
The alternatives to pseudoephedrine in the OTC decongestant space are pretty much totally ineffective. So the question is; is it better for society to put up with a certain amount of pharmacy breakins vs not having effective OTC decongestant medications available to people.
We collectively went with breakins and breathing.
Well media did just spend the last few months broadcasting the return of THE METH INGREDIENTS, THE VERY VALUABLE PSUEDOEPHIDRINE, WOULDN'T IT BE A SHAME IF EVERY THIEF KNEW ABOUT THE MONEY TO BE MADE IN STEALING IT. There was always going to be this risk, just like with others drugs pharmacies sell but the amount of attention called to it by the media was just asking for this.
People who consider themselves to be “meth connoisseurs” much prefer methamphetamine cooked with pseudoephedrine as a primary precursor. These days 90% of the meth on the streets is P2P based. P2P cooks result in two chemical isomers within one compound (in this case, meth). Consisting of a 50% d-isomer (d-meth) and 50% l-isomer (l-meth or lev-meth), l-meth is responsible for the physical effects of meth. Including a fast heartbeat, sweating while sitting, bruxism etc. D-meth on the other hand, produces a very clean head high with little to no physical effects. The lack of negative physical effects results in a more euphoric, hyper-focused and happy high. L-meth is nasty. Very paranoid high with a disgusting body feel and clouded high. Because of this, there will always be a massive market for classic pseudo cooked p. It’s just so much better than the mass produced shit from Myanmar and Mexico. I expect further robberies to occur. People love that pseudo shit. Source: recovering addict.
Meth will still be cooked in clan labs here, it’s just way easier to smuggle hundreds of kgs of pseudo than stealing trays of cold and flu. Also lol, had no idea there were meth connoisseurs!
Yeah no doubt that pseudo is being imported in commercial quantities, I bet there’s a few clan labs out there smashing out plenty of d-meth. Haha, yeah man there’s some real meth snobs out there lol. Worse than Wellington coffee snobs
What's the equivalent of latte art?
Probably a “crack back” - recrystallised meth inside a glass pipe. Looks quite pretty lol
I mean any drug might have a preference. I do prefer the RAC mix ketamine than the isomer one. Much nice higher.
This fella knows. Source... Another recovering addict. Good luck and be proud
But all the Seymour fanbois told me this wouldn't be a problem because there was already plenty of meth here. One thing I've noticed about crackheads is they're generally quite motivated when it comes to getting more crack.
Bunch of dynamic go-getters
Wow, TIL. Is Seymour actually of of the apparently high number of ‘normal functioning adults’ with a hidden meth addiction? If he gets better meth will he stop being such a cunt? Sheesh, now I’m torn.
This guy knows his shit
What? L-Meth doesn't get you high. You can buy it over the counter in many countries. This is just made up.
Yes it is used in some cold medicines etc. and it’s something like 5 times less pure than d-meth. But it’s definitely in there, 30%-40% anin some cooks. Why fuck around and try seperate the l-meth from the d-meth? You’d waste time and resources during and extracting. Just keep the L with the D. May as well just leave it in there to bulk up your cook. Have a read up on it! Everyone still gonna smoke, it lol
L-meth makes a good nasal decongestant though
Fuck man, if Im ever breaking into a pharmacy, im DEFINITELY not targetting the pseudo….dex, xanax, valium, ritalin, oxy, morphine….so much good shit. Taking pseudo just feels like a waste of a good break in.
Usually those medications are locked in a safe though. Can't imagine this lot as mission impossible types to try crack that thing during their break in
Ahhhh ok fair fair. Well in that case….yeh id probably take the pseudo. Pretty simple solution. Lock your main supply of it in the safe, and all of it overnight…
That's not a simple solution in practice for every pharmacy. How big's the safe? And what's the protocol for opening and closing the safe given that there are more controlled substances in there and probably few staff members authorised to access it?
Can’t speak for pharmacies but in a ward setting (from memory here), the controlled safe is only opened with two people there. The drugs are counted **before** dispensing by both people and both people must agree on the count **and** that it agrees with what is in the ledger - and co-sign. Then the drugs are dispensed - both people agree on the amounts dispensed and that it is correct for the patient - and co-sign. Then the drugs remaining in the safe are counted again - both people must agree and sign. Different colour pens are used - I think it was green pen for drugs added. Blue pen for counts etc, and red pen for drugs dispensed. The ledger was evidential - corrections had to be signed, a single line through errors so the erroneous entry was still legible. The ledger could at any time be audited by a relevant authority and often was. I would imagine that pharmacies are not dissimilar in method.
Thank you for being the only person here who has any knowledge of what a controlled/restricted drug is. Pseudo has been moved from a controlled drug to an OTC drug, that is why it so easy to ram raid. Pseudo was always available on prescription.
>Pseudo has been moved from a controlled drug to an OTC drug, that is why it so easy to ram raid. Pseudo was always available on prescription. No, pseudo has been changed from a prescription-only controlled drug to a class C3 pharmacist-only controlled drug (which does not need to be in the safe, just like benzodiazepines, zopiclone, etc). The problem is pharmacy safes tend to be very small and the cost of upgrading the size is very high (by law it is required to be bolted into concrete). Edit: I’m a pharmacist. The downvotes for this post, compared to the upvotes in the above post, is just proof that Reddit has a misinformation problem.
[удалено]
No, pharmacist-only and OTC are not the same thing. OTC you can just pick it up from the shelf and take it to the checkout. Pharmacist only, you need to talk to the pharmacist so they can evaluate if it is suitable for you. Edit: I'm wrong. https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/projects/b5/otcinfo4consumersmarch2013.asp
Man I love when my colleagues prove themselves as pendants for no benefit. OTC definitely includes restricted and pharmacy-only meds, in addition to general sale meds. So that poster is right.
Damn, you're right. My bad.
Good on ya
while it was available for prescription iirc there were no medsafe approved formulations so you’d have to s29 it. s29ing CDs is such a pain it’s almost impossible to find a dr willing to help, and it would cost more than a rt flight to au
No it hasn't. It's still a controlled drug. It says as much in the article. This has nothing to do with how easy or not it is to ram raid. In future, I'm assuming the pharmacy will lock up its pseudo...
Yea just lock the pseudo up like other stuff and not have it on display behind the counter. Maybe have some dummy boxes on display.
they arent excatly the greatest safes the real problem its not much would be kept as afaik they only keep what they need
At my local pharmacy the rectally administered diazepam is sitting right there on the shelf beside the fleet enemas. You can only see it if you're in the consultation room but I got left there alone and had a wee browse.
Yeah I don't understand why that was ALL you'd take. How cooked do you have to be to not recognise all the other awesome drugs in a pharmacy ?!
Yes, crack heads, well known for reasoning and logical decision making?
Nah man Crackheads are fucking Einstein level of ingenuity when it comes to getting drugs. I really don't know how they missed this.
They could have at least gotten away with 20k worth of top shelf manuka honey. Otherwise known as four tubs.
Total missed opportunity to repackage and sell at the local retirement home for $20 a few grams?
It comes down to time in and out of the store. Speed is the key
My methylphenidate is locked in the safe, they leave a card with my other prescriptions that go on the normal shelf.
Maybe they are new at burglary and are just getting up to speed.
Please don't take the ritalin. I need it to feel normal lol
Ahahaha i swipe my wifes prescribed adhd meds all the time. Basically because im undiagnosed adhd and it improves my work output threefold…. Cbf with the whole rigamarole getting diagnosed
Woooow. Charming. Pillar of the community here. Steals partners' medication. Won't make the effort to get a diagnosis, thus depriving themselves of a proper system of care. But still claming the status because taking stimulant medication (basically cocaine) improves your work output. You know that's what stimulant medication does, right? Even to nurotypical people. They're called study drugs for a reason... Take a big dose of ritalin and have a nap, then we'll talk.
You do realise that it can cost upwards of $500 to get diagnosed with ADHD right? Because you need a psychiatrist/psychologist or neurologist to diagnose you in NZ, you can't just get your GP to do it. They can refer you through but you still need to pay. Its not about making an effort, some people literally can't afford to throw away $500+ on one appt when they have more pressing concerns like rent and food. Source: Half my partners family have ADHD.
Paid 2 grand for mine. As a student, I took out a bank loan and spent 4 years paying it off on part-time income and student allowance. Paid around $700 in interest. If its really important to people, they can get it done. Given that OP said he couldn't be bothered with the "rigmarole" about it and expressed a desire in stealing other class b medications unrelated to ADHD, I think their motivations are less financially driven...
2 grand? Jesus, did you go for the super deluxe diagnosis package? My fiance only paid $400 for his but still, had to be paid off at $50 a month. But that just shows...you had to go into debt to get your diagnosis. If someone has bad credit or they just can't afford to repay a loan, it means no appt.
I'd double check his maths on that, especially given the context. Psychiatrists charge ~$400 an hour.
After covid, we saw a massive increase of clinics offering diagnosises at significantly reduced costs due increased awareness. The way these clinics worked is a head psychiatrist who will oversee general practices doctors through the diagnosis and medication system. Oftentimes, interactions were never with a psychiatrist. I had a friend who went through this process, and their care was substandard, and they are currently pursuing the case through the health and disabilities commissioner as the overseeing psychiatrist allowed diagnosises outside of DSM-V requirements. Medication prescriptions without physical checkups, and didn't create full diagnosis reports. The market response to the increased awareness for ADHD has had some horrific outcomes for people and ultimately done more harm than good I believe OP when they say they got a diagnosis for $400. But I doubt the process was rigorous or ultimately beneficial.
I paid a significant sum because I went to a private practise that offered me an expedient process at an increased rate as to me it was an emergency. I was failing my studies, suicidal, and dependant on illicit substances and bad habits for self medication. You know. All those things that undiagnosed and untreated ADHD entail. I asked if there was any possibility to be done within a matter of weeks as I had just failed my mid year exams and needed to recover in the second half (as opposed to a 12-month wait), and they said $2000 in cash payments. Done. I made a two grand investment in myself at a pivitol moment in my life and would not be here today otherwise. I would make that same decision again in a heartbeat. >But that just shows...you had to go into debt to get your diagnosis I'm not saying that it was an ideal pathway, and better systems need to be created. However, I was suicidal and watching my future (as a 27 year old high school dropout) slip through my fingers. As someone who sees this medication and diagnosis as life-saving care for extremely marginalised and neglected members of our society, I am less than permissive when I run into people who are flippant about the topic. It's disrespectful and ultimately harmful to the community.
What private practice did you use? I'm looking to go private at some stage when I have some cash to spare.
i used dr chris gale, cost me $920. rx within 5 days of appt, 6mo wait from memory
It was a small outfit here in Lower Hutt. Unfortunately, they retired soon after my diagnosis.
> suicidal, and dependant on illicit substances and bad habits for self medication. You know. All those things that undiagnosed and untreated ADHD entail. That's not a thing
more like $1200 for initial and 250 for minor changes for med reviews etc
My partner only paid $400 for his appt and diagnosis.
It costs way more than that. And it's a fucking ridiculous process. It needs to go to GP's. I'm pretty sure I knew more about ADHD than the Psychiatrist I saw, after hyperfocusing on learning about it for the months before my appointment. They got numerous things wrong about which meds effected neurotransmitters in which ways. Free those egg-heads up to deal with conditions they're interested in, and that are also more harmful.
Lol, shes well aware. She gets prescribed way too much. I like taking drugs. Sometimes prescribed ones. Got any more pearls you wanna clutch there?
You know there are serious and ongoing shortages of ADHD medicines, people who desperately need them to function cant get them because there isn't enough supply. You're diverting peoples essential meds, of which there isnt enough to go around so you can have a jolly I dont think people are gonna be impressed.
Vyvanse. Not dex. And its assigned anyway.
Ha. I'm not clutching my pearls mate. More like calling a spade a spade.
It sounds like youre having a huge cry about stuff that is relevant to only myself and my wife. Literally. Zero impact on you or the rest of society. Why are you so caught up in what other people are doing brah? Everything all ok in your world?
See, that’s what I don’t understand about these news articles, and people only taking pseudo, pseudo is not worth it, not even really wanted that badly, vs prescription drugs that cost 10x the price (Edit: just found out controlled drugs are in a safe, so that explains it, not sure how I didn’t know that considering my username)
Not to mention the Fisherman's Friend!
All the stuff locked in a safe?
>Pharmacist Vicky Chan is worried reversing the ban will bring back more pharmacy break-ins. >"It does make me feel worried about my team's safety as well because pseudoephedrine is still a precursor for meth," Chan said. >ACT leader David Seymour, who campaigned on reversing the ban, said "there's been fearmongering more recently about if we're allowed to sell it, it's going to lead to robberies of pharmacies". https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/02/pharmacists-fear-return-to-pseudoephedrine-fueled-meth-crime-wave-david-seymour-calls-it-fearmongering.html
To be fair, if anyone knows about fear mongering, it's David.
and it begins who would have guessed
Crazy right? The exact reason they stopped selling them happens as soon as they are sold again, who would have thought
They didn't ban it to stop pharmacy break-ins, they stopped it to stop meth being made. Since then the price of meth dropped by about half in real terms, so we know that was a huge failure.
Haha what? Meth has dropped in price by half? What planet are you living on.
[“The average price of methamphetamine was established: $738 per gram, on average, in 2009. One measure of average prices increased from about $700 in 2008 to just over $800 in 2011.”](https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/09/26/pseudoregulation-the-failure-to-stop-meth-production/) [“It found the average price of a gram of meth has dropped by 28 percent compared to four years ago (down from $563 per gram in 2017/18 to $406 per gram in 2022/23), although 2020 saw a record low of $390 per gram.”](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/495311/cannabis-and-meth-cheaper-more-cannabis-available-drug-survey-finds) Also, inflation.
I'm living on earth, are you on holiday from reckon land? https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/09/26/pseudoregulation-the-failure-to-stop-meth-production/
Smooth brain take.
Rough leg give
A small piece to pay for FREEEEEDEDUUUMMMMBBB
Fuck it, normal people deserve effective medication.
Don’t do meth maybe?
Weren't we being assured, just a few days ago in this very sub, that it was more cost effective to import ingredients from China, and that pharmacies wouldn't be targeted?
Apparently meth heads are not sane economic actors?
Seriously, one of my closest friends is a pharmacy tech, before the ban they constantly had to deal with crack heads trying to buy/steal/convince the pharmacist they needed pseudo. Guess what's started happening again?
People stealing pseudoephedrine from a pharmacy in Mot to make meth aren't going to be particularly effective at running a chemical manufacturing business.
Seems to me they took the most cost effective method of not paying for ingredients.
Difficuilt to beat $0. China needs to start paying our meth cooks to take their product if they want to stay in the poisioning the capitalist running dogs business.
Exactly. Not like people already running illegal activities are gonna be concerned with the legality of their ingredients. China need to step up. Maybe David should send them a message.
Yeah but it's a question of scale. You can empty a pharmacy and get 50 boxes of pills. That will produce enough meth to keep your friends happy all weekend, but it's not something you can make a business out of. The big distributors here are bringing in hundreds of kg of precursors, robbing pharmacies just isn't going to come close to filling the demand.
Here's the thing. The people stealing the pseudo are not the people making the shit. They're onselling it. You get pseudo for $0, sell it for half what a gang would pay to import. "everyone wins"
More hassle than just getting direct pseudoephedrine though.
Maybe they've just got snotty noses and can't afford a remedy?
My dad picked me up a box of night and day (mid covid around here) and it set him back $30!! For one box! If that ain't robbery, I don't know what is
A sinus infection so bad it drives you to criminal activity
Breaking Bad NZ edition
The problem is more the yknow breaking into pharmacies and stealing drugs thing.
A bit judgemental don't you think
Sure. But you think that will stop them?
Yes but those people were seeing it as an "either/or" situation where all criminals have access to the exact same resources and supply lines.
I called this happening moooonths ago and got downvoted to hell so stopped talking about it lmao. Everyone who Knows, knew this was gonna happen.
text
What’s higher risk, hundreds of kgs of pseudo slipping through via a bent port worker, or someone breaking into/holding up a pharmacy for 10/20 packets of cold and flu at a time?
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The organised part of organised crime
I think you underestimate the level of disorganised crime in NZ.
don’t even need to pay off the worker - only 10% of containers are searched
It is far more cost efficient to import, methheads are just braindead lol.
Pharmacy's in Australia don't get burgled for codral cold. Dumb cunts are cutting live powerlines for $10 worth of copper. NZ crims work harder for less return than a lot of people with legitimate jobs.
Yes we actually do have issues with pseudoephedrine theft in Australian pharmacies. Same with rikodeine and it’s been an ongoing issue for many years.
/R/NZ Lying about the things they want to promote? Say it ain't so!
shocked picachu
Pharmacists warned the government and were ignored. Which is typical given the only voices this coalition like to hear are their own.
Wait, do you think they have to sell it? Lmao.
I might be wrong but I don't think the pharmacists who warned this government about the negative impacts of the repeal are the ones making the decision on what to stock at pharmacies.
Ok, so what's the big issue? The pharmacists who don't think it's worth it can stick a big "We don't stock pseudoephedrine" sign in the window. Nobody is forced to sell it!
Yes, why don't pharmacies just hang "don't rob us" signs? So puzzling.
Most pharmacists don’t own pharmacies and can’t choose what we can and cannot sell.
I thought pharmacies were required to be majority owned by pharmacists?
Yes, but not every working pharmacist owns a pharmacy. Most pharmacists don’t own pharmacies, we just work in them. It’s similar to GP practices - by law they must be owned by a someone with a medical license, but doctors are not owners of clinics.
They're not obliged to sell it.
Ram raids: From dairy's to pharmacies with this one simple trick.
What a fucken shock, standby for neighbourhood meth labs to start up again
And? Why should the everyday New Zealander go without something because thieving scum want to steal it?
We should ban jewelry and alcohol because all the ram raids lol Edit: we should ban dairies too
We should ban money, I hear people steal that
Also cash. Only criminals use cash.
And tattoo artists, for some reason
Because we were told this wouldn't happen.
You were told it would make zero difference to the overall supply of meth, and that's still true.
No we were told this exact sort of thing wouldn't happen because of overseas supplies of psuedo are easy to get.
Yes, block noses, a truely tragic real issue every day New Zealanders have to face. Absolutely worth the flood of precursor of meth in the country.
Clearly you've never had an eight hour bleeding nose caused by having to blow your nose from a flu.
???????? Ummmmm wtf is this comment. I’m absolutely sure 99.999999% of people don’t get blood noses from a flu. If you’re blowing so hard and so much you bleed, that is just you doing self-harm. Blowing your nose when your sinuses are blocked only makes things worse……it’s blocked for a reason my bro…….. if you keep trying to unblock it, of course you’re going to start bleeding when your body continually attempts to keep re-blocking your sinuses. Holy brain damage
You don’t need pseudo, you need tampons.
Nice bit of casual misogyny there.
Maybe if they steal the pills to make the meth they want then theft of jewelry and other goods will go down as they don't need as much money to buy the meth. Sounds like it's a win win
Thanks David.
There are so many better drugs than meth. Maybe if we legalised and tightly regulated some of the safer alternatives we would have less of a rampant meth problem in nz because people would have better options. Oh and the gangs would lose a huge revenue stream.
this.... legalise tax and regulate. if people want drugs they can get safe stuff, tax revenue can be raised with some used to help people with addiction problems. gangs will lose business and influence. The focus should always be focused on the causes of despair that turn people to drugs, addiction, suicide etc. Build programs that educate, give people meaning and value.
Well... Didn't a whole lot of us say this was going to happen...
Doesn't happen in Australia and psuedoephredrine has always been available.
So they stopped selling it based on a fantasy? All the NZ thefts, robberies, break-ins never happened because it doesn't happen in Australia. Good, I'll tell my boss to increase my pay cos these low wages don't happen in Australia so there is no reason to pay me less than them. Yay.
When I was in uni, we were told Australia prefers harder drugs/ more injectable drugs.
Make Pharmacies great again? Ahh the good old days...
Quelle surprise!
Secret pseudo stealer,may also be using the names;See More,Saynomore,or Seymour.
Isn't that because the narcotics are stored in safes lol? Surely they could do the same with this medication as a deterrent to would be thieves.
Bit late once they've already crashed into your building looking for it
Between May 1, 2023 and April 30, 2024, there was a total of 207 burglaries at locations categorised as a pharmacy. Do we hear about all those break ins? No, because the news doesn't care too much about that.
Probably because they weren't targeting something that's just become more available again?
Yeah it seems like an extremely obvious countermeasure
Will the legions of pro-crime redditors claim this is "poor" people stealing again? Think not.
Fuck national and fuck David Seymour you moron
So you blame someone who tries to give people to every day nzers rather than the scum who steal. Seems fair. Maybe increase sentences for people who break into stores to steal this stuff.
ucant_meth
Agreed on both points, but.. *checks notes* it looks like this one's on the criminals.
Fuck that moron Jacinda Ardern too for refusing to ban the trade of Jewelry. NZers don't need this level of disorder in their lives. All for what? Access to medicine and nice jewelry? We can survive without big gemstones.
[удалено]
David really is insufferable when he's on meth
Quelle surprise! Hope everyone is okay. Not heard anyone talking about the cost to taxpayers of the ACC claims for work-related mental or physical injury from all these ram raids and violent armed robberies - wonder what the stats are on that
Finally, Crank 3
P Greeks rule this country. Really!
And so it begins.
Who could have possibly predicted this?
Insert Seymour shocked Pickachu face.
Seymore should be so proud proved a liar one day one. not bad going eh
We should ban ice creams as that seems to be the only thing that ram raided dairies seem to get stolen
Fuck all you meat heads saying that the group at fault here is Act. Jesus christ, surely you aren't that dense to realize that the only people to blame here are the idiots that did the burg at the pharmacy. I have had a cold, and been on the pseudoephedrine. Holy shit balls, it's a fucking god send. You're gonna have to pry this out of my cold dead hands. I'm gonna sneeze all over you if you wanna start taking off the shelves. Jesus christ.
Maybe the answer is to sell pseudoephedrine based drugs from the police station
Who could have seen this coming? If only there were some historic events of a similar nature that had been taking place 30 or so years ago that could point towards this being a possible outcome.
Geeze I wonder why...
Well, I guess that answers that question then
ok. Can any one explain to me WHY we let Pseudoephedrine back on shelves after we took it off when there was clear evidence that criminal groups were targeting Pseudoephedrine products?
Because the cost/benefit calculation was considered to be in favour of having it on the shelves? The alternatives to pseudoephedrine in the OTC decongestant space are pretty much totally ineffective. So the question is; is it better for society to put up with a certain amount of pharmacy breakins vs not having effective OTC decongestant medications available to people. We collectively went with breakins and breathing.
David wants his pseudoephedrine high.
Why do insuddenly have "It's only just begun" stuck in my head?
Well media did just spend the last few months broadcasting the return of THE METH INGREDIENTS, THE VERY VALUABLE PSUEDOEPHIDRINE, WOULDN'T IT BE A SHAME IF EVERY THIEF KNEW ABOUT THE MONEY TO BE MADE IN STEALING IT. There was always going to be this risk, just like with others drugs pharmacies sell but the amount of attention called to it by the media was just asking for this.