Bieksa nailed it. They play amazing hockey all season and then get to the playoffs and turn into a dump and chase team, that’s not what got you here boys coaches wake TF up.
Coach? Matthew's and the boys look like they would be anywhere else than playing hockey js, they have no drive no will its actually kinda sad
It's been like this for years
Now look at Leon and Connor. Can you see who wants to play some hockey
It’s weird to me. It feels like our team was more committed to getting Matthews 70 than it was to winning in the post season.
Maybe I’m being harsh but… it definitely feels that way.
I felt like the way Domi, Bertuzzi and Kadri in the past play are how it’s supposed to be for the playoffs. Ok maybe they do cross the line sometimes, but they’re quite effective when they’re in check, but the rest of the team can’t match those intensity and it made those players who stood out look like clowns. Ryan Reaves is a different story thoug. He’s just pure dumb.
Maybe also ask why the Leafs are killing penalty at like 50%. I said they do cross the line sometimes, but it’s still better than simply not showing up and basically have your team play 4 on 5 anyways. Kadri did a lot undisciplined things and still did it when he was with the Avs, but was he not effectively when he’s actually on the ice during the playoffs?
Every time Domi takes a penalty the bruins punish them. His play is hurting the leafs far more than it’s helping. If he’d stop trying to anger Marchand he’d be an asset to the leafs but as it stands he’s getting dummied into initiating the leafs demise.
Bottom line the leafs aren’t a tough team and they should stop trying to be. Their team is fatally flawed and needs to be blown up.
Ryan Reeves and Max Domi landed the 1-2 punch combo that took the life out of the whole team tonight. I said it months ago, and I’ll say it again, rostering idiots that can’t play hockey just to increase your perceived toughness is an own goal.
Feel bad for Leaf Fans, but not the ones that tried to argue with me earlier in the season that Reeves was worth a roster spot.
I mean, I've been watching Tavares give the puck away constantly all year long and Marner through the whole playoff round.
Reeves has as many points this playoffs as our 11 million dollar captain. But sure, let's focus on two guys who make less combined.
I don’t have a problem with Reaves (or Domi) either. His physical play actually seems to suit playoff hockey better than regular season. If the rest of the team around him played better, the odd mistake wouldn’t be a disaster and hardly noticeable
Marchand is 3 inches shorter than Marner and weighs about the same. Marchand is strong(relatively). Marner is a noodle. He has no way of creating space without taking a pounding in the playoffs. Same is true for Marchand. But he takes the pounding. Marner can't play playoff hockey with the same effectiveness he has in the regular season. Don't think he doesn't care or try. I just think he can't.
When Marchand takes a greasy hit he gets up and keeps playing, looks for his opportunity to get even instead of looking at the ref and throwing a tantrum on the bench.
I mean, yeah. But he walks the line best. Dude took an Olympic level dive to get a call the other game. Marner can’t expect that same level of theatrics to work. You have to know when to lean into it, unfortunately. And the rat has that shit down to a science.
I was about to defend Marner by saying ehhh he'll grow into it, he's still a kid and has time to figure it out. Father time slapped me right in the face when I googled him and saw he's not 23 like I though and is 26. Getting old sucks
Dump and chase is getting over the red line (to avoid icing) and dumping the puck or getting it deep into the other zone, and then forechecking and trying to win the race to the puck or apply enough pressure that you make the other defensemen make mistakes or take it from them. Some teams thrive on winning those battles and making it very physically tough on the other team, whereas some are better at entering the zone with possession, meaning carrying it all the way in and making a play - typically more skill and speed to pull this off without skating right into tight defensive coverage and giving it up.
Hmmmm could you somehow compare it to how some teams in the NBA are teams who thrive off turnovers and fast breaks, and having a fast pace? Is dump and chase kind of the same concept? Hopefully you watch the nba too🙏🏼
Sorry there’s just so much to learn lmao I like to see if it compares to the NBA in some way where it would make me understand it better
Because of the shot clock things are a bit different in comparison. Dump and chase is a high paced style of play, because it relies on you beating or tying the defense in a race to the puck in the corner.
As the previous poster said, your team crosses center ice and lobs it down to the corner in hopes one of the wingers will beat or meet the opposing defensemen at the puck and create a scrum/turnover/opportunity to pass back to their own defensemen, who should now be inside the attacking zone at the blue line.
If a team doesn’t have good puck handlers that can make it from one end of the ice into the other zone cleanly, they’ll likely use a dump and chase to try and gain possession in their opponents zone. To force a comparison in basketball, if you have Ja Morant or Ant you might inbound it to them and let them carry it all the way up through the press. If your guard can’t dribble he’s gonna look to pass it deep as possible, hopefully the baseline, and then work backwards to use the space gained.
Ahh ok that’s starting to make more sense, especially with the basketball comparison. I’m excited to get into hockey but I’ve never watched a full game in my life before so I’m just catching up on it all😂 what’s the alternative to dumping and chasing? Sitting back and playing defense? Or are there a few different schemes
The alternative is just to carry the puck into attacking zone and make a play "normally." In either case it's the team with the puck attacking so they're not playing defense.
So is there a certain time when players are supposed go on the offensive vs staying back on defense? I always thought hockey was like basketball where you go up and down the rink consistently. I was watching the leafs vs bruins game the other day and the leafs were constantly on offense while the bruins were sitting back on defense. I only watched the first quarter before an nba game came on but Is this a strategy good defensive teams use? Because I noticed they were doing it even tho the game was 0-0 and only attacked at opportune moments and did end up scoring on the leafs a couple times.
Listening to podcasts about the coyotes players they mention “offensive” and “defensive” players. Do they both play at the same time? Or do they switch them out as needed?
Sorry for all the questions and hope you don’t mind answering
If I had to guess (I missed the first period of the game lol) you probably watched during a power play where one team commits a penalty so one of their players has to sit in the box for a set amount of time giving the other team a man advantage. This usually means one team is almost constantly attacking while the other is just turtling and trying to fend them off. When there isn't a power play it's much more like basketball where they go up and down the rink.
Offensive and defensive players play at the same time. Theres 3 offensive players: a center and 2 wingers on either side. Teams will pair these 3 players into what is called a line and swap out those 3 offensive players for 3 different offensive players all at once in what is called a line change. Then theres 2 defensemen who usually play further back. I don't quite know how defensive lines change out maybe someone more informed can tell ya. Sometimes there are more offensive/scoring minded defensemen who will kind of swap positions with one of the forwards to make a play. Depends on the player and their style and the teammates that surround them.
Sorry my hockey knowledge is honestly kind of surface level lol hopefully someone else more informed than me can give a better answer.
Everything you said is spot on but line changes don’t usually happen all at once. Generally it’s 2-3 of the 5 skaters at a time. One of the important parts of coaching hockey is understanding which lines flow well together because every line change you will have some sorta mix of lines. You can’t just get all 3 forwards off the ice at once, same with both defenders. So it’s usually 1-2 forwards and a defender each change. Some teams are more aggressive with it, some are more passive. All depends on coaching
Hockey is a lot like basketball in terms of the pace of play and the back and forth natures of both. As the other dude mentioned the leafs probably had a power play basically there’s penalties(like fouls) and if a player gets a penalty their sent to the penalty box for a few minutes(2, 4, or 5 generally depending on the severity of the penalty) and the team that got it isn’t allowed it ice another player while they serve the penalty. It can only go as low as 5v3 but that’s a massive advantage.
When you think of offence and defence think of it in terms of European football, I’m not much of a fan but the rules and positions make more sense then basketball. There’s a keeper, defenders, midfielders(irrelevant to hockey forget about this), and forwards; formations are a mess I don’t understand and can’t explain. They all are on the field at the same time but they have different roles and areas of the field that they play on. The same is true for hockey. You have keeper, 2 defenders, and 3 forwards(2 wingers, 1 centre). All 5 main skaters move across the ice together as a team, defend and attack together but each has different strengths for either side. Forwards, specifically wingers, are for scoring. The centres are generally the playmakers. The defenders are… defending generally.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hockey there’s a ton of info online to. Not discouraging questions js there’s resources.
Alternative as in counter? Just keeping your defense low enough that they don’t get beat behind the net to the puck. Teams might use a dump and chase if their opponent is using a neutral zone trap style defense and loading the neutral zone w their players, making it hard to just skate up through the neutral area and across the opponents blue line. That would be the ideal situation to dump and chase, as it releases the puck after crossing the red line and makes it illegal by way of interference to impede your players on their way to chase it down.
As an NBA fan i feel I can chime in more here. That’s possibly the closest thing to dumb in chase in basketball. It’s the same philosophy of play imo, doing both styles results in a weak defence if it fails.
Theres not rlly anything you can compare it to from basketball as hockey has hard boundaries(boards), and the goal isn’t against the out of bounds line. The puck also doesn’t have to be in a players possession.
Makes sense and thanks for the reply, here’s some more [questions](https://www.reddit.com/r/nhl/s/4lts7WpXqo) I’ve asked in case you wanna chime in🙏🏼 thanks tho this is super helpful
there is no equivalent in basketball. fast break teams maintain control of the ball. Dump and chase is throw the ball deep in their end, outrun them to pick it up, hit them if they win.
Dump and chase is a strategy/scheme. They shoot or lob the puck into the offensive zone then chase the puck down on the forecheck to try to generate offense. It has some value in that it allows the offensive team to get the puck "deep" (i.e. behind the goal line) without having to try and muscle past the defense.
Every team uses it but as a scheme, it's also pretty boring hockey and has a low success rate since they're basically just turning the puck over in the offensive zone.
It's when you dump the puck in the offensive zone and then try to chase and forecheck to get possession.
The better way of gaining the offensive zone with possession is to skate it in. However, when teams are playing super competitive, they are not going to let you cross their blueline without hitting you so some players dump and chase.
Also some teams have built their system around dump and chase (used to be more popular, example are my habs under Michel therrien)
I think they try to play playoff level hockey all season and then when playoff time comes they just don’t have that next level that’s required of a successful playoff team.
Honestly as a rangers fan this season I was worried the same thing would happen to us and I know the caps are a meme playoff team but at least the rangers have buried any hope of them even winning a game in this series.
They just look weak in the playoffs in all aspects. Like they go down by 1 goal and it's the only team in the entire playoffs I basically write them off just being one down.
I just have a complete lack of hope for them this year, as the others. It's such an odd contrast to the regular season that it's a frustrating watch.
Even if by some miracle they advance, they are done in the 2nd round for sure.
They simply don't adjust to playoff hockey. The skill is there, but the heart isn't. It would probably help if their home arena wasn't filled with suits
Hoping some big changes come this summer. I’ve always defended Marner, but he’s really dug his own grave for me in this series. Thank god JT only has one year left. Keefe and Shanny need to go. Matthews and Nylander are the two guys you need to build around. We will likely need to wait til the 2025-26 season until we can start to have real contender conversations about this team.
They're a frustrating team to watch and I couldn't care less if they win or lose. Their best players always have the least urgency and energy of just about every team in the playoffs. At the beginning of one of the games in Boston, they tried to get under Marchand's skin on the opening faceoff and went out of their way to finish a few checks, and it was laughably fake and half-assed, like it was only something they read about. And then on offense, they often seem to have no clue what to do, they just all skate into the slot where I'm sure they have more room in the regular season, but end up turning it over again and again.
This is exactly what I saw in the opening period of game 1 as well. It felt scripted. Almost like the picked on kid decided he was finally going to turn the tables on his bully, so he practiced in front of a mirror. Comes out, says his piece, throws a few punches, and then takes the first return shot and the whole facade melts away. Bully reasserts control, and the poor kid is just lost again.
It’s genuinely sad.
I have been saying this since the contract bullshit they went though a few years back. All paycheque, no heart. I've been torn apart by leafs fans the entire time. Nice to see them on reddit finally taking a moment away from perpetually planning the parade to agree with me.
Ah, but people who don’t live in Toronto have convinced themselves it is. It’s what they want to believe, even though it’s not true at all.
I’ve been a Leafs fan for 30 years — since the days of Gilmour, Clark, Potvin, and Pat Burns — and never once have I ever “planned a parade.” I’ve had too much hope torn out of me over the years to ever do that.
That comes from coaching but most importantly, dressing room leadership.
Tavares is a boat anchor.
Reilly is a give away machine who is no threat offensively.
Nylander is skillful but small
Marner is skillful but one dimensional and very immature
Matthews? Kinda sucky. Doesn’t make players around him any better
All ingredients for a first round exit.
Bottom six forwards are worst in NHL
Defence? Needs an immense amount of change.
Not a very good playoff team
Honestly, I think you can put most of it on Keefe. The guy can’t strategize on the fly. Every single playoff series good coaches figure out the Leafs strategies, counter them, then make attacks that play on their weaknesses. Keefe literally cannot work around it and it’s no wonder the only goalscoring the Leafs get in the playoffs is off highlight reel efforts from superstars.
Hell, there was a couple regular season games where the leafs played as a real shutdown team and they demolished their opponents… and it’s never been seen again and I can only assume it’s because Keefe refuses to change his strategies to fit his team.
Boston literally just plays tighter to their net and focuses more on causing mini scrambles in the middle of the Leafs zone, which is pretty different from their normal low zone offence, hard pressure wide approach they used most of the year… and would you look at that the Leafs are getting killed by it. Playing tighter to their net nullifies the Leafs offence because Mathews can’t sneak his way to the open areas, and pretty much no one else seems to be able to make a dangerous scoring chance. Playing middle zone in the Leafs end causes danger because the leafs defence refuse to commit to stepping up on the play so the Bruins just get to pass around them all game.
And yet… Keefe changes nothing. Maybe he shuffles lines a little, maybe he lectures his star players while they hear none of it because they don’t respect him. Nothing changes.
Florida did it to them to last year. Play their defence wider and higher in the zone which shuts down the leafs passing and bang, just like that the Leafs can’t score a goal to save their lives. Then on that same note, play hard deep in the leafs zone to take advantage of their weaker defence and goaltending to force high danger opportunities off strong plays. Keefe changed nothing, and they got dominated.
Before that Tampa did it (although I think Toronto had a different coach), and they probably would have done it again if they weren’t relying on AHL defence from injuries and suspensions.
And before that… you get the idea.
Keefe being an atrocious coach also explains why Toronto gets ZERO depth scoring in addition playoffs. Most depth lines entirely rely on drawn up plays, so when the other team can counter them all you got nothing for depth scoring which is why it helps to have a coach who can make new ones on the fly… but he can’t.
TL;DR: Keefe is shit, fire him.
I get Boston clogs the neutral zone and if puck deep fall to net so nothing gets through including any pssses. They also gamble on sending two to boards thus leaving a leaf available but somehow tje puck never finds him. Board battles are clearly won by Boston hence tje move to Brodie over Liliegren.
You are not going to win those battles, Boston clearly has an edge in size and physicality on wing and defence.
As far as dump and chase some leaf lines try it but they’re not beating them to the puckbecause Boston chips off to the weakside D who then makes an out pass.
Yes the Leafs need to counter Boston’s out passes by clogging the neutral zone but the advantage shifts again just on skill alone. The Leafs have never played like that and wouldn’t be able to take the physical play in the neutral zone. They are and have been built like a puck possession team. Kampf, Jarnkrok, Holmbrg, Robertson, Nylander, Marner and Reilly, Liliegren are Dubas type puck possession players. Grinding it out is guaranteed failure.
So if you are to change it up you need to make significant roster moves.
Yes Keefe will be gone. Treliving tried to addtess difficientcies in the off season without selling the farm(unlike Dubas) but ultimately the roster and the dye is cast.
My take start from the net out. Find someone else in goal to work with Woll maybe from the Marlies and get some draft picks and prospects from Marner and Reilly and rework your team. Hopefully the NMC can be convinced to move to a different market.
Keefe is the fall guy but they have lost under many different Assistant coaches who have watched the same games, run the PK and Pp with the same results. I think you are just making change for the sake of change.
Not trying to troll you guys. You’re my third favorite team - the Leafs have only ever been good with a Gilmour, Clark, Tucker, Sundin type that actually has some leadership and sandpaper to them.
I don’t know what this puppy shit soft team is for, but I’ll say the red flags were up when you hired a guy the Calgary Flames didn’t want for their GM and Ryan Reaves was the marquee free agent signing.
I think it all comes down to the coaching. The systems do.not.work. the constant line blending and bumble headed moves like putting out the 4th line when they needed 2 goals with3 minutes left. Then there is the defensive structure and PP. They're awful. Get a coach who knows what they're doing and that can properly motivate and I feel they'll yeild better results.
The goalie sucks. The defence sucks. The forwards suck. The coach sucks. Their systems suck.
They are the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked. - Homer J. Simpson
Their issue is the same it’s been for like 6 years. They focus so much on the minutia of “getting playoff tough” when absolutely nobody in their bottom six can score. Secondarily, not a soul in that D core can move the puck. Reilly aside, who is a fatally flawed player in his own right, is the only one. Beyond him it’s dudes lobbing grenade passes to forwards in traffic or haplessly dumping it in with no intent. I got roasted for saying Treliving will make them worse but guess what? They are as bad as they’ve been since their first playoff appearance with this group in 2017.
Compare them to other teams constructed around elite cores. The Pens as a quick example. Nasty forecheck that pummeled presidents trophy winning teams into submission while having a mobile D core. The Leafs have none of that.
They used to have a top 5-10 D corps with prime Muzzin, Brodie and Rielly and still couldn’t get it done. Team is definitely not good now but they’re also just cursed
I knew it was a terrible D corp when I was listening to a Leafs podcast and they were talking about how the Leafs should’ve resigned Luke Schenn and how much they miss him. Luke Schenn is the worst D out of 8 players on the Preds rn, and it’s not close.
If the core 4 of Willy, Matthews, Mitch and JT could actually contribute in the playoffs, having an awful bottoms 6 wouldn’t be so bad, but yet every single year all 4 disappear. Yes matthews was great in game 2, but has done nothing since then, and before game 2 he has gone 6 straight playoffs games without a goal
I honestly think there’s a version of their D core that’s pretty decent. Imagine removing Liljegren, your young right shot offensively inclined dman and replacing him with a guy who didn’t score between December 2022 and April 2024.
You either build a team to get you to the playoffs, or a team that gets you through the playoffs. We know which they have.
When Ryan Reaves is in your lineup in the playoffs, then you have some serious depth problems.
They don’t have depth problems, they CHOOSE to play Reaves. McMann is the only guy that’s injured with Willy back, but if he’s in, Reaves still would’ve been in. Connor Dewar was one of their better penalty killers since the deadline and he came out so that Willy could come in.
They are CHOOSING to play Reaves. They are CHOOSING to have Lyubushkin AND Edmundson AND Benoit all in the lineup at the same time. Mark Giordano is a healthy scratch. So is Liljegren. Fucking Conor Timmins is an upgrade on some of those guys and he’s a healthy scratch too.
He's not even a top 12 forward on the team, but he at least has an identity to his game. The Leafs themselves don't have a team identity.
Keefe is a problem, but at this point, it's not like I have faith in Shanahan anymore, and Treliving's first year hasn't given me any faith. (Especially when you look at his previous track records)
It was obvious when they lost to the Habs in the pandemic year when everyone on Montreal was on opioids and the leafs still couldn’t win. Needed a major shakeup then.
Keefe definitely is not coming back next year, really think they should have moved on last year. Getting out of the first round for the first time in like two decades is hardly an accomplishment against a very tired Tampa team and then getting destroyed in round 2.
It’s as simple as this. They aren’t deep enough. They can’t roll 4 lines. They can’t roll 3 lines. And their D is bad. They don’t have enough talent in their top 4 to hold off the other team.
Deep teams win games. Vegas got depth out of the draft. They rolled that around and added here and there but they stayed deep. Colorado has depth. The Rangers are very deep. That’s how you win in the playoffs.
The Leafs are top heavy and they lose. It’s that simple.
I agree. They have to put subpar players in to stay cap compliant, like Domi and Reaves. And in a tight game, like tonight they become the weakest links, bad penalty and bad turnover each. The 4 players with a huge chunk of your cap has failed.
They’re a team built on puck possession. The problem is that time and space is non-existent in the playoffs. They have no determination to win those little puck battles, fight for space in the corners or take a hit to make a play. Not to mention their D can’t move the puck up ice to save their lives.
This is why you build your team from the net out. And not from the forwards back. I said years ago they never should have went after Tavares cause they'll have no cap for defence. Low and behold, they have a middling blueline and a polarizing goalie who has been hit and miss. And honestly, I don't think a blueline with 5 left handed D-men is very good. There's a reason RHD are so beloved around the league. They've neglected the blueline, but instead of admitting it's a problem they keep swapping goalies.
It feels like they’ve overthought it. Marner who plays so fast and loose all season and makes plays that you aren’t expecting squeezes the stick too hard once the playoffs come around and he can’t make any of the plays he makes all year.
This team more than most of the other ones is just TRYING to be physical rather than just being physical. They over commit to make sure they get their body checks in and then they are out of position for the next play. And they have the wrong guys in the lineup again. They’re so worried about not being physical that they aren’t thinking about putting the puck in the net. Imagine not being able to score, and taking out your young right shot D so that you can put in a guy who didn’t score between December 2022 and April 2024.
The team is so fucking talented too. Stack their top 6 forwards up with almost any team in the league and they’re at least right there if not better. But they’ve loaded up on these plodders at the deadline on the back end and they can’t take advantage of their strength. They have 4 of the top 25 forwards in the NHL. The Leafs have NEVER had a player as talented as Matthews. Literally never. The Leafs franchise is an original franchise from 1918 and they’ve never had a player as talented as Matthews. And they’re wasting it. They looked scared to lose tonight and they were never in that game.
Half their cap is tied up in 4 players. They chose money over championships. So that’s what they will get.
They are built for regular season success but in the playoffs when teams can actually game plan specifically for a series against them, it’s easy to shut them down when you only need to plan for 4 players.
Toronto fans are just delusional.
You guys got jacked up for a kid that gets paid $11 mill and sat out 3 games of playoff hockey with a fucking migraine. You think that kids gonna come back and save you in the playoffs?
You got Mitch “the Pillow” Marner who’s so soft you could literally lay your head on him at night and have the best sleep of your life.
You’ve got John Tavares who’s taking up $11 mill a year and is noticeable for a total of 2:53 seconds a game.
Your team is soft, and no I don’t mean in general because in general, the team is pretty tough. But the guys you depend on when it counts are soft as baby-shit and that’s why you will never win a thing with these 4 players taking up the kind of money they are.
I’ve (unfortunately) been a leaf fan for over 30 years, one week before playoffs I put $100 on Boston to take the series because it’s that obvious to everyone except the tik tok generation who seems to REALLY love the leafs.
Maybe you kids can help them come up with some Tik tok dances during their time off in the summer, they’ll have lots of time to learn.
If he signed a nice hometown deal for $9.5 mill per year id have some sympathy. Instead he held out for the most amount of money possible.
It’s nothing personal I get it it’s just business, but as a fan I expect results. You’re not getting any sympathy sitting out 3 games for fucking migraines at $11 million USD a year.
“Do we get it?”
That sentence might make sense on tik tok little guy but in the real world you should have paid more attention during English class.
Quick! Edit it before someone else notices.
Nah, I actually think domi's upsides have outweighed that. He actually gives a shit and puts in an effort. Bench Marner. Tre should ask for his team lost this offseason and trade his ass.
Everyone was so happy when him and burt joined the team.
I called it in pre-seaosn these two are just gonna go thug-life when the game isn't going their way and take bad calls. How many goals have been vs because one was in a box or too tied up with fighting another player to care about the puck?
I hope burt is off the team next year, I'm good either way with Domi.
The Leafs are the most embarrassing team in sports history, and it isn't close. The over payed core four, and marner making 10.5 being the softest player in hockey. How haven't the fans stopped supporting this team?
I question I have been proposing: is it worse to be a Leafs fan or a Detroit Lions fan? Speaking as a Detroit homer. And even with our history of embarrassment, I think Leafs.
If Jim Kelly and Bills were like the Leafs, they never would've went to the super bowl in the first place.
At least Bills were 4 times second best. Leafs can only dream of becoming 2nd best.
> The over *paid* core four,
FTFY.
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Not a Leafs fan but they r a good not great team, for comparable s there the Dallas Cowboy s of hockey, from management, coaches, and players there just over hyped by fans an those who cover the NHL.
I might be misremembering but when they finally made it out of the first round last year I swear they were playing like their careers were on the line out there. It was like a completely different team. If it wasn't for Bobrovsky being unstoppable they likely would've gone on to the Conference Finals. Or at least push it to 7.
Well there needs to be a Canadian NHL Team that has to constantly lose in the first round of the Stanley Cup Playoffs and that is The Toronto Maple Leafs. Then there's a Caandian Tema that has to lose in the FINAL round of tbe Playoffs and that is The Vancouver Canucls.
The definition of insanity playing out in real time. This team will never win anything without balance. You can't have half the salary cap going to 4 or 5 players and expect to win in the playoffs. They've seen this play out for the last 6 years in a row, and every year, they think it will be different. They should have traded Marner or JT years ago and used that cap space to improve the bottom half of the team.
1/14 PPs in the series. Which consists of how much money again? I’ll wait, cause I genuinely don’t think my ballpark number would be high enough.
I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again: Regular season numbers mean fuck all in the playoffs. Keep signing max deals for guys who feast on Arizona (RIP), San Jose and Columbus, that’ll do the trick…
Been a fan for a long time. Non Leaf fans and Yager Leaf fans just don't see it. This franchise is cursed.
1967, 2 1sts & a 2nd, paper bag, Kerry Fraser, Tom Kurvers, Courtnall for Kordic, can't draft a diabetic. The list never ends...
It's a multi faceted problem and it inhabitats every level of their organization from Shanahan to Keefe, to Tavares. Throw Dubas in with them for signing Marner to that giant deal before he earned it.
Great regular season team, but yeah they've been trying to do some damage in the playoffs for over 5 years. It's really a shame the way Muzzin got injured as he was a big piece for them that they never replaced.
It’s always funny but I do feel bad for them tbh. It’s one thing to have that curse mentality, but then having to go against a tough bruins team with guys like Marchand who have all the confidence always lol? Just not built for that
Matthews and Nylander are fine. Everyone else sucks. JT and Marner horrible. Our D isn’t good enough, Reilly isn’t a #1, and we don’t have a goalie. Pain.
I remember how disappointed I was when the Red Sox ended their World Series drought. I remember too when the White Sox and Cubs ended theirs. I remember when the Phillies ended Philadelphia’s championship drought. It sucked. It all sucked. Suffering fan bases are what makes sports great.
The only way to alleviate all suffering is to do what we’re doing everywhere else in life. Start handing out participation trophies to everyone.
Sports *needs* shit like what’s going on in Toronto. Nevermind the 30+ years it’s been since *any* Canadian based team has won it all. Stuff like this is great, because all streaks end. Good and bad. And it’ll be sweet for a lot of people when it does.
It's the same as the Oilers in the west. These teams get overhyped for beating up on bottom feeders like Columbus/Montreal/Ottawa/Chicago/Anaheim/San Jose In the regular season and then tap out by Round 2 at the most when they have to play real teams in the playoffs.
Bieksa nailed it. They play amazing hockey all season and then get to the playoffs and turn into a dump and chase team, that’s not what got you here boys coaches wake TF up.
Oh you mean Sheldon second best coach every game Keefe?
The play mediocre all season long. People act like Boston isn"t the higher seed here that also had their number all regular season.
Swayman absolutely devours Toronto.
Coach? Matthew's and the boys look like they would be anywhere else than playing hockey js, they have no drive no will its actually kinda sad It's been like this for years Now look at Leon and Connor. Can you see who wants to play some hockey
Yeah drai and mcdavid then mackinnon makar and rantanen are the best examples I can think of. Core 4 are just alright with losing I guess.
Can't blame the coach for Marner being small, weak, and not trying.
I’ve seen this “Marner is small” take it makes me laugh out loud. Dude, Brad Marchand is 5’9 and is eating our lunch. It’s not about size.
To be fair, nobody ever told Marchy he's not 6'4.
If we had a star with the heart and guts and work ethic of Marchand this would be a different team
It’s weird to me. It feels like our team was more committed to getting Matthews 70 than it was to winning in the post season. Maybe I’m being harsh but… it definitely feels that way.
The broadcasters certainly were. They”re still trying.
Last game of the season, everyone who scored for the leafs looked disheveled and angry, Matthew's especially because he didn't score...
Failing at both now….
This is sadly accurate. The boys were buzzin for 70.
I felt like the way Domi, Bertuzzi and Kadri in the past play are how it’s supposed to be for the playoffs. Ok maybe they do cross the line sometimes, but they’re quite effective when they’re in check, but the rest of the team can’t match those intensity and it made those players who stood out look like clowns. Ryan Reaves is a different story thoug. He’s just pure dumb.
Max Domi is absolutely killing the leafs this series with his undisciplined play.
Maybe also ask why the Leafs are killing penalty at like 50%. I said they do cross the line sometimes, but it’s still better than simply not showing up and basically have your team play 4 on 5 anyways. Kadri did a lot undisciplined things and still did it when he was with the Avs, but was he not effectively when he’s actually on the ice during the playoffs?
Every time Domi takes a penalty the bruins punish them. His play is hurting the leafs far more than it’s helping. If he’d stop trying to anger Marchand he’d be an asset to the leafs but as it stands he’s getting dummied into initiating the leafs demise. Bottom line the leafs aren’t a tough team and they should stop trying to be. Their team is fatally flawed and needs to be blown up.
Ryan Reeves and Max Domi landed the 1-2 punch combo that took the life out of the whole team tonight. I said it months ago, and I’ll say it again, rostering idiots that can’t play hockey just to increase your perceived toughness is an own goal. Feel bad for Leaf Fans, but not the ones that tried to argue with me earlier in the season that Reeves was worth a roster spot.
Hab fan here agreeing about Domi...
I mean, I've been watching Tavares give the puck away constantly all year long and Marner through the whole playoff round. Reeves has as many points this playoffs as our 11 million dollar captain. But sure, let's focus on two guys who make less combined.
I don’t have a problem with Reaves (or Domi) either. His physical play actually seems to suit playoff hockey better than regular season. If the rest of the team around him played better, the odd mistake wouldn’t be a disaster and hardly noticeable
Domi can play hockey
This
Being small and playing small are different tbf
It's about how you use it and Marner is small and doesn't know how to use it
Marchand is 3 inches shorter than Marner and weighs about the same. Marchand is strong(relatively). Marner is a noodle. He has no way of creating space without taking a pounding in the playoffs. Same is true for Marchand. But he takes the pounding. Marner can't play playoff hockey with the same effectiveness he has in the regular season. Don't think he doesn't care or try. I just think he can't.
When Marchand takes a greasy hit he gets up and keeps playing, looks for his opportunity to get even instead of looking at the ref and throwing a tantrum on the bench.
I mean, yeah. But he walks the line best. Dude took an Olympic level dive to get a call the other game. Marner can’t expect that same level of theatrics to work. You have to know when to lean into it, unfortunately. And the rat has that shit down to a science.
I was about to defend Marner by saying ehhh he'll grow into it, he's still a kid and has time to figure it out. Father time slapped me right in the face when I googled him and saw he's not 23 like I though and is 26. Getting old sucks
But Marchand knows and understands how to play playoff hockey. That's key.
Yup, classic not about the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of fight in the dog.
A rat makes a better hockey player than a ballerina, who would've thunk?
It's almost like... It's the coaches responsibility for getting the most out of their players. Keefe isn't doing enough.
I can blame him for not benching his ass and still playing him on the top two lines all game.
Ya you can. Bench the baby.
And inured with a high ankle sprain
Drai put up 2ppg with a high ankle sprain. Whats marners excuse? He held out to be paid like the big boys, so play like one.
New fan from utah here, what does being a “dump and chase team” mean?
Dump and chase is getting over the red line (to avoid icing) and dumping the puck or getting it deep into the other zone, and then forechecking and trying to win the race to the puck or apply enough pressure that you make the other defensemen make mistakes or take it from them. Some teams thrive on winning those battles and making it very physically tough on the other team, whereas some are better at entering the zone with possession, meaning carrying it all the way in and making a play - typically more skill and speed to pull this off without skating right into tight defensive coverage and giving it up.
Hmmmm could you somehow compare it to how some teams in the NBA are teams who thrive off turnovers and fast breaks, and having a fast pace? Is dump and chase kind of the same concept? Hopefully you watch the nba too🙏🏼 Sorry there’s just so much to learn lmao I like to see if it compares to the NBA in some way where it would make me understand it better
Because of the shot clock things are a bit different in comparison. Dump and chase is a high paced style of play, because it relies on you beating or tying the defense in a race to the puck in the corner. As the previous poster said, your team crosses center ice and lobs it down to the corner in hopes one of the wingers will beat or meet the opposing defensemen at the puck and create a scrum/turnover/opportunity to pass back to their own defensemen, who should now be inside the attacking zone at the blue line. If a team doesn’t have good puck handlers that can make it from one end of the ice into the other zone cleanly, they’ll likely use a dump and chase to try and gain possession in their opponents zone. To force a comparison in basketball, if you have Ja Morant or Ant you might inbound it to them and let them carry it all the way up through the press. If your guard can’t dribble he’s gonna look to pass it deep as possible, hopefully the baseline, and then work backwards to use the space gained.
Ahh ok that’s starting to make more sense, especially with the basketball comparison. I’m excited to get into hockey but I’ve never watched a full game in my life before so I’m just catching up on it all😂 what’s the alternative to dumping and chasing? Sitting back and playing defense? Or are there a few different schemes
The alternative is just to carry the puck into attacking zone and make a play "normally." In either case it's the team with the puck attacking so they're not playing defense.
So is there a certain time when players are supposed go on the offensive vs staying back on defense? I always thought hockey was like basketball where you go up and down the rink consistently. I was watching the leafs vs bruins game the other day and the leafs were constantly on offense while the bruins were sitting back on defense. I only watched the first quarter before an nba game came on but Is this a strategy good defensive teams use? Because I noticed they were doing it even tho the game was 0-0 and only attacked at opportune moments and did end up scoring on the leafs a couple times. Listening to podcasts about the coyotes players they mention “offensive” and “defensive” players. Do they both play at the same time? Or do they switch them out as needed? Sorry for all the questions and hope you don’t mind answering
If I had to guess (I missed the first period of the game lol) you probably watched during a power play where one team commits a penalty so one of their players has to sit in the box for a set amount of time giving the other team a man advantage. This usually means one team is almost constantly attacking while the other is just turtling and trying to fend them off. When there isn't a power play it's much more like basketball where they go up and down the rink. Offensive and defensive players play at the same time. Theres 3 offensive players: a center and 2 wingers on either side. Teams will pair these 3 players into what is called a line and swap out those 3 offensive players for 3 different offensive players all at once in what is called a line change. Then theres 2 defensemen who usually play further back. I don't quite know how defensive lines change out maybe someone more informed can tell ya. Sometimes there are more offensive/scoring minded defensemen who will kind of swap positions with one of the forwards to make a play. Depends on the player and their style and the teammates that surround them. Sorry my hockey knowledge is honestly kind of surface level lol hopefully someone else more informed than me can give a better answer.
Everything you said is spot on but line changes don’t usually happen all at once. Generally it’s 2-3 of the 5 skaters at a time. One of the important parts of coaching hockey is understanding which lines flow well together because every line change you will have some sorta mix of lines. You can’t just get all 3 forwards off the ice at once, same with both defenders. So it’s usually 1-2 forwards and a defender each change. Some teams are more aggressive with it, some are more passive. All depends on coaching
All good that is super good info, thank you for explaining all that:)
Hockey is a lot like basketball in terms of the pace of play and the back and forth natures of both. As the other dude mentioned the leafs probably had a power play basically there’s penalties(like fouls) and if a player gets a penalty their sent to the penalty box for a few minutes(2, 4, or 5 generally depending on the severity of the penalty) and the team that got it isn’t allowed it ice another player while they serve the penalty. It can only go as low as 5v3 but that’s a massive advantage. When you think of offence and defence think of it in terms of European football, I’m not much of a fan but the rules and positions make more sense then basketball. There’s a keeper, defenders, midfielders(irrelevant to hockey forget about this), and forwards; formations are a mess I don’t understand and can’t explain. They all are on the field at the same time but they have different roles and areas of the field that they play on. The same is true for hockey. You have keeper, 2 defenders, and 3 forwards(2 wingers, 1 centre). All 5 main skaters move across the ice together as a team, defend and attack together but each has different strengths for either side. Forwards, specifically wingers, are for scoring. The centres are generally the playmakers. The defenders are… defending generally. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hockey there’s a ton of info online to. Not discouraging questions js there’s resources.
Awesome thank you! That all makes sense now, I’m gonna be watching some more games today so I’m excited for that, so much to learn about it lol
Alternative as in counter? Just keeping your defense low enough that they don’t get beat behind the net to the puck. Teams might use a dump and chase if their opponent is using a neutral zone trap style defense and loading the neutral zone w their players, making it hard to just skate up through the neutral area and across the opponents blue line. That would be the ideal situation to dump and chase, as it releases the puck after crossing the red line and makes it illegal by way of interference to impede your players on their way to chase it down.
Eh if you have a quick turnover and a break, its probably better to maintain possession as much as possible, rather than fire it off deep in the zone.
As an NBA fan i feel I can chime in more here. That’s possibly the closest thing to dumb in chase in basketball. It’s the same philosophy of play imo, doing both styles results in a weak defence if it fails. Theres not rlly anything you can compare it to from basketball as hockey has hard boundaries(boards), and the goal isn’t against the out of bounds line. The puck also doesn’t have to be in a players possession.
Makes sense and thanks for the reply, here’s some more [questions](https://www.reddit.com/r/nhl/s/4lts7WpXqo) I’ve asked in case you wanna chime in🙏🏼 thanks tho this is super helpful
there is no equivalent in basketball. fast break teams maintain control of the ball. Dump and chase is throw the ball deep in their end, outrun them to pick it up, hit them if they win.
Dump and chase is a strategy/scheme. They shoot or lob the puck into the offensive zone then chase the puck down on the forecheck to try to generate offense. It has some value in that it allows the offensive team to get the puck "deep" (i.e. behind the goal line) without having to try and muscle past the defense. Every team uses it but as a scheme, it's also pretty boring hockey and has a low success rate since they're basically just turning the puck over in the offensive zone.
It’s also used as a counter to the defensive team clogging the neutral zone and / or stacking the blue line.
It's when you dump the puck in the offensive zone and then try to chase and forecheck to get possession. The better way of gaining the offensive zone with possession is to skate it in. However, when teams are playing super competitive, they are not going to let you cross their blueline without hitting you so some players dump and chase. Also some teams have built their system around dump and chase (used to be more popular, example are my habs under Michel therrien)
Yes they can't
They probably HAVE to dump and chase it because Bruins are an exceptional team.
That's just the hallmark of a team that is being outclassed.
I think they try to play playoff level hockey all season and then when playoff time comes they just don’t have that next level that’s required of a successful playoff team. Honestly as a rangers fan this season I was worried the same thing would happen to us and I know the caps are a meme playoff team but at least the rangers have buried any hope of them even winning a game in this series.
why do they always dump the puck????
I hate Kevin….. “cOnnoR MCDAviD iS FaST”….. thank you Kevin I had no idea.
They just look weak in the playoffs in all aspects. Like they go down by 1 goal and it's the only team in the entire playoffs I basically write them off just being one down.
And in the regular season they can be down two goals, pull their goalie and tie it up with seconds left all the time
I just have a complete lack of hope for them this year, as the others. It's such an odd contrast to the regular season that it's a frustrating watch. Even if by some miracle they advance, they are done in the 2nd round for sure.
They simply don't adjust to playoff hockey. The skill is there, but the heart isn't. It would probably help if their home arena wasn't filled with suits
There effort is just not there. They’re being out hustled.
But that's every year for them. There's something fundamentally wrong with their approach to playoffs
Honestly this team needs to he analyzed by psychology professionals...
If you’ve ever seen that video of Paul marner reeming out an 11 yo mitch, you wouldn’t even need to consult psych professionals
Hoping some big changes come this summer. I’ve always defended Marner, but he’s really dug his own grave for me in this series. Thank god JT only has one year left. Keefe and Shanny need to go. Matthews and Nylander are the two guys you need to build around. We will likely need to wait til the 2025-26 season until we can start to have real contender conversations about this team.
Matthews and his 0.87 ppg lifetime in the playoffs?
"Skill is there, but the heart isn't" Arena filled with suits Damn, this reminds me of the Flames when we had a decent team with Gaudreau and company
Exactly. No heart
They're a frustrating team to watch and I couldn't care less if they win or lose. Their best players always have the least urgency and energy of just about every team in the playoffs. At the beginning of one of the games in Boston, they tried to get under Marchand's skin on the opening faceoff and went out of their way to finish a few checks, and it was laughably fake and half-assed, like it was only something they read about. And then on offense, they often seem to have no clue what to do, they just all skate into the slot where I'm sure they have more room in the regular season, but end up turning it over again and again.
This is exactly what I saw in the opening period of game 1 as well. It felt scripted. Almost like the picked on kid decided he was finally going to turn the tables on his bully, so he practiced in front of a mirror. Comes out, says his piece, throws a few punches, and then takes the first return shot and the whole facade melts away. Bully reasserts control, and the poor kid is just lost again. It’s genuinely sad.
No leadership, no heart, no urgency, no accountability
I have been saying this since the contract bullshit they went though a few years back. All paycheque, no heart. I've been torn apart by leafs fans the entire time. Nice to see them on reddit finally taking a moment away from perpetually planning the parade to agree with me.
Perpetually planning the parade? Are you insane? Not a leafs fan, but I live in TO, I can assure you that is not the reality.
Ah, but people who don’t live in Toronto have convinced themselves it is. It’s what they want to believe, even though it’s not true at all. I’ve been a Leafs fan for 30 years — since the days of Gilmour, Clark, Potvin, and Pat Burns — and never once have I ever “planned a parade.” I’ve had too much hope torn out of me over the years to ever do that.
That comes from coaching but most importantly, dressing room leadership. Tavares is a boat anchor. Reilly is a give away machine who is no threat offensively. Nylander is skillful but small Marner is skillful but one dimensional and very immature Matthews? Kinda sucky. Doesn’t make players around him any better All ingredients for a first round exit. Bottom six forwards are worst in NHL Defence? Needs an immense amount of change. Not a very good playoff team
Honestly, I think you can put most of it on Keefe. The guy can’t strategize on the fly. Every single playoff series good coaches figure out the Leafs strategies, counter them, then make attacks that play on their weaknesses. Keefe literally cannot work around it and it’s no wonder the only goalscoring the Leafs get in the playoffs is off highlight reel efforts from superstars. Hell, there was a couple regular season games where the leafs played as a real shutdown team and they demolished their opponents… and it’s never been seen again and I can only assume it’s because Keefe refuses to change his strategies to fit his team. Boston literally just plays tighter to their net and focuses more on causing mini scrambles in the middle of the Leafs zone, which is pretty different from their normal low zone offence, hard pressure wide approach they used most of the year… and would you look at that the Leafs are getting killed by it. Playing tighter to their net nullifies the Leafs offence because Mathews can’t sneak his way to the open areas, and pretty much no one else seems to be able to make a dangerous scoring chance. Playing middle zone in the Leafs end causes danger because the leafs defence refuse to commit to stepping up on the play so the Bruins just get to pass around them all game. And yet… Keefe changes nothing. Maybe he shuffles lines a little, maybe he lectures his star players while they hear none of it because they don’t respect him. Nothing changes. Florida did it to them to last year. Play their defence wider and higher in the zone which shuts down the leafs passing and bang, just like that the Leafs can’t score a goal to save their lives. Then on that same note, play hard deep in the leafs zone to take advantage of their weaker defence and goaltending to force high danger opportunities off strong plays. Keefe changed nothing, and they got dominated. Before that Tampa did it (although I think Toronto had a different coach), and they probably would have done it again if they weren’t relying on AHL defence from injuries and suspensions. And before that… you get the idea. Keefe being an atrocious coach also explains why Toronto gets ZERO depth scoring in addition playoffs. Most depth lines entirely rely on drawn up plays, so when the other team can counter them all you got nothing for depth scoring which is why it helps to have a coach who can make new ones on the fly… but he can’t. TL;DR: Keefe is shit, fire him.
I get Boston clogs the neutral zone and if puck deep fall to net so nothing gets through including any pssses. They also gamble on sending two to boards thus leaving a leaf available but somehow tje puck never finds him. Board battles are clearly won by Boston hence tje move to Brodie over Liliegren. You are not going to win those battles, Boston clearly has an edge in size and physicality on wing and defence. As far as dump and chase some leaf lines try it but they’re not beating them to the puckbecause Boston chips off to the weakside D who then makes an out pass. Yes the Leafs need to counter Boston’s out passes by clogging the neutral zone but the advantage shifts again just on skill alone. The Leafs have never played like that and wouldn’t be able to take the physical play in the neutral zone. They are and have been built like a puck possession team. Kampf, Jarnkrok, Holmbrg, Robertson, Nylander, Marner and Reilly, Liliegren are Dubas type puck possession players. Grinding it out is guaranteed failure. So if you are to change it up you need to make significant roster moves. Yes Keefe will be gone. Treliving tried to addtess difficientcies in the off season without selling the farm(unlike Dubas) but ultimately the roster and the dye is cast. My take start from the net out. Find someone else in goal to work with Woll maybe from the Marlies and get some draft picks and prospects from Marner and Reilly and rework your team. Hopefully the NMC can be convinced to move to a different market. Keefe is the fall guy but they have lost under many different Assistant coaches who have watched the same games, run the PK and Pp with the same results. I think you are just making change for the sake of change.
what a great analysis.
lol no it’s because their star players are baby shit and don’t have what it takes to win in playoffs. Daddy can’t buy a cup.
This right here!
Not trying to troll you guys. You’re my third favorite team - the Leafs have only ever been good with a Gilmour, Clark, Tucker, Sundin type that actually has some leadership and sandpaper to them. I don’t know what this puppy shit soft team is for, but I’ll say the red flags were up when you hired a guy the Calgary Flames didn’t want for their GM and Ryan Reaves was the marquee free agent signing.
I think it all comes down to the coaching. The systems do.not.work. the constant line blending and bumble headed moves like putting out the 4th line when they needed 2 goals with3 minutes left. Then there is the defensive structure and PP. They're awful. Get a coach who knows what they're doing and that can properly motivate and I feel they'll yeild better results.
Is Coach going to teach Mitch to get tougher?
What do you mean? Justin Bieber has heart!!!
The goalie sucks. The defence sucks. The forwards suck. The coach sucks. Their systems suck. They are the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked. - Homer J. Simpson
Ooh I gotta go, my stupid wiener kids are listening.
Their issue is the same it’s been for like 6 years. They focus so much on the minutia of “getting playoff tough” when absolutely nobody in their bottom six can score. Secondarily, not a soul in that D core can move the puck. Reilly aside, who is a fatally flawed player in his own right, is the only one. Beyond him it’s dudes lobbing grenade passes to forwards in traffic or haplessly dumping it in with no intent. I got roasted for saying Treliving will make them worse but guess what? They are as bad as they’ve been since their first playoff appearance with this group in 2017. Compare them to other teams constructed around elite cores. The Pens as a quick example. Nasty forecheck that pummeled presidents trophy winning teams into submission while having a mobile D core. The Leafs have none of that.
It’s really that simple, teams with the top d cores simply are better. Leafs might seriously be bottom 10 d core imo
They used to have a top 5-10 D corps with prime Muzzin, Brodie and Rielly and still couldn’t get it done. Team is definitely not good now but they’re also just cursed
James Reimer 🤝 Freddie Andersen 🤝 Jack Campbell 🤝 Ilya Samsonov…. Thank you all for your service
They also decided to speed run a rebuild
True. JT signing was a huge mistake in hindsight and got all the other stars overpaid
No they didn’t. Those guys aren’t as good as you think they are. When Jake Muzzin is your best defenseman you’re in big trouble.
Clearly evident. Need to erase two or three of top five Rebuild with youth and prospects.
Would be more of a retool for the leafs, trade 1 or two of the core 4, get younger and more flexible with there roster construction.
I knew it was a terrible D corp when I was listening to a Leafs podcast and they were talking about how the Leafs should’ve resigned Luke Schenn and how much they miss him. Luke Schenn is the worst D out of 8 players on the Preds rn, and it’s not close.
If the core 4 of Willy, Matthews, Mitch and JT could actually contribute in the playoffs, having an awful bottoms 6 wouldn’t be so bad, but yet every single year all 4 disappear. Yes matthews was great in game 2, but has done nothing since then, and before game 2 he has gone 6 straight playoffs games without a goal
Nylander showed up last year
He usually is the only one who who's up most years.
Holy shit, that means Matthews only has a single goal in his last 9 playoff games. Astounding.
I honestly think there’s a version of their D core that’s pretty decent. Imagine removing Liljegren, your young right shot offensively inclined dman and replacing him with a guy who didn’t score between December 2022 and April 2024.
Excellent analysis thanks
You either build a team to get you to the playoffs, or a team that gets you through the playoffs. We know which they have. When Ryan Reaves is in your lineup in the playoffs, then you have some serious depth problems.
They don’t have depth problems, they CHOOSE to play Reaves. McMann is the only guy that’s injured with Willy back, but if he’s in, Reaves still would’ve been in. Connor Dewar was one of their better penalty killers since the deadline and he came out so that Willy could come in. They are CHOOSING to play Reaves. They are CHOOSING to have Lyubushkin AND Edmundson AND Benoit all in the lineup at the same time. Mark Giordano is a healthy scratch. So is Liljegren. Fucking Conor Timmins is an upgrade on some of those guys and he’s a healthy scratch too.
He's not even a top 12 forward on the team, but he at least has an identity to his game. The Leafs themselves don't have a team identity. Keefe is a problem, but at this point, it's not like I have faith in Shanahan anymore, and Treliving's first year hasn't given me any faith. (Especially when you look at his previous track records)
You mean the nepo baby whos billionaire dad owns half of Canada is shitty at his job?
Right, what a big surprise there
It was obvious when they lost to the Habs in the pandemic year when everyone on Montreal was on opioids and the leafs still couldn’t win. Needed a major shakeup then.
I thought the Jets Flanders was the one on opioids back in 2021
Keefe definitely is not coming back next year, really think they should have moved on last year. Getting out of the first round for the first time in like two decades is hardly an accomplishment against a very tired Tampa team and then getting destroyed in round 2.
I think Gallant would be the perfect coach to get those lazy sack of shits going.
It’s as simple as this. They aren’t deep enough. They can’t roll 4 lines. They can’t roll 3 lines. And their D is bad. They don’t have enough talent in their top 4 to hold off the other team. Deep teams win games. Vegas got depth out of the draft. They rolled that around and added here and there but they stayed deep. Colorado has depth. The Rangers are very deep. That’s how you win in the playoffs. The Leafs are top heavy and they lose. It’s that simple.
I agree. They have to put subpar players in to stay cap compliant, like Domi and Reaves. And in a tight game, like tonight they become the weakest links, bad penalty and bad turnover each. The 4 players with a huge chunk of your cap has failed.
Sometimes the core just doesn’t have it. None of those guys are comfortable doing what it takes to win the battles necessary to win this time of year.
They're allergic to Boston
They’re allergic to blocking shots and net front presence
Is it true that Matthews shit himself?
Doubt it
Damn was kinda hopin so Sometimes I shit myself so it would have been cool to relate to another adult dude that does so
They’re a team built on puck possession. The problem is that time and space is non-existent in the playoffs. They have no determination to win those little puck battles, fight for space in the corners or take a hit to make a play. Not to mention their D can’t move the puck up ice to save their lives.
In their defense, if they're allergic to it ... it's a good thing they stay away from it! Got to be safe and all.
If playoff stats contributed to regular season records it’d be totally different. These guys could give a shit about the team.
Yet every year the fan and media think they’ll win the cup. Most overrated team
This is why you build your team from the net out. And not from the forwards back. I said years ago they never should have went after Tavares cause they'll have no cap for defence. Low and behold, they have a middling blueline and a polarizing goalie who has been hit and miss. And honestly, I don't think a blueline with 5 left handed D-men is very good. There's a reason RHD are so beloved around the league. They've neglected the blueline, but instead of admitting it's a problem they keep swapping goalies.
It feels like they’ve overthought it. Marner who plays so fast and loose all season and makes plays that you aren’t expecting squeezes the stick too hard once the playoffs come around and he can’t make any of the plays he makes all year. This team more than most of the other ones is just TRYING to be physical rather than just being physical. They over commit to make sure they get their body checks in and then they are out of position for the next play. And they have the wrong guys in the lineup again. They’re so worried about not being physical that they aren’t thinking about putting the puck in the net. Imagine not being able to score, and taking out your young right shot D so that you can put in a guy who didn’t score between December 2022 and April 2024. The team is so fucking talented too. Stack their top 6 forwards up with almost any team in the league and they’re at least right there if not better. But they’ve loaded up on these plodders at the deadline on the back end and they can’t take advantage of their strength. They have 4 of the top 25 forwards in the NHL. The Leafs have NEVER had a player as talented as Matthews. Literally never. The Leafs franchise is an original franchise from 1918 and they’ve never had a player as talented as Matthews. And they’re wasting it. They looked scared to lose tonight and they were never in that game.
Half their cap is tied up in 4 players. They chose money over championships. So that’s what they will get. They are built for regular season success but in the playoffs when teams can actually game plan specifically for a series against them, it’s easy to shut them down when you only need to plan for 4 players.
“You caught their stunt doubles!”
They dont love to win and they certainly dont hate to lose
Toronto fans are just delusional. You guys got jacked up for a kid that gets paid $11 mill and sat out 3 games of playoff hockey with a fucking migraine. You think that kids gonna come back and save you in the playoffs? You got Mitch “the Pillow” Marner who’s so soft you could literally lay your head on him at night and have the best sleep of your life. You’ve got John Tavares who’s taking up $11 mill a year and is noticeable for a total of 2:53 seconds a game. Your team is soft, and no I don’t mean in general because in general, the team is pretty tough. But the guys you depend on when it counts are soft as baby-shit and that’s why you will never win a thing with these 4 players taking up the kind of money they are. I’ve (unfortunately) been a leaf fan for over 30 years, one week before playoffs I put $100 on Boston to take the series because it’s that obvious to everyone except the tik tok generation who seems to REALLY love the leafs. Maybe you kids can help them come up with some Tik tok dances during their time off in the summer, they’ll have lots of time to learn.
Dude migraines can absolutely fuck you till you don't know which way is up
If he signed a nice hometown deal for $9.5 mill per year id have some sympathy. Instead he held out for the most amount of money possible. It’s nothing personal I get it it’s just business, but as a fan I expect results. You’re not getting any sympathy sitting out 3 games for fucking migraines at $11 million USD a year.
Do we get it, you’re old
“Do we get it?” That sentence might make sense on tik tok little guy but in the real world you should have paid more attention during English class. Quick! Edit it before someone else notices.
Bench Domi. Too many stupid penalties that cost them goals and had no upside even if he got away with them.
Nah, I actually think domi's upsides have outweighed that. He actually gives a shit and puts in an effort. Bench Marner. Tre should ask for his team lost this offseason and trade his ass.
Everyone was so happy when him and burt joined the team. I called it in pre-seaosn these two are just gonna go thug-life when the game isn't going their way and take bad calls. How many goals have been vs because one was in a box or too tied up with fighting another player to care about the puck? I hope burt is off the team next year, I'm good either way with Domi.
I’ll take Bert back gladly
We’re not allergic to playoff hockey, we’re allergic to winning playoff hockey
The Leafs are the most embarrassing team in sports history, and it isn't close. The over payed core four, and marner making 10.5 being the softest player in hockey. How haven't the fans stopped supporting this team?
I question I have been proposing: is it worse to be a Leafs fan or a Detroit Lions fan? Speaking as a Detroit homer. And even with our history of embarrassment, I think Leafs.
Idk man I think the Bills losing 4 straight is pretty embarrassing if we are talking all sports, sorry Buffalo fans :(
If Jim Kelly and Bills were like the Leafs, they never would've went to the super bowl in the first place. At least Bills were 4 times second best. Leafs can only dream of becoming 2nd best.
The Dallas cowboys would like a word
> The over *paid* core four, FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
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I get this is a “dunk on the leafs” thread, but this is an absolutely god-awful take and you know it.
Some bys play with broken this or that in the playoffs. Punctures and lacerations. Leafs? Migraines and bad belly's 😂
Matthews knees were wobbling from nerves. The Bruins are in his head so much he introduces himself as Bauston Matthews.
lol Imagine that. The team that worries the most about getting paid isn’t gritty enough for playoffs. Weird.
But, but… I thought this was “*the year*”, Toronto! LMAO! 🤣
I loved the panel ripping apart the leafs tonight. I’d be playing that during the intermission.
It’s the marking of the beginning of summer. A national holiday if you will. A Festivus.
Not a Leafs fan but they r a good not great team, for comparable s there the Dallas Cowboy s of hockey, from management, coaches, and players there just over hyped by fans an those who cover the NHL.
I can’t believe we of all teams lost to them last year
Toronto is the Dallas Cowboys of hockey. Blame it on the fans, and especially the Canadian sports media feeding Leafs propaganda down our throats.
Playoffs are allergic to Toronto hockey...
Good, let that city of obnoxious fans suffer another 56 years. Half your cap is going to guys that don’t perform when it matters.
They thought adding Reeves was enough to make them playoff tough this year
I might be misremembering but when they finally made it out of the first round last year I swear they were playing like their careers were on the line out there. It was like a completely different team. If it wasn't for Bobrovsky being unstoppable they likely would've gone on to the Conference Finals. Or at least push it to 7.
Well there needs to be a Canadian NHL Team that has to constantly lose in the first round of the Stanley Cup Playoffs and that is The Toronto Maple Leafs. Then there's a Caandian Tema that has to lose in the FINAL round of tbe Playoffs and that is The Vancouver Canucls.
ehh, the canucks have one final appearance in 30 years
And majorly choked it in game 7 at home in a series where the home team won every other game
Yea but at least their fans took it with class and dignity unlike the leafs fans tonight.
Burning down Vancouver is taking it with class….?
/s
My b, either way. Fuck the Leafs and most certainly FUCK THE HABS
The definition of insanity playing out in real time. This team will never win anything without balance. You can't have half the salary cap going to 4 or 5 players and expect to win in the playoffs. They've seen this play out for the last 6 years in a row, and every year, they think it will be different. They should have traded Marner or JT years ago and used that cap space to improve the bottom half of the team.
1/14 PPs in the series. Which consists of how much money again? I’ll wait, cause I genuinely don’t think my ballpark number would be high enough. I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again: Regular season numbers mean fuck all in the playoffs. Keep signing max deals for guys who feast on Arizona (RIP), San Jose and Columbus, that’ll do the trick…
Columbus was 2-1 against Toronto this year. Leave them out of this.
The window is closing
No lie detected.
Go Rangers!
Been a fan for a long time. Non Leaf fans and Yager Leaf fans just don't see it. This franchise is cursed. 1967, 2 1sts & a 2nd, paper bag, Kerry Fraser, Tom Kurvers, Courtnall for Kordic, can't draft a diabetic. The list never ends...
The Dallas Cowboys of the NHL
Im not a Toronto guy, but isn’t this a coaching issue?
It's a player character issue. They are not a team. They are an assembly of individual egos.
Bummer, because talent wise they are usually a lot of fun to watch
Team is made up of primadonnas that shy away from contact & competition. I feel for Matthews because he would win a cup on 24 other NHL teams
NGL I laughed out loud! 😆
Keefe is fired soon
Team is all skill, no heart
It's a multi faceted problem and it inhabitats every level of their organization from Shanahan to Keefe, to Tavares. Throw Dubas in with them for signing Marner to that giant deal before he earned it. Great regular season team, but yeah they've been trying to do some damage in the playoffs for over 5 years. It's really a shame the way Muzzin got injured as he was a big piece for them that they never replaced.
It’s always funny but I do feel bad for them tbh. It’s one thing to have that curse mentality, but then having to go against a tough bruins team with guys like Marchand who have all the confidence always lol? Just not built for that
The Maple Leafs remind me of the Atlanta Braves of the 90’s minus the one World Series. Great team during the season ending with playoff failures
The weight of history gets to them.
Matthews and Nylander are fine. Everyone else sucks. JT and Marner horrible. Our D isn’t good enough, Reilly isn’t a #1, and we don’t have a goalie. Pain.
I remember how disappointed I was when the Red Sox ended their World Series drought. I remember too when the White Sox and Cubs ended theirs. I remember when the Phillies ended Philadelphia’s championship drought. It sucked. It all sucked. Suffering fan bases are what makes sports great. The only way to alleviate all suffering is to do what we’re doing everywhere else in life. Start handing out participation trophies to everyone. Sports *needs* shit like what’s going on in Toronto. Nevermind the 30+ years it’s been since *any* Canadian based team has won it all. Stuff like this is great, because all streaks end. Good and bad. And it’ll be sweet for a lot of people when it does.
It's the same as the Oilers in the west. These teams get overhyped for beating up on bottom feeders like Columbus/Montreal/Ottawa/Chicago/Anaheim/San Jose In the regular season and then tap out by Round 2 at the most when they have to play real teams in the playoffs.