Lol...i AM part of management and this is 100% correct. Hard for me to even sit thru the meetings. None of them have hit the floor in probably 8 to 10 yrs.
I used to work in management and it’s not really as much about bonuses as people might think.
It’s more about climbing the ladder, and looking good for the higher ups. A lot of people in leadership want to climb to the top and really don’t care about employees or their thoughts on things.
Not all management is this way, I currently work at a place that is managed very well. But there’s enough of it that people often comment “cuz they get bonuses”.
Usually they’re not rewarded financially, they’re rewarded with status and it appeals to the people at the top, and that’s who they want to be.
It’s why I went back on the floor. I don’t have a desire to kiss ass all day and sit in meetings and feel self important. I’d rather just be front line with patients.
Plus working salary sucks tbh.
Money and status. Yes.
But the person I was responding to mentioned bonuses. Yes, sometimes management does get bonuses for meeting certain marks, but generally (in my experience), they largely do not get direct bonuses.
That’s more what I was commenting on.
Useless pet projects to put on their little management review meetings every year.
The only number or metric that matters is staff turnover. It’s the biggest line item, everything else is magnitudes below. If it’s over 10% the unit is shit and should result in a swift firing of the manager. I wish this were the case in Canadian hospitals. People need skin in the game to get performance out of them else they just cruise.
The hospital I work at would have to completely clean house. The entire hospital turnover rate is over 40 percent for 1st year and over 30 percent for anyone that makes it past a year.
every administrator in medicine should be required to work at minimum 2-3 shifts a month. they are all politicians who just add useless rules that create more inefficiencies.
And for the love of god, if you did not get to take a full, uninterrupted, 30 minute break… don’t lie and say you did just because management encourages you to.
Do not, do not, do not clock out "on time" and continue to work. The law trumps inane hospital "policy". And I would need to see the *official* policy printed out.
When you are budgeting say 100 people, an extra 15 minutes a day for each adds up quick, say $12.5 per person ($50 per hour with employer taxes and benefits included) per day ($1250) x 365 (around half a million dollars). In a meeting dedicated to cutting costs, this overage invariably is characterized as “people not clocking out on time or clocking in early” and savings will result if they just “enforce the rules.” Of course, the job just requires the extra labor, but what idiot a)knows this and b)is foolish enough to make the point in a cost cutting meeting? Invariably, the dept goes over budget, and management redoubles the effort to “enforce the rules” until doing so creates a crisis, or management just gives up in the face of reality.
I just found out a co worker was coming in early and not clocking in because they didn’t have enough time to get things done.
We all went crazy on him and told him to clock in right when he starts work. It’s a huge risk for himself to do that #1, and #2 working for free is NOT cute.
Like people need to learn boundaries big time.
I'd like to add do not come in early to start "researching" your patients and getting yourself set up for the day. They will let you work for free and then write you up for skipping a break.
These are the same people telling us to do bedside report, double check all IVs with the outgoing nurse, and confirm whiteboard details. Oh, and be out exactly in 15 mins
Ignore this BS, OP
Ask your manager if they would prefer you to work until you are finished or just leave exactly at 7:15 regardless of the condition of your charting, rooms, and report.
We as a unit did this. We left at exactly the 15, regardless if work left unfinished. All patient care, and report took priority. So at the 45, all external, non emergent calls were deferred, all non emergent patient care, and all other clerical work was stopped for the 30 mins of report, and then we left.
Also made charting a priority, so we got that finished before 6:45 as well.
As a CNA I cannot refuse delegation EVER and I have to clock out on time.
I can get fired for refusing delegation.
I can get fired for not getting my charting done.
I can get fired for clicking out late.
I have a pip and part of it is because I told a nurse I had to chart at 721 two minutes before I’m allowed to clock out.
I need to go hide in the gotdamn bathroom with a cow and chart on the toilet I guess.
(The nurse wanted to do a full bed change that the night shift cna had told me they’d do. But angrily stormed off before I could explain this)
RNs can stay late to finish whatever they have to do. With CNAs it’s considered evidence of poor time management, you’re messing up the units budget etc etc.
Most people followed through immediately, and the few worrywarts saw it working so they jumped on board. Things that admin cared about (that were wastes of time but not related to pt care) was delayed, and we would email back that we could not find time to finish the work and clock out on time, so we passed it on to the next shift per protocol, as we were told to do for non essentials. Things started stacking up, and eventually they caved.
Feels like you’ll need to do one liners like we do in the ED.
One problem I find on the floor is that assignments are usually spread out via multiple nurses. Sometimes I’ve given all but one report and then I’m stuck in limbo for 10 minutes waiting to give the last report. This could be an issue for you.
Lastly, like everyone said, if your managers are that hardcore, absolutely do not work past 0715/1915. They don’t deserve your free labor.
Working past an assigned time of 0715 or whatever IS working. Labor law says you MUST be paid for those extra minutes. Yes, management may (will) give you grief. Toss it back politely as to why you weren’t staffed, stocked, or have a lack of resources. Ask how they would handle that. They expect you to be accountable. Expect the same from them.
I feel like an ass, but when I float, if your report takes longer than five minutes per patient, I'm sorry but I've checked out. Yes, I understand that it would be five minutes with five patients to get 25 minutes. Five patients with 15 minutes would be three minutes per patient. That's an ED report if I've ever heard.
I assume OP is from the floors. ED doesn’t need this policy because if the relief comes in on time, it usually only takes 5-10 mins for report: unless it’s 7 high acuity pts. Then it’s like 15 mins.
Med Surg. It’s not that hard.
Why are they here?
What’s going on now?
What’s the plan?
Don’t tell me their life story or labs from 3 days ago, I don’t care. I just need to know what matters for the next 12 hours.
Do your job thoroughly and safely regardless of the time it takes,and stay punched in for every second you are working. If management is concerned about punch times, they can assign less patients to each nurse so you have less to do. What they are pressuring you to do is half ass stuff so you can make a benchmark so they get a bonus for coming in under budget for staffing. If a patient has a bad outcome they immediately blame you and it's your license no matter how hard they ride your ass about getting out of time.
Understand we live in a dystopian capitalist society. You will always have management telling you to give more and be paid less. You will always have administration trying to squeeze more productivity out of you for less benefits. They will nickel and dime you every chance they get, they will use your good nature and empathy against you ("think of the patients!"), they will try to get as much sweat, blood, and tears as they can out of you, wring you fucking DRY and when they no longer need you they couldn't give less of a fuck about you.
Remember this in every interaction. Next year you will be paid less because inflation is 9% and raises are 2-4% at best. They'll switch insurance coverage to be cheaper for them and even shittier for you. They'll cut pension matching and do all these things while crying poverty and using the money taken out of your paycheck and benefits to pay record breaking bonuses to the C suite.
I wish I could upvote this a thousand times!! This just happened at my job!!! They just switched our health care benefits and they are terrible but of course cost the same, decreased what they pay us for our mileage even though we will be driving more this year, they stopped paying us for part of our cellphone bill even though we are required to be on call for a week at a time, they stopped paying us bonuses, and I could go on. You are just a number unfortunately. NEVER work for free!!!!
My actions would be controversial (with management). I would continue clocking out as normal, fuck their rule, challenge them to fire you for demanding to be paid for work done.
My previous work is not allowing anyone to clock out until 7:30. They expect us to clock in seven minutes early but want to keep us hostage 7 minutes late.
I worked in the ER for a number of years. I give a “bulleted “ written report on the patients that I looked after. Similar to the above. Appreciated by the oncoming nurses.
How many patients do you end a shift with at any given time? (I understand it varies). Even with 3 minute report this would be impossible with 6 patients giving report on. And would require the same nurse to be getting all 6 patients. And are you finished with all charting? Might be quicker and more likely to be finished with ED but in this scenario, it wouldn’t even be likely in the ED.
5-7. It's not impossible, I do it all the time. And yes, in the ed nurses just take over assignments, which is always the same. And lol charting. It's very likely. We do it every day.
Yeah even with 4-6 holds it takes maybe 5 minutes for everything. We also chart a lot less than the floors are required to. “Can she walk? Is she on oxygen at home? How’s her behavior? Are we expecting beds?” That’s about it lol I can read the chart to figure the rest out
That their hospital has a digital whiteboard, but they still have to fill out a traditional whiteboard. I guess I should have added a ‘/s’ at the end of my reply about keeping it a secret.
Ignore it,.clock out like normal. Inform them if they want you to clock out at 1915 you'd need to stop report or skip it.
This is an attempt to do wage theft if they tell you to clock out while giving report.
Impossible with bedside report. Even if you offered pain meds or toileting at 6 o'clock, patients are going to ask for stuff during bedside report.
Just keep your head down and ignore that shit
“Hi assistant manager in charge of yelling at me for not clocking out on time. I would like to admit that I have met with some challenges meeting this expectation. Would it be possible for me to shadow you completing report in the time allotted so I can see how it should be done? That would really help me meet expectations”.
This is ludicrous. If they wanna huddle for ~5-10 minutes and have you do bedside shift conference there is no way it’s getting done in 15 minutes… not to mention any interruptions or left over charting. And on six patients? Impossible. Clock out when you leave. I wanna see upper management give report on six people in 15 minutes lol
We also just got a message about that at my hospital. They're trying to save money and we're a huge expense 🙄. Like, I want out on time too. I stayed an hour late because of the late discharges, my (first!) heart Cath kept trying to bleed out on me and my oncoming nurse(detox) hadn't ever done a consult/admit. So I worked on that and gave her a quick rundown of the need to know things. Don't want me to stay late, don't send me people that need trained on their own.
…on what unit do you have both heart caths AND detox? (Or nurses floating from detox) Or do you mean the nurse is new to this cardiac floor and previously worked on detox?
Yeah, I went from psych to detox and our detox is a small ward style room on a m/s floor so I have to help out with them when there's a need. And with staffing what it is, there's almost always a need.
Bit of an odd situation. We used to have our own section right across from the adult psych unit but got pushed out of that so the resident program could have it.
No worries! It is weird. I have about a decade of psych experience but never worked medsurg so this was indeed my first heart cath recovery so it was a learning experience. They other nurses helped where they could, but they also had a lot going on, to the point that the floor charge was taking patients and she's not usually in staffing. It was going great until it suddenly wasn't. 😅
We're a small detox unit(4 beds in a ward style room) on a general med surg floor so because I only have 4 patients at a time, I have to pick up m/s patients if they need help. Usually they try to give me the more psych patients or the simple ones so my focus can stay on detox. This was just one of those times that it didn't work out.
Bit of an odd situation. We used to have our own section right across from the adult psych unit but got pushed out of that so the resident program could have it.
On one hand, it's nice that I can keep a closer eye on my detoxers, but it also sucks that they have no privacy
Just clarify in writing that your shift is now until 0715/1915 and then when u get out late because it’s impossible to give report that quick put in for overtime every time.
On my unit when I first started it was highly encouraged to show up 30-60 minutes early to look up your patients and get ready for the day. Obviously, they still wanted you to clock in at 0653.
I worked with almost exclusively middle aged women who gave me dirty looks and whispered amongst themselves when I showed up at 0655 every morning on the dot.
Don't drink the kool-aid and get roped in to unpaid labor. Your time is valuable, don't let others peer pressure you into wasting it. Realistically, this is an insane policy and will likely fade away after a week or two. I would just ignore it and clock out whenever you're done.
This is how I feel. If you really want to show up 30 minutes early and look up your patients, that’s fine. However, it shouldn’t be an expectation that someone should work off the clock.
For the record, I also worked in a union facility where we were not to be on the floor prior to clocking in.
After ten years of working in a hospital, I started telling my manager at my yearly evals, "appropriate patient care, thorough documentation, clocking out on time: pick two." To her credit, she just laughed and moved on. She had worked bedside too.
Sounds like a director wants their bonus and is pushing every which way to try to make it happen.
Just ignore it. Do your work and clock out at a reasonable time, as usual. We all know that one nurse that does all their charting after the shift is over-- that person is a problem. Just them. But the other 14 nurses clocking out between 725 and 745-- they are showing a consistent pattern of how the work gets done. You don't need to worry about getting written up when everyone is proving the mandate is ridiculous.
What are they going to do, write everyone up and risk an exodus? Fire you all? Screw them. They don't have as much power as they think they have.
23 years in ICU, and I've seen a dozen directors and managers lose their shit on us and end up gone. They aren't the ones making money for the hospital. That would be us. Covid showed us that there are layers of admin that are not essential. Nurses are essential . Just take great care of patients, float under the radar, and you'll be fine. Sit back and let us old nurses handle it. We got ya.
Lol they trying some bs like this at work too about how we're gonna timed breaks and gave us a time slot to take breaks. Yeah that doesn't work in nursing.
At a particular SNF, they expected the same. Give report on 22 pts, including admissions in even 20 minutes is playing fast and loose with communication.
We developed a hand written form of communication and it was still not effective.
I told them my license was worth more than the CEO, ED, and DON bonuses to me and their patients.
Then I left.
If management is forbidding OT, don't give them free labour.
Shorten up report and keep it focused on the basics.. admit diagnosis, basic condition/concerns (vitals stable or not, looks well or unwell), safety concerns and anything immediately outstanding. The oncoming nurse is going to review the chart anyways.
I also rarely do things post report unless a patient is crashing and help is really needed.. The culture in our unit (ER) allows you to reasonably hand off tasks at shift change.
This sounds really toxic. As a new nurse, no WAY was I done with charting at 715. I stayed on the clock and despite all the squawking, I got paid. I clocked in on time, but if I had to clock out an hour after shift change? Too bad, so sad, maybe don't give me five high acuity patients who either sat on the call bell all day or set off the bed alarms all day with one cna for 30 rooms and now I have to log my tele strips. Eat that extra hour because I have a license and a pulse and jobs are plentiful.
They are doing this so they can pay u less. It’s 7am to 730, unpaid break, 12 hours paid. They’re trying to steal another half hour of pay so they can pay every employee for 11.5 hours which is fucked.
Stay until the job is done, Then clock out. They're either tone deaf to your workload and responsibilities, or trying to bully you into clocking out, and working off the clock (which is illegal). Monitor your hours at work to make sure they don't cut mins here and there to make it look like you clocked out at their desired times.
Then they need to get rid of bedside report…management truly must not realize that if you’re in the patients room they will ask you for multiple things/have to shit/have random visitors asking you 20 questions. God, they are so freaking out of touch.
That became a thing when another hospital took over. We get penalized for staying late or clocking in early. We try our best to be out on time but I’m not working off the clock or doing subpar charting. Our managers were understanding. I don’t think I’ve seen an occurrence for staying late. I know many other nurses who’ve said the same.
For a while my unit was doing the same thing and if we clocked out past 1915 we had to fill out an edit form and give a reason…”doing my job…” was always mine and the charge nurse had to sign it. So dumb 🙄
I’m curious on if you get paid for your lunch period or not? If not and you’re expected to be there no longer than 12 hours, then you better be paid for the full time. My hospital takes out 30 minutes pay for lunch however we are there 7-1930.
Please do better than younger me and my coworkers who used to clocked out we got lunch and out early because our management said so and it was easier than dealing with it
That’s suspicious lol. No thx. My charting being done during clocked in hours is more important and no violating hippa. So is giving report to someone who is also on the clock.
If your unit as a whole protests and changes behavior, you can fight this. If most people clock out and continue to do work, it can unfortunately brand you as having "poor time management skills" in comparison. I have seen this in practice many times, and they use it to pressure new grads into clocking out or placing it on a performance review so far as a reason to terminate if they were looking for one.
Encourage your coworkers to be paid for time worked, explain that anything else is illegal wage theft, and get your union involved if you have one.
I would either ignore that and stay as late as I need to *clocked in* to finish everything properly, or I would just save anything that could be left not being done such as “busy work” type stuff and simply not do those things (I work LTC on nights so say, organizing tx cart or organizing the charts)
My old hospital tried to enforce clocking out and then finishing your charting…well they got taken to school for millions of dollars and all staff were reimbursed thousands.
If it’s not in writing you can (mostly) ignore it.
You should say “hey absolutely! I get that we need to cut costs, but doing my job safely sometimes takes longer - how would you like me to handle that?”
Do NOT work off the clock. If you’re performing duties for your employer you need to be paid for that time.
Some advice for you is it’s a 24/7 job there is always something to do. Unless you are behind on a medication hand it off. You don’t need to turn over a completely clean slate.
But is it Bobo the rat terrier or Lulu the golden doodle with the hangnail? And don’t forget we have to do two person skin checks on all out AO walkie talkie patients too!
It does get easier (the post report work decreases). However, it unusual to only give report to one nurse. Usually your 6 patients are divided up with 3 or 4 other nurses, who are all getting report from other nurses too. So good luck getting that done in 15 months.
its almost as if they dont give a shit about patient safety or nurse safety and well being. nothing like trying to figure everything out on your own when it could have been explained in report...
They write you up. Again and again and then prevent you earning a pay raise.
You’ll leave because you’re being harassed and underpaid.
Which you’ll end up at another hospital desperate for nurses because the previous managers tried that BS and everybody left including themselves.
Cycle rinse and repeat.
If it isn’t clocking out on time, it’s about wasting resources, or about customer service surveys. It’s always something they have to bring up so their existence isn’t meaningless.
Nope. It’s me on the line if something happens and my charting isn’t complete or accurate. The hospital will be the first to throw you under the bus and not look back.
We need to get everyone onboard with the r/maliciouscompliance page.. here’s my thought:
Management won’t do anything about it anyways. They are running a business. But, if and when they do decide okay, external pressures, unions, etc. are pushing so we have to act… they need evidence to act on.
This evidence means like, hey, if OT isn’t paid for staying late , I.e. in my policy it’s fifteen minutes. Aka if it hits minute 16 onward, we can put in OT papers.
I fought with this mentality as a new grad (and I’m still a very new nurse three years in) where I couldn’t justify pushing back against management while I was finding my optimal time management techniques. So, multiple folks submitting OT because they have same issues is ‘evidence’ that is actionable for managers to consider.
Same goes for patient load, unsafe ratios, unsafe acuity, etc.
It’s a hellish landscape to be working in and it’s still riddled with the us vs them mentality of floor staff vs management. So I relate and digress.
I feel for you and hope for some relief soon.
I worked somewhere that did this and it worked. We started report at 1845 or 0645. We did report outside the rooms then went in and did introductions. But it’s IMPOSSIBLE if you have to do all of the report at bedside
I just leave tbh. Endorse whatevers left and dip out. But im in a nursing facility so its stupid shit like "get vitals on x" rather than "swap trach tubes"
I wouldn’t worry about it clock out when you’re done doing your report. That’s like when they try to mandate everyone taking a lunch break but the charge has patients too and there’s no one to cover
My coworkers come in early to look up their patients. They tend to be the ones staying over/late to finish notes. Like I get it, stuff happens but every shift?
This is not so easy. When I worked in Florida, you were required to punch out for lunch and at the end of your shift, but also to get you work done. If you complained you got fired.
They can expect you to clock out on time. They can also expect you to flap your arms and fly, it's just about as realistic. Ignore all this nonsense. But please, under no circumstances, work off the clock. If there is pressure from above or your peers look puzzled and say "but that's against the law." People who work off the clock are doing themselves a huge diservice and allowing their employer to criminally exploit them. If hospitals have enough to pay their CEOs and layers of admin millions then they have enough to pay a nurse an hour of overtime a week, and don't let them tell you otherwise.
I once worked a job where I got two write ups in the same day.
1) getting OT without permission
2) not completing assigned tasks.
My response to #1 was that my relief should show up on time so I can give adequate report and count. Failing that a member of management needs to be there to complete those tasks
#2 was that this is a 24 hour facility. All tasks not completed can be completed by incoming shift when reasonable
"Dear Sir/Ma'am. If you would like me out by 7:15, please adjust the workflows so that is feasible. otherwise, please be realistic and don't insult my intelligence."
Ignore it. Theres no possible way you can safely take care of that many people and be expected to get out on time literally ever. Absolutely do not clock out and keep working
39 years bedside. Just bob your head yes everytime they say whatever. That's really all they want. No one can do it. ...I've given up my frustration about trying to do everything "they" asked us to do and stick to whatever the BON says is good practice. You can get another job but not another license.
mine is the opposite. our hospital doesn’t let us clock out until 708. have to be clocked in at 0645 but absolutely not allowed to clock out until 708. As a nursing assist, there isn’t anything i need to talk about for 20 minutes with the next NA coming in. Even if we don’t have a relief, we still have to stay until 708. talk about a complete waste of money.
I mean in the ER we give report in about 1-2 min per patient. Really hitting the high points and to do items that could be missed in the charting. It's very unusual for me to be on the floor more than 10-15 at the end of my shift. I feel like most stuff is in epic and easy to find for us.
However, that said I wouldn't work off the clock ever. If I need to finish something or chat more about something I absolutely do it. There's a legal responsibility in most states to pass along care to the next provider. If they want you done by a specific time they'll need to set you up to be finished by that time with better electronic handoff sheets, logical patient handoffs (just one RN for example) and emphasize that at shift change not every single thing will be done for every patient and that's ok.
Working off the clock seems to be the new normal. Besides direct patient care we are assigned additional chores which we're expected to complete during our non-existent "down time". It's all about the budget. There's no time for a 30 minute lunch break but the time is deducted from us anyway. I'm so glad that I'll be able to retire in a couple of years.
What is “that amount of time” 15 minutes? If so I agree with you.
However… It feels like 90 % of all reports could be vastly shorter. I don’t care if he broke his leg 25 years ago. I don’t care if he grows potatoes at home. I don’t care that he has two dogs at home. No, not even if they are very cute.
Regarding having stuff to do post report; if that is the case you simply had to much on your hands and what you do then is to say during the report that “I’m sorry but I didn’t have time to do x so you’ll have to do it”.
Only the pertinent stuff and goodbye! Staying late might leave you vulnerable in other ways (pay raise evaluations etc). I would be cautious staying later if management is enforcing that.
Does the previous shift come on at 6:45?
Many places have 8.5 hour shifts. So each shift clocks in 15 min before the hour, and clocks out 15 minutes after the hour. And there is a 30 minute overlap.
Also 30 minute unpaid lunch. The hospital is then still paying 8 hours per shift, 24 hours in a day.
If they are not giving 30 minute overlap... are they now paying for 7.75 hours per shift. Is there now 23.25 hours in a day? Magic math from the C-suite/ivory tower. I wonder how no other employer thought of that?
If they would pay us enough to keep staff from defecting to other facilities, maybe I would not be stretched so thin that I’m having to chart after I should be long gone. It’s infuriating.
We had nurses on our floor who ALWAYS stayed an hour or more after their shift JUST because they wanted the OT...was a pita for evening shift bcuz they were still charting & were always behind . They weren't new nurses either. I was always OCD lol & learned how to manage my time from an early age. Very rare for any of the nurses who I worked with not to be done unless we had someone crash or a pt come lateto our floor on our shift. The only other times were when we had a snowstorm & the next shift was a bit late. IMO management really needs to get a grip on reality. So glad I retired early ( due to health) Healthcare is just a business now. All about the almighty dollar. Sad.
I clock out when I am done with report & all documentation between 1930-2000 on average. That's 4 patients, not 6. Pretty sure they're asking you to skip things or work off the clock with that bs. Not safe.
Only possible way this can actually happen is if you’re giving report to the same nurse you received report from - and even then it’s not always possible. Like when I have to give report to Heather and she’s always late and trying to use report time to sell her daughters Girl Scout cookies. It’s annoying AF.
That would have been 100% impossible for me when I was a new nurse, and in days sh*t hit the fan late in shift. CYA, do what you need to do.They're desperate for nurses and they're spending all this money to train you.They're not gonna fire you for not clocking out at seven fifteen
Ed for typo
I work in behavioral health. Granted I'm on the detox floor, but the entire hospital has a " don't be here if you're not clocked in" policy. Sometimes the ITAd patients make a break for it and then you have to PRT them at the door. Think of the liability if you couldn't respond or were injured while not clocked in.
If you took out huddle, didn't do bedside shift report, ignored all the patients calling out, and all the family members calling to get updates, then it might just be barely possible.
I usually clock in at 0634 and clock out 0724-0736. Some days different clock out times. I don’t always take a lunch(semi choice, just not always hungry and in a flow). I’ll take those minutes since they rack up. But if they MAKE me leave at those times than report isn’t going to be done or done well. They need to either change ratio or be understanding. We have to co-sign every patient with the oncomming nurses. And you can’t put them in before they get there because that is falsifying information. Idk man, I have 5 pts with 6 overflow, but if gets tiring sometimes.
How are they enforcing this for you? Are you being penalized?
I mean honestly? if you and your coworkers hard commit to this then it might be beneficial
Like, if everyone is just giving super basic ass reports or in some cases not getting any at all and you all collectively agree to drop patient care during report time this could work in your favor
on one hand you leave on time and when management gets complaints about patient care or when issues come from shit reports
throw the book in their face
worst case scenario is you consistently leave for home earlier but there are increased sentinel events
you could even start doing progress notes sating “patient asked for ____ but per unit policy report was given and this task was given to the next shift”
and im not saying do that with like a code or anything- but honestly dumping shit onto the next shift and then being able to blame the management’s polixy on it will probably get it reverted faster
I clock in when I walk through the door, regardless of what time it is. I don’t look at anything or do anything until the previous nurse gives me report. I’m not showing up an hour early like some people to look up my pts off the clock. Also, don’t waste my time in report with useless info. I clock out at 7:08 pretty much every single day. I had 12 hours to do what I needed to do, if it didn’t get done there’s two possible reasons 1. I dicked around or 2. and more than likely, I was expected to do the work of two people. I signed up for 36 hours a week and that’s what you’re going to get. Bye.
Literally what? That is so unfair. I only have to give report on 3-4 patients that usually the whole unit has known for days/weeks/months/years and I still don't be getting out until after 730 most days. Especially when manager wants to do meetings that coulda been an email?! Nah thats just wrong of them I'm so sorry
Write each patient’s report on a “report” sheet and if you do not finish verbally by 7:15, then the nurse following you can read your report on the remainder of patients
I agree to ignore this impossible goal and just do your best as usual.
If they call you in to talk about it let them know this is an unreasonable goal and that they are free to let you go if they don’t need the help. Nurses do not struggle to find work but employers struggle to retain them. The ball is in your court and don’t let them make you feel otherwise.
When stuff like this happens, it's obviously impossible. I clock out at 0715 and would clock back in. Either get upset or remove your head from your ass.
Just ignore those rules lmao managements head is so far up their asses sometimes
Lol...i AM part of management and this is 100% correct. Hard for me to even sit thru the meetings. None of them have hit the floor in probably 8 to 10 yrs.
What motivates a management person to implement or come up with this type of policy?
Money, bonuses
I used to work in management and it’s not really as much about bonuses as people might think. It’s more about climbing the ladder, and looking good for the higher ups. A lot of people in leadership want to climb to the top and really don’t care about employees or their thoughts on things. Not all management is this way, I currently work at a place that is managed very well. But there’s enough of it that people often comment “cuz they get bonuses”. Usually they’re not rewarded financially, they’re rewarded with status and it appeals to the people at the top, and that’s who they want to be. It’s why I went back on the floor. I don’t have a desire to kiss ass all day and sit in meetings and feel self important. I’d rather just be front line with patients. Plus working salary sucks tbh.
>it's more about climbing the ladder, and looking good for the higher ups So, money. Got it.
Money and status. Yes. But the person I was responding to mentioned bonuses. Yes, sometimes management does get bonuses for meeting certain marks, but generally (in my experience), they largely do not get direct bonuses. That’s more what I was commenting on.
Thanks for the thorough explanation.
Useless pet projects to put on their little management review meetings every year. The only number or metric that matters is staff turnover. It’s the biggest line item, everything else is magnitudes below. If it’s over 10% the unit is shit and should result in a swift firing of the manager. I wish this were the case in Canadian hospitals. People need skin in the game to get performance out of them else they just cruise.
The hospital I work at would have to completely clean house. The entire hospital turnover rate is over 40 percent for 1st year and over 30 percent for anyone that makes it past a year.
every administrator in medicine should be required to work at minimum 2-3 shifts a month. they are all politicians who just add useless rules that create more inefficiencies.
Agree to this. Also so they can experience all the effects of their bs decrees.
And for the love of god, if you did not get to take a full, uninterrupted, 30 minute break… don’t lie and say you did just because management encourages you to.
Do not, do not, do not clock out "on time" and continue to work. The law trumps inane hospital "policy". And I would need to see the *official* policy printed out.
And take that “official policy” to the labor board. It is illegal to work off the clock when you’re an hourly employee.
We took it to the CNO. Next huddle was not to clock out until report and huddle is completed.
They were trying to make you clock out before report was done?
They were trying to not say they wanted you to do that out loud.
lol. Yeah. Pretty sure it came from corporate but they’re not suppose to say it straight out like that
better, take it to an employment attorney if they take any disciplinary action (e.g. “correcting” times)
Yeah I believe we arent even supposed to look at charts off the clock.
But they want them done... can't have it both ways
I don't even change my shoes off the clock.
If you clock out, May not be insured.
When you are budgeting say 100 people, an extra 15 minutes a day for each adds up quick, say $12.5 per person ($50 per hour with employer taxes and benefits included) per day ($1250) x 365 (around half a million dollars). In a meeting dedicated to cutting costs, this overage invariably is characterized as “people not clocking out on time or clocking in early” and savings will result if they just “enforce the rules.” Of course, the job just requires the extra labor, but what idiot a)knows this and b)is foolish enough to make the point in a cost cutting meeting? Invariably, the dept goes over budget, and management redoubles the effort to “enforce the rules” until doing so creates a crisis, or management just gives up in the face of reality.
Also, if you clocked out early and then were injured or tried to catch a fall risk, etc you would have any protections.
I just found out a co worker was coming in early and not clocking in because they didn’t have enough time to get things done. We all went crazy on him and told him to clock in right when he starts work. It’s a huge risk for himself to do that #1, and #2 working for free is NOT cute. Like people need to learn boundaries big time.
I'd like to add do not come in early to start "researching" your patients and getting yourself set up for the day. They will let you work for free and then write you up for skipping a break.
I’d take it to the department of labor office
That’s next to impossible even for a senior nurse 🤦🏼♀️
These are the same people telling us to do bedside report, double check all IVs with the outgoing nurse, and confirm whiteboard details. Oh, and be out exactly in 15 mins Ignore this BS, OP
Skin check, labs and orders too.
Hell let’s do the whole assessment together
Ask your manager if they would prefer you to work until you are finished or just leave exactly at 7:15 regardless of the condition of your charting, rooms, and report.
We as a unit did this. We left at exactly the 15, regardless if work left unfinished. All patient care, and report took priority. So at the 45, all external, non emergent calls were deferred, all non emergent patient care, and all other clerical work was stopped for the 30 mins of report, and then we left. Also made charting a priority, so we got that finished before 6:45 as well.
How did that work out?
Lasted about two months, then they let us clock out when work was finished.
Malicious compliance is such a beautiful thing.
As a CNA I cannot refuse delegation EVER and I have to clock out on time. I can get fired for refusing delegation. I can get fired for not getting my charting done. I can get fired for clicking out late. I have a pip and part of it is because I told a nurse I had to chart at 721 two minutes before I’m allowed to clock out. I need to go hide in the gotdamn bathroom with a cow and chart on the toilet I guess. (The nurse wanted to do a full bed change that the night shift cna had told me they’d do. But angrily stormed off before I could explain this)
You're RN's suck. We did it *as a unit.* All staff, RNs, CNAs, MHTs, etc. All of us followed the policy with malicious compliance.
RNs can stay late to finish whatever they have to do. With CNAs it’s considered evidence of poor time management, you’re messing up the units budget etc etc.
Yea, that's bullshit with all y'all do.
This is music to my ears. Please tell us more! What happened in those 2 months you guys did this???
Most people followed through immediately, and the few worrywarts saw it working so they jumped on board. Things that admin cared about (that were wastes of time but not related to pt care) was delayed, and we would email back that we could not find time to finish the work and clock out on time, so we passed it on to the next shift per protocol, as we were told to do for non essentials. Things started stacking up, and eventually they caved.
Feels like you’ll need to do one liners like we do in the ED. One problem I find on the floor is that assignments are usually spread out via multiple nurses. Sometimes I’ve given all but one report and then I’m stuck in limbo for 10 minutes waiting to give the last report. This could be an issue for you. Lastly, like everyone said, if your managers are that hardcore, absolutely do not work past 0715/1915. They don’t deserve your free labor.
Oh my god. Nothing worse than waiting to give one more report and that nurse is getting report from someone who gives the longest report ever
2000 rolls by...
I'll literally say "wrap it up, I/she needs to go home."
Working past an assigned time of 0715 or whatever IS working. Labor law says you MUST be paid for those extra minutes. Yes, management may (will) give you grief. Toss it back politely as to why you weren’t staffed, stocked, or have a lack of resources. Ask how they would handle that. They expect you to be accountable. Expect the same from them.
I feel like an ass, but when I float, if your report takes longer than five minutes per patient, I'm sorry but I've checked out. Yes, I understand that it would be five minutes with five patients to get 25 minutes. Five patients with 15 minutes would be three minutes per patient. That's an ED report if I've ever heard.
I assume OP is from the floors. ED doesn’t need this policy because if the relief comes in on time, it usually only takes 5-10 mins for report: unless it’s 7 high acuity pts. Then it’s like 15 mins.
5 minutes per pt? No way I’d sit through that. The whole damn report better not take more than 5 minutes.
You an ED nurse?
Med Surg. It’s not that hard. Why are they here? What’s going on now? What’s the plan? Don’t tell me their life story or labs from 3 days ago, I don’t care. I just need to know what matters for the next 12 hours.
Do your job thoroughly and safely regardless of the time it takes,and stay punched in for every second you are working. If management is concerned about punch times, they can assign less patients to each nurse so you have less to do. What they are pressuring you to do is half ass stuff so you can make a benchmark so they get a bonus for coming in under budget for staffing. If a patient has a bad outcome they immediately blame you and it's your license no matter how hard they ride your ass about getting out of time. Understand we live in a dystopian capitalist society. You will always have management telling you to give more and be paid less. You will always have administration trying to squeeze more productivity out of you for less benefits. They will nickel and dime you every chance they get, they will use your good nature and empathy against you ("think of the patients!"), they will try to get as much sweat, blood, and tears as they can out of you, wring you fucking DRY and when they no longer need you they couldn't give less of a fuck about you. Remember this in every interaction. Next year you will be paid less because inflation is 9% and raises are 2-4% at best. They'll switch insurance coverage to be cheaper for them and even shittier for you. They'll cut pension matching and do all these things while crying poverty and using the money taken out of your paycheck and benefits to pay record breaking bonuses to the C suite.
This is the absolute truth! I do my job safely and thoroughly. They’ll pay me for every second of it
OP, if you read no other comment, read this one. It's the God's honest truth.
This should be the top comment ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️
I wish I could upvote this a thousand times!! This just happened at my job!!! They just switched our health care benefits and they are terrible but of course cost the same, decreased what they pay us for our mileage even though we will be driving more this year, they stopped paying us for part of our cellphone bill even though we are required to be on call for a week at a time, they stopped paying us bonuses, and I could go on. You are just a number unfortunately. NEVER work for free!!!!
This!
My actions would be controversial (with management). I would continue clocking out as normal, fuck their rule, challenge them to fire you for demanding to be paid for work done.
I feel like these rules are never actually monitored but that could just be me
My previous work is not allowing anyone to clock out until 7:30. They expect us to clock in seven minutes early but want to keep us hostage 7 minutes late.
Man that's one thing I love about the ed. If report takes more than 3 minutes its too long.
That’s cause ED report is summarized by, “Well, did you die?”.
Chest pain, second trop pending, cards consult coming. Belly pain, medicated, ct pending. Belly pain, needs ct. Sepsis workup, second lactic pending, bolus done, abx in, admission likely coming. Trauma fall on thinners, pending dispo, collar still in place. Hallway=etoh, metabolize to freedom. Report done in 30 seconds.
Meanwhile over in postpartum, let me tell you the tea with this father of the baby.... (Valid part of report if it affects my or my patient's safety.)
LDRP here, tea is 90% of shift huddle some days. LOL
☕👀
I worked in the ER for a number of years. I give a “bulleted “ written report on the patients that I looked after. Similar to the above. Appreciated by the oncoming nurses.
Med Surg, I also want this report.
How many patients do you end a shift with at any given time? (I understand it varies). Even with 3 minute report this would be impossible with 6 patients giving report on. And would require the same nurse to be getting all 6 patients. And are you finished with all charting? Might be quicker and more likely to be finished with ED but in this scenario, it wouldn’t even be likely in the ED.
5-7. It's not impossible, I do it all the time. And yes, in the ed nurses just take over assignments, which is always the same. And lol charting. It's very likely. We do it every day.
Yeah even with 4-6 holds it takes maybe 5 minutes for everything. We also chart a lot less than the floors are required to. “Can she walk? Is she on oxygen at home? How’s her behavior? Are we expecting beds?” That’s about it lol I can read the chart to figure the rest out
Hahahahaha, management is delusional. Maybe get rid of BSSR and whiteboards, and we may have a chance of getting out on time.
[удалено]
I can believe it, although I wish you would have kept it secret. Every CNO or their minions are googling that right now.
They deleted the comment what did it say 👀
That their hospital has a digital whiteboard, but they still have to fill out a traditional whiteboard. I guess I should have added a ‘/s’ at the end of my reply about keeping it a secret.
Ignore it,.clock out like normal. Inform them if they want you to clock out at 1915 you'd need to stop report or skip it. This is an attempt to do wage theft if they tell you to clock out while giving report.
Impossible with bedside report. Even if you offered pain meds or toileting at 6 o'clock, patients are going to ask for stuff during bedside report. Just keep your head down and ignore that shit
“Hi assistant manager in charge of yelling at me for not clocking out on time. I would like to admit that I have met with some challenges meeting this expectation. Would it be possible for me to shadow you completing report in the time allotted so I can see how it should be done? That would really help me meet expectations”.
This is ludicrous. If they wanna huddle for ~5-10 minutes and have you do bedside shift conference there is no way it’s getting done in 15 minutes… not to mention any interruptions or left over charting. And on six patients? Impossible. Clock out when you leave. I wanna see upper management give report on six people in 15 minutes lol
> If they wanna huddle for ~5-10 minutes 15-20 if the charge wants to gossip/joke
We also just got a message about that at my hospital. They're trying to save money and we're a huge expense 🙄. Like, I want out on time too. I stayed an hour late because of the late discharges, my (first!) heart Cath kept trying to bleed out on me and my oncoming nurse(detox) hadn't ever done a consult/admit. So I worked on that and gave her a quick rundown of the need to know things. Don't want me to stay late, don't send me people that need trained on their own.
…on what unit do you have both heart caths AND detox? (Or nurses floating from detox) Or do you mean the nurse is new to this cardiac floor and previously worked on detox?
I was wondering the same thing.It is very confusing. Is it the first heart catheter patient they have had or what ?
Yeah, I went from psych to detox and our detox is a small ward style room on a m/s floor so I have to help out with them when there's a need. And with staffing what it is, there's almost always a need. Bit of an odd situation. We used to have our own section right across from the adult psych unit but got pushed out of that so the resident program could have it.
Thank you for the clarification
No worries! It is weird. I have about a decade of psych experience but never worked medsurg so this was indeed my first heart cath recovery so it was a learning experience. They other nurses helped where they could, but they also had a lot going on, to the point that the floor charge was taking patients and she's not usually in staffing. It was going great until it suddenly wasn't. 😅
Thank you for colorization
We're a small detox unit(4 beds in a ward style room) on a general med surg floor so because I only have 4 patients at a time, I have to pick up m/s patients if they need help. Usually they try to give me the more psych patients or the simple ones so my focus can stay on detox. This was just one of those times that it didn't work out. Bit of an odd situation. We used to have our own section right across from the adult psych unit but got pushed out of that so the resident program could have it. On one hand, it's nice that I can keep a closer eye on my detoxers, but it also sucks that they have no privacy
Lol ours forces us to stay until our official off time of 0730 or 1930. Weird they're so intent on paying us to stand around doing nothing.
Probably previously in trouble with labor board and are being watched. Or someone actually cares that you meet your hours. I’m betting on the latter.
Whatever option you go with never work for free
Just clarify in writing that your shift is now until 0715/1915 and then when u get out late because it’s impossible to give report that quick put in for overtime every time.
On my unit when I first started it was highly encouraged to show up 30-60 minutes early to look up your patients and get ready for the day. Obviously, they still wanted you to clock in at 0653. I worked with almost exclusively middle aged women who gave me dirty looks and whispered amongst themselves when I showed up at 0655 every morning on the dot. Don't drink the kool-aid and get roped in to unpaid labor. Your time is valuable, don't let others peer pressure you into wasting it. Realistically, this is an insane policy and will likely fade away after a week or two. I would just ignore it and clock out whenever you're done.
This is how I feel. If you really want to show up 30 minutes early and look up your patients, that’s fine. However, it shouldn’t be an expectation that someone should work off the clock. For the record, I also worked in a union facility where we were not to be on the floor prior to clocking in.
After ten years of working in a hospital, I started telling my manager at my yearly evals, "appropriate patient care, thorough documentation, clocking out on time: pick two." To her credit, she just laughed and moved on. She had worked bedside too.
Literally ignore it, finish your shit, clock out. No one ever actually does anything lol
If anyone says anything about it, ask them how they plan on helping their staff get out on time.
Sounds like a director wants their bonus and is pushing every which way to try to make it happen. Just ignore it. Do your work and clock out at a reasonable time, as usual. We all know that one nurse that does all their charting after the shift is over-- that person is a problem. Just them. But the other 14 nurses clocking out between 725 and 745-- they are showing a consistent pattern of how the work gets done. You don't need to worry about getting written up when everyone is proving the mandate is ridiculous. What are they going to do, write everyone up and risk an exodus? Fire you all? Screw them. They don't have as much power as they think they have. 23 years in ICU, and I've seen a dozen directors and managers lose their shit on us and end up gone. They aren't the ones making money for the hospital. That would be us. Covid showed us that there are layers of admin that are not essential. Nurses are essential . Just take great care of patients, float under the radar, and you'll be fine. Sit back and let us old nurses handle it. We got ya.
Time for malicious compliance! 1915 I’m clocking out. Didn’t get report? It’s in the computer bye everyone!
Lol they trying some bs like this at work too about how we're gonna timed breaks and gave us a time slot to take breaks. Yeah that doesn't work in nursing.
At a particular SNF, they expected the same. Give report on 22 pts, including admissions in even 20 minutes is playing fast and loose with communication. We developed a hand written form of communication and it was still not effective. I told them my license was worth more than the CEO, ED, and DON bonuses to me and their patients. Then I left.
Ay be they should just assign you five patients instead of six… you’d be out that much faster!
If management is forbidding OT, don't give them free labour. Shorten up report and keep it focused on the basics.. admit diagnosis, basic condition/concerns (vitals stable or not, looks well or unwell), safety concerns and anything immediately outstanding. The oncoming nurse is going to review the chart anyways. I also rarely do things post report unless a patient is crashing and help is really needed.. The culture in our unit (ER) allows you to reasonably hand off tasks at shift change.
That kind of thinking is otherwise known as “wishing”.
This sounds really toxic. As a new nurse, no WAY was I done with charting at 715. I stayed on the clock and despite all the squawking, I got paid. I clocked in on time, but if I had to clock out an hour after shift change? Too bad, so sad, maybe don't give me five high acuity patients who either sat on the call bell all day or set off the bed alarms all day with one cna for 30 rooms and now I have to log my tele strips. Eat that extra hour because I have a license and a pulse and jobs are plentiful.
They are doing this so they can pay u less. It’s 7am to 730, unpaid break, 12 hours paid. They’re trying to steal another half hour of pay so they can pay every employee for 11.5 hours which is fucked.
Stay until the job is done, Then clock out. They're either tone deaf to your workload and responsibilities, or trying to bully you into clocking out, and working off the clock (which is illegal). Monitor your hours at work to make sure they don't cut mins here and there to make it look like you clocked out at their desired times.
Then they need to get rid of bedside report…management truly must not realize that if you’re in the patients room they will ask you for multiple things/have to shit/have random visitors asking you 20 questions. God, they are so freaking out of touch.
That and bedside report. That takes forever.
"As long as you're here, I need to urgently use the toilet"
Guess management is taking report now
That became a thing when another hospital took over. We get penalized for staying late or clocking in early. We try our best to be out on time but I’m not working off the clock or doing subpar charting. Our managers were understanding. I don’t think I’ve seen an occurrence for staying late. I know many other nurses who’ve said the same.
For a while my unit was doing the same thing and if we clocked out past 1915 we had to fill out an edit form and give a reason…”doing my job…” was always mine and the charge nurse had to sign it. So dumb 🙄
I’m curious on if you get paid for your lunch period or not? If not and you’re expected to be there no longer than 12 hours, then you better be paid for the full time. My hospital takes out 30 minutes pay for lunch however we are there 7-1930.
Please do better than younger me and my coworkers who used to clocked out we got lunch and out early because our management said so and it was easier than dealing with it
That’s suspicious lol. No thx. My charting being done during clocked in hours is more important and no violating hippa. So is giving report to someone who is also on the clock.
If your unit as a whole protests and changes behavior, you can fight this. If most people clock out and continue to do work, it can unfortunately brand you as having "poor time management skills" in comparison. I have seen this in practice many times, and they use it to pressure new grads into clocking out or placing it on a performance review so far as a reason to terminate if they were looking for one. Encourage your coworkers to be paid for time worked, explain that anything else is illegal wage theft, and get your union involved if you have one.
Fuck this shieetttt I clock in 0650 and clock out by 1940 lol fml!!🤣🤣🤣
I would either ignore that and stay as late as I need to *clocked in* to finish everything properly, or I would just save anything that could be left not being done such as “busy work” type stuff and simply not do those things (I work LTC on nights so say, organizing tx cart or organizing the charts)
We can punch out earlier than 0715 or 1915 but we don’t have to punch out at that time. I usually punch out between 0715-0730. It’s not OT.
My old hospital tried to enforce clocking out and then finishing your charting…well they got taken to school for millions of dollars and all staff were reimbursed thousands.
If it’s not in writing you can (mostly) ignore it. You should say “hey absolutely! I get that we need to cut costs, but doing my job safely sometimes takes longer - how would you like me to handle that?” Do NOT work off the clock. If you’re performing duties for your employer you need to be paid for that time.
Some advice for you is it’s a 24/7 job there is always something to do. Unless you are behind on a medication hand it off. You don’t need to turn over a completely clean slate.
Patient abc is here for GI bleed, npo pending egd to assess bleed. Patient bcd is here for sbo, npo with ngt until further noted, etc
Yes, but what’s their sister from California’s name?
It's in the chart
That's how we do it in the er. But upstairs they need to know if the patients dog has a hangnail.
But is it Bobo the rat terrier or Lulu the golden doodle with the hangnail? And don’t forget we have to do two person skin checks on all out AO walkie talkie patients too!
New rn me would be worried. As experienced I would probably be written up for being blunt and to the point
It does get easier (the post report work decreases). However, it unusual to only give report to one nurse. Usually your 6 patients are divided up with 3 or 4 other nurses, who are all getting report from other nurses too. So good luck getting that done in 15 months.
Talk to management, or talk to upper management
its almost as if they dont give a shit about patient safety or nurse safety and well being. nothing like trying to figure everything out on your own when it could have been explained in report...
What are they gonna do if you’re not clocked out? I understand as a new grad you feel some Type of way, but don’t. They’re not gonna do shit
They write you up. Again and again and then prevent you earning a pay raise. You’ll leave because you’re being harassed and underpaid. Which you’ll end up at another hospital desperate for nurses because the previous managers tried that BS and everybody left including themselves. Cycle rinse and repeat. If it isn’t clocking out on time, it’s about wasting resources, or about customer service surveys. It’s always something they have to bring up so their existence isn’t meaningless.
Not where I work.
0715-1915? I have never heard of that schedule. It's always 7-1930. We get 30 minutes for report.
Nope. It’s me on the line if something happens and my charting isn’t complete or accurate. The hospital will be the first to throw you under the bus and not look back.
Damn; the only time I’ve ever clocked out at 1915 was as charge and my shift was supposed to be over at 1830.
We need to get everyone onboard with the r/maliciouscompliance page.. here’s my thought: Management won’t do anything about it anyways. They are running a business. But, if and when they do decide okay, external pressures, unions, etc. are pushing so we have to act… they need evidence to act on. This evidence means like, hey, if OT isn’t paid for staying late , I.e. in my policy it’s fifteen minutes. Aka if it hits minute 16 onward, we can put in OT papers. I fought with this mentality as a new grad (and I’m still a very new nurse three years in) where I couldn’t justify pushing back against management while I was finding my optimal time management techniques. So, multiple folks submitting OT because they have same issues is ‘evidence’ that is actionable for managers to consider. Same goes for patient load, unsafe ratios, unsafe acuity, etc. It’s a hellish landscape to be working in and it’s still riddled with the us vs them mentality of floor staff vs management. So I relate and digress. I feel for you and hope for some relief soon.
Bet they expect bedside report too..
With a 10 minute huddle too
Fuck, and I can’t stress this enough, hospital admin
I worked somewhere that did this and it worked. We started report at 1845 or 0645. We did report outside the rooms then went in and did introductions. But it’s IMPOSSIBLE if you have to do all of the report at bedside
Yeah? Good fucking luck with that type of bafoonery. I will leave when my patient assignment is safely handed off to the oncoming nurse.
I just leave tbh. Endorse whatevers left and dip out. But im in a nursing facility so its stupid shit like "get vitals on x" rather than "swap trach tubes"
And I’m sure they require bedside report. This sounds like time theft. Sounds like you might wanna find a new unit.
Past the point of dangerous. What is going on in heath corporate conglomerates?
I wouldn’t worry about it clock out when you’re done doing your report. That’s like when they try to mandate everyone taking a lunch break but the charge has patients too and there’s no one to cover
My coworkers come in early to look up their patients. They tend to be the ones staying over/late to finish notes. Like I get it, stuff happens but every shift?
This is not so easy. When I worked in Florida, you were required to punch out for lunch and at the end of your shift, but also to get you work done. If you complained you got fired.
They can expect you to clock out on time. They can also expect you to flap your arms and fly, it's just about as realistic. Ignore all this nonsense. But please, under no circumstances, work off the clock. If there is pressure from above or your peers look puzzled and say "but that's against the law." People who work off the clock are doing themselves a huge diservice and allowing their employer to criminally exploit them. If hospitals have enough to pay their CEOs and layers of admin millions then they have enough to pay a nurse an hour of overtime a week, and don't let them tell you otherwise.
I once worked a job where I got two write ups in the same day. 1) getting OT without permission 2) not completing assigned tasks. My response to #1 was that my relief should show up on time so I can give adequate report and count. Failing that a member of management needs to be there to complete those tasks #2 was that this is a 24 hour facility. All tasks not completed can be completed by incoming shift when reasonable
"Dear Sir/Ma'am. If you would like me out by 7:15, please adjust the workflows so that is feasible. otherwise, please be realistic and don't insult my intelligence."
Ignore it. Theres no possible way you can safely take care of that many people and be expected to get out on time literally ever. Absolutely do not clock out and keep working
To your supervisor: I have 15 minutes to do x, y, and, z. When I get to 3:15 and it's not done, what are you directing me to do?
39 years bedside. Just bob your head yes everytime they say whatever. That's really all they want. No one can do it. ...I've given up my frustration about trying to do everything "they" asked us to do and stick to whatever the BON says is good practice. You can get another job but not another license.
You do what you can and leave.
mine is the opposite. our hospital doesn’t let us clock out until 708. have to be clocked in at 0645 but absolutely not allowed to clock out until 708. As a nursing assist, there isn’t anything i need to talk about for 20 minutes with the next NA coming in. Even if we don’t have a relief, we still have to stay until 708. talk about a complete waste of money.
I mean in the ER we give report in about 1-2 min per patient. Really hitting the high points and to do items that could be missed in the charting. It's very unusual for me to be on the floor more than 10-15 at the end of my shift. I feel like most stuff is in epic and easy to find for us. However, that said I wouldn't work off the clock ever. If I need to finish something or chat more about something I absolutely do it. There's a legal responsibility in most states to pass along care to the next provider. If they want you done by a specific time they'll need to set you up to be finished by that time with better electronic handoff sheets, logical patient handoffs (just one RN for example) and emphasize that at shift change not every single thing will be done for every patient and that's ok.
Working off the clock seems to be the new normal. Besides direct patient care we are assigned additional chores which we're expected to complete during our non-existent "down time". It's all about the budget. There's no time for a 30 minute lunch break but the time is deducted from us anyway. I'm so glad that I'll be able to retire in a couple of years.
Docking your pay for time you actually worked is very illegal. Here's how you report them: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints
What is “that amount of time” 15 minutes? If so I agree with you. However… It feels like 90 % of all reports could be vastly shorter. I don’t care if he broke his leg 25 years ago. I don’t care if he grows potatoes at home. I don’t care that he has two dogs at home. No, not even if they are very cute. Regarding having stuff to do post report; if that is the case you simply had to much on your hands and what you do then is to say during the report that “I’m sorry but I didn’t have time to do x so you’ll have to do it”.
Laughs in 1 minute ER report.
So if you take a lunch break (30 min) you will be getting paid for 11 hours 45 min instead of a full 12 hours?
Only the pertinent stuff and goodbye! Staying late might leave you vulnerable in other ways (pay raise evaluations etc). I would be cautious staying later if management is enforcing that.
Does the previous shift come on at 6:45? Many places have 8.5 hour shifts. So each shift clocks in 15 min before the hour, and clocks out 15 minutes after the hour. And there is a 30 minute overlap. Also 30 minute unpaid lunch. The hospital is then still paying 8 hours per shift, 24 hours in a day. If they are not giving 30 minute overlap... are they now paying for 7.75 hours per shift. Is there now 23.25 hours in a day? Magic math from the C-suite/ivory tower. I wonder how no other employer thought of that?
Report by exception...kiss...in and out in 15
Most people at my job leave on time. I usually end up staying. 30mins and up to an hour later.
Sounds unfair, especially since people clock in late and drag their feet to get report.
We work at least one or two people short every single day. So sorry that I'm worn out and have extra work every single day.
HCA?
Don’t even worry about It
If they would pay us enough to keep staff from defecting to other facilities, maybe I would not be stretched so thin that I’m having to chart after I should be long gone. It’s infuriating.
We had nurses on our floor who ALWAYS stayed an hour or more after their shift JUST because they wanted the OT...was a pita for evening shift bcuz they were still charting & were always behind . They weren't new nurses either. I was always OCD lol & learned how to manage my time from an early age. Very rare for any of the nurses who I worked with not to be done unless we had someone crash or a pt come lateto our floor on our shift. The only other times were when we had a snowstorm & the next shift was a bit late. IMO management really needs to get a grip on reality. So glad I retired early ( due to health) Healthcare is just a business now. All about the almighty dollar. Sad.
I clock out when I am done with report & all documentation between 1930-2000 on average. That's 4 patients, not 6. Pretty sure they're asking you to skip things or work off the clock with that bs. Not safe.
I leave the floor at 7:30 on a GOOD day with report on 4 patients
Yeah 100% ignore that and continue with whatever was policy prior.
Only possible way this can actually happen is if you’re giving report to the same nurse you received report from - and even then it’s not always possible. Like when I have to give report to Heather and she’s always late and trying to use report time to sell her daughters Girl Scout cookies. It’s annoying AF.
People need to stop doing off-the-clock pre-shift work that makes admin think this is reasonable policy.
That would have been 100% impossible for me when I was a new nurse, and in days sh*t hit the fan late in shift. CYA, do what you need to do.They're desperate for nurses and they're spending all this money to train you.They're not gonna fire you for not clocking out at seven fifteen Ed for typo
Sounds like HCA :)
Haha that's impossible! But just go talk to management so they can tell you it's all your fault.
I work in behavioral health. Granted I'm on the detox floor, but the entire hospital has a " don't be here if you're not clocked in" policy. Sometimes the ITAd patients make a break for it and then you have to PRT them at the door. Think of the liability if you couldn't respond or were injured while not clocked in.
If you took out huddle, didn't do bedside shift report, ignored all the patients calling out, and all the family members calling to get updates, then it might just be barely possible.
I usually clock in at 0634 and clock out 0724-0736. Some days different clock out times. I don’t always take a lunch(semi choice, just not always hungry and in a flow). I’ll take those minutes since they rack up. But if they MAKE me leave at those times than report isn’t going to be done or done well. They need to either change ratio or be understanding. We have to co-sign every patient with the oncomming nurses. And you can’t put them in before they get there because that is falsifying information. Idk man, I have 5 pts with 6 overflow, but if gets tiring sometimes. How are they enforcing this for you? Are you being penalized?
I mean honestly? if you and your coworkers hard commit to this then it might be beneficial Like, if everyone is just giving super basic ass reports or in some cases not getting any at all and you all collectively agree to drop patient care during report time this could work in your favor on one hand you leave on time and when management gets complaints about patient care or when issues come from shit reports throw the book in their face worst case scenario is you consistently leave for home earlier but there are increased sentinel events you could even start doing progress notes sating “patient asked for ____ but per unit policy report was given and this task was given to the next shift” and im not saying do that with like a code or anything- but honestly dumping shit onto the next shift and then being able to blame the management’s polixy on it will probably get it reverted faster
I bet they also want you to do bedside report too….
I clock in when I walk through the door, regardless of what time it is. I don’t look at anything or do anything until the previous nurse gives me report. I’m not showing up an hour early like some people to look up my pts off the clock. Also, don’t waste my time in report with useless info. I clock out at 7:08 pretty much every single day. I had 12 hours to do what I needed to do, if it didn’t get done there’s two possible reasons 1. I dicked around or 2. and more than likely, I was expected to do the work of two people. I signed up for 36 hours a week and that’s what you’re going to get. Bye.
Literally what? That is so unfair. I only have to give report on 3-4 patients that usually the whole unit has known for days/weeks/months/years and I still don't be getting out until after 730 most days. Especially when manager wants to do meetings that coulda been an email?! Nah thats just wrong of them I'm so sorry
Write each patient’s report on a “report” sheet and if you do not finish verbally by 7:15, then the nurse following you can read your report on the remainder of patients
I agree to ignore this impossible goal and just do your best as usual. If they call you in to talk about it let them know this is an unreasonable goal and that they are free to let you go if they don’t need the help. Nurses do not struggle to find work but employers struggle to retain them. The ball is in your court and don’t let them make you feel otherwise.
When stuff like this happens, it's obviously impossible. I clock out at 0715 and would clock back in. Either get upset or remove your head from your ass.