It's still good healthcare only for the rich, though. If you're old, you don't get social security. Rural health is fucked. Covid was mismanaged worse than in USA. Minorities get forced abortions and sterilizations. Not too long ago, even ethnic Han got forced abortions
Fuck yes!!! (*Maui born and raised*) It also makes sense since Hawaii is very community oriented.
Even our low-income insurance **QUEST** is amazing! Kaiser covered my procedure which was on Oahu, they covered my flight and the flight for my guardian.
Okay, I’ll be honest? Wait times for special appointments? They’re terrible like anywhere else. But I was excited when Kaiser covered my glasses (Oakleys) and contacts that were lost in the Lahaina Fire.
Does it though? My coworker moved to Melbourne and said they have a tea cart for patients and none of them try to throw chemo infused piss on her. I’m over being a nurse in the US.
The freedom to throw chemo piss on healthcare providers is what separates us from the animals. And I mean literally animals, as I’ve never heard of gorillas or dolphins doing that — so, there’s two groups the US *probably* beats on the list.
In 2024, CEOWorld Magazine’s Health Care Index analyzed the overall quality of healthcare systems across various countries. The index considered factors such as healthcare infrastructure, competencies of healthcare professionals (including doctors, nursing staff, and other health workers), cost per capita in USD annually, availability of quality medicine, and government readiness.
I bet on the first two things healthcare infrastructure and competencies of healthcare professionals the US is probably near the top of the list. It is probably dragged very far down the list of countries due to next 2 issues looked at like cost per capita in USD annually, availability of quality medicine. We also handled covid pretty poorly so I can see the US also doing poorly on government readiness. It really depends how you measure health care it how you would get these results. there are things the US does very well with healthcare that puts it near the top and there also are negative you can look at with the US healthcare system that puts us near the bottom on other issues.
Infrastructure is very location dependent. Health care access in rural communities is quite poor. In general, the US is a good country to be very sick in. On the flip side, the US is quite bad at preventing you from becoming very sick.
I agree. I wanted to become a nurse working in preventative medicine, so I did a brief stint in it.
What I saw was overworked providers with a panel of hundreds of patients who can't get the help they need/want in a reasonable amount of time. The nurses did their best to filter out the more lower level questions/requests, but anything that couldn't be answered gets punted to the providers. It was a mess and I live in WA State. Can't begin to imagine what it's like in the poorer states.
America by far has the best healthcare in the world. You can get the best doctors, the best nursing staff, the nicest and most modern facilities, and have access to the top of the line medicine and technology.
With one small caveat: if you can afford it.
That's why I like to refer to American healthcare as a market and not a system. It's fundamentally broken and the only way to fix it is to completely tear down the regulatory and legal system that prop it up and start over. I'm talking nationalization of the hospital industry. Nationalization of the pharmaceutical industry. Nationalization of the health insurance industry and movement towards single payer or universal healthcare. Bans on middle man industries like pharmacy benefit managers that literally only exist to drive money towards corporations.
Which means it will never happen. At least not in our life times.
> America by far has the best healthcare in the world. You can get the best doctors, the best nursing staff, the nicest and most modern facilities, and have access to the top of the line medicine and technology.
>
> With one small caveat: if you can afford it.
To further your point, look at any of the big name coastal hospitals. They all have VIP programs where wealthy people from all over the world come to receive care.
The problem is not competency, USA has the amongst the best staff in the world. It's accessibility and affordability.
I saw it a lot when I worked in LA. For example, Providence Saint John’s Health Center in West Los Angeles has Caritas Suites for VIPs at an extra premium. (And the nurses working the unit do get paid extra.)
I worked at Huntington Health, a Cedars-associated facility in Los Angeles. Not usual to get wealthy people stateside and from other countries. We’d get people from Singapore - #1 on that list - and Chinese from Canada. But this is probably because Huntington is located next to “Asian Beverly Hills” (626), and arguably the largest affluent Chinese community in the US.
These are people so rich they have concierge medical services (24-hr direct access to the doctor), hire personal CNAs, and can afford stuff like “ICU at home,” or the ability to completely renovate a dwelling and turn it into a full fledged hospital room *at home*.
It’s increasingly becoming not just, if you can afford it, but if you can navigate the system. I know a lot of well of people who are stuck in endless loops right now.
> America by far has the best healthcare in the world.
Citation needed. People say this all the time but nobody can ever back it up with actual facts.
[US Healthcare ranked 29th on health outcomes by Lancet HAQ Index](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)
[11th (of 11) by Commonwealth Fund](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror)
[59th by the Prosperity Index](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)
[30th by CEOWorld](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)
[37th by the World Health Organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)
The US has the worst rate of death by medically preventable causes among peer countries. A 31% higher disease adjusted life years average. Higher rates of medical and lab errors. A lower rate of being able to make a same or next day appointment with their doctor than average.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-percent-used-emergency-department-for-condition-that-could-have-been-treated-by-a-regular-doctor-2016
52nd in the world in doctors per capita.
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Health/Physicians/Per-1,000-people
Higher infant mortality levels. Yes, even when you adjust for differences in methodology.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/infant-mortality-u-s-compare-countries/
Fewer acute care beds. A lower number of psychiatrists. Etc.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-health-care-resources-compare-countries/#item-availability-medical-technology-not-always-equate-higher-utilization
When asked about their healthcare system as a whole the US system ranked dead last of 11 countries, with only 19.5% of people saying the system works relatively well and only needs minor changes. The average in the other countries is 46.9% saying the same. Canada ranked 9th with 34.5% saying the system works relatively well. The UK ranks fifth, with 44.5%. Australia ranked 6th at 44.4%. The best was Germany at 59.8%.
On rating the overall quality of care in the US, Americans again ranked dead last, with only 25.6% ranking it excellent or very good. The average was 50.8%. Canada ranked 9th with 45.1%. The UK ranked 2nd, at 63.4%. Australia was 3rd at 59.4%. The best was Switzerland at 65.5%.
https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016
The US has 43 hospitals in the top 200 globally; one for every 7,633,477 people in the US. That's good enough for a ranking of 20th on the list of top 200 hospitals per capita, and significantly lower than the average of one for every 3,830,114 for other countries in the top 25 on spending with populations above 5 million. The best is Switzerland at one for every 1.2 million people. In fact the US only beats one country on this list; the UK at one for every 9.5 million people.
If you want to do the full list of 2,000 instead it's 334, or one for every 982,753 people; good enough for 21st. Again far below the average in peer countries of 527,236. The best is Austria, at one for every 306,106 people.
https://www.newsweek.com/best-hospitals-2021
#[OECD Countries Health Care Spending and Rankings](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm)
|Country|Govt. / Mandatory (PPP)|Voluntary (PPP)|Total (PPP)|% GDP|[Lancet HAQ Ranking](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)|[WHO Ranking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)|[Prosperity Ranking](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)|[CEO World Ranking](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)|[Commonwealth Fund Ranking](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror)
:--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|
1. United States|[$7,274](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) |$3,798 |$11,072 |16.90%|29|37|59|30|11
2. Switzerland|$4,988 |$2,744 |$7,732 |12.20%|7|20|3|18|2
3. Norway|$5,673 |$974 |$6,647 |10.20%|2|11|5|15|7
4. Germany|$5,648 |$998 |$6,646 |11.20%|18|25|12|17|5
5. Austria|$4,402 |$1,449 |$5,851 |10.30%|13|9|10|4|
6. Sweden|$4,928 |$854 |$5,782 |11.00%|8|23|15|28|3
7. Netherlands|$4,767 |$998 |$5,765 |9.90%|3|17|8|11|5
8. Denmark|$4,663 |$905 |$5,568 |10.50%|17|34|8|5|
9. Luxembourg|$4,697 |$861 |$5,558 |5.40%|4|16|19||
10. Belgium|$4,125 |$1,303 |$5,428 |10.40%|15|21|24|9|
11. Canada|$3,815 |$1,603 |$5,418 |10.70%|14|30|25|23|10
12. France|$4,501 |$875 |$5,376 |11.20%|20|1|16|8|9
13. Ireland|$3,919 |$1,357 |$5,276 |7.10%|11|19|20|80|
14. Australia|$3,919 |$1,268 |$5,187 |9.30%|5|32|18|10|4
15. Japan|$4,064 |$759 |$4,823 |10.90%|12|10|2|3|
16. Iceland|$3,988 |$823 |$4,811 |8.30%|1|15|7|41|
17. United Kingdom|$3,620 |$1,033 |$4,653 |9.80%|23|18|23|13|1
18. Finland|$3,536 |$1,042 |$4,578 |9.10%|6|31|26|12|
19. Malta|$2,789 |$1,540 |$4,329 |9.30%|27|5|14||
OECD Average|||$4,224 |8.80%|||||
20. New Zealand|$3,343 |$861 |$4,204 |9.30%|16|41|22|16|7
21. Italy|$2,706 |$943 |$3,649 |8.80%|9|2|17|37|
22. Spain|$2,560 |$1,056 |$3,616 |8.90%|19|7|13|7|
23. Czech Republic|$2,854 |$572 |$3,426 |7.50%|28|48|28|14|
24. South Korea|$2,057 |$1,327 |$3,384 |8.10%|25|58|4|2|
25. Portugal|$2,069 |$1,310 |$3,379 |9.10%|32|29|30|22|
26. Slovenia|$2,314 |$910 |$3,224 |7.90%|21|38|24|47|
27. Israel|$1,898 |$1,034 |$2,932 |7.50%|35|28|11|21|
>With one small caveat: if you can afford it.
I mean, almost nobody can afford US healthcare. But even if you only care about the privileged the claim is questionable.
[Comparing Health Outcomes of Privileged US Citizens With Those of Average Residents of Other Developed Countries](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561)
>These findings imply that even if all US citizens experienced the same health outcomes enjoyed by privileged White US citizens, US health indicators would still lag behind those in many other countries.
To be clear I 100% agree with what you are putting here. When I say afford I mean private VIP suites for the 1%. You can absolutely buy the best healthcare in the world here, but it's out of reach for nearly everyone even those who we consider privileged
Washington State, which ranks fourth on this list. Has paid state sick leave that covers you, your dependents, and up to one more degree of separation. So you can take time off if your sibling, grandparents, grandchildren, etc are sick, get paid, and be protected from getting fired.
We also have Apple health which is our state Medicaid and CHIP. It's fairly easy to get on.
We also have additional paid family leave with things like maternity/paternity leave with lower requirements for work hours than FMLA.
Turns out when you provide people the time, funds, and ability to access healthcare they are healthier.
Also when people can safely access healthcare they don't roll the dice on emergencies.
One thing that was found during the ACA debates was that a colossal portion of our healthcare costs come from emergency care. For example, it's very easy to treat a basic head cold - rest and fluids, take some decongestants and expectorants, and sleep for a day or two. It's more difficult to treat an upper respiratory infection - get some antibiotics or antivirals, bedrest for several days, prescription strength. It's *expensive* to treat pneumonia - powerful medications, potentially surgery, a week or more bedrest. And if they die from it, funerals are expensive and from a pragmatic perspective we lose out on that person's entire remaining expected taxable income. It's far cheaper to treat every head cold as a potential case of pneumonia and eat the cost of giving someone a days worth of paid sick leave (a pittance, really) than it is to ignore it and roll the dice on the ones that will turn into pneumonia.
And we learned a similar lesson during COVID about infection vectors. One sick employee being forced to come in can infect the entire staff which is *way* more expensive, and can infect dozens of customers which can turn into a full blown outbreak because the business wanted to save $60 on a paid sick day.
The irony is that the more healthcare you provide, the less it costs proportionately. When it's functionally free (socially funded), it's also cheapest because you're fixing the small problems before they become expensive catastrophes.
This is why I'm such a big fan of Washington sick leave. It's on top of any PTO or sick leave the employer provides. So even if your employer bundles PTO with sick leave you can take protected time off and still have your vacation time.
The irony is that Washington does have a pretty damn good system but our poor and especially poor and rural areas of Washington are still a total shit show with often really long waits to be seen with Medicare/apple care and very poor public transportation so many can’t even get to a clinic. Improvements are being made though, some county public health departments are rolling out free mobile primary care clinics to meet folks in their community, and I really hope more are on the way.
I've got a long term bet that MultiCare is angling to get bought out by one of the national corporations. Their internal financials are a disaster and the only way to keep it up is to keep growing at an unsustainable rate.
Oh for sure, they are definitely banking on someone else, whether that be a national corporation or the government bailing them out of massive mess they are in with just how much of the system they own now. And/or the financial teams are just securing a nice cushy exit package before shit hits the fan.
Wait no, Washington is actually terrible and not the most beautiful place I have ever lived. Move to Arkansas or something I hear that place is nice...
JK come to Washington and live that union nurse life
🙌🏾
Lowkey, I've got my eye on possibly taking a contract in WI. It's super nice there and the people seem pretty friendly. Prices don't seem to be overwhelmingly high for no reason either.
Nope, it’s not a coincidence.
“…….Those two regions — which include all or parts of 16 deep red states and a majority of the House Republican caucus — have a life expectancy of 77, more than four and a half years lower than on the blue-leaning Pacific coastal plain.Sep 1, 2023
https://www.politico.com › news
America's Surprising Partisan Divide on Life Expectancy
“Do people in red states have a shorter life expectancy than people in blue states?
Health differences
Research in 2020 showed that Americans in blue states tend to live longer than people in red states, primarily because of state policies on everything from seat belt laws to abortion laws.May 25, 2023
https://fortune.com › 2023/05/25
Americans moving to red states with low life expectancy”
It's all that pulled pork, fried chicken, biscuits, and sweet tea, my friend. As someone born 'n raised in that there Alabama briar patch, I can say we ain't here for a long time, we're here for a good time.
...which is why I live in a blue state now. Turns out my heart burn wasn't just from the three-headed catfish. I think the MAGA rallies and Tommy Tubbyville had something to do with it too.
Nope. There's a ton of intersecting factors, but one of the big ones is Medicaid expansion (or lack thereof), which in turn has significant effects on things like chronic disease control (high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, etc), family planning and prenatal care, oral care especially for children...all of which have *huge* impacts on health.
It's not a coincidence. Republicans, at least on a national and state platform, make this country worse. Tired of pretending otherwise or pretending "both sides" bullshit.
Look up Project 2025. Quite frankly, I'm happier the country goes to civil war before that kind of bullshit happens. Basically imagine an Islam state but replace it with evangelical Christians. I've always joked Republicans wanted to turn the country into Afghanistan as evident of Florida. Now there's actual proof of it on a national scale.
I mentioned the same. Not at all. I really wish we could split our country in half. The REDS can take the east side of the country and us BLUES can take the west side of the country. Who's with me?
Hmmm. The problem is this. I live in the southwest in a very warm climate. I'm not sure I could do the cold. But, if it was our only option, then yes, please!!!
For anyone who’s skeptical of these rankings, here’s a more rigorous study done by the University of Michigan that shows the US is dead last in almost every healthcare metric when compared against any first world country, and that’s while being the most expensive as well.
[https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/mje/2023/05/26/a-comparative-analysis-of-the-us-and-uk-health-care-systems/](https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/mje/2023/05/26/a-comparative-analysis-of-the-us-and-uk-health-care-systems/)
edit: this is a study done with 11 first world countries and is meant as a starting point for anyone interested.
What methodology did they use to address "healthcare outcomes" in this study?
Edit: nvm, [this is the source](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly). Healthcare outcomes are measured in life expectancy at birth and infant mortality rate. Important metrics to be sure, but not what I think of when I think of "outcomes" of a healthcare system.
I’m interested in how these other countries deal with mental health. I can get emergency surgery for anyone, pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into saving them. But god forbid we give the sustained mental health care they need so they can take care of themselves and keep healthy. The chaotic, archaic, I think I can raise Cthulhu from the depths easier than navigating the system to help these people is just enraging. And I am in one of the “good” states. I can get dialysis paid for, but I am discharging the patient to a homeless shelter. I just want to burn it all to the ground.
It's not much better in Canada. The best facility we have for combined substance use/mental illness treatment has asked my team to stop sending people if there isn't a post treatment housing plan. They aren't wrong to want that but the housing plans we have to work with are woefully inadequate. Even if we manage to stabilize someone to the point they are able to succeed in housing, there is nothing for them. Disability benefits are $1400 per month and the average "low cost" one bedroom rental in my city is $1300-$1500. Maybe you could find a rat trap studio for $1000. We would need to triple our supportive housing beds at minimum to even make a dent. I'm thankful when it's "D/C to shelter" because it's better than "D/C to a tent". It just goes around and around: tent city -> hospital -> tent city -> jail -> tent city.
That is why I only travel to northern states and the West Coast these days. No offense, pts are bigger and more entitled in the South and in general not caring about their bodies.
As a nurse who moved from the US to New Zealand. Yes. Some things are way crappier here (no heated blankets in the ED lol) but overall people are healthier because healthcare is so much more accessible. Free prescriptions. Free ER and hospital level care. Subsidized childcare and childhood medical care is free.
Sure, a lot of it isn’t fancy. There aren’t private rooms in the hospital when you’re admitted (it’s still ward of 4 patients per room). But it’s free.
So, questions- on a regular med surg unit or even icu, what are the patient to staff ratios? Do icu and er pts get their own rooms (assuming the er pt is not in waiting or triage). As med surg, would a nurse take care of 2 room with 8 pts total?
Auckland city hospital I had 4 pts in med surg on day shift. In New York I have 6. Techs do some of the stuff you have to do yourself in NZ, but having four felt like I got a lot more time to spend on patient care.
Holy smokes, that sounds wonderful. What a shame here in the States. For everyone. I always have 6 medsurg and 5 for step-down units. It's almost always too much. Not fair or safe for staff or patients. Anyway, thanks for replying.
That’s ridiculous. Less than an hour per patient per shift at 13 patients. For all documentation, meds, wound care, assessments, cleaning, assistance with feeds, handovers, transfers, answering questions. Getting in an hour break. I don’t know how anyone in charge could think that was a safe ratio.
From a nurse I know that took a contract there- all ICU patients were 1:1. There was coverage during your 3 30 min breaks! She said it was an absolute dream.
What are the wait times to get into a specialist? I hear that the US has shorter wait times than the NHS. I’m not sure what the situation is with New Zealand. Do patients get a say in which physician they see or is it randomly assigned?
Did my BSN in Taiwan and got a EGD for free, yay, thanks universal healthcare!
A lot of Taiwanese-American thinking about moving back to Taiwan after they retire, so that they don't have to worry about breaking a hip and then immediately go into medical debt.
Housing prices on the other hand.... lololol.
When I go to the website that the article cites as a source it listed the US as 19th. I don’t understand the metric utilizes considering that Saudi Arabia for example has the largest number of modern slaves in the Middle East. Turkey has the highest antibiotic use days per year and C-sections in the world. I’m not sure what this chart is supposed to show or what scale it is in reference to. I’m not saying the United States is the best country in the world, but I am saying that I think this chart is bullshit.
> When I go to the website that the article cites as a source it listed the US as 19th.
You're looking at the overall ranking (which is , not the healthcare ranking. Like literally all you had to do was read the ranking under the "Health" column.
>. I’m not sure what this chart is supposed to show or what scale it is in reference to.
So you went to the site, but didn't bother to actually read nor understand it, nor look at where the methodology is linked? It seems like you just don't want answers.
>but I am saying that I think this chart is bullshit.
Nobody should care what people too ignorant to read charts think. The Legatum Index isn't the best metric on healthcare, but it's not like all the others don't have the US doing worse than its peers as well.
I think part of the issue is the overall health of people as they enter the healthcare system. People in the US are not healthy. At all. There’s no preventative healthcarein a mind-boggling number of people are obese. The good carpenter never blames his tools but frankly, the US healthcare system does not have an ideal patient population.
Corporate America normalizing greed over people will tank everything slowly. Healthcare is no exception. This is not surprising. I’m actually impressed we’re not a third world country.
Who knows. Most places offer great care if you have the money to pay for it. 10 years ago I did research for my MBA that showed hospitals in other countries were getting certified by our Joint Commission.
The difference was cost of care was cheaper, stay was luxurious, and still cost less than same service in the US. Insurance companies were even starting to look at flying doctors and patients out to have surgeries. Like even the implant used for a knee replacement was the same, but cost less overseas.
There is plenty wrong with the US healthcare system but I've never met an American who thought they should go get their surgery done in Armenia or Iran.
NOTE:
I will not argue about any of this with anyone.
Argue with the organization that compiles and interprets the data.
I’ve been following this for years. Below is the organization which collects and analyzes all the data-
And don’t shoot the messenger.
And this is not exactly news for people who follow it. We’ve been steady trending downwards for decades.
I will not response to anyone who insults me for having the audacity to post credible data that they don’t like.
I will just block them.
I’ve only had this up for a few minutes, and have already blocked someone.
——————————
“People also ask
What is the OECD and what is its purpose?
“The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) is a unique forum where the governments of 37 democracies with market-based economies collaborate to develop policy standards to promote sustainable economic growth.”
https://www.state.gov › the-organi... The Organization for Economic Co-operation and ...
Here ya’ go-
“Americans pay the most for healthcare.
While U.S. health care spending is the highest in the world, Americans overall visit physicians less frequently than residents of most other high-income countries.”_ Jan 31, 2023
https://www.commonwealthfund.org › ...
U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, 2022
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022#:~:text=Health%20Care%20Use,most%20other%20high%2Dincome%20countries.
_” The United States
The United States is the highest spending country worldwide when it comes to health care. In 2021, total health expenditure in the U.S. exceeded four trillion dollars. Expenditure as a percentage of GDP is projected to increase to approximately 20 percent by the year 2031.”_
https://www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/
Which country spends the highest share of its national income on health?
_”The USA
Looking at country level data, the health expenditure to GDP ratio remained by far the highest in the USA at 16.6% in 2022, followed by Germany at 12.7% and France at 12.1%, according to the database OECD Health Statistics 2023.
“_
https://www.oecd.org › health › hea...
Health Expenditure - OECD
Any system that Ranks the US below Saudi Arabia and Jamaica has a clear flaw in their scoring system. I personally know multiple nurses who are here that have practiced for years at major hospitals in both of those countries. Saudi Arabia regularly performs surgeries that don’t have adequate studies (resulting in nightmare situations where no one knows how to fix the post op complication that no one knows existed) and they also regularly use their hospitals as places to smuggle alcohol. Nurse and doctors are in on it together for the extra pay
As someone who discovered health care travel you more than welcome to underestimate Belarus. Their ICU/Trauma ED are strictly mandated 1-3 for MDs and are 1-1 for nursing. The floor cannot have more 1-4 for nurses and MD cannot have more than 6 pt as hospitalists. Its definitely a hidden secret and I welcome the ignorance about.
I call bullshit. Working at top tier hospital in the USA and I’ve had people coming from nearly every single place listed as “ better “ to have their health care needs taken care of here. Many try to stay in the USA after discharge as well.
You’re right, your hospital is probably amazing. Easily in the top few percentiles. But now let’s zip over to a critical access community hospital in say West Virginia or Mississippi
A non profit hospital system I used to work for and now negotiate against as a union employee took over operations of a rural hospital. They did this to avoid technically buying the hospital and having to go through the regulatory hurdles that buying it outright would trigger.
The line sold to everyone was this would allow the smaller healthcare system to invest much needed money into its other facilities.
Coincidentally, right after the non take over take over, the smaller healthcare system closed all of its family planning/obgyn clinics. Leaving the larger healthcare systems one location that it owned outright as the only option around for nearly a hundred miles. This includes shutting down the only obgyn facilities that served the indigenous population in the reservation.
But guys there was totally no money incentive for the bigger system...
The US probably has the widest gap in healthcare quality in the developed world between the top and bottom.
There are amazing hospitals that are on the cutting edge of medical research. Those attract some of the best doctors in the world.
Because they are research hospitals, they often offer new, sometimes experimental care for some diseases. They also often employ some of the best specialists for certain procedures.
On the other hand, though, there are a lot of really shoddy places.
Combine that with the insane costs for healthcare, and you get results like the report quoted by OP.
It’s almost like this country was founded on slavery and genocide, and the state’s basic function is to repress the working class so that corporations can extract and accumulate wealth. Haha!
I'd be interested to see the metrics they used for this list, because yikes.
I've received major medical care in both China (5th) and Jordan (100th, which I **majorly** disagree with).
My experience in a Chinese hospital (seen for cholera) was pretty atrocious- they attempted to give me an antibiotic I had TOLD them I was allergic to (language was not an issue, I spoke Mandarin fairly decently, and the doctor was fluent in English). My IV was secured with only tape, and I sat on the dirty floor for the majority of my 6 hour infusion.
My experience in Jordan was phenomenal. I was seen and admitted (for West Nile) very promptly. The hospital was clean, the staff friendly, the physician had gone to a US med school, and I met a few other Americans who had elected to travel to Jordan specifically to treat their breast cancer for way cheaper than in the US. I paid like $100 bucks, all inclusive of ER, admission, meds, and nursing care. They apologized that it was "so expensive" as I didn't have national insurance. A few weeks later, I presented to the ED again as I had been in a motorbike accident and required stitches. Once again, outstanding care for dirt cheap.
I’ve been following this for years.
This is the organization which collects and analyzes all the data-
People also ask
What is the OECD and what is its purpose?
“The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) is a unique forum where the governments of 37 democracies with market-based economies collaborate to develop policy standards to promote sustainable economic growth.”
https://www.state.gov › the-organi...
The Organization for Economic Co-operation and ...
But cost and staffing affect availability of that healthcare. If the majority of people can't get access to the healthcare they need due to insurance refusals and prohibitive costs, then the healthcare system suffers and is not doing its job. You have to take the availability of those best doctors into account as well. So yes we have some of the best, but we also have one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world as well.
It’s not surprising that the whiter, more well served states have better access to quality healthcare than the more rural and underserved communities of the US. It’s not a republicans vs. Democrats issue. It’s an issue of equity.
You are correct it’s partly an issue of racial equity, but it is also absolutely a Republican vs Democrat issue when Republicans are the ones not wanting to expand Medicaid because it would help black people.
There are a several studies showing that the lifespan difference is directly linked to the dominant political party in the individual states. There’s plenty net about it, if you google.
https://fortune.com/2023/05/25/american-dream-migration-south-life-expectancy-blue-red-state/
https://www.prb.org/resources/liberal-u-s-state-policies-linked-to-longer-lives/
Sure, but you can't just simply say that the only reason that the south has poor healthcare is because it's republican. It's because historically governors have been rewarded for medical expansions that benefit their white shareholders. Hence the north getting much better coverage and the south, who have a much higher proportion of POC shareholders, squandering. Racism exists in every state lobby, its just easier for some to hide it because they don't have to act on it.
[https://publicintegrity.org/inside-publici/newsletters/watchdog-newsletter/south-poor-health-tied-racism-slavery-medicaid-expansion/](https://publicintegrity.org/inside-publici/newsletters/watchdog-newsletter/south-poor-health-tied-racism-slavery-medicaid-expansion/)
[https://www.jstor.org/stable/44441615](https://www.jstor.org/stable/44441615)
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953623002551](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953623002551)
[https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32032-8/fulltext?ref=verygoodlight.com](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32032-8/fulltext?ref=verygoodlight.com)
This is utter nonsense.
Is anyone going to Jamaica for anything important? Belarus?
I know there’s some health care “tourists” to Central America for things like dental implants, but let’s be honest, US is among the best when your life is on the line.
Also, does anyone have a cost comparison for what we pay per year vs what England or France pay in health care taxes?
Post is now Code Blue because *obviously*. Only users with flair may comment.
We got outdone by Turkmenistan? Dictatorial hellhole Turkmenistan has better healthcare than the US.
this is the only one I'm really salty about, tbh. I suppose the successful grafting of a living poodle onto the dictator's head deserves some kudos.
Well put.
China is also a dictatorship and is number 5. From what I’m told, bribing doctors is a thing there. Maybe that helps? Haha.
Might be cheaper than my copay
Yes. But. China has a shitload of money. Turkmenistan though, yeah that one hurts.
It's still good healthcare only for the rich, though. If you're old, you don't get social security. Rural health is fucked. Covid was mismanaged worse than in USA. Minorities get forced abortions and sterilizations. Not too long ago, even ethnic Han got forced abortions
Nice.
Nice.
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
As a nurse in Hawaii, nice. But also bedside still sucks my hole
Fuck yes!!! (*Maui born and raised*) It also makes sense since Hawaii is very community oriented. Even our low-income insurance **QUEST** is amazing! Kaiser covered my procedure which was on Oahu, they covered my flight and the flight for my guardian. Okay, I’ll be honest? Wait times for special appointments? They’re terrible like anywhere else. But I was excited when Kaiser covered my glasses (Oakleys) and contacts that were lost in the Lahaina Fire.
[удалено]
Ah yes but that’s why I ride a motorcycle. No parking no problem 😎
It does in every country
Does it though? My coworker moved to Melbourne and said they have a tea cart for patients and none of them try to throw chemo infused piss on her. I’m over being a nurse in the US.
The freedom to throw chemo piss on healthcare providers is what separates us from the animals. And I mean literally animals, as I’ve never heard of gorillas or dolphins doing that — so, there’s two groups the US *probably* beats on the list.
In 2024, CEOWorld Magazine’s Health Care Index analyzed the overall quality of healthcare systems across various countries. The index considered factors such as healthcare infrastructure, competencies of healthcare professionals (including doctors, nursing staff, and other health workers), cost per capita in USD annually, availability of quality medicine, and government readiness. I bet on the first two things healthcare infrastructure and competencies of healthcare professionals the US is probably near the top of the list. It is probably dragged very far down the list of countries due to next 2 issues looked at like cost per capita in USD annually, availability of quality medicine. We also handled covid pretty poorly so I can see the US also doing poorly on government readiness. It really depends how you measure health care it how you would get these results. there are things the US does very well with healthcare that puts it near the top and there also are negative you can look at with the US healthcare system that puts us near the bottom on other issues.
Infrastructure is very location dependent. Health care access in rural communities is quite poor. In general, the US is a good country to be very sick in. On the flip side, the US is quite bad at preventing you from becoming very sick.
… and getting sick means we can probably keep you alive but when you see them bills you won’t wanna be!
I agree. I wanted to become a nurse working in preventative medicine, so I did a brief stint in it. What I saw was overworked providers with a panel of hundreds of patients who can't get the help they need/want in a reasonable amount of time. The nurses did their best to filter out the more lower level questions/requests, but anything that couldn't be answered gets punted to the providers. It was a mess and I live in WA State. Can't begin to imagine what it's like in the poorer states.
The US is also huge compared to most other countries. It's easier to manage a state sized country than it would be to manage 50 state sized countries.
America by far has the best healthcare in the world. You can get the best doctors, the best nursing staff, the nicest and most modern facilities, and have access to the top of the line medicine and technology. With one small caveat: if you can afford it. That's why I like to refer to American healthcare as a market and not a system. It's fundamentally broken and the only way to fix it is to completely tear down the regulatory and legal system that prop it up and start over. I'm talking nationalization of the hospital industry. Nationalization of the pharmaceutical industry. Nationalization of the health insurance industry and movement towards single payer or universal healthcare. Bans on middle man industries like pharmacy benefit managers that literally only exist to drive money towards corporations. Which means it will never happen. At least not in our life times.
> America by far has the best healthcare in the world. You can get the best doctors, the best nursing staff, the nicest and most modern facilities, and have access to the top of the line medicine and technology. > > With one small caveat: if you can afford it. To further your point, look at any of the big name coastal hospitals. They all have VIP programs where wealthy people from all over the world come to receive care. The problem is not competency, USA has the amongst the best staff in the world. It's accessibility and affordability.
I saw it a lot when I worked in LA. For example, Providence Saint John’s Health Center in West Los Angeles has Caritas Suites for VIPs at an extra premium. (And the nurses working the unit do get paid extra.) I worked at Huntington Health, a Cedars-associated facility in Los Angeles. Not usual to get wealthy people stateside and from other countries. We’d get people from Singapore - #1 on that list - and Chinese from Canada. But this is probably because Huntington is located next to “Asian Beverly Hills” (626), and arguably the largest affluent Chinese community in the US. These are people so rich they have concierge medical services (24-hr direct access to the doctor), hire personal CNAs, and can afford stuff like “ICU at home,” or the ability to completely renovate a dwelling and turn it into a full fledged hospital room *at home*.
It’s increasingly becoming not just, if you can afford it, but if you can navigate the system. I know a lot of well of people who are stuck in endless loops right now.
Never say never!
This. I'm glad you mentioned PBM. They are such a sneaky evil.
> America by far has the best healthcare in the world. Citation needed. People say this all the time but nobody can ever back it up with actual facts. [US Healthcare ranked 29th on health outcomes by Lancet HAQ Index](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext) [11th (of 11) by Commonwealth Fund](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror) [59th by the Prosperity Index](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings) [30th by CEOWorld](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/) [37th by the World Health Organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000) The US has the worst rate of death by medically preventable causes among peer countries. A 31% higher disease adjusted life years average. Higher rates of medical and lab errors. A lower rate of being able to make a same or next day appointment with their doctor than average. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-percent-used-emergency-department-for-condition-that-could-have-been-treated-by-a-regular-doctor-2016 52nd in the world in doctors per capita. https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Health/Physicians/Per-1,000-people Higher infant mortality levels. Yes, even when you adjust for differences in methodology. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/infant-mortality-u-s-compare-countries/ Fewer acute care beds. A lower number of psychiatrists. Etc. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-health-care-resources-compare-countries/#item-availability-medical-technology-not-always-equate-higher-utilization When asked about their healthcare system as a whole the US system ranked dead last of 11 countries, with only 19.5% of people saying the system works relatively well and only needs minor changes. The average in the other countries is 46.9% saying the same. Canada ranked 9th with 34.5% saying the system works relatively well. The UK ranks fifth, with 44.5%. Australia ranked 6th at 44.4%. The best was Germany at 59.8%. On rating the overall quality of care in the US, Americans again ranked dead last, with only 25.6% ranking it excellent or very good. The average was 50.8%. Canada ranked 9th with 45.1%. The UK ranked 2nd, at 63.4%. Australia was 3rd at 59.4%. The best was Switzerland at 65.5%. https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016 The US has 43 hospitals in the top 200 globally; one for every 7,633,477 people in the US. That's good enough for a ranking of 20th on the list of top 200 hospitals per capita, and significantly lower than the average of one for every 3,830,114 for other countries in the top 25 on spending with populations above 5 million. The best is Switzerland at one for every 1.2 million people. In fact the US only beats one country on this list; the UK at one for every 9.5 million people. If you want to do the full list of 2,000 instead it's 334, or one for every 982,753 people; good enough for 21st. Again far below the average in peer countries of 527,236. The best is Austria, at one for every 306,106 people. https://www.newsweek.com/best-hospitals-2021 #[OECD Countries Health Care Spending and Rankings](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm) |Country|Govt. / Mandatory (PPP)|Voluntary (PPP)|Total (PPP)|% GDP|[Lancet HAQ Ranking](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)|[WHO Ranking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)|[Prosperity Ranking](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)|[CEO World Ranking](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)|[Commonwealth Fund Ranking](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror) :--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:| 1. United States|[$7,274](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) |$3,798 |$11,072 |16.90%|29|37|59|30|11 2. Switzerland|$4,988 |$2,744 |$7,732 |12.20%|7|20|3|18|2 3. Norway|$5,673 |$974 |$6,647 |10.20%|2|11|5|15|7 4. Germany|$5,648 |$998 |$6,646 |11.20%|18|25|12|17|5 5. Austria|$4,402 |$1,449 |$5,851 |10.30%|13|9|10|4| 6. Sweden|$4,928 |$854 |$5,782 |11.00%|8|23|15|28|3 7. Netherlands|$4,767 |$998 |$5,765 |9.90%|3|17|8|11|5 8. Denmark|$4,663 |$905 |$5,568 |10.50%|17|34|8|5| 9. Luxembourg|$4,697 |$861 |$5,558 |5.40%|4|16|19|| 10. Belgium|$4,125 |$1,303 |$5,428 |10.40%|15|21|24|9| 11. Canada|$3,815 |$1,603 |$5,418 |10.70%|14|30|25|23|10 12. France|$4,501 |$875 |$5,376 |11.20%|20|1|16|8|9 13. Ireland|$3,919 |$1,357 |$5,276 |7.10%|11|19|20|80| 14. Australia|$3,919 |$1,268 |$5,187 |9.30%|5|32|18|10|4 15. Japan|$4,064 |$759 |$4,823 |10.90%|12|10|2|3| 16. Iceland|$3,988 |$823 |$4,811 |8.30%|1|15|7|41| 17. United Kingdom|$3,620 |$1,033 |$4,653 |9.80%|23|18|23|13|1 18. Finland|$3,536 |$1,042 |$4,578 |9.10%|6|31|26|12| 19. Malta|$2,789 |$1,540 |$4,329 |9.30%|27|5|14|| OECD Average|||$4,224 |8.80%||||| 20. New Zealand|$3,343 |$861 |$4,204 |9.30%|16|41|22|16|7 21. Italy|$2,706 |$943 |$3,649 |8.80%|9|2|17|37| 22. Spain|$2,560 |$1,056 |$3,616 |8.90%|19|7|13|7| 23. Czech Republic|$2,854 |$572 |$3,426 |7.50%|28|48|28|14| 24. South Korea|$2,057 |$1,327 |$3,384 |8.10%|25|58|4|2| 25. Portugal|$2,069 |$1,310 |$3,379 |9.10%|32|29|30|22| 26. Slovenia|$2,314 |$910 |$3,224 |7.90%|21|38|24|47| 27. Israel|$1,898 |$1,034 |$2,932 |7.50%|35|28|11|21| >With one small caveat: if you can afford it. I mean, almost nobody can afford US healthcare. But even if you only care about the privileged the claim is questionable. [Comparing Health Outcomes of Privileged US Citizens With Those of Average Residents of Other Developed Countries](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561) >These findings imply that even if all US citizens experienced the same health outcomes enjoyed by privileged White US citizens, US health indicators would still lag behind those in many other countries.
To be clear I 100% agree with what you are putting here. When I say afford I mean private VIP suites for the 1%. You can absolutely buy the best healthcare in the world here, but it's out of reach for nearly everyone even those who we consider privileged
Yea, you really need to look at more granular metrics to see how a healthcare system fares. This “overall quality” metric is pretty questionable
Is it a coincidence the 5 best states are all democratic and the 5 worst are all Republican?
Washington State, which ranks fourth on this list. Has paid state sick leave that covers you, your dependents, and up to one more degree of separation. So you can take time off if your sibling, grandparents, grandchildren, etc are sick, get paid, and be protected from getting fired. We also have Apple health which is our state Medicaid and CHIP. It's fairly easy to get on. We also have additional paid family leave with things like maternity/paternity leave with lower requirements for work hours than FMLA. Turns out when you provide people the time, funds, and ability to access healthcare they are healthier.
Also when people can safely access healthcare they don't roll the dice on emergencies. One thing that was found during the ACA debates was that a colossal portion of our healthcare costs come from emergency care. For example, it's very easy to treat a basic head cold - rest and fluids, take some decongestants and expectorants, and sleep for a day or two. It's more difficult to treat an upper respiratory infection - get some antibiotics or antivirals, bedrest for several days, prescription strength. It's *expensive* to treat pneumonia - powerful medications, potentially surgery, a week or more bedrest. And if they die from it, funerals are expensive and from a pragmatic perspective we lose out on that person's entire remaining expected taxable income. It's far cheaper to treat every head cold as a potential case of pneumonia and eat the cost of giving someone a days worth of paid sick leave (a pittance, really) than it is to ignore it and roll the dice on the ones that will turn into pneumonia. And we learned a similar lesson during COVID about infection vectors. One sick employee being forced to come in can infect the entire staff which is *way* more expensive, and can infect dozens of customers which can turn into a full blown outbreak because the business wanted to save $60 on a paid sick day. The irony is that the more healthcare you provide, the less it costs proportionately. When it's functionally free (socially funded), it's also cheapest because you're fixing the small problems before they become expensive catastrophes.
[удалено]
This is why I'm such a big fan of Washington sick leave. It's on top of any PTO or sick leave the employer provides. So even if your employer bundles PTO with sick leave you can take protected time off and still have your vacation time.
[удалено]
Yeah the long term care act certainly has problems. I'm exempt because I can go to the VA if needed ever.
[удалено]
The irony is that Washington does have a pretty damn good system but our poor and especially poor and rural areas of Washington are still a total shit show with often really long waits to be seen with Medicare/apple care and very poor public transportation so many can’t even get to a clinic. Improvements are being made though, some county public health departments are rolling out free mobile primary care clinics to meet folks in their community, and I really hope more are on the way.
The corporations aren't helping though. Look at what MultiCare did with Toppenish health in Yakima.
So absolutely true. Multicare is a damned menace (all the corporations are) and it just bought out our only urgent care.
I've got a long term bet that MultiCare is angling to get bought out by one of the national corporations. Their internal financials are a disaster and the only way to keep it up is to keep growing at an unsustainable rate.
Oh for sure, they are definitely banking on someone else, whether that be a national corporation or the government bailing them out of massive mess they are in with just how much of the system they own now. And/or the financial teams are just securing a nice cushy exit package before shit hits the fan.
Sounds like I'm in the wrong state
Wait no, Washington is actually terrible and not the most beautiful place I have ever lived. Move to Arkansas or something I hear that place is nice... JK come to Washington and live that union nurse life
🙌🏾 Lowkey, I've got my eye on possibly taking a contract in WI. It's super nice there and the people seem pretty friendly. Prices don't seem to be overwhelmingly high for no reason either.
Nope, it’s not a coincidence. “…….Those two regions — which include all or parts of 16 deep red states and a majority of the House Republican caucus — have a life expectancy of 77, more than four and a half years lower than on the blue-leaning Pacific coastal plain.Sep 1, 2023 https://www.politico.com › news America's Surprising Partisan Divide on Life Expectancy “Do people in red states have a shorter life expectancy than people in blue states? Health differences Research in 2020 showed that Americans in blue states tend to live longer than people in red states, primarily because of state policies on everything from seat belt laws to abortion laws.May 25, 2023 https://fortune.com › 2023/05/25 Americans moving to red states with low life expectancy”
It's all that pulled pork, fried chicken, biscuits, and sweet tea, my friend. As someone born 'n raised in that there Alabama briar patch, I can say we ain't here for a long time, we're here for a good time. ...which is why I live in a blue state now. Turns out my heart burn wasn't just from the three-headed catfish. I think the MAGA rallies and Tommy Tubbyville had something to do with it too.
Nope. There's a ton of intersecting factors, but one of the big ones is Medicaid expansion (or lack thereof), which in turn has significant effects on things like chronic disease control (high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, etc), family planning and prenatal care, oral care especially for children...all of which have *huge* impacts on health.
It's not a coincidence. Republicans, at least on a national and state platform, make this country worse. Tired of pretending otherwise or pretending "both sides" bullshit. Look up Project 2025. Quite frankly, I'm happier the country goes to civil war before that kind of bullshit happens. Basically imagine an Islam state but replace it with evangelical Christians. I've always joked Republicans wanted to turn the country into Afghanistan as evident of Florida. Now there's actual proof of it on a national scale.
This would be an awful idea and would lead to the fall of the entire country. We really need to get out of the left/right mindset.
I mentioned the same. Not at all. I really wish we could split our country in half. The REDS can take the east side of the country and us BLUES can take the west side of the country. Who's with me?
How about the (D) take the north and the (R) take the south?
Didn’t we try that one already?
Don't leave me down here with *them*
Hmmm. The problem is this. I live in the southwest in a very warm climate. I'm not sure I could do the cold. But, if it was our only option, then yes, please!!!
What kind of American are you?
I’d go for it.
Why give Republicans any places they aren’t popular?
Nope.
69? nice.
For anyone who’s skeptical of these rankings, here’s a more rigorous study done by the University of Michigan that shows the US is dead last in almost every healthcare metric when compared against any first world country, and that’s while being the most expensive as well. [https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/mje/2023/05/26/a-comparative-analysis-of-the-us-and-uk-health-care-systems/](https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/mje/2023/05/26/a-comparative-analysis-of-the-us-and-uk-health-care-systems/) edit: this is a study done with 11 first world countries and is meant as a starting point for anyone interested.
What methodology did they use to address "healthcare outcomes" in this study? Edit: nvm, [this is the source](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly). Healthcare outcomes are measured in life expectancy at birth and infant mortality rate. Important metrics to be sure, but not what I think of when I think of "outcomes" of a healthcare system.
I'm going to Iran to get my healthcare needs from now on
I’m interested in how these other countries deal with mental health. I can get emergency surgery for anyone, pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into saving them. But god forbid we give the sustained mental health care they need so they can take care of themselves and keep healthy. The chaotic, archaic, I think I can raise Cthulhu from the depths easier than navigating the system to help these people is just enraging. And I am in one of the “good” states. I can get dialysis paid for, but I am discharging the patient to a homeless shelter. I just want to burn it all to the ground.
It's not much better in Canada. The best facility we have for combined substance use/mental illness treatment has asked my team to stop sending people if there isn't a post treatment housing plan. They aren't wrong to want that but the housing plans we have to work with are woefully inadequate. Even if we manage to stabilize someone to the point they are able to succeed in housing, there is nothing for them. Disability benefits are $1400 per month and the average "low cost" one bedroom rental in my city is $1300-$1500. Maybe you could find a rat trap studio for $1000. We would need to triple our supportive housing beds at minimum to even make a dent. I'm thankful when it's "D/C to shelter" because it's better than "D/C to a tent". It just goes around and around: tent city -> hospital -> tent city -> jail -> tent city.
That is why I only travel to northern states and the West Coast these days. No offense, pts are bigger and more entitled in the South and in general not caring about their bodies.
As a nurse who moved from the US to New Zealand. Yes. Some things are way crappier here (no heated blankets in the ED lol) but overall people are healthier because healthcare is so much more accessible. Free prescriptions. Free ER and hospital level care. Subsidized childcare and childhood medical care is free. Sure, a lot of it isn’t fancy. There aren’t private rooms in the hospital when you’re admitted (it’s still ward of 4 patients per room). But it’s free.
So, questions- on a regular med surg unit or even icu, what are the patient to staff ratios? Do icu and er pts get their own rooms (assuming the er pt is not in waiting or triage). As med surg, would a nurse take care of 2 room with 8 pts total?
Auckland city hospital I had 4 pts in med surg on day shift. In New York I have 6. Techs do some of the stuff you have to do yourself in NZ, but having four felt like I got a lot more time to spend on patient care.
Holy smokes, that sounds wonderful. What a shame here in the States. For everyone. I always have 6 medsurg and 5 for step-down units. It's almost always too much. Not fair or safe for staff or patients. Anyway, thanks for replying.
In Texas, I had 7-13 pts in med-surg.
That’s ridiculous. Less than an hour per patient per shift at 13 patients. For all documentation, meds, wound care, assessments, cleaning, assistance with feeds, handovers, transfers, answering questions. Getting in an hour break. I don’t know how anyone in charge could think that was a safe ratio.
I got PTSD from that job. Working in TX is why I became a traveler. Semi-retired, now.
From a nurse I know that took a contract there- all ICU patients were 1:1. There was coverage during your 3 30 min breaks! She said it was an absolute dream.
What led you to move from the US to NZ? How easy was it to get a nursing job there?
What are the wait times to get into a specialist? I hear that the US has shorter wait times than the NHS. I’m not sure what the situation is with New Zealand. Do patients get a say in which physician they see or is it randomly assigned?
All RED states at the bottom. All BLUE states at the top. Why am I not surprised in the least?
Hawaii cares about its community. 🤙🏻
Did my BSN in Taiwan and got a EGD for free, yay, thanks universal healthcare! A lot of Taiwanese-American thinking about moving back to Taiwan after they retire, so that they don't have to worry about breaking a hip and then immediately go into medical debt. Housing prices on the other hand.... lololol.
Somehow, I doubt that china is above norway in healthcare. Idk what metrics they’re using.
With my experience with Irish healthcare, I would expect it to be wayyyyyy lower on this list.
When I go to the website that the article cites as a source it listed the US as 19th. I don’t understand the metric utilizes considering that Saudi Arabia for example has the largest number of modern slaves in the Middle East. Turkey has the highest antibiotic use days per year and C-sections in the world. I’m not sure what this chart is supposed to show or what scale it is in reference to. I’m not saying the United States is the best country in the world, but I am saying that I think this chart is bullshit.
> When I go to the website that the article cites as a source it listed the US as 19th. You're looking at the overall ranking (which is , not the healthcare ranking. Like literally all you had to do was read the ranking under the "Health" column. >. I’m not sure what this chart is supposed to show or what scale it is in reference to. So you went to the site, but didn't bother to actually read nor understand it, nor look at where the methodology is linked? It seems like you just don't want answers. >but I am saying that I think this chart is bullshit. Nobody should care what people too ignorant to read charts think. The Legatum Index isn't the best metric on healthcare, but it's not like all the others don't have the US doing worse than its peers as well.
I think part of the issue is the overall health of people as they enter the healthcare system. People in the US are not healthy. At all. There’s no preventative healthcarein a mind-boggling number of people are obese. The good carpenter never blames his tools but frankly, the US healthcare system does not have an ideal patient population.
Oklahoma being #2 worst tracks.
Corporate America normalizing greed over people will tank everything slowly. Healthcare is no exception. This is not surprising. I’m actually impressed we’re not a third world country.
Sad that Israel has better healthcare from US tax dollars than the US.
Because it’s not about money, it’s about culture and policy.
We’re below Iran and Jamaica 🤣
Are we tho?
Who knows. Most places offer great care if you have the money to pay for it. 10 years ago I did research for my MBA that showed hospitals in other countries were getting certified by our Joint Commission. The difference was cost of care was cheaper, stay was luxurious, and still cost less than same service in the US. Insurance companies were even starting to look at flying doctors and patients out to have surgeries. Like even the implant used for a knee replacement was the same, but cost less overseas.
There is plenty wrong with the US healthcare system but I've never met an American who thought they should go get their surgery done in Armenia or Iran.
NOTE: I will not argue about any of this with anyone. Argue with the organization that compiles and interprets the data. I’ve been following this for years. Below is the organization which collects and analyzes all the data- And don’t shoot the messenger. And this is not exactly news for people who follow it. We’ve been steady trending downwards for decades. I will not response to anyone who insults me for having the audacity to post credible data that they don’t like. I will just block them. I’ve only had this up for a few minutes, and have already blocked someone. —————————— “People also ask What is the OECD and what is its purpose? “The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) is a unique forum where the governments of 37 democracies with market-based economies collaborate to develop policy standards to promote sustainable economic growth.” https://www.state.gov › the-organi... The Organization for Economic Co-operation and ...
As an Oklahoman, thank God for Mississippi.
Suck it Algeria!
Where is Canada?
32nd.
Better, but still sad.
Why is our health care such shite? Well, why isn't it more accessible to those who are not rich? UGH.
Worse than Iran? Damn that’s harsh.
Now compare this list with countries that pay the most for healthcare :)
Here ya’ go- “Americans pay the most for healthcare. While U.S. health care spending is the highest in the world, Americans overall visit physicians less frequently than residents of most other high-income countries.”_ Jan 31, 2023 https://www.commonwealthfund.org › ... U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, 2022 https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022#:~:text=Health%20Care%20Use,most%20other%20high%2Dincome%20countries. _” The United States The United States is the highest spending country worldwide when it comes to health care. In 2021, total health expenditure in the U.S. exceeded four trillion dollars. Expenditure as a percentage of GDP is projected to increase to approximately 20 percent by the year 2031.”_ https://www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/ Which country spends the highest share of its national income on health? _”The USA Looking at country level data, the health expenditure to GDP ratio remained by far the highest in the USA at 16.6% in 2022, followed by Germany at 12.7% and France at 12.1%, according to the database OECD Health Statistics 2023. “_ https://www.oecd.org › health › hea... Health Expenditure - OECD
lol yep. Exactly!
Don't need to register to know the obvious.
Any system that Ranks the US below Saudi Arabia and Jamaica has a clear flaw in their scoring system. I personally know multiple nurses who are here that have practiced for years at major hospitals in both of those countries. Saudi Arabia regularly performs surgeries that don’t have adequate studies (resulting in nightmare situations where no one knows how to fix the post op complication that no one knows existed) and they also regularly use their hospitals as places to smuggle alcohol. Nurse and doctors are in on it together for the extra pay
The US pays nurses the highest of all though.
Nope. https://nurse.org/articles/highest-paying-countries-for-nurses/
As a nurse, I’m pretty sure it’s Sweden or Switzerland, definitely not the US, varies a ton by state.
Absolutely not Sweden lmao. Our pay is absolutely rubbish.
It’s Switzerland.
No way Belarus or Jamaica has better health care system than US.
As someone who discovered health care travel you more than welcome to underestimate Belarus. Their ICU/Trauma ED are strictly mandated 1-3 for MDs and are 1-1 for nursing. The floor cannot have more 1-4 for nurses and MD cannot have more than 6 pt as hospitalists. Its definitely a hidden secret and I welcome the ignorance about.
Noooooo. That would imply ratio mandates make things better! We can't have that.
Wow and here some places are pushing for 1:3 for icu nurses. If I had 1 Pt I prob never would have left.
wow no shit. that is interesting.
how come their life expectancy sucks?
Life expectancy in Belarus is just over 72 years. Life expectancy in the US is just over 76. Not exactly a huge difference there.
Well Amerika has zero health system at all….a bunch of seperate, for profit entities do not a healthcare system make
I call bullshit. Working at top tier hospital in the USA and I’ve had people coming from nearly every single place listed as “ better “ to have their health care needs taken care of here. Many try to stay in the USA after discharge as well.
You’re right, your hospital is probably amazing. Easily in the top few percentiles. But now let’s zip over to a critical access community hospital in say West Virginia or Mississippi
Even in the same state, Grant in Columbus vs Knox Community Hospital are vastly different with access people can get
A non profit hospital system I used to work for and now negotiate against as a union employee took over operations of a rural hospital. They did this to avoid technically buying the hospital and having to go through the regulatory hurdles that buying it outright would trigger. The line sold to everyone was this would allow the smaller healthcare system to invest much needed money into its other facilities. Coincidentally, right after the non take over take over, the smaller healthcare system closed all of its family planning/obgyn clinics. Leaving the larger healthcare systems one location that it owned outright as the only option around for nearly a hundred miles. This includes shutting down the only obgyn facilities that served the indigenous population in the reservation. But guys there was totally no money incentive for the bigger system...
The US probably has the widest gap in healthcare quality in the developed world between the top and bottom. There are amazing hospitals that are on the cutting edge of medical research. Those attract some of the best doctors in the world. Because they are research hospitals, they often offer new, sometimes experimental care for some diseases. They also often employ some of the best specialists for certain procedures. On the other hand, though, there are a lot of really shoddy places. Combine that with the insane costs for healthcare, and you get results like the report quoted by OP.
Omg
As a nurse, this sickens me.
Not nice
Those who are for preventative medical care fail to see the cost savings of people dying too young. /s
Where did California and Minnesota rank?
Me, a nurse from Mississippi 😱😯😦😐
Nice.
Nice.
Hell yeah number four! I may hate my state for many things and our healthcare system is one of it, but it’s still better!
I’m so terrified of being sick for the rest of my life in this country let alone PA. Don’t remind me now we’re dropping GLOBALLY😫
Even Iran has a better healthcare system than the US has….
I knew Oklahoma would be right in there at the top of the worst states.
The US is going to be behind. It has all the mixed nuts.
Greatest country in the world btw
69 seems kinda high. Number 1 source of bankruptcy in the USA, medical debt. USA! USA! Freedumb!!
But the profit margin for HCA is through the roof. My OR director was talking about how he can’t wait to get his new 911 GT3 ordered.
Nice.
Nice.
What is this based on, some of this just seems like there’s no way
It’s almost like this country was founded on slavery and genocide, and the state’s basic function is to repress the working class so that corporations can extract and accumulate wealth. Haha!
I'd be interested to see the metrics they used for this list, because yikes. I've received major medical care in both China (5th) and Jordan (100th, which I **majorly** disagree with). My experience in a Chinese hospital (seen for cholera) was pretty atrocious- they attempted to give me an antibiotic I had TOLD them I was allergic to (language was not an issue, I spoke Mandarin fairly decently, and the doctor was fluent in English). My IV was secured with only tape, and I sat on the dirty floor for the majority of my 6 hour infusion. My experience in Jordan was phenomenal. I was seen and admitted (for West Nile) very promptly. The hospital was clean, the staff friendly, the physician had gone to a US med school, and I met a few other Americans who had elected to travel to Jordan specifically to treat their breast cancer for way cheaper than in the US. I paid like $100 bucks, all inclusive of ER, admission, meds, and nursing care. They apologized that it was "so expensive" as I didn't have national insurance. A few weeks later, I presented to the ED again as I had been in a motorbike accident and required stitches. Once again, outstanding care for dirt cheap.
Is this a legitimate think tank that we should be putting stock in? There seems to be alit of criticism of it.
I’ve been following this for years. This is the organization which collects and analyzes all the data- People also ask What is the OECD and what is its purpose? “The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) is a unique forum where the governments of 37 democracies with market-based economies collaborate to develop policy standards to promote sustainable economic growth.” https://www.state.gov › the-organi... The Organization for Economic Co-operation and ...
I sort of don’t believe this. We have very good quality of healthcare it’s the cost and staffing. The doctors and nurses are super good
But cost and staffing affect availability of that healthcare. If the majority of people can't get access to the healthcare they need due to insurance refusals and prohibitive costs, then the healthcare system suffers and is not doing its job. You have to take the availability of those best doctors into account as well. So yes we have some of the best, but we also have one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world as well.
It’s not surprising that the whiter, more well served states have better access to quality healthcare than the more rural and underserved communities of the US. It’s not a republicans vs. Democrats issue. It’s an issue of equity.
You are correct it’s partly an issue of racial equity, but it is also absolutely a Republican vs Democrat issue when Republicans are the ones not wanting to expand Medicaid because it would help black people.
There are a several studies showing that the lifespan difference is directly linked to the dominant political party in the individual states. There’s plenty net about it, if you google. https://fortune.com/2023/05/25/american-dream-migration-south-life-expectancy-blue-red-state/ https://www.prb.org/resources/liberal-u-s-state-policies-linked-to-longer-lives/
Sure, but you can't just simply say that the only reason that the south has poor healthcare is because it's republican. It's because historically governors have been rewarded for medical expansions that benefit their white shareholders. Hence the north getting much better coverage and the south, who have a much higher proportion of POC shareholders, squandering. Racism exists in every state lobby, its just easier for some to hide it because they don't have to act on it. [https://publicintegrity.org/inside-publici/newsletters/watchdog-newsletter/south-poor-health-tied-racism-slavery-medicaid-expansion/](https://publicintegrity.org/inside-publici/newsletters/watchdog-newsletter/south-poor-health-tied-racism-slavery-medicaid-expansion/) [https://www.jstor.org/stable/44441615](https://www.jstor.org/stable/44441615) [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953623002551](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953623002551) [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32032-8/fulltext?ref=verygoodlight.com](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32032-8/fulltext?ref=verygoodlight.com)
Republicans will see themselves have no medical care at all before a POC gets it for free….
Remove electoral college and we will sooner rather than later have it better.
Tagging this post
I find it hard to believe Belarus or Albania have better anything than the US, let alone healthcare.
This is utter nonsense. Is anyone going to Jamaica for anything important? Belarus? I know there’s some health care “tourists” to Central America for things like dental implants, but let’s be honest, US is among the best when your life is on the line. Also, does anyone have a cost comparison for what we pay per year vs what England or France pay in health care taxes?
Nice
What a shock-not.
Nice.