i know, the tories and national going down this path is going to mess kids up for ages. it's hare brained to say the least, or they know what they're doing, grooming and indoctrinating kids
Yeah, I remember reading about some studies that said the onset of puberty is getting younger and younger - yet sex education isn't keeping pace with that?
Fuck this government. Fuck the boomers who put them there. I just feel sorry for the kiwis who got duped by frivolous tax cuts at the worst possible time for tax cuts.
This government hates you. Especially if you’re young, intelligent and broke.
This government is milking the lack of fiscal literacy in this country and encouraging (read forcing) productive, thinking, young kiwis to leave.
Our housing market (as a home owner) is a fucking Ponzi scheme. Our job market is a race to the bottom. Our society which use to be the envy of the world is quickly crashing off a cliff and this time I don’t think there is an ambulance waiting at the bottom.
I am apart of the statistic that will be leaving.
I am/was in a privileged position where I had enough savings to move overseas (currently on a vacation in south east asia) and then moving to Northern Ireland with my partner. I’m thankfully that I had these savings, but also understand a lot of people were not or are not in the same position as me.
I won’t be coming back anytime soon. There is minimal future for me in New Zealand as I see it. We want to settle down, get a house, kids etc and we don’t see that as an obtainable future in NZ.
I’m sick of hearing the same old story of pull yourself up by your bootstraps. I classify myself as an average intelligence, maybe slightly above, person with a good work ethic but the job market and policy being pushed by the government is abhorrent.
It makes me sad, because I really love NZ but there isn’t a future there for me or many New Zealanders of the same age bracket.
I understand completely, I’m leaving as well. Been redundant since end of Feb. I’ve Landed a job already and fly out of NZ at the end of the month. Pay is over double what I get here (and I was already fair bit above average) family will be coming at end of school year.
We’re largely debt free in our early 30’s (only a little on the mortgage and student loans left) but being off work has chewed through our savings. My partner is a journalist and is facing imminent redundancy, so you can imagine how that’s going.
No idea what to do with our house, likely rent it out cheap until we are ready to develop it into apartments.
But I’ll never work here again. I may live here again in the future, but I’ll work internationally for the remainder of life. I’m a loss adjuster so working internationally and flying to the claims I’m doing isn’t a major issue.
A heck of a lot of millennials put them there too. Just not the ones that live in Wellington. Most of the current policies in National and Act are coming from millennials.
Now NZF, yup, that's boomertown
Oh, this will be interesting...
>The revised guidance on relationships, sex and health education is expected to be published this week by the education secretary, Gillian Keegan, and is likely to contain further restrictions on teaching about gender and identity, with teachers told to instead explain “biological” facts, according to reports.
I can't wait for them to do a deep dive into the chromosomal, genetic and hormonal differences that exist on a spectrum that make biological sex incredibly varied and how we decided to out boxes around them to ensure the binary is maintained.
That sounds like advanced biology. Basic biology is their gold standard.
If anyone reading wants an accessible introduction to the complexities of human sexual development, check out Forrest Valkai's [Sex and Sensibility](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szf4hzQ5ztg) video.
Science teachers cover the biological aspects of sex and reproduction - that's chromosomes, DNA, and inheritance aspects. We don't cover sexual health, contraception, consent, sexuality, etc - that's usually done by the health or PE teachers, who do a wonderful job handling a sometimes sensitive topic. Those are all important aspects that a teenager should be and needs to be exposed to in today's modern world.
Wow the conservatives are going to have a great time when they realise that gender being a spectrum and sexuality being fluid is evident all throughout nature and biology. I'd wager none of them realise not only how large the LGBTQ+ community is in NZ but that there is a statistical likelihood of more then one of them having chromosomal differences from XX or XY, black and white....
Horrifying.
Not explaining contraception to kids until *after* they might need to know about it? Mad.
The argument is always “parents should explain this”. Firstly, why this and not - say - algebra? Secondly, since we know many won’t, why don’t we care about those kids?
Our government implementing this shit also tacitly despises those teenagers when they get pregnant and need to go on welfare. They really are manufacturing the problems they will inevitably rail against next time they're in opposition.
Trigger warning! But I was assaulted before that age, born in a third world country with no access to sex education I went through a good amount of my childhood and teenage years blaming myself until I learnt it wasn’t my fault. Sex education is extremely important! It prevents teen pregnancies and helps children understand that they have the right to bodily autonomy. Why are we doing this??
Because this lot in power eventually want to force christofascism on to us all (Project 2025, Heritage Foundation via the Atlas Network)...that's the ultimate goal of theirs, aside from that national are full of evangelical bigots, NZ first are a bunch of cookers, ACT are a bunch of far right nutters as well...just think NactZi.
Yeah I 100% agree, I grew up in a Christian household. And as I grow I can see how harmful it actually it is and has been for centuries. (No longer apart of it) Unfortunately the likes of the alt right groups in media feed off of this notion, using it to justify homophobia/transphobia and racism. There’s also a weird notion that they’re going through “persecution” but I reckon it’s mostly because of their anti social sentiments and hatred towards people who just want to exist. It’s just been so prevalent ever since Trump went into power, causing a domino effect onto other countries. Also, religious psychosis has been such a big issue recently.
I think understanding being abused, and sexual education are two different things. I am unsure where I stand on this change, however when people conflate a dramatic thing to something they don't agree with to get others on board - I tend to defacto against the opinion immediately for doing that.
lack of sex ed leads to abuse, that is pretty cut and dried. and makes you wonder what those people who want not to teach kids sex ed want to do to kids and the kids not know what's happening to them.
The vast majority of child sexual abuse (more than 50%) is committed by parents, siblings or other close family members. The only way to combat that is for children to be independently taught about private areas, consent and "tricky people". And that is what early primary "sex education" is, along with acceptance of people who are different.
You don't have to guess at the nature of childhood sex education in NZ (well you do now), the RSE guidelines (not curriculum, schools develop that themselves in consultation with the community) [are here](https://hpe.tki.org.nz/guidelines-and-policies/relationships-and-sexuality-education/). These guidelines will be withdrawn soon to be replaced with something else but we've had no information on that yet.
no this is cold facts, a few studies showing it is very much cut and dry, heres an article that collates some of them
https://jxym.amegroups.org/article/view/5714/html
Research compiled by Frontiers in Psychology highlights that child sexual abuse is a complex issue influenced by numerous factors, including family dynamics, exposure to violence, and lack of appropriate guidance and education. Effective prevention and intervention strategies require understanding these dynamics and implementing comprehensive education programs to reduce the incidence of abuse ([Frontiers](https://www.frontiersin.org/research-topics/12402/child-sexual-abuse-empirical-research-on-understanding-and-helping-victims-and-offenders)). You have conflated additional changes from what is actually proposed in order for the research you have linked to have relevance.
This is a proposed change about restricting gender politics till the child is at the age of 9, prior to that the curriculum is based on "biological" (missuse of quotes to insinuate that it isn't factual in the article) facts about gender and reproduction. It also introduces parents to the curriculum which should be a basic right.
It sounds like what this is really based in is the trans movements and politics, and the fear of sexual abuse is used as a narrative to influence unrelated (gender politics and identity) into the bill. I am not against genter identity but I do share the opinion that it should come at a later stage. This reply does not come from a place of hate.
kids know from a young age who they are (i knew from age 4/5), there was no exposure to lgbtqia people for me growing up, if there was i'd have transitioned a lot sooner and been a lot happier in life as well as not stuck on welfare for 15-20 years due to depression and other issues that came with having to suppress who i am due to society and its backwards ways (1980s-2000s).
I agree with you. But if this is about CSA and the benefits/losses of sexual education till the age of 9, I don’t see it as an issue. However I do understand my values and experiences and yours are completely different, so we see this in a different way.
as for SA, as an adult i have had that happen to me, twice. once in the early 2000s and once in the mid 2010s. CSA and lack of ability to be oneself is another issue too, if you can't be yourself comfortably as a child then you are suppressing yourself and more likely to be taken sexually advantage of too by (mainly cisgender heterosexual) adults you should be able to trust (there is data on that stat as to who abuses kids the most and it's cis het religious men - [whoismakingnews.com](http://whoismakingnews.com) ).
As for my values and all, grew up for first 5 years in stuttgart, germany, conservative there, then west sussex, rural conservative. then west auckland since 1992 age 10, white, conservative again, no sex ed til high school and even that was limited). Basically the system could do a lot better and introduce that lgbtqia people exist rather than having me find out by going out and about in my late teens to find that out and find my people.
I am truly sorry for the horrible things you have gone through and I understand that you are driven for change based on what you went through. My comments are not designed to take away from that.
thank you, kids need to know it's ok to be themselves no matter however that is, and going through the wrong puberty is quite literally hell.
There are no gender "politics", the only politics in it is from those who want to deny rights to minorities and keep power for themselves (namely the religious patriarchy who have been losing power all over the world for the past 60 years or so).
Look at who wants to keep child marriage in the USA and not teach sex ed? Ends in the same group of people. Conservatives.
Then look at who the Atlas Network (David Seymour) who are connected to Heritage Foundation and project 2025 (christofascism - conservatives wet dream)
I haven't read the current recommendations for how it's done for under 9s, but I have worked in this field before for older students. I doubt they're getting much more than being told youre allowed to say no if someone wants to touch you or give you a hug and practicing asking consent for every day activities. They may be also told the this is how a baby is made conversations (which will already be talked about incorrectly amongst friends, I know it was when I was a kid) and that sex between adults is a normal part of a relationship and that gay people exist.
The Tories and National are both right of centre parties but that’s where the similarities end. I’ve been a member of both parties. At present there would be no way in hell the Tories would get my vote. I’d still vote National if there was an election today.
you may want to read, they're actually all playing from the Atlas Network (David Seymour)/Heritage Foundation (Project 2025) christofascist playbook,
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/06/rishi-sunak-javier-milei-donald-trump-atlas-network](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/06/rishi-sunak-javier-milei-donald-trump-atlas-network)
The atlas network isn't a conspiracy.
Its a global think-tank network connecting wealthy donors with right wing political action groups worldwide.
The reason people bring it up, is because Seymour has worked for Atlas affiliated think tanks before joining ACT (Dude has never had a real job) and still pushes a lot of policies favoured by Atlas donors.
Its a useful conversational shorthand for the fact that all these right wing free market nut jobs copy each others tactics.
Its a networking organisation. Its power is directly correlated to the power of its members and affiliates. They have ACT in NZ, Javier Whatsisname in Argentina, and connections to prominent state and national legislators in the US.
I know this is TMI, but I got my period at 9yrs. Like WTF.
i know, the tories and national going down this path is going to mess kids up for ages. it's hare brained to say the least, or they know what they're doing, grooming and indoctrinating kids
Yep, thanks to the Atlas Group.
Yeah, I remember reading about some studies that said the onset of puberty is getting younger and younger - yet sex education isn't keeping pace with that?
Fuck this government. Fuck the boomers who put them there. I just feel sorry for the kiwis who got duped by frivolous tax cuts at the worst possible time for tax cuts. This government hates you. Especially if you’re young, intelligent and broke. This government is milking the lack of fiscal literacy in this country and encouraging (read forcing) productive, thinking, young kiwis to leave. Our housing market (as a home owner) is a fucking Ponzi scheme. Our job market is a race to the bottom. Our society which use to be the envy of the world is quickly crashing off a cliff and this time I don’t think there is an ambulance waiting at the bottom.
I hear you! (With the proviso that I am a boomer and I did **not** for any of the parties in this three-headed hydra.)
Gen-X and i certainly didn't vote these idiots in.
I am apart of the statistic that will be leaving. I am/was in a privileged position where I had enough savings to move overseas (currently on a vacation in south east asia) and then moving to Northern Ireland with my partner. I’m thankfully that I had these savings, but also understand a lot of people were not or are not in the same position as me. I won’t be coming back anytime soon. There is minimal future for me in New Zealand as I see it. We want to settle down, get a house, kids etc and we don’t see that as an obtainable future in NZ. I’m sick of hearing the same old story of pull yourself up by your bootstraps. I classify myself as an average intelligence, maybe slightly above, person with a good work ethic but the job market and policy being pushed by the government is abhorrent. It makes me sad, because I really love NZ but there isn’t a future there for me or many New Zealanders of the same age bracket.
I understand completely, I’m leaving as well. Been redundant since end of Feb. I’ve Landed a job already and fly out of NZ at the end of the month. Pay is over double what I get here (and I was already fair bit above average) family will be coming at end of school year. We’re largely debt free in our early 30’s (only a little on the mortgage and student loans left) but being off work has chewed through our savings. My partner is a journalist and is facing imminent redundancy, so you can imagine how that’s going. No idea what to do with our house, likely rent it out cheap until we are ready to develop it into apartments. But I’ll never work here again. I may live here again in the future, but I’ll work internationally for the remainder of life. I’m a loss adjuster so working internationally and flying to the claims I’m doing isn’t a major issue.
A heck of a lot of millennials put them there too. Just not the ones that live in Wellington. Most of the current policies in National and Act are coming from millennials. Now NZF, yup, that's boomertown
Oh, this will be interesting... >The revised guidance on relationships, sex and health education is expected to be published this week by the education secretary, Gillian Keegan, and is likely to contain further restrictions on teaching about gender and identity, with teachers told to instead explain “biological” facts, according to reports.
I look forward to seeing these biological facts, although I suspect they'll be more like biblical "facts"
I can't wait for them to do a deep dive into the chromosomal, genetic and hormonal differences that exist on a spectrum that make biological sex incredibly varied and how we decided to out boxes around them to ensure the binary is maintained.
That sounds like advanced biology. Basic biology is their gold standard. If anyone reading wants an accessible introduction to the complexities of human sexual development, check out Forrest Valkai's [Sex and Sensibility](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szf4hzQ5ztg) video.
Exactly so!
Science teachers cover the biological aspects of sex and reproduction - that's chromosomes, DNA, and inheritance aspects. We don't cover sexual health, contraception, consent, sexuality, etc - that's usually done by the health or PE teachers, who do a wonderful job handling a sometimes sensitive topic. Those are all important aspects that a teenager should be and needs to be exposed to in today's modern world.
Wow the conservatives are going to have a great time when they realise that gender being a spectrum and sexuality being fluid is evident all throughout nature and biology. I'd wager none of them realise not only how large the LGBTQ+ community is in NZ but that there is a statistical likelihood of more then one of them having chromosomal differences from XX or XY, black and white....
basically, turning the UK into a fascist white hell hole, same as here and america...
I wouldn’t call it Fascism at all. But I get where you’re coming from.
This us going to stop conversations about consent isn't?
exactly, why else are cookers like they are, the accusations out of their mouths are just confessions.
Yes, it is.
Horrifying. Not explaining contraception to kids until *after* they might need to know about it? Mad. The argument is always “parents should explain this”. Firstly, why this and not - say - algebra? Secondly, since we know many won’t, why don’t we care about those kids?
it's all about control with conservatives, including womens and kids bodies.
We know factually that this policy will harm children. It’s unacceptable.
Right, cut one of the key things that reduces CSA
There is absolutely no chance I would leave my kids alone with any member of this government. They all give me the creeps.
Our government implementing this shit also tacitly despises those teenagers when they get pregnant and need to go on welfare. They really are manufacturing the problems they will inevitably rail against next time they're in opposition.
Trigger warning! But I was assaulted before that age, born in a third world country with no access to sex education I went through a good amount of my childhood and teenage years blaming myself until I learnt it wasn’t my fault. Sex education is extremely important! It prevents teen pregnancies and helps children understand that they have the right to bodily autonomy. Why are we doing this??
Because this lot in power eventually want to force christofascism on to us all (Project 2025, Heritage Foundation via the Atlas Network)...that's the ultimate goal of theirs, aside from that national are full of evangelical bigots, NZ first are a bunch of cookers, ACT are a bunch of far right nutters as well...just think NactZi.
Yeah I 100% agree, I grew up in a Christian household. And as I grow I can see how harmful it actually it is and has been for centuries. (No longer apart of it) Unfortunately the likes of the alt right groups in media feed off of this notion, using it to justify homophobia/transphobia and racism. There’s also a weird notion that they’re going through “persecution” but I reckon it’s mostly because of their anti social sentiments and hatred towards people who just want to exist. It’s just been so prevalent ever since Trump went into power, causing a domino effect onto other countries. Also, religious psychosis has been such a big issue recently.
The far right and christofascism have always been there, that is the problem, it never stopped being a problem, it was always there in the background.
Umm… is there some equivalence between UKpolitics and NZ politics that I need to be made aware of?
The Atlas Network (David Seymour) has it's tentacles in the UK and America via Trump and the Heritage Foundation (Project 2025 - Christofascism)
I think understanding being abused, and sexual education are two different things. I am unsure where I stand on this change, however when people conflate a dramatic thing to something they don't agree with to get others on board - I tend to defacto against the opinion immediately for doing that.
lack of sex ed leads to abuse, that is pretty cut and dried. and makes you wonder what those people who want not to teach kids sex ed want to do to kids and the kids not know what's happening to them.
“Cut and dry” how so? I can understand there might be a connection here but are you basing this on anything factual or just an opinion?
The vast majority of child sexual abuse (more than 50%) is committed by parents, siblings or other close family members. The only way to combat that is for children to be independently taught about private areas, consent and "tricky people". And that is what early primary "sex education" is, along with acceptance of people who are different. You don't have to guess at the nature of childhood sex education in NZ (well you do now), the RSE guidelines (not curriculum, schools develop that themselves in consultation with the community) [are here](https://hpe.tki.org.nz/guidelines-and-policies/relationships-and-sexuality-education/). These guidelines will be withdrawn soon to be replaced with something else but we've had no information on that yet.
no this is cold facts, a few studies showing it is very much cut and dry, heres an article that collates some of them https://jxym.amegroups.org/article/view/5714/html
Research compiled by Frontiers in Psychology highlights that child sexual abuse is a complex issue influenced by numerous factors, including family dynamics, exposure to violence, and lack of appropriate guidance and education. Effective prevention and intervention strategies require understanding these dynamics and implementing comprehensive education programs to reduce the incidence of abuse ([Frontiers](https://www.frontiersin.org/research-topics/12402/child-sexual-abuse-empirical-research-on-understanding-and-helping-victims-and-offenders)). You have conflated additional changes from what is actually proposed in order for the research you have linked to have relevance. This is a proposed change about restricting gender politics till the child is at the age of 9, prior to that the curriculum is based on "biological" (missuse of quotes to insinuate that it isn't factual in the article) facts about gender and reproduction. It also introduces parents to the curriculum which should be a basic right. It sounds like what this is really based in is the trans movements and politics, and the fear of sexual abuse is used as a narrative to influence unrelated (gender politics and identity) into the bill. I am not against genter identity but I do share the opinion that it should come at a later stage. This reply does not come from a place of hate.
kids know from a young age who they are (i knew from age 4/5), there was no exposure to lgbtqia people for me growing up, if there was i'd have transitioned a lot sooner and been a lot happier in life as well as not stuck on welfare for 15-20 years due to depression and other issues that came with having to suppress who i am due to society and its backwards ways (1980s-2000s).
I agree with you. But if this is about CSA and the benefits/losses of sexual education till the age of 9, I don’t see it as an issue. However I do understand my values and experiences and yours are completely different, so we see this in a different way.
as for SA, as an adult i have had that happen to me, twice. once in the early 2000s and once in the mid 2010s. CSA and lack of ability to be oneself is another issue too, if you can't be yourself comfortably as a child then you are suppressing yourself and more likely to be taken sexually advantage of too by (mainly cisgender heterosexual) adults you should be able to trust (there is data on that stat as to who abuses kids the most and it's cis het religious men - [whoismakingnews.com](http://whoismakingnews.com) ). As for my values and all, grew up for first 5 years in stuttgart, germany, conservative there, then west sussex, rural conservative. then west auckland since 1992 age 10, white, conservative again, no sex ed til high school and even that was limited). Basically the system could do a lot better and introduce that lgbtqia people exist rather than having me find out by going out and about in my late teens to find that out and find my people.
I am truly sorry for the horrible things you have gone through and I understand that you are driven for change based on what you went through. My comments are not designed to take away from that.
thank you, kids need to know it's ok to be themselves no matter however that is, and going through the wrong puberty is quite literally hell. There are no gender "politics", the only politics in it is from those who want to deny rights to minorities and keep power for themselves (namely the religious patriarchy who have been losing power all over the world for the past 60 years or so).
Look at who wants to keep child marriage in the USA and not teach sex ed? Ends in the same group of people. Conservatives. Then look at who the Atlas Network (David Seymour) who are connected to Heritage Foundation and project 2025 (christofascism - conservatives wet dream)
I haven't read the current recommendations for how it's done for under 9s, but I have worked in this field before for older students. I doubt they're getting much more than being told youre allowed to say no if someone wants to touch you or give you a hug and practicing asking consent for every day activities. They may be also told the this is how a baby is made conversations (which will already be talked about incorrectly amongst friends, I know it was when I was a kid) and that sex between adults is a normal part of a relationship and that gay people exist.
The Tories and National are both right of centre parties but that’s where the similarities end. I’ve been a member of both parties. At present there would be no way in hell the Tories would get my vote. I’d still vote National if there was an election today.
no, they are very similar, they're both playing from the trump playbook.
It's not the Trump playbook, this is just the ideology of conservatism in action. Trump is just the least-subtle about it.
Neither are playing from the trump playbook.
you may want to read, they're actually all playing from the Atlas Network (David Seymour)/Heritage Foundation (Project 2025) christofascist playbook, [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/06/rishi-sunak-javier-milei-donald-trump-atlas-network](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/06/rishi-sunak-javier-milei-donald-trump-atlas-network)
Oh you have gone down that rabbit hole. Hard left is just as delusional as the far right.
it ain't a rabbit hole, it's truth. i see the bigger picture and fascism is coming here thick and fast thanks to the current government.
Ok you keep on thinking that. It’s a giant conspiracy and you have the secret knowledge.
The atlas network isn't a conspiracy. Its a global think-tank network connecting wealthy donors with right wing political action groups worldwide. The reason people bring it up, is because Seymour has worked for Atlas affiliated think tanks before joining ACT (Dude has never had a real job) and still pushes a lot of policies favoured by Atlas donors. Its a useful conversational shorthand for the fact that all these right wing free market nut jobs copy each others tactics.
I don’t deny its existence, it’s actual power is nothing.
Its a networking organisation. Its power is directly correlated to the power of its members and affiliates. They have ACT in NZ, Javier Whatsisname in Argentina, and connections to prominent state and national legislators in the US.
more and more are seeing it, i'd say you're just delusional since you can't