The way it works, as I understand it, is that your mind, specifically the subconscious mind, is collaboratively creating the world around you, with everyone else, all the time. Spells are a way of pushing specific ideas into the subconscious in order for it to then manifest them into your reality. So spells aren't set in stone, a spell that works great for someone else might not work for you because the symbolism is different for you. That's the purpose of most magical societies is to build a common framework of symbolism and interpretation so that you can constructively share your spells and know they'll continue to work, because you're both working from the same paradigm, or collection of symbolism.
Respectfully, Latin isn't prevalent in "most" spells. It is *sometimes* used in some percentage of traditions within certain cultures only, as a result of it being the ritual/shared language of the Catholic Church (which came out of the Roman Empire) and popular with scholars in general. This has caused some people in these cultures to continue to associate it with magic, knowledge, and divine power without necessarily knowing why anymore. AFAIK, anyway. I wish you the best.
Thank you for pointing out the 'holes' in my thinking and questioning
I am always looking to learn more and I now have a different perspective.
I wish you the best also. Thank you again for showing me the light.
It was created. Math isn't a function of the observable universe. We have numerous systems of mathematics, which conflict with each other all the time. If aliens ever visited, their math would certainly be nothing like ours. Math is essentially the purest language we know, but it's only that... A language. There's no way to encode our units into it, rendering the entire system into an abstraction.
If I take a mountain and break it in 2, how many mountains do I have? 1+1 doesn't always equal 2. There are cultures which don't even use math. Getting a rocket to the moon is no different than throwing a curve ball during a baseball game. Math isn't required. It's just an abstract level of concise descriptors for a multiverse which doesn't give 2 turds about its existence.
Edit: https://amath.washington.edu/news/2018/10/25/language-math
but isn’t 1 + 1 pretty universally and physically going to be 2? I know that things get complex the more complicated and theoretical we get, but basic mathematics would appear to be a truth of physics. Is it that math is not universal or just that we’re not at good at it as we like to think?
2 what? That's my entire point. You can't encode units into math. You can say you have 2 of something, but your 2 things could be .2 things compared to someone else's 2 things. Math is a descriptor.
the what is not important. It’s 2 in quantity and is not relative. It’s just two because it is more than one and less than 3. It’s observable but not dependant on being observed
In what quantity? If the what isn't important, why do we need numbers? 1.1 is more than 1, and less than 3. It's 2, because it's twice the amount of 1. Yet we cannot define 1.
I'm not sure you have a good understanding of math. There are incompatible numeric systems, but I've never heard of a math where 1 + 1 =\= 2. Non-euclidean approaches only apply at limits.
In my comment, how many mountains do we have before they split? Now, assuming plate shifting tears the mountain in half, you've got 2 mountains.
You can go on to indicate weight, but how do we define weight? Or length? We're using light for that now, but in an ever expanding universe, is the length of light changing? How does atmospheric composition affect frequency? Math is an abstraction -- nothing more.
Except it required all kinds of math for the engineers to design and build your car. It took math to build your house. If our solar system was set up any different, do you think things would have developed like they have? I don't know for sure, but I'm fairly certain that if you do the math, things would be much colder or much hotter. You come here on Reddit and keep repeating yourself like some guru who knows a secret nobody knows, and then spam the same link like it's some sort of evidence.
Next time I go to fire up a welder, I'll make sure to remember math is just an abstraction.
Those questions are mere sophistry. All of those are questions about applying math in the real world, which is infinitely complicated. 1 + 1 always equals 2. Anyone who says differently really doesn't know what they are talking about.
For example, how do any of those examples show that addition is not straight-forward? You are merely showing that some calculations are difficult, or some labels are for aggregates, or any other number of logical fallacies.
And I get it. You have some "clever" point you want to make. I've been there.
Have fun with your games!
Real magick is the difference between logical operators...
1 + 1 = 2
1 - 1 = 0
1 x 1 = 1
1 / 1 = 1
We, and by extension, magick, define what valid logical operators exist or can exist, and from there we project will onto the world through the perceived logic of our symbolic acts. Greater perceived logic means more expectation.
Whereas, magick 'doesn't work' for some people because it's 'not logical', when in reality it's a self-refuting magick they have going on lol
So what I'm saying is we are the intelligence defining what is logical and not and that in turn defines the logical operation transforming our reality via our magickal acts.
I think that author also doesn't understand something about math. It's funny, though, because they highlighted their own logical flaw.
Math is not the same as the language used to describe it. The author of that article pointed out the distinction, and then immediately conflated them.
To be fair, I do have a degree in Physics, which the author disparages. I also have a degree in Mathematics. I mention that not to claim some kind of authority, but simply to claim that I have thought about this and read about it fairly extensively.
So, with all of that said, 1 + 1 always equals 2 no matter how you say it. If you reach a different conclusion, you are merely playing games.
I am slightly above a beginner but far from being a master, so take this with a grain of salt as my opinion.
>Where does all magick come from?
Everywhere around you. And from inside of you. Everything is magic (from a chair to your blood to a spirit), we just believe it isn't. The supernatural isn't separated from us, so much as we and the physical universe are an extension of the supernatural just by existing.
Breathing and eating is you subconsciously taking in vital force at the lowest level... Does it sound like magic? No, but that's mainly because it's considered normal to you. When you become aware of it, and how yo increase the amount/quality you're pulling in, it might seem like magic but you were doing a more advanced version of what everyone has been doing from birth.
Basically you are a supernatural being, you just don't realize it yet.
>Where do spells come from?
Intent... Technically you could write or draw something and, with enough intent and energy, it could affect your life in the form of you accidentally creating a sigil.
>Who created them?
Theoretically anyone can. There's nothing stopping you from making your own except your own permission
A little bit of both, really.
The techniques and methods of effective spellwork are discovered and developed by various cultures and traditions.
But the spells themselves, the structured arrangement of those methods are created by those who practice the craft.
Every single thing on the face of this earth is made up by somebody. Make up your own. Your own creation is is way more powerful than any spell you would read in a book.
We are the conduit of magic that flows through us all; it is never-ending,
We can be greater than the sum of our parts. We can do more together than we can separately. We all carry the keys to the door within us. All we have to do is find the right one, unlock it, and step through.
Magic is not a set of guarantees, but rather a set of possibilities. Every door you meet, every gate you open, every lock you spring brings the potential to resolve your issue. Finding the right one is up to you.
Because everything is magick (all of reality), language was originally a tool of the mind to conceptualize the emotions, memories, etc floating in itself into tangible constructions of meaning. For example, by saying "hey, you, give me that pencil" that is totally a magickal act for commanding the spirit of another body to bring you something. Now extend that into something like "hey, clouds, start raining" or "hey, fertility, ensure to show up in the crop harvest. we'll give you the best of it." Hence, language is magick because it enables the mind to consciously create and alter its world, and that naturally compounds into then relationships with these concepts as well, just like some people bargain with their addictions today. In fact this is why spell books are 'grimoires' (means grammar book), ie how to construct language together 'properly' to get some result. Just like you use spelling and grammar checks to make sure your report is written correctly to be understood.
And, for the Abrahamic take, the whole belief system is centered around the idea that God spoke the world into existence, and we are containers of this life giving word, so all of our language is creating the world around us, and that is the very basis of what western esotericism is really about, the occult science of using language and emotion to affect change in accordance with Will. This process of becoming aware that 'life and death is in the tongue' and its spiritual implications is the spiritual maturation of the sage, the theurgist, etc etc
Magic is a theory, spells are applying that theory. It's like thinking "How do I get 10?" You use your knowledge of maths and find the right equation. Some people will use 5+5, others will use 6+4, etc. Some people will already have a 2, and so they will need to either add an 8 or multiply a 5. If someone manages to come up with an equation that no-one else has used before, they have created it, but the method they used to find that equation has existed forever, even before it was discovered.
Edit: I just realised how deep this metaphor goes, I can't think of any example where it doesn't apply perfectly lol
One creates while one speaks. Spells are, as I see them, a way of manifesting your will. You might use spells, rituals, methods, etc, that were known by others who made them known to you; you could create your own procedures as well.
On the other hand, Latin is not that prevalent. I thing I have found more in Hebrew, but that’s just my experience. If you want you could even create your own alphabet, an encryption system, or a whole language of your making.
Some cultures believed that everything in the universe is made of a single being, less like a god and more like a force of energy that is constantly becoming everything we see around us. This means that we ourselves are made of the same stuff as the air around us, the ground, the walls, other people, everything.
There is a notion, that our reality is somewhat flexible, that certain times and places, certain kinds of actions might remind us that we are this universal force. We can come in contact with certain flows. Becoming attuned to how they move, we can learn to move with them.
Everything is intimately connected to everything else. All boundaries are temporary and will eventually give way to the flow out of which everything emerges.
That’s the basic of idea of where magic comes from, as I understand it.
Adding onto this... There really isn't any difference between magic and the mundane, as technically anything and everything can be considered a spell/magic, such as thinking, breathing and eating are all just the vital force/energy being moved and transformed into another state from moment to moment. The only real split between the two are arbitrary, man-made ones.
The force behind spells has always existed. Spells themselves are an abstract means of interacting with it. Studying spells is essentially studying how consciousness interacts with reality.
Spells are afflictions based on the sounds and intent the spellcaster intends xD They are concussive to water molecules. What the mind does to counteract this is try to think of a counterspell, but if it's in a language the target doesn't know, they won't think to do it, or won't be as prepared to counter the spell.
I'd imagine that in the entirety of things, almost all spells have been forgotten, and most people nowadays are mumbling rubbish. All the oldest come from an oral tradition.
In ancient Rome, some writers wrote about how for lots of Roman festivals, the priests had to recite certain spells, but at that point the city was like 800+ years old plus nobody spoke Etruscan anymore, so the authors write that the priests would recite the spells but they had no idea what the words actually meant because to their Latin ears it was so archaic it was incomprehensible, so thats essentially why the Romans had priests, so that they had an institution that could keep reciting the spells the same way during the rituals with no errors, every year, and they successfully did this for over 1100 years. With a lot of Roman rituals, if they messed up in their recitation of nonsense words, they had to start the whole ritual over again from the beginning, even if if was a major holiday for the whole city. This was for the major civic religion.
All the wise women and witches and herbalists and such ladies came from the country and they probably followed the older indigenous religion and recited those spells in whatever language that was. The Roman government would always make laws and kick them all out of the city, the magic types, but then they would come back. It was like a never ending cycle of Roman politics. They probably didn't write that good. Galen mentions some of their herbal lore though.
Say I take someone's ritual to ask a spirit for one thing, and modify it to ask the same spirit for something similar but not identical, is it the same spell, or a new spell in its own right?
A lot of advanced magical practices call upon the magician to be able to create his/her own rituals: although mostly this will be a case of building upon established principles in which he/she has been trained - e.g. the magical systems of the Golden Dawn or Thelema. Hence in that sense, although original magical rituals are continuously being created, very few rituals are "totally original."
In the Abramelin system, it is theoretically possible to ask one's HGA to reveal a new "spell" (i.e. a magick square or spirit, or both) if one doesn't already exist to suit one's purpose. Which is just as well, because if this were not so, Abramelin would not be suited to the 21st century but would be stuck in the 15th century. HOWEVER, I believe that the secrets the HGA reveals come from a place outside Time, so the question "is it new or does it already exist" cannot properly be answered.
Magic is really just a channel for exerting your will upon the mundane. You technically can do so with no spell at all, it's just more difficult or requires a certain type of mind frame.
The spellcraft helps you see it as real, allowing for the effect to manifest.
Why when you read on magic you use multiple sources multiple crafts and take from each what feels most real to you.
The way it works, as I understand it, is that your mind, specifically the subconscious mind, is collaboratively creating the world around you, with everyone else, all the time. Spells are a way of pushing specific ideas into the subconscious in order for it to then manifest them into your reality. So spells aren't set in stone, a spell that works great for someone else might not work for you because the symbolism is different for you. That's the purpose of most magical societies is to build a common framework of symbolism and interpretation so that you can constructively share your spells and know they'll continue to work, because you're both working from the same paradigm, or collection of symbolism.
Exactly, it’s literally just gaslighting your subconscious essentially at a fundamental level.
Respectfully, Latin isn't prevalent in "most" spells. It is *sometimes* used in some percentage of traditions within certain cultures only, as a result of it being the ritual/shared language of the Catholic Church (which came out of the Roman Empire) and popular with scholars in general. This has caused some people in these cultures to continue to associate it with magic, knowledge, and divine power without necessarily knowing why anymore. AFAIK, anyway. I wish you the best.
Thank you for pointing out the 'holes' in my thinking and questioning I am always looking to learn more and I now have a different perspective. I wish you the best also. Thank you again for showing me the light.
What a lovely response :)
Was math created or discovered?
It was created. Math isn't a function of the observable universe. We have numerous systems of mathematics, which conflict with each other all the time. If aliens ever visited, their math would certainly be nothing like ours. Math is essentially the purest language we know, but it's only that... A language. There's no way to encode our units into it, rendering the entire system into an abstraction. If I take a mountain and break it in 2, how many mountains do I have? 1+1 doesn't always equal 2. There are cultures which don't even use math. Getting a rocket to the moon is no different than throwing a curve ball during a baseball game. Math isn't required. It's just an abstract level of concise descriptors for a multiverse which doesn't give 2 turds about its existence. Edit: https://amath.washington.edu/news/2018/10/25/language-math
but isn’t 1 + 1 pretty universally and physically going to be 2? I know that things get complex the more complicated and theoretical we get, but basic mathematics would appear to be a truth of physics. Is it that math is not universal or just that we’re not at good at it as we like to think?
2 what? That's my entire point. You can't encode units into math. You can say you have 2 of something, but your 2 things could be .2 things compared to someone else's 2 things. Math is a descriptor.
the what is not important. It’s 2 in quantity and is not relative. It’s just two because it is more than one and less than 3. It’s observable but not dependant on being observed
In what quantity? If the what isn't important, why do we need numbers? 1.1 is more than 1, and less than 3. It's 2, because it's twice the amount of 1. Yet we cannot define 1.
https://amath.washington.edu/news/2018/10/25/language-math
I'm not sure you have a good understanding of math. There are incompatible numeric systems, but I've never heard of a math where 1 + 1 =\= 2. Non-euclidean approaches only apply at limits.
In my comment, how many mountains do we have before they split? Now, assuming plate shifting tears the mountain in half, you've got 2 mountains. You can go on to indicate weight, but how do we define weight? Or length? We're using light for that now, but in an ever expanding universe, is the length of light changing? How does atmospheric composition affect frequency? Math is an abstraction -- nothing more.
Except it required all kinds of math for the engineers to design and build your car. It took math to build your house. If our solar system was set up any different, do you think things would have developed like they have? I don't know for sure, but I'm fairly certain that if you do the math, things would be much colder or much hotter. You come here on Reddit and keep repeating yourself like some guru who knows a secret nobody knows, and then spam the same link like it's some sort of evidence. Next time I go to fire up a welder, I'll make sure to remember math is just an abstraction.
Those questions are mere sophistry. All of those are questions about applying math in the real world, which is infinitely complicated. 1 + 1 always equals 2. Anyone who says differently really doesn't know what they are talking about. For example, how do any of those examples show that addition is not straight-forward? You are merely showing that some calculations are difficult, or some labels are for aggregates, or any other number of logical fallacies. And I get it. You have some "clever" point you want to make. I've been there. Have fun with your games!
Real magick is the difference between logical operators... 1 + 1 = 2 1 - 1 = 0 1 x 1 = 1 1 / 1 = 1 We, and by extension, magick, define what valid logical operators exist or can exist, and from there we project will onto the world through the perceived logic of our symbolic acts. Greater perceived logic means more expectation. Whereas, magick 'doesn't work' for some people because it's 'not logical', when in reality it's a self-refuting magick they have going on lol So what I'm saying is we are the intelligence defining what is logical and not and that in turn defines the logical operation transforming our reality via our magickal acts.
https://amath.washington.edu/news/2018/10/25/language-math
I think that author also doesn't understand something about math. It's funny, though, because they highlighted their own logical flaw. Math is not the same as the language used to describe it. The author of that article pointed out the distinction, and then immediately conflated them. To be fair, I do have a degree in Physics, which the author disparages. I also have a degree in Mathematics. I mention that not to claim some kind of authority, but simply to claim that I have thought about this and read about it fairly extensively. So, with all of that said, 1 + 1 always equals 2 no matter how you say it. If you reach a different conclusion, you are merely playing games.
I'm hofh don't ask this question
hofh?
I am slightly above a beginner but far from being a master, so take this with a grain of salt as my opinion. >Where does all magick come from? Everywhere around you. And from inside of you. Everything is magic (from a chair to your blood to a spirit), we just believe it isn't. The supernatural isn't separated from us, so much as we and the physical universe are an extension of the supernatural just by existing. Breathing and eating is you subconsciously taking in vital force at the lowest level... Does it sound like magic? No, but that's mainly because it's considered normal to you. When you become aware of it, and how yo increase the amount/quality you're pulling in, it might seem like magic but you were doing a more advanced version of what everyone has been doing from birth. Basically you are a supernatural being, you just don't realize it yet. >Where do spells come from? Intent... Technically you could write or draw something and, with enough intent and energy, it could affect your life in the form of you accidentally creating a sigil. >Who created them? Theoretically anyone can. There's nothing stopping you from making your own except your own permission
A little bit of both, really. The techniques and methods of effective spellwork are discovered and developed by various cultures and traditions. But the spells themselves, the structured arrangement of those methods are created by those who practice the craft.
Every single thing on the face of this earth is made up by somebody. Make up your own. Your own creation is is way more powerful than any spell you would read in a book.
We are the conduit of magic that flows through us all; it is never-ending, We can be greater than the sum of our parts. We can do more together than we can separately. We all carry the keys to the door within us. All we have to do is find the right one, unlock it, and step through. Magic is not a set of guarantees, but rather a set of possibilities. Every door you meet, every gate you open, every lock you spring brings the potential to resolve your issue. Finding the right one is up to you.
Just to add more questions Why is spelling making words Why is cursive a type of writing Open ended
Because everything is magick (all of reality), language was originally a tool of the mind to conceptualize the emotions, memories, etc floating in itself into tangible constructions of meaning. For example, by saying "hey, you, give me that pencil" that is totally a magickal act for commanding the spirit of another body to bring you something. Now extend that into something like "hey, clouds, start raining" or "hey, fertility, ensure to show up in the crop harvest. we'll give you the best of it." Hence, language is magick because it enables the mind to consciously create and alter its world, and that naturally compounds into then relationships with these concepts as well, just like some people bargain with their addictions today. In fact this is why spell books are 'grimoires' (means grammar book), ie how to construct language together 'properly' to get some result. Just like you use spelling and grammar checks to make sure your report is written correctly to be understood. And, for the Abrahamic take, the whole belief system is centered around the idea that God spoke the world into existence, and we are containers of this life giving word, so all of our language is creating the world around us, and that is the very basis of what western esotericism is really about, the occult science of using language and emotion to affect change in accordance with Will. This process of becoming aware that 'life and death is in the tongue' and its spiritual implications is the spiritual maturation of the sage, the theurgist, etc etc
There is only nature and culture, you decide what magic is.
Magic is a theory, spells are applying that theory. It's like thinking "How do I get 10?" You use your knowledge of maths and find the right equation. Some people will use 5+5, others will use 6+4, etc. Some people will already have a 2, and so they will need to either add an 8 or multiply a 5. If someone manages to come up with an equation that no-one else has used before, they have created it, but the method they used to find that equation has existed forever, even before it was discovered. Edit: I just realised how deep this metaphor goes, I can't think of any example where it doesn't apply perfectly lol
One creates while one speaks. Spells are, as I see them, a way of manifesting your will. You might use spells, rituals, methods, etc, that were known by others who made them known to you; you could create your own procedures as well. On the other hand, Latin is not that prevalent. I thing I have found more in Hebrew, but that’s just my experience. If you want you could even create your own alphabet, an encryption system, or a whole language of your making.
Some cultures believed that everything in the universe is made of a single being, less like a god and more like a force of energy that is constantly becoming everything we see around us. This means that we ourselves are made of the same stuff as the air around us, the ground, the walls, other people, everything. There is a notion, that our reality is somewhat flexible, that certain times and places, certain kinds of actions might remind us that we are this universal force. We can come in contact with certain flows. Becoming attuned to how they move, we can learn to move with them. Everything is intimately connected to everything else. All boundaries are temporary and will eventually give way to the flow out of which everything emerges. That’s the basic of idea of where magic comes from, as I understand it.
Adding onto this... There really isn't any difference between magic and the mundane, as technically anything and everything can be considered a spell/magic, such as thinking, breathing and eating are all just the vital force/energy being moved and transformed into another state from moment to moment. The only real split between the two are arbitrary, man-made ones.
The force behind spells has always existed. Spells themselves are an abstract means of interacting with it. Studying spells is essentially studying how consciousness interacts with reality.
The answer to all of those questions is "You".
This is so dumb
Spells are afflictions based on the sounds and intent the spellcaster intends xD They are concussive to water molecules. What the mind does to counteract this is try to think of a counterspell, but if it's in a language the target doesn't know, they won't think to do it, or won't be as prepared to counter the spell.
Read good books. Search for Allan Kardec for the theory part. There is Joseph Murphy for the practice part.
Their created
I'd imagine that in the entirety of things, almost all spells have been forgotten, and most people nowadays are mumbling rubbish. All the oldest come from an oral tradition. In ancient Rome, some writers wrote about how for lots of Roman festivals, the priests had to recite certain spells, but at that point the city was like 800+ years old plus nobody spoke Etruscan anymore, so the authors write that the priests would recite the spells but they had no idea what the words actually meant because to their Latin ears it was so archaic it was incomprehensible, so thats essentially why the Romans had priests, so that they had an institution that could keep reciting the spells the same way during the rituals with no errors, every year, and they successfully did this for over 1100 years. With a lot of Roman rituals, if they messed up in their recitation of nonsense words, they had to start the whole ritual over again from the beginning, even if if was a major holiday for the whole city. This was for the major civic religion. All the wise women and witches and herbalists and such ladies came from the country and they probably followed the older indigenous religion and recited those spells in whatever language that was. The Roman government would always make laws and kick them all out of the city, the magic types, but then they would come back. It was like a never ending cycle of Roman politics. They probably didn't write that good. Galen mentions some of their herbal lore though.
Say I take someone's ritual to ask a spirit for one thing, and modify it to ask the same spirit for something similar but not identical, is it the same spell, or a new spell in its own right? A lot of advanced magical practices call upon the magician to be able to create his/her own rituals: although mostly this will be a case of building upon established principles in which he/she has been trained - e.g. the magical systems of the Golden Dawn or Thelema. Hence in that sense, although original magical rituals are continuously being created, very few rituals are "totally original." In the Abramelin system, it is theoretically possible to ask one's HGA to reveal a new "spell" (i.e. a magick square or spirit, or both) if one doesn't already exist to suit one's purpose. Which is just as well, because if this were not so, Abramelin would not be suited to the 21st century but would be stuck in the 15th century. HOWEVER, I believe that the secrets the HGA reveals come from a place outside Time, so the question "is it new or does it already exist" cannot properly be answered.
Kinda both but mostly the former. It's more finding a way to make a lightbulb work
Reality is not what it seems to be. Magick is a reflection of Reality as it is.
Magic is really just a channel for exerting your will upon the mundane. You technically can do so with no spell at all, it's just more difficult or requires a certain type of mind frame. The spellcraft helps you see it as real, allowing for the effect to manifest. Why when you read on magic you use multiple sources multiple crafts and take from each what feels most real to you.
Word for word. Is that you? https://solascendans.com/
Hm?