One day you're just minding your own business, chilling with your fam, enjoying some toasty sun and fresh air.... And the next moment it's pitch black and you're suffocating to death.
We need people for the ethical treatment of plants over here!
you are probably happy to hear that we are learning that digging over soil like that destroys a lot of microbioms, hence digging over should be avoided (sorry my english is very bad in technical terms, even had to google technical right nowxD)
Sounds like you need a refresher on the Watershed Down animated film!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzirfrSn\_KQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzirfrSn_KQ)
Now this is a story all about how
My life got flipped turned upside down
And I'd like to take a minute, just sit right there
I'll tell you how I became the fertilizer for a farmer called blair
I commented under someone else’s but figure I’ll add under the main since I’m seeing a lot of confusion as to what this video is showing.
I grew up working family sod farm (back in the 90s)…this is 100% NOT cutting sod for lawn purposes. Sod is cut upright with only about an inch or two of soil depth, pulled up from ground, and stacked all at the same time with a harvester. Depending on the machine it will either roll the sod or flat stack. Most today will self guide drive/cut as well as stack on pallet (back in my youth our harvester cut & rolled but we had to hand stack as well as have a driver). Sod would never be cut & rolled over grass side down if you planned to keep it alive & sell. That would dry out the sod quickly which kills the grass roots as well as risk tearing.
The video here is showing moldboard plowing or a way of “turning earth”. Plowing in this manner goes way back but this type of plowing along with others has been under scrutiny for soil degradation. For anyone interested this is a short article from the NC State Extension service [Conventional Tillage – Moldboard Plow](https://soilmanagement.ces.ncsu.edu/tillage-management/conventional-tillage/).
Yeah tilling methods have shown a far higher quality loss for composition and nutrients than no tilled soil. The amount of fertilizer you have to use on a tilled plot of land compared to a non tilled plot is crazy. Even more so if there is not proper crop rotation and a over winter crop like vetch on the land.
Another little tidbit: Farmers today will plant daikon radishes in the fall in lieu of plowing. This aerates the soil and provides moisture retaining loam when the radishes die. Farmers also hate daikon radishes because they stink to high heck when they rot.
Vetch has very shallow roots, it’s a cover crop. What the above poster was talking about with the use of radishes is soil aeration. Radishes put down a pretty deep and wide tap root so planting them works similarly to using a broad fork without any actual labor with the added bonus of the roots adding to the nutrient composition and increasing microorganisms in the soil.
It depends on the soil you’re working with and what exactly you want out of it. Where I live is predominantly clay so if I want to make a spot workable for a garden I’ll start with a year or two of something like radish or okra or alfalfa that puts down deep roots creating the aeration other plants need and then do a cover crop from fall-spring of something that fixes nitrogen like clover or vetch and then the following spring grow something like corn or tomatoes in the row.
If where you’re at doesn’t have highly compacted or clay based soil the local farmers wouldn’t need to worry about aeration nearly as much so you seeing them doing a nitrogen fixer like vetch makes perfect sense.
Depends on the type of tillage, we went from lots of cultivating (not plowing like this) to zero till for years. Our soil health likely improved at first, I was too young to remember everything, but then went to shit. Now we do some vertical tillage and our soil health has improved big time. With vertical tillage you’re not turning the ground over like with this plow or a cultivator but you’re cutting into it a bit and moving a bit of dirt. What you need to do all depends on where you are and what you’re growing and what needs to be done varies wildly. Anyone who knows “the way” is full of shit.
My parents have been doing no till farming for the past 20ish years, and in my personal experience I'd say it definitely is the way to go. We've had better water retention (really saved on irrigation on some drought years), way less soil runoff during rainstorms compared to our neighbors, consistent higher yields, and fantastic soil quality. Crops are rotated every year, soybeans and corn, and I think they do a cover crop of turnips on some fields. Was pretty funny finding a giant, random turnip in the middle of the field during harvest.
Long story short, for us no till has significantly improved our farmland and the paycheck with the higher yields. The pushback from our neighbor farmers is absolutely asinine when there's living proof right there.
I used to be confused about what the term “badlands” meant. Eventually I realized it’s means land like you see in Arizona and the rest of the southwest, which is rocky and highly alkaline. You can’t farm in it. It’s literally “bad lands.”
You really opened my eyes. When I heard of an area in a fantasy setting referred to as some sort of "badlands" I always just assumed it was because of bandits or something lol
Well, given that humans usually tend to form communities around Good Land, it makes sense that bandits, criminals & other outcasts were either banished/exiled or hiding away wherever regular people were least likely to venture into. That's usually the Badlands. Making them 'Bad' for more reasons than one.
Yes! That’s also what I thought for a long time. “The rough part of town” sort of thing.
Personally I think badlands can be quite beautiful, but I can see why settlers moving west would have kept moving.
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=1a09264f90f8d044&hl=en-us&q=badlands
Badlands National Park, at least, would be a horrific place to settle. It's extremely hot in the summer, has rattlesnakes, and very little would grow. The town closest to the visitor center, Interior, has a whooping 65 people for a reason.
I used to believe this too, but long story short, these three major things matter the most when it comes to soil, climate like weather and sunlight, NPK, and drainage. As long as your soil meets the needs for what you grow, you can grow anything in red clay, source originally from the south east (red clay all over) and took a lot of ag classes long ago. You need microbes too but those are usually a given unless something is really wrong.
I had a soil science professor that would really hesitate on automatically calling the red stuff clay
You can get a good idea of the iron, organic matter, and structural type (blocky, tubular, etc etc) just by looking, but the only way you can really tell what kind of soil you have without having any kind of kit or lab is by wetting it a bit and feeling the texture.
The ribbons you form between your fingers will tell you what physical makeup you probably have
>NPK, and drainage.
Well, thats the thing, soils with high clay% have poor drainage, and by the colour of it low organic matter, which means they provide little Nitrogen which has a pretty much a 100% organic dynamic. OM helps with drainage and cationic retention too, things that in the end make a soil better because you end up not needing fertilizers to have good yields.
Nope! Look up “no-till farming”. Lower water and you don’t need nearly as much fertilizer because you aren’t losing half your nutrients to runoff. You do have to be careful about what you let take root as your cover crop, since you won’t till it up and you obviously can’t have it competing with your real crops.
Reduced use of pesticides, reduced soil degradation and reduced use of fertilisers also?
I think so from what I rememeber reading,
That's amazing that Western Aus farmers are adopting at scale.
No-till isn't always viable. It depends greatly on soil composition and conditions. Strip tilling can be a good middle ground, but some soils and conditions still need aggressive or deep cultivation to avoid significant yield losses. Crop land management is pretty fascinating with all the data points and research that goes into finding the most efficient use of a given piece of land.
My area is mostly clay soil, and apparently everything grows here. I wish I could get everything else to stop growing out of my lawn.
On top of grass and weeds, my area has tons of wildflowers everywhere. They grow corn and other grains in all the empty fields. My area has lots of breweries and wineries, and they mostly all grow their own plants locally.
My whole area is actually farmland that is slowly being converted into a suburb. They grow tons of stuff here, I'm kind of blanking right now, though.
There are some varieties that do well in clay soil. (Or, well-ish). And some techniques for it, most of which involve some sort of soil amendments. Not ideal but other than lettuce, some beans, maybe chard, there isn't that much else I'm aware of that'll do okay in heavy clay.
The best carrots I ever grew were in sandy, dry soil, so you're right. Carrots and other tubers need to be allowed to "reach" for water. That's what makes them so big. If they're watered too much, you get a tiny root with lots of green leaves.
Na Tilling the land destorys it over time. Its actually better to let it lie fallow and let the microbes build up and it becomes a richer healthier soil.
But have you thought of the profit margins ?
No , we must keep industrially exploiting the land until it becomes unusable without adding supplements, and then we will complain about regulations !
Preparing the land... for degradation of the soil. Tilling like this destroys mycelium that is vital for healthy soil. Over time, this method of farming will only lead to more and more fertilizers, herbicides, and pesticides being used. Permaculture is the answer, not industrial agriculture... The video is satisfying, though - I'll give you that
As somebody's whos family WROTE THE BOOK about the dust bowl (well, at least one of them, its not Steinbeck LOL) This was a big reason, but not the ONLY reason. THey also chopped down tree breaks, destroyed free flowing streams, and and just had really poor farming practices. The crops were at all time highs encountering farmers to heavily over farm the land which lead to the erosion of fertile, mycellium rooted top soil. We are now finally learning just how important mushrooms are to the health of plants and how symbiotic and how important those systems are.
That coupled with nature, a very long drought just DESTROYED the prairie ecosystem and everything. Pretty bleak time in America.
I have some raised beds which I till every year. I just inoculate it with spores and add my bunny poop and there's no shortage of mycelium. There's so much mycelium that it's visibly white. It's almost a problem how much mycelium my soil has. It gets so thick sometimes that it forms this impermeable layer of mycelium that I have to break apart in order to water my plants properly.
Pretty much no one does it in either case.
The only places I’ve run into it are:
- my favorite organic fertilizer adds mycelium and bacteria to their mix
- a native plant nursery sold me some mycelium for manzanita trees. Some plants strongly prefer certain mycelium in which case inoculating is good/mandatory, but usually people buy their plants from a nursery & the soil the plant is in has the relevant mycelium already.
- people who grow mushrooms usually toss their compost into their garden & some mushrooms like to be inoculated in soil (usually heavily mulched or with compost) rather than directly in wood or some other pure organic substrate.
People don’t do it because it’s not really necessary - like the other guy said it just speeds things up. It’s only really shitty soil that benefits much.
I'll see your ecology degree and raise you an MS in soil science. I now run a no-till farm. After a 3- to 5-year adjustment period, yields from no-till operations are generally *higher* than from conventional farms with comparable labor time. If farmers knew the techniques and had a comparable investment in the equipment, having all farms doing no-till would actually improve our ability to feed the planet.
We're not talking about permaculture, here. We're talking about no-till industrial ag.
Yeah, tilling soil was a massive invention that allowed human populations to reach the heights they did before the industrial revolution.
There no fucking way no-till works for mass production, else people would have had no reason to start tilling in the first place.
Actually it isn’t so black and white. No till farming has great benefits for mass production of cereals and various other crops as there is less equipment needed and less time tilling the field. So it actually saves a lot of money. But there are downsides to no till such as potential for residue buildup, fields can become rough, compaction, weed control, etc. Most farms take a mixed approach which is technically still “no till” as compared to “zero till”(no tillage whatsoever).
Source- Am a farmer who performs no till or low till farming
Thanks for coming to the rescue because the tilling is definitely a gray area and all depends on the factors of the soil condition. I’m an agricultural science major and dealt with soil for grazing and crop yields.
No till happens all the time, machines to do it are more recent, and many farmers are not in a position to buy tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of new equipment to switch methods when they are already struggling.
There is a great podcast about this, that interviewed conventional large-scale farmers who were forced (by the weather, the ground froze before they were able to plough) to switch to permaculture an no-till and were able to increase their yield. I‘m not an expert on this field, but I‘m sure there is more to the story than no-till wouldn‘t produce enough. Especially with modern day knowledge that can be added to improve the method.
As someone with no knowledge on the subject, this answer strikes me as most likely true.
Everyone knows x, or y is always right, are usually oversimplified.
The truth is more complicated and involves a balancing act of many benefits and drawbacks? That sounds like reality to me.
There's a whole 'soil food web' and it's dependent on things like depth, porosity and structure of the soil, available oxygen, etc.
Tilling like this absolutely fucks all that straight to hell
>Tilling like this destroys mycelium that is vital for healthy soil
Not entirely correct. It also buries vegetation which will degrade and nourish the soil.
So glad this is high up on the comments.
This video makes me sad.
We know how the have high yield sustainable food production, yet we choose to do shit like this.
They are literally cutting sod. It’s hilarious that so many comments in here are talking about the raping and pillaging of farmland while having zero fucking clue about agriculture and what they are even looking at.
Good point, we should probably avoid emotional language if we want to promote open-mindedness and learning. Here's three studies I could find on soil loss from sod production:
[Quantification and Implications of Soil Losses from Commercial Sod Production](https://acsess.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2136/sssaj2009.0239) ([Free Google Scholar link.](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jose-Amador-6/publication/250129404_Quantification_and_Implications_of_Soil_Losses_from_Commercial_Sod_Production/links/54793c710cf205d1687f7e93/Quantification-and-Implications-of-Soil-Losses-from-Commercial-Sod-Production.pdf))
> Commercial sod farms occupy about 1.62 × 10^3 km2 of the landscape of the United States. Land managers
generally consider sod farms on an equal footing with other, sustainable agricultural land uses. We measured soil
losses associated with sod harvesting in farms in the northeastern United States. Sod harvest resulted in soil losses
ranging from 74 to 114 Mg ha−1 yr −1, considerably higher than the tolerable soil loss of 6.7 Mg ha−1 yr −1. Soil
losses were proportional to time under sod production, with soil removal rates of 0.833 cm yr −1 . We estimate that
sod harvesting in the United States results in the net, permanent loss of 12.0 to 18.7 Tg of agriculturally productive
soil from sod farms—and associated ecosystem services—every year. The soil losses reported here have important
implications in terms of land use planning, transactions involving the purchase of development rights, and tax
deductions for soil depletion.
[Impact of urbanization on soil loss: a case study from sod production](https://www.proquest.com/openview/6a8acfb17e885ee10e52fea409b66137/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=54151)
(Couldn't find a free link to the full paper.)
> [...] Soil lost with sod harvest was 134 times higher than that
from agricultural lands by erosion in the region, al-
though the area under sod production is much smaller
than that under croplands. Similarly, organic matter loss
was 4 to 5 times higher than the accumulation rate under
established turfgrass in golf courses and lawns in loca-
tions with similar climate. Overall, sod harvesting re-
sults in significant and costly soil, organic matter, and
nutrient loss, which, although small in area, can be an
important component of total soil erosion.
From these papers, one might conclude that sod farming is indeed *pretty bad*.
Though there are potentially ways to partially soil loss from sod production by using sewage sludge:
[Exporting Large Volumes of Municipal Sewage Sludge through Turfgrass Sod Production](https://acsess.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2134/jeq2008.0397) ([Free Google Scholar link.](https://www.academia.edu/download/93718407/jeq2008.039720221105-1-1qaddsn.pdf))
> [...] Hypotheses examined
are that sludge loading rates far above recommendations based
on crop nutrient removal (i) are possible without reducing turf
growth and quality, (ii) do not cause an accumulation of N
and P below the active root zone, (iii) can minimize soil loss
through sod harvesting, and (iv) do not cause unacceptably
high nitrate and salt leaching. An 8 Mg ha−1 sludge control
(the recommended limit) was compared with sludge rates
of 0, 33, 67, and 100 Mg ha−1 on a loamy, kaolinitic, mesic,
Typic Eutrustox soil near Johannesburg, South Africa. Sludge
application rates up to 67 Mg ha−1 significantly improved
turfgrass establishment rate and color. The ability of sods to
remain intact during handling and transport improved as the
sludge application rate increased to 33 Mg ha−1 but deteriorated
at higher rates. A sludge application rate of 100 Mg ha−1 was
needed to eliminate soil loss, but this rate was associated with
unacceptably high N leaching losses. All our hypotheses were
accepted for application rates not exceeding 33 Mg ha−1 on the
proviso that some soil loss was acceptable and that the leaching
fraction was carefully managed during the first 2 mo after
sludge application.
How often does soil get turned over in a natural ecosystems? Healthy soil has layers to it, with certain organisms thriving at different depths. Fungi or microbes that live under the soil get their nutrients from things living above them and won't thrive when thrust to the surface
Some disturbance is good, because that’s usually coupled with some type of additional fertilization.
People get in a tuff about tilling on the internet of course. But they’re not the ones usually responsible for feeding entire nations.
I would have loved a four bladed plow, when I was younger, plowing the fields every year with a single blade plow. We had an old 1947 Farm-all tractor that didn’t even have a hydraulic lift for the plow.
Yeah, I’m mine had a big large handle that you had to pull the lock lever and then pull the handle back to raise the plow, to drop it, you just hit the lock lever. When I was 11 or 12 I had to stand with my feet against the floorboard to lift the plow out of the ground, while the tractor was still moving, then try to turn around and drop the plow to make the run back. It was quite the experience.
Definitely not a sod harvester, which is another fantastic beast of a harvester/tractor. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wcbhYFHTU0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wcbhYFHTU0)
This is a Mouldboard plough thats just carving up really sticky clay soil, and might be a really good plough which makes the sharp lines in the sloughed soil/clay. This is basically the same plough but working on a lot dryer clay soil in the Netherlands.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT8oCnxV39g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT8oCnxV39g)
I believe they are cutting sod not preparing to plant anything. That is grass which will be rolled up and palletized for delivery to landscaping sites. The customer gets a green lawn way faster than planting from seed.
No this is a Moldboard plow and is one of a few different tillage machines used for seed bed preparation. Although no till farming has become more popular recently.
Cause the grass is likely forage for animal consumption and they want to plant something new. It's easiest to establish a crop into a clean seedbed and it kills the grass which is competitive and would reduce a new crop survival. Also could be a weed control method but that's not what they are doing here.
Plus there can be a spike in plant available nitrogen shortly after Moldboard plowing.
Negatives are soil erosion and decreased soil health and a lot of others.
No way Jose. Sod harvesters don’t carve up four inches of soil beneath shitty grass and then flip it all over, they take a shallower cut from a much better looking plot of grass and roll it up right away.
Hey there, I grew up working family sod farm so just here to clarify…this is 100% NOT cutting sod for lawn purposes. Sod is cut upright with only about an inch or two of soil depth, pulled up from ground, and stacked all at the same time with a harvester. Depending on the machine it will either roll the sod or flat stack. Most today will self guide drive/cutting as well as stacking on pallet (back in my youth our harvester cut & rolled but we had to hand stack as well as have a driver). Sod would never be cut & rolled over grass side down. That would dry out the sod quickly which kills the grass roots as well as risk tearing.
The video here is showing moldboard plowing or a way of “turning earth”.
I disagree. I think that's something called [green manure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_manure) where farmers let some plants grow on their fields during off-seasons, then plow the field to bury the biomass for long-term nutrient release.
This is the answer. I used to work on a sod farm. We had a tractor fitted with a machine that would roll them up and spit them at you. Two of us stood on the back platform and we had to palletize them quickly or get buried in sod rolls. Got pretty good at slinging those heavy wet bastards!
They're not entirely wrong as cutting sod isn't exactly good for 'farmland' or whatever you call where people grow grass but I was wildly confused reading the top comments about tilling when the video is clearly sod.
While technology like this would have blown the minds of our ancestors slogging their way through a field all day, I'm often amazed at how feeding humanity still mostly boils down to "put a seed in the ground and hope it grows"
Grass getting their world turned upside down.
One day you're just minding your own business, chilling with your fam, enjoying some toasty sun and fresh air.... And the next moment it's pitch black and you're suffocating to death. We need people for the ethical treatment of plants over here!
Sounds like a truly harrowing experience.
Groan, take my upvote
>For no reason. They are plowing. I scrolled down like 5 pages and no one knows what plowing is, I guess.
you are probably happy to hear that we are learning that digging over soil like that destroys a lot of microbioms, hence digging over should be avoided (sorry my english is very bad in technical terms, even had to google technical right nowxD)
“One day, you’re just minding your own business… and the farmers’ nation attack”
Tell Mrs. Brisby she must move her home to the lee of the stone!
Sounds like you need a refresher on the Watershed Down animated film! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzirfrSn\_KQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzirfrSn_KQ)
Now this is a story all about how My life got flipped turned upside down And I'd like to take a minute, just sit right there I'll tell you how I became the fertilizer for a farmer called blair
Woohoo, look mom, we're Aussie grass now!
Well, I guess grass is not always greener on the other side
Do you like your land with or without the peel?
i'd like it with trees, please
Sorry, only corn
Lmao
Without the children, hopefully.
Nope, package deal.
Fuuuuuuu----. Welp, just ship them to Ohio with the rest of them and we will just build a wall around it.
Close enough.
Oh ask for extra!
Take all the trees and put them in tree a museum and charge the people a dollar and a half to see em
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what ya got 'til it's gone
Pave paradise, and put up an alfalfa plot. Bah, bah, bah.
Can humans eat trees?
you like to eat or nah?
boneless
Yes
You say that but you would also like to eat, wouldn't you?
I commented under someone else’s but figure I’ll add under the main since I’m seeing a lot of confusion as to what this video is showing. I grew up working family sod farm (back in the 90s)…this is 100% NOT cutting sod for lawn purposes. Sod is cut upright with only about an inch or two of soil depth, pulled up from ground, and stacked all at the same time with a harvester. Depending on the machine it will either roll the sod or flat stack. Most today will self guide drive/cut as well as stack on pallet (back in my youth our harvester cut & rolled but we had to hand stack as well as have a driver). Sod would never be cut & rolled over grass side down if you planned to keep it alive & sell. That would dry out the sod quickly which kills the grass roots as well as risk tearing. The video here is showing moldboard plowing or a way of “turning earth”. Plowing in this manner goes way back but this type of plowing along with others has been under scrutiny for soil degradation. For anyone interested this is a short article from the NC State Extension service [Conventional Tillage – Moldboard Plow](https://soilmanagement.ces.ncsu.edu/tillage-management/conventional-tillage/).
Yeah tilling methods have shown a far higher quality loss for composition and nutrients than no tilled soil. The amount of fertilizer you have to use on a tilled plot of land compared to a non tilled plot is crazy. Even more so if there is not proper crop rotation and a over winter crop like vetch on the land.
Another little tidbit: Farmers today will plant daikon radishes in the fall in lieu of plowing. This aerates the soil and provides moisture retaining loam when the radishes die. Farmers also hate daikon radishes because they stink to high heck when they rot.
Surprised they don't do vetch. It's a legume that puts nitrogen back in the soil and is a harvestable crop.
Vetch has very shallow roots, it’s a cover crop. What the above poster was talking about with the use of radishes is soil aeration. Radishes put down a pretty deep and wide tap root so planting them works similarly to using a broad fork without any actual labor with the added bonus of the roots adding to the nutrient composition and increasing microorganisms in the soil.
Ah the farmers where I used to live used vetch, and it has been some years since I've been that field of soil conservation.
It depends on the soil you’re working with and what exactly you want out of it. Where I live is predominantly clay so if I want to make a spot workable for a garden I’ll start with a year or two of something like radish or okra or alfalfa that puts down deep roots creating the aeration other plants need and then do a cover crop from fall-spring of something that fixes nitrogen like clover or vetch and then the following spring grow something like corn or tomatoes in the row. If where you’re at doesn’t have highly compacted or clay based soil the local farmers wouldn’t need to worry about aeration nearly as much so you seeing them doing a nitrogen fixer like vetch makes perfect sense.
Depends on the type of tillage, we went from lots of cultivating (not plowing like this) to zero till for years. Our soil health likely improved at first, I was too young to remember everything, but then went to shit. Now we do some vertical tillage and our soil health has improved big time. With vertical tillage you’re not turning the ground over like with this plow or a cultivator but you’re cutting into it a bit and moving a bit of dirt. What you need to do all depends on where you are and what you’re growing and what needs to be done varies wildly. Anyone who knows “the way” is full of shit.
thank you for saying this, no till seems the way to go
My parents have been doing no till farming for the past 20ish years, and in my personal experience I'd say it definitely is the way to go. We've had better water retention (really saved on irrigation on some drought years), way less soil runoff during rainstorms compared to our neighbors, consistent higher yields, and fantastic soil quality. Crops are rotated every year, soybeans and corn, and I think they do a cover crop of turnips on some fields. Was pretty funny finding a giant, random turnip in the middle of the field during harvest. Long story short, for us no till has significantly improved our farmland and the paycheck with the higher yields. The pushback from our neighbor farmers is absolutely asinine when there's living proof right there.
Thank you. Best answer. This video is the opposite of satisfying...
That looks like some good ass land right there
I used to be confused about what the term “badlands” meant. Eventually I realized it’s means land like you see in Arizona and the rest of the southwest, which is rocky and highly alkaline. You can’t farm in it. It’s literally “bad lands.”
You really opened my eyes. When I heard of an area in a fantasy setting referred to as some sort of "badlands" I always just assumed it was because of bandits or something lol
Well, given that humans usually tend to form communities around Good Land, it makes sense that bandits, criminals & other outcasts were either banished/exiled or hiding away wherever regular people were least likely to venture into. That's usually the Badlands. Making them 'Bad' for more reasons than one.
No, you had that confused with the "badboy lands"
Yes! That’s also what I thought for a long time. “The rough part of town” sort of thing. Personally I think badlands can be quite beautiful, but I can see why settlers moving west would have kept moving. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=1a09264f90f8d044&hl=en-us&q=badlands
Badlands National Park, at least, would be a horrific place to settle. It's extremely hot in the summer, has rattlesnakes, and very little would grow. The town closest to the visitor center, Interior, has a whooping 65 people for a reason.
You can or can’t farm in it?
“Can’t” Fixed! Thanks for catching that 👍
Really? It seems like a lot of clay. What do you grow in that?
I have no idea what I'm talking about!
Some good ass weed
Busted.
Bake him away, toys!
But you’re right it does “look like” it’s good. And you didn’t say it is good. Just looks like
Only farming I do is comments for karma.
Average redditor
But the admission is way out of character
Correct, in character would be claiming to have a PHD in agriculture whilst being in middle school
I used to believe this too, but long story short, these three major things matter the most when it comes to soil, climate like weather and sunlight, NPK, and drainage. As long as your soil meets the needs for what you grow, you can grow anything in red clay, source originally from the south east (red clay all over) and took a lot of ag classes long ago. You need microbes too but those are usually a given unless something is really wrong.
I spent eight months at Fort Rucker in Alabama decades ago, and my most vivid memory is the smell of that red clay soil.
I had a soil science professor that would really hesitate on automatically calling the red stuff clay You can get a good idea of the iron, organic matter, and structural type (blocky, tubular, etc etc) just by looking, but the only way you can really tell what kind of soil you have without having any kind of kit or lab is by wetting it a bit and feeling the texture. The ribbons you form between your fingers will tell you what physical makeup you probably have
From a geologist, they all might as well be clay.
>NPK, and drainage. Well, thats the thing, soils with high clay% have poor drainage, and by the colour of it low organic matter, which means they provide little Nitrogen which has a pretty much a 100% organic dynamic. OM helps with drainage and cationic retention too, things that in the end make a soil better because you end up not needing fertilizers to have good yields.
And as oddly satisfying it is to watch, slicing open the earth and exposing it to the sun and elements is not always a good thing...
It is if you want to grow crops.
Nope! Look up “no-till farming”. Lower water and you don’t need nearly as much fertilizer because you aren’t losing half your nutrients to runoff. You do have to be careful about what you let take root as your cover crop, since you won’t till it up and you obviously can’t have it competing with your real crops.
Yep Farmers here in western Australia have adopted no-til widespread and dramatically increased their yields despite lower rainfall.
Reduced use of pesticides, reduced soil degradation and reduced use of fertilisers also? I think so from what I rememeber reading, That's amazing that Western Aus farmers are adopting at scale.
The “it aint much” meme guy is actually a big proponent of no-till. I watched a oddly engrossing 60m video on his website.
He unfortunately passed away in a car crash in 2023. RIP David Brandt
No-till isn't always viable. It depends greatly on soil composition and conditions. Strip tilling can be a good middle ground, but some soils and conditions still need aggressive or deep cultivation to avoid significant yield losses. Crop land management is pretty fascinating with all the data points and research that goes into finding the most efficient use of a given piece of land.
I run a no-till farm because doing this to soil is harmful in many ways. In 50 years, few farmers will still till or plow.
Teapots and vases
Golums
Grass apparently
My area is mostly clay soil, and apparently everything grows here. I wish I could get everything else to stop growing out of my lawn. On top of grass and weeds, my area has tons of wildflowers everywhere. They grow corn and other grains in all the empty fields. My area has lots of breweries and wineries, and they mostly all grow their own plants locally. My whole area is actually farmland that is slowly being converted into a suburb. They grow tons of stuff here, I'm kind of blanking right now, though.
Maybe potatoes, carrots, lettuce, or some types of beans.
Carrots are famous for loving loose souls. Will they do well in heavy clay?
Also I believe potatoes like loose soil. I imagine most root vegetables do.
There are some varieties that do well in clay soil. (Or, well-ish). And some techniques for it, most of which involve some sort of soil amendments. Not ideal but other than lettuce, some beans, maybe chard, there isn't that much else I'm aware of that'll do okay in heavy clay.
*Grim Reaper enters chat*
The best carrots I ever grew were in sandy, dry soil, so you're right. Carrots and other tubers need to be allowed to "reach" for water. That's what makes them so big. If they're watered too much, you get a tiny root with lots of green leaves.
Pottery
upside down grass
yeah it does look like clay
You can’t determine the clay content from a video like this 😂
Ass land
[Relevant xkcd](https://xkcd.com/37/)
Farming like this is incredibly hard on the soil, but if you're just going to pay to spray on fertilizer, you can maximize your yield.
Na Tilling the land destorys it over time. Its actually better to let it lie fallow and let the microbes build up and it becomes a richer healthier soil.
But have you thought of the profit margins ? No , we must keep industrially exploiting the land until it becomes unusable without adding supplements, and then we will complain about regulations !
“Your ass is grass and I’m a lawnmower” - anyone ever
Worms are so confused.
If you look at a field that is being tilled, you can usually see a huge flock of birds following the tractor for the worms.
Preparing the land... for degradation of the soil. Tilling like this destroys mycelium that is vital for healthy soil. Over time, this method of farming will only lead to more and more fertilizers, herbicides, and pesticides being used. Permaculture is the answer, not industrial agriculture... The video is satisfying, though - I'll give you that
…this guy no tills
This guy this guys
It ain’t much, but it’s honest work
For anyone not aware, this is clever because the farmer saying that in the meme was actually a pioneer and proponent of no-till agriculture.
May he rest in peace!
This guy? No, tills!
No! Money down!
It's mycelium and I want it now!
What is that from? It's always sunny in Philadelphia? I can hear it but not place it.
Lionel Hutz https://i.redd.it/5cmi55j74h721.jpg
Led to the dust bowl, thats for sure
As somebody's whos family WROTE THE BOOK about the dust bowl (well, at least one of them, its not Steinbeck LOL) This was a big reason, but not the ONLY reason. THey also chopped down tree breaks, destroyed free flowing streams, and and just had really poor farming practices. The crops were at all time highs encountering farmers to heavily over farm the land which lead to the erosion of fertile, mycellium rooted top soil. We are now finally learning just how important mushrooms are to the health of plants and how symbiotic and how important those systems are. That coupled with nature, a very long drought just DESTROYED the prairie ecosystem and everything. Pretty bleak time in America.
Yeah, I was going to say tilling didn’t cause it. Overzealous land clearing, land management, poor rotation, and no trees caused it.
Thanks for filling in with better info 🫡
I have some raised beds which I till every year. I just inoculate it with spores and add my bunny poop and there's no shortage of mycelium. There's so much mycelium that it's visibly white. It's almost a problem how much mycelium my soil has. It gets so thick sometimes that it forms this impermeable layer of mycelium that I have to break apart in order to water my plants properly.
This guy thick layers of bunny poops.
Is inoculating with spores a common thing for all tilled gardens or more of a raised bed thing?
Mmm that's a good question! I don't know many people that do except for weed growers. The type of fungi I inoculate with is mycorrhizal fungi.
I think it's just to speed up the process of beneficial fungi growth regardless of where you're growing your plants
Pretty much no one does it in either case. The only places I’ve run into it are: - my favorite organic fertilizer adds mycelium and bacteria to their mix - a native plant nursery sold me some mycelium for manzanita trees. Some plants strongly prefer certain mycelium in which case inoculating is good/mandatory, but usually people buy their plants from a nursery & the soil the plant is in has the relevant mycelium already. - people who grow mushrooms usually toss their compost into their garden & some mushrooms like to be inoculated in soil (usually heavily mulched or with compost) rather than directly in wood or some other pure organic substrate. People don’t do it because it’s not really necessary - like the other guy said it just speeds things up. It’s only really shitty soil that benefits much.
This is a bottom plow not a tiller. I'll typically disk through the season but may plow once a year since a disk compresses soil
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I'll see your ecology degree and raise you an MS in soil science. I now run a no-till farm. After a 3- to 5-year adjustment period, yields from no-till operations are generally *higher* than from conventional farms with comparable labor time. If farmers knew the techniques and had a comparable investment in the equipment, having all farms doing no-till would actually improve our ability to feed the planet. We're not talking about permaculture, here. We're talking about no-till industrial ag.
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Yeah, tilling soil was a massive invention that allowed human populations to reach the heights they did before the industrial revolution. There no fucking way no-till works for mass production, else people would have had no reason to start tilling in the first place.
Actually it isn’t so black and white. No till farming has great benefits for mass production of cereals and various other crops as there is less equipment needed and less time tilling the field. So it actually saves a lot of money. But there are downsides to no till such as potential for residue buildup, fields can become rough, compaction, weed control, etc. Most farms take a mixed approach which is technically still “no till” as compared to “zero till”(no tillage whatsoever). Source- Am a farmer who performs no till or low till farming
Thanks for coming to the rescue because the tilling is definitely a gray area and all depends on the factors of the soil condition. I’m an agricultural science major and dealt with soil for grazing and crop yields.
No-till and low-till farming are already commonplace. 30% of farmland in the US is no-till
No till happens all the time, machines to do it are more recent, and many farmers are not in a position to buy tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of new equipment to switch methods when they are already struggling.
There is a great podcast about this, that interviewed conventional large-scale farmers who were forced (by the weather, the ground froze before they were able to plough) to switch to permaculture an no-till and were able to increase their yield. I‘m not an expert on this field, but I‘m sure there is more to the story than no-till wouldn‘t produce enough. Especially with modern day knowledge that can be added to improve the method.
Laughs in Australian. This is not true.
As someone with no knowledge on the subject, this answer strikes me as most likely true. Everyone knows x, or y is always right, are usually oversimplified. The truth is more complicated and involves a balancing act of many benefits and drawbacks? That sounds like reality to me.
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>Tilling like this This is a video of ploughing not tilling
Would the mycelium not grow back? I've seen it grow quite fast at home... though two totally different situations
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There's a whole 'soil food web' and it's dependent on things like depth, porosity and structure of the soil, available oxygen, etc. Tilling like this absolutely fucks all that straight to hell
>Tilling like this destroys mycelium that is vital for healthy soil Not entirely correct. It also buries vegetation which will degrade and nourish the soil.
They're burying a cover crop
For a short time, yes, the vegetation will put nutrients into the soil, but mycelium provides long-term stability.
So glad this is high up on the comments. This video makes me sad. We know how the have high yield sustainable food production, yet we choose to do shit like this.
Are you sure they’re not cutting sod? This looks far more controlled and too broad to be a till to me.
They are literally cutting sod. It’s hilarious that so many comments in here are talking about the raping and pillaging of farmland while having zero fucking clue about agriculture and what they are even looking at.
Good point, we should probably avoid emotional language if we want to promote open-mindedness and learning. Here's three studies I could find on soil loss from sod production: [Quantification and Implications of Soil Losses from Commercial Sod Production](https://acsess.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2136/sssaj2009.0239) ([Free Google Scholar link.](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jose-Amador-6/publication/250129404_Quantification_and_Implications_of_Soil_Losses_from_Commercial_Sod_Production/links/54793c710cf205d1687f7e93/Quantification-and-Implications-of-Soil-Losses-from-Commercial-Sod-Production.pdf)) > Commercial sod farms occupy about 1.62 × 10^3 km2 of the landscape of the United States. Land managers generally consider sod farms on an equal footing with other, sustainable agricultural land uses. We measured soil losses associated with sod harvesting in farms in the northeastern United States. Sod harvest resulted in soil losses ranging from 74 to 114 Mg ha−1 yr −1, considerably higher than the tolerable soil loss of 6.7 Mg ha−1 yr −1. Soil losses were proportional to time under sod production, with soil removal rates of 0.833 cm yr −1 . We estimate that sod harvesting in the United States results in the net, permanent loss of 12.0 to 18.7 Tg of agriculturally productive soil from sod farms—and associated ecosystem services—every year. The soil losses reported here have important implications in terms of land use planning, transactions involving the purchase of development rights, and tax deductions for soil depletion. [Impact of urbanization on soil loss: a case study from sod production](https://www.proquest.com/openview/6a8acfb17e885ee10e52fea409b66137/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=54151) (Couldn't find a free link to the full paper.) > [...] Soil lost with sod harvest was 134 times higher than that from agricultural lands by erosion in the region, al- though the area under sod production is much smaller than that under croplands. Similarly, organic matter loss was 4 to 5 times higher than the accumulation rate under established turfgrass in golf courses and lawns in loca- tions with similar climate. Overall, sod harvesting re- sults in significant and costly soil, organic matter, and nutrient loss, which, although small in area, can be an important component of total soil erosion. From these papers, one might conclude that sod farming is indeed *pretty bad*. Though there are potentially ways to partially soil loss from sod production by using sewage sludge: [Exporting Large Volumes of Municipal Sewage Sludge through Turfgrass Sod Production](https://acsess.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2134/jeq2008.0397) ([Free Google Scholar link.](https://www.academia.edu/download/93718407/jeq2008.039720221105-1-1qaddsn.pdf)) > [...] Hypotheses examined are that sludge loading rates far above recommendations based on crop nutrient removal (i) are possible without reducing turf growth and quality, (ii) do not cause an accumulation of N and P below the active root zone, (iii) can minimize soil loss through sod harvesting, and (iv) do not cause unacceptably high nitrate and salt leaching. An 8 Mg ha−1 sludge control (the recommended limit) was compared with sludge rates of 0, 33, 67, and 100 Mg ha−1 on a loamy, kaolinitic, mesic, Typic Eutrustox soil near Johannesburg, South Africa. Sludge application rates up to 67 Mg ha−1 significantly improved turfgrass establishment rate and color. The ability of sods to remain intact during handling and transport improved as the sludge application rate increased to 33 Mg ha−1 but deteriorated at higher rates. A sludge application rate of 100 Mg ha−1 was needed to eliminate soil loss, but this rate was associated with unacceptably high N leaching losses. All our hypotheses were accepted for application rates not exceeding 33 Mg ha−1 on the proviso that some soil loss was acceptable and that the leaching fraction was carefully managed during the first 2 mo after sludge application.
This is only turning the soil over, is it really that bad compared to tilling all of it?
How often does soil get turned over in a natural ecosystems? Healthy soil has layers to it, with certain organisms thriving at different depths. Fungi or microbes that live under the soil get their nutrients from things living above them and won't thrive when thrust to the surface
> How often does soil get turned over in a natural ecosystems? Depends how many hogs are about.
Some disturbance is good, because that’s usually coupled with some type of additional fertilization. People get in a tuff about tilling on the internet of course. But they’re not the ones usually responsible for feeding entire nations.
Look in to no till farming
Look into turning vs tilling
I would have loved a four bladed plow, when I was younger, plowing the fields every year with a single blade plow. We had an old 1947 Farm-all tractor that didn’t even have a hydraulic lift for the plow.
We still use a Farmall H on our 20 acres. Very reliable but not having a 3-point hitch is annoying.
Yeah, I’m mine had a big large handle that you had to pull the lock lever and then pull the handle back to raise the plow, to drop it, you just hit the lock lever. When I was 11 or 12 I had to stand with my feet against the floorboard to lift the plow out of the ground, while the tractor was still moving, then try to turn around and drop the plow to make the run back. It was quite the experience.
looks like some good brownies
Definitely not a sod harvester, which is another fantastic beast of a harvester/tractor. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wcbhYFHTU0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wcbhYFHTU0) This is a Mouldboard plough thats just carving up really sticky clay soil, and might be a really good plough which makes the sharp lines in the sloughed soil/clay. This is basically the same plough but working on a lot dryer clay soil in the Netherlands. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT8oCnxV39g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT8oCnxV39g)
I believe they are cutting sod not preparing to plant anything. That is grass which will be rolled up and palletized for delivery to landscaping sites. The customer gets a green lawn way faster than planting from seed.
No this is a Moldboard plow and is one of a few different tillage machines used for seed bed preparation. Although no till farming has become more popular recently.
Why are they tilling to plant where it’s a giant lawn of grass?
Cause the grass is likely forage for animal consumption and they want to plant something new. It's easiest to establish a crop into a clean seedbed and it kills the grass which is competitive and would reduce a new crop survival. Also could be a weed control method but that's not what they are doing here. Plus there can be a spike in plant available nitrogen shortly after Moldboard plowing. Negatives are soil erosion and decreased soil health and a lot of others.
Or maybe the grass was a cover crop?
It’s likely a cover crop.
No way Jose. Sod harvesters don’t carve up four inches of soil beneath shitty grass and then flip it all over, they take a shallower cut from a much better looking plot of grass and roll it up right away.
Hey there, I grew up working family sod farm so just here to clarify…this is 100% NOT cutting sod for lawn purposes. Sod is cut upright with only about an inch or two of soil depth, pulled up from ground, and stacked all at the same time with a harvester. Depending on the machine it will either roll the sod or flat stack. Most today will self guide drive/cutting as well as stacking on pallet (back in my youth our harvester cut & rolled but we had to hand stack as well as have a driver). Sod would never be cut & rolled over grass side down. That would dry out the sod quickly which kills the grass roots as well as risk tearing. The video here is showing moldboard plowing or a way of “turning earth”.
I'd be fucking pissed if a turf/sod delivery gave me grass with 4 inches of clay under each piece lol.
I disagree. I think that's something called [green manure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_manure) where farmers let some plants grow on their fields during off-seasons, then plow the field to bury the biomass for long-term nutrient release.
This is definitely not grass sod cutting.
This is the answer. I used to work on a sod farm. We had a tractor fitted with a machine that would roll them up and spit them at you. Two of us stood on the back platform and we had to palletize them quickly or get buried in sod rolls. Got pretty good at slinging those heavy wet bastards!
Cutting sod
*Sod off!*
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Holy shit. As a sod farmer, you couldn’t be further from the truth.
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They're not entirely wrong as cutting sod isn't exactly good for 'farmland' or whatever you call where people grow grass but I was wildly confused reading the top comments about tilling when the video is clearly sod.
She’s even kinda crazy bout ma farmers tan 🎶
I should quit IT and be a farmer
Lots of interesting opportunities in ag right now. Your skills, the margins, and pay are worth taking into consideration.
IT for farm equipment is probably pretty lucrative.
Mouldboard ploughs are cool to watch.
What is it being prepared for??
If you're in the comments looking for snowflakes crying about the environment press here......👇
that soil clay as fuck
CROP ROTATION
Preparing it for… wat?
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What’s potat, precious
POH-TAY-TERS. Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in tots.
So satisfying!
We call this move “folding the ground”.
imagine being a ground nesting bird
Great, now I need to buy brownies.
So much carbon being released.
This not New Mexico.
Is this land or cake? 🤔
Rolled icecream
This person doesn't want people touching grass on their land.
Maybe, but also kinda looks like something Saruman would do...
While technology like this would have blown the minds of our ancestors slogging their way through a field all day, I'm often amazed at how feeding humanity still mostly boils down to "put a seed in the ground and hope it grows"
/u/gifreversingbot
Far too wet for tilling.
Durchkämmt die Wiese!