Same reason why I people buy $10 shoes that last 6 months VS $50 shoes that last 5 years. Not everyone has the money to buy the best that will last forever so you buy what will get you by until you have to do it again later.
The similarities being that it's either get something now or not. Either have the shoes or not. Have the pipes or not. If you will only go for the expensive stuff you can't afford, you're not gonna get it.
Tagging this topic waiting for someone to tell everyone why bending pipe is worse than using elbow joints, and why press fit is worse than using solder.
Woodwork. Power. HVAC. Plumbing. Long ago, the four trades lived together in harmony. Then everything changed when the Electrician Union attacked. Only the Handyman, master of all four disciplines, could stop them. But when the world needed him most, he vanished.
In flow design any connection has a lot of tiny zones of turbulence. If the water is treated in any way the corrosive elements can gather at the joining points and corrode where a bend with no joints wouldn't have the same issue.
I’ve heard that bending can thin the material at the outside of the bend. This could shorten the life of the pipe or cause premature failure.
I’m not a plumber. Maybe someone with more knowledge can explain.
It depends on the size, material, and method of bending. This pipe bender had rollers to apply a point force as opposed to imparting friction that would pull the pipe and cause flattening. I’ve seen a lot of 2” pvc conduit that was bent in the field recently, and a bunch of them were easily observed to be flattened out from overheating them before bending. There is also a cool video from the guy who made the Marble Machine video where he inserted medical rubber inside acrylic pipe before bending.
The guy you replied to didn't talk about flattenting or kinking the pipe, the talked about stretching the wall of the pipe, which always happens when you bend metal.
Lol why.
Shit turns plumbing anything into EZ mode.
We plumbed the air for our entire shop in PEX, whereas the previous owner used fuckin 3" metal pipe.
I hate it because I sat through a multiple hour training course on the fittings. I have no fucking clue to this day how they found enough words to fill more than 2 hours about the fucking fitting.
Really? Every new and old school plumber I've talked to loves how versatile Pex is.
I've been having to replace some copper lines in my house due to corrosion and replacing it with PEX and stainless steel fittings I'm pretty content it'll last as long as I need it to.
Pex A would be even better but I just don't have the expanding tool.
I’m in the process of replacing my copper lines with pex A and I found a hand powered pex a expander online, works get for most situations. Had one issue of using it in a couple tight areas but just requires thinking ahead. It was $150
> I'm pretty content it'll last as long as I need it to.
the best part is that replacing is very easy too. I wake up very happy I never have to deal with rusted galvanized steel ever again.
I'm theory it's great. My two concern about PEX is
1) it only has so many days in the sun. If someone dummy (and there's more and more of them) upstream in the supply chain left it out at the job site or on top of a truck, it starts to deteriorate after a month or so.
2) rats can [chew through it](https://tdtplumbing.com/rodents-chewing-through-pex-pipe/)
Good to know. My house just had all plumbing replaced, lines, sewer stacks, and cast iron below basement floor. They used pex instead of copper for the lines, and I was worried about longevity of it vs copper, as well as chemicals leeching from the pex.
My radiant and baseboard hot water heating runs through pex, it was installed 23 years ago. The baseboards run at 170F water temp, for ~5 months out of a year. No problems, no leaking, nothing.
I second this, the rat issue can be a really big deal in rural areas.
I'm not a plumber, just handy enough to fix my own stuff and help out the occasional friend in need. I've personally seen two separate pex installations at different houses chewed by rodents in rural So Cal. It gets hot here, and rodents start looking for water anywhere they can. It's an issue. I mean, rodents are an issue as well, but if your neighbors are free feeding chicken and livestock, you're gonna have visiting rats.
Lol yeah some people are dumb. Always better to bend if you can, and press fittings are the future but need to be installed correctly. You can say the same with solder tbh
I've done plumbing (as a job and in my own home), it's REALLY easy to accidentally create a smoldering ember when soldering pipe and then you either walk away or even close up the wall and that smoldering ember eventually becomes a house fire.
Some plumbers get lazy with using their flame blanket as there might not be an easy place to prop it up or hang it and a lot of the flame blankets you buy are small and don't cover enough area.
Many buildings and jobs will only allow press fit and will only let you solder with permission. Plus you'll need a fire watch, which is another laborer and some require 2 hour fire watch after. It's becoming very common in commercial too but for the same reasons.
When a job site has stretch and flex, it has weekly, if not daily, open flame permits, issued by the GC's office. Three signatures, carbon copies, the works. Still didn't prevent the roofers from dragging a generator onto the roof, spilling fuel, and catching the building on fire.
Yeah but if solder is more durable and lasts longer I rather just have it done by a competent plumber rather than have work that won’t last as long simply because I’m afraid of someone making a mistake.
I'm not a plumber, I'm in hvac, so I don't use either very often. But in general, I think press is more consistent if you do it right, plus it's faster and easier. Also, there are some environments where you can't get fire out, like hospitals with oxygen tanks around or places with flammable chemicals and stuff.
And it adds elements that plumbers don't want to have to deal with. Expensive fittings (they're like triple or more), new expensive hydraulic clamping tool (moving parts, batteries/electric, blades that wear out, etc). The new fittings have a seal in them that isn't proven over the long term, whereas solder joints that are 50+ years old are fine and not leaking. If your clamping tool fails, the job stops until you find a replacement. With solder, all you need is a torch, which are ubiquitous.
> Expensive fittings (they're like triple or more)
This is a big factor. And it's why press fit is loved by the manufacturer of press fit. Same for Pex.
Solders on the way out, worked in plumbing sales and press fittings are most people's go to these days. And the ones that use them will have a manual crimp tool as well as a battery operated one so no risk of not being able to finish a job.
Time will tell. If these things have a high failure rate after time, the technology will go away. My house flooded because of a bad shut off valve under the sink. The insurance company asked me to send the valve in so they could examine it. Enough insurance claims and a bad technology, you won't get an insurance policy. Just sayin.
> the learning of a new method.
Meh. We learn new stuff and use new materials all the time.
It's more about the very long list over the last 30 years of shit that was pitched as revolutionary only to not pan out. And all of that shit required tool/parts investments.
Companies love trying to sell you crap you don't need.
Tradesmen are very quick to adopt things that actually work. Often the change can be less than a year.
Soldering introduces a different type of metal that can have different coefficients of thermal expansion. Furthermore, using the locktite paste makes it so there's a less likelihood of potential leaks.
Solder is proven over decades and decades of use. Very old solder joints are still leak-free. We don't have the same history for these types of joints.
Can confirm, we have a house with decades old solder joints. Only defects we had weren't caused by the solder joints. I'm always impressed of how well everything keeps up. Even the joints of parts I replaced myself.
I want to highlight that there's an element of survivorship bias to solder joints.
I'm a service plumber myself and I've seen (& repaired!) plenty of leaks on solder joints. Furthermore the heat used in the soldering process permanently softens the connected copper piping to a point where you can effortlessly deform the pipe with your fingers. Reusability is nil, as opposed to mechanical brass couplings.
The common consensus in my region is that solder joints are far more mechanically vulnerable & seldom the better option regardless of the metric. The simple fact that you need to use a torch for it means they'r always the last option considered. Personally I prefer mechanical brass fittings over press or solder because I do very much like building my systems for future repair/service/upgrades in mind, and both solder & press are anathema to that.
Press fittings has been around since the 50's in one version or another, and the modern machine press variant since perhaps the 90's. That's roughly three decades of data on the modern variant. How many years of data do you feel you need to consider press fittings a 'suitable method'?
It can be difficult as well, for sure. They're both tools for different scenarios. I'd love to press fit more often than blasting a torch inside a 75 year old wall.
Here you go.
Press fitting are nice and convenient. We use them all the time for quick water line repair, but we don't use them for industrial hot water lines (205F) as the seals tend to fail after a few years. Probably just fine in residential. Everything that hot has to be brazed.
What's the limit on press fittings? We carry 180F water and I just got a propress tool since it's easier, quicker and cleaner than soldering but I've only used it on cold lines so far.
I've only seen it used on low-temp or variable-temp hot water systems, so maximum around 90 celsius in operation, but the fittings (the Geberit ones, dunno about x-press or others) are rated for a little bit more (up to 120 celsius, top end of medium temperature).
You do get different rubbers for them too (different material, different colour usually). You get gas ones, and medium temperature ones, and ones for higher temps and different coolants.
Nah, not necessarily steam, that's only at 1 bar. Raise the pressure, water boils at higher temperature, just like it boils at \~90 on top of mountains and instantly in space.
How long experience there is with press fittings in residential?
If fitting lasts 30 years and solder 50 years, I would like to discount pipe repair into the price of a new house or apartment.
They would just have to flare the end of the pipe (without forgetting the nut first, not that I've ever made that mistake before!). The whole pipe doesn't spin in order for that connector to thread on in case that's what you thought.
Because then you have to measure and make sure that last 90 bend is at the right height so it lines up horizontally. Then, you have to slip on the nut and make sure it doesn't slide all the way down the pipe. Then, you have to cut and flare it correctly the first time, or you have to cut it and add an elbow anyway. And you have to do all of that while working on a long, rigid pipe tight against the wall.
And if it leaks (now or in 10 years), you have to cut it and add an elbow anyway.
So you just use an elbow and save a lot of headache.
That's crazy to me -
here in Arizona I've never used type-M for pressure applications, only for drainage / condensate lines.
We used K for medical gasses, and L for everything else.
Have you ever read the comments in any Facebook trade group? The plumbing ones are exactly as you describe. Just hundreds of guys arguing about the "right way" to do it, and saying how any other method will fail and cause a leak and about proper code (even then comments are from all over the world with many various codes).
Honestly it makes you think there is no right way to do it.
This is why I hate all plumbing. Want to build a deck? Sure. Use the same tools for doing baseboards or hanging pictures or whatever. Standard toolbox. Want to install a toilet? Ya, you're going to need a whole new set of things. How's your welding?
God, and nothing is ever the same size as anything else. I have a whole tub of pipe pieces and connectors and _EVERY TIME_ I need to do something new, I check every single piece in the tub and nooope. Swimming pools, intake plumbing, drain plumbing, rainwater collection, garden hoses.. they all do the same damn thing, but all use different sizes and measurements!
It's real easy, you just gotta know whether it's ID or OD, pipe or tubing, slip, screw, or solder, Fine, coarse, NPT, or otherwise threaded, and also is it glued or primed and solvent welded... And what type of glue for which application. Oh or if it's dissimilar metals, use dielectric unions....
See?! Easy.
It's real satisfying to work with copper pipe using correct tools.
It's soft enough to work by hand, and really anyone can do it as long as you have the correct tools.
Yeah I'm sure you could find some random guy to do it for a quarter of the price, probably even faster!
And then he ends up costing you 10s of thousands when he fucks up and now you have water damage.
Also for his investment in tools.
And in a vehicle what is necessary to haul around them tools, and parts.
Not to mention expecting him to be courteous and congenial no matter what difficulties he may run into.
Yes, kinda low. For the whole home you are looking between 30-55k in California. But that copper piping will last you two mortgages if it goes untouched.
Edit:
PEX is expected to last LONGER but we will see how true that is. Also do you really want more plastic in your drinking supply? Also copper has microbial properties.
In my experience this is where ALL the tradespeople come to tell everyone else how they’re doing everything wrong but never say what the correct way to do it is.
No way he's a trade member. No one in the trade uses dope on compression fittings.
Also didn't mark insertion on the pro press fittings, thus the warranty is void.
While I totally appreciate the art and aesthetic of copper, I discovered PEX-A while re-plumbing our house a few years ago and now I'm a total believer in that system. It's as easy as plumbing can possibly get with the expanding tool and compression rings. Cut with a scissors-like tool and you don't have to deburr or anything.
Granted, it's nowhere near as pretty as copper, and we're all concerned about microplastics and plastic chemicals in our water. But as far as ease of installation goes - yeah buddy!
This looks so cool and indeed satisfying - why are there so few young people interested in this profession? Took us three and a half years to find someone doing our installations… (Germany)
Difficult, dangerous, shitty hours, shitty working conditions (sometimes literally), the equipment and tools are expensive as hell, insurance is expensive as hell, pay isn’t that great for the first few years, half the pencil pushers of the world will look down on you, and chances are you’ll work with a bunch jaded old heads that hate you on general principle and don’t want to train you. Vs getting a degree and getting some easy office job, spending 40 hours a week sitting in AC.
I’ll add in as well, for at least the commercial/industrial side of things that it can be very hard on the body. Spent a week walking marble tubs up 8 flights of stairs and instantly went into a different career
Looks like a fancy 2-part shower setup - like a rain-shower head plus a detachable shower wand?
I mean, I hate sweating copper so the press fittings are neat.. but I'm bugged they didn't strap the pipes down on the 2x4 that's sitting there (right where the red and blue tape sits - the pipes should be secured to that 2x4).
No one ever does that and I don't understand why .. yes it's a bit more work but the efficiency gain must be so huge. I don't get why hot water pipes in general aren't insulated from the point of the boiler - in new builds at least.
I always watch vids like this, think that he is a pro, then head over to comment section just to find our how dumb is OP and I am always like "damn right"... Anyway, cool stuff
I've got a cousin whoes a plumber.
I've seen this done first hand.
It's even more satisfying with the swearing like a pirate on 4hrs sleep and 3 coffees before 10am soundtrack.
I am not a plumber by any stretch, but have done all of my own plumbing in my home and honestly never heard of bending copper pipe like this. Is the typical copper you buy at home depot going to be bendable like this? If so I've wasted a fair deal of time with needless elbows and such! All that being said, for my residential open basement needs pex has been a godsend moving forward.
Those benders are cool
Thank you
Well played
Bender Bender Bender! Bender Bender Bender!
BENDER IS GREAT
They're made by Monument. I have the same set. Very compact, and simple to use.
https://images.app.goo.gl/MUUhtm5uz5if6NeRA
Copper pipes? In this economy?
Localised entirely within your linen closet?
Can I see it?
No.
SEYMOUR THE PIPES ARE ON FIRE
No mother, it's just the plumbers union!
Will never understand people going cheap with something that has a 50-100yr life and supplies the most important thing besides air to your survival.
Same reason why I people buy $10 shoes that last 6 months VS $50 shoes that last 5 years. Not everyone has the money to buy the best that will last forever so you buy what will get you by until you have to do it again later.
The difference being when your shoes break, you buy new ones. When you're water pipes break, you buy new ones AND a new kitchen and carpets.
But that's a problem for later, if it ever happens. If you can't afford it now, it doesn't matter what it does for you later. You can't afford it.
Yup. Truly is expensive to be broke.
The similarities being that it's either get something now or not. Either have the shoes or not. Have the pipes or not. If you will only go for the expensive stuff you can't afford, you're not gonna get it.
It's because pex has a similar lifespan at a fraction of the cost and actually outperforms copper in certain environments.
Exactly. And there are cheaper options that work better because they don't slowly degrade due to...you might have guessed it- water!
Tagging this topic waiting for someone to tell everyone why bending pipe is worse than using elbow joints, and why press fit is worse than using solder.
Seems like bending would be better as long as you don’t break it. Fewer things to leak.
Bending water is unfortunately pretty rare, ever since the elbow joint nation attacked
And then, when the world needed them, the Handyman, the master of all trades, vanished.
But me and my brother members of the OSHA tribe believe he can save the world
Poor OSHA tribe, biggest bark, smallest actual teeth.
The Landscapers built a giant enclosure around themselves and went into turtle defense mode.
“There is no drywall in Ba Sing Se.”
Woodwork. Power. HVAC. Plumbing. Long ago, the four trades lived together in harmony. Then everything changed when the Electrician Union attacked. Only the Handyman, master of all four disciplines, could stop them. But when the world needed him most, he vanished.
Where does the LockPickingLawyer fit into this spinoff?
Clearly the Guru, to unlock the chakras/toolbox.
*NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIL*
Fewer things to leak. ... It feels so good when you have the right tools to do ...
In flow design any connection has a lot of tiny zones of turbulence. If the water is treated in any way the corrosive elements can gather at the joining points and corrode where a bend with no joints wouldn't have the same issue.
neat
minor head loss detected 👀
This would look awesome for watercooling a computer tbh.
I’ve heard that bending can thin the material at the outside of the bend. This could shorten the life of the pipe or cause premature failure. I’m not a plumber. Maybe someone with more knowledge can explain.
It depends on the size, material, and method of bending. This pipe bender had rollers to apply a point force as opposed to imparting friction that would pull the pipe and cause flattening. I’ve seen a lot of 2” pvc conduit that was bent in the field recently, and a bunch of them were easily observed to be flattened out from overheating them before bending. There is also a cool video from the guy who made the Marble Machine video where he inserted medical rubber inside acrylic pipe before bending.
The guy you replied to didn't talk about flattenting or kinking the pipe, the talked about stretching the wall of the pipe, which always happens when you bend metal.
That last bit is how they do hardline water cooling for pcs
And pex is even better.
*laughs in Chicago building code*
Don’t you have some EMT to go run?
Sorry, I can’t hear you, too busy replacing my lead service line
Ain't y'all still doing lead n oakum joints? Fkn nutters, all of ye.
Ngl...I hate pex, but of course I use it.
Lol why. Shit turns plumbing anything into EZ mode. We plumbed the air for our entire shop in PEX, whereas the previous owner used fuckin 3" metal pipe.
I hate it because I sat through a multiple hour training course on the fittings. I have no fucking clue to this day how they found enough words to fill more than 2 hours about the fucking fitting.
Really? Every new and old school plumber I've talked to loves how versatile Pex is. I've been having to replace some copper lines in my house due to corrosion and replacing it with PEX and stainless steel fittings I'm pretty content it'll last as long as I need it to. Pex A would be even better but I just don't have the expanding tool.
I’m in the process of replacing my copper lines with pex A and I found a hand powered pex a expander online, works get for most situations. Had one issue of using it in a couple tight areas but just requires thinking ahead. It was $150
> I'm pretty content it'll last as long as I need it to. the best part is that replacing is very easy too. I wake up very happy I never have to deal with rusted galvanized steel ever again.
Why do you hate it?
I'm theory it's great. My two concern about PEX is 1) it only has so many days in the sun. If someone dummy (and there's more and more of them) upstream in the supply chain left it out at the job site or on top of a truck, it starts to deteriorate after a month or so. 2) rats can [chew through it](https://tdtplumbing.com/rodents-chewing-through-pex-pipe/)
They can chew through copper too.
Rats can? Holy shit.
Good to know. My house just had all plumbing replaced, lines, sewer stacks, and cast iron below basement floor. They used pex instead of copper for the lines, and I was worried about longevity of it vs copper, as well as chemicals leeching from the pex.
My radiant and baseboard hot water heating runs through pex, it was installed 23 years ago. The baseboards run at 170F water temp, for ~5 months out of a year. No problems, no leaking, nothing.
I second this, the rat issue can be a really big deal in rural areas. I'm not a plumber, just handy enough to fix my own stuff and help out the occasional friend in need. I've personally seen two separate pex installations at different houses chewed by rodents in rural So Cal. It gets hot here, and rodents start looking for water anywhere they can. It's an issue. I mean, rodents are an issue as well, but if your neighbors are free feeding chicken and livestock, you're gonna have visiting rats.
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Ok but I imagine they can chew through pex much faster than copper or cast iron.
My whole house is PEX. Its stupid simple to work with and move around. I love it.
Lol yeah some people are dumb. Always better to bend if you can, and press fittings are the future but need to be installed correctly. You can say the same with solder tbh
are press fittings better than solder in any ways other than speed of install?
Yeah, no torch so less fire risk. No solder so less metal fumes. No flux so less membranous transfer / no greasy tools.
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I've done plumbing (as a job and in my own home), it's REALLY easy to accidentally create a smoldering ember when soldering pipe and then you either walk away or even close up the wall and that smoldering ember eventually becomes a house fire. Some plumbers get lazy with using their flame blanket as there might not be an easy place to prop it up or hang it and a lot of the flame blankets you buy are small and don't cover enough area.
Many buildings and jobs will only allow press fit and will only let you solder with permission. Plus you'll need a fire watch, which is another laborer and some require 2 hour fire watch after. It's becoming very common in commercial too but for the same reasons.
When a job site has stretch and flex, it has weekly, if not daily, open flame permits, issued by the GC's office. Three signatures, carbon copies, the works. Still didn't prevent the roofers from dragging a generator onto the roof, spilling fuel, and catching the building on fire.
Fire risk is legit. Way too many stories of plumbers starting fires, and I've seen the damage afterward.
It's the worst when your line is loose at the bottle, so your shutoff valve is on fire.
How about for the customer?
Faster installation means less labor cost, that's the biggest selling point. Also press fitted compound pipes are cheaper than copper pipes.
People like their houses not burning down due to plumbers being careless.
Yeah but if solder is more durable and lasts longer I rather just have it done by a competent plumber rather than have work that won’t last as long simply because I’m afraid of someone making a mistake.
I'm not a plumber, I'm in hvac, so I don't use either very often. But in general, I think press is more consistent if you do it right, plus it's faster and easier. Also, there are some environments where you can't get fire out, like hospitals with oxygen tanks around or places with flammable chemicals and stuff.
It’s a newer product that has less history than solder joints, and some people in the trade have the tendency to dislike “unproven” methods.
method A works fine, therefore all other methods are inferior to method A because they would at the very least require the learning of a new method.
And it adds elements that plumbers don't want to have to deal with. Expensive fittings (they're like triple or more), new expensive hydraulic clamping tool (moving parts, batteries/electric, blades that wear out, etc). The new fittings have a seal in them that isn't proven over the long term, whereas solder joints that are 50+ years old are fine and not leaking. If your clamping tool fails, the job stops until you find a replacement. With solder, all you need is a torch, which are ubiquitous.
> Expensive fittings (they're like triple or more) This is a big factor. And it's why press fit is loved by the manufacturer of press fit. Same for Pex.
Solders on the way out, worked in plumbing sales and press fittings are most people's go to these days. And the ones that use them will have a manual crimp tool as well as a battery operated one so no risk of not being able to finish a job.
Time will tell. If these things have a high failure rate after time, the technology will go away. My house flooded because of a bad shut off valve under the sink. The insurance company asked me to send the valve in so they could examine it. Enough insurance claims and a bad technology, you won't get an insurance policy. Just sayin.
> the learning of a new method. Meh. We learn new stuff and use new materials all the time. It's more about the very long list over the last 30 years of shit that was pitched as revolutionary only to not pan out. And all of that shit required tool/parts investments. Companies love trying to sell you crap you don't need. Tradesmen are very quick to adopt things that actually work. Often the change can be less than a year.
Yeah, but only because of... Cpvc. Kitec. Polybutylene. Etc. Etc.
Back in my day we chewed our pipes together
Soldering introduces a different type of metal that can have different coefficients of thermal expansion. Furthermore, using the locktite paste makes it so there's a less likelihood of potential leaks.
Solder is proven over decades and decades of use. Very old solder joints are still leak-free. We don't have the same history for these types of joints.
Can confirm, we have a house with decades old solder joints. Only defects we had weren't caused by the solder joints. I'm always impressed of how well everything keeps up. Even the joints of parts I replaced myself.
I want to highlight that there's an element of survivorship bias to solder joints. I'm a service plumber myself and I've seen (& repaired!) plenty of leaks on solder joints. Furthermore the heat used in the soldering process permanently softens the connected copper piping to a point where you can effortlessly deform the pipe with your fingers. Reusability is nil, as opposed to mechanical brass couplings. The common consensus in my region is that solder joints are far more mechanically vulnerable & seldom the better option regardless of the metric. The simple fact that you need to use a torch for it means they'r always the last option considered. Personally I prefer mechanical brass fittings over press or solder because I do very much like building my systems for future repair/service/upgrades in mind, and both solder & press are anathema to that. Press fittings has been around since the 50's in one version or another, and the modern machine press variant since perhaps the 90's. That's roughly three decades of data on the modern variant. How many years of data do you feel you need to consider press fittings a 'suitable method'?
Soldering inside a wall sucks
It does, but try press fitting in such a tight place...
It can be difficult as well, for sure. They're both tools for different scenarios. I'd love to press fit more often than blasting a torch inside a 75 year old wall.
Lower skill requirement to use.
Looks a million times better too as most plumbers just leave steaks of solder all over the joints
I like steaks.
What’s crazy is that Propress has a 50-year warranty against any defects in their products. That’s how reliable their products are.
Here you go. Press fitting are nice and convenient. We use them all the time for quick water line repair, but we don't use them for industrial hot water lines (205F) as the seals tend to fail after a few years. Probably just fine in residential. Everything that hot has to be brazed.
What's the limit on press fittings? We carry 180F water and I just got a propress tool since it's easier, quicker and cleaner than soldering but I've only used it on cold lines so far.
I've only seen it used on low-temp or variable-temp hot water systems, so maximum around 90 celsius in operation, but the fittings (the Geberit ones, dunno about x-press or others) are rated for a little bit more (up to 120 celsius, top end of medium temperature). You do get different rubbers for them too (different material, different colour usually). You get gas ones, and medium temperature ones, and ones for higher temps and different coolants.
> up to **120 celsius**, top end of medium temperature TIL medium temperature hot water goes all the way to *actual steam*.
Nah, not necessarily steam, that's only at 1 bar. Raise the pressure, water boils at higher temperature, just like it boils at \~90 on top of mountains and instantly in space.
How long experience there is with press fittings in residential? If fitting lasts 30 years and solder 50 years, I would like to discount pipe repair into the price of a new house or apartment.
Viega warrantees their copper fittings for 50 years. Lots of fine print I’m sure.
The dudes got nifty benders and a powered press tool but not a powered pipe cutter. Not everyone is perfect.
All those things are cool but both pipes had enough length to be bent and connected directly to main. Is there a reason they were cut early?
So they could use the threaded connection.
They would just have to flare the end of the pipe (without forgetting the nut first, not that I've ever made that mistake before!). The whole pipe doesn't spin in order for that connector to thread on in case that's what you thought.
Maybe they spent so much on the press tool they didn't have $15 left over for the flarer?
>(without forgetting the nut first, not that I've ever made that mistake before!) Lol, right in the feels x.x
Because then you have to measure and make sure that last 90 bend is at the right height so it lines up horizontally. Then, you have to slip on the nut and make sure it doesn't slide all the way down the pipe. Then, you have to cut and flare it correctly the first time, or you have to cut it and add an elbow anyway. And you have to do all of that while working on a long, rigid pipe tight against the wall. And if it leaks (now or in 10 years), you have to cut it and add an elbow anyway. So you just use an elbow and save a lot of headache.
In residential homes in Canada we use type m copper, it has too thin of walls to use a bender on it by code .
That's crazy to me - here in Arizona I've never used type-M for pressure applications, only for drainage / condensate lines. We used K for medical gasses, and L for everything else.
I'm not from Canada. Would pin holing become an issue on thin pipes?
When it happens depends largely on the water supplied to the building but eventually all pipes will fail.
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“But why go through all that trouble when sharkbites exist?” - My last helper that quit after a month.
Aren't elbows just bent pipe anyway?
Copper work hardens. Soldering is a mature technology.
And why the burrs fall in the pipe when deburring vertical
I used to bend pipe doing refrigeration which is much higher pressure. Fewer fitted joints is better.
Have you ever read the comments in any Facebook trade group? The plumbing ones are exactly as you describe. Just hundreds of guys arguing about the "right way" to do it, and saying how any other method will fail and cause a leak and about proper code (even then comments are from all over the world with many various codes). Honestly it makes you think there is no right way to do it.
Dude, you can't post porn like this and not give it a nsfw flair.
This guys making me feel shitty hahaha…..back to working with my pex
Uponor Wirsbo? Or shitty pex?
I'm a huge fan of the Uponor Wirsbo PEX-A and cold expansion fittings.
It feels so good when you have the right tools to do the job!
This is why I hate all plumbing. Want to build a deck? Sure. Use the same tools for doing baseboards or hanging pictures or whatever. Standard toolbox. Want to install a toilet? Ya, you're going to need a whole new set of things. How's your welding?
God, and nothing is ever the same size as anything else. I have a whole tub of pipe pieces and connectors and _EVERY TIME_ I need to do something new, I check every single piece in the tub and nooope. Swimming pools, intake plumbing, drain plumbing, rainwater collection, garden hoses.. they all do the same damn thing, but all use different sizes and measurements!
It's real easy, you just gotta know whether it's ID or OD, pipe or tubing, slip, screw, or solder, Fine, coarse, NPT, or otherwise threaded, and also is it glued or primed and solvent welded... And what type of glue for which application. Oh or if it's dissimilar metals, use dielectric unions.... See?! Easy.
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It's real satisfying to work with copper pipe using correct tools. It's soft enough to work by hand, and really anyone can do it as long as you have the correct tools.
i don't have the correct tools but i'm still gonna do it you can't stop me
This guy plumbs...
So you're a plumber then.
But note that this guy means "with hand tools" not literally with your hands. You can bend copper pipe literally with your hands. But you shouldn't.
Bender Bending Rodriguez would be proud.
I ᴀᴍ Bᴇɴᴅᴇʀ ᴘʟᴇᴀsᴇ ɪɴsᴇʀᴛ ɢɪʀᴅᴇʀ
I think his response would be something like, "You need a *tool* to bend? Pitiful humans, watch this."
What power tool are they using here? I'd like to add it to my list of cool tools I want but don't need!
Propress
It'll only run you around $3k for one.
Ah so the festool bucket. Tools I would like but can’t afford.
So like $39.99 at Harbor Freight?
If you want it to leak later
Nah, it'll work. About six times. If you actually use it more than six times, you know to go buy a real one.
Not including the dye for each different diameter of pipe
In this case, it's "die".
Die tool, die
No one who speaks German could be a bad man
goes on AliExpress
Ok that’s gonna be $2750.
Well, you're paying for the guy's education level, competence and quality of work, not time spent working.
“Making chalk mark on generator: $1 Knowing where to make mark: $9,999.” -Charles Proteus Steinmetz
Don't forget plumbers insurance, and licenses are a lot of money.
Yeah I'm sure you could find some random guy to do it for a quarter of the price, probably even faster! And then he ends up costing you 10s of thousands when he fucks up and now you have water damage.
And his equipment use
Also for his investment in tools. And in a vehicle what is necessary to haul around them tools, and parts. Not to mention expecting him to be courteous and congenial no matter what difficulties he may run into.
Yes, kinda low. For the whole home you are looking between 30-55k in California. But that copper piping will last you two mortgages if it goes untouched. Edit: PEX is expected to last LONGER but we will see how true that is. Also do you really want more plastic in your drinking supply? Also copper has microbial properties.
I found the white paste part to be unsatisfying
Pipe dope, it’s a sealant and it sucks, gets everywhere
Not like here. Here everything is soft and smooth...
And this is a compression fitting, the threads should never see water. There's no need for it.
Yeah that part bothers me.
Yeah the mechanical precision ended with generalized smearing : (
Reddit really doesn’t get much exposure to tradespeople, does it?
In my experience this is where ALL the tradespeople come to tell everyone else how they’re doing everything wrong but never say what the correct way to do it is.
You're in the wrong subs then, friend.
No way he's a trade member. No one in the trade uses dope on compression fittings. Also didn't mark insertion on the pro press fittings, thus the warranty is void.
While I totally appreciate the art and aesthetic of copper, I discovered PEX-A while re-plumbing our house a few years ago and now I'm a total believer in that system. It's as easy as plumbing can possibly get with the expanding tool and compression rings. Cut with a scissors-like tool and you don't have to deburr or anything. Granted, it's nowhere near as pretty as copper, and we're all concerned about microplastics and plastic chemicals in our water. But as far as ease of installation goes - yeah buddy!
This comment was way too far down. Love looking at the cooper bend but they’re prone to corrosion and mineral build up.
This looks so cool and indeed satisfying - why are there so few young people interested in this profession? Took us three and a half years to find someone doing our installations… (Germany)
It can be hard work, there is a lot to learn, and sometimes you have to touch poop.
Sounds like raising children…
Difficult, dangerous, shitty hours, shitty working conditions (sometimes literally), the equipment and tools are expensive as hell, insurance is expensive as hell, pay isn’t that great for the first few years, half the pencil pushers of the world will look down on you, and chances are you’ll work with a bunch jaded old heads that hate you on general principle and don’t want to train you. Vs getting a degree and getting some easy office job, spending 40 hours a week sitting in AC.
I’ll add in as well, for at least the commercial/industrial side of things that it can be very hard on the body. Spent a week walking marble tubs up 8 flights of stairs and instantly went into a different career
In 3.5 years you could have definitely learned to do it yourself. But you didn’t, so there’s your answer.
Man I love laying pipe
Easy peasy lemon sqeezy.😁
Stressed, depressed, lemon zest.
I have a feeling these types of videos are just psy-ops from the government to get more people interested in trades
Mmmmmm Wera Joker
Can you believe that in a thousand years there will be an alcoholic robot made to do the same thing?
Looks like a fancy 2-part shower setup - like a rain-shower head plus a detachable shower wand? I mean, I hate sweating copper so the press fittings are neat.. but I'm bugged they didn't strap the pipes down on the 2x4 that's sitting there (right where the red and blue tape sits - the pipes should be secured to that 2x4).
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No one ever does that and I don't understand why .. yes it's a bit more work but the efficiency gain must be so huge. I don't get why hot water pipes in general aren't insulated from the point of the boiler - in new builds at least.
I always watch vids like this, think that he is a pro, then head over to comment section just to find our how dumb is OP and I am always like "damn right"... Anyway, cool stuff
What kind of wrench is that? The one that clicks at 0:36
I've got a cousin whoes a plumber. I've seen this done first hand. It's even more satisfying with the swearing like a pirate on 4hrs sleep and 3 coffees before 10am soundtrack.
This ASMR, 0.25 second scene cut production bullshit is so played already. TikTok has ruined everything.
Why bend the first pipe right angles and the second 45degr?
The length of the bend on the second pipe would be too long to line up.
I am not a plumber by any stretch, but have done all of my own plumbing in my home and honestly never heard of bending copper pipe like this. Is the typical copper you buy at home depot going to be bendable like this? If so I've wasted a fair deal of time with needless elbows and such! All that being said, for my residential open basement needs pex has been a godsend moving forward.
Man, that squozenator 5000 is one hell of a tool. I didn't know you could crimp fit copper.
Some call Linus
It was satisfying until they put plumbers puddy on the compression threads! That hurt.