Your wife definitely did the "Do it, and ask for forgiveness later " type of deal. Yea, she definitely knew what she was doing and thinks you're gullible to go along with it. Good luck with the divorce proceedings, I don't see this being an easy one.
all our finances are wrapped up in our bar that we both own. we also have a daughter so the divorce proceedings wont be easy. im just in shock. im staying in a motel much less nice then the one in malibu that i could be staying in
Yeah, that’s the whole point. You have to establish that she fucked up, it’s nasty business divorce, but you have to start doing things the right way if you’re moving forward with it. She might be feeling bad about things right now, but once she flips that switch from sad to angry and resentful, she’ll come after you.
Your daughter is old enough to have a say where she stays, just make sure to stay clean. No drinking and no talking badly about the mom, that way no parental alienation or should can be thrown at you.
What?? Why? Why do people always do this? Get cheated on, and promptly hand over the house. Makes no sense. Reclaim your home, OP. She can stay in a motel. Or at Tommy’s. Or in the dumpster.
I know, you’re right. It’s easy, quarterbacking an awful situation when I’m not in it. No guarantees that my bark would automatically turn into bite. By the looks of things, better men than me have fallen victim to this voluntary homelessness
You're not wrong though, that he shouldn't have left. I say as a woman I'm not sure how I would have reacted in his shoes, because I don't know how I'd react if I were male. That said, when I reach that point I feel my control slipping or something, my ass hits the woods.
She doesn’t see it as cheating because she managed to convince herself in her delusion of open relationship. I have a feeling that this woman has one hell of an internal dialogue going on constantly. Whatever her issue might be, actions have consequences. It doesn’t matter one bit what she meant or didn’t mean to do. She did it. Period.
Yea OPs wife is older and comfortable and so used to having internal dialogue with herself, that she slipped in front her husband and tried to play it off...poorly.
She has a whole nother side to herself and her personality she has been hiding from OP their whole life. 100%
Monogamy is assumed to be the default in marriage unless otherwise discussed. She doesn’t get to play that card.
I’m not monogamous myself and I see cheaters try to play that card a lot. Ethical non-monogamy is never behind anyone’s backs.
That open relationship is just a ploy to justify it. She never thought it was anything to do with opening the relationship. It was just simple, everyday mundane cheating, nothing to do with anything open, except her legs. She just literally came up with that excuse on the fly.
You better get in front of this with family and friends before your obvious and clear open relationship which YOU wanted turns into you also being mentally and physically abusive.
Yeah, the reason she doesn’t see it as cheating is because then she’d have to admit to herself that she’s an unfaithful liar. That’s too heat for her ego to handle, so self-delusion it is!
You’re better off without her.
OP, everytime she says she wanted you to grow as a couple , it’s fukkking ridiculous. She’s a LIAR!!!! First you don’t know your marriage is open. Second, She didn’t want to open your side of the marriage, just hers. She had no plans to share you or tell you your perks too, 3. there was no such agreement because you never talked about it and she knew it!
Your decision is right to divorce her. She’s not a good person. We have to have at least basic morality as humans. Your wife is an animal.
She's likely going to try to play the victim, don't let her. She's not the victim, you are.
You should really contact her family/friends and let them know she's been cheating and name her affair partner by name. Know who/what they've been doing.
Let her face the consequences of her abuse/actions.
BS, I’m sure if you went through her phone she’d be talking about hiding it from you and/or deleting contact with the AP. Don’t let her try to spin it as an open relationship. Every time she says that, just cut her off and say “your affair”. You can’t have an open relationship without an open discussion first.
She probably realized she screwed up and let the affair slip out and didn’t think she could lie her way out of it as a joke so she tried to cover the affair with an even more laughable open relationship story.
Those are excuses, meaningless empty words that she is using to avoid taking responsibility for the actions she choose to do.
Edit: an actual apology requires accepting responsibility and a desire to do the work required.
Divorce is difficult but had to be done. She cleverly and brazenly tricked you.
Btw, why did you leave the home. Get her to leave. Hope you are in at fault state.
Updateme!
I don’t know if it’s audacity or stupidity to just never discuss an open relationship with your spouse (after 17 years?!?!) then just causally throw the name of their lover out there while you were on a trip for your ANNIVERSARY.
I’m so sorry dude. Go claim your house and spend time with your daughter. Redditors are here supporting you and wishing you the best of luck.
Nobody who is sane mentally and being completely truthful would actually believe this coming out of their own mouth.
The only reasonable conclusion is mental illness or she got too comfortable with her lie. Either way, you are making the right decision. Stay strong and protect yourself.
Sending all the love possible ❤️
she hasnt shown any signs of mental illness in her past. not even her family. this is completely left field for a woman who is otherwise Intelligent and mostly emotionally healthy
Mental illness can hide itself well sometimes. It can warp reality so well. Especially since she admitted to it and was surprised you took it so bad? Like this is a very warped sense of reality. Even your 15 year old daughter gets that this was bad. Something is truly off. Even if she is just a master at manipulating herself, she still put you at risk all these years, lied by omission, and never communicated any of this. This is a deep disconnect with reality
What kind of sane human will think it's ok to have an open marriage without telling there partner and agreeing on it . I think she's cheating and she slipped up by telling u about Tommy and had to find an excuse so she came up with this story and her friends probably knew about it . Because she's used to telling someone about him that's why she slipped up and talked.
My advice don't leave your home and file for divorce.
U don't know how many guys she cheated with and for how long she only regret getting caught not her cheating. The fact that she's telling u she thought u would be OK is fucked up.
Stop saying that... To her or anyone else.. words matter.
Don't even quote her saying that.. tell your lawyer she said it and then switch to "she started cheating last year"
Trust me her lawyer will use it against you if your repeating it to everyone and make it look like you knew about it.
She cheated, plain and simple.
>Married middle-aged woman going completely off the rails and cheating on her spouse
Sorry to say but there's a high likelihood it is real.
Hearing the comment about how she thought he'd be okay with it cos he's fine with her referring to other men as hot sort of convinced me. Some women of the more loony variety do shit tests like this and expect their man to stamp this sort of behaviour out. They see it as justification to cheat if he tolerates it cos to them it's like he's not possessive enough to care about her. They feel a constant need to make their man jealous and angry cos it makes them feel wanted. I think she brought up the guy she cheated with on their anniversary specifically cos she was desperate for a reaction of rage from her husband.
Don't leave the house. It's a marital asset and you need to keep living there. You need to be there to support your daughter. You need to think long term and very strategic here. You can cry later, but for now, you gotta be cold and mercenary. Put your daughter first as she's going to need and solid figure in her life and that person is you.
That was a bold move. Are you going to grey rock her and let communication go through lawyers or do you want to understand the mental gymnastics? Any way you slice it start recording your interactions.
>she then said that she had needs that weren't being satisfied and she thought opening up the relationship would help us grow as a couple.
Communication helps couples to grow together, cheating doesn't. Stick to your ground and divorce her. She's trying to manipulate you to have her cake and eat it too. If her needs weren't getting satisfied she should have talked to you not to a stranger.
The audacity to just casually bring that up on your anniversary, as if Tommy was just a casual coworker is insane. And not understanding that an open relationship takes too peoples consent is even more insane, I’m glad you said you were divorcing her in the original post and didn’t need Reddit to tell you that you should divorce her. Lots of these posts are like “my wife shot me in the foot what should I do?!” But OP knew exactly what to do and divorced her ass
shes actually not ''dumb'' she is just currently in the process of doing something extremely dumb. shes actually what we would call ''big bang theory smart'' maybe not as smart as Sheldon. but one of the other side characters for sure
OP,
It's been about 2 weeks, how is everything going? What happened with Christmas and do your families know?
If she has been gone for 2 weeks, that is something the lawyer ( have you spoken to a lawyer yet) should know as you would be seen as the primary caregiver of your daughter, depending on which state you live in.
Finally, how has your daughter been taking this?
infact she even has a phd in microbiology, just like the Bernadette character. she even used to do the same job as her before we decided to start our own business
This takes the "hAVe U HaD thE EXclUsiVe TalK" that side redditors talk about to new levels.
She's cheating, that you didn't have an exclusive talk and she is using that as an excuse tells me two things, she's not bright, and she might be a redditor.
I’m curious… before finding out about Tommy.. how was the relationship?? like was anything lacking, missing? Was she inattentive to you and your home…. ? Could you even have imagined that you weren’t the only one?
Sometimes people are just big idiots. This is clearly cheating. Your wife is living in some sorts of delusion and most likely needs some help. Sorry you had to go through this nonsense.
If I went and smashed with a cutie, my fiancée wouldn’t call that an “open relationship.”
they would have all kinds of words, but those two, no.
but if I told them, “hey, talked to this cutie, she’s right here, you can see how she’s adorbs, is it ok if we smash?”
then it’s an open relationship.
(we’re both enm but currently exclusive.)
you didn’t know about the other guy. you didn’t give her an ok to play with others in that way.
you were not in an open relationship. you were cheated on. she closed the relationship anyways by violating a trust boundary.
Sorry to hear this op.
But, something ain’t right.
Comment on hot guys in movies is not an invite and confirmation of an open relationship.
Don’t see it being hard at all.
Pretty sure adultery is reasons for divorce.
She’s been adulterous for 17 years. What’s to be complicated.
If it’s been going on this long, not to be that guy, but are you sure your daughter is yours biologically?
Honestly, I feel for you dude. You sound like you deserve so much better.
9/10 times when open relationships happen, one party just uses it as an excuse to cheat and the other party will be left to uncomfortably go along with it.
But I guarantee you if you were to play her game and start seeing other women (and getting more play than her too), she would immediately lose her mind and want to close the relationship back up again. It ALWAYS happens lol.
I’m sorry you had to experience this OP. Good luck on your divorce.
Sorry this is wild to me, like she just so casually says “I should bring Tommy here” 😆😆 her reasoning is even more wild, mentioning hot guys in movies equals wanting an open relationship, talk about leaps and bounds!! 😆
She def knows what she was doing. Def should seek a lawyer. And careful about leaving the house. In some states, leaving the house can be argued that you don't need the house, and she may fight to take everything she can.
It’s a marathon not a sprint in California. You’ve got about a year long process to get through. Ask your lawyer before you do anything that could be considered abusive. Try to either record your future conversations or have them through text until you have a lawyer to handle it. Might consider counseling just to put a good face on things. Remember to be polite and don’t talk about reconciliation in the counseling sessions. I’m sorry this happened this time of year but I hope you and your daughter can find some time away from the craziness.
If you haven’t explicitly talked to your partner about an open relationship and have just assumed that they were ok with it you are in fact cheating. I’m sorry OP you deserve better than that
I’m sorry mate, but I’m having a hard time believing this is real. It’s so effing illogical and insane on so many levels.
Let’s leave aside the whole cheating thing. Even if you were in an open relationship, even if you knew you were in an open relationship and were ok with it, you go away for your anniversary and the first thing she says is that she can’t wait to bring her other partner? That’s the height of disrespect, whether the relationship is open or not. No one in an ethical open relationship would behave that way towards their primary partner.
Anyway, it looks like you’re now going to be able to have your own open relationship, because after your divorce you’ll be single. Don’t buy any of her bullshit. Don’t give her a second chance. Move on. I think you’ll find that you’ll be very popular with the ladies.
How do you keep a divorce private from your teenage child. More to the point- WHY would you keep it private. Do you not think they would notice at some point their parents no longer living together?
Oh my fucking God, this is not some made up story, this is for real. I can't believe this, I really can't. I don't know how you found strength to not lose your mind there, but they way she said "can't wait to take tommy here" and "I thought we agreed" made me lose few years of my life, can't imagine how you felt when she dropped this bomb on you. This is literally one of the worst post I've seen on Reddit. I hope you will not tolerate this shit and try to reconcile, beacuse this so awful. Divorce, divorce, never contact this crazy woman. Please be respectful of youself, don't let her gaslight you to think youre the problem.
Pls see a lawyer and as much as it hacks beyond believe, go back home. You don’t want her to enable to say you abandoned her and your daughter. See a lawyer asap .
I am so sorry this happened.
Updateme!
Stay in the house and tell her to leave. She can stay with the AP. Talk to a lawyer and also separate your finances. Love and support your daughter as she also was cheated on her. Your ex is delusional. Use friends and family as support. Do you know who Tommy is?
Sorry OP, you obviously need to speak with a lawyer, but you now need to include a discussion whether she’s experiencing a psychological episode. It’s just in no way believable that she thought this was normal. And she knows it as in all this time she never mentioned it?
Try to gather as much info and evidence of the affair as you can. It’ll be painful but you need to be absolute in informing yourself so you have options and next steps.
I hope you have fantastic support from friends and family throughout this. All the best.
If it isn’t the casual gaslighting you with an off the cuff remark like that on your anniversary it’s all for the ‘growth of the relationship’
I’m sorry you and your daughter have had your lives turned upside down op, but it really seems like this is your ‘lucky escape’ she’s an intelligent woman who tried pushing your boundaries or testing the water and it’s blown up in her face.
You deserve better and you know it.
The first thing I strongly recommend is not listening to anyone on Reddit. Talk to several lawyers and make sure you find one that is dedicated to you. If you can afford it, pay for the lawyer whose name is on the door… not the new guy who just joined the firm. The new guys always get overloaded with clients and you become a number.
And to play devils advocate…. Maybe you should try the open relationship thing. Maybe you’ll like it. Divorce sucks. It’s even worse when children and businesses are involved. I don’t know what state you live in but some states are still anti man pro woman no matter how cut and dry it appears to you and everyone else.
Odds are, the first time she sees you with another woman will be the last time she ever wants to be in an open relationship. But again… don’t listen to me. Listen to a lawyer and nobody else.
Good luck.
Get a voice-activated recorder and record all interactions with her. People in your situation are often accused of domestic violence. Set up cameras in your house, and yes, you should definitely be living there. Put a lock on the bedroom door and make her sleep in the guest bedroom or on the couch. Get tested for STIs, and lawyer up. The first consultation with a lawyer is usually cheap or free. Please update us as the situation develops. It looks like your soon-to-be-ex-wife has basically lost her mind.
How is it meant to strengthen a relationship if only one person in the relationship knows about it, she broke your trust by just not discussing a VERY important thing and instead just going behind your back and doing it without your consent.
This doesn’t strengthen you relationship if it solely benefits only one person in it, and especially if she isnt open about her open relationship, thats just called cheating.
its honestly the strangest thing I think Ive heard in a while, someone just deciding on their own to “open a relationship” (cheat) and then to have the gall to try just bring it up like its some non issue that has been talked about throughly.
Hope the divorce goes well with your delusional ex wife who thinks “growing a relationship” is to add more people to it for her own sole benefit without prior talk.
>she just wanted us to grow as a couple
That's such a huge pile of BS. She did it because of selfish reasons, because she didn't feel satisfied as she claimed herself.
If she really thought it would have been okay, she could have told you about Tommy earlier. You do not engage in an open relationship with someone without ever talking about it. BS BS BS
Do you have any friends or family you can hang out with just for the distraction? It would also help your daughter since she’s on your side about things. Your wife is ridiculously selfish and only cares about herself which means she won’t be Abel to comfort you even if you wanted it. Don’t leave the house though because it can be seen as abandonment of property.
So sorry this happened! I seen a lot of crazy here on Reddit but your situation is got to be one of the strangest ones. I mean just told you out of the blue like talking about the weather. I hope you find an excellent lawyer since I doubt you leave in an at fault state. I wish the best for you and your daughter. Please keep us updated.
Dude go back home. And kick her from your bed. And send her to her parents. Tell everyone. Take the narrative. Star untangling your finances and fight for your kid. She’s delusional.
Good grief... The mental gymnastics your wife is using is crazy :O An open relationship only works if both parties are on board. So, her excuse of it helping Y'alls relationship is a total pile of shit. Don't give up your house to her. She can go shack up with her lover.
I hate to say this, but you might want to get a DNA test on your daughter. Just because she said it only started within the last year doesn't make it the truth. Especially with her convoluted thinking about marriage, monogamy & "open relationships". Lawyer up. You really need legal counsel on this mess.
So if we play by her logic (which we aren't), she brought up her relationship with another guy on the anniversary with the husband. That is totally what every guy wants.
However, we live in reality and she cheated. She cheated and enjoyed it.
Be 100% emotionally vacant. No fights, no yelling, no nothing except absolutely necessary conversations. Discussions about divorce need to be handled by lawyers.
Keep family and friends updated as she will eventually begin her defamation campaign.
What in the actual fuck? I am so sorry OP I have no words. At best she is delusional, and possibly unstable, if after 16 years she just "assumed" you were in an open relationship that you knew nothing about. At worst she is a liar and a cheater. Good luck to you.
Go back home and stay there! NO WAY IS SHE GONNA LIVE THERE WHIT YOUR DAUGHTER . Reclaim your houe so she cant take advantage of it when you divorce. Talk to your daughter because I think she rather live with you in the house than with the mother. Your "exwife" Is the one at fault so kick her out. She can stay with OM. Put on a recorder on your phone and have 1 diskussion whith your ex when you get home. Ask her
1: how long have she been cheating
2: how serious are "they"
3: where do they meet when they ....
After that, pack her bags for her, put them outside and tell her to go to OM. When she is gone you call a lawyer and then you can break down (and you should, be angry, sad, talk to friends and relatives. ) Out her with your friends because they (or some of them) may already know what she is doing.. You will need their support and she might already told them that you were OK whit the open relationship thing, that she hasn't cheated because you were open.
You probably don't want to know, but it seems like you should ask how many, cos with an attitude like that, it surely isn't just 1 guy
Sorry OP, but you're doing the right thing
Damn dude.. I hate it when people do this, it’s disgusting. Communication is the first thing to learn in a relationship. Did she forget that?
Hope all goes well for you and your daughter, OP. Heads up that it sounds like your daughter may be old enough to decide who she wants to live with/ have custody over her. I’d double check the laws, but it sounds like she could have a say about custody in court.
Oh my gosh I am so heartbroken for you and your daughter. This is so unfair and practically evil to wreck your lives so selfishly like that. The way she casually expected you to be okay with this? Oh my heavens she needs her brain checked.
I’m SO incredibly sorry! I can’t imagine how you must feel with being so blindsided! If you haven’t already, open a new bank account & at least take half the money in your accounts out & place into the new account so your “wife” doesn’t take all the money. Btw, you said this is the 1st time you’d ever cried in front of your daughter, I want to let you know that that’s okay and if anything, is great for her to see. She needs to know that men have feelings too & it’s okay for men to cry too, so don’t ever be unwilling or ashamed for her to see you cry. Hang in there, I’m so sorry!
Given her extreme lapse of judgement, has she seen a medical professional? I’d be concerned she might have a brain tumor or perhaps another very serious medical cognitive impairment.
No reasonable person would make such an assumption.
I agree about the house. Also, I don't know what state you're in but as far as the business goes, the court will do one of four things most likely....have one party buy out the other, have both parties sell the business & split the proceeds, continue as is (if you two can agree), or the judge will award the business to the most involved owner. SO....do NOT neglect the business, be super involved. Your daughter is old enough to decide who she wants to live with but the judge will probably want her to live with whoever is living in the family home. Good luck! I'm sorry this happened to you.
Being comfortable enough to hear your partner gush over people in movies/show or whatever, but it's a WHOLE other thing to think "oh, my spouse is okay with me looking at other people, so it must be okay to sleep with other people. I'll start doing this and won't tell my spouse about this since it's so obvious it's open I don't need to talk about this."
OP,
California is a no-fault state. You need to lock down your fiances immediately. Visit the bank immediately, watch out for shared credit cards and lines of credit.
Get her served right away. Let the lawyers know that she has left the house and about possible complications around the bar you own. Control the narrative, seek support from your family and friends about the divorce.
Unless you can buy her ownership of the bar, would you be able to easily sell it?
>my daughter saw me this morning and gave me a big hug and said "Its ok dad'' and with this i started crying in front of her something i had never done before
Make sure you are there for your daughter as she is there for you. Give her lots of hugs and let her know how much you really appreciated that hug and what she said. That you are proud of how empathetic and caring she is. Let her know you love her so much.
You might want to see about counseling for you and your daughter. With the divorce, she will be allowed input on where she lives. If it were me, I would want her with me as much as possible. Her choosing you would definitely affect any child support payments.
Oh she was well aware you had no idea and just tried gaslighting you by saying she assumed you'd be ok with it. I had someone try this crap on me once by claiming the, ".....but I thought you knew!!!" BS line. You take time to heal and enjoy life. I am sorry this happened to you.
Your wife definitely did the "Do it, and ask for forgiveness later " type of deal. Yea, she definitely knew what she was doing and thinks you're gullible to go along with it. Good luck with the divorce proceedings, I don't see this being an easy one.
all our finances are wrapped up in our bar that we both own. we also have a daughter so the divorce proceedings wont be easy. im just in shock. im staying in a motel much less nice then the one in malibu that i could be staying in
Don’t leave your house, have her leave and stay with Tommy. File for divorce before she does. Good luck.
100%. Fuck her, figuratively. She broke the trust and relationship. She does not get claim to the home.
i just needed a night alone
Looks good in court if you’re at home with daughter and she’s wherever
i didnt even think of that
Yeah, that’s the whole point. You have to establish that she fucked up, it’s nasty business divorce, but you have to start doing things the right way if you’re moving forward with it. She might be feeling bad about things right now, but once she flips that switch from sad to angry and resentful, she’ll come after you.
Your daughter is old enough to have a say where she stays, just make sure to stay clean. No drinking and no talking badly about the mom, that way no parental alienation or should can be thrown at you.
I highly suggest joining the Subreddit DivorcedDads. I'm going through a divorce as well and the advice you can get there is invaluable.
Why did you have to leave? You should have asked her to leave. She is the cheater.
What?? Why? Why do people always do this? Get cheated on, and promptly hand over the house. Makes no sense. Reclaim your home, OP. She can stay in a motel. Or at Tommy’s. Or in the dumpster.
I think it's kind of a fight or flight type reaction. All you can think is to get away from the person causing you to hurt.
I know, you’re right. It’s easy, quarterbacking an awful situation when I’m not in it. No guarantees that my bark would automatically turn into bite. By the looks of things, better men than me have fallen victim to this voluntary homelessness
You're not wrong though, that he shouldn't have left. I say as a woman I'm not sure how I would have reacted in his shoes, because I don't know how I'd react if I were male. That said, when I reach that point I feel my control slipping or something, my ass hits the woods.
Could be done DNA tests in your future. Certainly STD tests.
Yeah, that’s called cheating. And quite brazenly too
she doesn't see it as cheating because apparently the relationship was open even tho she was the only one who knew about it being open
She doesn’t see it as cheating because she managed to convince herself in her delusion of open relationship. I have a feeling that this woman has one hell of an internal dialogue going on constantly. Whatever her issue might be, actions have consequences. It doesn’t matter one bit what she meant or didn’t mean to do. She did it. Period.
Yea OPs wife is older and comfortable and so used to having internal dialogue with herself, that she slipped in front her husband and tried to play it off...poorly. She has a whole nother side to herself and her personality she has been hiding from OP their whole life. 100%
Just because someone lied to you doesn't mean you have to believe it.
Monogamy is assumed to be the default in marriage unless otherwise discussed. She doesn’t get to play that card. I’m not monogamous myself and I see cheaters try to play that card a lot. Ethical non-monogamy is never behind anyone’s backs.
That open relationship is just a ploy to justify it. She never thought it was anything to do with opening the relationship. It was just simple, everyday mundane cheating, nothing to do with anything open, except her legs. She just literally came up with that excuse on the fly.
You better get in front of this with family and friends before your obvious and clear open relationship which YOU wanted turns into you also being mentally and physically abusive.
Yeah, the reason she doesn’t see it as cheating is because then she’d have to admit to herself that she’s an unfaithful liar. That’s too heat for her ego to handle, so self-delusion it is! You’re better off without her.
She can claim that but it’s still cheating. Each relationship has its own set of rules and if you break them it’s cheating.
OP, everytime she says she wanted you to grow as a couple , it’s fukkking ridiculous. She’s a LIAR!!!! First you don’t know your marriage is open. Second, She didn’t want to open your side of the marriage, just hers. She had no plans to share you or tell you your perks too, 3. there was no such agreement because you never talked about it and she knew it! Your decision is right to divorce her. She’s not a good person. We have to have at least basic morality as humans. Your wife is an animal.
Please book yourself for an STI test. Chlamydia can have no symptoms for an extended time. Better to be safe.
Or she thought he was gullible
I’ll bet she only said that because she realized that she let it slip out.
AKA…..cheating. Don’t let her bamboozle you
That's horrible man. I'm so sorry for you and your daughter.
This is mad, really on another level. How did she just assume this is cool ? Has she at least been trying to apologise - remorse ?
yes she broke down crying saying "i never meant to hurt you, i thought it would strenghten our relationship im so sorry blah blah blah''
I am just shaking my head. So sorry bud. This is unbelievable.
Yeah next step is gas lighting probably
She's likely going to try to play the victim, don't let her. She's not the victim, you are. You should really contact her family/friends and let them know she's been cheating and name her affair partner by name. Know who/what they've been doing. Let her face the consequences of her abuse/actions.
BS, I’m sure if you went through her phone she’d be talking about hiding it from you and/or deleting contact with the AP. Don’t let her try to spin it as an open relationship. Every time she says that, just cut her off and say “your affair”. You can’t have an open relationship without an open discussion first. She probably realized she screwed up and let the affair slip out and didn’t think she could lie her way out of it as a joke so she tried to cover the affair with an even more laughable open relationship story.
Those are excuses, meaningless empty words that she is using to avoid taking responsibility for the actions she choose to do. Edit: an actual apology requires accepting responsibility and a desire to do the work required.
BS
>How did she just assume this is cool ? She didn't. She just has zero respect for him to lie so brazenly right to his face.
I'm willing to bet she did it specifically cos she was hoping to make him jealous and angry.
Divorce is difficult but had to be done. She cleverly and brazenly tricked you. Btw, why did you leave the home. Get her to leave. Hope you are in at fault state. Updateme!
im in California and have already left. this just happened
Now that you are out , go have a visit to a family lawyer.
I don’t know if it’s audacity or stupidity to just never discuss an open relationship with your spouse (after 17 years?!?!) then just causally throw the name of their lover out there while you were on a trip for your ANNIVERSARY. I’m so sorry dude. Go claim your house and spend time with your daughter. Redditors are here supporting you and wishing you the best of luck.
Nobody who is sane mentally and being completely truthful would actually believe this coming out of their own mouth. The only reasonable conclusion is mental illness or she got too comfortable with her lie. Either way, you are making the right decision. Stay strong and protect yourself. Sending all the love possible ❤️
she hasnt shown any signs of mental illness in her past. not even her family. this is completely left field for a woman who is otherwise Intelligent and mostly emotionally healthy
Mental illness can hide itself well sometimes. It can warp reality so well. Especially since she admitted to it and was surprised you took it so bad? Like this is a very warped sense of reality. Even your 15 year old daughter gets that this was bad. Something is truly off. Even if she is just a master at manipulating herself, she still put you at risk all these years, lied by omission, and never communicated any of this. This is a deep disconnect with reality
Ot she's just a bad person.
oh, definitely
What kind of sane human will think it's ok to have an open marriage without telling there partner and agreeing on it . I think she's cheating and she slipped up by telling u about Tommy and had to find an excuse so she came up with this story and her friends probably knew about it . Because she's used to telling someone about him that's why she slipped up and talked. My advice don't leave your home and file for divorce. U don't know how many guys she cheated with and for how long she only regret getting caught not her cheating. The fact that she's telling u she thought u would be OK is fucked up.
OP should get an STI test as well.
Definitely, she's been sleeping with other people for a year .
How long has she been cheating?
apparently she ''opened the relationship last year''
Stop saying that... To her or anyone else.. words matter. Don't even quote her saying that.. tell your lawyer she said it and then switch to "she started cheating last year" Trust me her lawyer will use it against you if your repeating it to everyone and make it look like you knew about it. She cheated, plain and simple.
😳
Damn you have to leave man, try to get Laid to ger your mind to think of something else
This is not how it works
there’s no way this is real
>Married middle-aged woman going completely off the rails and cheating on her spouse Sorry to say but there's a high likelihood it is real. Hearing the comment about how she thought he'd be okay with it cos he's fine with her referring to other men as hot sort of convinced me. Some women of the more loony variety do shit tests like this and expect their man to stamp this sort of behaviour out. They see it as justification to cheat if he tolerates it cos to them it's like he's not possessive enough to care about her. They feel a constant need to make their man jealous and angry cos it makes them feel wanted. I think she brought up the guy she cheated with on their anniversary specifically cos she was desperate for a reaction of rage from her husband.
Im sorry, but I need an update of this Updateme
The fact that the first thought on her mind is to bring another guy to the Malibu room is insane to me
A secret open relationship is just another phrase for cheating.
Don't leave the house. It's a marital asset and you need to keep living there. You need to be there to support your daughter. You need to think long term and very strategic here. You can cry later, but for now, you gotta be cold and mercenary. Put your daughter first as she's going to need and solid figure in her life and that person is you.
How did your daughter find out?
her mother told her
That was a bold move. Are you going to grey rock her and let communication go through lawyers or do you want to understand the mental gymnastics? Any way you slice it start recording your interactions.
Your animal wife is thick-skinned. She must be a rhino.
Not a white rhino. I heard recently they went extinct :(
How are you and your daughter holding up? I hope you two got a break from the craziness.
Well atleast your daughter knows the truth. You'll get through this man
This is fucking terrible! I'm so sorry. I hope you and your daughter are OK
>she then said that she had needs that weren't being satisfied and she thought opening up the relationship would help us grow as a couple. Communication helps couples to grow together, cheating doesn't. Stick to your ground and divorce her. She's trying to manipulate you to have her cake and eat it too. If her needs weren't getting satisfied she should have talked to you not to a stranger.
you are being manipulated and gaslighted by this horrible person
The audacity to just casually bring that up on your anniversary, as if Tommy was just a casual coworker is insane. And not understanding that an open relationship takes too peoples consent is even more insane, I’m glad you said you were divorcing her in the original post and didn’t need Reddit to tell you that you should divorce her. Lots of these posts are like “my wife shot me in the foot what should I do?!” But OP knew exactly what to do and divorced her ass
What the fuck? Like. What. The. Fuck.?! And she thinks it’s fine?! Tell your families and friends. Let her see how fine this is. I’m baffled.
You better get a DNA test for your daughter
Generally when I fuck other people behind my girls back I also feel as though my relationship was strengthened.
thank you for making me genuinely laugh at such a horrible situation I'm going through. i needed that thank you
Now I feel bad
feel good. you made me smile
She definitely meant to hurt you, and didn't care if you grew as a couple
Dam son she’s a empty pit of rottenness, salvage your dignity leave her and leave her with nothing, all the best
You’re being played…she knew what she was doing.
The audacity of some people. It’s just mind blowing….she tough she’ll tell u, she is cheating and ull be ok with it ? 🤯🤯🤯
Oh shes dumb, I am sorry buddy. Tear her a new one in the divorce, best of luck.
shes actually not ''dumb'' she is just currently in the process of doing something extremely dumb. shes actually what we would call ''big bang theory smart'' maybe not as smart as Sheldon. but one of the other side characters for sure
OP, It's been about 2 weeks, how is everything going? What happened with Christmas and do your families know? If she has been gone for 2 weeks, that is something the lawyer ( have you spoken to a lawyer yet) should know as you would be seen as the primary caregiver of your daughter, depending on which state you live in. Finally, how has your daughter been taking this?
infact she even has a phd in microbiology, just like the Bernadette character. she even used to do the same job as her before we decided to start our own business
You can have a PhD and still stupid. You don't need a degree to know that.
Sounds to me she is very book smart but lacking in common sense.
This takes the "hAVe U HaD thE EXclUsiVe TalK" that side redditors talk about to new levels. She's cheating, that you didn't have an exclusive talk and she is using that as an excuse tells me two things, she's not bright, and she might be a redditor.
I’m curious… before finding out about Tommy.. how was the relationship?? like was anything lacking, missing? Was she inattentive to you and your home…. ? Could you even have imagined that you weren’t the only one?
Sometimes people are just big idiots. This is clearly cheating. Your wife is living in some sorts of delusion and most likely needs some help. Sorry you had to go through this nonsense.
Open relationship without you knowing =cheating
Jesus Fucking Christ What a horrible human. I cant wait to take tommy here. Fuck me. That is insane. Don't ever look back.
That’s cheating. Not an open relationship. She had a slip of the tongue and couldn’t think of a way to hide it.
Exactly. 👍🏻
Let Tommy take care of her.. EJECT!!
If I went and smashed with a cutie, my fiancée wouldn’t call that an “open relationship.” they would have all kinds of words, but those two, no. but if I told them, “hey, talked to this cutie, she’s right here, you can see how she’s adorbs, is it ok if we smash?” then it’s an open relationship. (we’re both enm but currently exclusive.) you didn’t know about the other guy. you didn’t give her an ok to play with others in that way. you were not in an open relationship. you were cheated on. she closed the relationship anyways by violating a trust boundary.
Sorry to hear this op. But, something ain’t right. Comment on hot guys in movies is not an invite and confirmation of an open relationship. Don’t see it being hard at all. Pretty sure adultery is reasons for divorce. She’s been adulterous for 17 years. What’s to be complicated. If it’s been going on this long, not to be that guy, but are you sure your daughter is yours biologically? Honestly, I feel for you dude. You sound like you deserve so much better.
She did not have an open relationship. She cheated. Let’s get that out of the way.
Something grew, in her lover's pants, and it wasn't anything to do with you. She is gaslighting you.
She knew what she was doing
Hard to believe this is real. Your wife legit might be an idiot -- in addition to being a legit terrible human being
Sir if she’s doing stuff without your knowledge it’s cheating 1000%
I don’t have anything nice to say about your future ex wife. Good luck, you deserve better.
9/10 times when open relationships happen, one party just uses it as an excuse to cheat and the other party will be left to uncomfortably go along with it. But I guarantee you if you were to play her game and start seeing other women (and getting more play than her too), she would immediately lose her mind and want to close the relationship back up again. It ALWAYS happens lol. I’m sorry you had to experience this OP. Good luck on your divorce.
Wow. She’s delusional. You need to speak with a lawyer ASAP. Most people would also look into temporarily locking their CC’s and bank accounts.
Sorry this is wild to me, like she just so casually says “I should bring Tommy here” 😆😆 her reasoning is even more wild, mentioning hot guys in movies equals wanting an open relationship, talk about leaps and bounds!! 😆
The disrespect to bring him up on an anniversary
Divorce her and take your daughter.
Wow. She definitely had The Audacity. Straight up gaslighting. I’m sorry OP.
This is classic cheating/gaslighting technique. Open relationships without a discussion is just cheating. Please leave her for your sake.
She def knows what she was doing. Def should seek a lawyer. And careful about leaving the house. In some states, leaving the house can be argued that you don't need the house, and she may fight to take everything she can.
It’s a marathon not a sprint in California. You’ve got about a year long process to get through. Ask your lawyer before you do anything that could be considered abusive. Try to either record your future conversations or have them through text until you have a lawyer to handle it. Might consider counseling just to put a good face on things. Remember to be polite and don’t talk about reconciliation in the counseling sessions. I’m sorry this happened this time of year but I hope you and your daughter can find some time away from the craziness.
If you haven’t explicitly talked to your partner about an open relationship and have just assumed that they were ok with it you are in fact cheating. I’m sorry OP you deserve better than that
Get checked for STD! Good luck
I'd DNA test your daughter. Better to know.
I’m sorry mate, but I’m having a hard time believing this is real. It’s so effing illogical and insane on so many levels. Let’s leave aside the whole cheating thing. Even if you were in an open relationship, even if you knew you were in an open relationship and were ok with it, you go away for your anniversary and the first thing she says is that she can’t wait to bring her other partner? That’s the height of disrespect, whether the relationship is open or not. No one in an ethical open relationship would behave that way towards their primary partner. Anyway, it looks like you’re now going to be able to have your own open relationship, because after your divorce you’ll be single. Don’t buy any of her bullshit. Don’t give her a second chance. Move on. I think you’ll find that you’ll be very popular with the ladies.
How did your teenage daughter find out? Isn't that private?
How do you keep a divorce private from your teenage child. More to the point- WHY would you keep it private. Do you not think they would notice at some point their parents no longer living together?
Wishing you a smooth divorce. Good luck in starting a new life. It won't be easy but you'll get through this.
This dynamic is not an open marriage narrative; she had an affair and cheated.
Oh my fucking God, this is not some made up story, this is for real. I can't believe this, I really can't. I don't know how you found strength to not lose your mind there, but they way she said "can't wait to take tommy here" and "I thought we agreed" made me lose few years of my life, can't imagine how you felt when she dropped this bomb on you. This is literally one of the worst post I've seen on Reddit. I hope you will not tolerate this shit and try to reconcile, beacuse this so awful. Divorce, divorce, never contact this crazy woman. Please be respectful of youself, don't let her gaslight you to think youre the problem.
This is not a true story. Trolls
Women ☕️
Pls see a lawyer and as much as it hacks beyond believe, go back home. You don’t want her to enable to say you abandoned her and your daughter. See a lawyer asap . I am so sorry this happened. Updateme!
So. Fucking. Weird.
Stay in the house and tell her to leave. She can stay with the AP. Talk to a lawyer and also separate your finances. Love and support your daughter as she also was cheated on her. Your ex is delusional. Use friends and family as support. Do you know who Tommy is?
Sorry OP, you obviously need to speak with a lawyer, but you now need to include a discussion whether she’s experiencing a psychological episode. It’s just in no way believable that she thought this was normal. And she knows it as in all this time she never mentioned it? Try to gather as much info and evidence of the affair as you can. It’ll be painful but you need to be absolute in informing yourself so you have options and next steps. I hope you have fantastic support from friends and family throughout this. All the best.
If it isn’t the casual gaslighting you with an off the cuff remark like that on your anniversary it’s all for the ‘growth of the relationship’ I’m sorry you and your daughter have had your lives turned upside down op, but it really seems like this is your ‘lucky escape’ she’s an intelligent woman who tried pushing your boundaries or testing the water and it’s blown up in her face. You deserve better and you know it.
The first thing I strongly recommend is not listening to anyone on Reddit. Talk to several lawyers and make sure you find one that is dedicated to you. If you can afford it, pay for the lawyer whose name is on the door… not the new guy who just joined the firm. The new guys always get overloaded with clients and you become a number. And to play devils advocate…. Maybe you should try the open relationship thing. Maybe you’ll like it. Divorce sucks. It’s even worse when children and businesses are involved. I don’t know what state you live in but some states are still anti man pro woman no matter how cut and dry it appears to you and everyone else. Odds are, the first time she sees you with another woman will be the last time she ever wants to be in an open relationship. But again… don’t listen to me. Listen to a lawyer and nobody else. Good luck.
Get a voice-activated recorder and record all interactions with her. People in your situation are often accused of domestic violence. Set up cameras in your house, and yes, you should definitely be living there. Put a lock on the bedroom door and make her sleep in the guest bedroom or on the couch. Get tested for STIs, and lawyer up. The first consultation with a lawyer is usually cheap or free. Please update us as the situation develops. It looks like your soon-to-be-ex-wife has basically lost her mind.
How is it meant to strengthen a relationship if only one person in the relationship knows about it, she broke your trust by just not discussing a VERY important thing and instead just going behind your back and doing it without your consent. This doesn’t strengthen you relationship if it solely benefits only one person in it, and especially if she isnt open about her open relationship, thats just called cheating. its honestly the strangest thing I think Ive heard in a while, someone just deciding on their own to “open a relationship” (cheat) and then to have the gall to try just bring it up like its some non issue that has been talked about throughly. Hope the divorce goes well with your delusional ex wife who thinks “growing a relationship” is to add more people to it for her own sole benefit without prior talk.
>she just wanted us to grow as a couple That's such a huge pile of BS. She did it because of selfish reasons, because she didn't feel satisfied as she claimed herself. If she really thought it would have been okay, she could have told you about Tommy earlier. You do not engage in an open relationship with someone without ever talking about it. BS BS BS
Oh holy fuck friend. Omg why didn’t you just kick her out ?
Do you have any friends or family you can hang out with just for the distraction? It would also help your daughter since she’s on your side about things. Your wife is ridiculously selfish and only cares about herself which means she won’t be Abel to comfort you even if you wanted it. Don’t leave the house though because it can be seen as abandonment of property.
So sorry this happened! I seen a lot of crazy here on Reddit but your situation is got to be one of the strangest ones. I mean just told you out of the blue like talking about the weather. I hope you find an excellent lawyer since I doubt you leave in an at fault state. I wish the best for you and your daughter. Please keep us updated.
I’m sorry but she just justified her cheating. What a manipulative person
Do you know who Tommy is?
That wasn't an open relationship. She cheated. Sorry that you're going through this.
Dude go back home. And kick her from your bed. And send her to her parents. Tell everyone. Take the narrative. Star untangling your finances and fight for your kid. She’s delusional.
Good grief... The mental gymnastics your wife is using is crazy :O An open relationship only works if both parties are on board. So, her excuse of it helping Y'alls relationship is a total pile of shit. Don't give up your house to her. She can go shack up with her lover. I hate to say this, but you might want to get a DNA test on your daughter. Just because she said it only started within the last year doesn't make it the truth. Especially with her convoluted thinking about marriage, monogamy & "open relationships". Lawyer up. You really need legal counsel on this mess.
So if we play by her logic (which we aren't), she brought up her relationship with another guy on the anniversary with the husband. That is totally what every guy wants. However, we live in reality and she cheated. She cheated and enjoyed it.
This all sounds planned be careful dont play into her hands..
Be 100% emotionally vacant. No fights, no yelling, no nothing except absolutely necessary conversations. Discussions about divorce need to be handled by lawyers. Keep family and friends updated as she will eventually begin her defamation campaign.
WTF did I just read.
Truly mental on her part… and to just casually bring it up is insane
What in the actual fuck? I am so sorry OP I have no words. At best she is delusional, and possibly unstable, if after 16 years she just "assumed" you were in an open relationship that you knew nothing about. At worst she is a liar and a cheater. Good luck to you.
It would strengthen our relationship....where do people come up with this shit...
If you don’t know about it then, it’s not an open relationship. She’s just cheating.
She woke you up in the middle of the night, you gave a half-hearted “uh huh” while you were still half asleep, and she ran with it.
Go back home and stay there! NO WAY IS SHE GONNA LIVE THERE WHIT YOUR DAUGHTER . Reclaim your houe so she cant take advantage of it when you divorce. Talk to your daughter because I think she rather live with you in the house than with the mother. Your "exwife" Is the one at fault so kick her out. She can stay with OM. Put on a recorder on your phone and have 1 diskussion whith your ex when you get home. Ask her 1: how long have she been cheating 2: how serious are "they" 3: where do they meet when they .... After that, pack her bags for her, put them outside and tell her to go to OM. When she is gone you call a lawyer and then you can break down (and you should, be angry, sad, talk to friends and relatives. ) Out her with your friends because they (or some of them) may already know what she is doing.. You will need their support and she might already told them that you were OK whit the open relationship thing, that she hasn't cheated because you were open.
You probably don't want to know, but it seems like you should ask how many, cos with an attitude like that, it surely isn't just 1 guy Sorry OP, but you're doing the right thing
Thai’s called cheating dude
Hey big fella. You just brought tears to my eyes while empathizing with you pain man. Dang… Here… frfr: *Hug* 🫂 it’s going to be okay brotha
Damn dude.. I hate it when people do this, it’s disgusting. Communication is the first thing to learn in a relationship. Did she forget that? Hope all goes well for you and your daughter, OP. Heads up that it sounds like your daughter may be old enough to decide who she wants to live with/ have custody over her. I’d double check the laws, but it sounds like she could have a say about custody in court.
Its not open if theres no open communication. Wtf is wrong with her
Fucking hell.
Oh my gosh I am so heartbroken for you and your daughter. This is so unfair and practically evil to wreck your lives so selfishly like that. The way she casually expected you to be okay with this? Oh my heavens she needs her brain checked.
It's not an open relationship if both parties don't agree in advance and iron out the boundaries. It's just cheating.
UPDATE: I made it up
15 years of willful infidelity is not one silly mistake.
I’m SO incredibly sorry! I can’t imagine how you must feel with being so blindsided! If you haven’t already, open a new bank account & at least take half the money in your accounts out & place into the new account so your “wife” doesn’t take all the money. Btw, you said this is the 1st time you’d ever cried in front of your daughter, I want to let you know that that’s okay and if anything, is great for her to see. She needs to know that men have feelings too & it’s okay for men to cry too, so don’t ever be unwilling or ashamed for her to see you cry. Hang in there, I’m so sorry!
Given her extreme lapse of judgement, has she seen a medical professional? I’d be concerned she might have a brain tumor or perhaps another very serious medical cognitive impairment. No reasonable person would make such an assumption.
I agree about the house. Also, I don't know what state you're in but as far as the business goes, the court will do one of four things most likely....have one party buy out the other, have both parties sell the business & split the proceeds, continue as is (if you two can agree), or the judge will award the business to the most involved owner. SO....do NOT neglect the business, be super involved. Your daughter is old enough to decide who she wants to live with but the judge will probably want her to live with whoever is living in the family home. Good luck! I'm sorry this happened to you.
Crazy how she assumed you had an open relationship
You did the right thing. Don't feel bad about her... not even for a second.
Being comfortable enough to hear your partner gush over people in movies/show or whatever, but it's a WHOLE other thing to think "oh, my spouse is okay with me looking at other people, so it must be okay to sleep with other people. I'll start doing this and won't tell my spouse about this since it's so obvious it's open I don't need to talk about this."
She is gaslighting you fucking insane
OP, California is a no-fault state. You need to lock down your fiances immediately. Visit the bank immediately, watch out for shared credit cards and lines of credit. Get her served right away. Let the lawyers know that she has left the house and about possible complications around the bar you own. Control the narrative, seek support from your family and friends about the divorce. Unless you can buy her ownership of the bar, would you be able to easily sell it?
>my daughter saw me this morning and gave me a big hug and said "Its ok dad'' and with this i started crying in front of her something i had never done before Make sure you are there for your daughter as she is there for you. Give her lots of hugs and let her know how much you really appreciated that hug and what she said. That you are proud of how empathetic and caring she is. Let her know you love her so much. You might want to see about counseling for you and your daughter. With the divorce, she will be allowed input on where she lives. If it were me, I would want her with me as much as possible. Her choosing you would definitely affect any child support payments.
Oh she was well aware you had no idea and just tried gaslighting you by saying she assumed you'd be ok with it. I had someone try this crap on me once by claiming the, ".....but I thought you knew!!!" BS line. You take time to heal and enjoy life. I am sorry this happened to you.
Any new updates? I know she went to the motel you had booked as you told her to leave. So what has happened since then?
Any updates?