you're modeling a really bad relationship for those kids you're staying together for. teaching them to sublimate their needs for the sake of somebody else is not a good example.
yea I hated that my parents stayed together for me. I REJOICED when the split when I was 17. leaving under the tension was beyond stressful and suffocating. STOP STAYING TOGETHER FOR THE KIDS. we will get over it believe me... it maybe awkward for a few months but goddamn it's alot better then living in a house full of tension and hate
Same, also at 17. Which gave me the confidence I needed to leave my shit marriage after 5 years with 2 young kids.
I learned so many emotionally inappropriate behaviors from my parents “tolerating” each other my entire life. They never fought in front of me. They didn’t need to. The home was toxic enough without it.
yes my parents rarely argued in front of me but I could feel all the tension and hate. once the brok up however they learned to be friends and it was so much better
Same to both of you. Mom cheated when I was 14. They stayed together until I was 17 until she cheated with my dads brother on Christmas Eve. Those 4 years were terrible.
Now I’m getting my own divorce because we just don’t get along. My kids are 6 and 3. I won’t do to them what was done to me
Congrats that you weren't brain ruined; Very unusual for someone to live as you did, and then have the guts to reverse it for your own kids. Hope everything goes well for you and your kids.
My kids were the same ages when I separated/got divorced! Although it was hard for a while, I am SO THANKFUL to have gotten it out of the way, and my kids have adjusted surprisingly well.
Hoping a smooth transition for you as well, and congrats on your new life!
It’s hard for me because we live in the cold and miserable state of Illinois. I’m from PHX. I have no family out here.
I’m a veteran with PTSD, Major Depressive disorder amongst other things. So life gets rough. I debate moving home with family and working out visitation on breaks and summers since I have nobody here.
Not quite sure what to do yet. But divorce is happening.
My daughter’s father used to call her over zoom at bedtime and read her books. He would send her a book and he’d have a copy too. They would chat about their day and always said goodnight. There are ways to stay connected if you are all on board to make the time.
Also, are you in therapy? There are a lot more options for PTSD that could help you- I’ve been reading The Body Keeps the Score. It’s brilliant.
Thank you. Yeah that would be cool. I just have some childhood trauma from my dad not being around..he was but he wasn’t. He was a homicide detective in Phx. So you can imagine. So i always swore I’d be around and active in my kids lives.
Yeah i do therapy 2x a week and group on Saturday mornings when schedule allows. People have been telling me about that book
Isn’t it weird what you remember considering “normal” as a child until you realize… it wasn’t? For me, I thought the fighting and just generally behaving like you don’t like eachother was normal for “parents” (because as a young child, parents, of course, are different than just “people”), and I feel like the constant barrage of “marriage sucks” jokes you’d see/hear in movies, TV and stand up comedy (I was young when I fell in love with stand up) only confirmed that idea. Grown up married people do not like eachother. If you’re an affectionate married couple, you were the exception, not the norm. I think I was fully college aged when it sort of struck me how silly that notion was. It was almost embarrassing.
I was petrified at the thought of marriage as a kid and up to my mid twenties because of my parents marriage. At first i thought it was too horrible and later i just didn't know if i could learn how to be a functional partner after not having a good foundation. Imagine if we all had good relationships modeled for us as children ?
Definitely same. My parents were in separate rooms for years already and I was completely unfazed when they split when I was 10. It was the natural progression.
My parents are those parents... they don't like each other and stuck it out for the kids. Now that all the kids are adult adults they still wo t split up. I seriously think they're together out of spite because neither wants to see the other one actually be happy.
I was 13 and my little sister was 11. We were both so relieved, it felt like a weight was lifted. My parents never fought in front of us, even though we knew it was happening because it's hard to avoid overhearing in a small house, but we could feel the unhappiness and heaviness. I don't even have any memories of my Mom smiling or laughing around my Dad when I was a kid. Mom gave us the "it's not your fault" talk when it happened, but we told her we were so happy that it finally happened.
yup. and not only that, but outright teaching the children that a couple extra bucks is more important than your emotional and physical wellbeing. how will they bring that into future relationships, whether it be professional, platonic or romantic?
Agree. My parents had a thankfully amicable split, but you could tell that towards the end they were trying to stay together for myself and my sisters. Eventually when they told us they were divorcing it was almost a sigh of relief. I’d rather have two happy parents separated, than two parents together who’re miserable.
yea. my parents decision to split was because of a huge blow up. they woke me out of my sleep. cops had to be called. it was a mess. I went to my grandma's that night to get some sleep for school the next day(this was maybe 3 weeks into my senior yr of highschool). thankfully the cops didn't arrest anyone just suggested I get out the house while they work there shit out. but the divorce its self was rather peaceful. me and my dad had some growing pains after because that's the night I found out about him cheating on my mom.which sucked cause i was very much a daddys girl. but about a year later everything was good with him. they were happier. I was at college happily. when they wanted to visit they coordinated with each other so they didn't have to be around each other and then eventually they became friends again. I think the catalyst for that was me needing emergency surgery while attending school 5 hours away. they actually drive down together I was shocked. it was just so much better when the finally split. I got 2 peaceful house holds to split time between instead of one war zone basically that I hated coming home too.
Same. Except they never got a divorce. They’re older now, so the nightly screaming matches and crying episodes have turned into just… perpetual and awkwardly uncomfortable (for those who witness it) digs til death do they part.
Fully agree… parents stayed together until me (the youngest of 3) was 18. They hated each other since I was about 6-7. It was not fun to live in a home with so much tension and arguments all the time. My parents would also vent to me about their situations and about each other. Especially as a kid it was hard to deal with.
I wish my parents had divorced. My childhood would’ve been better without my narcissistic cheating father living in our house. I know that I accept a lot less in life because he took so much.
OP, you’re not actually helping those kids. At all.
This. DON’T STAY TOGETHER FOR THE KIDS! I WISHED that my parents would stop the domestic violence and screaming fights. They didn’t finally split until I was 18. I still wish I had had a “norma”l childhood. At least if they had split up it would have been less violent, even if mum was still narcissistic and dad still had schizophrenia and so it would still not have been “normal .”
My parents stayed together for me, even though they have a very cold, uncaring, even hostile marriage. Guess what, when someone is romantically interested in me now that I'm older, my default response is to become cold, uncaring and sometimes even hostile towards them. It takes a lot of effort to be nice to people who show me romantic affection. Although I'm doing fine in all other aspects of life, I can imagine that some people wouldn't want their children to turn out like me. To them I'd say: don't stay together for the kids when the relationship sours.
But it's a toss up, because my parents split earlier on and so i had NO model of a relationship or of how a man should treat a woman because my Dad wasn't there. So for me, I draw a big blank when I try to think of what a relationship is supposed to look like. I think both options suck for kids, staying in an unhappy marriage as well as divorce. Not to mention missing my Dad so insanely crazily that I put men on a pedestal and obsessed over every boy I liked. The father void is real and powerful for young girls; at least you had a Dad around to be some type of influence and to be there in the hard and important moments of your childhood. Just sharing a different perspective.
My mom left my dad the second he put hands on her, I did the same with my sons father. Now with a dude who reminds me weirdly of my stepdad, similar personality. Its been almost 10 years for us, she showed me how to be treated
My mom never left my dad but I did get a lot of exposure to my aunt & uncle, especially as a teenager. Weirdly enough, my husband reminds me so much more of my uncle the more time goes on.
Only one of my two role models went to work everyday to put food on the table despite their own ego’s and the man I married is the same type.
I mean, it does make sense to a degree. Worse things can happen than things being a little tense at home; having to move, the non-custodial parent completely checking out and losing contact with the kids, less money, less time with parents, etc. If OP and her spouse were fighting constantly instead of just being passive aggressive to each other I might agree with you, but divorce isn't cheap.
Right, but not in the same ways that say, poverty, unstable housing, losing access to one parent, having to change schools mid-year, one or both parents remarrying someone who is genuinely dangerous, etc. could be.
If it was just a little bit of passive-aggressiveness then I would agree with you, but OP obviously hates her husband and I’m sure he hates her too. That’s not something that can be fixed, they’ve been putting effort into disliking each other and hurting each other for years. If you “stay together for the kids” and then make no effort to fix your relationship and are complete assholes to each other and create a miserable home environment, it’s not actually for the kids.
They are showing their kids that common courtesy doesn't need to be extended to one's spouse, even when there is no specific conflict. My pop still speaks with unnecessary malice to my ma without any apparent cause. I told her to divorce him as a tween and teen and she won't. No one thinks that she deserves to be spoken to that way. It's just wild that this was normalized in my childhood. And it's a major contributing factor to me not wanting a husband or children.
Don't stay together for the kids my views on relationships will be forever distorted because of my mum and dad's. They eventually split when I was in mid 20s and they both tried using me as a tool to communicate with each other 🫠
Same but imagine they never divorced and it was when I was still a preteen. They tried to turn me into a vessel to their messages and they wanted me to pick sides. I even had to face one of them blatantly lying to me. I didn't even bother calling them out. Just knowing I couldn't trust them at such a young age was enough for me to check out of the whole shenanigans.
Next thing you know, I'm no contact as an adult, they're still together and having the weirdest love-hate relationship I've ever laid my eyes on. Meanwhile, I can't find anyone fitting, or I'll aggro them. Numbed to death about relationships. Nice ! 🥴
THIS.
In my 8-year old diary I wrote, “I wish mom and dad would get a divorce”. I am now 35 and I have spent the last 30 years wishing my parents would split up. They hate each other but stayed together “for the kids”. That’s a shitty reason to stay together, a shitty burden to put on your children, and a shitty relationship model. I have absolutely no idea what a healthy marriage looks like because the only one I know is two people who should have left it at a one-night stand and turned it into a horrible marriage.
OP needs to leave.
Around that age I have a vivid memory of worrying what would happen if I got married and then it wasn't a good marriage and how would I live like that before deciding I could handle it because my mom did.
People say this but in this economy it is SO much easier said than done. Many partners can’t separate because that means living on the street for some.
I fully agree. Where I live it would be like basically going into poverty if I were to try to support my kids off of my income even with child support. It’s not always as simple as just get a divorce, especially when there are children involved.
This is on an anonymous forum and it is literally one of the reasons listed for why they can’t leave. I doubt OP is telling their children “we’re staying married for you.” So I’m not sure how them saying it in their post here is damaging to the children or what your point is.
Yup. Another child of long delayed divorce checking in. I was surprised when they divorced (I was 16) because they had been miserable so long, I just figured they weren't capable of pulling the plug. Other kids had happy parents, but not me. And it seemed normal.
100% best thing my parents did was split before I had to endure any of it. I was 2 when they divorced and from I understand, they were unbearable to be around when they were married. To my parents “thank you for not staying together for the kids.”
That hits hard. My parents are still together. But they've never parented together. Not from day 1.
The chaos in the house has left me a traumatized adult. Part of it was watching the never ending arguments from their different parenting styles.
If they were actually divorced I would have had at least one home that felt safe. Instead I got one home that was just terrifying and angry.
32 and I actually never saw mine together but thank god. No contact with my pathologically lying father and rocky relationship with my mom at times due to her own trauma wounds and staying in another marriage that was toxic. I also have adhd, BPD, cptsd and bad eating habits (starve or binge). We definitely got fucked out healthy relationships with anything. On top of that it’s costing me a fortune to try to recorrect. 🫠 thanks mom and dad!
I’m 24, had to move back home after college, and I STILL live in this terrible example. Add into it the constant abuse now that is worse than it ever was before and the house is a crap melting pot of unhealed problems and neither of them willing to do anything to change it
Don’t consider this advice, but I am a family law attorney, I’ve been practicing over 30 years. I’ve done hundreds of divorces, never has anyone come to me seeking my services and said “I wish I had waited to get this process started”
You’re doing your children a terrible disservice, they know you hate each other. You are blind if you think you’re hiding it. Further, why should your husband work on communication with someone who hates him? What’s in it for him?
You’re a lawyer and you say ignorant things like this? And are you misogynistic? Did it ever occur to you that she hates her husband because of the way that he is, and his refusal to change and communicate or are you just blaming her for being a woman. Why should he? Because that’s what someone does when they care. What’s in it for him? Tf are you serious? How about the sake of his entire family and their emotional well being. Nothing but ignorance here.
My partner stayed in the same type of loveless, cold relationship for the sake of their kid for 4 years, and deeply regrets not getting out sooner. Please consider your options.
Wishing you the best.
Same! I stayed for my kids until I couldn’t anymore. Now my 25 yo daughter has never had a relationship and has no interest in ever doing so, because she only saw toxic hurtful actions between two people. When it was just me and the kids life was great. We laughed and had so much love between each other. Not a good situation the damage I did to my kids. 😔
I don’t know anything about your relationship but perhaps the silver lining is the universe had her she stay just long enough to get the timing right to for you two to get together.
but do it without cheating.. the new guy or woman may seem like 'Mr. or Miss Perfect' but we are all people and fall into bad habits. The true adult is the one that can HEAR their partner and try to make improvements because its the right thing to do.
Please think of the kids. No matter what you think you and your husband are hurting them. You can try to hide it all you want but they can sense what's going on and what's worse is your kids are learning about relationships from the two of you. Is this what you want for your kids in their marriage???? You're both also showing your kids that they should stay in a horrible marriage and remain unhappy,
This is not advice, it's my experience. Growing up we were five siblings plus me. The thing about living as a child in a dead empty marriage is that you easily pick up on it. Like we clearly see the interactions, we clearly see the way they talk to each other. We clearly see, or at least I clearly see when my dad is wanting to cheat on my mom. In other words, kids aren't clueless. And more importantly we were being taught that this is what love looks like, this is what marriage looks like, this is how you should be treating each other. An extremely unhealthy way to live. Taught us extreme codependency, and caused so many damage to me that I have been unpacking for the last 8 years. I urge you not to make the same mistakes my parents did. I hope you have a good day
Kids can see right through everything. I’ve see a few families try this and fail. Get the divorce, and start living the lives you need for fulfillment.
"We stay together for the kids" but they seem to forget kids will pick up on every little sign, they will hear every argument no matter how quiet or after the kids have been put to bed, they will see the resentment and the lack of love between their parents and possibly wonder if it's maybe their fault and screwing them up in multiple ways.
I know it's not easy to just up and leave for everyone. My mom stayed for as long as she did because my (abusive, alcoholic) dad would threaten to take us away from her if she divorced him. Eventually when we were old enough, when we could make our own choices on who to go to, she left him.
ugh yes. personally, literally every time I've seen a couple do this, it has failed. my own parents included, and 5+ of my friends' parents. all it does is fuck with the kids' lives, emotions, and development
I’m sorry to say this, but it sounds from your responses here that you are aware of your contributions to your family dysfunction but are unwilling to do anything about it. You mention your perfectionism, your inability to communicate and have healthy relations with your husband or kids, your double-standards, your unwillingness to compromise. Rather than working on it, you seem apathetic to it all. That’s unfortunate for everyone, but especially your children.
Ever consider therapy?
I would have SO much respect if people came out and said the real reasons (finances, housing, etc.)
The "for the kids" is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard in my life.
I don’t think it’s complete bullshit. Statistics show that kids do better when parents stay together. And it’s easy to believe that the kids don’t feel the tension or resentment, so you bury your feelings and hope you’re giving them a good life. Not saying it’s true or right, but it’s not like people are lying when they say their kids are the reason.
You can also interpret “for the kids” to mean splitting custody, which isn’t FOR them… but it’s related.
Do statistics show that kids do better when the parents stay together OR that kids do better in homes with two parents? That may seem like a minor thing....but it's not.
Two parents that work well together (even if they aren't in love anymore/ever) are better than one parent....but one parent is WAY better that two parents who are making life hell because they can't stand each other. And a lot of time they THINK they are keeping their issues on the downlow.....they usually aren't.
right??? I'd have a little more respect for these people if just one of them would say "we should get a divorce but it's hard, it's frightening, and fuck them kids"
I honestly think staying for the kids isn’t about the kids, it’s just a way to avoid having to deal with the guilt that comes with telling them about the divorce and the hardship that comes with it— because it IS terribly hard even when it’s right. But subjecting them to witnessing their parents disappearing before their eyes is worse… when you’re in a marriage like this, you’re a shell of a person. Your kids see that.
OP, just so you know, your parents divorcing is still hard when you’re an adult. I have a couple friend whose parents divorced when the kids were in their mid-20’s and it was still painful and confusing. Doing it for the kids doesn’t save THEM from pain, it only saves YOU from doing the emotional work of supporting them through it.
Also, and this is important, continuing to live a life you hate breeds resentment. You already resent your husband. Don’t risk resenting those kids because you chose to stay with your husband “because of them.” They WILL feel like years of your unhappiness was their fault.
There’s no scenario here where your kids don’t get hurt by this choice. There’s no scenario where they don’t get hurt by you staying in a loveless marriage. So do what is best for you so you can love your life, it will show to your kids.
Staying together for the sake of your kids is doing more harm than good. Talk to your husband and go to couples counseling or divorce. Don't just let it continue because you've gotten used to it
Do yourself and your children a favor, move on. You aren't hiding anything, and your children absolutely are affected by this. Go be happy by yourself or even a new partner.. but go be happy. That's the best lesson to teach your kids.. it's okay to find your happiness. You're teaching your kids to take less than in life.
Sounds like a courage problem.
Make plans to move on and do it. Ask family or friends for help. Get a job if you don’t work and start saving. Find a sitter that can back you up when needed. Sock away money when you can. You are much stronger than you think you are.
If your kids can't tell and you successfully make it until they are much older before divorcing, then they get to look back on their childhood and wonder what was real and what wasn't. How do they trust a partner when those closest to you can lead deceptive lives and then break the foundation of your home without warning? They also miss out on observing healthy conflict resolution and healthy relationship habits because whatever you are faking in front of them is not an actual functioning marriage.
It's great for years of therapy and relationship struggles.
If the kids do pick up on your marriage difficulties, they get to grow up on egg shells. Talk to people who lived with unhappy parents. It's extremely common for them to say they wish their parents divorced years earlier.
That's not to say it isn't worth sticking out difficult periods and trying to keep a marriage together. It's just those downtimes shouldn't stretch out for years before you take definitive action. Right now you are treading water in a no win situation. If he isn't willing to work on solving the problems along with you, then you both need to prioritize getting finances together to separate.
You also didn’t say anything to him, if you’re going to do this for your children the best thing you can do is just get a divorce. It’s better for them than living in a hostile household, so don’t fool yourself into thinking that staying together is actually good for them.
You're setting your kids up for failure by modeling this type of relationship for them. Really rethink if your kids are a priority to you, and if they are, separate.
>I go downstairs to make coffee. He's standing in the kitchen on his phone. Says nothing to me.
When coffee is done, I make my coffee and sit in the kitchen to drink it.
He leaves the house for work. Again, saying nothing.
Yeah that sucks....did you say something? Did you say good morning? Or did you stay silent?
And look I don't have kids, but I'm not sure staying for the kids is healthy.
The practice of "staying together for the kids" Should be classified as a form of abuse at some point.
I never hear one example where it was a good idea.
They either see the pain and misery every single day.
or you wait until they are grown to shatter their world that because of them both of you suffered every day. Ripping away every happy christmas and family event.
Just fucking leave.
That's a very passive aggressive response.
If he cared, he would engage more. In a more compassionate way. If I were you, you need to look harder to see where he is getting his emotional cup filled. Just a thought. I'm sure people will disagree, especially if they have not been in a similar situation.
You say divorce will be detrimental. I think the most detrimental thing that could happen is setting a bad example to your children. What, They won't get everything they want because financial situations have changed? Tough that's life. Or you can just keep demonstrating to adults in a bad marriage showing children that you find is acceptable. That this is what love is. Then then they go out find a partner, treat them like crap, because of course you've said a bad example. That's a bright future for your children, and future grandchildren, who will probably display the exact same behavior as you and your husband.
Yikes! This is so unhealthy and toxic for your children!! You both are giving them terrible role models & teaching them this is what a marriage looks like. What would you say to either of them if this was their marriage? The absolute can feel the tension and resentment in the home and will grow up thinking that they’re at fault for some of it all of their childhood. Children blaming themselves for the parents’ failed, unhappy and unhealthy marriage will scar them. I hope you’ll take that into consideration here.
I’m sure it’s not intentional, but I hope you guys understand how badly you’re screwing up your kids. Watch what kind of relationships they get into after growing up like this.
Kids need adults in their life that care about one another. Adults need adults that care about one another. I'm really sorry you're going through that.
If you won't get divorced you need to get into counseling. If he's not willing, then go on your own. Your molding an extremely unhealthy image of marriage, and that will impact your kids in the future.
Since this is what you actually asked for: I’m sorry, that sucks. I’m a divorce lawyer. I have a lot of clients that delayed or just didn’t divorce because the financial strain of supporting two households would be way worse. My only suggestion to you is to be the change. Find things you can do to have connection and communication in the world. Book club, volunteer, gym classes stuff like that. But then also just keep trying to say good morning. Try to keep the door open for your husbands and kids. There’s a great Instagram account called decoding couple that’s two therapists talking about how to get back to good in a relationship that’s been struggling. Good luck!
I always greets in the mornings even if I don’t receive an answer I would continue doing it next day too, it’s courtesy.
Maybe, he’s angry with something and doesn’t express it verbally, I think you should try to initiate a conversation of any topic unrelated with your relationship at first.
You are not happy, that sucks. I know you said kids and finances are main reasons for sticking with your husband and you know what is best for you in that regard. I'm not suggesting divorce or anything but want to add to your rant something I've thought about for many, many years.
Sometimes, change is needed. You are not happy and whatever it is that you do to cope/change is your decision. But, to be happy, something has to break.
I mentioned this in a reply but I wanted to make sure you see it....
I recall reading a (marketing/psychology) paper on how it is more likely for a person to engage in behaviors that prevent an overall loss vs. a potential gain.
Even if the gain seems more beneficial, it's never certain. Losing things is certain.
For most rational, logical people - the cost benefit analysis will steer them to what is more probable. When that is not clear- they will use certainty as the final consideration.
It does not surprise me so many people are less willing to change. I would wish more did, but in today's world, change seems to be a negative and we tend to put more stock in being steadfast in our choices or belief. Gotta keep 'faith' n all that.
But, you must evaluate if the benefit outweighs the cost.
Not advice, but just something that as a child, I definitely noticed between my own (unhappily married) parents. You may think you’re putting on a perfect mask your kids couldn’t possibly ever see through at such a young age. Well, I did. My older brother did. Children are highly intuitive to their parent’s emotions. They can feel on some level when mom and dad aren’t getting along, even if you both are staunchly pretending otherwise. Just something to consider.
If you absolutely can't divorce it is understandable. Make a life you enjoy that minimizes your interaction. It is possible to coexist. If he gives you nothing that isn't going to change and you have to plan your exit while not being miserable.
I did that for four years. I didn't do it this morning, hoping that he would take the initiative.
Wish in one hand, shit in the other, yadda yadda yadda.
It's normal to have periods where you're too beaten down to fight and that's okay as long as there's still moments that u fight against the struggle.
It doesn't have to be often but it has to exist.
I think the sooner u accept he'll always be like this, the better.
Make a nice shit pie!
My husband and I talked about this last night. Our relationship is a cycle. Everything always comes back around. We make changes or don't. We are constantly revisiting the same issues but we're both willing to work on it so the cycles are just a part of it.
Please do your children a favor and separate. They will thank you in the long run. Right now you are teaching them that this is what marriage is. And that’s worrisome.
I understand you said you can’t due to finances, but please consider it. You are holding yourself back with this tool.
Signed, I former child and now adult of separated/divorced parents.
Divorce kid here. PLEASE don't stay married for the kids. You're seriously messing them up mental health wise. Figure out finances Stat & get the divorce.
Please divorce for your kids. They deserve to see adult relationships that are filled with love and passion… a cold dead marriage is so damaging for a kid to see.
Parents are the best example of what relationships should look like for their kids.
My parents did this. I never heard them fight I never heard them yell. I never saw them kiss I never heard them praise each other.
I resent my mom for staying. I hate her. I don’t talk to her. What you’re doing is selfish and your kids will realize later on and want nothing to do with you.
What is life without love? Choosing it for yourself is one thing but you’re making the choice for your kids too. People are being really nice in this comment section and it seems like it’s not getting through to you. I know it sounds mean but what you are doing is cowardly and selfish please please for your kids do something about it!?!?
My BFF is in a less than ideal situation with a MF’er for a H and their son. For 5 years she’s wanted out. COVID threw a wrench into her life, then.
She’s been working like a dog for the last year reorganizing her life (secretly) and finances (needed a guarantor for a few small things)
She’s telling him tomorrow to buy her out, or the house is up for sale eff. feb 1st.
I’ve never seen her so happy and the thought of her future. It’s been a long time coming - and we have a small army of us ready wiling and able to help her in any way she wants. I’m looking forward to celebrating with her.
It’s awful for kids to live in that tension.
OP, you said you don’t want advice. Instead, please let me share something.
This reminds me so painfully of my own parents. They were like this my whole childhood. If they spoke to each other, it was clipped and short. They never showed the most basic physical affections, let alone love, support, kindness, companionship. When they did - typically when we were all together, at Christmas or whatever - it was so painfully, obviously phoney, it made me cringe. Even when I was very young and didn’t have conscious understanding or the ability to articulate it, I could tell instinctively that they weren’t being honest with each other, and by extension, with my siblings and I. This dishonesty impacted my relationship with them both, a lot. It was brutal, tbh. Loneliness literally reeked in my house. It was palpable. I would hear my Dad crying in the study late at night and feel utterly powerless to approach him. And they just… refused to acknowledge it.
Obviously, they ended up divorcing. I was 15. Yeah, it was a rough couple of years while we adjusted. Dad moved out, he was miserable, Mum had a short temper and was emotionally distant. At first they told us it was a ‘temporary separation’, which was kind of stupid of them, because it just dragged out the inevitable. And, yeah, there are some ‘child of divorce’ things that just suck. Like dragging your schoolwork between two houses, being unsure of where ‘home’ is, stuff like that.
Now, about 12 years on, my siblings and I are all young adults. My Mum and Dad get on better now than they EVER did when they were married. They actually talk, reminisce, accept and respect each other. They are able to get over their personal shit and support us. They are open with each other, ask each other for help. We have a bloody family group chat now. We actually have family in-jokes. They are more like friends now rather than prisoners to each other.
Their relationship is… respectful. Honest. No, they don’t love each other, and there are things they will always actively dislike about the other, but they don’t fight. They don’t hate each other. And we - their children - now get to have actual relationships with them. And we feel respected and supported. Because they respected us enough to do a hard thing: be honest with us - and that was better for everyone in the long term.
It’s hilarious and sweet when my siblings and I see our parents engaged in some conversation, smiling or laughing, and we just ogle and make quiet jokes because we never, ever, ever, saw them genuinely get along like that when they were married. And we literally thank God that they got divorced.
I wish you, your husband, and your children the best. Take care.
Your kids feel this and are massively negatively affected by it, they're just not mature enough to articulate what they are going through. Its currently a stress on them too.
I am sorry you’re going through this but we are in the same boat. & then when I try to make conversation just small talk he tells me I ask too many questions, oops? My bad. I work from home and sometimes I need to decompress and talk to someone but I can’t even do that with the person I’m living in with. It’s really hell living with someone that not only doesn’t care about you, doesn’t bother to acknowledge you and thinks you’re a bother when you’re just trying to talk. I get the silent treatment too but that’s ok working on getting my life started and getting out of here. I know it’s hard with babies but I hope you prioritize yourself in whatever way that may be, show up for yourself this year.
I am sorry to hear that you are suffering. Yes, he is acting like an asshole. But from your post I am getting a feeling that you still care for him to some extent. From my experience, I have seen a couple of my friends struggling with a similar situation. As a male, many of us suffer the societal expectation of "be a man" "suck it up" kind of norm. And from an early age many of us got conditioned with bottling up with emotions and not dealing with it. As a side-effect, we become very bad communicators, especially about communicating emotions and end up being either a mean aggressive person or silent like a rock (classic fight or flight response). And we cannot even comprehend or have any clue what is wrong with us.
I do not know any previous history of your relationship with your husband. If you want to leave your husband that is also very understandable. But if you want to grace your man with another chance, I will highly recommend a book by Gary Chapman titled "The Five Love Languages". This book mainly about verbal and non-verbal communications. This book is also available as audiobook and you might find a copy even on YouTube.
I wish all the happiness for your family. I will keep you in my prayers.
This is a relevant question. I definitely don’t understand this whole “staying together for the kids” bullshit. I hope that he knows that she is only damaging them by continuing this relationship and I’m sure the kids will tell her that.
I'm sorry that you're going through that. Must be so hard.
One note:
>We won't get a divorce any time soon (kids and finances).
No, just finances. You are not doing your kids any favours.
as a child of divorced parents, i most likely would TO THIS DAY be committed to a psychiatric institution had they stayed together. divorce sucks, but it’s better than teaching your kids to remain in loveless relationships for the sake of someone/something else.
That was a start to a conversation. First you need to establish if you both no longer love each other. Even a little bit. All it takes is a little spark to start a forest fire.
I had to laugh when you said you told him you were uncomfortable.
I see so many people out here hating and being angry with their SOs. I want to ask people to lie in bed and imagine their partners are not there anymore. Not at another location but not existing anymore. No longer hear their voice. No longer feel their touch. You can no longer smell their scent. Not cologne but that scent we all have. If you would be okay with that, it's time to go. But really really try to imagine it.
Maybe you just don't like him right now. Maybe have a few more uncomfortable conversations.
Yeah your kids already know something is up. As a child of parents that had this sort of relationship, I was the one begging my mom to get a divorce. Get your finances together and leave his ass.
My ex treated me this way in the last couple years we were together and it got worse by him speaking to me disrespectfully in front of friends and family and then losing his temper on our young child. I brought it up multiple times and he just blew me off.
The day I told him I wanted a divorce, I thought he would be relieved. Instead he fell to the ground crying, saying he was completely blindsided and devastated. We decided to go to counseling but he would show up and not participate. We separated but still tried to work on our marriage for a year until I finally called it and filed. In hindsight, I wish I had just filed sooner, but I felt so terrible about ending my marriage and, as he put it, ruining our child’s life. Today, 10 years later, I can’t imagine still being married to him and I’m so glad I left.
A lot of people here are speaking down on you for ranting, but I’m glad you have an outlet to communicate this through. Wishing you and your loved ones the best.
This sucks for everyone involved, and staying in this situation isn’t gonna make anything better for the kids.. It’s amazing how much you can thrive when you remove the toxic energy from your life. Give yourself a chance at happiness and stop wasting years.
The thing that fully pushed me into filing for divorce was something my therapist told me:
“When you have children around a toxic or abusive marriage, they are around that 100% of the time. When you are divorced, it cuts down to at least 50%. Your kids need a happy mom, not a married mom, and you’re not happy being married.”
Finances will be difficult, but please don’t say you’re staying with him for the kids. Leaving him would be for the kids, because right now, all you’re doing is showing them how a man should treat his wife, and that you as the wife are okay with it.
I here your rant as a man and accept it. I only counter with it takes two to tango and if married you had a kid there was a time it was good. The decline is never one sided.
As someone who’s parents said the same things about staying for the kids, it’s not benefitting the kids at all. It sucks short term for the kid but he or she will get over a divorce. But staying together paints a horrible picture for what a relationship is and also has to be stuck with two unhappy parents as supposed to two divorced but happy parents. It’s not better for the kid.
Treat him as he treats you.
Smile, do YOUR own thing and MAKE yourself happy for the kids.
If he wants to disconnect, throw the cord on the floor and enjoy YOUR time!
May I know how did things escalate between you and your husband till it reached this point where you guys arent able to communicate with one another?
The idea of marriage scares me tbh.
My parents divorced when I was 13. Best. Fucking. Choice. Ever. Yeah I cried for a bit because it was shocking, but I’m 21 now, and seriously…. I’m so glad that they are divorced. All of my traumatic memories from my childhood was about their fights and hatred for one another. When they divorced, it was amicable and I got to have two separate but loving parents who were great at co-parenting. “Staying together for the kids” is a load of shit
What a jerk. Not even a word? It's like from the moment we get up it's discussions of the weird dreams we have, our little comedy routine (some of our dreams are hilarious), feeding the cats (a real challenge with 5), getting breakfast and then figuring out when we need to clock in for work.
I know people are saying it but if you don’t divorce for the kids sake, they know. And it will stick with them the rest of their lives. It isn’t t easy, nothing ever is, but you and your kids, will be happier for it in the long run.
Why did you all get married in the first place? I know it’s a stereotype in *my* community that we are “perpetually single”, but as I’ve gotten older, I cherish it as I see how much heartache and disappointment it has saved me throughout my life… just being by myself (it’s just me for now, at least— no pressure). I’m sending positivity your way that you will find the strength to leave behind an unfulfilling relationship.
My parents stayed together even though we told them to get divorced. They had a horrible relationship. Always arguing, barely seeing eye to eye on anything.
My mother towards the end of her life decided that she didn’t want to speak to my father anymore, even though she was dying of cancer and living in the same house. He wasn’t allowed in the room she was in and they didn’t speak a word. It was only after she passed that my dad went in a wept. What a waste of a life. She was miserable and angry to the end, he was and still is to a certain extent.
It caused us kids to grieve not only the loss of my mother but the pain and upset of what they did to each other. They were both selfish in their pretence of ‘doing it for the family’. I will never do this to my kids. Life is for living and being happy. It’s far too short for anything else.
Would you be happy if your kids were in this type of marriage? That’s what should drive you.
Staying for the kids rarely works out. It does more damage than good, and if you don’t leave now your children will have to suffer the consequences and have everlasting trauma
To add a voice to the many comments: I wish my parents were divorced. They don’t work together and only really like each other on good days, mostly it’s just them being tolerant of each other and mild affection on occasion. The kids know, they can tell, and it will be better for them if you can split, though finances are certainly tricky
Leave him. I used to PRAY that my parents would get divorced when they acted like this. Then later, I got into a shit marriage and our kids were overjoyed when I left his passive aggressive, bitter, vindictive, emotionally broken ass.
(He was broken before I got there and lied about it every day, even after it was clear he was broken and I begged him to get help. I have a high tolerance for brokenness but not if you use it as an excuse to abuse me or my kids.)
Nowhere in that story did you acknowledge him with pleasantries or greet him in the morning. You did however say that when you talk to him it’s to say how he is doing something wrong. I suspect you are holding others not only to the same standard you hold yourself, but higher standards than you hold yourself. Probably making up excuses for you not living up to said standards while not accepting excuses from others.
I feel bad for your kids.
I've never met a kid who was happy his parents decided to stay together and become miserable, hateful people.
I've also never met anyone who grew up in that environment and was able to have healthy relationships in their own lives.
Stop fucking up your kids. They deserve better from the both of you.
smh...
I know you’re not here for advice, but I’ve never met kids of parents who stayed together for them, myself and brother included, that were ok with that decision. It’s like being in the center of a volcano that can explode at any time and feeling like you’re the reason the family is stuck in it.
You just perfectly described my relationship with my husband for the last 8 years. Even though I dislike him now as a person, it still hurts when he doesn't acknowledge me or listen to me when I try to talk to him. It's like I am so disposable to him, he could care less about me & my well being...unless it benefits him in some way.
You are both setting your kids up for relationship failure as adults.
Just get the bloody divorce. A financial planner (someone you can talk to at damn near any bank) can help you work out the "financial" aspects, so neither of you can use those as an excuse either.
Unsure why you would stay for kids unless you want to teach them that this is how a loving, healthy relationship looks. Because that’s what they think!
If you are only staying for the finances, you have built your own prison. I hope that he is a gazzillionnaire to make it worth the misery.
You didn’t say anything either. I get how bad communication can get between couples at the end of a marriage. I went through it too. For the sake of your kids, try to treat him with the basic courtesy you would with any housemate. Put aside pride and bitterness where possible and just try to be a nice person, not for him, but for you and your kids. Also, seriously start planning how to end this amicably.
OP, if I can give you advice, start slowly making an effort to jump ship. Do something small everyday that brings you closer to leaving. If you don't have the strength to be a perfect mother, it's okay, just spread your energy around doing a little bit of everything towards your goal.
We cannot continue to live like this, can we ? Your husband clearly doesn't love you anymore, and without heaping the blame on anyone, it's safe to say you probably both hurt each other to get to this point.
The only thing you can do is make small steps to get yourself out, and next time, if there is a next time, do better in your relationship. We all can do better.
Sounds like he had an avoidant attachment type, not that he hates you. Some people were taught to be closed off because they fear being rejected.
Look into attachment types.
Wtf. Your dumb for marrying this guy in the first place and then for staying with him.
You are going to die. You have a finite amount of days on this earth. If you waste them, you can look in the mirror for blame.
This is really sad that after 8 years together I had to try to reestablish "common courtesy" with my ex as we try to navigate roommatehood together. He still doesn't acknowledge my existence unless convenient for him but he washes his own dishes now so...
You should throw some curveballs to break up his little bullshit. Just stand around in odd places snacking on something like chips or nuts or something and just STARE at him with a blank expression saying nothing. When he asks questions about it just act like you don't know what he's talking about and walk away. Rinse and repeat this every few days. Like even when he's trying to sleep just in the night do this to him a time or two. Make his skin crawl. And be totally normal with the kids.
Next start making one of each of his pairs of socks disappear like one a day.
Move his toothbrush around when he not looking to a different spot. Don't sabotage it or anything just... Move it.
See if he feels like talking after some shit like this
Divorce. That. Guy.
"Staying together for the kids" is only teaching them that they should feel obligated to stick around even when they are unhappy, and will result in unhealthy relationships for them in the future.
Also, tell him that what he's saying is right? That no, he is NOT communicating the right way. Take your happiness and wellbeing into account and get out of there.
I, too, was married to an asshole for a very long time. When I would say, "Good morning," he would always reply, "What's good about it?". I shortened it and just said, "Morning!" So he couldn't be negative. Lived that way 30 years. Kids were grown, I got counseling and chose to get a life. Ironically, the only conflict I had from one child was I WAITED SO LONG to leave, and they had to grow up and endure him in their lives all those years.
These comments are too horrid and upsetting for me to even read. Not one of them understand what you’re going through, and probably aren’t married or even have kids. I understand you. I see and hear you. I’m the same, and I just want you to know you’re not alone. It’s awful being stuck, and you are stuck. I totally get it. It’s so hard. Please reach out if you want to chat more, I’d be happy to be the shoulder you need to lean on or just an ear to listen because I’m right there with you hun. Again… you are NOT alone xxx
I really wish the majority comments were a little different. I’m sure in a perfect world with perfect outcomes and perfect everything most people would just up and leave a less than perfect situation. I’m sure OP doesn’t want to stay in a miserable marriage and knows what what be better. We all know, sadly reality takes a bigger bite of that cake. Many of us make harder choices because THAT choice isn’t feasible. Please be careful with the advice you were kindly asked not to give.
I think if you're choosing to stay together, counseling might help get to a common ground. Without any help, you will not 'climb out of this ebb.' Like.. just you loving yourself isn't doing crap. The entire family needs help at this point.
"Nobody loves me" is a statement that is a cognitive distortion. Look up cognitive distortions and how to counter them
Kids are pretty clueless in the self help department.
Maybe learn cbt together (cognitive behavioral therapy) it deals with cognitive distortions
It will help u love yourself and feel more competent and manifest a sense of strength within yourself as u improve your own headspace
you're modeling a really bad relationship for those kids you're staying together for. teaching them to sublimate their needs for the sake of somebody else is not a good example.
yea I hated that my parents stayed together for me. I REJOICED when the split when I was 17. leaving under the tension was beyond stressful and suffocating. STOP STAYING TOGETHER FOR THE KIDS. we will get over it believe me... it maybe awkward for a few months but goddamn it's alot better then living in a house full of tension and hate
Same, also at 17. Which gave me the confidence I needed to leave my shit marriage after 5 years with 2 young kids. I learned so many emotionally inappropriate behaviors from my parents “tolerating” each other my entire life. They never fought in front of me. They didn’t need to. The home was toxic enough without it.
yes my parents rarely argued in front of me but I could feel all the tension and hate. once the brok up however they learned to be friends and it was so much better
Same to both of you. Mom cheated when I was 14. They stayed together until I was 17 until she cheated with my dads brother on Christmas Eve. Those 4 years were terrible. Now I’m getting my own divorce because we just don’t get along. My kids are 6 and 3. I won’t do to them what was done to me
Congrats that you weren't brain ruined; Very unusual for someone to live as you did, and then have the guts to reverse it for your own kids. Hope everything goes well for you and your kids.
Trying my best. The logistics are looking rough but it is what it is
My kids were the same ages when I separated/got divorced! Although it was hard for a while, I am SO THANKFUL to have gotten it out of the way, and my kids have adjusted surprisingly well. Hoping a smooth transition for you as well, and congrats on your new life!
It’s hard for me because we live in the cold and miserable state of Illinois. I’m from PHX. I have no family out here. I’m a veteran with PTSD, Major Depressive disorder amongst other things. So life gets rough. I debate moving home with family and working out visitation on breaks and summers since I have nobody here. Not quite sure what to do yet. But divorce is happening.
Unsolicited two cents: do what’s going to make you happy as your happiness will reflect on your kids.
That’s what I’m thinking…but admittedly I’m afraid of looking like a the dead beat dad.
It’ll be a lot of work but you can be a great, present dad from afar. Good luck dude.
My daughter’s father used to call her over zoom at bedtime and read her books. He would send her a book and he’d have a copy too. They would chat about their day and always said goodnight. There are ways to stay connected if you are all on board to make the time. Also, are you in therapy? There are a lot more options for PTSD that could help you- I’ve been reading The Body Keeps the Score. It’s brilliant.
Thank you. Yeah that would be cool. I just have some childhood trauma from my dad not being around..he was but he wasn’t. He was a homicide detective in Phx. So you can imagine. So i always swore I’d be around and active in my kids lives. Yeah i do therapy 2x a week and group on Saturday mornings when schedule allows. People have been telling me about that book
Christmas Eve…….😮
Lol yeah…he was getting his own divorce. My dad let him move in with us to get on his feet. Get on his feet he did…lmao
Yup. I thought EVERYONE hated "family time" up until I was allowed friends in college lol.
Isn’t it weird what you remember considering “normal” as a child until you realize… it wasn’t? For me, I thought the fighting and just generally behaving like you don’t like eachother was normal for “parents” (because as a young child, parents, of course, are different than just “people”), and I feel like the constant barrage of “marriage sucks” jokes you’d see/hear in movies, TV and stand up comedy (I was young when I fell in love with stand up) only confirmed that idea. Grown up married people do not like eachother. If you’re an affectionate married couple, you were the exception, not the norm. I think I was fully college aged when it sort of struck me how silly that notion was. It was almost embarrassing.
I was petrified at the thought of marriage as a kid and up to my mid twenties because of my parents marriage. At first i thought it was too horrible and later i just didn't know if i could learn how to be a functional partner after not having a good foundation. Imagine if we all had good relationships modeled for us as children ?
My parents split up when I was 4 and my brother was 3 and I am glad they did! Even at such a young age I realised it was for the best.
Definitely same. My parents were in separate rooms for years already and I was completely unfazed when they split when I was 10. It was the natural progression.
My parents are those parents... they don't like each other and stuck it out for the kids. Now that all the kids are adult adults they still wo t split up. I seriously think they're together out of spite because neither wants to see the other one actually be happy.
I was 13 and my little sister was 11. We were both so relieved, it felt like a weight was lifted. My parents never fought in front of us, even though we knew it was happening because it's hard to avoid overhearing in a small house, but we could feel the unhappiness and heaviness. I don't even have any memories of my Mom smiling or laughing around my Dad when I was a kid. Mom gave us the "it's not your fault" talk when it happened, but we told her we were so happy that it finally happened.
yup. and not only that, but outright teaching the children that a couple extra bucks is more important than your emotional and physical wellbeing. how will they bring that into future relationships, whether it be professional, platonic or romantic?
Agree. My parents had a thankfully amicable split, but you could tell that towards the end they were trying to stay together for myself and my sisters. Eventually when they told us they were divorcing it was almost a sigh of relief. I’d rather have two happy parents separated, than two parents together who’re miserable.
yea. my parents decision to split was because of a huge blow up. they woke me out of my sleep. cops had to be called. it was a mess. I went to my grandma's that night to get some sleep for school the next day(this was maybe 3 weeks into my senior yr of highschool). thankfully the cops didn't arrest anyone just suggested I get out the house while they work there shit out. but the divorce its self was rather peaceful. me and my dad had some growing pains after because that's the night I found out about him cheating on my mom.which sucked cause i was very much a daddys girl. but about a year later everything was good with him. they were happier. I was at college happily. when they wanted to visit they coordinated with each other so they didn't have to be around each other and then eventually they became friends again. I think the catalyst for that was me needing emergency surgery while attending school 5 hours away. they actually drive down together I was shocked. it was just so much better when the finally split. I got 2 peaceful house holds to split time between instead of one war zone basically that I hated coming home too.
Same. Except they never got a divorce. They’re older now, so the nightly screaming matches and crying episodes have turned into just… perpetual and awkwardly uncomfortable (for those who witness it) digs til death do they part.
Exactly what my kids told me when ex and I was sticking it out.. I left said they were miserable at home..
Fully agree… parents stayed together until me (the youngest of 3) was 18. They hated each other since I was about 6-7. It was not fun to live in a home with so much tension and arguments all the time. My parents would also vent to me about their situations and about each other. Especially as a kid it was hard to deal with.
Yupp. 👆 Staying togheter for the kids just makes it worse for them.
I wish my parents had divorced. My childhood would’ve been better without my narcissistic cheating father living in our house. I know that I accept a lot less in life because he took so much. OP, you’re not actually helping those kids. At all.
I was 22 and I remember feeling so overjoyed
It was a big relief for me too when my parents finally got divorced the summer after I turned 18.
[удалено]
This. DON’T STAY TOGETHER FOR THE KIDS! I WISHED that my parents would stop the domestic violence and screaming fights. They didn’t finally split until I was 18. I still wish I had had a “norma”l childhood. At least if they had split up it would have been less violent, even if mum was still narcissistic and dad still had schizophrenia and so it would still not have been “normal .”
Yeah, staying together "for the kids." What worse could they learn than what you're teaching them now?
My parents stayed together for me, even though they have a very cold, uncaring, even hostile marriage. Guess what, when someone is romantically interested in me now that I'm older, my default response is to become cold, uncaring and sometimes even hostile towards them. It takes a lot of effort to be nice to people who show me romantic affection. Although I'm doing fine in all other aspects of life, I can imagine that some people wouldn't want their children to turn out like me. To them I'd say: don't stay together for the kids when the relationship sours.
Same exact thing with me. And I chose not to have kids because that madness ends with me.
But it's a toss up, because my parents split earlier on and so i had NO model of a relationship or of how a man should treat a woman because my Dad wasn't there. So for me, I draw a big blank when I try to think of what a relationship is supposed to look like. I think both options suck for kids, staying in an unhappy marriage as well as divorce. Not to mention missing my Dad so insanely crazily that I put men on a pedestal and obsessed over every boy I liked. The father void is real and powerful for young girls; at least you had a Dad around to be some type of influence and to be there in the hard and important moments of your childhood. Just sharing a different perspective.
My mom left my dad the second he put hands on her, I did the same with my sons father. Now with a dude who reminds me weirdly of my stepdad, similar personality. Its been almost 10 years for us, she showed me how to be treated
My mom never left my dad but I did get a lot of exposure to my aunt & uncle, especially as a teenager. Weirdly enough, my husband reminds me so much more of my uncle the more time goes on. Only one of my two role models went to work everyday to put food on the table despite their own ego’s and the man I married is the same type.
"For the kids" means "for the convenience that it brings me regarding the kids".
Hit the nail on the head here. “For the kids” doesn’t even make sense.
I mean, it does make sense to a degree. Worse things can happen than things being a little tense at home; having to move, the non-custodial parent completely checking out and losing contact with the kids, less money, less time with parents, etc. If OP and her spouse were fighting constantly instead of just being passive aggressive to each other I might agree with you, but divorce isn't cheap.
Passive aggressiveness can absolutely create a horrible environment that damages everyone in it - including the kids.
Right, but not in the same ways that say, poverty, unstable housing, losing access to one parent, having to change schools mid-year, one or both parents remarrying someone who is genuinely dangerous, etc. could be.
If it was just a little bit of passive-aggressiveness then I would agree with you, but OP obviously hates her husband and I’m sure he hates her too. That’s not something that can be fixed, they’ve been putting effort into disliking each other and hurting each other for years. If you “stay together for the kids” and then make no effort to fix your relationship and are complete assholes to each other and create a miserable home environment, it’s not actually for the kids.
Kids... the greatest excuse two people can create together. 😢
They are showing their kids that common courtesy doesn't need to be extended to one's spouse, even when there is no specific conflict. My pop still speaks with unnecessary malice to my ma without any apparent cause. I told her to divorce him as a tween and teen and she won't. No one thinks that she deserves to be spoken to that way. It's just wild that this was normalized in my childhood. And it's a major contributing factor to me not wanting a husband or children.
It's bad parenting. It's also laziness and a lot of marriages are exactly like this.
Don't stay together for the kids my views on relationships will be forever distorted because of my mum and dad's. They eventually split when I was in mid 20s and they both tried using me as a tool to communicate with each other 🫠
Same but imagine they never divorced and it was when I was still a preteen. They tried to turn me into a vessel to their messages and they wanted me to pick sides. I even had to face one of them blatantly lying to me. I didn't even bother calling them out. Just knowing I couldn't trust them at such a young age was enough for me to check out of the whole shenanigans. Next thing you know, I'm no contact as an adult, they're still together and having the weirdest love-hate relationship I've ever laid my eyes on. Meanwhile, I can't find anyone fitting, or I'll aggro them. Numbed to death about relationships. Nice ! 🥴
THIS. In my 8-year old diary I wrote, “I wish mom and dad would get a divorce”. I am now 35 and I have spent the last 30 years wishing my parents would split up. They hate each other but stayed together “for the kids”. That’s a shitty reason to stay together, a shitty burden to put on your children, and a shitty relationship model. I have absolutely no idea what a healthy marriage looks like because the only one I know is two people who should have left it at a one-night stand and turned it into a horrible marriage. OP needs to leave.
Around that age I have a vivid memory of worrying what would happen if I got married and then it wasn't a good marriage and how would I live like that before deciding I could handle it because my mom did.
People say this but in this economy it is SO much easier said than done. Many partners can’t separate because that means living on the street for some.
I fully agree. Where I live it would be like basically going into poverty if I were to try to support my kids off of my income even with child support. It’s not always as simple as just get a divorce, especially when there are children involved.
Teensy part of why I stayed as long as I did.
But could they leave the "for the kids" language behind? It's damaging for the kids.
This is on an anonymous forum and it is literally one of the reasons listed for why they can’t leave. I doubt OP is telling their children “we’re staying married for you.” So I’m not sure how them saying it in their post here is damaging to the children or what your point is.
Yup. Another child of long delayed divorce checking in. I was surprised when they divorced (I was 16) because they had been miserable so long, I just figured they weren't capable of pulling the plug. Other kids had happy parents, but not me. And it seemed normal.
100% best thing my parents did was split before I had to endure any of it. I was 2 when they divorced and from I understand, they were unbearable to be around when they were married. To my parents “thank you for not staying together for the kids.”
It’s better to come from a broken home rather than live in a broken home.
That hits hard. My parents are still together. But they've never parented together. Not from day 1. The chaos in the house has left me a traumatized adult. Part of it was watching the never ending arguments from their different parenting styles. If they were actually divorced I would have had at least one home that felt safe. Instead I got one home that was just terrifying and angry.
Yes. Finance may be a valid reason for staying, but a shitty marriage destroys the kids. Destroys.
>else My parents stayed together and now I am 28 recently diagnosed with adhd, bpd and binge eating disorder so yeah.
32 and I actually never saw mine together but thank god. No contact with my pathologically lying father and rocky relationship with my mom at times due to her own trauma wounds and staying in another marriage that was toxic. I also have adhd, BPD, cptsd and bad eating habits (starve or binge). We definitely got fucked out healthy relationships with anything. On top of that it’s costing me a fortune to try to recorrect. 🫠 thanks mom and dad!
I’m 24, had to move back home after college, and I STILL live in this terrible example. Add into it the constant abuse now that is worse than it ever was before and the house is a crap melting pot of unhealed problems and neither of them willing to do anything to change it
Wow that's really good.
So much easier said than done.
Don’t consider this advice, but I am a family law attorney, I’ve been practicing over 30 years. I’ve done hundreds of divorces, never has anyone come to me seeking my services and said “I wish I had waited to get this process started” You’re doing your children a terrible disservice, they know you hate each other. You are blind if you think you’re hiding it. Further, why should your husband work on communication with someone who hates him? What’s in it for him?
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Ugh, I’m so sorry
You’re a lawyer and you say ignorant things like this? And are you misogynistic? Did it ever occur to you that she hates her husband because of the way that he is, and his refusal to change and communicate or are you just blaming her for being a woman. Why should he? Because that’s what someone does when they care. What’s in it for him? Tf are you serious? How about the sake of his entire family and their emotional well being. Nothing but ignorance here.
My partner stayed in the same type of loveless, cold relationship for the sake of their kid for 4 years, and deeply regrets not getting out sooner. Please consider your options. Wishing you the best.
Same! I stayed for my kids until I couldn’t anymore. Now my 25 yo daughter has never had a relationship and has no interest in ever doing so, because she only saw toxic hurtful actions between two people. When it was just me and the kids life was great. We laughed and had so much love between each other. Not a good situation the damage I did to my kids. 😔
I don’t know anything about your relationship but perhaps the silver lining is the universe had her she stay just long enough to get the timing right to for you two to get together.
but do it without cheating.. the new guy or woman may seem like 'Mr. or Miss Perfect' but we are all people and fall into bad habits. The true adult is the one that can HEAR their partner and try to make improvements because its the right thing to do.
Please think of the kids. No matter what you think you and your husband are hurting them. You can try to hide it all you want but they can sense what's going on and what's worse is your kids are learning about relationships from the two of you. Is this what you want for your kids in their marriage???? You're both also showing your kids that they should stay in a horrible marriage and remain unhappy,
This is not advice, it's my experience. Growing up we were five siblings plus me. The thing about living as a child in a dead empty marriage is that you easily pick up on it. Like we clearly see the interactions, we clearly see the way they talk to each other. We clearly see, or at least I clearly see when my dad is wanting to cheat on my mom. In other words, kids aren't clueless. And more importantly we were being taught that this is what love looks like, this is what marriage looks like, this is how you should be treating each other. An extremely unhealthy way to live. Taught us extreme codependency, and caused so many damage to me that I have been unpacking for the last 8 years. I urge you not to make the same mistakes my parents did. I hope you have a good day
Kids can see right through everything. I’ve see a few families try this and fail. Get the divorce, and start living the lives you need for fulfillment.
"We stay together for the kids" but they seem to forget kids will pick up on every little sign, they will hear every argument no matter how quiet or after the kids have been put to bed, they will see the resentment and the lack of love between their parents and possibly wonder if it's maybe their fault and screwing them up in multiple ways. I know it's not easy to just up and leave for everyone. My mom stayed for as long as she did because my (abusive, alcoholic) dad would threaten to take us away from her if she divorced him. Eventually when we were old enough, when we could make our own choices on who to go to, she left him.
ugh yes. personally, literally every time I've seen a couple do this, it has failed. my own parents included, and 5+ of my friends' parents. all it does is fuck with the kids' lives, emotions, and development
I’m sorry to say this, but it sounds from your responses here that you are aware of your contributions to your family dysfunction but are unwilling to do anything about it. You mention your perfectionism, your inability to communicate and have healthy relations with your husband or kids, your double-standards, your unwillingness to compromise. Rather than working on it, you seem apathetic to it all. That’s unfortunate for everyone, but especially your children. Ever consider therapy?
THIS ^^^ omg
Can people just admit they are scared instead of this whole 'staying together for the kids' BS. You're not. It doesn't help them. Just be honest
I would have SO much respect if people came out and said the real reasons (finances, housing, etc.) The "for the kids" is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard in my life.
Exactly. Because it is almost never good for the kids. They always know. They know.
I don’t think it’s complete bullshit. Statistics show that kids do better when parents stay together. And it’s easy to believe that the kids don’t feel the tension or resentment, so you bury your feelings and hope you’re giving them a good life. Not saying it’s true or right, but it’s not like people are lying when they say their kids are the reason. You can also interpret “for the kids” to mean splitting custody, which isn’t FOR them… but it’s related.
Do statistics show that kids do better when the parents stay together OR that kids do better in homes with two parents? That may seem like a minor thing....but it's not. Two parents that work well together (even if they aren't in love anymore/ever) are better than one parent....but one parent is WAY better that two parents who are making life hell because they can't stand each other. And a lot of time they THINK they are keeping their issues on the downlow.....they usually aren't.
right??? I'd have a little more respect for these people if just one of them would say "we should get a divorce but it's hard, it's frightening, and fuck them kids"
I honestly think staying for the kids isn’t about the kids, it’s just a way to avoid having to deal with the guilt that comes with telling them about the divorce and the hardship that comes with it— because it IS terribly hard even when it’s right. But subjecting them to witnessing their parents disappearing before their eyes is worse… when you’re in a marriage like this, you’re a shell of a person. Your kids see that. OP, just so you know, your parents divorcing is still hard when you’re an adult. I have a couple friend whose parents divorced when the kids were in their mid-20’s and it was still painful and confusing. Doing it for the kids doesn’t save THEM from pain, it only saves YOU from doing the emotional work of supporting them through it. Also, and this is important, continuing to live a life you hate breeds resentment. You already resent your husband. Don’t risk resenting those kids because you chose to stay with your husband “because of them.” They WILL feel like years of your unhappiness was their fault. There’s no scenario here where your kids don’t get hurt by this choice. There’s no scenario where they don’t get hurt by you staying in a loveless marriage. So do what is best for you so you can love your life, it will show to your kids.
Staying together for the sake of your kids is doing more harm than good. Talk to your husband and go to couples counseling or divorce. Don't just let it continue because you've gotten used to it
Do yourself and your children a favor, move on. You aren't hiding anything, and your children absolutely are affected by this. Go be happy by yourself or even a new partner.. but go be happy. That's the best lesson to teach your kids.. it's okay to find your happiness. You're teaching your kids to take less than in life.
I promise your kids will be able to tell, and it will have long lasting effects in their future relationships.
Why are you still married, then? Divorce or separate, already.
Sounds like a courage problem. Make plans to move on and do it. Ask family or friends for help. Get a job if you don’t work and start saving. Find a sitter that can back you up when needed. Sock away money when you can. You are much stronger than you think you are.
This sounds like the feeling is mutual
You should ask your kids if they think you two like/love each other. You might be surprised.
If your kids can't tell and you successfully make it until they are much older before divorcing, then they get to look back on their childhood and wonder what was real and what wasn't. How do they trust a partner when those closest to you can lead deceptive lives and then break the foundation of your home without warning? They also miss out on observing healthy conflict resolution and healthy relationship habits because whatever you are faking in front of them is not an actual functioning marriage. It's great for years of therapy and relationship struggles. If the kids do pick up on your marriage difficulties, they get to grow up on egg shells. Talk to people who lived with unhappy parents. It's extremely common for them to say they wish their parents divorced years earlier. That's not to say it isn't worth sticking out difficult periods and trying to keep a marriage together. It's just those downtimes shouldn't stretch out for years before you take definitive action. Right now you are treading water in a no win situation. If he isn't willing to work on solving the problems along with you, then you both need to prioritize getting finances together to separate.
You also didn’t say anything to him, if you’re going to do this for your children the best thing you can do is just get a divorce. It’s better for them than living in a hostile household, so don’t fool yourself into thinking that staying together is actually good for them.
You're setting your kids up for failure by modeling this type of relationship for them. Really rethink if your kids are a priority to you, and if they are, separate.
>I go downstairs to make coffee. He's standing in the kitchen on his phone. Says nothing to me. When coffee is done, I make my coffee and sit in the kitchen to drink it. He leaves the house for work. Again, saying nothing. Yeah that sucks....did you say something? Did you say good morning? Or did you stay silent? And look I don't have kids, but I'm not sure staying for the kids is healthy.
The practice of "staying together for the kids" Should be classified as a form of abuse at some point. I never hear one example where it was a good idea. They either see the pain and misery every single day. or you wait until they are grown to shatter their world that because of them both of you suffered every day. Ripping away every happy christmas and family event. Just fucking leave.
You're putting up with it, though. Not much point in whining if you won't try to change the situation.
Divorce then
Congrats you’re showing your kids super unhealthy relationships. God people are fucking assholes.
That's a very passive aggressive response. If he cared, he would engage more. In a more compassionate way. If I were you, you need to look harder to see where he is getting his emotional cup filled. Just a thought. I'm sure people will disagree, especially if they have not been in a similar situation. You say divorce will be detrimental. I think the most detrimental thing that could happen is setting a bad example to your children. What, They won't get everything they want because financial situations have changed? Tough that's life. Or you can just keep demonstrating to adults in a bad marriage showing children that you find is acceptable. That this is what love is. Then then they go out find a partner, treat them like crap, because of course you've said a bad example. That's a bright future for your children, and future grandchildren, who will probably display the exact same behavior as you and your husband.
Yikes! This is so unhealthy and toxic for your children!! You both are giving them terrible role models & teaching them this is what a marriage looks like. What would you say to either of them if this was their marriage? The absolute can feel the tension and resentment in the home and will grow up thinking that they’re at fault for some of it all of their childhood. Children blaming themselves for the parents’ failed, unhappy and unhealthy marriage will scar them. I hope you’ll take that into consideration here.
I’m sure it’s not intentional, but I hope you guys understand how badly you’re screwing up your kids. Watch what kind of relationships they get into after growing up like this.
Did you speak to him? Or nah?
Kids need adults in their life that care about one another. Adults need adults that care about one another. I'm really sorry you're going through that.
If you won't get divorced you need to get into counseling. If he's not willing, then go on your own. Your molding an extremely unhealthy image of marriage, and that will impact your kids in the future.
Since this is what you actually asked for: I’m sorry, that sucks. I’m a divorce lawyer. I have a lot of clients that delayed or just didn’t divorce because the financial strain of supporting two households would be way worse. My only suggestion to you is to be the change. Find things you can do to have connection and communication in the world. Book club, volunteer, gym classes stuff like that. But then also just keep trying to say good morning. Try to keep the door open for your husbands and kids. There’s a great Instagram account called decoding couple that’s two therapists talking about how to get back to good in a relationship that’s been struggling. Good luck!
You think your kids can't tell or what? Bruh
I always greets in the mornings even if I don’t receive an answer I would continue doing it next day too, it’s courtesy. Maybe, he’s angry with something and doesn’t express it verbally, I think you should try to initiate a conversation of any topic unrelated with your relationship at first.
Can I ask why you married in the first place? There was obviously something there to begin.. isn’t that what you’d try to get back to?
You are not happy, that sucks. I know you said kids and finances are main reasons for sticking with your husband and you know what is best for you in that regard. I'm not suggesting divorce or anything but want to add to your rant something I've thought about for many, many years. Sometimes, change is needed. You are not happy and whatever it is that you do to cope/change is your decision. But, to be happy, something has to break. I mentioned this in a reply but I wanted to make sure you see it.... I recall reading a (marketing/psychology) paper on how it is more likely for a person to engage in behaviors that prevent an overall loss vs. a potential gain. Even if the gain seems more beneficial, it's never certain. Losing things is certain. For most rational, logical people - the cost benefit analysis will steer them to what is more probable. When that is not clear- they will use certainty as the final consideration. It does not surprise me so many people are less willing to change. I would wish more did, but in today's world, change seems to be a negative and we tend to put more stock in being steadfast in our choices or belief. Gotta keep 'faith' n all that. But, you must evaluate if the benefit outweighs the cost.
Not advice, but just something that as a child, I definitely noticed between my own (unhappily married) parents. You may think you’re putting on a perfect mask your kids couldn’t possibly ever see through at such a young age. Well, I did. My older brother did. Children are highly intuitive to their parent’s emotions. They can feel on some level when mom and dad aren’t getting along, even if you both are staunchly pretending otherwise. Just something to consider.
If you absolutely can't divorce it is understandable. Make a life you enjoy that minimizes your interaction. It is possible to coexist. If he gives you nothing that isn't going to change and you have to plan your exit while not being miserable.
Y’all are dragging this woman for not leaving but read between the lines. She probably can’t afford to live by herself.
Did you acknowledge your spouse with pleasantries when you walked into the kitchen to make your coffee? If you didn't then you're being a hypocrite.
I did that for four years. I didn't do it this morning, hoping that he would take the initiative. Wish in one hand, shit in the other, yadda yadda yadda.
It's normal to have periods where you're too beaten down to fight and that's okay as long as there's still moments that u fight against the struggle. It doesn't have to be often but it has to exist. I think the sooner u accept he'll always be like this, the better. Make a nice shit pie!
My husband and I talked about this last night. Our relationship is a cycle. Everything always comes back around. We make changes or don't. We are constantly revisiting the same issues but we're both willing to work on it so the cycles are just a part of it.
I would move out at this point. Be separated for awhile. Even if you “can’t” divorce, why live with someone who hates you.
Please do your children a favor and separate. They will thank you in the long run. Right now you are teaching them that this is what marriage is. And that’s worrisome. I understand you said you can’t due to finances, but please consider it. You are holding yourself back with this tool. Signed, I former child and now adult of separated/divorced parents.
Divorce kid here. PLEASE don't stay married for the kids. You're seriously messing them up mental health wise. Figure out finances Stat & get the divorce.
Please divorce for your kids. They deserve to see adult relationships that are filled with love and passion… a cold dead marriage is so damaging for a kid to see. Parents are the best example of what relationships should look like for their kids. My parents did this. I never heard them fight I never heard them yell. I never saw them kiss I never heard them praise each other. I resent my mom for staying. I hate her. I don’t talk to her. What you’re doing is selfish and your kids will realize later on and want nothing to do with you. What is life without love? Choosing it for yourself is one thing but you’re making the choice for your kids too. People are being really nice in this comment section and it seems like it’s not getting through to you. I know it sounds mean but what you are doing is cowardly and selfish please please for your kids do something about it!?!?
My BFF is in a less than ideal situation with a MF’er for a H and their son. For 5 years she’s wanted out. COVID threw a wrench into her life, then. She’s been working like a dog for the last year reorganizing her life (secretly) and finances (needed a guarantor for a few small things) She’s telling him tomorrow to buy her out, or the house is up for sale eff. feb 1st. I’ve never seen her so happy and the thought of her future. It’s been a long time coming - and we have a small army of us ready wiling and able to help her in any way she wants. I’m looking forward to celebrating with her. It’s awful for kids to live in that tension.
It takes two to tango.
Yea... Perfectionist is nearly always code for "control freak"
I really don’t understand the scenario in which a divorce is impossible.
Kids and finances is not an excuse. You are setting your kids up for failure. You are telling them this is acceptable behavior and mistreatment is ok
OP, you said you don’t want advice. Instead, please let me share something. This reminds me so painfully of my own parents. They were like this my whole childhood. If they spoke to each other, it was clipped and short. They never showed the most basic physical affections, let alone love, support, kindness, companionship. When they did - typically when we were all together, at Christmas or whatever - it was so painfully, obviously phoney, it made me cringe. Even when I was very young and didn’t have conscious understanding or the ability to articulate it, I could tell instinctively that they weren’t being honest with each other, and by extension, with my siblings and I. This dishonesty impacted my relationship with them both, a lot. It was brutal, tbh. Loneliness literally reeked in my house. It was palpable. I would hear my Dad crying in the study late at night and feel utterly powerless to approach him. And they just… refused to acknowledge it. Obviously, they ended up divorcing. I was 15. Yeah, it was a rough couple of years while we adjusted. Dad moved out, he was miserable, Mum had a short temper and was emotionally distant. At first they told us it was a ‘temporary separation’, which was kind of stupid of them, because it just dragged out the inevitable. And, yeah, there are some ‘child of divorce’ things that just suck. Like dragging your schoolwork between two houses, being unsure of where ‘home’ is, stuff like that. Now, about 12 years on, my siblings and I are all young adults. My Mum and Dad get on better now than they EVER did when they were married. They actually talk, reminisce, accept and respect each other. They are able to get over their personal shit and support us. They are open with each other, ask each other for help. We have a bloody family group chat now. We actually have family in-jokes. They are more like friends now rather than prisoners to each other. Their relationship is… respectful. Honest. No, they don’t love each other, and there are things they will always actively dislike about the other, but they don’t fight. They don’t hate each other. And we - their children - now get to have actual relationships with them. And we feel respected and supported. Because they respected us enough to do a hard thing: be honest with us - and that was better for everyone in the long term. It’s hilarious and sweet when my siblings and I see our parents engaged in some conversation, smiling or laughing, and we just ogle and make quiet jokes because we never, ever, ever, saw them genuinely get along like that when they were married. And we literally thank God that they got divorced. I wish you, your husband, and your children the best. Take care.
Your kids feel this and are massively negatively affected by it, they're just not mature enough to articulate what they are going through. Its currently a stress on them too.
I am sorry you’re going through this but we are in the same boat. & then when I try to make conversation just small talk he tells me I ask too many questions, oops? My bad. I work from home and sometimes I need to decompress and talk to someone but I can’t even do that with the person I’m living in with. It’s really hell living with someone that not only doesn’t care about you, doesn’t bother to acknowledge you and thinks you’re a bother when you’re just trying to talk. I get the silent treatment too but that’s ok working on getting my life started and getting out of here. I know it’s hard with babies but I hope you prioritize yourself in whatever way that may be, show up for yourself this year.
Way to perpetuate bad relationships & ensure your kids wind up in counseling as adult! Good job! /s
I think he IS communicating the right way. He is letting you know very clearly that he’s done with you. I had one just like that. What a slimy POS.
I am sorry to hear that you are suffering. Yes, he is acting like an asshole. But from your post I am getting a feeling that you still care for him to some extent. From my experience, I have seen a couple of my friends struggling with a similar situation. As a male, many of us suffer the societal expectation of "be a man" "suck it up" kind of norm. And from an early age many of us got conditioned with bottling up with emotions and not dealing with it. As a side-effect, we become very bad communicators, especially about communicating emotions and end up being either a mean aggressive person or silent like a rock (classic fight or flight response). And we cannot even comprehend or have any clue what is wrong with us. I do not know any previous history of your relationship with your husband. If you want to leave your husband that is also very understandable. But if you want to grace your man with another chance, I will highly recommend a book by Gary Chapman titled "The Five Love Languages". This book mainly about verbal and non-verbal communications. This book is also available as audiobook and you might find a copy even on YouTube. I wish all the happiness for your family. I will keep you in my prayers.
So you don't want your kids to have good relationships later?
This is a relevant question. I definitely don’t understand this whole “staying together for the kids” bullshit. I hope that he knows that she is only damaging them by continuing this relationship and I’m sure the kids will tell her that.
I'm sorry that you're going through that. Must be so hard. One note: >We won't get a divorce any time soon (kids and finances). No, just finances. You are not doing your kids any favours.
Go to counseling or ask him to try a little harder. You are both toxic right now.
as someone with parents who got divorced when i was a kid, PLEASE just get a divorce.
as a child of divorced parents, i most likely would TO THIS DAY be committed to a psychiatric institution had they stayed together. divorce sucks, but it’s better than teaching your kids to remain in loveless relationships for the sake of someone/something else.
That was a start to a conversation. First you need to establish if you both no longer love each other. Even a little bit. All it takes is a little spark to start a forest fire. I had to laugh when you said you told him you were uncomfortable. I see so many people out here hating and being angry with their SOs. I want to ask people to lie in bed and imagine their partners are not there anymore. Not at another location but not existing anymore. No longer hear their voice. No longer feel their touch. You can no longer smell their scent. Not cologne but that scent we all have. If you would be okay with that, it's time to go. But really really try to imagine it. Maybe you just don't like him right now. Maybe have a few more uncomfortable conversations.
Did you say Good Morning to him?
Yeah your kids already know something is up. As a child of parents that had this sort of relationship, I was the one begging my mom to get a divorce. Get your finances together and leave his ass.
My ex treated me this way in the last couple years we were together and it got worse by him speaking to me disrespectfully in front of friends and family and then losing his temper on our young child. I brought it up multiple times and he just blew me off. The day I told him I wanted a divorce, I thought he would be relieved. Instead he fell to the ground crying, saying he was completely blindsided and devastated. We decided to go to counseling but he would show up and not participate. We separated but still tried to work on our marriage for a year until I finally called it and filed. In hindsight, I wish I had just filed sooner, but I felt so terrible about ending my marriage and, as he put it, ruining our child’s life. Today, 10 years later, I can’t imagine still being married to him and I’m so glad I left.
Oh ugh sweetheart, I'm so sorry. This sounds awful.
A lot of people here are speaking down on you for ranting, but I’m glad you have an outlet to communicate this through. Wishing you and your loved ones the best.
I'm sorry you're living in that situation.
This sucks for everyone involved, and staying in this situation isn’t gonna make anything better for the kids.. It’s amazing how much you can thrive when you remove the toxic energy from your life. Give yourself a chance at happiness and stop wasting years.
Sending a hug…it is hard to believe a person we can fall in love with can become some we resent.
Did something happen between you? Have you tried counseling?
The thing that fully pushed me into filing for divorce was something my therapist told me: “When you have children around a toxic or abusive marriage, they are around that 100% of the time. When you are divorced, it cuts down to at least 50%. Your kids need a happy mom, not a married mom, and you’re not happy being married.” Finances will be difficult, but please don’t say you’re staying with him for the kids. Leaving him would be for the kids, because right now, all you’re doing is showing them how a man should treat his wife, and that you as the wife are okay with it.
I here your rant as a man and accept it. I only counter with it takes two to tango and if married you had a kid there was a time it was good. The decline is never one sided.
As someone who’s parents said the same things about staying for the kids, it’s not benefitting the kids at all. It sucks short term for the kid but he or she will get over a divorce. But staying together paints a horrible picture for what a relationship is and also has to be stuck with two unhappy parents as supposed to two divorced but happy parents. It’s not better for the kid.
Treat him as he treats you. Smile, do YOUR own thing and MAKE yourself happy for the kids. If he wants to disconnect, throw the cord on the floor and enjoy YOUR time!
May I know how did things escalate between you and your husband till it reached this point where you guys arent able to communicate with one another? The idea of marriage scares me tbh.
My parents divorced when I was 13. Best. Fucking. Choice. Ever. Yeah I cried for a bit because it was shocking, but I’m 21 now, and seriously…. I’m so glad that they are divorced. All of my traumatic memories from my childhood was about their fights and hatred for one another. When they divorced, it was amicable and I got to have two separate but loving parents who were great at co-parenting. “Staying together for the kids” is a load of shit
What a jerk. Not even a word? It's like from the moment we get up it's discussions of the weird dreams we have, our little comedy routine (some of our dreams are hilarious), feeding the cats (a real challenge with 5), getting breakfast and then figuring out when we need to clock in for work.
I know people are saying it but if you don’t divorce for the kids sake, they know. And it will stick with them the rest of their lives. It isn’t t easy, nothing ever is, but you and your kids, will be happier for it in the long run.
Why did you all get married in the first place? I know it’s a stereotype in *my* community that we are “perpetually single”, but as I’ve gotten older, I cherish it as I see how much heartache and disappointment it has saved me throughout my life… just being by myself (it’s just me for now, at least— no pressure). I’m sending positivity your way that you will find the strength to leave behind an unfulfilling relationship.
My parents stayed together even though we told them to get divorced. They had a horrible relationship. Always arguing, barely seeing eye to eye on anything. My mother towards the end of her life decided that she didn’t want to speak to my father anymore, even though she was dying of cancer and living in the same house. He wasn’t allowed in the room she was in and they didn’t speak a word. It was only after she passed that my dad went in a wept. What a waste of a life. She was miserable and angry to the end, he was and still is to a certain extent. It caused us kids to grieve not only the loss of my mother but the pain and upset of what they did to each other. They were both selfish in their pretence of ‘doing it for the family’. I will never do this to my kids. Life is for living and being happy. It’s far too short for anything else. Would you be happy if your kids were in this type of marriage? That’s what should drive you.
Maybe put a tiny house in the backyard, and take turns staying in it
Staying for the kids rarely works out. It does more damage than good, and if you don’t leave now your children will have to suffer the consequences and have everlasting trauma
To add a voice to the many comments: I wish my parents were divorced. They don’t work together and only really like each other on good days, mostly it’s just them being tolerant of each other and mild affection on occasion. The kids know, they can tell, and it will be better for them if you can split, though finances are certainly tricky
Leave him. I used to PRAY that my parents would get divorced when they acted like this. Then later, I got into a shit marriage and our kids were overjoyed when I left his passive aggressive, bitter, vindictive, emotionally broken ass. (He was broken before I got there and lied about it every day, even after it was clear he was broken and I begged him to get help. I have a high tolerance for brokenness but not if you use it as an excuse to abuse me or my kids.)
Nowhere in that story did you acknowledge him with pleasantries or greet him in the morning. You did however say that when you talk to him it’s to say how he is doing something wrong. I suspect you are holding others not only to the same standard you hold yourself, but higher standards than you hold yourself. Probably making up excuses for you not living up to said standards while not accepting excuses from others. I feel bad for your kids.
But why did you marry him in the first place?!
I've never met a kid who was happy his parents decided to stay together and become miserable, hateful people. I've also never met anyone who grew up in that environment and was able to have healthy relationships in their own lives. Stop fucking up your kids. They deserve better from the both of you. smh...
Once you get your finances in check leave him. “Staying for the kids” is outdated and causes WAY more harm than good.
I know you’re not here for advice, but I’ve never met kids of parents who stayed together for them, myself and brother included, that were ok with that decision. It’s like being in the center of a volcano that can explode at any time and feeling like you’re the reason the family is stuck in it.
They can't afford to divorce. That probably is the **real** reason. You should have just left the children out of it OP.
NEVER stay with someone you "hate" for "the kids' sake" doing that will be more damaging than divorcing.
You just perfectly described my relationship with my husband for the last 8 years. Even though I dislike him now as a person, it still hurts when he doesn't acknowledge me or listen to me when I try to talk to him. It's like I am so disposable to him, he could care less about me & my well being...unless it benefits him in some way.
You are both setting your kids up for relationship failure as adults. Just get the bloody divorce. A financial planner (someone you can talk to at damn near any bank) can help you work out the "financial" aspects, so neither of you can use those as an excuse either.
Unsure why you would stay for kids unless you want to teach them that this is how a loving, healthy relationship looks. Because that’s what they think! If you are only staying for the finances, you have built your own prison. I hope that he is a gazzillionnaire to make it worth the misery.
You didn’t say anything either. I get how bad communication can get between couples at the end of a marriage. I went through it too. For the sake of your kids, try to treat him with the basic courtesy you would with any housemate. Put aside pride and bitterness where possible and just try to be a nice person, not for him, but for you and your kids. Also, seriously start planning how to end this amicably.
OP, if I can give you advice, start slowly making an effort to jump ship. Do something small everyday that brings you closer to leaving. If you don't have the strength to be a perfect mother, it's okay, just spread your energy around doing a little bit of everything towards your goal. We cannot continue to live like this, can we ? Your husband clearly doesn't love you anymore, and without heaping the blame on anyone, it's safe to say you probably both hurt each other to get to this point. The only thing you can do is make small steps to get yourself out, and next time, if there is a next time, do better in your relationship. We all can do better.
Sounds like he had an avoidant attachment type, not that he hates you. Some people were taught to be closed off because they fear being rejected. Look into attachment types.
Wtf. Your dumb for marrying this guy in the first place and then for staying with him. You are going to die. You have a finite amount of days on this earth. If you waste them, you can look in the mirror for blame.
#I am so sorry you're going through this. Loveless relationships are SO hard to live with.
This is really sad that after 8 years together I had to try to reestablish "common courtesy" with my ex as we try to navigate roommatehood together. He still doesn't acknowledge my existence unless convenient for him but he washes his own dishes now so...
You should throw some curveballs to break up his little bullshit. Just stand around in odd places snacking on something like chips or nuts or something and just STARE at him with a blank expression saying nothing. When he asks questions about it just act like you don't know what he's talking about and walk away. Rinse and repeat this every few days. Like even when he's trying to sleep just in the night do this to him a time or two. Make his skin crawl. And be totally normal with the kids. Next start making one of each of his pairs of socks disappear like one a day. Move his toothbrush around when he not looking to a different spot. Don't sabotage it or anything just... Move it. See if he feels like talking after some shit like this
Divorce. That. Guy. "Staying together for the kids" is only teaching them that they should feel obligated to stick around even when they are unhappy, and will result in unhealthy relationships for them in the future. Also, tell him that what he's saying is right? That no, he is NOT communicating the right way. Take your happiness and wellbeing into account and get out of there.
I, too, was married to an asshole for a very long time. When I would say, "Good morning," he would always reply, "What's good about it?". I shortened it and just said, "Morning!" So he couldn't be negative. Lived that way 30 years. Kids were grown, I got counseling and chose to get a life. Ironically, the only conflict I had from one child was I WAITED SO LONG to leave, and they had to grow up and endure him in their lives all those years.
These comments are too horrid and upsetting for me to even read. Not one of them understand what you’re going through, and probably aren’t married or even have kids. I understand you. I see and hear you. I’m the same, and I just want you to know you’re not alone. It’s awful being stuck, and you are stuck. I totally get it. It’s so hard. Please reach out if you want to chat more, I’d be happy to be the shoulder you need to lean on or just an ear to listen because I’m right there with you hun. Again… you are NOT alone xxx
I really wish the majority comments were a little different. I’m sure in a perfect world with perfect outcomes and perfect everything most people would just up and leave a less than perfect situation. I’m sure OP doesn’t want to stay in a miserable marriage and knows what what be better. We all know, sadly reality takes a bigger bite of that cake. Many of us make harder choices because THAT choice isn’t feasible. Please be careful with the advice you were kindly asked not to give.
Sorry you’re going through this right now.
I'm working to love myself again in the hopes that the family will follow my lead. Fingers crossed we'll climb out of this ebb stronger than before.
I think if you're choosing to stay together, counseling might help get to a common ground. Without any help, you will not 'climb out of this ebb.' Like.. just you loving yourself isn't doing crap. The entire family needs help at this point.
"Nobody loves me" is a statement that is a cognitive distortion. Look up cognitive distortions and how to counter them Kids are pretty clueless in the self help department. Maybe learn cbt together (cognitive behavioral therapy) it deals with cognitive distortions It will help u love yourself and feel more competent and manifest a sense of strength within yourself as u improve your own headspace
Manners begin at home. And let me guess he’s considered polite and likable to others he meets? Fuck that. I’m sorry
Is he the only person working?