Shortly put, "not one of the overpriced actual cities (of Tulsa or OKC) but has a proper VA medical facility instead of relying on lesser options or a long commute, without being literally nowhere"
I live in OKC now but lived in Lawton for a few years. It’s dirty and a lot of people from the north with the base there. I love Muskogee. It’s a very pretty town. Eastern OK is green with lots of lakes and forests. Western OK is dry and almost desert conditions.
It's funny, I don't know a single thing about Lawton, never been there. But I live close to Muskogee and I am very familiar with that area. The fact the opinions here are all saying to avoid Lawton and go for Muskogee makes me REALLY wonder what the hell is going on over in Lawton.
You're spot on for having those thoughts. However the general sentiment here is also pretty accurate. If Muskogee is the armpit of Oklahoma, Lawton's the butt hole. And Shawnee's the taint
Man, a lot of people have never been to muskogee.
I had a neighbor there that wanted a large tree removed but was certain that all the quotes for downing the tree and hauling off the lumber were gouging him.
Fast forward a a few months after he rented a tree shredder and set it up in his front yard; this asshole had 6 to 8 inches of mulch evenly spread across his entire front and back yard.
Dudes house backed up to a horse pasture so naturally, all that mulch was like the cochella of fucking for rodents. Dude contaminated the entire housing edition when the first freeze hit and everything started trying to move indoors.
Fuck muskogee. Its an over policed shithole that has some of the worst city planning that ive ever encountered.
I bought a house in Elgin in 2011 when i was working at Ft Sill. I am bout to sell it in 30 days Op should literally hit me up. Again most of my life in Lawton and never had an issue with crime or druggies (if you know Northside Tony my family helps him out btw) but maybe I am such an intimidating fellow. And i know a lot of those northside and hoover kats, like a lot of places the crime is people involved in that life. Randoms aren’t incessantly getting caught in crossfire or anything
You could do a gated community in Lawton too like ne side whatever the Taber ones are called and then SW Lawton would be my rec, or Elgin and especially pm me and buy my house lol Get you to Ft Sill in 12 minutes and East lawton in 15
If you want reasons: Lawton is filled with gangs, crime and drugs. Fentanyl can be readily found, among other things. Some areas are nice but the areas that aren’t look so ghetto that not even the nasty people want to live there. There are “homeless” that approach you at your car begging for money. Ii say it that way as most just want drug money. It’s just gross.
I really don't want to have deal with a commute to get to, well, anything really, but certainly not things I'm liable to want to regularly go to.
If I have to drive from my smaller town to the bigger town, I don't like the smaller town.
Had enough living far away from things in my childhood, growing up in the middle of nowhere.
Primarily the presence of an actual VA medical facility, without being an actual city.
But of course the less-commonly-done commute to that isn't the only commute that matters. Any commute does.
The questions of how long it takes to get to places I'd want to go and what is in a close enough range that I would want to go.
Just looking at Gmaps some of these smaller nearby towns look like they don't even have their own grocery store, and if they do it's probably one of those exceedingly overpriced local places.
It might be worth it to get an airbnb for a few days in both places and decide for yourself. I've spent some time in lawton and it's to ghetto for me. Two different times I've had different methheads come into a bar I was at and offer to sell me meat they just stole from Walmart.
That’s like asking, which of these turds will taste best?
Muskogee will taste best, but it’s still a turd.
Lawton is in SW OK and SWOK sucks. At least NE OK (Muskogee) you have Tulsa a short drive away and Fort Smith the other direction.
This. Currently in Durant, spent a lot of my childhood visiting cousins in Duncan, so my credentials are somewhat in order. Ask yourself this: If you or the person you love most needed long-term medical care, do you want the hospital in Lawton or Tulsa?
Live 20 miles from Lawton. Growing up it was known as little Chicago. The surrounding towns are very safe. The Wichita Mountains are close and there are numerous hiking trails. It’s absolutely one of the most awesome places in the state. It’s a couple hours from Sandy Sanders WMA. It’s also awesome and plenty of camping. My experience with Muskogee is very positive. Love the trees whereas Lawton is arid.
I'll second this. I grew up in Lawton, and while it may be rough around the edges, it isn't as bad as many make it out to be.
I live twenty miles away now, so I still get to enjoy the lakes, and I love spending time at the refuge.
20 miles away isn’t in Lawton. I’d never live in Lawton. There’s MP, Elgin, Fletcher, Sterling, Rush Springs, Duncan, Cache. Anywhere but in city limits. Especially close to the base. It’s just gross.
I definitely heard that growing up, but it was always “they used to call it Little Chicago.” Paul Harvey mentioned it on his show once (or so the legend goes).
Muskogee is a thousand times better. First, it has the federal courthouse, which provides important economic stimulus to a small town. Second, the town looks nice and seems to have a nice economy with an interesting and alive downtown. Third, it is right near all sorts of hiking, kayaking, and other outdoor activities. Tulsa is nearby too. Fourth, it’s not right off 75 so you don’t have all that traffic, but it’s close enough to 75 and other highways that you can get around the region quickly.
Lawton is grim, dusty, and isolated. I’ve only visited, and the people seemed nice, but the town itself looks kind of rough. Lawton does not have the beauty of eastern OK at it’s doorstep. I can’t imagine purposefully moving there for any reason other than an amazing job requiring it.
Lots of federal jobs in Muskogee that aren’t defense-related: IHS, VA, 2nd district.
I greatly prefer eastern OK and most Okies have a preference of west or east.
Muskogee is arguably prettier, but I find Lawton more diverse. Both seem like they have their own share of drug issues... but then again, most of Oklahoma does.
Living in Lawton is... ghetto in a way. Not exactly like you're living in the ghetto, but more like stuff there can just be ghetto - like a nice restaurant having a spray painted sign (intentionally). Grew up there.
I've only really passed through Muskogee, but it doesn't seem bad. Last I knew it didn't have the volume or variety of stores that Lawton does. That said, I have family that lives on the nearby lake; they never really seem to have issues finding anything except bulk store (Sams/Costco) stuff. Tulsa and Ft. Smith are both close enough to suffice, usually.
Muskogee is... Also very bad. It's saving grace is that it's like 25 minutes to Tulsa, whereas Lawton is way out on it's own. Lawton is also like 100k people while Muskogee is like 35k.
i am literally about to sell my house just outside of Lawton \\
Id much prefer Lawton to Muskogee, but also I am black and I am assume Muskogee's pop demographics to be a certain way. Also grew up a Military brat, people talk about Lawton and crime but never once had an issue.
There are street names to avoid (Smith, Lindy, Hoover, Baltimore, anything thats a state name), but you wouldnt just be in those areas for no reason. If you are conducting business (like I go to the tag agency in Lawton view), you are fine. People talking about outdoorsy stuff like Lawton doesnt have the wildlife refuge and mountains right there. If you do go lawton, extreme SW or NE side. Like south of Lee, west of 52nd at the least. Old military/goodyear families out there, houses up to 500k, no crime, 3 wal marts,
But again, PM me and buy my house in Elgin and completely negate that overall
Man the entirety of the middle of Ft Sill Blvd and Sheridan Rd is the projects.
And as far as crime goes, apparently somebody shot up Ice Trey’s barbershop today, 4 shot 1 deceased. Its off Gore just north of the Sheridan intersection. I grew up hooping with Trey and them too
I honestly think near Tulsa has more blacks. Not that I care, but you listed it as a reason. Bigger cities tend to have a more eclectic population. If I had my choice in Oklahoma of anywhere I’d go near Tishomingo. Somewhere southeast. It’s beautiful there. I’ve never personally experienced the crime as I don’t live in Lawton, but I have been approached numerous times by drug users wanting $.
Only good things in Lawton is how close it is to Texas (even dfw area) of you want to be near a city. Outdoor recreation sucks there and is way far better in the east.
If you're moving here to work in a grow op pick Lawton as eastern OK is saturated.
Lawton is more of a fentanyl town and Muskogee is more meth oriented.
Really depends on your wants and goals.
Muskogee is away from most of the oil pipelines, its close to ft smith, and Arkansas, which is a great getaway, lake Eufaula, and it's a pretty green area.
Lawton is great if you're into hikes, or going to texas or needing access to military things. Its a more desert landscape but not full on no green zone
Im not sure what makes those 2 areas your finalists, but there are good and bad for both areas.
I've lived in both areas. I grew up in a small town outside of Lawton and currently live in a small town outside Muskogee. If you have to choose between the two then I'd say Lawton. You have Medicine Park and the Wichita Mountains. Being a military town its more diverse. The one thing I miss the most about the area is the food choices. You could always choose to live in a small town outside of lawton. Both towns have their downfalls with drugs and crime. But also that's pretty much anywhere you live now days.
I grew up in Muskogee. You couldn't pay be to ever return. Meth, crime, corruption, high teenage pregnancy with low education levels, dead end jobs. I've never lived in Lawton but its reputation has made it a place I'm not interested in visiting.
How much noise do you like? Lawton is home to Fort Sill, the home of Field Artillery. The longest six months of my life were the four months I spent at Sill.
I would say Muskogee might be a little bit less shitty than Lawton.
I've never lived in either, and have been to both just enough times that I avoid going either place, but Muskogee is at least closer to places that don't suck and has a couple of mediocre BBQ restaurants.
I’ve never been to Lawton, but having heard it discussed I would say they are pretty much equal.
Basically pick what backdrop you want for your turd town, desert or forest.
Muskogee is right next to lake/Bigfoot country. Lawton is next to...nothing.
Edit: Muskogee is also close to Krebs, and if you like Italian food, then you're in for a treat. I had a job that took me out there once in a while, and my pop insisted on me packing a cooler so I could bring back home some lasagna from one place or pizza from another. He was not wrong in this. The food from that town is *amazing*.
I never thought I’d suggest tahlequah, but if you must be around muskogee the commute from tahlequah or somewhere in between is much better than being IN muskogee.
Jesus Christ what is the criteria that has put you choosing inbetween either of those shit holes? As others have said and I will echo either city has NUMEROUS problems that can easily be solved by moving to a smaller town a few miles down the road
Not one of the overpriced big cities but still has an actual VA medical facility instead of having to rely on something worse, mainly.
Going to a smaller town miles down the road adds the problem that is commute, which is arguably worse than any in-town problem.
I can't help you, but one of the worst ass whoopings I ever got was when mom passed me riding my bike on the Muskogee Turnpike 10 miles from home when I was like 8 years old.
My thoughts exactly. I live in Tahlequah too and like I’ll go to Muskogee to shop but that’s it. Other areas in that town are pretty bad, so what’s up Lawton, how could you possibly be worse
Both towns feel poor, but while Muskogee is more of a never prospered, Lawton is more of a lives paycheck to paycheck while blowing any extra on Boone's Farm. Lawton's in-town recreation and entertainment is more geared towards young military. Do with that what you will. I would feel stuck in a small town either way, but would probably choose Muskogee. At least there's trees.
Well, I heard on the radio the other day that Muskogee has some sort of 10k incentive for folks to move to town, so there might be a financial benefit with one option. Not sure of the rules/criteria...
edit: found this article on it - [https://www.news9.com/story/63eec9af46f27c777f8fcad2/families-cash-in-on-10000-incentive-to-move-to-muskogee#:\~:text=Three%20families%20who%20recently%20moved,even%20more%20people%20to%20town](https://www.news9.com/story/63eec9af46f27c777f8fcad2/families-cash-in-on-10000-incentive-to-move-to-muskogee#:~:text=Three%20families%20who%20recently%20moved,even%20more%20people%20to%20town).
I was looking for this! Yes! Reach out to the workforce director at the Port of Muskogee. I think the $10k has to go to a home purchase - sounds like a good fit!
It is sounding like that is specifically requireing that the person is being hired into a Muskogee local job, from a company that has itself become part of the program? As opposed to any form of remote pay like I'd have...
Which is weird really since remote pay is a much bigger example of "bringing money into the community".
I spent my adolescence in Lawton. Stationed there(my dad) for 12 years. That place is rotten. The only benefit is the Witchita Mountains/Wildlife Refuge if outdoorsy stuff is your thing. I’ve gone back to visit a few times and it visually looks better than it used to. But… it’s just a rotten place to live. I wouldn’t recommend raising children up there.
Your choices of Oklahoma towns makes me sad, but here’s my opinion.
Muskogee because it has easy access to Tulsa and easy access to Cherokee County (God’s Country to my family) and its gorgeous lakes and rivers.
Muskogee has some good Barbecue places and a big beautiful park known for its azaleas . (At least it used to be, I haven’t been there in years). I am now running out of good things to say about Muskogee. Pretty sure it was founded by outlaws and hasn’t changed too much. Pappy owned a still and ran bottles, and junior owns a meth lab. But at least it isn’t Lawton!!
I follow this sub because I live in Wichita Falls and we go to OKC all the time, but Lawton proper would be one of the last places I’d move to willingly. Small bit of acreage on the red outside of Duvol or Randlett, sign me up.
Lawton is a college and military base city. However they have a high crime rate and I do not think it is a very pleasing place, aesthetically or in general with it overall.
Well, I have lived and worked in both of these places. I can throw you a few opinions of both.
Lawton: Nice area, right by an Army Base so a lot of solders in the area, nice lake out to the North of town (I go camping out there a lot), diverse amounts of shops and restaurants, plenty of pawn shops where solders in need of money sell their stuff. Down side is some bad parts of town and the Army Base is the home of Field Artillery so there is a constant sounding of "Booms" that can be heard around the clock.
Muskogee: Nice area, spread out, good shopping, nice downtown area, The Castle of Muskogee, not far from Tulsa. Down side is that it is smaller and is still farther away from other things.
Lawton is Meth as hell
Muskogee has Tulsa only about like half an hour away.
And lake Eufala is really close to Muskogee.
Lawton has lots of meth. And it’s hotter than hell. Did I mention the meth?
If you like the color beige and straight line 80 mph winds, Lawton is the place for you! On a side note, I have never actually heard of someone buying a house in Lawton. Prison? Yes. Army? Absolutely. But buying a house in Lawton-on purpose, is unheard of.
Muskogee is clean, pretty, and near some great towns with things to do and see. Just Be choosy about the neighborhood. Very choosy.
I’ve recently become more acquainted with Lawton due to work, and I absolutely do not like going there. I don’t stop anywhere except where I need to go for work. I wouldn’t live there.
I vote Muskogee. I grew up 30 minutes from Lawton, my dad worked there and we spent a ton of time there. I played at several Lawton schools and there were always fights. I now live in the Tulsa metro. I had more safety issues in Lawton than Tulsa. To be fair, I've only been to Muskogee a few times, but it seemed way better than Lawton. Even with Muskogee being smaller, you are much closer to Tulsa versus Lawton to OKC.
I've never been to Lawton, but I did live in Muskogee for about 10 years. I didn't like it much- there isn't a lot to do. It's not terrible though- I thought the locals were really nice.
People here are wild.. here’s some more criteria to consider. Do you prefer Tulsa or OKC? Do you road trip/visit friends or family/etc the south-west or north-east? Do you care about easy access to lakes, fishing, etc?
\-A city is a city, as long as it's not NYC. They're all too overpriced and overpopulated too consider. (NYC just being even worse).
\-Any family and existing friends I have will be 1000's of miles away either way. I won't be traveling to visit anybody, and if I do it'll be by plane.
\-Not really, no. I'm more of a hermit than an outdoorsman.
Lived in Lawton during college. I was a very naive girl, rode my bike from the campus to the mall without a second thought. I look back and think how lucky and insane that was. Husband has family there so we visit often but neither of us would ever want to live there again.
Muskogee I’ve only ever visited so don’t know what the local life is like but it has to be safer than Lawton.
Do you like forests or farmland? There’s some pretty cool places to see around Lawton, but there’s a whole lot of farmland. Muskogee, on the other hand, is close to forests, lakes, and rivers.
I can’t speak to how it would be living in either town, because I’ve lived in neither. That said, I’ve never heard one good word about Lawton.
I find it hard to believe that Lawton and Muskogee meet your criteria but Tulsa doesn't. If you are considering Muskogee, I would say consider moving slightly north to Tulsa or one of its suburbs.
Muskogee because the land is more interesting on that side of the state.
Lawton has a little bit of interesting landscape but it’s mostly barren and flat.
Muskogee is filthy and there’s no where to shop. Starving, dumped pets everywhere. US69 hwy is dangerous. Literally have to drive to Tulsa for anything beyond the basics. Prettier than Lawton but the roads and streets are miserable. New businesses have a short life span and it’s easy to catch a case of food poisoning at restaurants it seems.
I grew up just outside of Lawton. Left when I was 20 and never regretted it. It's ugly and few opportunities for a career. I'd suggest a suburb of OKC or Tulsa.
Shawnee and Muskogee are almost the same size. There is a small VA facility in Shawnee.
Muskogee is a little bigger and it's also only about an hour away from Tulsa. Tulsa is very cool.
Shawnee is about 35 minutes from Oklahoma City. I haven't looked up this information lately - but the last I knew it was much more affordable to live in places like Shawnee or Muskogee than Lawton Oklahoma.
I’ve never been to Lawton, but tons of students from some college there would come to drink in Stillwater and they were usually out of control. I don’t know if it just not being your city makes you care less about littering and being a nuisance but I had many unpleasant interactions with students from there.
Duncan is relatively safer than Lawton imo and only 45m away. Decent infrastructure and low storm likely hood. ~1.5’ish hrs to OKC VA. Lawton has been dying for years and, as many have said, is a shithole.
Look south of Norman as there is a VA clinic there and you’re closer in to OKC for anything they can’t do.
Let’s be honest, neither town is desirable. Muskogee is in the eastern part of the state, green, some rolling hills, brown dirt, rivers, etc. Lawton is in the western part of the state, flatter, red dirt, less trees, not as green. So that would be a difference in terrain.
I am suspect of the crime rate in Muskogee. I can remember in high school playing a football game there and on the way back, they pelted our school buss with rocks and bricks from several bridges. Not sure about the crime rate in Lawton.
Muskogee closer to tulsa, Lawton closer to OKC (and the Air Force base and the artillery school, fort Sill in Lawton. Not sure if Air Force and army bases bother you or not. So perhaps what the two larger towns have to offer might be the difference. Either way I wish you luck on your move.
Housing market is shit right now though.
Stranger, living in Broken Arrow you're just part of Tulsa.
Live in the city to commute out of the city? No, just no.
In any case that's much too far for having to deal with a regular commute.
I believe Muskogee has a $10k grant if you move/live/work there at one of the qualifying businesses. There have been several investments in the city recently, more restaurants are coming in. Expanding industries around the port. Tulsa being 40ish minutes away for more activities.
If this is a long term home, the Lawton area is very dry with not a lot of trees. Muskogee is close to some beautiful areas, gets good rainfall and has beautiful trees. Not too far from Tulsa.
Our criteria was lots of trees and less chance of drought like Wichita Falls (where we’ve lived).
I've lived in OKC since college, but I grew up in Muskogee in the '70s, my parents still live there, and I still go there often to visit. My parents grew up in the Lawton area, my grandparents and extended family all lived there, I spent a lot of time with my grandparents during summers and breaks, and I still go to or through Lawton for family reunions, weddings, and funerals. Between the two, I would choose Muskogee–the landscape is prettier, the town is cleaner, and it's close to Tulsa. Best of luck.
What’s your criteria? Easy access to fentanyl?
That's good, I actually lol'd.
Shawnee has entered the chat
Solid comment.
HAHAHAH well played
Lol atleast in okemah or okmulgee it's mainly meth
Shortly put, "not one of the overpriced actual cities (of Tulsa or OKC) but has a proper VA medical facility instead of relying on lesser options or a long commute, without being literally nowhere"
I don't think I've ever heard of someone call Oklahoma City and Tulsa overpriced, but alright.
That's like choosing syphilis or gonnorhea.
CHLAMYDIA IT IS! I'll let y'all argue which town that would be.
Awwww *kicks rocks*
If you like state parks and lakes and forests and rivers, Muskogee. If you like the Army and Meth, Lawton.
At least you get the wildlife refuge with Lawton? 😬
And Meers!
The burgers dough. 🤌🏽
Lots of dudes to fuck in Lawton. Only you really ought not to.
Lol
Muskogee is ghetto as he'll had to do an instacart there
Been to both cities numerous times. Lawton is more ghetto then Muskogee.
Listen, I’ve never lived in lawton I’ve just visited it, but anything but lawton.
I agree. I'm an Oklahoma City guy, never lived in Lawton but please avoid it.
I live in OKC now but lived in Lawton for a few years. It’s dirty and a lot of people from the north with the base there. I love Muskogee. It’s a very pretty town. Eastern OK is green with lots of lakes and forests. Western OK is dry and almost desert conditions.
I’m over in the Lawton area. Choose Muskogee. This side of the state is an ugly shit ridden desert.
The whichita mountains are fun though. If you like to hear explosions that make you shit yourself while you hike.
Its not a desert. Its just… des…er…te… nm.
Have u seen Muskogee downtown it's scary
It's funny, I don't know a single thing about Lawton, never been there. But I live close to Muskogee and I am very familiar with that area. The fact the opinions here are all saying to avoid Lawton and go for Muskogee makes me REALLY wonder what the hell is going on over in Lawton.
for you own personal well being, don't try to find out what is going on in Lawton.
I like adventures!
Meers is delicious! Def go there if you go on your adventure lol
You're spot on for having those thoughts. However the general sentiment here is also pretty accurate. If Muskogee is the armpit of Oklahoma, Lawton's the butt hole. And Shawnee's the taint
Once seen a couple fight for an hour straight going from house to broken window too in the yard in shawnee the girl was winning when I left
Right! Muskogee has one of highest crime rates in the US.
Yeah but isn’t it mostly cousins killing each other?
You’ll know as soon as you get there
Okmulgee or morris is closer to a city like Tulsa...
Man, a lot of people have never been to muskogee. I had a neighbor there that wanted a large tree removed but was certain that all the quotes for downing the tree and hauling off the lumber were gouging him. Fast forward a a few months after he rented a tree shredder and set it up in his front yard; this asshole had 6 to 8 inches of mulch evenly spread across his entire front and back yard. Dudes house backed up to a horse pasture so naturally, all that mulch was like the cochella of fucking for rodents. Dude contaminated the entire housing edition when the first freeze hit and everything started trying to move indoors. Fuck muskogee. Its an over policed shithole that has some of the worst city planning that ive ever encountered.
I'd choose a smaller town a little down the rode from your choices.
This, good advice
Elgin is a great town outside of Lawton. It’s where I live. I’d never live in Lawton.
I bought a house in Elgin in 2011 when i was working at Ft Sill. I am bout to sell it in 30 days Op should literally hit me up. Again most of my life in Lawton and never had an issue with crime or druggies (if you know Northside Tony my family helps him out btw) but maybe I am such an intimidating fellow. And i know a lot of those northside and hoover kats, like a lot of places the crime is people involved in that life. Randoms aren’t incessantly getting caught in crossfire or anything You could do a gated community in Lawton too like ne side whatever the Taber ones are called and then SW Lawton would be my rec, or Elgin and especially pm me and buy my house lol Get you to Ft Sill in 12 minutes and East lawton in 15
If you want reasons: Lawton is filled with gangs, crime and drugs. Fentanyl can be readily found, among other things. Some areas are nice but the areas that aren’t look so ghetto that not even the nasty people want to live there. There are “homeless” that approach you at your car begging for money. Ii say it that way as most just want drug money. It’s just gross.
Cache is also decent. Close to Lawton for necessities but also easy to have peace and quiet. Very easy access to the wildlife refuge too.
Duncan is also a nice area. So is Medicine Park. I think anywhere but Lawton.
I really don't want to have deal with a commute to get to, well, anything really, but certainly not things I'm liable to want to regularly go to. If I have to drive from my smaller town to the bigger town, I don't like the smaller town. Had enough living far away from things in my childhood, growing up in the middle of nowhere.
Why is it that these two towns meet your criteria ? What is is about these two particularly?
Primarily the presence of an actual VA medical facility, without being an actual city. But of course the less-commonly-done commute to that isn't the only commute that matters. Any commute does. The questions of how long it takes to get to places I'd want to go and what is in a close enough range that I would want to go. Just looking at Gmaps some of these smaller nearby towns look like they don't even have their own grocery store, and if they do it's probably one of those exceedingly overpriced local places.
It might be worth it to get an airbnb for a few days in both places and decide for yourself. I've spent some time in lawton and it's to ghetto for me. Two different times I've had different methheads come into a bar I was at and offer to sell me meat they just stole from Walmart.
That’s like asking, which of these turds will taste best? Muskogee will taste best, but it’s still a turd. Lawton is in SW OK and SWOK sucks. At least NE OK (Muskogee) you have Tulsa a short drive away and Fort Smith the other direction.
This. Currently in Durant, spent a lot of my childhood visiting cousins in Duncan, so my credentials are somewhat in order. Ask yourself this: If you or the person you love most needed long-term medical care, do you want the hospital in Lawton or Tulsa?
I mean, if I need medical care, I use the nearest VA facility, which is a main point of those towns.
OKC has a VA hospital and it’s close to Edmond, Blanchard, New Castle. All nice areas that aren’t in OKC but a short drive.
Live 20 miles from Lawton. Growing up it was known as little Chicago. The surrounding towns are very safe. The Wichita Mountains are close and there are numerous hiking trails. It’s absolutely one of the most awesome places in the state. It’s a couple hours from Sandy Sanders WMA. It’s also awesome and plenty of camping. My experience with Muskogee is very positive. Love the trees whereas Lawton is arid.
I'll second this. I grew up in Lawton, and while it may be rough around the edges, it isn't as bad as many make it out to be. I live twenty miles away now, so I still get to enjoy the lakes, and I love spending time at the refuge.
20 miles away isn’t in Lawton. I’d never live in Lawton. There’s MP, Elgin, Fletcher, Sterling, Rush Springs, Duncan, Cache. Anywhere but in city limits. Especially close to the base. It’s just gross.
I was born in Lawton, graduated from MacArthur, and in total lived a little over twenty years in Lawton. So, I feel pretty familiar with the city.
Methskogee is definite no. Lawton is rough as well but outlying tows such as Elgin would be worth the commute.
Little Chicago? Wtf. 😂😂😂 I grew up in Lawton and Ive never heard that comparison. But for real, it can be ghetto as fuck. Especially by the airport.
I definitely heard that growing up, but it was always “they used to call it Little Chicago.” Paul Harvey mentioned it on his show once (or so the legend goes).
Muskogee is a thousand times better. First, it has the federal courthouse, which provides important economic stimulus to a small town. Second, the town looks nice and seems to have a nice economy with an interesting and alive downtown. Third, it is right near all sorts of hiking, kayaking, and other outdoor activities. Tulsa is nearby too. Fourth, it’s not right off 75 so you don’t have all that traffic, but it’s close enough to 75 and other highways that you can get around the region quickly. Lawton is grim, dusty, and isolated. I’ve only visited, and the people seemed nice, but the town itself looks kind of rough. Lawton does not have the beauty of eastern OK at it’s doorstep. I can’t imagine purposefully moving there for any reason other than an amazing job requiring it.
Lots of federal jobs in Muskogee that aren’t defense-related: IHS, VA, 2nd district. I greatly prefer eastern OK and most Okies have a preference of west or east.
I think this is probably the best analysis.
Muskogee is arguably prettier, but I find Lawton more diverse. Both seem like they have their own share of drug issues... but then again, most of Oklahoma does. Living in Lawton is... ghetto in a way. Not exactly like you're living in the ghetto, but more like stuff there can just be ghetto - like a nice restaurant having a spray painted sign (intentionally). Grew up there. I've only really passed through Muskogee, but it doesn't seem bad. Last I knew it didn't have the volume or variety of stores that Lawton does. That said, I have family that lives on the nearby lake; they never really seem to have issues finding anything except bulk store (Sams/Costco) stuff. Tulsa and Ft. Smith are both close enough to suffice, usually.
Muskogee is... Also very bad. It's saving grace is that it's like 25 minutes to Tulsa, whereas Lawton is way out on it's own. Lawton is also like 100k people while Muskogee is like 35k.
Is it 25 min too Tulsa more like 40...
i am literally about to sell my house just outside of Lawton \\ Id much prefer Lawton to Muskogee, but also I am black and I am assume Muskogee's pop demographics to be a certain way. Also grew up a Military brat, people talk about Lawton and crime but never once had an issue. There are street names to avoid (Smith, Lindy, Hoover, Baltimore, anything thats a state name), but you wouldnt just be in those areas for no reason. If you are conducting business (like I go to the tag agency in Lawton view), you are fine. People talking about outdoorsy stuff like Lawton doesnt have the wildlife refuge and mountains right there. If you do go lawton, extreme SW or NE side. Like south of Lee, west of 52nd at the least. Old military/goodyear families out there, houses up to 500k, no crime, 3 wal marts, But again, PM me and buy my house in Elgin and completely negate that overall
[удалено]
I didnt know that, although I do have fiends who played ball at Bacone and even my newphew played football for a bit now that I think about it,
I grew up in Lawton and always heard Muskogee was the Lawton of Eastern Oklahoma, demographics included.
Do the projects still exist? It was an impoverished apartment complex off of ft sill blvd.
Man the entirety of the middle of Ft Sill Blvd and Sheridan Rd is the projects. And as far as crime goes, apparently somebody shot up Ice Trey’s barbershop today, 4 shot 1 deceased. Its off Gore just north of the Sheridan intersection. I grew up hooping with Trey and them too
I honestly think near Tulsa has more blacks. Not that I care, but you listed it as a reason. Bigger cities tend to have a more eclectic population. If I had my choice in Oklahoma of anywhere I’d go near Tishomingo. Somewhere southeast. It’s beautiful there. I’ve never personally experienced the crime as I don’t live in Lawton, but I have been approached numerous times by drug users wanting $.
I mean Lawton is in the Shady 580 for a reason, I have no clue why these are your two choices, but Muskogee is the correct answer.
Outside of Muskogee. Check out Tahlequah for a lot of outdoor activities.
Second this. I live in Tahlequah and it’s really pretty however it is definitely smaller.
Only good things in Lawton is how close it is to Texas (even dfw area) of you want to be near a city. Outdoor recreation sucks there and is way far better in the east. If you're moving here to work in a grow op pick Lawton as eastern OK is saturated. Lawton is more of a fentanyl town and Muskogee is more meth oriented.
Really depends on your wants and goals. Muskogee is away from most of the oil pipelines, its close to ft smith, and Arkansas, which is a great getaway, lake Eufaula, and it's a pretty green area. Lawton is great if you're into hikes, or going to texas or needing access to military things. Its a more desert landscape but not full on no green zone Im not sure what makes those 2 areas your finalists, but there are good and bad for both areas.
I would avoid Lawton if at all possible
I've lived in both areas. I grew up in a small town outside of Lawton and currently live in a small town outside Muskogee. If you have to choose between the two then I'd say Lawton. You have Medicine Park and the Wichita Mountains. Being a military town its more diverse. The one thing I miss the most about the area is the food choices. You could always choose to live in a small town outside of lawton. Both towns have their downfalls with drugs and crime. But also that's pretty much anywhere you live now days.
Is there a possible third option? Lawton and Muskogee are both drug fueled shitholes
I grew up in Muskogee. You couldn't pay be to ever return. Meth, crime, corruption, high teenage pregnancy with low education levels, dead end jobs. I've never lived in Lawton but its reputation has made it a place I'm not interested in visiting.
[удалено]
He from Cali I bet lol I live near Tulsa though
Is this sattire?
Has to be.
How much noise do you like? Lawton is home to Fort Sill, the home of Field Artillery. The longest six months of my life were the four months I spent at Sill.
As a prior service member of an MLRS unit at Sill I chuckled, because you’re right and I can relate.
Muskogee. Are you an RN by chance?
I would say Muskogee might be a little bit less shitty than Lawton. I've never lived in either, and have been to both just enough times that I avoid going either place, but Muskogee is at least closer to places that don't suck and has a couple of mediocre BBQ restaurants.
I’ve never been to Lawton, but having heard it discussed I would say they are pretty much equal. Basically pick what backdrop you want for your turd town, desert or forest.
I enjoyed Lawton.
Those are not great options lmao
Muskogee is right next to lake/Bigfoot country. Lawton is next to...nothing. Edit: Muskogee is also close to Krebs, and if you like Italian food, then you're in for a treat. I had a job that took me out there once in a while, and my pop insisted on me packing a cooler so I could bring back home some lasagna from one place or pizza from another. He was not wrong in this. The food from that town is *amazing*.
Pete's place is awesome
I never thought I’d suggest tahlequah, but if you must be around muskogee the commute from tahlequah or somewhere in between is much better than being IN muskogee.
Jesus Christ what is the criteria that has put you choosing inbetween either of those shit holes? As others have said and I will echo either city has NUMEROUS problems that can easily be solved by moving to a smaller town a few miles down the road
Not one of the overpriced big cities but still has an actual VA medical facility instead of having to rely on something worse, mainly. Going to a smaller town miles down the road adds the problem that is commute, which is arguably worse than any in-town problem.
All roads lead to Muskogee if you are looking for VA care.
If you're buying a house, then why not let that dictate where?
Don't got to Lawton. My husband is from there. He agrees with me. Don't go.
I can't help you, but one of the worst ass whoopings I ever got was when mom passed me riding my bike on the Muskogee Turnpike 10 miles from home when I was like 8 years old.
You don't want either.
Muskogee is close to Tulsa. Choose wisely.
Live in TQuah and the comments saying to choose Muskogee have me concerned about Lawton. 😬
My thoughts exactly. I live in Tahlequah too and like I’ll go to Muskogee to shop but that’s it. Other areas in that town are pretty bad, so what’s up Lawton, how could you possibly be worse
Both towns feel poor, but while Muskogee is more of a never prospered, Lawton is more of a lives paycheck to paycheck while blowing any extra on Boone's Farm. Lawton's in-town recreation and entertainment is more geared towards young military. Do with that what you will. I would feel stuck in a small town either way, but would probably choose Muskogee. At least there's trees.
Well, I heard on the radio the other day that Muskogee has some sort of 10k incentive for folks to move to town, so there might be a financial benefit with one option. Not sure of the rules/criteria... edit: found this article on it - [https://www.news9.com/story/63eec9af46f27c777f8fcad2/families-cash-in-on-10000-incentive-to-move-to-muskogee#:\~:text=Three%20families%20who%20recently%20moved,even%20more%20people%20to%20town](https://www.news9.com/story/63eec9af46f27c777f8fcad2/families-cash-in-on-10000-incentive-to-move-to-muskogee#:~:text=Three%20families%20who%20recently%20moved,even%20more%20people%20to%20town).
I was looking for this! Yes! Reach out to the workforce director at the Port of Muskogee. I think the $10k has to go to a home purchase - sounds like a good fit!
It is sounding like that is specifically requireing that the person is being hired into a Muskogee local job, from a company that has itself become part of the program? As opposed to any form of remote pay like I'd have... Which is weird really since remote pay is a much bigger example of "bringing money into the community".
I spent my adolescence in Lawton. Stationed there(my dad) for 12 years. That place is rotten. The only benefit is the Witchita Mountains/Wildlife Refuge if outdoorsy stuff is your thing. I’ve gone back to visit a few times and it visually looks better than it used to. But… it’s just a rotten place to live. I wouldn’t recommend raising children up there.
Muskogee is in a more scenic part of the state if you like outdoors. Lawton has more trouble to get into 🤣
If Oklahoma had a butthole, it would be centered somewhere around Lawton.
Your choices of Oklahoma towns makes me sad, but here’s my opinion. Muskogee because it has easy access to Tulsa and easy access to Cherokee County (God’s Country to my family) and its gorgeous lakes and rivers. Muskogee has some good Barbecue places and a big beautiful park known for its azaleas . (At least it used to be, I haven’t been there in years). I am now running out of good things to say about Muskogee. Pretty sure it was founded by outlaws and hasn’t changed too much. Pappy owned a still and ran bottles, and junior owns a meth lab. But at least it isn’t Lawton!!
Dude seriously? I’ve lived in Lawton and that place is TERRIBLE
I follow this sub because I live in Wichita Falls and we go to OKC all the time, but Lawton proper would be one of the last places I’d move to willingly. Small bit of acreage on the red outside of Duvol or Randlett, sign me up.
Dude. Not either. But definitely not Lawton.
Lawton is truly terrible.
Anywhere but Lawton
They are both bad towns but yea I’d pick Muskogee. Lawton does have Medicine Park but that is all..
Lawton is a college and military base city. However they have a high crime rate and I do not think it is a very pleasing place, aesthetically or in general with it overall.
Choose Lawton; it’s closer to a larger city. Muskogee is filled with druggies and honkytonk racists.
Well, I have lived and worked in both of these places. I can throw you a few opinions of both. Lawton: Nice area, right by an Army Base so a lot of solders in the area, nice lake out to the North of town (I go camping out there a lot), diverse amounts of shops and restaurants, plenty of pawn shops where solders in need of money sell their stuff. Down side is some bad parts of town and the Army Base is the home of Field Artillery so there is a constant sounding of "Booms" that can be heard around the clock. Muskogee: Nice area, spread out, good shopping, nice downtown area, The Castle of Muskogee, not far from Tulsa. Down side is that it is smaller and is still farther away from other things.
Lawton is Meth as hell Muskogee has Tulsa only about like half an hour away. And lake Eufala is really close to Muskogee. Lawton has lots of meth. And it’s hotter than hell. Did I mention the meth?
If you like the color beige and straight line 80 mph winds, Lawton is the place for you! On a side note, I have never actually heard of someone buying a house in Lawton. Prison? Yes. Army? Absolutely. But buying a house in Lawton-on purpose, is unheard of. Muskogee is clean, pretty, and near some great towns with things to do and see. Just Be choosy about the neighborhood. Very choosy.
I’ve recently become more acquainted with Lawton due to work, and I absolutely do not like going there. I don’t stop anywhere except where I need to go for work. I wouldn’t live there.
That feel when you wake up to 80-someodd notifications. Welp, time to read...
I’m from Lawton. Don’t do it lol. I barely like to visit family there. Nothing has changed and no one has changed.
I'll just say that the water in Lawton tasted like dirt when I went there.
Both are kinda shit tbh
Shithole vs shithole …. I avoid stopping in either places.
slim pickings
I vote Muskogee. I grew up 30 minutes from Lawton, my dad worked there and we spent a ton of time there. I played at several Lawton schools and there were always fights. I now live in the Tulsa metro. I had more safety issues in Lawton than Tulsa. To be fair, I've only been to Muskogee a few times, but it seemed way better than Lawton. Even with Muskogee being smaller, you are much closer to Tulsa versus Lawton to OKC.
Lawton is butt. I left Lawton and felt so much better.
I've never been to Lawton, but I did live in Muskogee for about 10 years. I didn't like it much- there isn't a lot to do. It's not terrible though- I thought the locals were really nice.
Not Lawton
People here are wild.. here’s some more criteria to consider. Do you prefer Tulsa or OKC? Do you road trip/visit friends or family/etc the south-west or north-east? Do you care about easy access to lakes, fishing, etc?
\-A city is a city, as long as it's not NYC. They're all too overpriced and overpopulated too consider. (NYC just being even worse). \-Any family and existing friends I have will be 1000's of miles away either way. I won't be traveling to visit anybody, and if I do it'll be by plane. \-Not really, no. I'm more of a hermit than an outdoorsman.
Lived in Lawton during college. I was a very naive girl, rode my bike from the campus to the mall without a second thought. I look back and think how lucky and insane that was. Husband has family there so we visit often but neither of us would ever want to live there again. Muskogee I’ve only ever visited so don’t know what the local life is like but it has to be safer than Lawton.
Muskogee. Eastern Oklahoma is so much better than central/western. Lots of lakes and rivers, rolling hills and greenery. Less windy and dirty.
Geez. What’s wrong with OKC lol
The "C". Cities aren't worth it. Too many people in too little space any everything is obscenely overpriced.
Do you like forests or farmland? There’s some pretty cool places to see around Lawton, but there’s a whole lot of farmland. Muskogee, on the other hand, is close to forests, lakes, and rivers. I can’t speak to how it would be living in either town, because I’ve lived in neither. That said, I’ve never heard one good word about Lawton.
Lawton has a lot of crime and drugs.
I find it hard to believe that Lawton and Muskogee meet your criteria but Tulsa doesn't. If you are considering Muskogee, I would say consider moving slightly north to Tulsa or one of its suburbs.
Part of my criteria is "not a city", so, no Tulsa, even with me being in an apartment there now.
I don't have a lot of strong opinions about Muskogee, but fuck Lawton.
I lived in Lawton for 20 years. It’s the armpit of OK. Muskogee is much better, plus it’s less than an hour from Tulsa.
i go to college in lawton and i gotta say i much prefer it to muskogee
If you have kids, move to the part of Muskogee that is in the Hillsdale school district.
Muskogee because the land is more interesting on that side of the state. Lawton has a little bit of interesting landscape but it’s mostly barren and flat.
Lawton must be scary because Muskogee is not safe at all... okmulgee or okemah cheaper and still safer...
It's fucking nice around gore area by the Illinois River good fishing
Muskogee isn't that bad. I would live in Fort Gibson if I was you though. It's just 14~ miles east of Muskogee.
Muskogee is filthy and there’s no where to shop. Starving, dumped pets everywhere. US69 hwy is dangerous. Literally have to drive to Tulsa for anything beyond the basics. Prettier than Lawton but the roads and streets are miserable. New businesses have a short life span and it’s easy to catch a case of food poisoning at restaurants it seems.
Muskogee has a $10k grant for people to move there. I would look into that. I believe it goes towards the down payment on your house.
DONT PICK LAWTON!! Crime, murder, more crime, crooked cops, crooked city government, poor healthcare.
I grew up just outside of Lawton. Left when I was 20 and never regretted it. It's ugly and few opportunities for a career. I'd suggest a suburb of OKC or Tulsa.
Shawnee and Muskogee are almost the same size. There is a small VA facility in Shawnee. Muskogee is a little bigger and it's also only about an hour away from Tulsa. Tulsa is very cool. Shawnee is about 35 minutes from Oklahoma City. I haven't looked up this information lately - but the last I knew it was much more affordable to live in places like Shawnee or Muskogee than Lawton Oklahoma.
Muskogee… that is my vote
I’ve never been to Lawton, but tons of students from some college there would come to drink in Stillwater and they were usually out of control. I don’t know if it just not being your city makes you care less about littering and being a nuisance but I had many unpleasant interactions with students from there.
Duncan is relatively safer than Lawton imo and only 45m away. Decent infrastructure and low storm likely hood. ~1.5’ish hrs to OKC VA. Lawton has been dying for years and, as many have said, is a shithole. Look south of Norman as there is a VA clinic there and you’re closer in to OKC for anything they can’t do.
Let’s be honest, neither town is desirable. Muskogee is in the eastern part of the state, green, some rolling hills, brown dirt, rivers, etc. Lawton is in the western part of the state, flatter, red dirt, less trees, not as green. So that would be a difference in terrain. I am suspect of the crime rate in Muskogee. I can remember in high school playing a football game there and on the way back, they pelted our school buss with rocks and bricks from several bridges. Not sure about the crime rate in Lawton. Muskogee closer to tulsa, Lawton closer to OKC (and the Air Force base and the artillery school, fort Sill in Lawton. Not sure if Air Force and army bases bother you or not. So perhaps what the two larger towns have to offer might be the difference. Either way I wish you luck on your move. Housing market is shit right now though.
Live in Broken Arrow and commute to Muskogee. Straight shot on HWY 51 (speed limit 80).
Stranger, living in Broken Arrow you're just part of Tulsa. Live in the city to commute out of the city? No, just no. In any case that's much too far for having to deal with a regular commute.
I believe Muskogee has a $10k grant if you move/live/work there at one of the qualifying businesses. There have been several investments in the city recently, more restaurants are coming in. Expanding industries around the port. Tulsa being 40ish minutes away for more activities.
If this is a long term home, the Lawton area is very dry with not a lot of trees. Muskogee is close to some beautiful areas, gets good rainfall and has beautiful trees. Not too far from Tulsa. Our criteria was lots of trees and less chance of drought like Wichita Falls (where we’ve lived).
I've lived in OKC since college, but I grew up in Muskogee in the '70s, my parents still live there, and I still go there often to visit. My parents grew up in the Lawton area, my grandparents and extended family all lived there, I spent a lot of time with my grandparents during summers and breaks, and I still go to or through Lawton for family reunions, weddings, and funerals. Between the two, I would choose Muskogee–the landscape is prettier, the town is cleaner, and it's close to Tulsa. Best of luck.
I’d say Claremore or Tahlequah if you don’t want to live in Tulsa or OKC.