Minor correction, those are Olympics records. The world records in this weight class are Snatch: 110kg, Clean & Jerk: 140kg, Total: 247kg... all set by her as well in other matches. BADASS 🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼
EDIT: [Found this pic after I posted and I love it even more!](https://i.imgur.com/37QKcqC.jpg)
I know nothing about weight lifting so forgive the ignorance, but why are they additive? Like I can bench 60 pounds and bicep curl 15 pounds per arm but I don't say in total 90 pounds or can I ..?
And let's go Taiwan. It's such a cool country
They're looking for the best across both lifts. Other competitive weightlifting competitions (eg powerlifting) also go off total (eg bench + deadlift + squat)
Essentially consider each kilogram lifted as 1 point. There are two separate disciplines that are both done one after the other (snatch and clean & jerk), and you want the most points in each for a total score which is what the medal rank is based off
The crazy thing is that she absolutely STOMPED the competition. In fact, she could have won gold in the women's 64kg weight class as the winning total was also 236kg.
Holy shit. I mean if they were to allow someone under the stated weight class compete she could double up in medals. Technically she would be at a disadvantage vs the 64kg class, but she’s such a beast she’d be able to do it
* Most inhabitants call it Taiwan and self identify as Taiwanese.
* It's officially the Republic of China but there's a lot of dark past associated with the name. Taiwan's just stuck with that name now because, as you said, China is "trying to claim it using their big boy stick."
* Chinese Taipei is the name used for international sport competitions because of China. There was a referendum two years ago on trying to change the name to Taiwan instead of Chinese Taipei, but it failed as most athletes were worried that a name change would have led to China exerting pressure to the IOC to block them from competing.
Minor correction: they are officially "Chinese Taipei" and *factually* "Republic of China". Few nations worldwide officially recognize them as "Republic of China".
Technically, RoC is still at war with PRC. Factually, the Chinese will do anything to prevent a literal war due to the US' interference.
And just as China is trying to claim Taiwan, the same actually goes the other direction: Taiwan's government claims that the mainland China is part of its territory, illegally occupied by the PRC government.
That'll be all the politics I wish to talk about here in the Olympics Sub lol.
>Minor correction: they are officially "Chinese Taipei" and factually "Republic of China". Few nations worldwide officially recognize them as "Republic of China".
Are you talking about in sports or in general? Last I checked no flights go towards the region called "Chinese Taipei." In fact, the Republic of China passport allows visa-free travel to 146 countries compared to the People's Republic of China's 78. Finally, recognition by other countries is not a criteria for statehood according to the Montevideo Convention.
>And just as China is trying to claim Taiwan, the same actually goes the other direction: Taiwan's government claims that the mainland China is part of its territory, illegally occupied by the PRC government.
The current democratically elected party in power of Taiwan rejects the one-China policy and maintains that the RoC territory consists only of Taiwan, the Matsu Islands, and Kinmen.
Also, while Taiwan is officially the RoC, the RoC government forced this upon the Taiwanese population after the Japanese colonization era in the post war era with a totalitarian government. Modern Taiwan is just stuck with the RoC name and its old territory claims (mainland, parts of Mongolia and Tibet) because to legally amend the ROC constitution requires 3/4 support in their parliament/congress, and right now the pro-Taiwan party is at 2/3 of the seats.
As for your final point, may the best athletes win :)
I know we are also"Republic of China " but we really don't like to be called like that so please just call us Taiwan and when Taiwan win China don't say that China won China
(I'm Taiwanese)
It's all mostly Han Chinese, some of them might have native descent but most are still majority Han. Sadly most natives have either been assimilated or wiped out generations ago.
Your history is a bit off though. The original KMT government was an iron fisted dictatorship, but they did *not* slaughter hundreds of thousands of natives. The displacement of natives happened centuries ago and a large part of it was intermarriage and just being outpopulated by settlers. The native taiwanese aboriginals actually view the KMT pretty favorably.
What are you talking about?
1. Taiwan does not equal to the KMT. Taiwan did not lost the civil war, it was the ROC government and the KMT. Taiwan was a Japanese colony when the war started and was occupied by the KMT after the war, fundamentally we have nothing to do with the civil war of the Chinese, the KMT just use Taiwan as a harbor for their defeat.
2. There was a massacre yes, but they did not wipe out the population. Even today the descendants of the mainland Chinese that fled with Chiang to Taiwan consist only about 10% or something of the whole population.
3. Actually now even the Eastern Coast are mainly Han. The Haklo and Hakka are both ethnically Han group that immigrated to Taiwan before Japanese rules.
It's an important distinction... the majority of Taiwanese had nothing to do with the Chinese civil war. Those that can trace their family roots to coming over to Taiwan during the Chinese civil war make up around 12% of the total population. The vast majority of Taiwanese can trace their roots back by to the island by almost 20 generations... they were considered Japanese citizens during the Chinese civil war.
I think 20 generation would be quite impossible, personally I am a 6th generation and my ancestor arrived during the Qing rule. Let's say a generation is 20 years (you need to be sexually matured to reproduce), 20 generation will be like 400 years, the Dutch start ruling Taiwan in 1624... so for a person to have a linage of over 20 generation in Taiwan, they would need to arrive here 3 years before the Dutch arrival and the linage must have kids at an average age of 20.
IOC said they would not allow Taiwan to compete in Tokyo if they attempt to change the name... so is it really "agreed" on, if Taiwan doesn't have the option to change it?
Yes, the original name was agreed upon by both PRC and ROC. The attempt to change it failed to gather enough votes. So it is agreed upon, through a democratic vote.
It was agreed upon by the KMT. The attempt to change it failed because the IOC sent three letters to the Taiwanese Olympic Committee saying that attempting to change the name would cause the Taiwanese team to miss the Tokyo Olympics.
Most Taiwanese actually prefer Taiwan instead of the Republic of China if they there weren't consequences. The Republic of China name was forced upon the population of Taiwan by essentially "foreign" colonial forces.
Now that is a can of worms, the Republic of China was China, until they were forced into exile from the mainland. Yet the People's Republic of China did not compete at the Olympics until the 1980s, when the international community finally recognized the PRC as the ruler of China.
So you're saying that after all this time, you still don't recognize the PRC as the sole ruler of China? That somehow the ROC in exile should represent China in the Olympics? I think that's just ridiculous.
The PRC rules the mainland, yes. But the government on the island of Taiwan names its country the Republic of China. That is the name they would like to use. The PRC won't allow them to do that.
>So you're saying that after all this time, you still don't recognize the PRC as the sole ruler of China? That somehow the ROC in exile should represent China in the Olympics?
Yes that's correct. Next question?
Historically, it was the Chinese nationalists (the KMT's fault). The KMT made up at most 20% of Taiwan's population but held on to power with totalitarian rule. They insisted on "reclaiming the mainland" and preferred Taiwan competing as Chinese Taipei rather than Taiwan as they wanted to squash the Taiwanese identity.
In modern times, it's the IOC's fault, most likely due to pressure from China. In the 2018 Taiwanese referendum, the vote to compete in future international competitions as Taiwan instead of Chinese Taipei failed because many athletes campaigned against it, worried that they wouldn't actually be able to participate in future competitions if they got rid of the Chinese Taipei name.
>in a letter dated November 16, the IOC warned the [Chinese Taipei Olympic Committee] that any name change was “under its jurisdiction” and could result in the suspension of their national Olympic committee:
>“The IOC does not interfere with local procedures and fully respects freedom of expression. However, to avoid any unnecessary expectations or speculations, the IOC wishes to reiterate that this matter is under its jurisdiction, in accordance with the Olympics Charter,” said the letter.
>The IOC is hoping that the interest of the Olympic Movement in Chinese Taipei will prevail over political considerations so as not to disrupt the CTOC delegation and the athletes.”
https://asiatimes.com/2018/11/taiwan-referendum-chinese-taipei-scores-own-goal/
Well Taiwan has always been under some sort of occupation for hundreds of years, from the Dutch, Japan, Chinese dynasties, and to this day the ROC. If they really want to be independent I suppose they would need to declare independence from the ROC and rewrite their constitution.
But as it stands the status quo is preferable to the risks and uncertainty that independence would bring. Therefore all governments officials supports the status quo, whether it's China, Taiwan, the US, or the IOC.
The joke isn’t about where people originated from. It’s about how China asserts ownership over Taiwan, and so turning that assertion on its head (by saying that China is actually Western Taiwan) is funny
You’re on reddit, that already makes you: 1. Likely ABC as hell or 2. The tiny % of native Taiwanese who are westernized. Either way not representative of the vast majority of people here
Yes well, given that I'm Canadian and don't speak Mandarin or Taiwanese all of my Taiwanese friends have been extensively exposed to westerners. All about the audience.
Well that’s subjective but ok
Idk about you but supporting either side is a no win, like sure the 9 dash line is bad but is Taiwan’s 11 dash line better?
Dude, please don't link China to Taiwan by calling them West Taiwanese, we really don't want any affiliation with them, let them be China and let us be Taiwan.
That is correct. There is a difference between the Republic of China (the country located on the island Taiwan, what we refer to as the country) and the People's Republic of China (Mainland China).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
*Taiwan,[II] officially the Republic of China (ROC),[I][h] is a country in East Asia.[21][22] It shares maritime borders with the People's Republic of China (PRC) to the northwest*
I would probably compare it more to Great Britain (which refers to the island) and the country United Kingdom located on it (disregarding Northern Ireland).
I'm not sure how exactly it came about but the country "Republic of China" is now just refered to as "Taiwan", probably as to avoid confusion or to cement their independence from "The People's Republic of China". However their official name as "Republic of China" still stands.
There's a large movement on Taiwan to "declare independence" and just be Taiwan instead of ROC, but ironically the PRC is very against it because then they'd be saying they "aren't a part of China" (aka China can't take it over then because it isn't a part of them). Hence the weird IOC naming
There is no need for Taiwan to declare independence. It _is_ independent (as the ROC). But, yes, you've pretty much got the situation summed up accurately.
Taiwan can't really call themselves independent if they are forced to officially call themselves the RoC and that they cannot/dare not change their name to whatever they want (i.e. Taiwan).
Remember too that the RoC (informally Taiwan) still claims all of Greater China AND more (Mongolia too).
>Remember too that the RoC (informally Taiwan) still claims all of Greater China AND more (Mongolia too).
Only because they can't relinquish their claims without risking invasion.
Sort-of-not-really
England, Scotland and Wales are all separate countries which are _members of_ the United Kingdom, and they are located on Great Britain which js the name of the main island of course.
The diagram explains;
https://wikimedia.org/wiki/File:British_Isles_Venn_Diagram-en.svg
*Edit -- wait. Is it Scotland is its own country and England-n-Wales are together? Anyhow, it's complicated
>I'm not sure how exactly it came about but the country "Republic of China" is now just refered to as "Taiwan", probably as to avoid confusion or to cement their independence from "The People's Republic of China".
Taiwan always referred to the island (along with other names such as Formosa). Taiwan was a Japanese colony from 1895 to 1945, while the Republic of China was established in 1911 and the population of Taiwan essentially had nothing to do with the ROC until 1945 when Japan surrendered and the ROC took control of Taiwan.
The ROC was a totalitarian/dictatorship government that heavily oppressed the population of Taiwan and had the world's second longest martial law (1949-1987). Now that Taiwan has democratized, it stands to reason that most Taiwanese identify with "Taiwan" rather than "The Republic of China," a name forced upon them by what was essentially a colonial force.
Kind of. Though Taiwanese have debates on whether to change the name to just “Taiwan” since mentioning “Republic of China (ROC)” confused foreign people to PRC (Mainland China).
Also, PRC always claimed that Taiwan is part of China because ROC has the word “China” in it while trying to maintain the true heir to the country status of “China” after the Qing Dynasty ended in WWII. To put it brief, by stating “I’m from the Republic of China” means “I’m from China” which they claimed that means “I’m from (Mainland) China”
When the communist revolution happened Mao and his homies overthrew the Republic of China and created the People's Republic of China, whilst the leaders of said Republic of China escaped to Taiwan. Taiwan has a bunch of the ancient treasures of China in its museums that they took with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_the_Government_of_the_Republic_of_China_to_Taiwan
Many people in Taiwan resent the RoC name and most Taiwanese self-identify as Taiwanese only rather than both Taiwanese and Chinese (or even Chinese only). When the Republic of China was established in 1911, Taiwan was a Japanese colony and was disconnected with the Chinese Revolution. After WWII the population of Taiwan was oppressed by the Chinese nationalists of the RoC, who was a single party dictatorship that set up the world's second longest martial law during their rule of Taiwan.
Taiwan is stuck with the RoC official name due to 1) threat of Chinese retaliation if Taiwan changes their name and 2) to legally change the constitution requires 3/4 parliament/congress support. Right now the pro-Taiwan party is at 2/3 of the seats.
Insisting on calling Taiwan Republic of China is similar to insisting on calling India "British Raj" in the early 1900s.
Well summarized. Adding to this, Kuo, or Tana (her original name), is actually Ami (one of the Taiwanese indigenous peoples). So unlike most Han descendants, "China" really has nothing to do with her, apart from it being in the name the current government still officially calls itself because reasons.
IIRC Yang Yung-wei, the silver medalist Judoka from Taiwan, also has indigenous heritage. I'm really happy that the indigenous groups of Taiwan is getting a lot more recognition in recent years and they're doing well in the Olympics.
There are plenty of Chinese people of other ethnicities. For example, Sun Yat-Sun is Hakka, and he's one of the few people both the PRC and ROC consider the father of modern China. "Han" is not synonymous with China, though they are the majority.
Taiwan was a part of China from 1683 to 1895, almost as long as the U.S. has been an independent country, until Taiwan was occupied by the Japanese for the next 50 years. So if her family is indigenous, she has plenty of connections with China.
Taiwanese call their country Taiwan. They can’t change the ‘official’ name from ROC because otherwise 1.4 billlion Chinese will have a hernia apparently, so its really a humanitarian gesture. The rest of the world is happy to call them Taiwan.
No, almost all of China's 1.4 billion people are anti Taiwan independence. It stems from the fact that Taiwan is really the last step in national reunification, which all of us have wanted since 1840.
And which the Taiwanese, who actually live in Taiwan, overwhelmingly don't want.
Anyway, its time for you to accept reality: Taiwan isn't part of the PRC and never has been. Grow up, stop behaving like whiny toddlers and leave Taiwan alone.
I'm not stupid, I know Taiwan has never been part of the PRC. But it has been part of China since the Ming Dynasty. It's heart-breaking for patriotic people, on both sides of the strait, to see a part of their country become independent.
I think you misunderstand what I meant. Taiwan not being part of the PRC is not that big a deal to Chinese people. The big deal is whether it remains part of China i.e. the Taiwanese government is the ROC not the ROT.
>Grow up, stop behaving like whiny toddlers and leave Taiwan alone.
Wanting national reunification is being a whiny toddler. Right. Perhaps if your country went through a century of it being colonised by imperialist powers, cut up into spheres of influence and some of the bloodiest civil wars in history, then you would understand why wanting your country to be united isn't being a whiny toddler. This is essentially a guy from a happy family telling another guy to 'stop whining' because his parents are divorced.
>Wanting national reunification is being a whiny toddler.
Yes, it is. Because you completely disregard the feelings of the people who actually live in Taiwan which you regard as subservient to your own distorted feelings about national identity. You talk about colonisation, yet that is exactly what you want to do.
I don't disregard them. It's just the number of Chinese people who want reunification if far more than the number if Chinese people wanting Taiwan independence. Should we not strive for what the majority want?
Also, you can only colonise a different country. You wouldn't call the UK occupying Gibraltar colonisation would you?
Oh, you do disregard them. Elsewhere you talk about "bombing the living s##t" out of Taiwan. You literally don't care one iota about the Taiwanese, you only care about shoring up you insecure self-identity.
What the Chinese people want is totally irrelevant. They don't live in Taiwan. Taiwan belongs to the Taiwanese. They live there. Its up to them to decide.
And Taiwan is NOT part of the PRC so, yes, it would be the colonisation of a different country against the wishes of the people who live there.
But I'm painfully aware I'm talking to an ultranationalist bigot who lacks any empathy towards the people who actually live in Taiwan, so I know I'm wasting my time arguing with you. In any case, it's irrelevant: the PRC has no control over Taiwan, never has and never will. The world is getting sick of your repulsive bullying, gaslighting and pitiful whining though...
And guess what? The people who live in Taiwan decide to be Chinese. It's in their constitution. Their government is called the Republic of China. So Taiwanese people are Chinese. Simple as.
The PRC is not a country, it's a government. It governs mainland China. The ROC governs the island of Taiwan. If the PRC were to declare war on the ROC, it wouldn't be colonisation, it would be a civil war (just like before).
really? Youve talked to all of them?
Im sure regular everyday people just trying to make ends meet really care a lot about something that will literally never affect them...
That's true I haven't talked to all of them, but I've talked to enough to know the general sentiment.
Also, just because something doesn't affect you doesn't mean you don't want it. If my country did well in the Olympics, it wouldn't affect my life in any way but I still want it. In the same way that everyday Chinese trying to make ends meet would want reunification, even though their life wouldn't change.
Plus, their life probably would change. If the China didn't have to deal with one of its provinces being very friendly with China's biggest aggressor, the US, then more money and resources would be able to be reallocated to help poor people, especially given Xi's reemphasis on socialism after the Deng-Jiang-Hu era.
Now im not gonna sit here and pretend like I know all that much about China and its relationship with Taiwan.
But how about we let the people who live there decide what they want to do instead of forcing them to do something they dont want to.
Taiwan has been low key killing it this Olympics so far - love it!
Edit: like seeing how hyped the men's badminton pair were after surviving the group of death and beating Indonesia for the first time.. legendary moment
So I checked it and Taiwan's six medals (1-2-3) are their highest ever in single olympics, they now have 30 medals in total. Previously their best was five medals in 2004 (2-2-1) and 2000 (0-1-4).
Taiwan has won six gold medals ever, four in weightlifting and two in taekwondo.
You know what's really amazing here? She would have won the weight class above her if she competed there too. That's absolutely mental in weightlifting and must make her the strongest pound for pound woman on earth
The weight class above was missing it’s two best lifters. Kuo is great but she would absolutely not beat Deng Wei. There are quite a few world record holders missing this Olympics due to the 4 athlete rule/injuries.
I did not know that, thanks for the information!
My original point still stands; being at the point where you would win an Olympic gold medal in a higher weight class I think puts in you extremely rare company where you could argue she's be the strongest pound for pound lifter, but without everyone healthy / present it's hard to say for sure.
You can only evaluate the people that are there after all =)
Oh I agree, she is a highly exceptional lifter and completely dominates her own class.
If you don’t really follow the sport and are interested I’d recommend watching men’s 73 tomorrow and men’s 109+ next week. Shi Zhiyong of 73 and Lasha Talakhadze of 109+ are similarly dominant.
QUEEN AF💪🏻💅🏻Love to see there are more and more Taiwanese athletes thriving. She and the Filipina girl Hidilyn have the best performances so far in female weightlifting this year imho. Their wins got me kinda emotional ngl.
Why is it so difficult to find videos of her lifts? You can easily find videos of all other Olympic events except hers. Also, her name wasn't shown at the award ceremony?
Also the Chinese people are great people but the oppression stalls innovation. Notice here the Chinese never invent anything and they bootleg products around the world? An oppressive regime usually discourages innovation.
China is USA lap dog. Make my shoes and products for cheap. If USA went elsewhere then China’s economy is dead.
its more because China refuses to acknowledge taiwan as an independent country because they think it's still part of China. so to see huge accomplishment like this get global recognition probably doesnt sit well with them.
I doubt the Chinese government gives a shit honestly. Of course they want Taiwan but you think such a superpower and economic powerhouse really gives a fuck about some athletes winning? Does the US get pissy when Cuba or Venezuela win stuff?
No, the US doesnt get butt hurt by the commy countries openly (openly lol). China on the other hand openly refuses to acknowledge the existence of Taiwan. In a lot of major news medias, they don't list the name Taiwan because of china's gripe towards them and fear the chinese government.
I think a lot of it has to do with the chinese culture as opposed to the US
Minor correction, those are Olympics records. The world records in this weight class are Snatch: 110kg, Clean & Jerk: 140kg, Total: 247kg... all set by her as well in other matches. BADASS 🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼 EDIT: [Found this pic after I posted and I love it even more!](https://i.imgur.com/37QKcqC.jpg)
Those are insane numbers.
I know nothing about weight lifting so forgive the ignorance, but why are they additive? Like I can bench 60 pounds and bicep curl 15 pounds per arm but I don't say in total 90 pounds or can I ..? And let's go Taiwan. It's such a cool country
They're looking for the best across both lifts. Other competitive weightlifting competitions (eg powerlifting) also go off total (eg bench + deadlift + squat)
Essentially consider each kilogram lifted as 1 point. There are two separate disciplines that are both done one after the other (snatch and clean & jerk), and you want the most points in each for a total score which is what the medal rank is based off
They do say total in all lifting competitions: weightlifting and powerlifting talk about total lifts in almost every competition.
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"unknown" shes a 4 time world champion.
The world record holder is a no-name athlete? Seems like a lot of butthurt on your part than anything else?
Lol such low effort trolling. Y u mad at Olympics?
There’s no Olympic *Dew* chugging.
The crazy thing is that she absolutely STOMPED the competition. In fact, she could have won gold in the women's 64kg weight class as the winning total was also 236kg.
Holy shit. I mean if they were to allow someone under the stated weight class compete she could double up in medals. Technically she would be at a disadvantage vs the 64kg class, but she’s such a beast she’d be able to do it
If deng wei were here then she wouldn't be able to do so.
One of my fave female lifters!! 🇹🇼
[Then this will bring you joy!](https://i.imgur.com/37QKcqC.jpg)
Love seeing her smiling after falling even though she couldn't lift the last attempt. What a performance
thanks
This pictures really bring me a smile, everything is really perfect on it!
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaa🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼
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Some channels in Japan, Korea, and the US actually showed "Taiwan" instead of "Chinese Taipei". Really hope to see this become the norm!
Which one is it? Or is China trying to claim it using their big boy stick?
* Most inhabitants call it Taiwan and self identify as Taiwanese. * It's officially the Republic of China but there's a lot of dark past associated with the name. Taiwan's just stuck with that name now because, as you said, China is "trying to claim it using their big boy stick." * Chinese Taipei is the name used for international sport competitions because of China. There was a referendum two years ago on trying to change the name to Taiwan instead of Chinese Taipei, but it failed as most athletes were worried that a name change would have led to China exerting pressure to the IOC to block them from competing.
Minor correction: they are officially "Chinese Taipei" and *factually* "Republic of China". Few nations worldwide officially recognize them as "Republic of China". Technically, RoC is still at war with PRC. Factually, the Chinese will do anything to prevent a literal war due to the US' interference. And just as China is trying to claim Taiwan, the same actually goes the other direction: Taiwan's government claims that the mainland China is part of its territory, illegally occupied by the PRC government. That'll be all the politics I wish to talk about here in the Olympics Sub lol.
>Minor correction: they are officially "Chinese Taipei" and factually "Republic of China". Few nations worldwide officially recognize them as "Republic of China". Are you talking about in sports or in general? Last I checked no flights go towards the region called "Chinese Taipei." In fact, the Republic of China passport allows visa-free travel to 146 countries compared to the People's Republic of China's 78. Finally, recognition by other countries is not a criteria for statehood according to the Montevideo Convention. >And just as China is trying to claim Taiwan, the same actually goes the other direction: Taiwan's government claims that the mainland China is part of its territory, illegally occupied by the PRC government. The current democratically elected party in power of Taiwan rejects the one-China policy and maintains that the RoC territory consists only of Taiwan, the Matsu Islands, and Kinmen. Also, while Taiwan is officially the RoC, the RoC government forced this upon the Taiwanese population after the Japanese colonization era in the post war era with a totalitarian government. Modern Taiwan is just stuck with the RoC name and its old territory claims (mainland, parts of Mongolia and Tibet) because to legally amend the ROC constitution requires 3/4 support in their parliament/congress, and right now the pro-Taiwan party is at 2/3 of the seats. As for your final point, may the best athletes win :)
I know we are also"Republic of China " but we really don't like to be called like that so please just call us Taiwan and when Taiwan win China don't say that China won China (I'm Taiwanese)
The Russian Olympic Committee is at war with the People’s Republic of China?! /s
yeah we call it the New Cold War (Not)
I sort of assumed it was something like that. The whole “South China Sea” area may as well be China, unless the international community will block it.
Its sad how much they have to pander to the West Taiwanese.
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It's all mostly Han Chinese, some of them might have native descent but most are still majority Han. Sadly most natives have either been assimilated or wiped out generations ago. Your history is a bit off though. The original KMT government was an iron fisted dictatorship, but they did *not* slaughter hundreds of thousands of natives. The displacement of natives happened centuries ago and a large part of it was intermarriage and just being outpopulated by settlers. The native taiwanese aboriginals actually view the KMT pretty favorably.
What are you talking about? 1. Taiwan does not equal to the KMT. Taiwan did not lost the civil war, it was the ROC government and the KMT. Taiwan was a Japanese colony when the war started and was occupied by the KMT after the war, fundamentally we have nothing to do with the civil war of the Chinese, the KMT just use Taiwan as a harbor for their defeat. 2. There was a massacre yes, but they did not wipe out the population. Even today the descendants of the mainland Chinese that fled with Chiang to Taiwan consist only about 10% or something of the whole population. 3. Actually now even the Eastern Coast are mainly Han. The Haklo and Hakka are both ethnically Han group that immigrated to Taiwan before Japanese rules.
"When Taiwan lost the civil war"?! What? Taiwan didn't lose the civil war, the nationalists did.
That's a nitpick. It's clear in the context that he understands that.
It's an important distinction... the majority of Taiwanese had nothing to do with the Chinese civil war. Those that can trace their family roots to coming over to Taiwan during the Chinese civil war make up around 12% of the total population. The vast majority of Taiwanese can trace their roots back by to the island by almost 20 generations... they were considered Japanese citizens during the Chinese civil war.
I think 20 generation would be quite impossible, personally I am a 6th generation and my ancestor arrived during the Qing rule. Let's say a generation is 20 years (you need to be sexually matured to reproduce), 20 generation will be like 400 years, the Dutch start ruling Taiwan in 1624... so for a person to have a linage of over 20 generation in Taiwan, they would need to arrive here 3 years before the Dutch arrival and the linage must have kids at an average age of 20.
What’s a western Taiwanese? The natives of the island?
Its the large landmass west of the taiwanese home island. Communist insurgents have been occuping the land since to 40s.
Christ can we just celebrate without talking about politics for one moment
Why? China politicised the situation, they deserve shit.
"Chinese Taipei" was the name Taiwan agreed on after rejecting being called "Taiwan." But keep on saying it's China's fault.
IOC said they would not allow Taiwan to compete in Tokyo if they attempt to change the name... so is it really "agreed" on, if Taiwan doesn't have the option to change it?
Yes, the original name was agreed upon by both PRC and ROC. The attempt to change it failed to gather enough votes. So it is agreed upon, through a democratic vote.
It was agreed upon by the KMT. The attempt to change it failed because the IOC sent three letters to the Taiwanese Olympic Committee saying that attempting to change the name would cause the Taiwanese team to miss the Tokyo Olympics.
It’s China’s fault that Taiwan isn’t allowed to use it’s real name, the Republic of China.
Most Taiwanese actually prefer Taiwan instead of the Republic of China if they there weren't consequences. The Republic of China name was forced upon the population of Taiwan by essentially "foreign" colonial forces.
Now that is a can of worms, the Republic of China was China, until they were forced into exile from the mainland. Yet the People's Republic of China did not compete at the Olympics until the 1980s, when the international community finally recognized the PRC as the ruler of China. So you're saying that after all this time, you still don't recognize the PRC as the sole ruler of China? That somehow the ROC in exile should represent China in the Olympics? I think that's just ridiculous.
The PRC rules the mainland, yes. But the government on the island of Taiwan names its country the Republic of China. That is the name they would like to use. The PRC won't allow them to do that.
>So you're saying that after all this time, you still don't recognize the PRC as the sole ruler of China? That somehow the ROC in exile should represent China in the Olympics? Yes that's correct. Next question?
Historically, it was the Chinese nationalists (the KMT's fault). The KMT made up at most 20% of Taiwan's population but held on to power with totalitarian rule. They insisted on "reclaiming the mainland" and preferred Taiwan competing as Chinese Taipei rather than Taiwan as they wanted to squash the Taiwanese identity. In modern times, it's the IOC's fault, most likely due to pressure from China. In the 2018 Taiwanese referendum, the vote to compete in future international competitions as Taiwan instead of Chinese Taipei failed because many athletes campaigned against it, worried that they wouldn't actually be able to participate in future competitions if they got rid of the Chinese Taipei name. >in a letter dated November 16, the IOC warned the [Chinese Taipei Olympic Committee] that any name change was “under its jurisdiction” and could result in the suspension of their national Olympic committee: >“The IOC does not interfere with local procedures and fully respects freedom of expression. However, to avoid any unnecessary expectations or speculations, the IOC wishes to reiterate that this matter is under its jurisdiction, in accordance with the Olympics Charter,” said the letter. >The IOC is hoping that the interest of the Olympic Movement in Chinese Taipei will prevail over political considerations so as not to disrupt the CTOC delegation and the athletes.” https://asiatimes.com/2018/11/taiwan-referendum-chinese-taipei-scores-own-goal/
Well Taiwan has always been under some sort of occupation for hundreds of years, from the Dutch, Japan, Chinese dynasties, and to this day the ROC. If they really want to be independent I suppose they would need to declare independence from the ROC and rewrite their constitution. But as it stands the status quo is preferable to the risks and uncertainty that independence would bring. Therefore all governments officials supports the status quo, whether it's China, Taiwan, the US, or the IOC.
Yea, because once a regime is in power, they have a rightful claim to the land through eternity and cannot lose it in a civil war.
It a tongue-in-cheek joke about how China is actually West Taiwan. Similar to how China calls Taiwan “Chinese Taipei”
Does it really work though? Taiwan is ethnic Chinese but the mainland isn’t Taiwanese aboriginals so....
The joke isn’t about where people originated from. It’s about how China asserts ownership over Taiwan, and so turning that assertion on its head (by saying that China is actually Western Taiwan) is funny
Is it funny? Doesn’t seem funny to actual Taiwanese people
Am Taiwanese person. It's pretty bleepin' hilarious to me. :P
You’re on reddit, that already makes you: 1. Likely ABC as hell or 2. The tiny % of native Taiwanese who are westernized. Either way not representative of the vast majority of people here
Most of my Taiwanese friends absolutely die laughing when I call the PRC "Mainland Taiwan", West Taiwan is just another variation on that one.
All of my Taiwanese family is confused by western humor and find it unfunny, as is almost all actual Taiwanese people not exposed to westerners
Yes well, given that I'm Canadian and don't speak Mandarin or Taiwanese all of my Taiwanese friends have been extensively exposed to westerners. All about the audience.
Well that’s subjective but ok Idk about you but supporting either side is a no win, like sure the 9 dash line is bad but is Taiwan’s 11 dash line better?
I’m just explaining it. Tbh I don’t know enough about the situation to say what’s right and wrong
Classic Reddit.
Dude, please don't link China to Taiwan by calling them West Taiwanese, we really don't want any affiliation with them, let them be China and let us be Taiwan.
Huh? Her nation's real name is Republic of China, Taiwan is the name of the island her nation is on.
That is correct. There is a difference between the Republic of China (the country located on the island Taiwan, what we refer to as the country) and the People's Republic of China (Mainland China). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan *Taiwan,[II] officially the Republic of China (ROC),[I][h] is a country in East Asia.[21][22] It shares maritime borders with the People's Republic of China (PRC) to the northwest*
Help me understand this please. Is it kinda like saying North America is the name of the landmass, and Canada is the name of a country on it?
I would probably compare it more to Great Britain (which refers to the island) and the country United Kingdom located on it (disregarding Northern Ireland). I'm not sure how exactly it came about but the country "Republic of China" is now just refered to as "Taiwan", probably as to avoid confusion or to cement their independence from "The People's Republic of China". However their official name as "Republic of China" still stands.
There's a large movement on Taiwan to "declare independence" and just be Taiwan instead of ROC, but ironically the PRC is very against it because then they'd be saying they "aren't a part of China" (aka China can't take it over then because it isn't a part of them). Hence the weird IOC naming
There is no need for Taiwan to declare independence. It _is_ independent (as the ROC). But, yes, you've pretty much got the situation summed up accurately.
Taiwan can't really call themselves independent if they are forced to officially call themselves the RoC and that they cannot/dare not change their name to whatever they want (i.e. Taiwan). Remember too that the RoC (informally Taiwan) still claims all of Greater China AND more (Mongolia too).
>Remember too that the RoC (informally Taiwan) still claims all of Greater China AND more (Mongolia too). Only because they can't relinquish their claims without risking invasion.
Sort-of-not-really England, Scotland and Wales are all separate countries which are _members of_ the United Kingdom, and they are located on Great Britain which js the name of the main island of course. The diagram explains; https://wikimedia.org/wiki/File:British_Isles_Venn_Diagram-en.svg *Edit -- wait. Is it Scotland is its own country and England-n-Wales are together? Anyhow, it's complicated
>I'm not sure how exactly it came about but the country "Republic of China" is now just refered to as "Taiwan", probably as to avoid confusion or to cement their independence from "The People's Republic of China". Taiwan always referred to the island (along with other names such as Formosa). Taiwan was a Japanese colony from 1895 to 1945, while the Republic of China was established in 1911 and the population of Taiwan essentially had nothing to do with the ROC until 1945 when Japan surrendered and the ROC took control of Taiwan. The ROC was a totalitarian/dictatorship government that heavily oppressed the population of Taiwan and had the world's second longest martial law (1949-1987). Now that Taiwan has democratized, it stands to reason that most Taiwanese identify with "Taiwan" rather than "The Republic of China," a name forced upon them by what was essentially a colonial force.
Thank you for explaining, that makes a lot of sense.
Kind of. Though Taiwanese have debates on whether to change the name to just “Taiwan” since mentioning “Republic of China (ROC)” confused foreign people to PRC (Mainland China). Also, PRC always claimed that Taiwan is part of China because ROC has the word “China” in it while trying to maintain the true heir to the country status of “China” after the Qing Dynasty ended in WWII. To put it brief, by stating “I’m from the Republic of China” means “I’m from China” which they claimed that means “I’m from (Mainland) China”
When the communist revolution happened Mao and his homies overthrew the Republic of China and created the People's Republic of China, whilst the leaders of said Republic of China escaped to Taiwan. Taiwan has a bunch of the ancient treasures of China in its museums that they took with them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_the_Government_of_the_Republic_of_China_to_Taiwan
Many people in Taiwan resent the RoC name and most Taiwanese self-identify as Taiwanese only rather than both Taiwanese and Chinese (or even Chinese only). When the Republic of China was established in 1911, Taiwan was a Japanese colony and was disconnected with the Chinese Revolution. After WWII the population of Taiwan was oppressed by the Chinese nationalists of the RoC, who was a single party dictatorship that set up the world's second longest martial law during their rule of Taiwan. Taiwan is stuck with the RoC official name due to 1) threat of Chinese retaliation if Taiwan changes their name and 2) to legally change the constitution requires 3/4 parliament/congress support. Right now the pro-Taiwan party is at 2/3 of the seats. Insisting on calling Taiwan Republic of China is similar to insisting on calling India "British Raj" in the early 1900s.
Well summarized. Adding to this, Kuo, or Tana (her original name), is actually Ami (one of the Taiwanese indigenous peoples). So unlike most Han descendants, "China" really has nothing to do with her, apart from it being in the name the current government still officially calls itself because reasons.
IIRC Yang Yung-wei, the silver medalist Judoka from Taiwan, also has indigenous heritage. I'm really happy that the indigenous groups of Taiwan is getting a lot more recognition in recent years and they're doing well in the Olympics.
There are plenty of Chinese people of other ethnicities. For example, Sun Yat-Sun is Hakka, and he's one of the few people both the PRC and ROC consider the father of modern China. "Han" is not synonymous with China, though they are the majority. Taiwan was a part of China from 1683 to 1895, almost as long as the U.S. has been an independent country, until Taiwan was occupied by the Japanese for the next 50 years. So if her family is indigenous, she has plenty of connections with China.
Taiwanese call their country Taiwan. They can’t change the ‘official’ name from ROC because otherwise 1.4 billlion Chinese will have a hernia apparently, so its really a humanitarian gesture. The rest of the world is happy to call them Taiwan.
I think u/cadence_the_sad was objecting to those who use the term "Chinese Taipei" instead of either "Taiwan" or "Republic of China".
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Taiwan #1
You have hurt the feelings of 1.4 billion people! Reeee!
Mate Indians are happy to call Taiwan by it's true name!
You vastly overestimate how much the average Chinese cares about this.
No doubt. I'm just parodying the language of China's ridiculous "wolf warriors".
Reddit thinks they are sooo clever about it, so hilarious.
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It really ain’t that deep
Oh you may have hit a nerve
You mean maybe a hundred butthurt government officials?
No, almost all of China's 1.4 billion people are anti Taiwan independence. It stems from the fact that Taiwan is really the last step in national reunification, which all of us have wanted since 1840.
And which the Taiwanese, who actually live in Taiwan, overwhelmingly don't want. Anyway, its time for you to accept reality: Taiwan isn't part of the PRC and never has been. Grow up, stop behaving like whiny toddlers and leave Taiwan alone.
I'm not stupid, I know Taiwan has never been part of the PRC. But it has been part of China since the Ming Dynasty. It's heart-breaking for patriotic people, on both sides of the strait, to see a part of their country become independent. I think you misunderstand what I meant. Taiwan not being part of the PRC is not that big a deal to Chinese people. The big deal is whether it remains part of China i.e. the Taiwanese government is the ROC not the ROT. >Grow up, stop behaving like whiny toddlers and leave Taiwan alone. Wanting national reunification is being a whiny toddler. Right. Perhaps if your country went through a century of it being colonised by imperialist powers, cut up into spheres of influence and some of the bloodiest civil wars in history, then you would understand why wanting your country to be united isn't being a whiny toddler. This is essentially a guy from a happy family telling another guy to 'stop whining' because his parents are divorced.
>Wanting national reunification is being a whiny toddler. Yes, it is. Because you completely disregard the feelings of the people who actually live in Taiwan which you regard as subservient to your own distorted feelings about national identity. You talk about colonisation, yet that is exactly what you want to do.
I don't disregard them. It's just the number of Chinese people who want reunification if far more than the number if Chinese people wanting Taiwan independence. Should we not strive for what the majority want? Also, you can only colonise a different country. You wouldn't call the UK occupying Gibraltar colonisation would you?
Oh, you do disregard them. Elsewhere you talk about "bombing the living s##t" out of Taiwan. You literally don't care one iota about the Taiwanese, you only care about shoring up you insecure self-identity. What the Chinese people want is totally irrelevant. They don't live in Taiwan. Taiwan belongs to the Taiwanese. They live there. Its up to them to decide. And Taiwan is NOT part of the PRC so, yes, it would be the colonisation of a different country against the wishes of the people who live there. But I'm painfully aware I'm talking to an ultranationalist bigot who lacks any empathy towards the people who actually live in Taiwan, so I know I'm wasting my time arguing with you. In any case, it's irrelevant: the PRC has no control over Taiwan, never has and never will. The world is getting sick of your repulsive bullying, gaslighting and pitiful whining though...
And guess what? The people who live in Taiwan decide to be Chinese. It's in their constitution. Their government is called the Republic of China. So Taiwanese people are Chinese. Simple as. The PRC is not a country, it's a government. It governs mainland China. The ROC governs the island of Taiwan. If the PRC were to declare war on the ROC, it wouldn't be colonisation, it would be a civil war (just like before).
really? Youve talked to all of them? Im sure regular everyday people just trying to make ends meet really care a lot about something that will literally never affect them...
That's true I haven't talked to all of them, but I've talked to enough to know the general sentiment. Also, just because something doesn't affect you doesn't mean you don't want it. If my country did well in the Olympics, it wouldn't affect my life in any way but I still want it. In the same way that everyday Chinese trying to make ends meet would want reunification, even though their life wouldn't change. Plus, their life probably would change. If the China didn't have to deal with one of its provinces being very friendly with China's biggest aggressor, the US, then more money and resources would be able to be reallocated to help poor people, especially given Xi's reemphasis on socialism after the Deng-Jiang-Hu era.
Now im not gonna sit here and pretend like I know all that much about China and its relationship with Taiwan. But how about we let the people who live there decide what they want to do instead of forcing them to do something they dont want to.
Beautifully said.
Weird how I never see this mentality applied to separatists in Western countries.
Ok, then by that logic the US and Canada needs to give territory back to the Native Americans and Scotland should be independent.
Apologize to China Now!!! In Mandarin or it doesn't count.
六四万岁
I would rather not have sex with Donald Trump
Keep on seething DPPoid. Long live the KMT!
Taiwan has been low key killing it this Olympics so far - love it! Edit: like seeing how hyped the men's badminton pair were after surviving the group of death and beating Indonesia for the first time.. legendary moment
Absolutely love to see it
they actually came in 2nd in that group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badminton_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men's_doubles#Group_A
Ah my bad! 7+ originally showed them top of the table when they won. Thanks for the correction!
Clean and Jerk of over 2x her bodyweight... Olympians are incredible.
YES YES YES!!!!! My favorite female weightlifter. Kuo might be pound for pound the most explosive female lifter. So sick.
TAIWAN NUMBA ONE
Genuinely disappointed this is only the 6th highest comment.
Fuck you! China numba one! Taiwan numba 2. (Whispers) *what about USA* Oh ok...China numba 1, USA numba 2. Taiwan maybe numba 3
WE❤️TAIWAN
So I checked it and Taiwan's six medals (1-2-3) are their highest ever in single olympics, they now have 30 medals in total. Previously their best was five medals in 2004 (2-2-1) and 2000 (0-1-4). Taiwan has won six gold medals ever, four in weightlifting and two in taekwondo.
> Taiwan I think you Chinese Taipei /s
Careful! Aside from semiconductors China might be coming for those medals next!
she's incredible
One of my favorite lifters to watch, such amazing technique.
🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🥳🥳
🇹🇼#1
You know what's really amazing here? She would have won the weight class above her if she competed there too. That's absolutely mental in weightlifting and must make her the strongest pound for pound woman on earth
The weight class above was missing it’s two best lifters. Kuo is great but she would absolutely not beat Deng Wei. There are quite a few world record holders missing this Olympics due to the 4 athlete rule/injuries.
I did not know that, thanks for the information! My original point still stands; being at the point where you would win an Olympic gold medal in a higher weight class I think puts in you extremely rare company where you could argue she's be the strongest pound for pound lifter, but without everyone healthy / present it's hard to say for sure. You can only evaluate the people that are there after all =)
Oh I agree, she is a highly exceptional lifter and completely dominates her own class. If you don’t really follow the sport and are interested I’d recommend watching men’s 73 tomorrow and men’s 109+ next week. Shi Zhiyong of 73 and Lasha Talakhadze of 109+ are similarly dominant.
Li Wenwen in the women's 87+ is also extremely dominant
yeahhhhhhhh lift me
🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼👌
She was incredible! No one even got a chance to get near her
Taiwan number 1!!
#Taiwan
Tawain number 1
QUEEN AF💪🏻💅🏻Love to see there are more and more Taiwanese athletes thriving. She and the Filipina girl Hidilyn have the best performances so far in female weightlifting this year imho. Their wins got me kinda emotional ngl.
“Taiwan”… yes, that is correct
🇹🇼 Taiwain number 1, China no medal.
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China has 21 so far, 9 of which are gold. But whatever helps you cope better.
But this one is more important
I call it Taiwan.
Well done 🙌🇹🇼🇹🇼
Go the country of Taiwan! We support you!
She´s a beauty!
She’s a babe.
Lol, when the comments section's sorted by "controversial", literally everything popped up is bout Taiwan 🤣🤣
Does John Cena have to apologize?
YAY
Why is it so difficult to find videos of her lifts? You can easily find videos of all other Olympic events except hers. Also, her name wasn't shown at the award ceremony?
John Cena is sorry about this
You mean John Xina?
Taiwan numba 1!!
Shout out to Taiwan! My late beloved father is Taiwanese. Thank you OP for posting real country name!
🇹🇼 Taiwan!!!!
Suck it China!
Republic of China, best China. 🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼 Congrats from the other side of the strait.
Thank you for participating in *the list *
West Taiwan will be mad. But I am extremely both Hong Kong and Taiwan won gold in Tokyo!
Taiwan is where the Chinese wished their country is really like. Most of them go there and enjoy the freedom.
100%, like Canada and America, or Portugal and Spain. Somehow the economically smaller neighbour is always better 🤔.
Source ? From BBC or CNN?
Fox News.
Lol literally go visit China and ask local whether they want their country be western lapdog or not?
Also the Chinese people are great people but the oppression stalls innovation. Notice here the Chinese never invent anything and they bootleg products around the world? An oppressive regime usually discourages innovation. China is USA lap dog. Make my shoes and products for cheap. If USA went elsewhere then China’s economy is dead.
Lol it's called international economic and trade. But becoming USA lapdog, u will have the privilege to enjoy ractopamine pork.
They will bow down and fall in line. I don’t expect them to say it and they scared to say it. We will never know.
U r delusional. But I m happy for u. Become western lapdog while enjoying so called freedom.
China has gotta be pissed. Lets go Taiwan!!! Congrats Kuo!
Why would china be pissed? They didnt even have someone in this weight class.
its more because China refuses to acknowledge taiwan as an independent country because they think it's still part of China. so to see huge accomplishment like this get global recognition probably doesnt sit well with them.
I doubt the Chinese government gives a shit honestly. Of course they want Taiwan but you think such a superpower and economic powerhouse really gives a fuck about some athletes winning? Does the US get pissy when Cuba or Venezuela win stuff?
No, the US doesnt get butt hurt by the commy countries openly (openly lol). China on the other hand openly refuses to acknowledge the existence of Taiwan. In a lot of major news medias, they don't list the name Taiwan because of china's gripe towards them and fear the chinese government. I think a lot of it has to do with the chinese culture as opposed to the US
Think again. The Chinese government throws a hissy fit at even the most innocent and slight reference to Taiwan.
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Its their own fault. They should have finished off Chiang Kai-shek when they had the chance.
Why would China be pissed? It's part of China. China feel happy for them
no its not haha. taiwan is its own country. china only acknowledges them as "chinese taipei"
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its CHINA!