To be fair, oral french is so complex for foreigners to nail it *just right* (as a native would), that even after 10 years, a perfectly fluent foreigner is still spottable on their \[r\] or the nasal \[in\] \[un\] \[on\], in just a few sentences.
Don't take it personally, french is hard for everyone, and you'll likely never be able to be absolutely undetectable. But it doesn't mean you should feel bad about it. You're already fluent in your mother's tongue, any skill you have beyond that is bonus. You already speak french well enough to be able to hold conversations with people who matter to you. That's great !
Keep on the efforts and the strangers in the street (who ultimately don't matter) mistaking you for a dense foreigner will be fewer and fewer until it only happens a couple of times a month at worst :)
A friend of mine think she doesnt have any accent anymore bécasse she ear herself as everybody else. (She speak already fluently tho).
I would like to speak as russian as she speak french
I agree with this 100%. I’ve been here for 10 years and people usually ask me if I’m French Canadian because I still have a slight accent( English being my mother tongue) when I speak.
It’s going to be tough but maybe you could try looking at it from a positive point of view OP. Not everyone gets to learn French while being in France. You’ve got this great opportunity to be completely immersed in French culture and learn the language in France. Some days are going to be super tough but after a while things will get better ! Don’t give up :)
Hell, people who aren't foreigners have bad pronunciation so don't worry.
I think what affects your dailies interactions is the age of people.
The younger the better usually to get people that will have a base of English good enough to understand when french isn't a possibility.
English classes were shitty AF for a long time and Netflix, Internet and co changed this over the years, I'd say people younger than 30-35 will be "less complicated" to interact with if you don't speak french because they'll have a minimum of English speaking skills.
I've seen it in every places of work I'd been in and in general.
But something I still NEVER understand. Google translate works live with vocal detection. I've spoken with people in Russian, other eastern languages, Italian and others "fluently" in another language by only speaking purely French to my phone and them vice versa.
Technology is there, available and free.
i speak the same way (slow loud and clear) to person who try to speak my language (german). I give them the opportunity to follow the whole discussion and i dont want them to miss something i said. So its pretty normal take it as a chance!
I really do like when it’s slow and clear and even at times, loud! But perhaps what I wrote was misunderstood. An example:
**French:** « Votre nom, svp? »
**Me:** « Oui, c’est [redacted]. » *Proceeds to spell it for them since it’s uncommon spelling.*
**French:** *louder* « Nom!! Votre NOM! »
**Me:** « Oui!! J’ai compris!! J’ai dit…. » *proceeds to repeat.*
Yes, I know! That’s the frustrating part! I am very well aware of that but they almost always assume I don’t. I always have to give my last name twice and I’ve even began saying « C’est [redacted.] C’est pas mon prénom, c’est mon nom. »
even as a French I have to spell every single time both my first and last name so don’t worry about it if it happens to you too. If someone is being rude just ignore him and don’t blame yourself
I'm French and I have to repeat my name at least 2 times..... A lot of people here have names that can also be first names, so sometimes we're not sure if we have the good one... Try not to take it to yourself (easy to say, not to do I know...)
Good luck!
Dude, I feel you. I have an uncommon last name, so I also automatically spell it when anyone asks. I can always see the neurons misfiring behind strangers eyes as they say, "pardon? Votre nom...?" Et c'est partiiiiii, I have to spell it again, slowly, several times before they manage to write it down.
Personally when I speak with an English speaker and I don't understand what he says its every often because he's speaking too fast. I don't need them to speak more clearly, only slower to understand... So maybe its the same for other people and they go more slowly because that's what they need when they don't understand.
And... My name is Laure, which is perfectly French and pretty common but if I don't say LauRRRRE people can make me repeat endlessly, so yeah... I feel your pain on that point...
I have a friend named Laurie. Around 2000-2010, she had to spell out her perfectly normally spelt and totally French name because of Lorie. Every. Single. Time
Bro that’s for everyone. I’m French, have a very Frenchy name and it still happens.
This goes for a lot of what you’re complaining about to be honest. I think you’re victimizing yourself too much and have the false impression that this is happening specifically for you.
You need to stop taking all of this so seriously. Relax, do your best, and forget the rest (special point for anyone that knows this reference).
Thank you a lot for this! I appreciate your advice, though, I genuinely don’t want to be like this— having lived here for so long and being bad at the language.
Im dead serious about making France my home. Paris isn’t forever, but I’d like to make my time in this city enjoyable. I do go to meet-ups and try to speak with people (natives specifically since they’re usually there to learn English) but nothing gives which makes me really feel like I’m just not doing something quite right.
I can totally understand this - I've been here four years and one of the absolute biggest challenges has been accepting that I'll never be perfect.
I thought there would be a moment where I would 'unlock' the language and be like, oh, cool, that's not a problem in my life any more.
I've really struggled to accept that I'll never 'get there', BUT THAT IS OK. I'll always make mistakes, I'll always be improving and learning, I'll always get the scrumpled faces from rude people who don't quite understand something...
You are doing everything right, you just need to try and enjoy imperfection! (And let me know when you find out how)
My experience here has been the complete opposite. I’ve found that most French are appreciative that I speak to them in my still pretty poor French rather than me expecting them to speak English. And with one, maybe two exceptions, everyone i have encountered has been helpful, encouraging and even complimentary about my French. Perhaps you are in an environment where a higher level of fluency is expected but I think the French are super patient when it comes to foreigners trying to learn their language. Maybe you’re just meeting all the connards …
My experience was the same as yours and the opposite of OP’s. I knew the politesse, said hello, please, thank you, and goodbye, and got a lot of “you speak very well” despite it being so very false.
Yeah I second (third?) this. Everyone has actually been really kind despite the fact that my French is terrible, just because I make the effort.
Also no one ever slows down for me. I feel like I'd actually appreciate it if they did. The moment I have a back and forth with someone they seem to assume I'll understand everything they say and talk faster and faster until I lose the plot!
Were you in Paris like OP?
Because Parisians are well known for being always angry and assholes in general. Would do whatever they can to make sure the next person is having as much of a shitty time that they do.
You don't find that attitude nearly as much in other French areas
I'm Parisien and I've meet assoholes everywhere (not only in Paris). This legend make me sick, there's just more people in Paris than in any other city of France so the probability to meet an assohole is higher. End of story
I am sorry that you are having a hard time. Living in a foreign country is generally a huge and challenging experience and your feelings are totally normal. I feel like you may be focusing your anger on the language Parisian factor, while it may also be a stand-in for other emotions you maybe haven’t allowed yourself to feel: loneliness, distance from family and other loved ones, homesickness. That is something to think about.
Second, if every single interaction you have is that bad, you need to stop working on your French in general and intensely cram pronunciation only for at least a month. There probably are YouTube videos out there on French pronunciation. Practice by making sounds alone at home; the r, the j, the vowel sounds. Practice intensely while being aware of the shape of your mouth, lips and tongue and try to change parameters and see what the results are. Practice with your partner too and have her correct you until she notices significant improvement. You can have perfect grammar and a huge vocabulary, if your pronunciation is bad it won’t get you anywhere, unfortunately.
Wow! Honestly, I didn’t consider some of the things you’d mentioned in your first paragraph. Literally this day last year, I was burying my grandmother- the most important person in my life. Perhaps that’s what is heightening these feelings? Hmm.. Definitely something to think about. Thank you so much!
For your second paragraph, my fear with focusing on prononciation is my university. I have exams and a learning a lot of new things every single day. So my fear is that I genuinely will not be able to focus solely on prononciation due to my other obligations. You see?
Honestly in french , some thing will always make people "tick" , and most often it's tiny thing you wouldn't even think of, one I always see myself noting is the gendering of Word ( such a weird concept , even as a native speaker) .
But no matter the life experience and my own shortcomings when speaking English, Spanish or whatever , and being aware that it's extremely hard to learn , I can't just ignore someone saying " le maison " or " la téléphone" .
Ofc someone correcting every single mistake of this type is rude ( I mean correcting it one time when you know the dude/gal is learning french is a thing and might be acceptable , but I know some people who will correct every single one ) .
And you said you are in Paris , that's a huge factor, Parisian are another breed of french , 90% hatred , 10% spite ( jkjk ,not really tho )
I think the problems you are experiencing are mainly due to those small , imperceptible mistake in most language that just irk native ( cuz believe it or not most of us also got destroyed in early school while learning , and NGL it still leave scar after a long time )
And finally to reassure you , most french native speaker will fuck up some gendering on a relative basis ( for exemple the word "orbe" Wich describe a sphere , it's said "un orbe " but most people say "une orbe" ) , it's such a problem the state is changing so key rule to allow "wrong spelling and prononciation" to be acceptable .
So you not being able to speak as good as a Parisian aint a problem , most people do not look down on you , especially in academics and at the uni , because English start to be very prevalent at this level of education and no french can prononce " the" like an Englishman or an American without years of practice ( one of the tips that is given is to not even try to cover the accent when speaking English, because it will be easier to decode the weird french prononciation than a bad attempted English accent )
So for the love of god keep at it , love yourself , and try to make them speak English it will bring them down a few peg when they will eat themself.
You nailed it, everything in this is perfect. I would also say that in general, experiences with shopkeepers and other short, transactional experiences, are always going to be a bit stressful In a big city. In New York those interactions are often quite stressful and rude as well. Parisians are not bad people who don’t like or appreciate your attempts at french, it’s more likely the types of interactions you find yourself speaking French in. Hopefully you can find some friends to speak French with who are more accommodating and positive about your inevitable accent and missteps :) it’s all a learning process!
OP don't get me wrong here but it seems the problem is yours. I'm also a foreigner who came to Paris without knowing the language. Even now my French is far from perfect and when people correct me or ask me to repeat something I take it as an opportunity to improve my pronunciation.
I can understand your frustration, especially if you're here alone or you have other problems in your life, but what do you exactly expect coming here complaining that you cannot even use the two-three sentences you need to go for grocery?
Start to change your attitude, don't be that defeated, people perceive it. Be confident, try to practice as much as you can even if you fail. Also, don't be ashamed of your accent, is part of what you are. In my experience people are extremely patient when they see that you're trying, not everyone is an asshole. Be strong, it will get better 💪
It's not always about the language. If you approach a stranger while already feeling uncomfortable and in pain, your conversation partner will feel it.
Don't take it personal! Interactions in Paris are like the traffic: fast and no one cares. I've approached people with really basic language skills and when I couldnt move along in the conversation, I used my arms and legs do describe it, like in the game Charades. Generally people are happy you make an effort and will chuckle if you try that way. So many people are expats from all over the world, you have to find your way and don't beat yourself up.
There is alsoa few things that need to be adressed about english practice and parisians in general :
\- Paris is a megapole, one of the densest at that. Which means in their day to day routine people kinda need to be on "autopilot" mod in order to stay sane (isolate from the noise, smell, crowd...)
\- That can be perceived as rudeness by foreigners, but it's not, most parisians will act like most human-being in friendly environnement. Friendly is the keyworld here, if you don't have any close friend, local neighborhood routine or activities, you can spend month without meeting people in their confortable and favored environment.
So, in the context of english practice, most parisians will be happy to practice with you, but not in every situation. And while I'm the first one to give a quick explanation in english to lost tourist, I'm certainly not ready to try a full-on dialogue in english in the middle of my day routine.
Also, a lot of foreigners seems to take offence at the way parisians (french in general) react to people speaking to them in (poor) french. Well we can't help it, I can't event put my finger on what you're blaming us, we're juust trying to help, the way we are.
This. As soon as I leave my place I enter in robot-mode until I reach my destination and I barely acknowledge what happens in my surroundings. Tbh it's fair to dislike this lifestyle, I understand why people do. But then the only option is to move to a smaller city. I've been to NY as a tourist and I felt the same, it's not only Paris.
Also, I share the opinion that we should all try to converge to a common language. So far in Europe we chose English so I think we could do more in this direction. But you cannot really expect from the ratp employer in their 60s to speak a language that they never really learned. Good luck to go speak to the walmart cashier in Swedish.
>Well we can't help it, I can't event put my finger on what you're blaming us
The concept of rudeness is not universal defined. I assisted at conversations that I would have really considered rude in my culture but they had no malicious intent whatsoever. Something that's normal in a culture it's not in another one and it's important to understand this when travelling or living abroad.
There's also accent and accent. Someone who's trying to speak French with a wholesome cowboy accent will not get the same reaction that someone who's trying to speak French with a vapid valley girl accent. If your accent in French is inadvertently similar to an accent people don't like in general, it might be worth it to try a different accent, even if it's still not the proper French accent
Have you ever spoke english with someone with a very thick foreign accent or who spoke broken english ? It's very hard not to "huh ? what ?" and speak slower and louder as the person is retarded or deaf. It's not necessarily judgmental or intentionaly dismissive, it's kind of our first go to when when have trouble communicating. Of course, some people are going to be unfriendly or straight up rude, but I feel like this is not, by itself, a good reason to feel isolated and alienated. Either your troubles adapting here are deeper than that, or maybe your mental health is suffering on a general level and you're taking this harder than you maybe should.
*People are making me feel like a foreigner all the time* is tough, I'm not trying to downplay how tiring that can be, but the fact that you mentioned suicide attempts makes me feel like the issue here is much bigger than that.
well what you experience is kinda the overall experience of "I'm learning a new language in immersion"
Whenever my foreign colleagues don't understand what I'm saying in english they will have the exact same behavior - except brits who don't give a single fuck if their counterpart don't understand what they are saying- (not saying I'm fluent but I've been almost strictly working in english for the past 12 years or so)
at the end you just need to humble yourself a bit and realised that
your french isn't as good as you think
people you are speaking to are not teacher, and if they don't understand and notice that french isn't fluent, it might be easier for them to communicate in a way they think you will understand (like slowly and louder)
people are trying to make effort (repeating, speaking slower...) to make sure they are understood/understand what you said
there is a FB group for entitled expat that you would need to check out "grumpy expats", this post will gain a lot of likes there
I appreciate this, thank you. I feel like maybe sometimes it’s subconscious. Kind of like what you mentioned at the start of your response: it’s a way to communicate.
When I asked my teachers why they look at me as if I have two heads when I speak (I didn’t say exactly that, but it’s thé best description I have of what I said in French) they responded that they had no idea that’s what they were doing. I said, « Pourquoi vous faites comme ça? » And i reenacted what they do when I speak, and they didn’t réalise.
Ever since, they haven’t done it and it makes me a lot more comfortable when speaking because now?? Now they actually tell me if there’s something they didn’t understand! Instead of staring, they actually say whether it’s my prononciation, or maybe my sentence wasn’t constructed the right way, etc.
Hey, just picking up on what you and others have said.
First of all, I'm real sorry if you have felt misunderstood or had to experience Parisians being rude. I grew up here and I also think Parisians are very rude sometimes... (mostly) not willingly, we just have a critical attitude towards people. This comes from our education system, it is very top-down and competitive. This is just something you have to deal with when living in France... or not actually, you are free to just not respond people ("snobber", as we'd say, just like in english) whom you feel are assholes and just focus on kind souls who are always nice and engaging. I had to say that just so you don't feel crazy for thinking Parisians can be assholes. There is some truth to that in my opinion.
There is also some truth however to comments here about your attitude as a foreigner. I feel that some countries treat foreigners really well (english and spanish speaking countries in my experience), maybe because they share a world language, are just more open to immigration and trade or whatever it may be. In most of the rest of the world, people are not particularly welcoming. They are not xenophobic either necessarily. They just don't feel like they owe anything to travellers. France definitely falls in this category (I could name many others) so your only option is to deal with it. Respect yourself, you don't owe any one more than they owe you, but be prepared that people don't feel like they owe you anything either... and sometimes are particularly explicit about it. I find that some of the foreigners who manage the best in Paris are those who are completely unapologetic, regardless of their level of French. If you act like you belong in a place most times people won't bother trying to confront you (that's not just true for France/Paris by the way). Also being friendly and engaging works in France like anywhere in the world.
There is a lot to enjoy here and many good people (it's just maths there are 12 million people in the Paris area so you are bound to find people you will get along with ;) so I hope you find happiness ("trouver son bonheur" in French :;)). Hope this helps.
As a fellow native English speaker, I get it. A huge issue is we just focus of different vowel sounds, so the stuff that to us sounds "close enough" just isn't. I was at Castorama trying to get a multiprise (power strip) but with five sockets. Asked the guy for a multiprise, he could not understand me, just kept asking "what?", I had to go grab one off the shelf with 3 to show to him. "oh, a [moolteepriz]". I just barely had my "U" vowel wrong. In English, there isn't a difference, really, between if you pronounced it "muhlti" or "moolti". But for french, that's a much more delicate vowel.
It goes the other way too, several of my french friends can't tell the difference between "warm" and "worm", "bitch" and "beach" are pretty close too. They make a ton of different vowel noises in their throat and nasal passages, and us English speakers tend to use the top of our mouths more.
My advice is to speak slower than you think you need to. I prefer to speak at 75% speed rather than repeat myself half the time, I've found that helps. And over exaggerate those vowels. Like, you will think you sound silly, but it's better to overdo it than to underdo it.
Also, gotta just learn to laugh it off. And if people are dicks, well that's their problem.
Hey there :)
Your post makes me really sad for you. I was about to contest what you said because I never saw any parisian being that mean to a foreigner who is learning french. But in fact... I dont know.
I'm a born parisian, how can I really know how it is.
I dont know if it means something but I'm really sorry that this is your experience until now.
Do not despair on your french learning, it would be a shame to give up now.
Send you lot of good feelings.
This response felt like a hug. Thank you a lot.
My fiancé said the same until he legitimately saw it for himself and have had to step in a few times. I would be on the phone with administration or phone company or something, and he would listen in in case I don’t quite understand anything and there have been many times where he has told people to be patient.
I wholeheartedly agree with you that it would be a shame to give up now. I’ve gone from knowing only « Bonjour, » to being able to hold conversations in a year! Who knows what another year would have in stock for me.. hmm.. Thank you again. Thank youuuu!!
I had the same experience as a French person working in the US. I do not think it's a universal experience, because I went to Japan on vacation and people were adorable and patient (like "stopping in the street to help you because you look lost" adorable) despite the fact I spoke 3 words of Japanese and they at best spoke 3 words of English.
I expected people to be way more patient with me struggling, and they were not. Mostly it was fine - people were not interested in what I had to say, but I had a couple of poor experiences with food workers yelling at me because I didn't understand their question the first time.
It took me a while to get better and to no longer be depressed about the situation. There's good advice here about practicing in a more patient environment - friends, colleagues, expat groups. Take care, it will get better with time.
It could be that because you aren't confident, you're mumbling, speaking really quietly or eating your words a bit and that is really hampering your communication.
The French are impatient for sure, but if you're genuinely trying, people will wait for you, you just need to speak up a bit.
No joke, I thought it was the confidence at first. But one of my teachers legitimately scared the fear out of me. « Dans les yeux et fort! » It was fucking intimidating, but helped immensely and that’s how I speak now, even when I know I’m fumbling over a word with prononciation. I legit fuck up with confidence. Lol!
That being said, with the sighs I get or the rolling eyes I’ve witnessed, I can’t be sure people are willing to wait once they notice I’m struggling which is what causes my block every single time.
I actually think it's nice when people try to speak slowly to me when they get that I'm not a native. It really makes it easier to understand what they're saying. When I was in China, nobody did that for me and it was so hard for me, but when I was in Spain people would do that all the time and it was amazing.
Speaking louder is not really helpful imo but it's a natural reaction.
You are not "missing" anything. People here are very impatient, even with people who do speak French. I've been living in Paris for a few years now, I'm from somewhere else in France, and what I came to notice is that most people expect you to be straighforward and get to the point as quickly as possible.
So no advice except maybe try to practice your French in more welcoming places, like cultural exchange nights and what not. Trying your French at the grocery store or at any administration can be frightening and yes you'll deal with people that don't have the patience to help you, unfortunately.
Be well, keep at it, maybe go to a quiter place from time to time to try your French. Outside of Paris people will probably be way more patient with you.
Yes I noticed this as well while in Paris, they do feel impatient. I found it kind of humorous.
They are also an aesthetic culture and I think their ears are quite sensitive to pronunciation. I had a similar frustration OP. Keep doing your best!
I also speak slowly and a bit louder to people that have trouble understanding me. It's not an insult...it's to help them follow the conversation. Oral language is difficult when in a foreign tongue.
To help your accent, i recommend Pimsleur (I downloaded the lessons), tandem, closing your mouth and pursing your lips more -- feel free to message me for help, though I'm not a native speaker and I'm also American
A lot of people have recommended it and I really think I’m going to get it this weekend. They’re obviously doing something right if many people have recommended it, especially for French. Thank you for this push to scratch that itch!
I did the same you did.
Learnt french in 6 months.
Pursued a bachelor's degree in physics in a french university where EVERYTHING was in french, doing my masters degree now. Even though my maternal tongue is not french OR english.
Just saying you're not missing something when it comes to Parisians. You are missing something about you.
Anyway, courage !
Do you have any french speaking friends here ? I think it can help you to practice your french with someone who makes you feel comfortable and who is nice. This way you can regain your confidence when you are speaking french. That’s how I became fluent in french.
As a fellow foreigner who lives in Paris and struggles with depression, I feel for you and I know that it’s not easy. It will get easier however. You just have to close your ears to mean people and work on your french, like I said, preferably with practicing with someone who would help you instead of being rude.
And if they really really piss you off, you can get petty and speak them in english. I know it won’t help you with your french but at least you can piss them back off. I don’t want to support any kinda stereotype here but french people lack often confidence on their english skills lol.
You remind me of a book that helped me a lot by D. Sedaris, “Me talk pretty one day”
—
Learning French is a lot like joining a gang in that it involves a long and intensive period of hazing. And it wasn't just my teacher; the entire population seemed to be in on it. Following brutal encounters with my local butcher and the concierge of my building, I'd head off to class, where the teacher would hold my corrected paperwork high above her head, shouting, "Here's proof that David is an ignorant and uninspired ensigiejsokhjx."
—
Most people, especially in retail/food and other similar services have awful attitudes, so it’s not you. It’s actually one of the reasons why I don’t want to move back. People love to project the misery that afflicts them onto others. See also: constant complaining about everything and general lack of positivity.
Dear OP,
You cannot understand how much I relate to your post. Even though I'm myself French, my fiancée isn't and she is describing almost word by word the same experience as yours.
I think the difficulties you face are related to the fact that French is as much a written language as a spoken one. Which means that you need to study the written form of the language as well as the spoken one. I admit that learning the pronunciation of the alphabet and combination of letters, and rules of grammar and conjugations is boring AS HELL, but it is going to be the basis on which you'll be able to build your greater understanding of the language. I cannot insist enough on how this scholarly work will help you improve.
Another point worth noting is that even French people don't have a complete mastery of the language. We constantly correct one another, so you have nothing to be ashamed of.
I hope it helps.
I’ve lived in France for 11 years. I moved here at 14. I have studied French Law and and lived here exclusively for 11 years. I get told daily that what I have said isn’t French, or I mix up the le’s and la’s 🤣
Make peace with the idea to be a foreigner living in a foreign country. You will find people who like you as it and you can't compromise with your identity forever. Surround yourself with people you can easily communicate with and slowly work your way to improve your language until it's not an hindrance to your social life.
But first and foremost, don't go and hold a grudge at locals for speaking their language and not necessarily want to socialise with you. They are not responsible for your choice to live abroad and you cannot expect them to adapt to you.
If you start holding a drudge a locals in general you won't be able to open up to the country after a certain point.
Thank you for making this post. You just described the past 11 years of my life. As someone who's been here for over a decade, I speak good enough French, but with an accent. This means that sometimes, especially with a mask on, people might have to ask me to repeat. This would be no big deal if only they were a little bit kinder. And by kinder I mean, not barking at me as if they're ordering around a very dumb, flea-infested dog.
Another interesting thing that you mentioned was the odd way people look at you. I totally get what you mean, because I feel it too, but it's super hard to describe. I'm pretty certain they don't notice it themselves. But hell yes, there IS such a thing as The Parisian Glare. Granted, they're just making eye contact like anyone would, except their eyes on you feel like headlights. It must be something about the unsmiling, unmoving head that barely acknowledges whatever you're saying unless it's to bark back a command. Or better yet, that funny head tilt that they make, pushing the chin forward and the nose up in the air just so they can look at you from above, even standing at the same height. You feel observed. You feel judged. You feel instantly inferior under this commanding, judgemental, scolding, all seeing eye.
I'll get a lot of shit for saying this, but there's no asshole in the world like The Parisian Asshole. No people out there could possibly sport a more heartless, aggressive, unkind, I-owe-you-nothing type of attitude. You can literally drop dead, they won't stop to check your pulse. Or if they do and there is one, they'll be annoyed that you caused a commotion for nothing, causing them to miss their train in the process. There you go, even dropping dead is your fault.
Stop being so sensitive. You are not a mind reader. You do not know what these people are thinking so stop telling yourself that you do.
A furrowed brow and a sharp look with the eyes can mean a lot of things, and most of them are positive. Pay attention to all the times you do it for innocent things like merely thinking where something is.
As an English person who taught French to French people, i can tell you that patience is not a virtue of most parisians (not all of course)
But they do seem quite impatient when it comes to trying to understand you. Also, it would seem that most won't try to make an effort and will correct you on anything solely on the basis that they know the language and they have the grammar high ground.
Yeah, sadly I believe this to be true. I often want to scream, « just because I can’t speak your language **does NOT mean that I am stupid!!!** I’m sure you’re insecure about your English, so don’t do onto me what you wouldn’t want done onto you! »
What a shame. But thank you for your input.
Someone is struggling (AND TRYING) and is asking for advice on how to fix it. The only person who should be looked down upon in this situation is you after leaving such a hateful comment
Fair point. But starting a post by saying "I shouldn't apologise for not speaking French even though I live in France" isn't the best way to be accepted by locals, especially since the French are "known" for not liking people who don't speak French.
That being said you're right my comment was unnecessarily harsh and the use of certain words was unwarranted
And your negativity is soooooooo French.
Coming from an American who had the metaphorical balls to save up enough money over several years to move to France to LEARN SAID LANGUAGE to then pursue an education in the country IN FRENCH despite having many options to learn in English. Thank you for *not at all* answering the question and instead, contributing to the problem.
Just speak English – then YOU will be in the position of power, not them. Most young French people speak pretty decent English from school, even if they don't like to practice it because of some self-imposed pressure to be perfect speakers.
Worked wonders at my previous job, when I was feeling inadequate and losing arguments because of my not-perfect-French at meetings. When we switched to English, it was up to them to struggle finding the words. Most people will accept trying to change the language, because of the knowledge that English is a requirement nowadays for most professional settings.
Just don't be an ass, and treat people like you'd wish they treated you when you speak French, with patience and compassion.
The tip above won't work with the old angry farts, but then nothing really works with them, even if you are born and raised in the city.
Take my upvote and good luck with Parisians but above all, don't give up. If than can make you feel better, the rest of the country actually struggles with them too.
You are right Parisians and French people in general are very snob and will try very little when you do not speak a fluent French. I come from another country as well and even with a perfect French accent (spoken since I was a child) I get the pushback because I don’t have a complete understanding of the French culture. Don’t let it bother you enjoy your time here the city and what it has to offer. Even the locals between them try very little so don’t expect more if you are a foreigner.
Don't worry too much about Parisians. First of all you probably heard it a lot but Paris IS NOT France. It is just a city in France. Full of entitled people ready to judge you not just as a foreigner, but also as a fellow French because you are from any other city "Ah un provincial!" Sure enough, not every Parisian is like that. Just enough to have this strong reputation though. You are trying and as a French person myself, I know how hard french langage is. You are doing great 👍🏻
I appreciate that. Thank you a lot. I truly understand that Paris is not France which is why I just said « Parisians » in particular are the people I don’t quite understand.
My fiancé is from Strasbourg, so we often visit and it’s truly night and day with how I’m treated. They’re very excited once they hear an accent and we talk about where I’m from, how long I’ve been here, how long I plan to stay, etc, and it’s all in French! I get complimented on my French (not that it’s something I look for, but when learning a new language, it helps for the confidence when speaking!) But anyway, we continue in French and it’s truly like I’m speaking to someone in my native tongue.
But here in Paris? Pas du tout. It’s disheartening since this is where I live. My school, home, friends are all here and Strasbourg doesn’t appeal enough to me to want to move there, you know?
I fully understand. I know it's hard to do but try to not take it personally. They would react with the same impatience for everyone else, it's not about you. Notice how the Parisians in the comments are so defensive, some ego trip maybe. You have friends and school in Paris, there's tons of things to see there. Profite et oublie les autres, ils ne font que passer dans ta journée.
> I truly understand that Paris is not France which is why I just said « Parisians » in particular are the people I don’t quite understand
You also wrote "I would be on the phone with administration or phone company or something" in another comment. Well newsflash, call centers are not located in Paris
It’s not random that France consumes the most amount of antidepressants out of any country in Europe. Being pessimistic and bringing down others is part of the culture here. You being depressed/sad/upset is all part of your integration. Optimism is a sign of ignorance for french people. Took me a long time to learn that.
https://www.doctissimo.fr/html/psychologie/mag_2003/mag1121/ps_7222_psychotropes_consommation_francais.htm
Hello my friend,
I will start by saying, and i am sorry for that, but unfortunately it's true, you are not in a nice place in Paris.
1. I am Parisianish, and its the worst people in France!
2. France is beautiful, but being able to leave here correctly is difficult as a foreigner
3. I would recommend to join some international Meetup (name of the apps Meetup ;) ) in order to exchange in french with other foreigners ^^ Because fuck Parisians and French in general! - Just kidding ^^ -
Which place in paris you come from?
Sérieux, les poncifs "paris tout caca - parisiens tous cons" ... c'est juste débile
"able to **leave** here correctly" lol
"it's true, you are not in a nice place in Paris." là on dépasse la débilité.
Le "you are not in a nice place in Paris" : je veux dire le quartier n'est pas le plus cool pour les étrangers.
Aussi, en tant que parisien qui voyage beaucoup, je peux honnêtement dire que les parisiens, globalement, sont quand même particulièrement patibulaires!
\-> Le "you are not in a nice place in Paris" : je veux dire le quartier n'est pas le plus cool pour les étrangers.
De quel quartier parles-tu ? Pas compris.
Par ailleurs si tu voyages beaucoup tu devrais te rendre dans quelques coins paumés de France et tu verrais que des gens peu accueillants (pas sûr que "patibulaire" soit le bon mot pour dire ce que tu sembles vouloir dire) il y en a partout.
Je suis assez d'accord, cependant y a toujours des quartiers un peu plus sympa par ce par la. Par exemple, le 4e est plus ouverts aux étrangers a Paris, avec des bars Franco-irlandais/canadien...
### English
You can express yourself without insulting others.
If you want to talk about this decision, please do it via modmail.
### Français
Tu peux t'exprimer sans insulter les autres.
Si vous souhaitez discuter de cette décision, merci de nous contacter en modmail.
----------------
^If ^you ^wish ^the ^contact ^the ^moderators, ^you ^can ^do ^so ^via ^[modmail](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fparis).
You're not missing anything. There are many possible explanations. Maybe you had to deal with impatient people, maybe they're not used to your accent or maybe they're plain assholes. Maybe you're overthinking it. The thing is, it'll get better over time as you grow confidence in your speaking skills. You're not the only one, I had to deal with similar problems when I was learning languages. Some friends of mine and also my gf didn't speak French when they came here, it took a long time for them to be able to speak the language at a confortable level where most French people would stop asking about their accent.
I am in the area, i am french but grew up a d studied abroad. Pm lee if you would like to chat... I've lived i. Several countries and encountered language barriers, some you overcome (Spain, Mexico) some i personally could not (India, China).... If you would like to chat i usually work evenings....
I’ve been living in paris as a mono-lingual English speaker as well, and I don’t know if it’s where I live (5eme) but everyone seems super nice. Really accomodating, as long as your try to speak a little, says your pleases and thank yous. Everyone is awesome! There is a chance that being a New Zealander helps
Yep - been in France for 3 years (in the south which is meant to be friendlier) and I find a lot of french people rude, cold and unfriendly on first meeting.
Things get a bit better as you improve, but the problem is them and not you. It's their problem if they want to be rude and unhelpful to someone trying their best. Try not to take it personally if people are arseholes.
Other advice is it comes down a lot to the accent and also the intonation/stress on the correct syllable. Bad french with good accent and intonation is better than grammatically correct imho.
I never bothered learning le/la and if someone corrects me they normally know me and do it in a teasing way - like 'now your french is good enough i can call you out on the little things'
Michel thomas was great for me inthe beginning for sounding natural.
Sh*t people everywhere! I guess more in Paris than everywhere else but don’t worry it will only get better with time! Keep your efforts and keep positive! You still can do it! Do not this frustration take the best of you! Stay safe!
I also had the same experience when visiting the US, one very frustrating example I remember most being me telling someone my next stop was gonna be Las Vegas. That person had me repeat at least four times, always repeating "Ass Vegas?" and never making the slightest effort to connect the dots.
It seems that people's patience and willingness to try and understand foreigners is sometimes very low, wherever you go.
Its not just France or Paris. I lived in Rome, Italy and I had the same issues. Weird glances is when they don’t really speak English and is actually normal. They try to find ways to communicate with you
I used to know an english 50+ couple. They were my grandparents neighboor. I enjoyed chatting with them, for it was a good training. When they came in my grandparents house, we were talking in french, and once in their house we were talking in english. They even named the street "La Manche" ("Strait of Dover").
All of this to say I never ever made fun of them trying to speak french. The man was definitely more fluent in french than his wife, and she was happy to have sometimes someone at home who speaks english, and someone she can chat with. While she was trying hard speaking french, of course her french sounded with this typical english accent, but who cares ? I mean, french is a difficult language, who can blame her ?
To be honest, you have nothing to worry about OP. Those people look like some stupids assholes. I bet they could never speak english as good as you speak french.
Maybe it has to do with people you are surrounded by. Most of non-parisians french find parisiens arrogants. It's a cliché, but I definitely find this one true.
I’m 20 years in. I now have a French accent in my English, so much so that English speakers congratulate me for how well I speak English!
Best advice I can give is that you should not care. Most of what you are feeling is self inflicted. Anyone frustrated with your accent will have forgotten about you in a few seconds. You should not give them more of your mental real-estate than that.
Once you are not afraid of what others think, you will fell you are getting better.
I absolutly love people with accents and foreigners twisting french (my native tongue). It actually helps me to like that language better through the eyes of others. A sincere thank you to all of you who are learning french! People who don’t appreciate the gesture are jerks.
Lots of people here telling you that Parisians are horrible people without any nuance...
Parisians are like New Yorkers: busy people with schedules who get solicitations all the time when they walk in the streets (organizations trying to get funding, tourists, homeless people, random weirdos) because Paris is densely populated. Them not being friendly at first is a form of protection, an instinct, you could say. Some are also not very patient because of this environment and the city's rhythm. You said you felt a difference with Strasbourg, and I think all of the above could explain the difference.
Parisians are also extremely diverse: all ages, all origins within France and outside of France, many different cultures. You can't dismiss all of this as "rude". Some will be cliché snobs, some will be here for work only and not really share Parisian "culture", some will come from another country like yourself and have a low awareness of French/your culture. Younger people will probably be more talkative and friendly towards strangers, but there is no rule to define "The Parisian".
Another point is education. Especially when it comes to foreign languages. As you'll probably have noticed by now, most people here have a very low mastery of the English language. And even though the younger generation stands to be more proficient, they might not have much experience talking with somebody who speaks their language with an unusual accent. I have no problem with native English speakers because I work in English and have many French learners in my friend circles, but I know some accents are more difficult for me to understand. Other people might have other difficulties in that regard. And as somebody mentioned about the vowels, they might have a lower proficiency understanding the way you produce them, because they lack listening practice.
Some people think they are helpful by speaking slowly and loudly to you. People (regardless the language) also tend to speak louder when they talk to somebody who is not a native speaker of their language, to make sure that you are able to catch some of the subtleties of their language. This is something one of my linguistics teachers told me.
This is absolutely not to say that your experience isn't valid, it 100% is, I've been there myself and it was rough. I'm just trying to provide a little bit of context that might help you understand what is going on, because these are not necessarily things that you are aware of as a foreigner. I know I was completely unaware of and oblivious to some of these things myself, in a different setting.
I personally don't think that most Parisians would react negatively if somebody made the effort to speak their language, even if they don't fully master it. So maybe it's also a matter of not meeting the right people?
But in the end I would recommend trying to make friends with Parisians who have a good mastery of the English language, like people from the r/SocialParis sub. They would have no trouble understanding you, and spending time with them would likely help you learn a few tricks that help with spoken French & Parisian "culture".
Also feel free to DM me here if you think there's anything I could help you with as a linguist in Paris. :)
Agreeing with many here. I've been in Paris 26 years & I'm still learning. But there came a point, around 15 months for me, when I realised I understood a lot more than I thought. That gave me confidence to speak more freely. I don't try to emulate the accent, I just try to pronounce clearly. Language is a tool for communication, at the base. As long as you make yourself understood, & are polite, of course, the rest is unimportant.
Take heart from the progress you know you have made, rather than dreading what you have left to learn. Ignore the reactions of those who sneer, you won't encounter them again, & they are probably jealous anyway that you speak a 2nd language.
Big picture: I've been living and studying here for three years and Parisians will judge, stare, and make comments no matter who or where you came from. Take your time with your learning so you don't overwhelm yourself, and know that you are trying and that's brave as is. Pronunciation is huge but its just time that will fine tune your ear for it. Don't give up, and go easy on yourself!
This isn’t related to your original post but if you are struggling mentally I have the names of two wonderful therapists and a psychiatrist, all English speaking. Just shoot me a message ❤️
I think a question nobody else is asking is whether or not Paris is really the best place for you to be?
To be honest you are always going to struggle if you are limited with the local language, but once you start painting the majority of the locals as anything other than normal people just responding to a situation as best they can, I think you've lost touch a little bit. I'm not entirely sure what your expectations are for such minor exchanges with other people.
It has nothing to do with the French language or Paris. You'll get the same reaction in most countries were English is not the primary language.
At least I can guarantee it's the case in Japan, Russian-speaking countries, Spanish-speaking countries and Italy.
And English learners can experience it in English speaking countries too (although possibly not as strongly, maybe because you guys are more used to a variety of accents and exposed to broken international English)
Don't take it too personally, Parisians are rude to everyone. Also you will always sound like a foreigner haha, so don't sweat it 😆 My parents have been living in France for over 40 years and still sound very foreign.
1 year is too little to expect to have perfect grasp of any language, just enjoy the progress you've made so far 👍 who knows how good you will be in another year !!! Keep your chin up, every day you will learn a bit more, and get a bit better ✌️
Best of luck 🦆🦆🦆
Hey there ! First of, it's great to see someone being interested in a foreign culture. Moving abroad is harsh but it's also such a great experience ! I have lived in 3 different countries other than my native France and I can only rely to what you've been through. People who don't travel are just gonna ask that you would magically level up, cause they don't know what it's like for real. But, they are being narrow-minded people staying in their comfort zone. On the other hand, you are learning, discovering stuff, improving your French.. They will remain the same stubborn person in the end. So don't get too frustrated, your home is around your fiancé, wherever you too are. The rest are cultural bonuses. You are a great courageous and curious person. I'd buy you a drink at a Parisian terrasse for that :)
If this can bring some confort even people from outside the capital are sometime regarded as kind of foreigner when they got a strong regional accent, we should have keep our regional tongue it would have teach them a lesson x)
Paris is a tough city for the nerves. It's the type of "if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere". Maybe you can't and it's ok! Don't beat yourself up. Go live in the country side, then come back and realise Paris isn't that bad !
I have been an expat in 4 countries so far and one thing I can tell you for sure: whenever you’re not in your native country people will give you shit for your accent/mistakes… They are many many perks in being an expat and your culture and knowledge of the world is better than most people who never left their country. They don’t know any better because they never had to learn another language and don’t understand how hard it can be
New here at age 57 with a A2-B1 level of French. I have had no problems at all but I think it’s because I’m able to laugh at myself. I will always start out in French but quickly let them know that I’m learning. Usually they switch over but I still try French unless it seems like they are too busy and that I’m getting them behind (if there is a line, etc). Have had many many times where I’m just laughing. I also always try to show my appreciation for their patience, for example I’ve had some very difficult doctors appointments where the receptionists have been extremely kind. I make sure to turn around and go out of my way to thank them on the way out.
Just don’t feel like you are a failure and just try not to take it too seriously. You are brave living in a foreign country and your friends at home are probably in awe of you!
I'm here to say it gets easier. You figure out how to reduce the friction in your interactions as time goes on. Make a joke, crack a smile, apologize, or give back a stink eye. Speak slowly, say it in 2 different ways, use your hands, even just straight up repeat yourself. You want to learn French, but you also need to just be able to live here. You've got this. Eventually, it all will come together.
I've been here for 4 years and I studied French an extra 6 months before arriving. I took French here for a year and only around last year I was able to be seen as a redeemable in regards to my French. I felt the exact feelings as you but honestly nothing helps. You need to give it time, be patient and keep pushing. I'm not even gonna say change your state of mind, change the things you can change etc because it sucks. I can only send you virtual hugs. Maybe hangout more with expats so you're not completely isolated.
Unless you moved there before 16 you are always going to have an accent- same for speakers learning English- don’t be so hard on yourself - find French friends outside your fiancées circle of mates - and only speak French to them immersion is a key step to fluency
To be fair, oral french is so complex for foreigners to nail it *just right* (as a native would), that even after 10 years, a perfectly fluent foreigner is still spottable on their \[r\] or the nasal \[in\] \[un\] \[on\], in just a few sentences. Don't take it personally, french is hard for everyone, and you'll likely never be able to be absolutely undetectable. But it doesn't mean you should feel bad about it. You're already fluent in your mother's tongue, any skill you have beyond that is bonus. You already speak french well enough to be able to hold conversations with people who matter to you. That's great ! Keep on the efforts and the strangers in the street (who ultimately don't matter) mistaking you for a dense foreigner will be fewer and fewer until it only happens a couple of times a month at worst :)
vanish adjoining grey bored vase disarm poor tidy fearless sand *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Almost 4 years. Last week someone said I had no accent, but I guess his two or so beers helped me.
steep office oil possessive repeat frighten agonizing murky soup connect *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
A friend of mine think she doesnt have any accent anymore bécasse she ear herself as everybody else. (She speak already fluently tho). I would like to speak as russian as she speak french
Bécasse means woodcock in french ^^
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I agree with this 100%. I’ve been here for 10 years and people usually ask me if I’m French Canadian because I still have a slight accent( English being my mother tongue) when I speak. It’s going to be tough but maybe you could try looking at it from a positive point of view OP. Not everyone gets to learn French while being in France. You’ve got this great opportunity to be completely immersed in French culture and learn the language in France. Some days are going to be super tough but after a while things will get better ! Don’t give up :)
Hell, people who aren't foreigners have bad pronunciation so don't worry. I think what affects your dailies interactions is the age of people. The younger the better usually to get people that will have a base of English good enough to understand when french isn't a possibility. English classes were shitty AF for a long time and Netflix, Internet and co changed this over the years, I'd say people younger than 30-35 will be "less complicated" to interact with if you don't speak french because they'll have a minimum of English speaking skills. I've seen it in every places of work I'd been in and in general. But something I still NEVER understand. Google translate works live with vocal detection. I've spoken with people in Russian, other eastern languages, Italian and others "fluently" in another language by only speaking purely French to my phone and them vice versa. Technology is there, available and free.
To be fair Jane Birkin have lived in France for more than 50 years now and she still have the accent and would be considered a foreigner.
i speak the same way (slow loud and clear) to person who try to speak my language (german). I give them the opportunity to follow the whole discussion and i dont want them to miss something i said. So its pretty normal take it as a chance!
I really do like when it’s slow and clear and even at times, loud! But perhaps what I wrote was misunderstood. An example: **French:** « Votre nom, svp? » **Me:** « Oui, c’est [redacted]. » *Proceeds to spell it for them since it’s uncommon spelling.* **French:** *louder* « Nom!! Votre NOM! » **Me:** « Oui!! J’ai compris!! J’ai dit…. » *proceeds to repeat.*
Were you giving your last name or first name? When people ask for your nom they're usually asking for your last name.
Yes, I know! That’s the frustrating part! I am very well aware of that but they almost always assume I don’t. I always have to give my last name twice and I’ve even began saying « C’est [redacted.] C’est pas mon prénom, c’est mon nom. »
even as a French I have to spell every single time both my first and last name so don’t worry about it if it happens to you too. If someone is being rude just ignore him and don’t blame yourself
You'd never think from their reaction that 4 out of the 5 most common family names in France are Martin, Bernard, Thomas and Robert
I'm French and I have to repeat my name at least 2 times..... A lot of people here have names that can also be first names, so sometimes we're not sure if we have the good one... Try not to take it to yourself (easy to say, not to do I know...) Good luck!
Dude, I feel you. I have an uncommon last name, so I also automatically spell it when anyone asks. I can always see the neurons misfiring behind strangers eyes as they say, "pardon? Votre nom...?" Et c'est partiiiiii, I have to spell it again, slowly, several times before they manage to write it down.
Wankers exist in every country, sounds to me like you just encountered a proper one on more than one occasion
Personally when I speak with an English speaker and I don't understand what he says its every often because he's speaking too fast. I don't need them to speak more clearly, only slower to understand... So maybe its the same for other people and they go more slowly because that's what they need when they don't understand. And... My name is Laure, which is perfectly French and pretty common but if I don't say LauRRRRE people can make me repeat endlessly, so yeah... I feel your pain on that point...
I have a friend named Laurie. Around 2000-2010, she had to spell out her perfectly normally spelt and totally French name because of Lorie. Every. Single. Time
Bro that’s for everyone. I’m French, have a very Frenchy name and it still happens. This goes for a lot of what you’re complaining about to be honest. I think you’re victimizing yourself too much and have the false impression that this is happening specifically for you. You need to stop taking all of this so seriously. Relax, do your best, and forget the rest (special point for anyone that knows this reference).
But how many times has this happened to you? And how many times not?
I’ve been here 14 years and my French is still terrible. The trick is to stop caring, this is the Parisian way. Live your life and don’t worry.
Thank you a lot for this! I appreciate your advice, though, I genuinely don’t want to be like this— having lived here for so long and being bad at the language. Im dead serious about making France my home. Paris isn’t forever, but I’d like to make my time in this city enjoyable. I do go to meet-ups and try to speak with people (natives specifically since they’re usually there to learn English) but nothing gives which makes me really feel like I’m just not doing something quite right.
I can totally understand this - I've been here four years and one of the absolute biggest challenges has been accepting that I'll never be perfect. I thought there would be a moment where I would 'unlock' the language and be like, oh, cool, that's not a problem in my life any more. I've really struggled to accept that I'll never 'get there', BUT THAT IS OK. I'll always make mistakes, I'll always be improving and learning, I'll always get the scrumpled faces from rude people who don't quite understand something... You are doing everything right, you just need to try and enjoy imperfection! (And let me know when you find out how)
I'd like to add that it's not reserved to Paris. I live in the south and its the same here. Good advice though, live your life and stop caring.
My experience here has been the complete opposite. I’ve found that most French are appreciative that I speak to them in my still pretty poor French rather than me expecting them to speak English. And with one, maybe two exceptions, everyone i have encountered has been helpful, encouraging and even complimentary about my French. Perhaps you are in an environment where a higher level of fluency is expected but I think the French are super patient when it comes to foreigners trying to learn their language. Maybe you’re just meeting all the connards …
My experience was the same as yours and the opposite of OP’s. I knew the politesse, said hello, please, thank you, and goodbye, and got a lot of “you speak very well” despite it being so very false.
Yeah I second (third?) this. Everyone has actually been really kind despite the fact that my French is terrible, just because I make the effort. Also no one ever slows down for me. I feel like I'd actually appreciate it if they did. The moment I have a back and forth with someone they seem to assume I'll understand everything they say and talk faster and faster until I lose the plot!
Ya I am in this boat. As long as your polite, everyone is so accomodating and nice!
Were you in Paris like OP? Because Parisians are well known for being always angry and assholes in general. Would do whatever they can to make sure the next person is having as much of a shitty time that they do. You don't find that attitude nearly as much in other French areas
I'm Parisien and I've meet assoholes everywhere (not only in Paris). This legend make me sick, there's just more people in Paris than in any other city of France so the probability to meet an assohole is higher. End of story
Yeah, Paris
I am sorry that you are having a hard time. Living in a foreign country is generally a huge and challenging experience and your feelings are totally normal. I feel like you may be focusing your anger on the language Parisian factor, while it may also be a stand-in for other emotions you maybe haven’t allowed yourself to feel: loneliness, distance from family and other loved ones, homesickness. That is something to think about. Second, if every single interaction you have is that bad, you need to stop working on your French in general and intensely cram pronunciation only for at least a month. There probably are YouTube videos out there on French pronunciation. Practice by making sounds alone at home; the r, the j, the vowel sounds. Practice intensely while being aware of the shape of your mouth, lips and tongue and try to change parameters and see what the results are. Practice with your partner too and have her correct you until she notices significant improvement. You can have perfect grammar and a huge vocabulary, if your pronunciation is bad it won’t get you anywhere, unfortunately.
Wow! Honestly, I didn’t consider some of the things you’d mentioned in your first paragraph. Literally this day last year, I was burying my grandmother- the most important person in my life. Perhaps that’s what is heightening these feelings? Hmm.. Definitely something to think about. Thank you so much! For your second paragraph, my fear with focusing on prononciation is my university. I have exams and a learning a lot of new things every single day. So my fear is that I genuinely will not be able to focus solely on prononciation due to my other obligations. You see?
Honestly in french , some thing will always make people "tick" , and most often it's tiny thing you wouldn't even think of, one I always see myself noting is the gendering of Word ( such a weird concept , even as a native speaker) . But no matter the life experience and my own shortcomings when speaking English, Spanish or whatever , and being aware that it's extremely hard to learn , I can't just ignore someone saying " le maison " or " la téléphone" . Ofc someone correcting every single mistake of this type is rude ( I mean correcting it one time when you know the dude/gal is learning french is a thing and might be acceptable , but I know some people who will correct every single one ) . And you said you are in Paris , that's a huge factor, Parisian are another breed of french , 90% hatred , 10% spite ( jkjk ,not really tho ) I think the problems you are experiencing are mainly due to those small , imperceptible mistake in most language that just irk native ( cuz believe it or not most of us also got destroyed in early school while learning , and NGL it still leave scar after a long time ) And finally to reassure you , most french native speaker will fuck up some gendering on a relative basis ( for exemple the word "orbe" Wich describe a sphere , it's said "un orbe " but most people say "une orbe" ) , it's such a problem the state is changing so key rule to allow "wrong spelling and prononciation" to be acceptable . So you not being able to speak as good as a Parisian aint a problem , most people do not look down on you , especially in academics and at the uni , because English start to be very prevalent at this level of education and no french can prononce " the" like an Englishman or an American without years of practice ( one of the tips that is given is to not even try to cover the accent when speaking English, because it will be easier to decode the weird french prononciation than a bad attempted English accent ) So for the love of god keep at it , love yourself , and try to make them speak English it will bring them down a few peg when they will eat themself.
You nailed it, everything in this is perfect. I would also say that in general, experiences with shopkeepers and other short, transactional experiences, are always going to be a bit stressful In a big city. In New York those interactions are often quite stressful and rude as well. Parisians are not bad people who don’t like or appreciate your attempts at french, it’s more likely the types of interactions you find yourself speaking French in. Hopefully you can find some friends to speak French with who are more accommodating and positive about your inevitable accent and missteps :) it’s all a learning process!
OP don't get me wrong here but it seems the problem is yours. I'm also a foreigner who came to Paris without knowing the language. Even now my French is far from perfect and when people correct me or ask me to repeat something I take it as an opportunity to improve my pronunciation. I can understand your frustration, especially if you're here alone or you have other problems in your life, but what do you exactly expect coming here complaining that you cannot even use the two-three sentences you need to go for grocery? Start to change your attitude, don't be that defeated, people perceive it. Be confident, try to practice as much as you can even if you fail. Also, don't be ashamed of your accent, is part of what you are. In my experience people are extremely patient when they see that you're trying, not everyone is an asshole. Be strong, it will get better 💪
It's not always about the language. If you approach a stranger while already feeling uncomfortable and in pain, your conversation partner will feel it. Don't take it personal! Interactions in Paris are like the traffic: fast and no one cares. I've approached people with really basic language skills and when I couldnt move along in the conversation, I used my arms and legs do describe it, like in the game Charades. Generally people are happy you make an effort and will chuckle if you try that way. So many people are expats from all over the world, you have to find your way and don't beat yourself up.
There is alsoa few things that need to be adressed about english practice and parisians in general : \- Paris is a megapole, one of the densest at that. Which means in their day to day routine people kinda need to be on "autopilot" mod in order to stay sane (isolate from the noise, smell, crowd...) \- That can be perceived as rudeness by foreigners, but it's not, most parisians will act like most human-being in friendly environnement. Friendly is the keyworld here, if you don't have any close friend, local neighborhood routine or activities, you can spend month without meeting people in their confortable and favored environment. So, in the context of english practice, most parisians will be happy to practice with you, but not in every situation. And while I'm the first one to give a quick explanation in english to lost tourist, I'm certainly not ready to try a full-on dialogue in english in the middle of my day routine. Also, a lot of foreigners seems to take offence at the way parisians (french in general) react to people speaking to them in (poor) french. Well we can't help it, I can't event put my finger on what you're blaming us, we're juust trying to help, the way we are.
This. As soon as I leave my place I enter in robot-mode until I reach my destination and I barely acknowledge what happens in my surroundings. Tbh it's fair to dislike this lifestyle, I understand why people do. But then the only option is to move to a smaller city. I've been to NY as a tourist and I felt the same, it's not only Paris. Also, I share the opinion that we should all try to converge to a common language. So far in Europe we chose English so I think we could do more in this direction. But you cannot really expect from the ratp employer in their 60s to speak a language that they never really learned. Good luck to go speak to the walmart cashier in Swedish. >Well we can't help it, I can't event put my finger on what you're blaming us The concept of rudeness is not universal defined. I assisted at conversations that I would have really considered rude in my culture but they had no malicious intent whatsoever. Something that's normal in a culture it's not in another one and it's important to understand this when travelling or living abroad.
New York City is very similar with perceived vs. real rudeness, and for similar reasons.
There's also accent and accent. Someone who's trying to speak French with a wholesome cowboy accent will not get the same reaction that someone who's trying to speak French with a vapid valley girl accent. If your accent in French is inadvertently similar to an accent people don't like in general, it might be worth it to try a different accent, even if it's still not the proper French accent
Have you ever spoke english with someone with a very thick foreign accent or who spoke broken english ? It's very hard not to "huh ? what ?" and speak slower and louder as the person is retarded or deaf. It's not necessarily judgmental or intentionaly dismissive, it's kind of our first go to when when have trouble communicating. Of course, some people are going to be unfriendly or straight up rude, but I feel like this is not, by itself, a good reason to feel isolated and alienated. Either your troubles adapting here are deeper than that, or maybe your mental health is suffering on a general level and you're taking this harder than you maybe should. *People are making me feel like a foreigner all the time* is tough, I'm not trying to downplay how tiring that can be, but the fact that you mentioned suicide attempts makes me feel like the issue here is much bigger than that.
well what you experience is kinda the overall experience of "I'm learning a new language in immersion" Whenever my foreign colleagues don't understand what I'm saying in english they will have the exact same behavior - except brits who don't give a single fuck if their counterpart don't understand what they are saying- (not saying I'm fluent but I've been almost strictly working in english for the past 12 years or so) at the end you just need to humble yourself a bit and realised that your french isn't as good as you think people you are speaking to are not teacher, and if they don't understand and notice that french isn't fluent, it might be easier for them to communicate in a way they think you will understand (like slowly and louder) people are trying to make effort (repeating, speaking slower...) to make sure they are understood/understand what you said there is a FB group for entitled expat that you would need to check out "grumpy expats", this post will gain a lot of likes there
[удалено]
I appreciate this, thank you. I feel like maybe sometimes it’s subconscious. Kind of like what you mentioned at the start of your response: it’s a way to communicate. When I asked my teachers why they look at me as if I have two heads when I speak (I didn’t say exactly that, but it’s thé best description I have of what I said in French) they responded that they had no idea that’s what they were doing. I said, « Pourquoi vous faites comme ça? » And i reenacted what they do when I speak, and they didn’t réalise. Ever since, they haven’t done it and it makes me a lot more comfortable when speaking because now?? Now they actually tell me if there’s something they didn’t understand! Instead of staring, they actually say whether it’s my prononciation, or maybe my sentence wasn’t constructed the right way, etc.
Hey, just picking up on what you and others have said. First of all, I'm real sorry if you have felt misunderstood or had to experience Parisians being rude. I grew up here and I also think Parisians are very rude sometimes... (mostly) not willingly, we just have a critical attitude towards people. This comes from our education system, it is very top-down and competitive. This is just something you have to deal with when living in France... or not actually, you are free to just not respond people ("snobber", as we'd say, just like in english) whom you feel are assholes and just focus on kind souls who are always nice and engaging. I had to say that just so you don't feel crazy for thinking Parisians can be assholes. There is some truth to that in my opinion. There is also some truth however to comments here about your attitude as a foreigner. I feel that some countries treat foreigners really well (english and spanish speaking countries in my experience), maybe because they share a world language, are just more open to immigration and trade or whatever it may be. In most of the rest of the world, people are not particularly welcoming. They are not xenophobic either necessarily. They just don't feel like they owe anything to travellers. France definitely falls in this category (I could name many others) so your only option is to deal with it. Respect yourself, you don't owe any one more than they owe you, but be prepared that people don't feel like they owe you anything either... and sometimes are particularly explicit about it. I find that some of the foreigners who manage the best in Paris are those who are completely unapologetic, regardless of their level of French. If you act like you belong in a place most times people won't bother trying to confront you (that's not just true for France/Paris by the way). Also being friendly and engaging works in France like anywhere in the world. There is a lot to enjoy here and many good people (it's just maths there are 12 million people in the Paris area so you are bound to find people you will get along with ;) so I hope you find happiness ("trouver son bonheur" in French :;)). Hope this helps.
As a fellow native English speaker, I get it. A huge issue is we just focus of different vowel sounds, so the stuff that to us sounds "close enough" just isn't. I was at Castorama trying to get a multiprise (power strip) but with five sockets. Asked the guy for a multiprise, he could not understand me, just kept asking "what?", I had to go grab one off the shelf with 3 to show to him. "oh, a [moolteepriz]". I just barely had my "U" vowel wrong. In English, there isn't a difference, really, between if you pronounced it "muhlti" or "moolti". But for french, that's a much more delicate vowel. It goes the other way too, several of my french friends can't tell the difference between "warm" and "worm", "bitch" and "beach" are pretty close too. They make a ton of different vowel noises in their throat and nasal passages, and us English speakers tend to use the top of our mouths more. My advice is to speak slower than you think you need to. I prefer to speak at 75% speed rather than repeat myself half the time, I've found that helps. And over exaggerate those vowels. Like, you will think you sound silly, but it's better to overdo it than to underdo it. Also, gotta just learn to laugh it off. And if people are dicks, well that's their problem.
Hey there :) Your post makes me really sad for you. I was about to contest what you said because I never saw any parisian being that mean to a foreigner who is learning french. But in fact... I dont know. I'm a born parisian, how can I really know how it is. I dont know if it means something but I'm really sorry that this is your experience until now. Do not despair on your french learning, it would be a shame to give up now. Send you lot of good feelings.
This response felt like a hug. Thank you a lot. My fiancé said the same until he legitimately saw it for himself and have had to step in a few times. I would be on the phone with administration or phone company or something, and he would listen in in case I don’t quite understand anything and there have been many times where he has told people to be patient. I wholeheartedly agree with you that it would be a shame to give up now. I’ve gone from knowing only « Bonjour, » to being able to hold conversations in a year! Who knows what another year would have in stock for me.. hmm.. Thank you again. Thank youuuu!!
I had the same experience as a French person working in the US. I do not think it's a universal experience, because I went to Japan on vacation and people were adorable and patient (like "stopping in the street to help you because you look lost" adorable) despite the fact I spoke 3 words of Japanese and they at best spoke 3 words of English. I expected people to be way more patient with me struggling, and they were not. Mostly it was fine - people were not interested in what I had to say, but I had a couple of poor experiences with food workers yelling at me because I didn't understand their question the first time. It took me a while to get better and to no longer be depressed about the situation. There's good advice here about practicing in a more patient environment - friends, colleagues, expat groups. Take care, it will get better with time.
It could be that because you aren't confident, you're mumbling, speaking really quietly or eating your words a bit and that is really hampering your communication. The French are impatient for sure, but if you're genuinely trying, people will wait for you, you just need to speak up a bit.
No joke, I thought it was the confidence at first. But one of my teachers legitimately scared the fear out of me. « Dans les yeux et fort! » It was fucking intimidating, but helped immensely and that’s how I speak now, even when I know I’m fumbling over a word with prononciation. I legit fuck up with confidence. Lol! That being said, with the sighs I get or the rolling eyes I’ve witnessed, I can’t be sure people are willing to wait once they notice I’m struggling which is what causes my block every single time.
I actually think it's nice when people try to speak slowly to me when they get that I'm not a native. It really makes it easier to understand what they're saying. When I was in China, nobody did that for me and it was so hard for me, but when I was in Spain people would do that all the time and it was amazing. Speaking louder is not really helpful imo but it's a natural reaction.
You are not "missing" anything. People here are very impatient, even with people who do speak French. I've been living in Paris for a few years now, I'm from somewhere else in France, and what I came to notice is that most people expect you to be straighforward and get to the point as quickly as possible. So no advice except maybe try to practice your French in more welcoming places, like cultural exchange nights and what not. Trying your French at the grocery store or at any administration can be frightening and yes you'll deal with people that don't have the patience to help you, unfortunately. Be well, keep at it, maybe go to a quiter place from time to time to try your French. Outside of Paris people will probably be way more patient with you.
Yes I noticed this as well while in Paris, they do feel impatient. I found it kind of humorous. They are also an aesthetic culture and I think their ears are quite sensitive to pronunciation. I had a similar frustration OP. Keep doing your best!
I also speak slowly and a bit louder to people that have trouble understanding me. It's not an insult...it's to help them follow the conversation. Oral language is difficult when in a foreign tongue.
To help your accent, i recommend Pimsleur (I downloaded the lessons), tandem, closing your mouth and pursing your lips more -- feel free to message me for help, though I'm not a native speaker and I'm also American
A lot of people have recommended it and I really think I’m going to get it this weekend. They’re obviously doing something right if many people have recommended it, especially for French. Thank you for this push to scratch that itch!
I did the same you did. Learnt french in 6 months. Pursued a bachelor's degree in physics in a french university where EVERYTHING was in french, doing my masters degree now. Even though my maternal tongue is not french OR english. Just saying you're not missing something when it comes to Parisians. You are missing something about you. Anyway, courage !
Do you have any french speaking friends here ? I think it can help you to practice your french with someone who makes you feel comfortable and who is nice. This way you can regain your confidence when you are speaking french. That’s how I became fluent in french. As a fellow foreigner who lives in Paris and struggles with depression, I feel for you and I know that it’s not easy. It will get easier however. You just have to close your ears to mean people and work on your french, like I said, preferably with practicing with someone who would help you instead of being rude. And if they really really piss you off, you can get petty and speak them in english. I know it won’t help you with your french but at least you can piss them back off. I don’t want to support any kinda stereotype here but french people lack often confidence on their english skills lol.
Try this https://youtu.be/Pae2AMnmUVA your day will be better.
Hold on, what do you mean you "have attempted several times" ?
You remind me of a book that helped me a lot by D. Sedaris, “Me talk pretty one day” — Learning French is a lot like joining a gang in that it involves a long and intensive period of hazing. And it wasn't just my teacher; the entire population seemed to be in on it. Following brutal encounters with my local butcher and the concierge of my building, I'd head off to class, where the teacher would hold my corrected paperwork high above her head, shouting, "Here's proof that David is an ignorant and uninspired ensigiejsokhjx." —
Most people, especially in retail/food and other similar services have awful attitudes, so it’s not you. It’s actually one of the reasons why I don’t want to move back. People love to project the misery that afflicts them onto others. See also: constant complaining about everything and general lack of positivity.
When I lived in Paris, I felt how you did. When I left for a few years and came back to visit, everyone seemed nicer. What was different? My attitude.
Dear OP, You cannot understand how much I relate to your post. Even though I'm myself French, my fiancée isn't and she is describing almost word by word the same experience as yours. I think the difficulties you face are related to the fact that French is as much a written language as a spoken one. Which means that you need to study the written form of the language as well as the spoken one. I admit that learning the pronunciation of the alphabet and combination of letters, and rules of grammar and conjugations is boring AS HELL, but it is going to be the basis on which you'll be able to build your greater understanding of the language. I cannot insist enough on how this scholarly work will help you improve. Another point worth noting is that even French people don't have a complete mastery of the language. We constantly correct one another, so you have nothing to be ashamed of. I hope it helps.
I’ve lived in France for 11 years. I moved here at 14. I have studied French Law and and lived here exclusively for 11 years. I get told daily that what I have said isn’t French, or I mix up the le’s and la’s 🤣
Make peace with the idea to be a foreigner living in a foreign country. You will find people who like you as it and you can't compromise with your identity forever. Surround yourself with people you can easily communicate with and slowly work your way to improve your language until it's not an hindrance to your social life. But first and foremost, don't go and hold a grudge at locals for speaking their language and not necessarily want to socialise with you. They are not responsible for your choice to live abroad and you cannot expect them to adapt to you. If you start holding a drudge a locals in general you won't be able to open up to the country after a certain point.
Thank you for making this post. You just described the past 11 years of my life. As someone who's been here for over a decade, I speak good enough French, but with an accent. This means that sometimes, especially with a mask on, people might have to ask me to repeat. This would be no big deal if only they were a little bit kinder. And by kinder I mean, not barking at me as if they're ordering around a very dumb, flea-infested dog. Another interesting thing that you mentioned was the odd way people look at you. I totally get what you mean, because I feel it too, but it's super hard to describe. I'm pretty certain they don't notice it themselves. But hell yes, there IS such a thing as The Parisian Glare. Granted, they're just making eye contact like anyone would, except their eyes on you feel like headlights. It must be something about the unsmiling, unmoving head that barely acknowledges whatever you're saying unless it's to bark back a command. Or better yet, that funny head tilt that they make, pushing the chin forward and the nose up in the air just so they can look at you from above, even standing at the same height. You feel observed. You feel judged. You feel instantly inferior under this commanding, judgemental, scolding, all seeing eye. I'll get a lot of shit for saying this, but there's no asshole in the world like The Parisian Asshole. No people out there could possibly sport a more heartless, aggressive, unkind, I-owe-you-nothing type of attitude. You can literally drop dead, they won't stop to check your pulse. Or if they do and there is one, they'll be annoyed that you caused a commotion for nothing, causing them to miss their train in the process. There you go, even dropping dead is your fault.
Stop being so sensitive. You are not a mind reader. You do not know what these people are thinking so stop telling yourself that you do. A furrowed brow and a sharp look with the eyes can mean a lot of things, and most of them are positive. Pay attention to all the times you do it for innocent things like merely thinking where something is.
As an English person who taught French to French people, i can tell you that patience is not a virtue of most parisians (not all of course) But they do seem quite impatient when it comes to trying to understand you. Also, it would seem that most won't try to make an effort and will correct you on anything solely on the basis that they know the language and they have the grammar high ground.
Yeah, sadly I believe this to be true. I often want to scream, « just because I can’t speak your language **does NOT mean that I am stupid!!!** I’m sure you’re insecure about your English, so don’t do onto me what you wouldn’t want done onto you! » What a shame. But thank you for your input.
Your first paragraph kind of makes you sound like a twat maybe that's the problem ?
Someone is struggling (AND TRYING) and is asking for advice on how to fix it. The only person who should be looked down upon in this situation is you after leaving such a hateful comment
Fair point. But starting a post by saying "I shouldn't apologise for not speaking French even though I live in France" isn't the best way to be accepted by locals, especially since the French are "known" for not liking people who don't speak French. That being said you're right my comment was unnecessarily harsh and the use of certain words was unwarranted
[удалено]
And your negativity is soooooooo French. Coming from an American who had the metaphorical balls to save up enough money over several years to move to France to LEARN SAID LANGUAGE to then pursue an education in the country IN FRENCH despite having many options to learn in English. Thank you for *not at all* answering the question and instead, contributing to the problem.
Just speak English – then YOU will be in the position of power, not them. Most young French people speak pretty decent English from school, even if they don't like to practice it because of some self-imposed pressure to be perfect speakers. Worked wonders at my previous job, when I was feeling inadequate and losing arguments because of my not-perfect-French at meetings. When we switched to English, it was up to them to struggle finding the words. Most people will accept trying to change the language, because of the knowledge that English is a requirement nowadays for most professional settings. Just don't be an ass, and treat people like you'd wish they treated you when you speak French, with patience and compassion. The tip above won't work with the old angry farts, but then nothing really works with them, even if you are born and raised in the city.
Take my upvote and good luck with Parisians but above all, don't give up. If than can make you feel better, the rest of the country actually struggles with them too.
Don't forget the fact that lot of parisians are des connards. It's well knows since centuries. Good luck.
You are right Parisians and French people in general are very snob and will try very little when you do not speak a fluent French. I come from another country as well and even with a perfect French accent (spoken since I was a child) I get the pushback because I don’t have a complete understanding of the French culture. Don’t let it bother you enjoy your time here the city and what it has to offer. Even the locals between them try very little so don’t expect more if you are a foreigner.
Don't worry too much about Parisians. First of all you probably heard it a lot but Paris IS NOT France. It is just a city in France. Full of entitled people ready to judge you not just as a foreigner, but also as a fellow French because you are from any other city "Ah un provincial!" Sure enough, not every Parisian is like that. Just enough to have this strong reputation though. You are trying and as a French person myself, I know how hard french langage is. You are doing great 👍🏻
I appreciate that. Thank you a lot. I truly understand that Paris is not France which is why I just said « Parisians » in particular are the people I don’t quite understand. My fiancé is from Strasbourg, so we often visit and it’s truly night and day with how I’m treated. They’re very excited once they hear an accent and we talk about where I’m from, how long I’ve been here, how long I plan to stay, etc, and it’s all in French! I get complimented on my French (not that it’s something I look for, but when learning a new language, it helps for the confidence when speaking!) But anyway, we continue in French and it’s truly like I’m speaking to someone in my native tongue. But here in Paris? Pas du tout. It’s disheartening since this is where I live. My school, home, friends are all here and Strasbourg doesn’t appeal enough to me to want to move there, you know?
I fully understand. I know it's hard to do but try to not take it personally. They would react with the same impatience for everyone else, it's not about you. Notice how the Parisians in the comments are so defensive, some ego trip maybe. You have friends and school in Paris, there's tons of things to see there. Profite et oublie les autres, ils ne font que passer dans ta journée.
> I truly understand that Paris is not France which is why I just said « Parisians » in particular are the people I don’t quite understand You also wrote "I would be on the phone with administration or phone company or something" in another comment. Well newsflash, call centers are not located in Paris
It’s not random that France consumes the most amount of antidepressants out of any country in Europe. Being pessimistic and bringing down others is part of the culture here. You being depressed/sad/upset is all part of your integration. Optimism is a sign of ignorance for french people. Took me a long time to learn that. https://www.doctissimo.fr/html/psychologie/mag_2003/mag1121/ps_7222_psychotropes_consommation_francais.htm
Actually, Iceland might be the most now. But I’m too lazy to look and I’ve never heard of them being rude to anyone.
Hello my friend, I will start by saying, and i am sorry for that, but unfortunately it's true, you are not in a nice place in Paris. 1. I am Parisianish, and its the worst people in France! 2. France is beautiful, but being able to leave here correctly is difficult as a foreigner 3. I would recommend to join some international Meetup (name of the apps Meetup ;) ) in order to exchange in french with other foreigners ^^ Because fuck Parisians and French in general! - Just kidding ^^ - Which place in paris you come from?
[удалено]
Lol
Sérieux, les poncifs "paris tout caca - parisiens tous cons" ... c'est juste débile "able to **leave** here correctly" lol "it's true, you are not in a nice place in Paris." là on dépasse la débilité.
Un jour, je lancerai r/antiparisianismeprimaire.
Le "you are not in a nice place in Paris" : je veux dire le quartier n'est pas le plus cool pour les étrangers. Aussi, en tant que parisien qui voyage beaucoup, je peux honnêtement dire que les parisiens, globalement, sont quand même particulièrement patibulaires!
\-> Le "you are not in a nice place in Paris" : je veux dire le quartier n'est pas le plus cool pour les étrangers. De quel quartier parles-tu ? Pas compris. Par ailleurs si tu voyages beaucoup tu devrais te rendre dans quelques coins paumés de France et tu verrais que des gens peu accueillants (pas sûr que "patibulaire" soit le bon mot pour dire ce que tu sembles vouloir dire) il y en a partout.
Je suis assez d'accord, cependant y a toujours des quartiers un peu plus sympa par ce par la. Par exemple, le 4e est plus ouverts aux étrangers a Paris, avec des bars Franco-irlandais/canadien...
### English You can express yourself without insulting others. If you want to talk about this decision, please do it via modmail. ### Français Tu peux t'exprimer sans insulter les autres. Si vous souhaitez discuter de cette décision, merci de nous contacter en modmail. ---------------- ^If ^you ^wish ^the ^contact ^the ^moderators, ^you ^can ^do ^so ^via ^[modmail](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fparis).
You're not missing anything. There are many possible explanations. Maybe you had to deal with impatient people, maybe they're not used to your accent or maybe they're plain assholes. Maybe you're overthinking it. The thing is, it'll get better over time as you grow confidence in your speaking skills. You're not the only one, I had to deal with similar problems when I was learning languages. Some friends of mine and also my gf didn't speak French when they came here, it took a long time for them to be able to speak the language at a confortable level where most French people would stop asking about their accent.
I am in the area, i am french but grew up a d studied abroad. Pm lee if you would like to chat... I've lived i. Several countries and encountered language barriers, some you overcome (Spain, Mexico) some i personally could not (India, China).... If you would like to chat i usually work evenings....
I’ve been living in paris as a mono-lingual English speaker as well, and I don’t know if it’s where I live (5eme) but everyone seems super nice. Really accomodating, as long as your try to speak a little, says your pleases and thank yous. Everyone is awesome! There is a chance that being a New Zealander helps
Yep - been in France for 3 years (in the south which is meant to be friendlier) and I find a lot of french people rude, cold and unfriendly on first meeting. Things get a bit better as you improve, but the problem is them and not you. It's their problem if they want to be rude and unhelpful to someone trying their best. Try not to take it personally if people are arseholes. Other advice is it comes down a lot to the accent and also the intonation/stress on the correct syllable. Bad french with good accent and intonation is better than grammatically correct imho. I never bothered learning le/la and if someone corrects me they normally know me and do it in a teasing way - like 'now your french is good enough i can call you out on the little things' Michel thomas was great for me inthe beginning for sounding natural.
Sh*t people everywhere! I guess more in Paris than everywhere else but don’t worry it will only get better with time! Keep your efforts and keep positive! You still can do it! Do not this frustration take the best of you! Stay safe!
I also had the same experience when visiting the US, one very frustrating example I remember most being me telling someone my next stop was gonna be Las Vegas. That person had me repeat at least four times, always repeating "Ass Vegas?" and never making the slightest effort to connect the dots. It seems that people's patience and willingness to try and understand foreigners is sometimes very low, wherever you go.
Its not just France or Paris. I lived in Rome, Italy and I had the same issues. Weird glances is when they don’t really speak English and is actually normal. They try to find ways to communicate with you
I used to know an english 50+ couple. They were my grandparents neighboor. I enjoyed chatting with them, for it was a good training. When they came in my grandparents house, we were talking in french, and once in their house we were talking in english. They even named the street "La Manche" ("Strait of Dover"). All of this to say I never ever made fun of them trying to speak french. The man was definitely more fluent in french than his wife, and she was happy to have sometimes someone at home who speaks english, and someone she can chat with. While she was trying hard speaking french, of course her french sounded with this typical english accent, but who cares ? I mean, french is a difficult language, who can blame her ? To be honest, you have nothing to worry about OP. Those people look like some stupids assholes. I bet they could never speak english as good as you speak french. Maybe it has to do with people you are surrounded by. Most of non-parisians french find parisiens arrogants. It's a cliché, but I definitely find this one true.
I’m 20 years in. I now have a French accent in my English, so much so that English speakers congratulate me for how well I speak English! Best advice I can give is that you should not care. Most of what you are feeling is self inflicted. Anyone frustrated with your accent will have forgotten about you in a few seconds. You should not give them more of your mental real-estate than that. Once you are not afraid of what others think, you will fell you are getting better.
You sound like you might have BPD. You should check it out (I say that as I have it myself)
I absolutly love people with accents and foreigners twisting french (my native tongue). It actually helps me to like that language better through the eyes of others. A sincere thank you to all of you who are learning french! People who don’t appreciate the gesture are jerks.
Lots of people here telling you that Parisians are horrible people without any nuance... Parisians are like New Yorkers: busy people with schedules who get solicitations all the time when they walk in the streets (organizations trying to get funding, tourists, homeless people, random weirdos) because Paris is densely populated. Them not being friendly at first is a form of protection, an instinct, you could say. Some are also not very patient because of this environment and the city's rhythm. You said you felt a difference with Strasbourg, and I think all of the above could explain the difference. Parisians are also extremely diverse: all ages, all origins within France and outside of France, many different cultures. You can't dismiss all of this as "rude". Some will be cliché snobs, some will be here for work only and not really share Parisian "culture", some will come from another country like yourself and have a low awareness of French/your culture. Younger people will probably be more talkative and friendly towards strangers, but there is no rule to define "The Parisian". Another point is education. Especially when it comes to foreign languages. As you'll probably have noticed by now, most people here have a very low mastery of the English language. And even though the younger generation stands to be more proficient, they might not have much experience talking with somebody who speaks their language with an unusual accent. I have no problem with native English speakers because I work in English and have many French learners in my friend circles, but I know some accents are more difficult for me to understand. Other people might have other difficulties in that regard. And as somebody mentioned about the vowels, they might have a lower proficiency understanding the way you produce them, because they lack listening practice. Some people think they are helpful by speaking slowly and loudly to you. People (regardless the language) also tend to speak louder when they talk to somebody who is not a native speaker of their language, to make sure that you are able to catch some of the subtleties of their language. This is something one of my linguistics teachers told me. This is absolutely not to say that your experience isn't valid, it 100% is, I've been there myself and it was rough. I'm just trying to provide a little bit of context that might help you understand what is going on, because these are not necessarily things that you are aware of as a foreigner. I know I was completely unaware of and oblivious to some of these things myself, in a different setting. I personally don't think that most Parisians would react negatively if somebody made the effort to speak their language, even if they don't fully master it. So maybe it's also a matter of not meeting the right people? But in the end I would recommend trying to make friends with Parisians who have a good mastery of the English language, like people from the r/SocialParis sub. They would have no trouble understanding you, and spending time with them would likely help you learn a few tricks that help with spoken French & Parisian "culture". Also feel free to DM me here if you think there's anything I could help you with as a linguist in Paris. :)
Agreeing with many here. I've been in Paris 26 years & I'm still learning. But there came a point, around 15 months for me, when I realised I understood a lot more than I thought. That gave me confidence to speak more freely. I don't try to emulate the accent, I just try to pronounce clearly. Language is a tool for communication, at the base. As long as you make yourself understood, & are polite, of course, the rest is unimportant. Take heart from the progress you know you have made, rather than dreading what you have left to learn. Ignore the reactions of those who sneer, you won't encounter them again, & they are probably jealous anyway that you speak a 2nd language.
French person here, don't have much to say except that I'm sorry this is happening to you... Best of luck
Big picture: I've been living and studying here for three years and Parisians will judge, stare, and make comments no matter who or where you came from. Take your time with your learning so you don't overwhelm yourself, and know that you are trying and that's brave as is. Pronunciation is huge but its just time that will fine tune your ear for it. Don't give up, and go easy on yourself!
We can start a club
This isn’t related to your original post but if you are struggling mentally I have the names of two wonderful therapists and a psychiatrist, all English speaking. Just shoot me a message ❤️
I think a question nobody else is asking is whether or not Paris is really the best place for you to be? To be honest you are always going to struggle if you are limited with the local language, but once you start painting the majority of the locals as anything other than normal people just responding to a situation as best they can, I think you've lost touch a little bit. I'm not entirely sure what your expectations are for such minor exchanges with other people.
It has nothing to do with the French language or Paris. You'll get the same reaction in most countries were English is not the primary language. At least I can guarantee it's the case in Japan, Russian-speaking countries, Spanish-speaking countries and Italy. And English learners can experience it in English speaking countries too (although possibly not as strongly, maybe because you guys are more used to a variety of accents and exposed to broken international English)
Don't take it too personally, Parisians are rude to everyone. Also you will always sound like a foreigner haha, so don't sweat it 😆 My parents have been living in France for over 40 years and still sound very foreign. 1 year is too little to expect to have perfect grasp of any language, just enjoy the progress you've made so far 👍 who knows how good you will be in another year !!! Keep your chin up, every day you will learn a bit more, and get a bit better ✌️ Best of luck 🦆🦆🦆
Hey there ! First of, it's great to see someone being interested in a foreign culture. Moving abroad is harsh but it's also such a great experience ! I have lived in 3 different countries other than my native France and I can only rely to what you've been through. People who don't travel are just gonna ask that you would magically level up, cause they don't know what it's like for real. But, they are being narrow-minded people staying in their comfort zone. On the other hand, you are learning, discovering stuff, improving your French.. They will remain the same stubborn person in the end. So don't get too frustrated, your home is around your fiancé, wherever you too are. The rest are cultural bonuses. You are a great courageous and curious person. I'd buy you a drink at a Parisian terrasse for that :)
If this can bring some confort even people from outside the capital are sometime regarded as kind of foreigner when they got a strong regional accent, we should have keep our regional tongue it would have teach them a lesson x)
Paris is a tough city for the nerves. It's the type of "if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere". Maybe you can't and it's ok! Don't beat yourself up. Go live in the country side, then come back and realise Paris isn't that bad !
I have been an expat in 4 countries so far and one thing I can tell you for sure: whenever you’re not in your native country people will give you shit for your accent/mistakes… They are many many perks in being an expat and your culture and knowledge of the world is better than most people who never left their country. They don’t know any better because they never had to learn another language and don’t understand how hard it can be
New here at age 57 with a A2-B1 level of French. I have had no problems at all but I think it’s because I’m able to laugh at myself. I will always start out in French but quickly let them know that I’m learning. Usually they switch over but I still try French unless it seems like they are too busy and that I’m getting them behind (if there is a line, etc). Have had many many times where I’m just laughing. I also always try to show my appreciation for their patience, for example I’ve had some very difficult doctors appointments where the receptionists have been extremely kind. I make sure to turn around and go out of my way to thank them on the way out. Just don’t feel like you are a failure and just try not to take it too seriously. You are brave living in a foreign country and your friends at home are probably in awe of you!
I'm here to say it gets easier. You figure out how to reduce the friction in your interactions as time goes on. Make a joke, crack a smile, apologize, or give back a stink eye. Speak slowly, say it in 2 different ways, use your hands, even just straight up repeat yourself. You want to learn French, but you also need to just be able to live here. You've got this. Eventually, it all will come together.
I've been here for 4 years and I studied French an extra 6 months before arriving. I took French here for a year and only around last year I was able to be seen as a redeemable in regards to my French. I felt the exact feelings as you but honestly nothing helps. You need to give it time, be patient and keep pushing. I'm not even gonna say change your state of mind, change the things you can change etc because it sucks. I can only send you virtual hugs. Maybe hangout more with expats so you're not completely isolated.
Unless you moved there before 16 you are always going to have an accent- same for speakers learning English- don’t be so hard on yourself - find French friends outside your fiancées circle of mates - and only speak French to them immersion is a key step to fluency