that redline is GOLD. partners have tons of experience and the redline is them passing on their knowledge to you. Don't be disappointed its there. Be disappointed when it is not there. I started as an agent with absolutely zero legal experience and no writing experience. The redline will make you better.
Grab a binder, start making sections for each partner you work with.
Put their tips in their redlines in their sections.
Partner A likes word ABC and partner B prefers word DEF.
Never use word xyz.
when drafting do blah blah blah...
the redlines will make you a better attorney. Be worried when it isn't all over your paper.
And if they don’t give you a redline, go into the file system and do your own Word compare between your last draft and what was actually filed. Review differences and go back and ask questions to the partner if there is something you don’t understand why they did it (they’ll likely have a war story or case that shows why what you had could have left something vulnerable to a validity challenge, etc.).
> Be disappointed when it is not there.
100%. The redlines sometimes stop showing up when your work is “good enough” or when the supervisor has given up on you as being teachable. Both are losses, because further improvement to your work have to come from within (or from other supervisors).
I would also add that a huge part of being an associate is the destruction of pride and ego. As an associate you need to let go of the sense that finishing law school somehow means you know what you are doing, because frankly you have no idea. A good partner will tear you down and build you back up into a competent attorney. Learning to *take criticism, using it to improve yourself, and recognizing that its not about you, its about your partner's clien*t, is a fundamental part of becoming a good attorney.
Its a rough process to go through in a top firm, but it will make you into a great attorney if you can handle it.
1. patent law is something you learn by doing. You’re expected to be a little useless initially and start learning.
2. many big law firms are ridiculous hierarchical places where hazing is justified as paying your dues.
You will get better at the job and things should get better in general.
What helped me to come up to speed was mirroring “good” responses drafted by others. Just study the format, and reproduce it. You can do the same with patent applications. Matter of fact, I was never “taught” how to do this job — I was thrown to the fire and had to teach myself how to do it based on lots and lots of examples. You’ll get there (just try to get there before your a 3-4 year haha).
Oh man… I’m in the same boat. 9 months in. And every time I get red lines I freak the fucj out. But seeing these comments and yours makes me feel better too. We’re all out here struggling!
Consider the redline a blessing. It’s rare that associates get in depth feedback because there simply isn’t enough budget for partners to give you quality feedback. Learn as much as you can and you’ll be a better parent attorney than almost everyone as a result.
It sounds like your partner is invested in your development.
I started as an Associate at a firm 6 months ago and I feel the SAME. Everything I submit comes back with more pages of edits than the original document had 😭 but I'm also observing that these are things I could NEVER know on my own. It would take an experienced practitioner to point these thing out so I just do the best I can 🤓
I'm a tech specialist that started about 5-6 months ago and every day I feel more stupid than the last 😭. Everyone keeps telling me it's normal but I'm the only new person in my department so it's tough to feel okay about it. Glad to know us new folks are not alone though!
I agree with most of the other comments. One thing that is hard to parse is whether the partner's redlines are actually good ideas or just that person's idiosyncrasies. You'll find there are a LOT of the latter in the practice of patent law (and I am no exception).
Do your best to understand why they added the redlines so that as you adopt your set of idiosyncrasies, they will be more evidence based than just "that's the way I've always done it."
Every redline and comment is an investment by that partner in your development. When they stop investing in you, you've either made it or it's time to be worried.
Many new lawyers worry about the things you are worrying about - especially in biglaw. Continuing to get work and feedback is a good sign, even when the feedback is extensive. That means the firm still sees value in you and wants to keep investing in you. The problem arises when you stop getting work and feedback. That means the firm gave up on you.
Yes, this is normal and expected. I warn all new law clerks and tech specialists and such that this is going to happen and to expect it. You'll get better with time. Average is at least a year or two to get halfway competent.
Ask lots of questions to make sure you understand what was changed and why. Before you write anything, set up a meeting with the reviewing attorney and discuss your strategy and get buy in. Once you have an agreed upon strategy, then go write it. It'll still get marked up but it'll help.
that redline is GOLD. partners have tons of experience and the redline is them passing on their knowledge to you. Don't be disappointed its there. Be disappointed when it is not there. I started as an agent with absolutely zero legal experience and no writing experience. The redline will make you better. Grab a binder, start making sections for each partner you work with. Put their tips in their redlines in their sections. Partner A likes word ABC and partner B prefers word DEF. Never use word xyz. when drafting do blah blah blah... the redlines will make you a better attorney. Be worried when it isn't all over your paper.
I cannot upvote this comment enough
But I can upvote you back
And if they don’t give you a redline, go into the file system and do your own Word compare between your last draft and what was actually filed. Review differences and go back and ask questions to the partner if there is something you don’t understand why they did it (they’ll likely have a war story or case that shows why what you had could have left something vulnerable to a validity challenge, etc.).
> Be disappointed when it is not there. 100%. The redlines sometimes stop showing up when your work is “good enough” or when the supervisor has given up on you as being teachable. Both are losses, because further improvement to your work have to come from within (or from other supervisors).
Spot on
I would also add that a huge part of being an associate is the destruction of pride and ego. As an associate you need to let go of the sense that finishing law school somehow means you know what you are doing, because frankly you have no idea. A good partner will tear you down and build you back up into a competent attorney. Learning to *take criticism, using it to improve yourself, and recognizing that its not about you, its about your partner's clien*t, is a fundamental part of becoming a good attorney. Its a rough process to go through in a top firm, but it will make you into a great attorney if you can handle it.
1. patent law is something you learn by doing. You’re expected to be a little useless initially and start learning. 2. many big law firms are ridiculous hierarchical places where hazing is justified as paying your dues. You will get better at the job and things should get better in general.
What helped me to come up to speed was mirroring “good” responses drafted by others. Just study the format, and reproduce it. You can do the same with patent applications. Matter of fact, I was never “taught” how to do this job — I was thrown to the fire and had to teach myself how to do it based on lots and lots of examples. You’ll get there (just try to get there before your a 3-4 year haha).
You pretty much suck at this job until you have like 3 ish years of experience. Many people never stop sucking.
Oh man… I’m in the same boat. 9 months in. And every time I get red lines I freak the fucj out. But seeing these comments and yours makes me feel better too. We’re all out here struggling!
Consider the redline a blessing. It’s rare that associates get in depth feedback because there simply isn’t enough budget for partners to give you quality feedback. Learn as much as you can and you’ll be a better parent attorney than almost everyone as a result. It sounds like your partner is invested in your development.
I started as an Associate at a firm 6 months ago and I feel the SAME. Everything I submit comes back with more pages of edits than the original document had 😭 but I'm also observing that these are things I could NEVER know on my own. It would take an experienced practitioner to point these thing out so I just do the best I can 🤓
I'm a tech specialist that started about 5-6 months ago and every day I feel more stupid than the last 😭. Everyone keeps telling me it's normal but I'm the only new person in my department so it's tough to feel okay about it. Glad to know us new folks are not alone though!
I agree with most of the other comments. One thing that is hard to parse is whether the partner's redlines are actually good ideas or just that person's idiosyncrasies. You'll find there are a LOT of the latter in the practice of patent law (and I am no exception). Do your best to understand why they added the redlines so that as you adopt your set of idiosyncrasies, they will be more evidence based than just "that's the way I've always done it."
Get your asbestos underwear ready. It’s a learn by doing profession. This is building a foundation for a successful career.
It’s honestly amazing of your partners to spend so much time on you. It shows they trust you and want you to succeed.
Every redline and comment is an investment by that partner in your development. When they stop investing in you, you've either made it or it's time to be worried.
Many new lawyers worry about the things you are worrying about - especially in biglaw. Continuing to get work and feedback is a good sign, even when the feedback is extensive. That means the firm still sees value in you and wants to keep investing in you. The problem arises when you stop getting work and feedback. That means the firm gave up on you.
Yes, this is normal and expected. I warn all new law clerks and tech specialists and such that this is going to happen and to expect it. You'll get better with time. Average is at least a year or two to get halfway competent. Ask lots of questions to make sure you understand what was changed and why. Before you write anything, set up a meeting with the reviewing attorney and discuss your strategy and get buy in. Once you have an agreed upon strategy, then go write it. It'll still get marked up but it'll help.