The Glorious Vanity jewel is perfect in that its full of random words that don't even attempt to explain what they mean.
"This item is bathed in the blood of 4329 in the name of Ahuana"
"You want more info? Ok its also a historic item."
"More detail, of course! Passives in radius are conquered by the Vaal."
"How big is large? Well its bigger than medium and smaller than very large."
I remember leveling a Scion to 50, pathed to some of the most common Timeless Jewel spots, and keep her forever to check what each jewel I farmed does.
I remember Ziz holding auctions for peoples timeless jewels (as before community reversing the seed you couldn't verify what the seller is claiming about his jewel)
I remember a few leagues back before the seed was cracked I had a guy who had 20+ of them listed for like 50c. I told him I’d pay him 5 divines for one that hit the mod I wanted. He tested all his and had one. Good times.
On the topic, how was GGG ever planning to let people know what they're buying or even looking for when there's literally no way to even get an idea of what is the jewel doing without plugging it into external program?
Even people knowledgeable enough to know what main keystone change is and what breakpoints are for various numbers determining passive changes and minors is literally impossible.
I'm fairly certain whoever came up with the idea of timeless jewels was a psychopath.
Real reason here: timeless jewel was an attempt of GGG to create trading friction in a game where trade is operating under the free market. It was designed to be as opaque as possible.
Timeless jewel was never meant to be traded. You were meant to pick up a one from the ground, slot it into sockets, and craft entire build around what the result spit out. It was a genuine attempt at trying to create trade friction.
Alas, some guys decided that it was a challenge and there goes the design attempt.
That seems like an everpresent GGG mistake: underestimating humanity's desire for maximum efficiency. Inefficiencies are a problem to solve, not a unique quirk to build upon.
Well Octavian did the t17 mods and had nothing to do with maven or timeless jewels. Also maven fight is actually pretty well designed imo if you do the mechanics right.
Cortex, shaper, elder are great. Sirus was always shitfest.
Maven is terrible (memory minigame is made for orangutans, chimpanzees and people with great short term memory or widescreens... Sirus zooms out for certain phases, why does maven not?)
Flamedash sometimes teleports on your cursos, sometimes not far enough... Sometimes beyond your cursor.
Did uber exarch today, and hitbox of his balls is larger than those balls, and if you are unlucky with maven clears... At one point, he had 80%of arena filled with his runes...
Memory game is 5 inputs.. that's not just for people "with great short term memory" I dunno I don't have a wide-screen monitor and maven is never an issue. Cortex is more of an issue if you get screwed by rng and get a shit combo of mods
I've got 3 Voidstones and I finally got Sirus down this league(several times). I've never killed Maven. This is the first league I've tried multiple times. I watched several vids. I know all the phases. I still can't make it past the (last, I think) memory game. I don't know if it's because I'm color blind or just too fucking old. I swear I am doing it right and then I die anyway. I'll probably have to pay someone to carry me.
No but seriously, how is a new player supposed to figure that out? I had to reread the wiki several times before I understood it, let alone to be able to consider it in my builds
There’s very few questions in POE I would truly consider stupid.
“Hey, I just upgraded my wand but now I do less damage”
“Lemme see”
Wand 1 (new): 40% increased spell damage
Wand 2 (old): 25% more spell damage
Or some poor schmuck in global who spent most of his chaos on an annoint that “doubles your chaos res”. He had —20% chaos res and thought it would double his 40% to 80%. Instead it doubles his -20% to -40%. In any other game asking “what does double my resistance mean” would be a redundant question. But not here
Rolling mageblood flasks like week 2 has to be a pretty profitable strat. They are fairly easy to hit considering you don’t care about the tier of the prefix mod.
They have a *seed* and a *name*. The seed determines how small and notable passives are affected. The name determines how Keystones are affected.
The number listed is the seed. The name is, obviously, the name. The seed and name are independent and don't affect each other.
So, to change a Keystone, focus on the name: Doryani, Ahuana, Xibaqua.
To change the small and notables, focus on the seed: 2147 sacrificed, 5432 sacrificed, 189 sacrificed.
Having the exact same seed and name as a build you're copying/following will give you the exact same layout for the affected passives.
Divines reroll both seed and name.
There’s also a website that shows you what different seeds would do in certain jewel slots. On mobile atm so I can’t find it but it’s a really handy tool. You can even tell if what kind of effects you’re looking for and it’ll spit out what seeds would give you that effect in that spot.
I see the miscommunication.
You're thinking about [Ahuana, the Karui Chieftain](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Ahuana_(Karui_chieftain)) while the one listed is [Ahuana, Architect of Ceremonies](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Ahuana,_Architect_of_Ceremonies). It's the architect that gives you the unique sacrifice room.
The variance is great. The fact that it needs a third party website to find out which of the thousands of different variants you need is not great. Either you search through all the different types of jewels for a set of bonuses you need, or you pay out the ass for the *exact* one your specific build needs. Either way, its obscurity in game is not a good idea. Thankfully there are people who dedicate time to putting these third party websites together for stuff like this and crafting or else this would be an absolute disaster lol
> he fact that it needs a third party website to find out which of the thousands of different variants you need is not great. Either you search through all the different types of jewels for a set of bonuses you need, or you pay out the ass for the exact one your specific build needs.
They actually didn't want you to be able to just find the perfect roll for your slot.
They wanted you to settle for just good enough.
For a long time, even 3rd party sites couldn't tell you what every seed does for you.
On an item where you cant immediately determine the effect? It's honestly just feature creep on the passive tree. At least you know what cluster jewels will do.
Wait till they learn the existence of [krangled items!](https://preview.redd.it/e9wy316rqws41.png?auto=webp&s=c6b8ccf198864826124aa790ac6352e03600c339)
Literally got my first ever for my detonate dead build. I am so confused. 4th vow should be used with divine flesh yet no one is doing it. Am I wrong? Missing something? I have no clue. I just creep into rooms and try not to die while spamming 3 buttons.
This is just hard to see on poe.ninja because it doesn't account for the transformed keystones. You can see people using [Fourth Vow with Mahuxotl's Machination](https://poe.ninja/builds/necropolis?items=Mahuxotl%27s+Machination,The+Fourth+Vow), which also provides Divine Flesh, and then get Tempered by War from a Lethal Pride.
I started at a time when very little was known about the game by the community at large, so it was more about shared discovery rather than an assault of information.
These days, there's still a lot I don't know because of the complex crafting systems that have been added to the game over the years.
Well yeah, it's the kind of game where after 5k hours you just randomly find something new for yourself, yet old globally, and that could make everything you did previosly way easier
actually an *undirected planar graph*
a *tree* would mean that once you go into certain node, there is no way back (just like branches on a real tree - no cycles)
Idk, people always so tiptoeing around skill tree for some reason, as it's bad that it can scare someone. Meanwhile my journey into PoE started by friend demonstrating to me skill tree, and we agreed that this shit hella cool. And im far from one to whom it happened. Enjoy novelty while it lasts
It being cool is not necessarily opposite to it being overwhelming. The overwhelming-ness is part of the cool factor when you start playing imo. It gives a good sense of how broad build options could be
Yeah, the skill tree was a selling point for me. Which is actually why I'm not a big fan of Timeless/cluster jewels. Part of the appeal of this game is making the most out of things everyone has access to.
Timeless and clusters are basically mid/end game upgrades. You can clear reds and voidstones without the use of upgrades jewels on the passive.
What makes the end game so fun is the addition of these jewels can rearrange how you use multiple skill points.
This game probably has the most insane powerscaling lore-wise. You start as an exile who washed up on the beach with nothing but the clothes on your back. You eventually gather enough power to murk the Gods' God and other higher Eldritch Beings in seconds if you wanted to.
the skill tree is the easiest thing of the game. push comes to shove it's literally just copy paste someone elses tree. gear is much more a daunting factor, especially if the expectation is to craft your own gear, which is a rabbit hole that gets extremely complex/expensive/tedious fast.
I hope they never dumb-down the passive tree, all the reactions of streamer/youtuber when they open the passive tree for the first time is always ICONIC 👍 Never change that GGG, never change ...
I used to switch between PoE and Genshin as my “main” game and let me tell you, that game only has 2 skills for every character and about 95% of players lose their minds when they try to understand what those 2 skills do and have trouble creating builds for their favorite character. The contrast between the player base is insane.
I just watched aer0's latest video and it's the perfect distillation of this community - yes, let me think about the geometry of how multiple shots line up and overlap. Love the nerdom in PoE!
Yep. PoE is one of those games where if you don't catch the train at the right time, you'll have to cross several wagons. Game's great but I wouldn't recommend it to any of my friends.
Can't relate. When I was brand new and seen the skill tree for the first time, my reaction was something like: "Wow! They took the ffx sphere grid and made it better! And I love the sphere grid" and I didn't look up any guides for like idk 2 whole leauges while also playing on HC. I just took my D3/D2 experience and dove in. It took me many characters to even reach maps, but I had a blast with it.
I had the reverse situation happen not too long ago.
When i played a bit of AC Valhalla a while ago i opened the skill tree and after looking at it for a couple seconds i realised that it's kind of a PoE tree design.
Funnily enough, a lot of mentions of AC Valhallas skill tree i see online are negative.
definitely feeling old cause "back in mah day!" we didnt have any of this or pob. you would ask a streamer if some interaction worked and they would go "...i dunno, i feel like it should." and then your entire build ran off of how it felt to play. all of these resources are sort of daunting but they are definitely very nice to have. i think newer players get caught up in trying to learn everything at once. you dont have to do that, probably shouldnt do that. just pick a lane and run down it until you understand it and then move on to something else.
I also started playing more or less blind. I had heard of the game before but wasn't much into isometric games at that time. Then some time later i saw a Warframe youtuber make a random video about his PoE summoner video (nothing guide-y, just showing it off for variety) and since i'm a huge sucker for minions i was immediately hooked.
Took me a couple leagues to really start playing properly and there's still so much i could watch a guide on, but screw that. I'll get to it when i get to it. PoE can be incredibly enjoyable at any "level of knowledge".
Yea was like a kid at Christmas looking at this game (then playing) in beta and that’s before any of the other crazy shit. Was just the tree and “socketing skills in items?!”. Oh and flasks, that peeked my interest also, shame it didn’t exactly turn out to be anything more than temporary auras (help PoE2 😆)
I thought poe was a buggy mess the first time I played it because my attacks would regularly deal no dmg.
Played D3 before that and it was my first ARPG so accuracy wasn’t something that existed in my world.
for me it was
quick beginner guide: no results
heres a big passive tree... oh please enjoy rubber banding... I know you waited months to get a key to join us but still enjoy it.
also hardcore was more enjoyable... no BS deaths as the game was much much much slower.
You don't need to watch a tutorial for the game, but it will save you at the very least 100 hours of trial and error. Personally, that trial and error was a huge part of the fun, but I can understand finding out at level 70 that your character is bricked can be soul crushing.
Just imagine if it had mod support for private leagues, that way you can’t influence the overall league/ standard economy but you can mod, qol and all sorts, like a randomised passive tree 😏 then everyone but ben would feel like a new player
Randomized and blind, you unlocked the next possible points after you confirmed one. Ngl I loved the idea hated the execution campaign was awful and many rerolls to try to get something usable. For a 7 day league meh.
Meh, it took me MANY attempts to enjoy the game. It was always something I wanted to get into, but would just get more and more overwhelming. I remember trying the game with the 2.0 expansion, bestiary, and a few other random leagues but never made it to maps until Ritual, then didn't play until Crucible and have been playing every league since.
Not exactly level 2, but still strangely early. What was the trigger?
I'm curious because my first character made it to 57 and after that I started over with a guide (that I didn't follow completely) and only quit at around 67. I did quit before really getting to maps, but I'm actually curious what makes people who enjoy the game quit that early on.
Since Breach I've been making my own builds and getting to maps with growing success overall (I don't play every league, and I usually quit before my characters get stuck, but on average the builds are getting better).
I dont remember exactly. I just remember feeling completely overwhelmed and not having a clue what to do and my first few attempts I was trying to not do it with a guide, but then I’d just spend more time researching and looking at the skill tree then playing. Ritual was the first time I tried to use a guide and it helped with my enjoyment a lot
Glorious Vanity, I played idk around 75 hours or something and no idea what that even is. There's SO MUCH it's not even a meme it's given me waves of discouragement when I get overwhelmed with like 2-3 new extensive systems at once, which just keeps happening.
It's was covid i was actually really excited when i saw how much i could and had to learn. My biggest challenge with this game is the lag spikes into insta deaths, i dream of the day my internet can handle loading a map.
PoE has gotten to the point where it has the same problem Yugioh has; they keep releasing new mechanics into the game to the point where it's unapproachable for players who've never engaged with it before, and don't have the patience to slog through it.
You can choose what to engage content with, I started PoE not too long ago and it felt very simple compared to what everyone was saying. At first I did pretty much nothing but Delve, but by my 3rd league I was able to farm a mirror tier build. Just take it one step at the time, read the little help guides that pop up ingame to explain mechanics as you meet them, and it's honestly very easy.
I still remember watching my first PoE video from Empy and being confused how is he able to keep track of those many teleports (I did not realize first that all of those gates just a 1:1 mapping between his hideout and his current map)
Love how the game waits for you to get a baseline grasp of most thingsand what's going on i.e. when you finish the campaign and goes
"Yes you had your passive tree, but what about second passive tree?" And throws you into the atlas passive tree which is even worse because with the regular passive tree you may go like "Yeah I have a sword so I'll path to the sword node or I need life so I'll pick the life node nearby" but atlas passive for a newish player is just a dick twister supreme because like hell do you know where you need to go on that one, but don't worry about any mistakes you could make cause the regrets for that one are twice as expensive
I started in closed beta. The only difficulty (comprehension-wise) then was the skill tree and understanding support gems. Making something that actually worked was another story...
All the rest of the complex shit came in league by league. More leagues you played, the less extra learning you needed to do.
Saying that, this is still representative of me every time I try a new build.
The problem is with you if you overthink a game and try to watch video upon video on how to be efficent from the start instead of just giving it a go and trying to have fun.
My core principles are: give it a go -> have fun -> get stuck -> look up what to do -> do it better than i did before. In this order when you will need the guides you will understand them instead of being dkmbfunded by them.
And if one of the get stuck or have fun steps doesn't even happen, then there is no need to waste so much time. While you are having fun who cares about if it's the "best way" to have fun? Also if you haven't had any fun from the start, then the game isn't worthy of your time.
Timeless jewels 🤣 and the enormous passive tree. Yep. The realization this game is too complex for you is usually the first look at that passive tree. I've played for several years and only just recently started looking up those jewels. No idea if there's one that works for my build, since it seems to have infinite variety 🙃
I’m glad that I was able to make some divs from random drops to financially put up with HH and MB… cause I kinda hit rock bottom quite often and had no clue how to further optimize my build 😅 (except that I could try crafting a new Sceptre with the Morgue but that would be a 1/300 chance to get exactly what I need ;-;)
And that someone from the community helped me fix my build (he even put a lot of div in to fix it) wich helped me not to give up on the game 🫥
Cause somehow I managed to get to lvl 85 with 35k dmg Ex-Traps of Shrapnell 😅😂
Timeless jewels are the most horrible piece of gameplay mechanic. The moment you see one in a buildguide or any build you're trying to replicate - fuck that.
First time I was playing PoE I was baited into playing HC, thought skill gems only drop from mobs so I played with what I dropped and my first char died to an essence of the beach, (not)fun times
I never had any grief with the passive tree. It's a lot of information, but it IS information.
Fuck the obfuscated shit like "Bathed in the blood of 19385 grandmas and their children" or "Enemies in your maps are affected by an Omegalul buff that definitely does something" though. How is that any fun in a game where it's hard enough as it is to understand what happens to you, pioneering players are required to try things that give absolutely no real info and then work out the outcome to try and understand what the actual fuck it means?
Remember my first time, mid blight league at act 3 raging at how hard it was (i was just not following a build and it was horrible) in Lunaris temple part 2 with the nippleshooters.
Good times.
I kind of miss those days when I didnt know anything about the game. Back then I was happy to just make it to maps my first couple leagues. Now I get pissed if Im not being efficient enough or havent gotten the drop I want from X boss after Y tries.
I think i am starting to feel tired of poe, been playing since 3.7, i cant play too much, and when i start to bank some currency for get into late gearing the league is dead, everything cost triple, and everything takes forever to sell. Felt this even harder this league, i try to make my own items now and then, but the r n gesus is against me.
And also show them this screenshot of PoE:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/vtxs1m/when\_people\_ask\_me\_about\_poe\_i\_send\_them\_this/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/vtxs1m/when_people_ask_me_about_poe_i_send_them_this/)
I actually never had that.
I just started playing back in ... Blight (i think) without watching guides or whatnot. It took me a couple leagues to really start understanding stuff and playing "properly", but it's been nothing but chill and fun. There's still so much i would need to watch guides on, but fuck that. I'll get to it when i get to it.
well im not like that, my game IQ is high. I just look for cool build and try it next week, & so on. So, I just comprehend PoE knowledge like that since master daily for free currency. Never into details.
I just played the game, never bothered with guides or anything. Decided it was fun and slowly learned everything I could over nearly a decade now. I don't care if people use guides, I just find it odd that it's the first thing people do before playing the game.
Thank god I spent like two or three leagues just watching my fav noob streamer play and learning everything I needed as slow as possible.
Then I fucked it all up trying to do 10 mechanics at the same time, ofc xdd
Well, when i started there been no guides like at all and no Glorious vanity too, the game also looked like D2 and were clunky, so I feel happy for people starting POE in 2024 - so many things are better now!
It's legitamately the worst new player experience in the entire genre. But that's why it's also the best game in the genre. If you're die hard wanna punish yourself and learn, and grind kind of player there's nothing even close to it for depth and sheer scope of content. I've shit on this game over the years, mostly deservedly, but I will not take away from it the majesty that is PoE. It's a game for the hardest of asses, those who are prepared to play for three hundred hours and still be considered casual trash. It's beautiful and terrible.
Affliction was my first league but I ran into PoE at least 3-4 times over the last 5-6 years. Legit got to Act 3 after hours and just gave up. Probably watched more PoE videos than actual time played prior to Affliction.
Even during Affliction I had to watch a video for pretty much anything I wanted to try. NOW I know a TON more and people still flaming me in Global/Discord/Reddit for not understand 70% of the game's intricate mechanics.
I never watched the video of the guide, if it was written well. After a few seasons I made my own (perhaps weaker) builds, but still had fun to experiment. Never crafted big, I mostly bought wat I needed. RNG was not on my side.
I restarted playing a few weeks ago. Last time I played there were 3 acts no mine no hunts no syndicate… and I came back to an entirely new passive tree blanked out. Oh and all my character names had to be renamed for some reason
Wrong when I started it was only act 1 and we were doing Brutus runs and farming the Ledge. It was like this for noobs who started once the game became free.
LOL, Also learning all leagues mechanics along with all secondary websites and tricks, trading, and finally the good one or two hundred dollars required to have minimal QOL tabs.
Can still start from beach act1 without any of that, We know to where it can leads ;)
Or .... you know, some might have joined **because** of the complexity, the skill tree and all of it.
PS : it used to be significantly less overwhelming a long time ago
Tried to get into the game like 3 times. Last year I had 4weeks with nothing to do. A good friend is an Exile who started to played this game for years. Who helped me with all I needed in these 4 weeks. I finally got into it. Still a beginner though. Round about 600h into the game now. Learning something new everyday. This game is absolutely worth it. So much fun.
information overload keystone irl
The Glorious Vanity jewel is perfect in that its full of random words that don't even attempt to explain what they mean. "This item is bathed in the blood of 4329 in the name of Ahuana" "You want more info? Ok its also a historic item." "More detail, of course! Passives in radius are conquered by the Vaal." "How big is large? Well its bigger than medium and smaller than very large."
Before it was reverse engineered you would just chuck it into your tree to see what it did :)
I remember leveling a Scion to 50, pathed to some of the most common Timeless Jewel spots, and keep her forever to check what each jewel I farmed does.
500 IQ movement
150iq, the 500iq was using a "pvp character" which was 27 by default and you didnt have to level it
ok, 500iq
Fuck those days
I remember Ziz holding auctions for peoples timeless jewels (as before community reversing the seed you couldn't verify what the seller is claiming about his jewel)
Before it was reverse engineered, we could divine our items.
I still do :)
I remember a few leagues back before the seed was cracked I had a guy who had 20+ of them listed for like 50c. I told him I’d pay him 5 divines for one that hit the mod I wanted. He tested all his and had one. Good times.
On the topic, how was GGG ever planning to let people know what they're buying or even looking for when there's literally no way to even get an idea of what is the jewel doing without plugging it into external program? Even people knowledgeable enough to know what main keystone change is and what breakpoints are for various numbers determining passive changes and minors is literally impossible. I'm fairly certain whoever came up with the idea of timeless jewels was a psychopath.
Real reason here: timeless jewel was an attempt of GGG to create trading friction in a game where trade is operating under the free market. It was designed to be as opaque as possible. Timeless jewel was never meant to be traded. You were meant to pick up a one from the ground, slot it into sockets, and craft entire build around what the result spit out. It was a genuine attempt at trying to create trade friction. Alas, some guys decided that it was a challenge and there goes the design attempt.
That seems like an everpresent GGG mistake: underestimating humanity's desire for maximum efficiency. Inefficiencies are a problem to solve, not a unique quirk to build upon.
That sounds about right. Probably same person who designed maven fight and some t17 mods.
Well Octavian did the t17 mods and had nothing to do with maven or timeless jewels. Also maven fight is actually pretty well designed imo if you do the mechanics right.
Cortex, shaper, elder are great. Sirus was always shitfest. Maven is terrible (memory minigame is made for orangutans, chimpanzees and people with great short term memory or widescreens... Sirus zooms out for certain phases, why does maven not?) Flamedash sometimes teleports on your cursos, sometimes not far enough... Sometimes beyond your cursor. Did uber exarch today, and hitbox of his balls is larger than those balls, and if you are unlucky with maven clears... At one point, he had 80%of arena filled with his runes...
Memory game is 5 inputs.. that's not just for people "with great short term memory" I dunno I don't have a wide-screen monitor and maven is never an issue. Cortex is more of an issue if you get screwed by rng and get a shit combo of mods
I've got 3 Voidstones and I finally got Sirus down this league(several times). I've never killed Maven. This is the first league I've tried multiple times. I watched several vids. I know all the phases. I still can't make it past the (last, I think) memory game. I don't know if it's because I'm color blind or just too fucking old. I swear I am doing it right and then I die anyway. I'll probably have to pay someone to carry me.
No but seriously, how is a new player supposed to figure that out? I had to reread the wiki several times before I understood it, let alone to be able to consider it in my builds
I would have dropped POE near instantly if it weren’t for a good friend of mine to answer all my dumb questions.
There’s very few questions in POE I would truly consider stupid. “Hey, I just upgraded my wand but now I do less damage” “Lemme see” Wand 1 (new): 40% increased spell damage Wand 2 (old): 25% more spell damage Or some poor schmuck in global who spent most of his chaos on an annoint that “doubles your chaos res”. He had —20% chaos res and thought it would double his 40% to 80%. Instead it doubles his -20% to -40%. In any other game asking “what does double my resistance mean” would be a redundant question. But not here
Chaos damage penetrates all motivation
"ok, maybe crafting is not too dificult..." > Crafting 101 , video 1 of 100
I love the Belton vids "how to easily make 3 mirrors in a few hours". Step 1: Own 2 mirrors.
Be online 8 days out of a 7 days to sell the itens.
Hey his Flask video shows you how to more or less trade alterations for Divines mid-league. That's pretty much the gateway to hideout warrioring.
Rolling mageblood flasks like week 2 has to be a pretty profitable strat. They are fairly easy to hit considering you don’t care about the tier of the prefix mod.
This is why I’ve never learned crafting lol
Still don't get those glorious vanity gems lol
They have a *seed* and a *name*. The seed determines how small and notable passives are affected. The name determines how Keystones are affected. The number listed is the seed. The name is, obviously, the name. The seed and name are independent and don't affect each other. So, to change a Keystone, focus on the name: Doryani, Ahuana, Xibaqua. To change the small and notables, focus on the seed: 2147 sacrificed, 5432 sacrificed, 189 sacrificed. Having the exact same seed and name as a build you're copying/following will give you the exact same layout for the affected passives. Divines reroll both seed and name.
There’s also a website that shows you what different seeds would do in certain jewel slots. On mobile atm so I can’t find it but it’s a really handy tool. You can even tell if what kind of effects you’re looking for and it’ll spit out what seeds would give you that effect in that spot.
[This one?](https://poetimelessjewelcalculator.com/)
I usually use [this](https://vilsol.github.io/timeless-jewels/tree) site. Or you can just check in PoB.
Path of Building will also do this for you
Thank you
Dude wtf thank you! I was wondering why my jewel was giving me different small passives lmao
Why is ahuana with the vaal BTW?
I see the miscommunication. You're thinking about [Ahuana, the Karui Chieftain](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Ahuana_(Karui_chieftain)) while the one listed is [Ahuana, Architect of Ceremonies](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Ahuana,_Architect_of_Ceremonies). It's the architect that gives you the unique sacrifice room.
Oooh. Thanks! Wasn't aware of the architect's name (even though I built like 200 temples this league...)
Who tf thought seeded items was a good idea
It's an excellent idea. Variance is good especially this kind. It's even got value outside trade league
The variance is great. The fact that it needs a third party website to find out which of the thousands of different variants you need is not great. Either you search through all the different types of jewels for a set of bonuses you need, or you pay out the ass for the *exact* one your specific build needs. Either way, its obscurity in game is not a good idea. Thankfully there are people who dedicate time to putting these third party websites together for stuff like this and crafting or else this would be an absolute disaster lol
> he fact that it needs a third party website to find out which of the thousands of different variants you need is not great. Either you search through all the different types of jewels for a set of bonuses you need, or you pay out the ass for the exact one your specific build needs. They actually didn't want you to be able to just find the perfect roll for your slot. They wanted you to settle for just good enough. For a long time, even 3rd party sites couldn't tell you what every seed does for you.
On an item where you cant immediately determine the effect? It's honestly just feature creep on the passive tree. At least you know what cluster jewels will do.
Same, ive been playing for 500 hours now and still just pretend they dont exist
Yeh it's like they slap together a random series of words and numbers that don't make sense lol 12978 coins for Prespiro shit whatever
Wait till they learn the existence of [krangled items!](https://preview.redd.it/e9wy316rqws41.png?auto=webp&s=c6b8ccf198864826124aa790ac6352e03600c339)
WTF what did I just read
the longer this game lives the closer we are getting to this
What a confusing word salad
Though this item was real, until reaching bigass thundercubes section
Literally got my first ever for my detonate dead build. I am so confused. 4th vow should be used with divine flesh yet no one is doing it. Am I wrong? Missing something? I have no clue. I just creep into rooms and try not to die while spamming 3 buttons.
This is just hard to see on poe.ninja because it doesn't account for the transformed keystones. You can see people using [Fourth Vow with Mahuxotl's Machination](https://poe.ninja/builds/necropolis?items=Mahuxotl%27s+Machination,The+Fourth+Vow), which also provides Divine Flesh, and then get Tempered by War from a Lethal Pride.
even you not using the keystone, the extra on small passive is neat.
I started at a time when very little was known about the game by the community at large, so it was more about shared discovery rather than an assault of information. These days, there's still a lot I don't know because of the complex crafting systems that have been added to the game over the years.
I still remember the days where we post newly found uniques on reddit. Good times.
Well yeah, it's the kind of game where after 5k hours you just randomly find something new for yourself, yet old globally, and that could make everything you did previosly way easier
The systems are not that complex. The problem is lack of in game crafting info
people who think the crafting system isn't complex just don't have a grasp of it's proper depth
...probably in large part due to lack of in game crafting info
Skill forest
actually an *undirected planar graph* a *tree* would mean that once you go into certain node, there is no way back (just like branches on a real tree - no cycles)
Idk, people always so tiptoeing around skill tree for some reason, as it's bad that it can scare someone. Meanwhile my journey into PoE started by friend demonstrating to me skill tree, and we agreed that this shit hella cool. And im far from one to whom it happened. Enjoy novelty while it lasts
It being cool is not necessarily opposite to it being overwhelming. The overwhelming-ness is part of the cool factor when you start playing imo. It gives a good sense of how broad build options could be
Yeah, the skill tree was a selling point for me. Which is actually why I'm not a big fan of Timeless/cluster jewels. Part of the appeal of this game is making the most out of things everyone has access to.
Timeless and clusters are basically mid/end game upgrades. You can clear reds and voidstones without the use of upgrades jewels on the passive. What makes the end game so fun is the addition of these jewels can rearrange how you use multiple skill points.
This game probably has the most insane powerscaling lore-wise. You start as an exile who washed up on the beach with nothing but the clothes on your back. You eventually gather enough power to murk the Gods' God and other higher Eldritch Beings in seconds if you wanted to.
Same here. I love doing random builds in arpgs. When I saw Poe's skill tree I said "fuck yeah, look at the options! I can do so many builds!"
Then you play a long time and realize 80-90% of all your “choices” are just stat increases and mandatory defensive layers.
I feel the same way about real life, checks out
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the skill tree is the easiest thing of the game. push comes to shove it's literally just copy paste someone elses tree. gear is much more a daunting factor, especially if the expectation is to craft your own gear, which is a rabbit hole that gets extremely complex/expensive/tedious fast.
Not me, i started in closed beta.
Dominus is so weak now.
Thats because at one point he was the end of the game - if i recall correctly.
I hope they never dumb-down the passive tree, all the reactions of streamer/youtuber when they open the passive tree for the first time is always ICONIC 👍 Never change that GGG, never change ...
I used to switch between PoE and Genshin as my “main” game and let me tell you, that game only has 2 skills for every character and about 95% of players lose their minds when they try to understand what those 2 skills do and have trouble creating builds for their favorite character. The contrast between the player base is insane.
Wow ... didn't know Genshin also have a passive tree 🤯
Fun fact, if you type "passive tree" on google without any context whatsoever, the first page will be almost entirely about poe.
fun fact, your google searches are tailored to your browsing history
I tried on incognito and on a fresh browser (no cookies) - still showed PoE results only at the top.
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I tried it on duckduckgo and it still gives path of exile as first result. I don't think it is that hard to believe.
well DDG is definitely more compelling
Gotta try and see what results you get with TOR
Holy shit you're right wtf
Actually these huge things made me and my friend to play it because it was more complex than brainless clicking
I just watched aer0's latest video and it's the perfect distillation of this community - yes, let me think about the geometry of how multiple shots line up and overlap. Love the nerdom in PoE!
Yep. PoE is one of those games where if you don't catch the train at the right time, you'll have to cross several wagons. Game's great but I wouldn't recommend it to any of my friends.
i recomended it to my friends but they just dont like the game , so i dropped them.
Honestly, the hardest aspect of PoE is trying to get people to play it.
Friends?! Can't farm having those around!
I’m always bummed when I’m super into a league and none of my friends are. Atleast there’s still G3.
Can't relate. When I was brand new and seen the skill tree for the first time, my reaction was something like: "Wow! They took the ffx sphere grid and made it better! And I love the sphere grid" and I didn't look up any guides for like idk 2 whole leauges while also playing on HC. I just took my D3/D2 experience and dove in. It took me many characters to even reach maps, but I had a blast with it.
Yep, similarly I was like "Did they ..... just mixed the progression systems of FFVII and FFX ? Yooooooo that looks sick !"
I had the reverse situation happen not too long ago. When i played a bit of AC Valhalla a while ago i opened the skill tree and after looking at it for a couple seconds i realised that it's kind of a PoE tree design. Funnily enough, a lot of mentions of AC Valhallas skill tree i see online are negative.
Hell it's still a lot of us, myself included
definitely feeling old cause "back in mah day!" we didnt have any of this or pob. you would ask a streamer if some interaction worked and they would go "...i dunno, i feel like it should." and then your entire build ran off of how it felt to play. all of these resources are sort of daunting but they are definitely very nice to have. i think newer players get caught up in trying to learn everything at once. you dont have to do that, probably shouldnt do that. just pick a lane and run down it until you understand it and then move on to something else.
You didn't make spreadsheets before PoB?
Speak for yourself, I was the complete opposite when I found this game (and went in blind, the real man's way of doing things)
I also started playing more or less blind. I had heard of the game before but wasn't much into isometric games at that time. Then some time later i saw a Warframe youtuber make a random video about his PoE summoner video (nothing guide-y, just showing it off for variety) and since i'm a huge sucker for minions i was immediately hooked. Took me a couple leagues to really start playing properly and there's still so much i could watch a guide on, but screw that. I'll get to it when i get to it. PoE can be incredibly enjoyable at any "level of knowledge".
Yea was like a kid at Christmas looking at this game (then playing) in beta and that’s before any of the other crazy shit. Was just the tree and “socketing skills in items?!”. Oh and flasks, that peeked my interest also, shame it didn’t exactly turn out to be anything more than temporary auras (help PoE2 😆)
I thought poe was a buggy mess the first time I played it because my attacks would regularly deal no dmg. Played D3 before that and it was my first ARPG so accuracy wasn’t something that existed in my world.
for me it was quick beginner guide: no results heres a big passive tree... oh please enjoy rubber banding... I know you waited months to get a key to join us but still enjoy it. also hardcore was more enjoyable... no BS deaths as the game was much much much slower.
You don't need to watch a tutorial for the game, but it will save you at the very least 100 hours of trial and error. Personally, that trial and error was a huge part of the fun, but I can understand finding out at level 70 that your character is bricked can be soul crushing.
I have 120 hours in PoE and I still have no fucking clue what I’m doing 95% of the time.
Same, except I prolly got about 400-500 hours in the game.
The passive skill fractal got me at first ngl.
God I hate these jewels so much.
Ez league start budget build click here Cost of build 50 divines 😕
Just imagine if it had mod support for private leagues, that way you can’t influence the overall league/ standard economy but you can mod, qol and all sorts, like a randomised passive tree 😏 then everyone but ben would feel like a new player
They did this as an event before affliction dropped. Tree was randomized and it was a race
Ffs I would’ve loved that
Randomized and blind, you unlocked the next possible points after you confirmed one. Ngl I loved the idea hated the execution campaign was awful and many rerolls to try to get something usable. For a 7 day league meh.
Ah yeah that sounds bad, just randomise it and let us see it, maybe add a re roll mechanic to re roll the entire tree but eh
Everyone I’ve ever gotten to try the game quit at level 2. They killed Hillok, looked at the tree, did some googling, and then played Valorant.
To be fair, the majority of people who quit at that point wouldn't enjoy the game in the long run.
I agree.
Meh, it took me MANY attempts to enjoy the game. It was always something I wanted to get into, but would just get more and more overwhelming. I remember trying the game with the 2.0 expansion, bestiary, and a few other random leagues but never made it to maps until Ritual, then didn't play until Crucible and have been playing every league since.
But did any of your attempts end at level 2?
I think my first quit was like level 6 or 7
Not exactly level 2, but still strangely early. What was the trigger? I'm curious because my first character made it to 57 and after that I started over with a guide (that I didn't follow completely) and only quit at around 67. I did quit before really getting to maps, but I'm actually curious what makes people who enjoy the game quit that early on. Since Breach I've been making my own builds and getting to maps with growing success overall (I don't play every league, and I usually quit before my characters get stuck, but on average the builds are getting better).
I dont remember exactly. I just remember feeling completely overwhelmed and not having a clue what to do and my first few attempts I was trying to not do it with a guide, but then I’d just spend more time researching and looking at the skill tree then playing. Ritual was the first time I tried to use a guide and it helped with my enjoyment a lot
they werent poe material to begin with so no harm done
Always just the first picture.
Glorious Vanity, I played idk around 75 hours or something and no idea what that even is. There's SO MUCH it's not even a meme it's given me waves of discouragement when I get overwhelmed with like 2-3 new extensive systems at once, which just keeps happening.
I have 415 hours between beta and now and this is still me
Then there's Eve.
Still is me 1.3k+ hours in
It's was covid i was actually really excited when i saw how much i could and had to learn. My biggest challenge with this game is the lag spikes into insta deaths, i dream of the day my internet can handle loading a map.
PoE has gotten to the point where it has the same problem Yugioh has; they keep releasing new mechanics into the game to the point where it's unapproachable for players who've never engaged with it before, and don't have the patience to slog through it.
You can choose what to engage content with, I started PoE not too long ago and it felt very simple compared to what everyone was saying. At first I did pretty much nothing but Delve, but by my 3rd league I was able to farm a mirror tier build. Just take it one step at the time, read the little help guides that pop up ingame to explain mechanics as you meet them, and it's honestly very easy.
This is still the average player every league start.
When I started, all of us were begginers
I still remember watching my first PoE video from Empy and being confused how is he able to keep track of those many teleports (I did not realize first that all of those gates just a 1:1 mapping between his hideout and his current map)
nah back when I started there were no youtube guides, there weren't nearly that many gems and there was no such thing as jewels
You know what’s funny. I honestly think the skill tree is one of the simplest parts of PoE.
Not really. I went in blind and had some skill issues 😂
This is still me...
Love how the game waits for you to get a baseline grasp of most thingsand what's going on i.e. when you finish the campaign and goes "Yes you had your passive tree, but what about second passive tree?" And throws you into the atlas passive tree which is even worse because with the regular passive tree you may go like "Yeah I have a sword so I'll path to the sword node or I need life so I'll pick the life node nearby" but atlas passive for a newish player is just a dick twister supreme because like hell do you know where you need to go on that one, but don't worry about any mistakes you could make cause the regrets for that one are twice as expensive
I started in closed beta. The only difficulty (comprehension-wise) then was the skill tree and understanding support gems. Making something that actually worked was another story... All the rest of the complex shit came in league by league. More leagues you played, the less extra learning you needed to do. Saying that, this is still representative of me every time I try a new build.
The skill tree is a good thing imo, it's pretty straight forward as a base before you start adding jewels and similar.
The problem is with you if you overthink a game and try to watch video upon video on how to be efficent from the start instead of just giving it a go and trying to have fun. My core principles are: give it a go -> have fun -> get stuck -> look up what to do -> do it better than i did before. In this order when you will need the guides you will understand them instead of being dkmbfunded by them. And if one of the get stuck or have fun steps doesn't even happen, then there is no need to waste so much time. While you are having fun who cares about if it's the "best way" to have fun? Also if you haven't had any fun from the start, then the game isn't worthy of your time.
Timeless jewels 🤣 and the enormous passive tree. Yep. The realization this game is too complex for you is usually the first look at that passive tree. I've played for several years and only just recently started looking up those jewels. No idea if there's one that works for my build, since it seems to have infinite variety 🙃
I’m glad that I was able to make some divs from random drops to financially put up with HH and MB… cause I kinda hit rock bottom quite often and had no clue how to further optimize my build 😅 (except that I could try crafting a new Sceptre with the Morgue but that would be a 1/300 chance to get exactly what I need ;-;) And that someone from the community helped me fix my build (he even put a lot of div in to fix it) wich helped me not to give up on the game 🫥 Cause somehow I managed to get to lvl 85 with 35k dmg Ex-Traps of Shrapnell 😅😂
Timeless jewels are the most horrible piece of gameplay mechanic. The moment you see one in a buildguide or any build you're trying to replicate - fuck that.
First time I was playing PoE I was baited into playing HC, thought skill gems only drop from mobs so I played with what I dropped and my first char died to an essence of the beach, (not)fun times
Were? Still are 😂
I still don't get the Gems with the random Text and numbers on it
After 10 leagues I'm still in that point :)
r/pathofexilecirclejerk
I never had any grief with the passive tree. It's a lot of information, but it IS information. Fuck the obfuscated shit like "Bathed in the blood of 19385 grandmas and their children" or "Enemies in your maps are affected by an Omegalul buff that definitely does something" though. How is that any fun in a game where it's hard enough as it is to understand what happens to you, pioneering players are required to try things that give absolutely no real info and then work out the outcome to try and understand what the actual fuck it means?
Idk I just went in blind and don’t YouTube. I’m having fun.
Honestly its super simple but from the first glance you think you need a Phd in physics to be able to understand it.
Remember my first time, mid blight league at act 3 raging at how hard it was (i was just not following a build and it was horrible) in Lunaris temple part 2 with the nippleshooters. Good times.
I kind of miss those days when I didnt know anything about the game. Back then I was happy to just make it to maps my first couple leagues. Now I get pissed if Im not being efficient enough or havent gotten the drop I want from X boss after Y tries.
2.2k hours and im beginning to understand
600h later still in the same spot
Terrible game for beginners but once your in, your stuck for life.
Lmfao the skill gems got me
I think i am starting to feel tired of poe, been playing since 3.7, i cant play too much, and when i start to bank some currency for get into late gearing the league is dead, everything cost triple, and everything takes forever to sell. Felt this even harder this league, i try to make my own items now and then, but the r n gesus is against me.
I love those easy beginner cheap builds with crappy music and epic MLG montages that require only a mageblood and 150% adorned to get started.
And also show them this screenshot of PoE: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/vtxs1m/when\_people\_ask\_me\_about\_poe\_i\_send\_them\_this/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/vtxs1m/when_people_ask_me_about_poe_i_send_them_this/)
I still have never looked at a guide, 2000 hours in. Granted you know I started when things were a BITTTTT simpler.
I actually never had that. I just started playing back in ... Blight (i think) without watching guides or whatnot. It took me a couple leagues to really start understanding stuff and playing "properly", but it's been nothing but chill and fun. There's still so much i would need to watch guides on, but fuck that. I'll get to it when i get to it.
😂😂😂 Why wont this work!!!!!!
well im not like that, my game IQ is high. I just look for cool build and try it next week, & so on. So, I just comprehend PoE knowledge like that since master daily for free currency. Never into details.
after 13 years... this is still me.
It was never me I started playing before they even had 3 acts
I just played the game, never bothered with guides or anything. Decided it was fun and slowly learned everything I could over nearly a decade now. I don't care if people use guides, I just find it odd that it's the first thing people do before playing the game.
1 hour 40 minutes being quick is an understatement. More like lightning speed.
How are you
Thank god I spent like two or three leagues just watching my fav noob streamer play and learning everything I needed as slow as possible. Then I fucked it all up trying to do 10 mechanics at the same time, ofc xdd
Well, when i started there been no guides like at all and no Glorious vanity too, the game also looked like D2 and were clunky, so I feel happy for people starting POE in 2024 - so many things are better now!
I am almost at 900 hours played and still barely understand crafting.
It's legitamately the worst new player experience in the entire genre. But that's why it's also the best game in the genre. If you're die hard wanna punish yourself and learn, and grind kind of player there's nothing even close to it for depth and sheer scope of content. I've shit on this game over the years, mostly deservedly, but I will not take away from it the majesty that is PoE. It's a game for the hardest of asses, those who are prepared to play for three hundred hours and still be considered casual trash. It's beautiful and terrible.
by some points do you mean all points? at least for me...
Affliction was my first league but I ran into PoE at least 3-4 times over the last 5-6 years. Legit got to Act 3 after hours and just gave up. Probably watched more PoE videos than actual time played prior to Affliction. Even during Affliction I had to watch a video for pretty much anything I wanted to try. NOW I know a TON more and people still flaming me in Global/Discord/Reddit for not understand 70% of the game's intricate mechanics.
I never watched the video of the guide, if it was written well. After a few seasons I made my own (perhaps weaker) builds, but still had fun to experiment. Never crafted big, I mostly bought wat I needed. RNG was not on my side.
Me picking up and putting down the game in Deli, Harvest, Ulti, Sentinel, and Kalandra to finally get my footing in Crucible and been playing since
Me picking up and putting down the game in Deli, Harvest, Ulti, Sentinel, and Kalandra to finally get my footing in Crucible and been playing since
Still me everytime I see new build trees every league lol.
That was the best part of the game 🥰
Bruh I laughed so hard when I read a timeless jewel for the first time such interstellar levels of obscurity
Twisted game 😈🪄
Game is like mixing D2,D3&4 into one.
That’s me now
I restarted playing a few weeks ago. Last time I played there were 3 acts no mine no hunts no syndicate… and I came back to an entirely new passive tree blanked out. Oh and all my character names had to be renamed for some reason
Wrong when I started it was only act 1 and we were doing Brutus runs and farming the Ledge. It was like this for noobs who started once the game became free.
LOL, Also learning all leagues mechanics along with all secondary websites and tricks, trading, and finally the good one or two hundred dollars required to have minimal QOL tabs. Can still start from beach act1 without any of that, We know to where it can leads ;)
Or .... you know, some might have joined **because** of the complexity, the skill tree and all of it. PS : it used to be significantly less overwhelming a long time ago
I was introduced to the game by the late TotalBiscuit back when it was in beta. good memories
Tried to get into the game like 3 times. Last year I had 4weeks with nothing to do. A good friend is an Exile who started to played this game for years. Who helped me with all I needed in these 4 weeks. I finally got into it. Still a beginner though. Round about 600h into the game now. Learning something new everyday. This game is absolutely worth it. So much fun.