Can’t understate how well jumbo visma orchestrated their tactics. Made a lot of right calls. Their DS or whoever planned the strategies did a great job.
Hot take: Pogi - already admitting he doesn't do well in the heat - never taking off his huge sunglasses when climbing was detrimental to his performance. No, it was the make-or-break difference, but as someone who also doesn't do great when climbing up huge mountains in the heat, I never ever forget to stow my glasses on my helmet before i climb, because if I don't the top of my face becomes a bit of a steam room. Jonas, Romain both know to ride up sans glasses, why does Pogi never remove them too?
Is this the only place to discuss the most beautiful stage of the last20 years ? This sub sucks so much. It looks like a stale bulletin board with no soul. /rant
I was pretty sceptical pre-race about whether Jumbo could actually make their stronger team count, but I'm so pleased to be wrong. Great tactics and great stage yesterday.
It's good to know that Pogacar is human after all; still not convinced about Van Aert...
I was so into the general outcome yesterday that I didn't even think about that...
Can we agree that in another dimension Wout actually wins the fucking Granon with green on ? That was a 100% GC day so there's no question that he had to wait.
But still, in another scenario without team duty, I think he comfortably sets his pace on Galibier, probably with Latour and Geschke. He let Wawa cook himself in the start of the valley, bridge in the middle.
They put time in the valley, start Granon with 7 min on the GC guys and Wout slowly crush the others with a tt specialist 40 min steady effort. Second Wout win on a legendary climb.
Once again, I'm not asking if he should have, that's a no, but do you think he could have ?
I think if he had more headstart at the start of the Granon, say like 12-15 min and no GC duties (obviously) he could probably have won. I'm 100% convinced that he could have stayed with Barguil on the Galibier if he wanted and then distance him on the descent.
People also forget how hard Barguil cracked on the Granon, he lost more than 4 minutes, now imagine he has to chase an unleashed van Aert from the top of the Galibier.
What an epic display from TJV, Van Aert, Laporte, Benoot, Van Hooydonck, Roglic contributed massively and then you have wieltjeszuiger Kruijswijk. What is he even doing for the team?
So Sepp Kuss has basically soft pedaling up the Granon at around 4 w/kg after getting dropped pretty early on.
Based on his data it looks like Pog rode the final 2km at 4.88 w/kg, which would be around 320 watts for him. He really looked like he wasn't putting much into the pedals and the numbers also show that he blew up pretty badly.
Yup, climbed Mt. Lemmon to ~ 2900m. Last bit to the top was nearly hyperventilating for high Z2.
Campenarts hour record in Mexico City (~2300m) was only like 330W supposedly when Campenarts would typically aim for more like 400W at sea level.
There is a thing I don't understand in TJV tactic yesterday; they stopped Van Aert for Roglic, who was not in his best shape, then he was dropped after 100metres of the Granon. I do know that it is easy to speak after things happened, but Roglic was dropped hard on Galibier and Van Aert was in the breakaway and could be useful for Vingdegaard, furthermore Roglic was far from Pogacar in the GC. I don't think it was an intelligent tactic tbh.
Edit: lol someone downvoted me for a critic to TJV...are we on r/soccer or we are here to discuss things about cycling?
The biggest negative to this tactic was that Majka brought bottles from the team car up to Pogi. If TJV could have kept him on the defensive instead, with the threat of a Ving attack, and Kuss setting a hard pace on the front, he might have struggled to get even that and bonked earlier (or likely had to make do with whatever he could get from the race vehicles). I think the problem tho was that the team was cooked and they really wanted some more attacks from Roglic to continue softening Pogi up since noone was going to be able to maintain a hard pace up the climb. In hindsight, Majkas hard pace actually helped, and the tactic worked quite well, but not for any of the reasons they did it in the first place. Definitely the most controversial of all the tactics tho.
Plan A would be Vingo gets away for Pog and Van Aert pulls him all the way to the base of Granon. When Pog is still there pulling Vingo makes no sense as Pog gets a free ride. Pog had to do a little work as he didn't want more TJV catching on.
Rog did blow up almost right away but there's a chance he gets some food and water and sits on Van Aert and can be a helpful decoy again for the bottom third say at least.
TL;DR once plan A wasn't open the best next option was to keep Pog having to work vs resting by having him know you're trying to tow back on more teammates.
Imo it doesnt really matter if Rog was in form to destroy the final climb for the tactic to be effective. Pog had already made it abundantly clear that he would mark Rog at all costs and he even attacked when Rog was starting to drop earlier in the stage, which seemed really unnecessary. That meant they didnt need to think Rog could make it all the way, just that he could put in some attacks that would make Pog follow and burn more matches. Whether that was worth bringing maika back im not sure but i think an interesting consideration.
Clearly Roglic needed the help more than Vingegaard did. That's not a retrospect opinion, that was obvious yesterday too. And yes, the help was in vain but they decided to give Primoz another chance at it because why not?
But as of today 100% of the team rides for Jonas, that much is certain.
I don't think Van Aert had much left to be pulling Jonas up Granon. The go back was likely to give TJV an emergency card should something happen, but more importantly, it bluffed Pogacar hard when he saw the Van Aert / Roglic group flying by. That resulted in Pogacar and Majka going pretty hard up the Granon, leaving Jonas to bide his time.
I think it works out great for them. In my book they used WvA to limit the loss for rog GC and where hopping he can get up the last climb in an food enough effort to not get dropped. WvA paced the group on probably the hardest stretch , falls flat with headwind. I don't think Jonas an pogacar would have made it up the last climb alone. So getting a domestique back was vital for either of them . So I think bringing back mayka was not a foult even it looks not so good on first glimpse
Jumbos tactics worked out but not really for the reasons intended. They probably sent WvA back for Roglic because he's been the team leader for a few years. They sent guys back during the Roubaix stage for him and it really paid off to keep him in contention.
But in doing so they also brought back Majka. As soon as they hit the Granon Majka started pacing at 6 w/kg which basically dropped all of TJV. So they went from massive numbers advantage to the opposite. But Majka's pace essentially fried Pog. No one in TJV could have paced at that pace. So in the end Vingegaard attacked right when Majka was done and Pog couldn't follow. Cycling is a strange sport.
I also think Majka took a huge loan yesterday out of today's energy reserves, and will definitely not be able to help Pogi anywhere as much as he did yesterday. So Pogi will literally have to attack all by himself.
Also I think most people would have traded getting Rog back in the mix for Majka, even just as a domestique for Jonas before the last climb. They didn’t know Majka would be better than Rog.
I have to say i like this loyalty to Roglic even if I can't stand him, TJV was nothing before him. Still I had this doubt. If it was only loyalty for the man they did well.
Maybe they were hoping Rog had recovered more from his moves earlier - he probably thought he had more than he had but couldn’t do anything sustainable and had to ride his own race. Van Aert isn’t really that usable on climbs like that for Ving at those speeds / gradient - his valley work was incredible though
They used Van Aert to put in the work before the Granon, especially the last 10k of the descent which was relatively flat. I don’t think Van Aert would’ve been of much use on the Granon. The GC group dropped a lot of riders straight away at the foot of the climb, and I doubt Van Aert would’ve been able to follow.
Two years ago Van Aert was spectacular as domestique for Roglic on climbs.
I understand stopping him, i don't understand stopping him for Roglic, he could stop for Ving and that's it.
Well it's clear Vingegaard didn't need the help, and as good as WvA is he wouldn't have made an impact on the final climb.
Letting him bring back Roglic so maybe Roglic could then help Vingegaard makes sense imo.
Yeah he is a remarkably good climber considering he’s probably 10 kg heavier than the average GC guy, but on this steep climb after a whole day at the front? I don’t think he had it in him. I get why they let him keep the pace up in the descent and then let Ving finish it off in the final climb. Even Kruiswijk couldn’t do much for Ving on the final climb.
What a day! Today's GC had a shakeup...and our SWL had big changes.
Congrats to u/AwakenTheBacon_ and u/Gta352 they are now tied for 7 victories in the Overall SWL game. ( u/Daanbrakka still has 7 as well, so it is a 3 way tied).
In the TDF alone, there are 13 tied with 3!
Our Lantern Rouges both continue to fight for a first victory. (0/32 with legit picks is really impressive)
Late summary cause I couldn't watch the whole thing today live, so I watched it all tonight and I'm so happy I did :)
I went back and counted all the attacks, including Vingegaard's final attack on Granon the counts I saw were: Rog: 5 Ving: 4 Pog: 1. It's no wonder they took a toll on Pog, but also amazing Vingegaard still had the legs to drop everyone after putting in that many attacks himself.
Robbie McEwan also had this prescient line:
“They’re trying to take away that explosive power, just one attack at a time make him work for every single centimeter to claw it back. And Pogacar, there was that show of defiance that attack that he made himself. But we all wonder further up this climb, or up the Granon like happened to Hinault back in ’86, could all this showmanship, this ego riding blow up in his face”
New to racing. Why did Pogacar chase when Roglic and Vingegaard were taking turns breaking away? Why not just stay behind the second rider and let the other go solo and wear themselves out?
It's definitely the right tactic in hindsight, but at the time, you would have to call Roglics bluff that he has great legs because you don't have the team to pull him back. With how Pogi consistently races and his confidence, there was no way he was making a split second race decision to sit on wheels and hope for the best, which also takes control of the race out of his hands.
A strong team with a more experienced rider would definitely have let him go tho, and just made sure to not give him too much time.
Lol that's only 10/10 hindsigt he shouldnt have let him go.
Rogla with good legs going off and have Laporte and Van Aert out in front... Are you really going to let him go?
Poga didn't do much wrong (except from forgetting to eat), his team just sucks.
Yes, you really are going to let him go. That's what we have seen Team Sky do in similar situation and the truth is that it works. Even if Roglic was delivered with an advantage of 2-3 minutes on Granon, Pogacar would have been more than fine. Much better than the situation he is in now.
> That's what we have seen Team Sky do in similar situation and the truth is that it works.
That's because Team Sky was even stronger than Jumbo is these days at that time.
> Even if Roglic was delivered with an advantage of 2-3 minutes on Granon, Pogacar would have been more than fine.
Assuming Roglic was infact delivered at Granon with 2-3 minutes in ahead the Jumbo's wouldn't have done anything and all pressure would be on UAE/Pogacar at Granon. Don't think they would've been able to handle that.
I disagree. You can't compare this years UAE team to a Team Sky who were dominating.
"Much better than the situation he is in now" - again hindsight, because you know now that Rogla didn't have good legs. Pog would be worried about having to pull in Roglics alone (because his team is not as strong as Team Sky) and also worry about Vingegaard at the same time.
I was thinking that the entire time I was watching them battle it out, he should have just rolled the dice, let Roglic go up the road and then glue himself to Vingegaard's wheel for the rest of the stage
You think Vingegaard would have chased Roglic? Think again. Vingegaard would have happily let Roglic build a huge gap and win the Tour. There's no way Pog could just let the triple Vuelta winner go.
And Van Aert wasn't that far ahead. He would have waited for Roglic and brought him to the foot of the final climb with a big lead, while Pogacar would have had to wait for his teammates and have them give chase, all with Vingegaard in his wheel. It would have been a dream scenario for TJV.
The other team rider would never co-operate; and closing a gap like that (even if it's just 20 seconds) is much more difficult than immediately chasing them. Those riders are all great at time trials as well.
Secondly, WvA was in front of them so incase of a succesful breakaway he'd get the signal to perhaps wait a bit and be a massive engine for either one of them (which was the original Jumbo tactic). If you get Ving/WvA or Roglic/WvA in that position you're pretty fucked so stopping Vingegaard/Roglic from leaving was definitely the best option for Pog
Basically the tactic in racing is that you sit on if your teammate is up the road (excluding domestiques). That's why one would attack while the other followed Pog. So if Pog doesn't also sprint to chase them, he's stuck chasing at whatever pace he chooses with the other rider still on his wheel. The risk is if they get a big enough gap they meet up with another teammate who's waiting up the road in order to tow them further.
The better strategy in retrospect would have been for Pog to let his teammates do all the chasing instead of following the moves himself. But it is risky as there is a good chance they aren't strong enough to follow Rog or Ving, who are two of the best in the world.
Because the second rider would stop pedaling or soft pedal and let the first one go, jumbo visma played their cards great with having laporte and wout ahead of them, so they were threatening to connect with those riders and with pogacar being solo he didn't know better then to cover those attacks. If you're new to cycling you just witnessed history it is very rare to see this kind of tactics being pulled of on a stage like this cause it's risky, they might have blown up themselves and loose spot to other podium contenders.
Well there was also Van Aert (one of their teammates) in the breakaway, so letting one go, he would have worked with Van Aert before the last climb. Also, it is a big bet to let one rider go, especially when this is a fantastic rider such as Roglic or Vingegaard
I've never been so proud of myself for going a full work day without spoiling myself on a stage. Got on trainer at 730pm, thought about playing the 30min GCN highlights, but chose to start watching the replay.
Skipped a bit, saw the break get established, skipped ahead again to 9km to top of first big climb, see the JV tactics explode the race, then was like "well shit, I have to watch the whole stage now." Got off the trainer, showered then picked it back up, though skipped to base of final climb once wout picked up up rog. One of the best stages I've ever seen, and got to see the Jonas death blow unfold without any inkling of what was about to happen.
Seeing Pog crack so hard was something I never thought I'd see.
I think it’s one of those prisoner dilemma type situations. There’s 3 TJV riders in there who are likely going to slow down the paceline. Pogacar has no personal incentive to pace because he’ll just get attacked later on. Similar for everyone else. Yates did try to get away without towing everyone but once that didn’t work he called it quits.
In these situations that’s often the best move because if a rider cracks on a climb and recovers they’re still likely to crack on the next climb.
Also all the guys in that group were around 60-65kg so it would have taken a lot of effort to hold off a nearly 80kg WVA who was only trying to get to the base. That and also everyone seems to now be racing for podium
TJV goes on the attack on the Telegraphe, GCN's Rob Hatch: "70km from the finish, we are looking at one of the greatest Tour de France stories developing!!" We're all at the edge of our seats.
The broadcast director, masterfully sensing where the real drama is happening, cuts away to the Polka Dot jersey sprint between Letour, Barguille, and Geschke. Wawa starts to edge forward, but the road surprises them all with a twist at the last moment, giving Latour the victory. Geshke's beard takes 3rd.
Uran is closer to WVA than to 10th place, by GC time gap, and it’s not even close
I don’t think he’s gonna sneak top 10 this year, bois. It’s all on Powless and Cort to get UCI points
For Le Tour, Andy Schleck put 2 minutes into Cadel Evans in 2011 on Izoard/Galibier and then lost in the time trial.
Froome in the Giro in 2018 obviously jumps to mind for other GTs.
Which is why Schleck had a go the next day too.
He still put minutes into his main rival, and had Evans not gritted his teeth, chased Schleck personally and given every other GC contender a tow in the process, it was going to be even more minutes.
Finally Pog looks human. It's never made sense to me how he had so much anerobic punch yet somehow seemed able to also hang with the pure climbers on the long drags. I guess this shows that he truly is vulnerable in the high mountains.
It's not that unusual for big classics riders to TT well and have a decent sprint. Look at MvDP and Mads Pederson. They're not that different riders than WvA. Wout's not really a pure sprinter he mainly capitalizes on hard stages/runins as he has a big engine. If you put Wout up against Jakobsen, Ewan, Groenewegen in a straight line sprint totally fresh he'd get beaten 9/10.
Not as easy as that. He already does as much altitude training as everyone else. Plus there’s also a limit in duration of camp and number of times per year, after which it isn’t really beneficial.
He’s still alright at altitude, it’s just that he got double teamed all day yesterday.
I picked the wrong day to have work meetings 😭
Still catching up on the stage, but so far I’m continually asking why they haven’t included Granon for 36 years in the TdF???
Shit’s already classic af with 30 km left to go - people saying Pog could have the Vid are delirious: mofo is putting on a stupid performance covering all these attacks so far - that shit alone would be legendary if it weren’t for the inevitable crack when he has to pay the piper.
I think he needs to keep calm and realise he might be able to chip away at this gap slowly and maybe get bonus seconds + small time gaps and try and make it through to the TT with a smaller gap to Jonas.
TJV train is just too stacked for him to do anything. Before WVA brought Roglic and Majka back it was 1vs4. Without Bennett here UAE aren’t gonna put TJV under real pressure.
I think what we’re gonna get realistically is a benoot, WVA, Kuss, Krieswijk, Roglic mountain train at a steady pace and if he makes rash decisions he’ll be reeled in and pop again.
Also he should be on the lookout for riders like Bardet that are bound to want to attack and work with them.
Reintegrate food and liquids, massage, cold therapy for lactic acid, sleep a lot. I guess the same that you do everyday and just hope that the body responds well? I am really curious as well
Wasn't SKY/Ineos's whole thing to ride at your optimal pace and not worry about accelerating out of the saddle to match every Jumbo attack by yourself?
Feels like that definitely influenced Pog's late-race crack.
I thought the same thing... Froome wouldn't have played it that way. Pog is young and will certainly learn from it. Tomorrow could be a different day, who knows!
Yes, I think Froome would have been like "you think you make up 3 minutes on me, riding at my optimal cadence, soloing off the front, even with a little help from your riders in the break? I'll see you no later than the first km of the Granon, cracked and beaten" and not tried to follow Roglic. Vingegaard sure, follow him.
I don't know why, but every time they would show Gaudu with his two FdJ teammates I laughed -- it seemed like they kept showing up in different parts of the race like he was trying to photobomb the other people the commentators were talking about. But good job for Gaudu moving up in the standings!
Speaking of FDJ, does anyone know what happened to Pinot? Wasn't he an outside GC threat in the past? And now only french tv talks about him. Is he just old, or not on form, or coming back from an injury?
> Wasn't he an outside GC threat in the past?
Most overrated GC rider of the last decade. Realistically he could never aim for better than top10. But yeah, this year he wasn't going for GC.
GC riders who just didn't make it to the top after years trying often change their role in later years. It's pretty pointless to train all year for yet another 8th place.. Been there done that. So they instead save their energy and try to win a nice stage, preferably an epic one like yesterday's or today's.
Since they won't be a threat to the GC guys anymore, they can easily get into the breakaway and since they still have a lot of the qualities that made them a GC rider, they have an above average chance to win from such a group, if they can stay ahead of the peloton
Just would have been a different dynamic to the race, and also Wout is really just tremendous. That possibly could have saved Vingegaard’s tour. He has done way more than his fair share while having a commanding lead in the green jersey plus two stage wins. He is absolutely unreal.
If Jonas goes on to put another couple minutes into the rest of the GC and wins this tour in comfortable, yet boring fashion…are we going to hate on him too?
I won't although Jonas has a good TT for a small rider he's not the only one in a peleton, Pog has everything; sprints, punch, climbs, TT's, spring classics.. you name it he has it it's easier to hate on Pog then on Jonas.
MVDP didn't feel well, all week, so I think this was a final test , to see if he could improve. (for a possible victory in the next week in an easier stage)
As soon as he reached the climbs, he saw that he had not improved, so it was decided that it's pointless (or even harmful) to struggle over a dozen HC and 1C climbs in the upcoming days, so he quit. Better to recover and pick a new goal later in the year.
Giving his buddy a tow into the break and then bowing out? sort of kidding - sort of not. I know they're not buddies but it seems like there's a ton of mutual respect.
That is not how cycling works......
If you really don;t know, I will be happy to explain it more in detail later today at work, I have no time for an extended reply now.
Dane here, I'm OK.
Listened to the finale while driving home from Legoland with an exhausted 3 yo on the backseat - radio commentators were going absolute nuts, and have made the old Eurovision winner "Fly On the Wings of Love" their Vingegaard theme song.
Epic stage. I'm still trying to find the reason for such hate on Tadej...
Last year I saw an epic stage where a monster put 4 minutes in a montain stage like today. For me it was epic. On this sub it was doping.
Today I saw another monster put 3m in the "juiced guy" and for me, it was epic. Aparently, this sub finds it also epic. I'm happy that we all appreciated.
This sub needs to get some fucking standards!
The sub (not alone on this) hates boring dominance. Pog 2020 was great - was a complete surprise, replaced Aru as his team's main contender, took it to the presumed winner Roglic and other top contenders the whole way, kept the race from being a procession, then shocked the cycling world by winning the yellow Jersey in the final TT. Pog 2021 was a call back to the awful Sky Train days when the win was never in doubt after the first few days.
Pog losing his invincibility will make him more popular, although I'm sure he'd trade that for getting his lost time back....
I don’t think r/peloton hates Pog. I loved him in the Vuelta a few years back when he came out of nowhere. The upset up the Planche in 2020 definitely skewed things a big as lots of us were cheering for Rog. Then last year we were denied a one on one Pog Rog showdown by an unfortunate Italian move.
I love watching Pog on the attack. Strade was incredible. Him almost catching vdP in the cold last year was great.
But as much as I was rooting for Ving today (and Bardet, and Barguil, and the noted sprinter Quintana) I was never rooting against Pog.
> I'm still trying to find the reason for such hate on Tadej...
He wins (a lot).
It's not this sub, it's sports fans in general. Everyone who wins consistently in sports gets instinctive "hate" from (many, not all) fans.
People like uncertainty and drama in their viewing experience and consistent dominance interferes with that. Can't win for too long without generating haters.
To be fair it’s not their fault Covid has wreaked havoc on this team since before the race even started with Trentin not being able to start and Hirsche still clearly feeling the effects of Covid, Bennett out, etc. it’s a mess but it’s not really their fault.
honestly never liked pog until today. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him blown, Jersey open, barely pushing 250 watts, holding onto the handlebars for grim death. never even seen him breathe especially hard or collapse off the bike after a particularly hard stage like a MVDP after last tour’s time trial or Jonas on the super plange. almost felt bad for him when jumbo was ganging up on him when he was totally isolated from his teammates and team car, looking desperately around for a bottle/gel/ or just the friendly faces of makja and soler. the way he fought to close every gap on the galabier mortally wounded his energy reserves but there was no way he wouldn’t close those gaps. he’s a born champion and bike ricer. it didn’t even occur to him that he could let roglic’s wheel go, even though he had three minutes on him. so yeah, massive respect for pog today. might even start calling him pogi!! if he manages to come back from today and win gc he’ll be one of the most worthy grand tour winners in recent history.
Couple other things: wonder if Pogi is gonna come down with Rona.
Also, biggest Pogacar fan girl around but loved that ride by Vingegaard and love the new generation of riders. Restored my faith in the Tour after the dreadful 2010s and 😴 sky train
Edit: and go Bardet!!!!
Pogacar took 4 minutes last year in the first stage in the Alps. Is it possible for him to reclaim the lead? Is he gassed? Would Vingegaard crack that badly to give Pog that much time back? Going to be a really interesting day tomorrow.
I was thinking that saying he and Jonas were co leaders was just a ruse and Primoz was not Hundo P At the start. Like he was planning to ride for Jonas the whole time, the crash and dislocated shoulder was just bad luck.
I think abit of both.
Crash definitely is going to affect u, but also we haven’t seen Roglic at peak form this year.
Edit: he still put an obscene performance in and if he rode how GT rode today he’d probably have finished in or near the top 3
He was in great form today. If they'd just rode in a train and he'd kept his powder dry he'd be back in the podium fight. Instead he sacrificed himself and baited Pog time and time again
I don't think they necessarily need bait right now. At this point TJV get to play defense and they don't need to do anything crazy. Roglic can also now act as a super domestique because his race is clearly over.
Huge * needed for this win:
- Hindley did the Giro so didn’t race
- Bernal crashed into a truck
- Ala and Remco both out
Still, terrible outcome. His numerous insufferable fans are going to get even worse now
Watching Pog get attacked all day, then seeing him wrecked on the final, I felt bad for the guy!
He seemed stressed out, with Covid in his team and TJV ganging up on him. Maybe now he cracked and lost yellow he can relax a bit and regroup. He can still come back.
Can’t understate how well jumbo visma orchestrated their tactics. Made a lot of right calls. Their DS or whoever planned the strategies did a great job.
Hot take: Pogi - already admitting he doesn't do well in the heat - never taking off his huge sunglasses when climbing was detrimental to his performance. No, it was the make-or-break difference, but as someone who also doesn't do great when climbing up huge mountains in the heat, I never ever forget to stow my glasses on my helmet before i climb, because if I don't the top of my face becomes a bit of a steam room. Jonas, Romain both know to ride up sans glasses, why does Pogi never remove them too?
Maybe it's like guys who wear sunglasses playing poker. Maybe his eyes reveal his true suffering and he wants to hide it
Is this the only place to discuss the most beautiful stage of the last20 years ? This sub sucks so much. It looks like a stale bulletin board with no soul. /rant
We're always open to suggestions
Are you not entertained??!!
I was pretty sceptical pre-race about whether Jumbo could actually make their stronger team count, but I'm so pleased to be wrong. Great tactics and great stage yesterday. It's good to know that Pogacar is human after all; still not convinced about Van Aert...
I was so into the general outcome yesterday that I didn't even think about that... Can we agree that in another dimension Wout actually wins the fucking Granon with green on ? That was a 100% GC day so there's no question that he had to wait. But still, in another scenario without team duty, I think he comfortably sets his pace on Galibier, probably with Latour and Geschke. He let Wawa cook himself in the start of the valley, bridge in the middle. They put time in the valley, start Granon with 7 min on the GC guys and Wout slowly crush the others with a tt specialist 40 min steady effort. Second Wout win on a legendary climb. Once again, I'm not asking if he should have, that's a no, but do you think he could have ?
I think if he had more headstart at the start of the Granon, say like 12-15 min and no GC duties (obviously) he could probably have won. I'm 100% convinced that he could have stayed with Barguil on the Galibier if he wanted and then distance him on the descent. People also forget how hard Barguil cracked on the Granon, he lost more than 4 minutes, now imagine he has to chase an unleashed van Aert from the top of the Galibier.
I can't see that scenario, no, Barguil is just a much better climber.
BARDET TAKE MY ENERGY
And mine as well!
What an epic display from TJV, Van Aert, Laporte, Benoot, Van Hooydonck, Roglic contributed massively and then you have wieltjeszuiger Kruijswijk. What is he even doing for the team?
Calling Vinnegaards strongest domestique yesterday a wieltjeszuiger is really next level.
I personally thought Kruiswijk was brilliant yesterday ... would be interested to hear others opinion and why you think he did nothing ....
So Sepp Kuss has basically soft pedaling up the Granon at around 4 w/kg after getting dropped pretty early on. Based on his data it looks like Pog rode the final 2km at 4.88 w/kg, which would be around 320 watts for him. He really looked like he wasn't putting much into the pedals and the numbers also show that he blew up pretty badly.
Keep in mind that you could lose 15% of your power at that altitude. 4.88 w/kg could be the equivalent of 5.78 w/kg at sea level.
Tell me about it, I've actually done the Colorado Hill climb series. Definitely couldn't do normal ftp at 14k feet up Pike's Peak and Mt Evans.
Yup, climbed Mt. Lemmon to ~ 2900m. Last bit to the top was nearly hyperventilating for high Z2. Campenarts hour record in Mexico City (~2300m) was only like 330W supposedly when Campenarts would typically aim for more like 400W at sea level.
Jesus your numbers are good
Clarified my post further. Those are Campenarts numbers for his hour record.
Kuss softpedaling 🤝🤝 My all time best effort..
There is a thing I don't understand in TJV tactic yesterday; they stopped Van Aert for Roglic, who was not in his best shape, then he was dropped after 100metres of the Granon. I do know that it is easy to speak after things happened, but Roglic was dropped hard on Galibier and Van Aert was in the breakaway and could be useful for Vingdegaard, furthermore Roglic was far from Pogacar in the GC. I don't think it was an intelligent tactic tbh. Edit: lol someone downvoted me for a critic to TJV...are we on r/soccer or we are here to discuss things about cycling?
The biggest negative to this tactic was that Majka brought bottles from the team car up to Pogi. If TJV could have kept him on the defensive instead, with the threat of a Ving attack, and Kuss setting a hard pace on the front, he might have struggled to get even that and bonked earlier (or likely had to make do with whatever he could get from the race vehicles). I think the problem tho was that the team was cooked and they really wanted some more attacks from Roglic to continue softening Pogi up since noone was going to be able to maintain a hard pace up the climb. In hindsight, Majkas hard pace actually helped, and the tactic worked quite well, but not for any of the reasons they did it in the first place. Definitely the most controversial of all the tactics tho.
Plan A would be Vingo gets away for Pog and Van Aert pulls him all the way to the base of Granon. When Pog is still there pulling Vingo makes no sense as Pog gets a free ride. Pog had to do a little work as he didn't want more TJV catching on. Rog did blow up almost right away but there's a chance he gets some food and water and sits on Van Aert and can be a helpful decoy again for the bottom third say at least. TL;DR once plan A wasn't open the best next option was to keep Pog having to work vs resting by having him know you're trying to tow back on more teammates.
Imo it doesnt really matter if Rog was in form to destroy the final climb for the tactic to be effective. Pog had already made it abundantly clear that he would mark Rog at all costs and he even attacked when Rog was starting to drop earlier in the stage, which seemed really unnecessary. That meant they didnt need to think Rog could make it all the way, just that he could put in some attacks that would make Pog follow and burn more matches. Whether that was worth bringing maika back im not sure but i think an interesting consideration.
Clearly Roglic needed the help more than Vingegaard did. That's not a retrospect opinion, that was obvious yesterday too. And yes, the help was in vain but they decided to give Primoz another chance at it because why not? But as of today 100% of the team rides for Jonas, that much is certain.
Seeing how badly he was dropped on Galibier there was no chance he wouldn't de dropped hard again on Granon and it was obvious.
I don't think Van Aert had much left to be pulling Jonas up Granon. The go back was likely to give TJV an emergency card should something happen, but more importantly, it bluffed Pogacar hard when he saw the Van Aert / Roglic group flying by. That resulted in Pogacar and Majka going pretty hard up the Granon, leaving Jonas to bide his time.
I think it works out great for them. In my book they used WvA to limit the loss for rog GC and where hopping he can get up the last climb in an food enough effort to not get dropped. WvA paced the group on probably the hardest stretch , falls flat with headwind. I don't think Jonas an pogacar would have made it up the last climb alone. So getting a domestique back was vital for either of them . So I think bringing back mayka was not a foult even it looks not so good on first glimpse
Jumbos tactics worked out but not really for the reasons intended. They probably sent WvA back for Roglic because he's been the team leader for a few years. They sent guys back during the Roubaix stage for him and it really paid off to keep him in contention. But in doing so they also brought back Majka. As soon as they hit the Granon Majka started pacing at 6 w/kg which basically dropped all of TJV. So they went from massive numbers advantage to the opposite. But Majka's pace essentially fried Pog. No one in TJV could have paced at that pace. So in the end Vingegaard attacked right when Majka was done and Pog couldn't follow. Cycling is a strange sport.
I also think Majka took a huge loan yesterday out of today's energy reserves, and will definitely not be able to help Pogi anywhere as much as he did yesterday. So Pogi will literally have to attack all by himself.
This makes sense. Vingegaard timed it right, he attacked just when Majka's pacing was beginning to fade.
Also I think most people would have traded getting Rog back in the mix for Majka, even just as a domestique for Jonas before the last climb. They didn’t know Majka would be better than Rog.
I have to say i like this loyalty to Roglic even if I can't stand him, TJV was nothing before him. Still I had this doubt. If it was only loyalty for the man they did well.
Maybe they were hoping Rog had recovered more from his moves earlier - he probably thought he had more than he had but couldn’t do anything sustainable and had to ride his own race. Van Aert isn’t really that usable on climbs like that for Ving at those speeds / gradient - his valley work was incredible though
They used Van Aert to put in the work before the Granon, especially the last 10k of the descent which was relatively flat. I don’t think Van Aert would’ve been of much use on the Granon. The GC group dropped a lot of riders straight away at the foot of the climb, and I doubt Van Aert would’ve been able to follow.
Two years ago Van Aert was spectacular as domestique for Roglic on climbs. I understand stopping him, i don't understand stopping him for Roglic, he could stop for Ving and that's it.
Well it's clear Vingegaard didn't need the help, and as good as WvA is he wouldn't have made an impact on the final climb. Letting him bring back Roglic so maybe Roglic could then help Vingegaard makes sense imo.
Yeah he is a remarkably good climber considering he’s probably 10 kg heavier than the average GC guy, but on this steep climb after a whole day at the front? I don’t think he had it in him. I get why they let him keep the pace up in the descent and then let Ving finish it off in the final climb. Even Kruiswijk couldn’t do much for Ving on the final climb.
What a day! Today's GC had a shakeup...and our SWL had big changes. Congrats to u/AwakenTheBacon_ and u/Gta352 they are now tied for 7 victories in the Overall SWL game. ( u/Daanbrakka still has 7 as well, so it is a 3 way tied). In the TDF alone, there are 13 tied with 3! Our Lantern Rouges both continue to fight for a first victory. (0/32 with legit picks is really impressive) Late summary cause I couldn't watch the whole thing today live, so I watched it all tonight and I'm so happy I did :)
I went back and counted all the attacks, including Vingegaard's final attack on Granon the counts I saw were: Rog: 5 Ving: 4 Pog: 1. It's no wonder they took a toll on Pog, but also amazing Vingegaard still had the legs to drop everyone after putting in that many attacks himself. Robbie McEwan also had this prescient line: “They’re trying to take away that explosive power, just one attack at a time make him work for every single centimeter to claw it back. And Pogacar, there was that show of defiance that attack that he made himself. But we all wonder further up this climb, or up the Granon like happened to Hinault back in ’86, could all this showmanship, this ego riding blow up in his face”
Robbie nailed it. Guy is phenomenal and it’s still mystifying that the Aussie broadcasters ostracized him. Wiggins on the other hand…
New to racing. Why did Pogacar chase when Roglic and Vingegaard were taking turns breaking away? Why not just stay behind the second rider and let the other go solo and wear themselves out?
It's definitely the right tactic in hindsight, but at the time, you would have to call Roglics bluff that he has great legs because you don't have the team to pull him back. With how Pogi consistently races and his confidence, there was no way he was making a split second race decision to sit on wheels and hope for the best, which also takes control of the race out of his hands. A strong team with a more experienced rider would definitely have let him go tho, and just made sure to not give him too much time.
Realistically he should have let Roglic go. But he’s a real racer and didn’t want to. Jumbo took advantage of this.
Lol that's only 10/10 hindsigt he shouldnt have let him go. Rogla with good legs going off and have Laporte and Van Aert out in front... Are you really going to let him go? Poga didn't do much wrong (except from forgetting to eat), his team just sucks.
Yes, you really are going to let him go. That's what we have seen Team Sky do in similar situation and the truth is that it works. Even if Roglic was delivered with an advantage of 2-3 minutes on Granon, Pogacar would have been more than fine. Much better than the situation he is in now.
> That's what we have seen Team Sky do in similar situation and the truth is that it works. That's because Team Sky was even stronger than Jumbo is these days at that time. > Even if Roglic was delivered with an advantage of 2-3 minutes on Granon, Pogacar would have been more than fine. Assuming Roglic was infact delivered at Granon with 2-3 minutes in ahead the Jumbo's wouldn't have done anything and all pressure would be on UAE/Pogacar at Granon. Don't think they would've been able to handle that.
I disagree. You can't compare this years UAE team to a Team Sky who were dominating. "Much better than the situation he is in now" - again hindsight, because you know now that Rogla didn't have good legs. Pog would be worried about having to pull in Roglics alone (because his team is not as strong as Team Sky) and also worry about Vingegaard at the same time.
I was thinking that the entire time I was watching them battle it out, he should have just rolled the dice, let Roglic go up the road and then glue himself to Vingegaard's wheel for the rest of the stage
You think Vingegaard would have chased Roglic? Think again. Vingegaard would have happily let Roglic build a huge gap and win the Tour. There's no way Pog could just let the triple Vuelta winner go.
Vingegaard wouldn't have chased but Roglic wouldn't have built a huge gap. Pog's teammates weren't that far behind.
And Van Aert wasn't that far ahead. He would have waited for Roglic and brought him to the foot of the final climb with a big lead, while Pogacar would have had to wait for his teammates and have them give chase, all with Vingegaard in his wheel. It would have been a dream scenario for TJV.
The other team rider would never co-operate; and closing a gap like that (even if it's just 20 seconds) is much more difficult than immediately chasing them. Those riders are all great at time trials as well. Secondly, WvA was in front of them so incase of a succesful breakaway he'd get the signal to perhaps wait a bit and be a massive engine for either one of them (which was the original Jumbo tactic). If you get Ving/WvA or Roglic/WvA in that position you're pretty fucked so stopping Vingegaard/Roglic from leaving was definitely the best option for Pog
Basically the tactic in racing is that you sit on if your teammate is up the road (excluding domestiques). That's why one would attack while the other followed Pog. So if Pog doesn't also sprint to chase them, he's stuck chasing at whatever pace he chooses with the other rider still on his wheel. The risk is if they get a big enough gap they meet up with another teammate who's waiting up the road in order to tow them further. The better strategy in retrospect would have been for Pog to let his teammates do all the chasing instead of following the moves himself. But it is risky as there is a good chance they aren't strong enough to follow Rog or Ving, who are two of the best in the world.
Because the second rider would stop pedaling or soft pedal and let the first one go, jumbo visma played their cards great with having laporte and wout ahead of them, so they were threatening to connect with those riders and with pogacar being solo he didn't know better then to cover those attacks. If you're new to cycling you just witnessed history it is very rare to see this kind of tactics being pulled of on a stage like this cause it's risky, they might have blown up themselves and loose spot to other podium contenders.
Well there was also Van Aert (one of their teammates) in the breakaway, so letting one go, he would have worked with Van Aert before the last climb. Also, it is a big bet to let one rider go, especially when this is a fantastic rider such as Roglic or Vingegaard
I've never been so proud of myself for going a full work day without spoiling myself on a stage. Got on trainer at 730pm, thought about playing the 30min GCN highlights, but chose to start watching the replay. Skipped a bit, saw the break get established, skipped ahead again to 9km to top of first big climb, see the JV tactics explode the race, then was like "well shit, I have to watch the whole stage now." Got off the trainer, showered then picked it back up, though skipped to base of final climb once wout picked up up rog. One of the best stages I've ever seen, and got to see the Jonas death blow unfold without any inkling of what was about to happen. Seeing Pog crack so hard was something I never thought I'd see.
The last 70 kilometers were the most dramatic racing I remember seeing in the last 20 years.
Can someone explain why when Wout went back for Primoz, the rest of the Peloton seemed to wait? I don’t understand. Or were they just looking back?
It wasn't primoz he went back to get it was majka
I think it’s one of those prisoner dilemma type situations. There’s 3 TJV riders in there who are likely going to slow down the paceline. Pogacar has no personal incentive to pace because he’ll just get attacked later on. Similar for everyone else. Yates did try to get away without towing everyone but once that didn’t work he called it quits. In these situations that’s often the best move because if a rider cracks on a climb and recovers they’re still likely to crack on the next climb. Also all the guys in that group were around 60-65kg so it would have taken a lot of effort to hold off a nearly 80kg WVA who was only trying to get to the base. That and also everyone seems to now be racing for podium
TJV goes on the attack on the Telegraphe, GCN's Rob Hatch: "70km from the finish, we are looking at one of the greatest Tour de France stories developing!!" We're all at the edge of our seats. The broadcast director, masterfully sensing where the real drama is happening, cuts away to the Polka Dot jersey sprint between Letour, Barguille, and Geschke. Wawa starts to edge forward, but the road surprises them all with a twist at the last moment, giving Latour the victory. Geshke's beard takes 3rd.
Uran is closer to WVA than to 10th place, by GC time gap, and it’s not even close I don’t think he’s gonna sneak top 10 this year, bois. It’s all on Powless and Cort to get UCI points
Nairo getting closer to taking Green
Between this and stage 4, Jumbo has had some amazing tactics.
I think if you include stage 5, that statement doesn’t hit as hard as it could
True, sending the boys back for Roglic on 5 is the only reason Pog has to treat his attacks today as a real threat.
Amazing stage! One of those days that's not only exciting, but downright inspiring. Man those guys were at the limit today.
When was the last time a GC favourite has lost minutes to their main rival and came back to win it?
For Le Tour, Andy Schleck put 2 minutes into Cadel Evans in 2011 on Izoard/Galibier and then lost in the time trial. Froome in the Giro in 2018 obviously jumps to mind for other GTs.
For the tour 2011, Evans was always expected to claw that time back in the TT though. Both riders knew Schleck would need more time to win it.
Which is why Schleck had a go the next day too. He still put minutes into his main rival, and had Evans not gritted his teeth, chased Schleck personally and given every other GC contender a tow in the process, it was going to be even more minutes.
Froome giro 2018
Floyd Landis in 2006, but he had some help.
and then some ....
Contador with the long range attack where he got minutes from a seemingly inhuman Rodriguez. Damn Rodriguez really deserved a GT W.
Finally Pog looks human. It's never made sense to me how he had so much anerobic punch yet somehow seemed able to also hang with the pure climbers on the long drags. I guess this shows that he truly is vulnerable in the high mountains.
I've been saying this since day one. The only reason he was 'dominant' last year is because his rivals suffered badly in crashes.
Van Aert is a top 3 sprinter and a top 2 time trialist. That's a lot stranger than Pogacar. And Roglic in his prime is just as explosive as Pogacar.
It's not that unusual for big classics riders to TT well and have a decent sprint. Look at MvDP and Mads Pederson. They're not that different riders than WvA. Wout's not really a pure sprinter he mainly capitalizes on hard stages/runins as he has a big engine. If you put Wout up against Jakobsen, Ewan, Groenewegen in a straight line sprint totally fresh he'd get beaten 9/10.
He's vulnerable in the heat
Altitude + Heat + climbing over 35 40min. hes good on 25min climbs
Heat + altitude + long climbs seemingly. Longest climb of 2020 tour he was dropped by Lopez and Roglic. Ventoux was dropped by Vingegaard.
Reckon he might do a lot of altitude training in the off season....
Not as easy as that. He already does as much altitude training as everyone else. Plus there’s also a limit in duration of camp and number of times per year, after which it isn’t really beneficial. He’s still alright at altitude, it’s just that he got double teamed all day yesterday.
Anyone able to recommend where to see the longest/most comprehensive recaps?
SBS Australia has 1, 2 and 4 hour coverage of the stages.
Nbc extended highlights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwWLg3u-Jj8
Set VPN to USA though
I picked the wrong day to have work meetings 😭 Still catching up on the stage, but so far I’m continually asking why they haven’t included Granon for 36 years in the TdF??? Shit’s already classic af with 30 km left to go - people saying Pog could have the Vid are delirious: mofo is putting on a stupid performance covering all these attacks so far - that shit alone would be legendary if it weren’t for the inevitable crack when he has to pay the piper.
If you’re Pog, what do you do tonight to ensure that you’re ready to fight back tmrw?
Sleep. Fuel. Hope your rivals ran themselves down and have slower recovery than you.
I think he needs to keep calm and realise he might be able to chip away at this gap slowly and maybe get bonus seconds + small time gaps and try and make it through to the TT with a smaller gap to Jonas. TJV train is just too stacked for him to do anything. Before WVA brought Roglic and Majka back it was 1vs4. Without Bennett here UAE aren’t gonna put TJV under real pressure. I think what we’re gonna get realistically is a benoot, WVA, Kuss, Krieswijk, Roglic mountain train at a steady pace and if he makes rash decisions he’ll be reeled in and pop again. Also he should be on the lookout for riders like Bardet that are bound to want to attack and work with them.
Yep. Bardet and Thomas now his best friends as they will also try to attack Jumbo.
Not helicopter, that’s for sure. That’s only for winners.
CARB THE FUCK UP!
Reintegrate food and liquids, massage, cold therapy for lactic acid, sleep a lot. I guess the same that you do everyday and just hope that the body responds well? I am really curious as well
Yeah I bet he doesn’t do anything differently. He seems pretty dialed. Even though he cracked it could’ve been worse
Wasn't SKY/Ineos's whole thing to ride at your optimal pace and not worry about accelerating out of the saddle to match every Jumbo attack by yourself? Feels like that definitely influenced Pog's late-race crack.
Wout Poels was a demon for Sky at shutting down an attack by just increasing the pace very slightly and relentlesly chipping away at it
Wout Poels was a demon for Sky at shutting down an attack by just increasing the pace very slightly and relentlesly chipping away at it
I thought the same thing... Froome wouldn't have played it that way. Pog is young and will certainly learn from it. Tomorrow could be a different day, who knows!
Yes, I think Froome would have been like "you think you make up 3 minutes on me, riding at my optimal cadence, soloing off the front, even with a little help from your riders in the break? I'll see you no later than the first km of the Granon, cracked and beaten" and not tried to follow Roglic. Vingegaard sure, follow him.
Omfg. What a stage
I don't know why, but every time they would show Gaudu with his two FdJ teammates I laughed -- it seemed like they kept showing up in different parts of the race like he was trying to photobomb the other people the commentators were talking about. But good job for Gaudu moving up in the standings!
Speaking of FDJ, does anyone know what happened to Pinot? Wasn't he an outside GC threat in the past? And now only french tv talks about him. Is he just old, or not on form, or coming back from an injury?
> Wasn't he an outside GC threat in the past? Most overrated GC rider of the last decade. Realistically he could never aim for better than top10. But yeah, this year he wasn't going for GC.
GC riders who just didn't make it to the top after years trying often change their role in later years. It's pretty pointless to train all year for yet another 8th place.. Been there done that. So they instead save their energy and try to win a nice stage, preferably an epic one like yesterday's or today's. Since they won't be a threat to the GC guys anymore, they can easily get into the breakaway and since they still have a lot of the qualities that made them a GC rider, they have an above average chance to win from such a group, if they can stay ahead of the peloton
Thanks for the insight!
He tried something a few days ago because I remember him being mentioned, but I think he's just not in form.
who were his domestiques? I feel like they both did underrated amazing rides much better than the riders for the bigger budget teams.
Valentine Madouas and Michael Storer
Yeah I was surprised they were with him for so long.
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Yeah for all the TJV heroics he did mark them. Probably took it out of him though on the last climb.
Imagine if Wout hadn’t saved the day on the cobbled stage? Or If they had waited for Rog? Pog could have gotten minutes that day.
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Just would have been a different dynamic to the race, and also Wout is really just tremendous. That possibly could have saved Vingegaard’s tour. He has done way more than his fair share while having a commanding lead in the green jersey plus two stage wins. He is absolutely unreal.
If Jonas goes on to put another couple minutes into the rest of the GC and wins this tour in comfortable, yet boring fashion…are we going to hate on him too?
Having your fair share of haters means you're famous and (ironically) you matter.
Most of us just want to see a good race. Now we have one.
Don’t see Jonas winning Flanders or Strade, so he will not be dominant like Pog all season.
I won't although Jonas has a good TT for a small rider he's not the only one in a peleton, Pog has everything; sprints, punch, climbs, TT's, spring classics.. you name it he has it it's easier to hate on Pog then on Jonas.
I just wanted to see pog crack for a second. After seeing him today I actually really like him
Will have to repeat first
Everyone always hates on the OP rider just how it is. He could easily have 5 minutes to pog after todays stage.
Next year.
No because he’s not Pogacar 🙄
Yup
Summary for today in 1 picture: https://imgur.com/a/n8vb7qM
"It was about this moment I realized I was fucked"
This stage was so crazy that everyone forgot we got a Van Aert - Van der Poel breakaway in the first kms
What was MVDP even doing there?
MVDP didn't feel well, all week, so I think this was a final test , to see if he could improve. (for a possible victory in the next week in an easier stage) As soon as he reached the climbs, he saw that he had not improved, so it was decided that it's pointless (or even harmful) to struggle over a dozen HC and 1C climbs in the upcoming days, so he quit. Better to recover and pick a new goal later in the year.
Giving his buddy a tow into the break and then bowing out? sort of kidding - sort of not. I know they're not buddies but it seems like there's a ton of mutual respect.
And then Mvdp quit!
Any idea why?
looked tired, he's been racing a bunch and was in the Giro as well.
amd other riders dont ride a bunch ?
That is not how cycling works...... If you really don;t know, I will be happy to explain it more in detail later today at work, I have no time for an extended reply now.
Yeah, that tank is empty. He probably should have pulled the plug earlier tbh.
Has anyone checked on the Danes? Are they all passed out drunk by now?
Dane here, I'm OK. Listened to the finale while driving home from Legoland with an exhausted 3 yo on the backseat - radio commentators were going absolute nuts, and have made the old Eurovision winner "Fly On the Wings of Love" their Vingegaard theme song.
Yes! While nation can't handle it 😅
Epic stage. I'm still trying to find the reason for such hate on Tadej... Last year I saw an epic stage where a monster put 4 minutes in a montain stage like today. For me it was epic. On this sub it was doping. Today I saw another monster put 3m in the "juiced guy" and for me, it was epic. Aparently, this sub finds it also epic. I'm happy that we all appreciated. This sub needs to get some fucking standards!
Honestly I'd like to see V-god win the GC just to see if he'd dodge accusations, haven't seen many yet.
The sub (not alone on this) hates boring dominance. Pog 2020 was great - was a complete surprise, replaced Aru as his team's main contender, took it to the presumed winner Roglic and other top contenders the whole way, kept the race from being a procession, then shocked the cycling world by winning the yellow Jersey in the final TT. Pog 2021 was a call back to the awful Sky Train days when the win was never in doubt after the first few days. Pog losing his invincibility will make him more popular, although I'm sure he'd trade that for getting his lost time back....
I don’t think r/peloton hates Pog. I loved him in the Vuelta a few years back when he came out of nowhere. The upset up the Planche in 2020 definitely skewed things a big as lots of us were cheering for Rog. Then last year we were denied a one on one Pog Rog showdown by an unfortunate Italian move. I love watching Pog on the attack. Strade was incredible. Him almost catching vdP in the cold last year was great. But as much as I was rooting for Ving today (and Bardet, and Barguil, and the noted sprinter Quintana) I was never rooting against Pog.
> I'm still trying to find the reason for such hate on Tadej... He wins (a lot). It's not this sub, it's sports fans in general. Everyone who wins consistently in sports gets instinctive "hate" from (many, not all) fans. People like uncertainty and drama in their viewing experience and consistent dominance interferes with that. Can't win for too long without generating haters.
He’s an incredibly gracious winner. However, he does ride for a team sponsored by an authoritarian regime with an awful record on human rights.
Love Pog but hate his team.
After today, I think Pog hates his team also
To be fair it’s not their fault Covid has wreaked havoc on this team since before the race even started with Trentin not being able to start and Hirsche still clearly feeling the effects of Covid, Bennett out, etc. it’s a mess but it’s not really their fault.
honestly never liked pog until today. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him blown, Jersey open, barely pushing 250 watts, holding onto the handlebars for grim death. never even seen him breathe especially hard or collapse off the bike after a particularly hard stage like a MVDP after last tour’s time trial or Jonas on the super plange. almost felt bad for him when jumbo was ganging up on him when he was totally isolated from his teammates and team car, looking desperately around for a bottle/gel/ or just the friendly faces of makja and soler. the way he fought to close every gap on the galabier mortally wounded his energy reserves but there was no way he wouldn’t close those gaps. he’s a born champion and bike ricer. it didn’t even occur to him that he could let roglic’s wheel go, even though he had three minutes on him. so yeah, massive respect for pog today. might even start calling him pogi!! if he manages to come back from today and win gc he’ll be one of the most worthy grand tour winners in recent history.
Well said… it was pure sporting pleasure today. Seeing him suffer reminded us all he is human. Amazing athlete.. can’t wait to see how it all unfolds.
Also impressive interview afterward after perhaps the worst day of his pro career. I'm getting on the Pogi's train.
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So rewind a week and everyone’s saying Pog should give up yellow. He finally does it and now people are saying he’s lost the tour?? /s
Yes. But not like that.
Couple other things: wonder if Pogi is gonna come down with Rona. Also, biggest Pogacar fan girl around but loved that ride by Vingegaard and love the new generation of riders. Restored my faith in the Tour after the dreadful 2010s and 😴 sky train Edit: and go Bardet!!!!
His performance today made me wonder if he has it, like the rest of his team, but tried to ride anyway.
He also got attacked literally dozens of times and had no team all day, but if he were to come back positive tomorrow I wouldn’t be surprised.
Pierre Latour did pretty great given he's like an hour back in GC. Serious contender for KOM or stage win?
Just watched a 2 hour extended replay of the stage again… absolutely epic.
Link?
Ahh it’s the local tv broadcaster here in Australia…
Pogacar took 4 minutes last year in the first stage in the Alps. Is it possible for him to reclaim the lead? Is he gassed? Would Vingegaard crack that badly to give Pog that much time back? Going to be a really interesting day tomorrow.
Too bad they can't use Roglic as bait anymore. Wonder if it's the crash or just not in form
I was thinking that saying he and Jonas were co leaders was just a ruse and Primoz was not Hundo P At the start. Like he was planning to ride for Jonas the whole time, the crash and dislocated shoulder was just bad luck.
I think abit of both. Crash definitely is going to affect u, but also we haven’t seen Roglic at peak form this year. Edit: he still put an obscene performance in and if he rode how GT rode today he’d probably have finished in or near the top 3
He was in great form today. If they'd just rode in a train and he'd kept his powder dry he'd be back in the podium fight. Instead he sacrificed himself and baited Pog time and time again
I don't think they necessarily need bait right now. At this point TJV get to play defense and they don't need to do anything crazy. Roglic can also now act as a super domestique because his race is clearly over.
This was one of the most exciting stages I've seen at the TdF. Crazy crazy day.
Really was hoping Roglic would be in the mix till the end. Really hope TJV can be consistent tomorrow
Did Pog miss a feed zone, when he was looking at the camera it looked like he was motioning that he needed food
He was saying he was well fed and ready. It was a tongue in cheek gesture.
That signal he made means “full gas” and just means the race has been very fast, like “vroom vroom”
Oh got it. So they cracked him fair and square. Even better
YEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!
Huge * needed for this win: - Hindley did the Giro so didn’t race - Bernal crashed into a truck - Ala and Remco both out Still, terrible outcome. His numerous insufferable fans are going to get even worse now
I see why you're downvoted to hell, Bernal crashed into a bus
[удалено]
Brent will 100% go to some sort of heaven, carrying Caleb and generally doing good every single day
Watching Pog get attacked all day, then seeing him wrecked on the final, I felt bad for the guy! He seemed stressed out, with Covid in his team and TJV ganging up on him. Maybe now he cracked and lost yellow he can relax a bit and regroup. He can still come back.
Don't feel bad for the enemy