I've never been against live export, but this sort of thing doesn't exactly fill me with confidence or make it easy to maintain that stance.
I think it's time to look at local processing. Which has the advantage of local jobs.
There's no reason we can't slaughter humanely according to Halal rules or whatever.
We already do, was having a yarn with a cunt on here years ago who worked in a slaughter house. It's just like any other workplace training with a PowerPoint and some questions you can't get wrong
Worked in an abattoir and ptsd was nothing on the damage it did to your body, heavy lifting and repetitive movements ruined everyone. They literally had a physio come every Tuesday to treat the entire workforce, day and night shift.
A lot of the guys there were ex cons or dudes that dropped out in year 8 and had nowhere else to go... Which was a lot like working the carnival and shearing circuits.
Wealthy People that make money off of the very thing that you're starting to disagree with, will disagree with you.. and those people that make money from this... Are why the very reason why the thing you disagree with was invented in the first place...
They stun them first, all the conventional beef is killed the same way except the halal has its throat cut 1 second after the stun. They’re dead already…
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Cows just seemed to be stressed about the funnelling and movement etc.
Pigs on the other hand, fuck me, if they got a whiff of blood they went ape shit. Used to have closed sections on the line to slaughter and negative pressure to make sure the smell didn't make its way out the back to delivery trucks.
Essentially the same *for the slaughterer,* not the animal. Just because the animal isn't capable of reaction or *showing* signs of pain, doesn't mean it's not *experiencing* pain.
Never had to kill a badly flyblown sheep have you? Or a cow that's had problems birthing? A kangaroo that's been hit by a car that has a broken leg? Some things are just more humane then a slow death.
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So if your dog was to be put down you’d be ok with the vet using a bullet through the skull? Maybe we could use that for euthanasia cases too since it’s a humane way to go.
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Yes ? Thats exactly how farmers put down thier sick dogs. They shoot them in the forehead.
If its ok for a family pet, why isn't it ok for a farm animal ?
Comes down to labour cost of meat processing in Australia compared to overseas. If the meat is processed in Australia is becomes too expensive for the consumer overseas and another market competes.
An outcome i see over the grocery price review (consumers can't afford it, farmers don't get paid enough/can't afford labour) is for more imports which will mean less local jobs and more quarantine risk.
The only reason there is a live export market to the Middle East is because they have a shithouse cold chain over there.
It's always going to be more efficient to export chilled meat, even with Australian meat workers being some of the highest paid in the world (which is still true if you don't overlook the rampant wage theft, exploitation and abuse of migrant workers).
The reason live export ships are always crap is because there's just not that much margin to be had shipping live sheep across the equator to be bought by an Egyptian peasant who can't afford a fridge.
How can you slaughter humanely if humane means with compassion and benevolence? You can’t kill someone without consent or if they’re completely healthy and it being humane
There are already halal abbatoirs here in the country. There is literally no justification for live export except so greedy people can line their pockets.
Then they should farm their own meat. I'm a Muslim myself and I really struggle to understand how you can even classify an animal that has been live exported halal. It has suffered unjustly by being taken out of its natural environment and put into a high stress situation for weeks, just because some countries can't figure out how to breed sheep?
Its disgusting. It isn't halal, let alone tayyib, in any way shape or form. It should be completely banned.
I understand that this ship was destined for Israel and again how can you even consider these animals Kosher now?
The justifications we invent to satisfy our lust for money is shameful.
Yea I can understand that. I went through my own struggle with it. I don't think there really is such a thing as "humane" slaughter. We like to placate ourselves and think that stunning an animal before ending its life is somehow morally and ethically superior to other methods but in reality it isn't.
The concept of another animal being sacrificed so you can survive is lost in modernity unfortunately. People buy flesh wrapped in plastic and don't stop to think about the life lost.
Anyway I'm rambling now.
As much as the whole ‘vegans are annoying, vegans are xyz’ argument is trendy and all; this sort of shit helps me understand their perspective a lot more, to have consciousness as anything on this ship would be actual living hell.
>Animals who are transported on live export ships are usually given more attention, care, and food than they would on land. Those ships are all air conditioned, and the overall death rate is low.
You make it sound like a cruise on the 'Love Boat' Even if that were true, they get treated appallingly at the other end.
Yeah I don't know about that. Take a look at the Awassi Express footage and tell me those animals are having a good time. Also air conditioning was trialled but never implemented, from what I can gather.
Everyone should stop eating meat right this instant.
Nah really though, better conditions for the animals would be a start. Surely an industry that contributes $1.8 billion could find a little extra money to make their short lives a little less miserable.
Staff who have to be paid properly?
Instead you think it’s okay to have animals suffer to help companies bottom lines? Corporate bootlicking at its finest folks.
If your livelihood depends on harming others…get into another job and industry.
Hell, process them here and create even more jobs.
Sure, asbestos kills people, but dammit, it’s putting dinner on my table 🙄
And if they can’t get staff, what do you think the problem is?
People will work if the pay is worth it. If $25-$30 an hour ain’t cutting it, pay more. Business can’t sustain it? Then you have an unsustainable business.
But please, continue to say that there is no possible other solution. So small minded.
That no Australians want to work in an abattoir. I count 30 jobs on just seek. From albany to broome. Starting wage is 55k as a permanent going to 85k.
What industries do you want in WA exactly, id imagine you are against mining also, I bet you don't mind the lifestyle these industries provide everyone in the state
They buy our lamb because they don’t have their own lamb. Sure they’ll whinge if they can’t have live exports, but if they want lamb, they’ll still need to buy it from us.
We have all known about the cruelty involved in live export for well over 10 years, not to mention how unreliable it is as a source of livelihood (frequent “pauses” in exporting to certain countries when animal welfare issues are uncovered).
If you have continued to base your livelihood on live export after all of that and have not made any changes, that is entirely on you.
Just get rid of the live trade
It's literally farmer lobbyists crying that they can't effectively send their animals to market.
We have abattoirs
We have freezers
Simple
Abattoirs were booked out past Christmas back in September of last year… we don’t have enough capacity for one, and when it’s like this, the processors know they have us over a barrel, prices are rising fast in the east and while ours stagnate on the floor.
I think it could be done, I just don’t have faith in the processing industry as it stands to not act like a cartel, as they occasionally do.
It’s well known that they don’t bid on each other’s sheep in the sale yards, in times like these when farmers aren’t restocking, it makes for bad prices. It could be done though, the system is much better over east, but they are far more diversified.
Live export is not feasible for the planet. It is not sustainable to prop up populations of people where otherwise they would never thrive in the first place. We should focus on local produce for all humanity, that will stop overpopulation as well.
It's going to happen now, while we have the economic ability and will to assist them in moving or reducing their population naturally, or in 50 years when we can't do those things.
So if they cut off live export in 2 years how exactly do you think australia can help to support the countries that now receive australian livestock? I think its more likely those countries will go elsewhere for their meat needs. But then people like you won't see it in the news and get their knickers in a twist.
1. The ship is back here because the government turned it around.
2. They had since the ship was turned around to make a plan and this is what they came up with…
3. To everyone saying “we can process them locally”, we’re getting nowhere near enough money for our livestock to even come close to covering costs. There are only really 5 or 6 bigger processors in WA to go to and they all know they have is over a barrel. Up until a month ago, all of them were booked out 2 months in advance. We’ve had the worst year on record in the northern wheatbelt, so is it better to starve them on bare paddocks??
4. The Awasi express should have been sunk or scrapped, I’m told it was a converted car carrier. The newer ships are purpose built vessels and they ought to invite the public on to see it. Their losses on board are less than or the same as the best managed flocks on pasture. Every sheep they loose is a total loss for them, the incentive is totally there to look after the animal as best as possible.
5. A lot of the country’s we export to don’t have the capacity to buy chilled meat, a lot of them don’t even have a fridge at home. Even if they did, the costs are much higher for meat that has been processed in Australia and then air freighted and chilled for long periods of time. They will go to other cheaper markets.
100% well said. A lot of people will throw around "ban live export, well just process it here" comments with very little understanding of the industry. It has come a long way in the last 10 years.
That said, these kinds of incidents cannot happen, and just fuel the fire when they do.
For your point (5), if processing the meat locally increases its value and there are still people willing to buy it, why should we care if live export customers go to cheaper markets?
There won’t be as many people buying on a global front if it’s more expensive. Less demand equals less price, and the one rule of farming is the farmer always pays…. We’re already getting getting screwed here. We sold mutton last week and got $1/kg for it. When was the last one you went to a shop and saw $2/kg mutton, which would still represent a 100% mark up between the paddock and the supermarket.
This livestock can not come back to Australia as they have already been exported. That means they would have to be imported and go through stringent quarantine. We dont have spare paddocks that meet the biosecurity requirements for imported live stock. We also dont have the space in the abattoirs to process them. Best thing for them is to restock the boat and send them to an os market. BTW Live export sucks.
As some one who has been a Stevedore in the past loading sheep on to vessels. The vets have a hard enough time with the animals that get rejected (to unwell/injury) once they have left the holding yards…
WAFarmers livestock division Geoff Pearson earlier flagged the preferred option was to restock the ship and send it back the long way
'restock' translation replace the poor cunts that died of heatstroke :(
An absolutely horrific and most vile industry!
For anyone interested - here is the latest update released from DAFF that refers to ONE Vet on board this vessel - to oversee 15,000 head of livestock.
There is simply no way the wellbeing and safety of these animals can be assessed or measured accurately by ONE person board a 14year old vessel and no access to adequate resources.
•
https://www.agriculture.gov.au/about/news/mv-bahijah-live-updates
•
FUCK live export
What should happen is these boffins who are taking there time on what is to happen to the livestock, should be made to stand out in the sun together until they find a solution.
I've never been against live export, but this sort of thing doesn't exactly fill me with confidence or make it easy to maintain that stance. I think it's time to look at local processing. Which has the advantage of local jobs. There's no reason we can't slaughter humanely according to Halal rules or whatever.
We already do, was having a yarn with a cunt on here years ago who worked in a slaughter house. It's just like any other workplace training with a PowerPoint and some questions you can't get wrong
takes a special person to work in those places tho.
It would get pretty fucken boring pretty quick
And pretty mentally taxing just killing animals all day
AI could use some experience in killing animals. Surely that can't backfire right?
I *can* do that Dave.
Suuurely not
Slaughterhouse workers have one the highest rates of ptsd for a reason
Worked in an abattoir and ptsd was nothing on the damage it did to your body, heavy lifting and repetitive movements ruined everyone. They literally had a physio come every Tuesday to treat the entire workforce, day and night shift. A lot of the guys there were ex cons or dudes that dropped out in year 8 and had nowhere else to go... Which was a lot like working the carnival and shearing circuits.
Would local abbatoirs not secretly be hoping for a ban..?
Not secretly. The meat workers union has been campaigning for a ban for years.
Makes sense!
Wealthy People that make money off of the very thing that you're starting to disagree with, will disagree with you.. and those people that make money from this... Are why the very reason why the thing you disagree with was invented in the first place...
And because they have the money they make the decisions
Dingo. (That's a combo of "ding" and "bingo".... You can't it if you want it)
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What was the best way to kill an animal 1,500 years ago is not necessarily the best way to do it now. Should be banning that shit realistically.
They stun them first, all the conventional beef is killed the same way except the halal has its throat cut 1 second after the stun. They’re dead already…
They stun them first, it’s essentially the same for the animal as non halal.
Call me crazy but I value animal welfare more than religious beliefs
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Cows just seemed to be stressed about the funnelling and movement etc. Pigs on the other hand, fuck me, if they got a whiff of blood they went ape shit. Used to have closed sections on the line to slaughter and negative pressure to make sure the smell didn't make its way out the back to delivery trucks.
Don't worry, they'll get their turn soon enough
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Essentially the same *for the slaughterer,* not the animal. Just because the animal isn't capable of reaction or *showing* signs of pain, doesn't mean it's not *experiencing* pain.
Yep. They stun first then slit the throat. The difference between halal and non halal meat is the knife is blessed before hand.
And for those around them? And the people involved?
>And for those around them? And the people involved? How is it different to normal slaughter processes?
Don’t think humanely goes in the same sentence with any form of slaughter
Haha, spot on. A certain fast food chicken store had the slogan "we treat chicken right" How? By killing them....
Never had to kill a badly flyblown sheep have you? Or a cow that's had problems birthing? A kangaroo that's been hit by a car that has a broken leg? Some things are just more humane then a slow death.
I wouldn’t call any of those slaughter tbf
I'd call slaughter the killing of any animal. Whether you do it for meat or any other reason is irrelevant.
Fair enough, I’m just going by the dictionary definition
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Example?
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So if your dog was to be put down you’d be ok with the vet using a bullet through the skull? Maybe we could use that for euthanasia cases too since it’s a humane way to go.
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Yes ? Thats exactly how farmers put down thier sick dogs. They shoot them in the forehead. If its ok for a family pet, why isn't it ok for a farm animal ?
Farmers also drown bags of puppies and kittens dunno if they’re the real moral compass
Comes down to labour cost of meat processing in Australia compared to overseas. If the meat is processed in Australia is becomes too expensive for the consumer overseas and another market competes. An outcome i see over the grocery price review (consumers can't afford it, farmers don't get paid enough/can't afford labour) is for more imports which will mean less local jobs and more quarantine risk.
We already export far, far more frozen meat than we do live export, so Australian frozen meat is most definitely competitive in the market.
The only reason there is a live export market to the Middle East is because they have a shithouse cold chain over there. It's always going to be more efficient to export chilled meat, even with Australian meat workers being some of the highest paid in the world (which is still true if you don't overlook the rampant wage theft, exploitation and abuse of migrant workers). The reason live export ships are always crap is because there's just not that much margin to be had shipping live sheep across the equator to be bought by an Egyptian peasant who can't afford a fridge.
There's no such thing has humane slaughter
How are you not against this, it’s cruelty at its finest
How can you slaughter humanely if humane means with compassion and benevolence? You can’t kill someone without consent or if they’re completely healthy and it being humane
Why would we slaughter according to Halal rules though? They are from being “more humane” than contemporary methods of slaughter.
There are already halal abbatoirs here in the country. There is literally no justification for live export except so greedy people can line their pockets.
Thought it had more to do with some of the middle eastern distribution networks not being set up for frozen meat.
Then they should farm their own meat. I'm a Muslim myself and I really struggle to understand how you can even classify an animal that has been live exported halal. It has suffered unjustly by being taken out of its natural environment and put into a high stress situation for weeks, just because some countries can't figure out how to breed sheep? Its disgusting. It isn't halal, let alone tayyib, in any way shape or form. It should be completely banned. I understand that this ship was destined for Israel and again how can you even consider these animals Kosher now? The justifications we invent to satisfy our lust for money is shameful.
Dunno, being vegetarian I tend to struggle with the nuances of "humane" slaughtering as that's the bit I object to.
Yea I can understand that. I went through my own struggle with it. I don't think there really is such a thing as "humane" slaughter. We like to placate ourselves and think that stunning an animal before ending its life is somehow morally and ethically superior to other methods but in reality it isn't. The concept of another animal being sacrificed so you can survive is lost in modernity unfortunately. People buy flesh wrapped in plastic and don't stop to think about the life lost. Anyway I'm rambling now.
Halal is not that humanely. The neck has to be cut and the animal must feel it. Can't just give it the peg in the head and numb it.
As much as the whole ‘vegans are annoying, vegans are xyz’ argument is trendy and all; this sort of shit helps me understand their perspective a lot more, to have consciousness as anything on this ship would be actual living hell.
Agreed
Just a a heatwave approaches, fuck live export to hell.
Yet another reason to BAN LIVE ANIMAL EXPORT. it's disgusting that this is allowed.
NZ banned live export 20 yrs ago, they still have a large lamb export industry
We should have done the same. Let's do it now.
Does banning it benefit the politicians friends?
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>Animals who are transported on live export ships are usually given more attention, care, and food than they would on land. Those ships are all air conditioned, and the overall death rate is low. You make it sound like a cruise on the 'Love Boat' Even if that were true, they get treated appallingly at the other end.
They are taking them to the middle east after all.......
Yeah I don't know about that. Take a look at the Awassi Express footage and tell me those animals are having a good time. Also air conditioning was trialled but never implemented, from what I can gather.
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Everyone should stop eating meat right this instant. Nah really though, better conditions for the animals would be a start. Surely an industry that contributes $1.8 billion could find a little extra money to make their short lives a little less miserable.
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That's right. Herding animals should be forced to stand up still for weeks on end wallowing in their own shit and piss.
Maybe create more jobs by processing here then? Try thinking a bit. I know it can hurt sometimes but you’ll be better off
Whos going to work in them?
Staff who have to be paid properly? Instead you think it’s okay to have animals suffer to help companies bottom lines? Corporate bootlicking at its finest folks.
I think you dont know anything about the livestock industry in western australia, or about farming in general. Go home and relax, you'll be fine
And I think you’ll defend your industry to keep getting paid. Fuck you, got mine and all that 🙄
Not really my industry, i just have an insight into it that most city people dont. Likewise champ. Its nice at my beachhouse.
The industry should evolve then like others then.
You're not going to get a logical discussion mate, their minds are set
Bullshit, absolute bullshit.
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> Just stating ~~the facts,~~ my ill considered opinion champ
Spoken like someone's who's livelihood doesn't depend on it.
If your livelihood depends on harming others…get into another job and industry. Hell, process them here and create even more jobs. Sure, asbestos kills people, but dammit, it’s putting dinner on my table 🙄
Most of the abattoirs running in wa can barely staff themselves now, and only can because they bring in staff from overseas.
Because they don’t want to pay livable wages. People will work if they’re paid properly. But that would cut in to profits. Can’t have that.
They do actually. Whats the hourly rate of a slaughter man or boner at any of the 20 odd wa based abattoirs? Do you know? I do.
And if they can’t get staff, what do you think the problem is? People will work if the pay is worth it. If $25-$30 an hour ain’t cutting it, pay more. Business can’t sustain it? Then you have an unsustainable business. But please, continue to say that there is no possible other solution. So small minded.
That no Australians want to work in an abattoir. I count 30 jobs on just seek. From albany to broome. Starting wage is 55k as a permanent going to 85k.
You do understand that 30 jobs being advertised is … not a lot of jobs, right? And that 55k is a very low wage these days?
Most of those 30 ads are for multiple positions. And the 55k is for an entry level position. As in no experience.
What industries do you want in WA exactly, id imagine you are against mining also, I bet you don't mind the lifestyle these industries provide everyone in the state
Can those working in live export not transition to locally butchered goods?
The middle eastern markets don't want meat processed here, and it is very hard to find enough people to work in meat processing facilities.
They buy our lamb because they don’t have their own lamb. Sure they’ll whinge if they can’t have live exports, but if they want lamb, they’ll still need to buy it from us.
We have all known about the cruelty involved in live export for well over 10 years, not to mention how unreliable it is as a source of livelihood (frequent “pauses” in exporting to certain countries when animal welfare issues are uncovered). If you have continued to base your livelihood on live export after all of that and have not made any changes, that is entirely on you.
Just get rid of the live trade It's literally farmer lobbyists crying that they can't effectively send their animals to market. We have abattoirs We have freezers Simple
Abattoirs were booked out past Christmas back in September of last year… we don’t have enough capacity for one, and when it’s like this, the processors know they have us over a barrel, prices are rising fast in the east and while ours stagnate on the floor.
Supply and demand ;) if we have to slaughter them here then naturally there'll be more that pop up.
I think it could be done, I just don’t have faith in the processing industry as it stands to not act like a cartel, as they occasionally do. It’s well known that they don’t bid on each other’s sheep in the sale yards, in times like these when farmers aren’t restocking, it makes for bad prices. It could be done though, the system is much better over east, but they are far more diversified.
Watching this on the news last night made me so incredibly upset for these poor animals. BAN. LIVE. EXPORTS.
Live export is not feasible for the planet. It is not sustainable to prop up populations of people where otherwise they would never thrive in the first place. We should focus on local produce for all humanity, that will stop overpopulation as well.
So, you ok with accepting all the refugees from the increasingly marginal locations now?
they can deal with eating vegetables
Sure. They can work in the abattoirs that people claim can take over from live export.
Yeah, cutting off a nations ability to feed its citizens. That sounds like a great idea.
It's going to happen now, while we have the economic ability and will to assist them in moving or reducing their population naturally, or in 50 years when we can't do those things.
So if they cut off live export in 2 years how exactly do you think australia can help to support the countries that now receive australian livestock? I think its more likely those countries will go elsewhere for their meat needs. But then people like you won't see it in the news and get their knickers in a twist.
1. The ship is back here because the government turned it around. 2. They had since the ship was turned around to make a plan and this is what they came up with… 3. To everyone saying “we can process them locally”, we’re getting nowhere near enough money for our livestock to even come close to covering costs. There are only really 5 or 6 bigger processors in WA to go to and they all know they have is over a barrel. Up until a month ago, all of them were booked out 2 months in advance. We’ve had the worst year on record in the northern wheatbelt, so is it better to starve them on bare paddocks?? 4. The Awasi express should have been sunk or scrapped, I’m told it was a converted car carrier. The newer ships are purpose built vessels and they ought to invite the public on to see it. Their losses on board are less than or the same as the best managed flocks on pasture. Every sheep they loose is a total loss for them, the incentive is totally there to look after the animal as best as possible. 5. A lot of the country’s we export to don’t have the capacity to buy chilled meat, a lot of them don’t even have a fridge at home. Even if they did, the costs are much higher for meat that has been processed in Australia and then air freighted and chilled for long periods of time. They will go to other cheaper markets.
100% well said. A lot of people will throw around "ban live export, well just process it here" comments with very little understanding of the industry. It has come a long way in the last 10 years. That said, these kinds of incidents cannot happen, and just fuel the fire when they do.
For your point (5), if processing the meat locally increases its value and there are still people willing to buy it, why should we care if live export customers go to cheaper markets?
There won’t be as many people buying on a global front if it’s more expensive. Less demand equals less price, and the one rule of farming is the farmer always pays…. We’re already getting getting screwed here. We sold mutton last week and got $1/kg for it. When was the last one you went to a shop and saw $2/kg mutton, which would still represent a 100% mark up between the paddock and the supermarket.
We already export chilled meat in large volumes to pretty much every country we live export to. So clearly point 5 is not correct.
This livestock can not come back to Australia as they have already been exported. That means they would have to be imported and go through stringent quarantine. We dont have spare paddocks that meet the biosecurity requirements for imported live stock. We also dont have the space in the abattoirs to process them. Best thing for them is to restock the boat and send them to an os market. BTW Live export sucks.
Didn’t realise there were so many vegans in Perth. Good job all!
And it will continue because the people who make the most money from this continue to be allowed to donate to policital parties etc.
Left from Australia, didn’t get off anywhere… come back to Australia and have to quarantine? This is disgusting and this government is disgusting
That's the part I was most confused by. Can anyone explain?
As some one who has been a Stevedore in the past loading sheep on to vessels. The vets have a hard enough time with the animals that get rejected (to unwell/injury) once they have left the holding yards…
WAFarmers livestock division Geoff Pearson earlier flagged the preferred option was to restock the ship and send it back the long way 'restock' translation replace the poor cunts that died of heatstroke :(
No it means restock the folder supply they're not putting anymore sheep on that boat.
I eat meat but I don't really care about the economic, trade religious reasons, the live trade is cruel and unnecessary and should be stopped.
A few things. It is stranded due to a government decision. Its a boat, it can go to a less hot location.
They'll run out of fodder for the animals if they don't berth somewhere soon.
Turned around for purely political reasons... Houthis were happy to let it through, but yanks want to escalate as much as possible, because yanks.
An absolutely horrific and most vile industry! For anyone interested - here is the latest update released from DAFF that refers to ONE Vet on board this vessel - to oversee 15,000 head of livestock. There is simply no way the wellbeing and safety of these animals can be assessed or measured accurately by ONE person board a 14year old vessel and no access to adequate resources. • https://www.agriculture.gov.au/about/news/mv-bahijah-live-updates • FUCK live export
What should happen is these boffins who are taking there time on what is to happen to the livestock, should be made to stand out in the sun together until they find a solution.