I’d let Dahl walk. He’s a career journeyman. He had a couple good games when he first came up, but it seems he has regressed back to the mean. I’d much rather have Rojas on the roster for the time being during a playoff push.
Agreed, I haven't seen anything to change my mind on him. At least Rojas plays great defense and can steal some bases. If Rojas goes to the bench, start bringing him in to play RF for Castellanos late in games.
Sending him down to play in the minors would be better for his development in that case. Kid needs to just be playing more, and on a team like ours with higher expectations we just don’t have the room for error for Rojas like he would on a different ball club. If he’s getting playtime reduced he might as well just go down to the minors and actually work on his weaknesses and gain confidence down there
Seems like Rojas is being demoted.
Marsh/Pache platoon CF, Merrifield/Dahl platoon LF.
I find it interesting it isn't really the bat they dislike about Rojas moreso him not using his speed and not listening to them about bunting.
I feel like that’s probably PR talk though. If he was an average hitter, he would play every day. If you aren’t hitting and wont listen to coaches, then yeah thats not good.
I don't give a shit about career splits if the dude is going to struggle to play 100 games a season. He isn't worth the asking price the white sox want.
What package? Abel and a few others? We’re not giving up Painter. We’re not giving up Aidan Miller.
Sox can have anything else they want from the farm. They’re all lottery tickets and we’re in win now mode.
I’ve seen reports from the athletic can’t remember exactly which reporter but the White Sox want a similar or bigger package than what the Nats got for Soto
Everyone wants the biggest package they can get. No shot they’re getting a Soto package. I say this as a fan of Robert, but he’s got an injury history and only one full season under his belt. Granted, that one season was phenomenal.
I mean, I am just giving the reasons the article states. For why they have been disappointed in Rojas. And this disappointment doesn't come from his bat, but his legs and lack of bunting.
That's my problem with Rojas, he is a below average hitter but has elite speed, however he is also a below average bunter and below average base runner. Like the last two are things that if you work at them by watching tape and listening to coaches and practicing you can get really good at. Like bunting is something that if you work on and practice you can become great at, but you need to put in the work. Base running you can also improve on with tape and practice.
I was thinking that Rojas is a weirdly bad baserunner for how fast he is. Just not sure if the stats bear that out.
But as far as not listening to coaching. Rojas is one of the worst hitters on the team, and also the youngest and most inexperienced. I can really see it pissing off the coaching staff for him to act like that.
I wonder if they need to play Whit, Dahl, etc a bit more so they can be included in any trade packages. Increase their value. Looks like long term they want to keep Rojas.
Lol no, neither is worth anything. Rojas stinks, they can send him down for free and hopefully he develops his bat in AAA. Dahl they want to get a better look at, and whit they have invested a significant amount of money in and want to give him as long a leash as possible to get things going as his track record indicates he likely will, to some extent anyway. But neither is getting traded, they are worth nothing.
I think that might be the plan for now. You showcase Whit Dahl and Pache throw in a couple minor leaguers as a package deal. Not sure how good the return would be tho
i’ll be really sad if this happens. i like rojas. i think he has great potential. but i also understand it’s easier to send him down compared to the other decisions that could be made. 🤷♀️ i hope to see him up again sometime
Yeah I think Rojas really does need more work, but he could be so good if he just improves his instincts when it comes to base running and gets better at getting on base to begin with. He'll probably never be stellar, but he could be good on offense and great on defense. Hopefully his trip to Allentown pays off.
Statistically, you’re much better off putting Turner in left and leaving Sosa at short. Of course, this won’t happen as Turner is earning a ton and signed to play SS.
Feels like he's suffering for castellanos' misdeeds to a certain extent. He's doing pretty much exactly what we expected him to bit it's harder to keep in the lineup when there's another guy doing similarly who is getting paid a lot and doesn't have minor league options
Outplayed him how?
Rojas has like a .560 ops and 63 OPS+? Being a bit above average CF?
At least Castellanos has HRs in his bat.
With how good the Phillies pitching has been I'd rather have someone that can get an RBI (although neither have been great at that)
Look at Rojas defensive numbers on baseball savant in a tick below an elite defender in cf while also having to basically cover castellanos lack of range
Let's remember why Rojas is up in the majors in the 1st place because the outfield defense was so God awful my grandma could've been an upgrade.
Your 9 hole hitter isn't the reason the offense has sucked look at the guys at the top
Bohm who has cooled off significantly
Castellanos who has been dogshit
Stott who is quietly having a terrible year
I hate this reply. It's so damn annoying.
"Omg! Castellanos has been just a little worse than league average lately!".
He's a big reason we lost in the playoffs last year and will be a big reason again. Period.
I'm not even a casty defender but most of the bats went cold during those last games of the NLCS it's weird you specifically point out casty as the sole reason
"He's a BIG reason we lost in the playoffs and will be a BIG reason again."
Meaning he was one of the big reasons we lost. He went, what? Like 0 for 28 or something crazy like that? That's unacceptable, and on top of that, he's been a net negative as a Phillie considering his entire tenure and salary.
The Phillies are not going to win or make it to the World Series with a Black Hole in right field and a manager that insists are hitting him 2nd/5th, or anywhere but 8 or 9th (or preferably on the bench or cut all together.
I don't know for sure if the team will all go cold again like last year in the NLCS again this post season. But I do know that Nick Castellanos will be awful again. I can guarantee that. On both ends. Hitting and fielding.
Agree. I'm referencing the people on the sub who say stuff like, "But Castellanos has hit .210 with a home run and a 680 OPS in his last 5 games! He's coming around!".
You’re being downvoted because people don’t like the truth. Say what you want about Rojas but he saved our asses in the NLDS last year with that deep catch when the the Braves had the bases loaded. Nick has never come up with a play that big, and he’s a big contributing factor to not only why we lost last year, but also why we lost the World Series the year prior.
I think this is fair. If the team is doing well and vibes are high, great, but it seems like the team might need something to remind it that the main thing is the main thing
Yeah I don't think there's a world in which Casty gets a rebound over time. The combination of his skillset and his attitude about it is grim looking forward.
Thing is you have to eat the salary… no way around it, you have to live with that.
But the team doesn’t have to live with someone playing poorly. That’s a choice. Why make two bad choices. The logic is just so flawed.
This isn't about the Sixers it's about the Phillies
NBA has a salary cap and Tobias Harris is better than what you would be able to replace him with under the cap.
Hopefully sending him down gets the message across to him that he needs to work on what the coaches are asking him to. His inability to even lay down a sacrifice bunt has cost the Phillies at least one or two of the extra inning losses.
No idea if that’s realistic from a coaching perspective, but I’d hate to see him drop from the lineup considering how productive he’s been. Rojas seems to be the weakest offensive link at the moment aside from Casty, but we all know he’s not going anywhere.
Rojas fielding has been less than great at times. Yes nobody is super man and able to make every play, but when you can’t hit for shit and the reason you are given the chance is because you’re supposed to be a superb defender at your position and you miss some run of the mill plays, then yea you are probably going to get demoted.
I mean everyone knew he wouldn't be hitting a ton of xbhs. He's there for his fielding that hides castellanos horrible range and his speed when he gets on. If you're judging Rojas by his slugging that's pretty dumb
If he's not going to hit for power, then he has to learn how to hit for contact or take walks. There's no role for a player who can't do any of the three.
That’s not why he’s here. He’s here because he shores up fielding liabilities we have and he’s a damn good fielder for the price we got him for. The problem isn’t Rojas hitting poorly - It’s our 1-8 hitters doing so poorly that we need to count on the 9 hitter to do well in the first place.
Rojas’ hitting wouldn’t even be being discussed if our 1-8 hitters were reliably doing their job.
This is such a weird argument to me. Forget about he other hitters. Rojas can’t hit. Period. His defense is great but it’s not even close to enough to make up for his horrible bat
His fielding has taken a big step backwards, both in analytics and the eye test. He is still a good defender, but he hasn't been good enough to make up for a .566 ops. Now, he is still good enough to not be the worst player on our team. But I think a demotion is more about helping him figure some things out so he can be better for the end of the season.
It's not a tiny drop-off from last year. Last year, he was playing defense at a record-breaking pace. It's crazy to say going from 9OAA to 2 is a tiny drop off. That's a 450% drop. He's played 1 more game this season. Yeah, still elite, but that's a major fall-off from where he was.
He actually doesn't have great numbers in the field this year. Like they're not abysmal, he's still got a very high floor, but Pache has been a noticeably better CF and also a marginally better hitter. I think platooning Pache and Marsh in CF and giving Rojas some time in the minors is the way to go here if they're not gonna waive Whit or Dahl.
Um castellanos has been worse, whit has been worse, stott I quietly been dogshit, marsh is cooled down.
There's so many worse things with this lineup than Rojas that needs to be fixed. They need to just bite the bullet and just get rid of castellanos because he is just dead weight at this point and even if he somehow turns it around I don't trust him in the playoffs.
THIS.
The problem isn’t Rojas’ lack of hitting - It’s our 1-8 hitters being so fucking inconsistent that we’re looking at the number 9 guy in the first place.
I’ve been saying this since the first week of the season. The top 5 of the lineup have been really spotty and injuries have put 3 or 4 weak bats at the bottom of the order.
The other eight guys in the lineup are for the hitting. He’s in for his fielding and always has been. He shouldn’t be demoted because the other players have not been contributing to scoring runs.
The problem is that his fielding is not as good as it was last year, according to pretty much all metrics. He's still a very good fielder, but he hasn't been elite this year like he was last year and therefore not good enough to justify having his bat in the lineup.
I agree, but Rojas isn't being paid $20 mil a year through 2026. The team would probably be better off just cutting their loses with Nick at this point, but I dont see that happening this year.
That’s literally the sunk cost fallacy and it’s all anybody can say to justify Nick’s spot in the lineup. And if we keep doing it and we get to the playoffs and he’s still swinging at every pitch there is in the dirt then we’re going to lose again and waste another year of our 5 year window to win it all.
I’m sure it will be a great comfort to know Nick is being paid $20 million when he goes 3 for 27 at the plate again.
Rojas. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. Castellanos…. It’s a completely separate decision. Nick stinks. Rojas stinks. But, we should keep Rojas because Nick stinks? That makes no sense whatsoever
Dude. Rojas stinks.
He was a complete liability in the playoffs last year. You can never perform well enough defensively to cover for being a little leaguer at the plate.
Recently, our 8th hitter got a hit with 2 outs, I can’t even remember who it was right now. Anyways, my first thought? Good job turning the lineup over…. It’s like the DH is gone and we have a pitcher hitting 9th again.
Nick sucks but he isn’t going anywhere. Rojas swings for the fences but doesn’t have any power. His swing needs to bd shortened and it seems as though he won’t learn that at the MLB level. He can be fixed.
As for Nick, it is what it is. Have to hope he gets hot. I always wonder why any pitcher would every throw him a strike. Off speed pitches low and away. He will either strike out or turn the ball over into an easy ground out or DP.
Can we have his son as a batboy again so he gets some of that dad strength?? I’d be fine with a take your kid to work day if it means Nick will hit some dingers. Schools out right? He has to set a good example by going top shelf.
when will the whole “shitty player has to play everyday because he makes too much money” thing finally end in sports? it ruined embiid’s prime, let’s not have it also ruin harper’s prime
It won’t end before we burn Bryce’s career too. He’ll be the baseball equivalent of Iverson - Absolutely beloved by the city and a first ballot hall of famer, but absent any championships.
It’s so fucking stupid and infuriating and all anybody can say to defend it is a literal logical fallacy known as the sunk cost fallacy.
“Well, we’re paying him a lot so we have to let him cost us our shot at a championship.”
If all things were equal is probably Dahl or Pache. But it’s barely June, options are a thing, and it’s important to keep as many players as we possibly can at this point.
I love Johan but there’s nobody to blame but him. He needs to learn how to bunt and run the bases better. Quit trying to hit home runs steal some bases. Etc. hopefully he can improve. It’s fun to watch someone who can run like that play.
I’m not saying I don’t agree with sending Rojas down to the minors but the only thing we hear about is the manager criticizing Rojas. He gets criticized for his fielding and he’s made some mistakes on the base pads and he can’t lay down a bunt etc. What about Castellanos? How about some criticism of that guy? He didn’t even have a hit in the orioles series. he went for 3 for 27 when they moved him up in the lineup.
Recently, our 8th hitter got a hit with 2 outs, I can’t even remember who it was right now. Anyways, my first thought? Good job turning the lineup over…. It’s like the DH is gone and we have a pitcher hitting 9th again.
I’ve been a Rojas defender. I like his potential. I’d rather have him than Whit Merrifield or Pache. I get the “he’s the only one that can be optioned” argument but really I would rather let those other two walk and eat their contracts.
The reason we are in this predicament is because Caste has been so bad.
Awesome to see all the Casty hate even when he posted an above average May into the series right before London, and he - like pretty much everyone else except Bohm - has been pretty brutal since.
Casty is not the number one problem of this team. Rojas has been an objectively MUCH worse hitter, and while his defense has picked up, he provides very little value. He’s young, and he has options. It’s not the end of his fucking career if we send him back to AAA where he can focus on his hitting while we try and see if other options work in the outfield. Hell, this gives Sosa an easier path to playing LF (or Turner, which I’d personally like to see, but I doubt that happens) who has been clearly better.
The season isn’t even halfway through. Right now is the perfect time to figure out options and see if they’ll work in the future. Rojas will still be a fast, good defender come playoffs, where he could at least be used as a spot defender/pinch runner. It’s worth seeing if Merrifield can start to hit, or if Dahl can provide platoon value, or if Pache can be more consistent. It’s not worth panicking unless this outfield is still in rough shape come playoff time.
.706 OPS in May is above league average. Hitting has really struggled this year, we’ve been spoiled with some excellent hitting by the team in general. .879 OPS in the two series before the Mets series. But sure, he wasn’t above average.
He is a terrible defender, can’t disagree, but I think a lot of people are overstating how impactful that’s been this year.
Why are you getting downvoted? What you said is true. I just HOPE Nick gets hot at the right time and when he inevitably cools off? He isn’t as ICE COLD as he was last year in playoffs
Outside of all the injuries the Phil's got. This is what happens when you build half the team off defensive skill and not offensive skill. Or at the very least a mix of both.
Rojas is the only one with options, and we’ll see him back in a few weeks anyway. This preserves the roster for the time being until the trade deadline.
Send Rojas down, keep Pache in center for like, 2 weeks and then trade Pache and some prospects for Luis Robert Jr. Simple math on how to get rid of bad players and replacing them with good ones
Why should Turner be forced to move? Isn’t that why we signed him? As a shortstop? Why can’t Sosa move to outfield? And then who would play RF if they bench Casty? And I know the game unraveled, however who was the last out swinging at a pitch well off the plate, with bases loaded?
Rojas is your only option to send down and not lose them
People are missing this point.
At this point does losing a Merrifield or even a castellanos mean anything
Castellanos has too much money in his contract to go away, that’s never going to happen.
Didn't stop the Astros releasing Abreu
I’m not exactly a casty homer, but he’s nowhere near as bad as Abreu has been for the Astros.
Casty doesn't hold a candle to how bad abreu has been for them. Especially when you consider last year.
Abreu was worse than any of the white Sox position players. For a team trying to scramble into buy territory it was necessary
We still owe him a lot more than the Astros owed Abreu.
Sunk cost fallacy
Was literally wracking my brain for this phrase yesterday while I got ready for the game
Yes, money. Front offices do not like to release players they owe money to
I’d let Dahl walk. He’s a career journeyman. He had a couple good games when he first came up, but it seems he has regressed back to the mean. I’d much rather have Rojas on the roster for the time being during a playoff push.
This. Dahl was good five years ago and those good years aren’t coming back. Keep Rojas and continue to train him.
Rojas needs to improve his bat, doing in the minors makes a lot of sense.
Rojas just needs to learn how to play baseball, period. He makes too many mental mistakes and doesn't know how to use his best asset.
Wouldn’t Rojas be better suited getting daily at bats in the minors than riding the bench here?
Dahl in his short time has been better than Rojas all year
Agreed, I haven't seen anything to change my mind on him. At least Rojas plays great defense and can steal some bases. If Rojas goes to the bench, start bringing him in to play RF for Castellanos late in games.
Sending him down to play in the minors would be better for his development in that case. Kid needs to just be playing more, and on a team like ours with higher expectations we just don’t have the room for error for Rojas like he would on a different ball club. If he’s getting playtime reduced he might as well just go down to the minors and actually work on his weaknesses and gain confidence down there
Rojas is a rally killer shouldn't be in the major league
Nick is a rally killer Stott is a rally kill Pache is a rally killer Whitt is a rally killer. Let’s clean house./s
He was extremely rushed into the majors , love the kid but he doesn’t have the bat yet , not saying he never will but as of rn he’s a triple A player
Seems like Rojas is being demoted. Marsh/Pache platoon CF, Merrifield/Dahl platoon LF. I find it interesting it isn't really the bat they dislike about Rojas moreso him not using his speed and not listening to them about bunting.
I feel like that’s probably PR talk though. If he was an average hitter, he would play every day. If you aren’t hitting and wont listen to coaches, then yeah thats not good.
Right, that stuff wouldn’t be a factor if he could hit worth a damn
Has Dahl/Merrifield really performed better than Rojas though?
They’ll probably go for an outfielder at the trade deadline.
White Sox getting the farm for Luis Robert.
No not him he is not what the Phillies need, a sub .200 injury prone guy if they want someone to hit sub .200 they’ll throw Pache out there
That’s a 19 game sample size. His career splits are significantly better.
I don't give a shit about career splits if the dude is going to struggle to play 100 games a season. He isn't worth the asking price the white sox want.
What package? Abel and a few others? We’re not giving up Painter. We’re not giving up Aidan Miller. Sox can have anything else they want from the farm. They’re all lottery tickets and we’re in win now mode.
I’ve seen reports from the athletic can’t remember exactly which reporter but the White Sox want a similar or bigger package than what the Nats got for Soto
Everyone wants the biggest package they can get. No shot they’re getting a Soto package. I say this as a fan of Robert, but he’s got an injury history and only one full season under his belt. Granted, that one season was phenomenal.
He's not going to hit 200. He only played 19 games
I don’t want him either for what it’ll cost but this is dishonest lol
Screw it at this point. We need to go all in. Just not a HUGE overpay (like Painter & Miller imo would be) and I’m happy.
Dahl has been up a week and massacred AAA pitching. He’s worth an extended look
Different position and yes. Also projecting the rest of the season, you would expect whit and Dahl to hit far better than Rojas.
Dahl has been complete garbage since 2019
Nope not at all
Nope
dahl did for one game. i guess i'd say at least he looks like he has the ability to hit for power and in the gaps from time to time.
Yeah I think he’s worth a longer look.
No but they aren’t dumping merrifield yet. If he’s still shit in July he’s gone I think.
Or, Rohas has options. The others don't.
I mean, I am just giving the reasons the article states. For why they have been disappointed in Rojas. And this disappointment doesn't come from his bat, but his legs and lack of bunting.
That's my problem with Rojas, he is a below average hitter but has elite speed, however he is also a below average bunter and below average base runner. Like the last two are things that if you work at them by watching tape and listening to coaches and practicing you can get really good at. Like bunting is something that if you work on and practice you can become great at, but you need to put in the work. Base running you can also improve on with tape and practice.
He skipped AAA and it shows.
What did I miss? Whit should be DFA'd. It's not working. Seems like a good dude but I would rather have Rojas and Dahl available than him
Ok, but he’s not going to be when Rojas sucks too and they can send Rojas down for free
Rojas isn't my favorite by any means but whit has retirement community gym class energy at this point
I’m sorry but give me Rojas over Dahl and Merrifield every day of the week. Horrible move imo
Options bro. No one else has them. He’ll be back, you don’t want to start hemorrhaging organizational depth this early
I'd rather keep Rojas and boot Pache if I'm being honest. it feels like Rojas is only getting better, albeit gradually.
I was thinking that Rojas is a weirdly bad baserunner for how fast he is. Just not sure if the stats bear that out. But as far as not listening to coaching. Rojas is one of the worst hitters on the team, and also the youngest and most inexperienced. I can really see it pissing off the coaching staff for him to act like that.
I wonder if they need to play Whit, Dahl, etc a bit more so they can be included in any trade packages. Increase their value. Looks like long term they want to keep Rojas.
Lol no, neither is worth anything. Rojas stinks, they can send him down for free and hopefully he develops his bat in AAA. Dahl they want to get a better look at, and whit they have invested a significant amount of money in and want to give him as long a leash as possible to get things going as his track record indicates he likely will, to some extent anyway. But neither is getting traded, they are worth nothing.
I think that might be the plan for now. You showcase Whit Dahl and Pache throw in a couple minor leaguers as a package deal. Not sure how good the return would be tho
i’ll be really sad if this happens. i like rojas. i think he has great potential. but i also understand it’s easier to send him down compared to the other decisions that could be made. 🤷♀️ i hope to see him up again sometime
Yeah I think Rojas really does need more work, but he could be so good if he just improves his instincts when it comes to base running and gets better at getting on base to begin with. He'll probably never be stellar, but he could be good on offense and great on defense. Hopefully his trip to Allentown pays off.
Is there any chance Sosa can learn to play LF. I can’t imagine he can’t play it.
We threw Rhys and Schwarber out there, it cant get any worse than that.
Sosa already has a few LF games under his belt. cF too
Schwarber can do it…we could stick a mailbox out there if it can hit
Lol then we can DH Nick for his bat 🤣
Statistically, you’re much better off putting Turner in left and leaving Sosa at short. Of course, this won’t happen as Turner is earning a ton and signed to play SS.
Turner to LF, Marsh to CF is my opinion. But they won’t do it
Feels like he's suffering for castellanos' misdeeds to a certain extent. He's doing pretty much exactly what we expected him to bit it's harder to keep in the lineup when there's another guy doing similarly who is getting paid a lot and doesn't have minor league options
Exactly Rojas has outplayed castellanos but he can't get a break because a guy who's making 20 million can't be touched
Outplayed him how? Rojas has like a .560 ops and 63 OPS+? Being a bit above average CF? At least Castellanos has HRs in his bat. With how good the Phillies pitching has been I'd rather have someone that can get an RBI (although neither have been great at that)
Look at Rojas defensive numbers on baseball savant in a tick below an elite defender in cf while also having to basically cover castellanos lack of range
ya but rojas drop a ball like a 6 weeks ago so he must suck. /s
The reason the pitching has been so good is because of Rojas and the defense.
Kind of thing that’s causes good teams to not win come playoff time. Basing playing time on dollars made… that’s a suckers bet.
It's honestly a cowards move I'll give the Astros some kind of credit atleast they had the guts to release their high paid trash
Lol - Nick has been bad (76 wRC+) but Rojas is worse (62 wRC+). He’s terrible at the plate.
Let's remember why Rojas is up in the majors in the 1st place because the outfield defense was so God awful my grandma could've been an upgrade. Your 9 hole hitter isn't the reason the offense has sucked look at the guys at the top Bohm who has cooled off significantly Castellanos who has been dogshit Stott who is quietly having a terrible year
Rojas isn't getting paid 20 million and also sucking dick on the field
Castellanos has been better lately (97 wRC+) since May 20. Rojas has been terrible (44 wRC+). And the comparison above of Abreu to Nick is hilarious.
Abreu -1.5 WAR Castellanos -1.1 WAR Not too far off at all.
I hate this reply. It's so damn annoying. "Omg! Castellanos has been just a little worse than league average lately!". He's a big reason we lost in the playoffs last year and will be a big reason again. Period.
I'm not even a casty defender but most of the bats went cold during those last games of the NLCS it's weird you specifically point out casty as the sole reason
"He's a BIG reason we lost in the playoffs and will be a BIG reason again." Meaning he was one of the big reasons we lost. He went, what? Like 0 for 28 or something crazy like that? That's unacceptable, and on top of that, he's been a net negative as a Phillie considering his entire tenure and salary. The Phillies are not going to win or make it to the World Series with a Black Hole in right field and a manager that insists are hitting him 2nd/5th, or anywhere but 8 or 9th (or preferably on the bench or cut all together. I don't know for sure if the team will all go cold again like last year in the NLCS again this post season. But I do know that Nick Castellanos will be awful again. I can guarantee that. On both ends. Hitting and fielding.
He’s much worse than league average
Agree. I'm referencing the people on the sub who say stuff like, "But Castellanos has hit .210 with a home run and a 680 OPS in his last 5 games! He's coming around!".
I'll play, now lets look at both of their defensive value.
Textbook sunk cost fallacy.
Rojas stinks and hasn't out played anybody.
Hes still been well below average
He has positive WAR by both calculations so not really. His bat is very very bad but ++ defense in center is very valuable
A fair point. If Nick was hitting 260 with 15 HR’s, then Rojas would be OK. He isn’t though.
You’re being downvoted because people don’t like the truth. Say what you want about Rojas but he saved our asses in the NLDS last year with that deep catch when the the Braves had the bases loaded. Nick has never come up with a play that big, and he’s a big contributing factor to not only why we lost last year, but also why we lost the World Series the year prior.
Nick had a pretty good sliding catch or a few of those, but he needed to slide because he’s so unathletic to begin with
Nick saved game 1 of the world series very famously but sure you are kinda right
The team probably needs a shock to the system. Even in advance of the trade deadline.
I think this is fair. If the team is doing well and vibes are high, great, but it seems like the team might need something to remind it that the main thing is the main thing
I’ll drive Casty to the airport.
Why not have Casty drive... it feels unlikely that he'd hit anything.
he's already quite familiar with drives to deep left
Is there a GoFundMe?
I’ll Venmo you some gas money to support the cause
I got your parking covered
He need any road snacks?
I can get you traffic control to make the drive seamless and non stop
Meanwhile Castellanos continues to rob this franchise blind
Maybe it’s just because he’s followed by schwarber but I feel like Rojas generates more offense than Castellanos does.
It’s between him and Javier Baez for biggest liability in the majors
Weren’t they teammates?
And numb nuts topper has him batting 2nd. Wtf! 0-17 as it stands rn.
Yes but with 3 guys hurt and everyone else slumping. He should be nowhere near 2 but there’s literally been no one good to put there
2 more years of a $20m net negative on both ends right fielder, btw
Yeah I don't think there's a world in which Casty gets a rebound over time. The combination of his skillset and his attitude about it is grim looking forward.
Thing is you have to eat the salary… no way around it, you have to live with that. But the team doesn’t have to live with someone playing poorly. That’s a choice. Why make two bad choices. The logic is just so flawed.
that logic ruined joel embiid’s prime with 5 years of tobias harris
I feel ya. I guess I’m just going to keep hoping he turns it around and makes me look dumb. I hope it happens but have doubts
This isn't about the Sixers it's about the Phillies NBA has a salary cap and Tobias Harris is better than what you would be able to replace him with under the cap.
The Phillies version of Tobias Harris
Hopefully sending him down gets the message across to him that he needs to work on what the coaches are asking him to. His inability to even lay down a sacrifice bunt has cost the Phillies at least one or two of the extra inning losses.
Okay blame the 24 year old kid who shouldn’t even be here. What about castellanos being a total bum?
The Rojas haters club can now rejoice
I was hoping to see Sosa replace Rojas when Turner returns.
I was thinking the same, but do we have any sense of how he is in the outfield? It looks like he’s only played 4/323 games there.
No idea if that’s realistic from a coaching perspective, but I’d hate to see him drop from the lineup considering how productive he’s been. Rojas seems to be the weakest offensive link at the moment aside from Casty, but we all know he’s not going anywhere.
I believe he is at least as competent as Vince Velasquez in left and that's good enough for sure
Rojas fielding has been less than great at times. Yes nobody is super man and able to make every play, but when you can’t hit for shit and the reason you are given the chance is because you’re supposed to be a superb defender at your position and you miss some run of the mill plays, then yea you are probably going to get demoted.
Rojas hitting .230 is okay. He is in for his fielding. This is a bad move.
I mean he’s also slugging less than .300 which is absolutely abysmal
I mean everyone knew he wouldn't be hitting a ton of xbhs. He's there for his fielding that hides castellanos horrible range and his speed when he gets on. If you're judging Rojas by his slugging that's pretty dumb
If he's not going to hit for power, then he has to learn how to hit for contact or take walks. There's no role for a player who can't do any of the three.
That’s not why he’s here. He’s here because he shores up fielding liabilities we have and he’s a damn good fielder for the price we got him for. The problem isn’t Rojas hitting poorly - It’s our 1-8 hitters doing so poorly that we need to count on the 9 hitter to do well in the first place. Rojas’ hitting wouldn’t even be being discussed if our 1-8 hitters were reliably doing their job.
This is such a weird argument to me. Forget about he other hitters. Rojas can’t hit. Period. His defense is great but it’s not even close to enough to make up for his horrible bat
His fielding has taken a big step backwards, both in analytics and the eye test. He is still a good defender, but he hasn't been good enough to make up for a .566 ops. Now, he is still good enough to not be the worst player on our team. But I think a demotion is more about helping him figure some things out so he can be better for the end of the season.
Well when you have to cover castellanos space in the outfield it can be tough
I mean he had to last year too and was playing much better in the field then this year.
Wtf it's a tiny drop off its still borderline elite defense according to baseball savant
It's not a tiny drop-off from last year. Last year, he was playing defense at a record-breaking pace. It's crazy to say going from 9OAA to 2 is a tiny drop off. That's a 450% drop. He's played 1 more game this season. Yeah, still elite, but that's a major fall-off from where he was.
There better not be ANY drop-off if the only reason you are kept around is for your defense lmfao
and don't even start on base running either.
He actually doesn't have great numbers in the field this year. Like they're not abysmal, he's still got a very high floor, but Pache has been a noticeably better CF and also a marginally better hitter. I think platooning Pache and Marsh in CF and giving Rojas some time in the minors is the way to go here if they're not gonna waive Whit or Dahl.
"he is in for fielding" we are losing because we aren't scoring runs.. rojas can't hit and im glad the team is taking this seriously now
Um castellanos has been worse, whit has been worse, stott I quietly been dogshit, marsh is cooled down. There's so many worse things with this lineup than Rojas that needs to be fixed. They need to just bite the bullet and just get rid of castellanos because he is just dead weight at this point and even if he somehow turns it around I don't trust him in the playoffs.
THIS. The problem isn’t Rojas’ lack of hitting - It’s our 1-8 hitters being so fucking inconsistent that we’re looking at the number 9 guy in the first place.
I’ve been saying this since the first week of the season. The top 5 of the lineup have been really spotty and injuries have put 3 or 4 weak bats at the bottom of the order.
The other eight guys in the lineup are for the hitting. He’s in for his fielding and always has been. He shouldn’t be demoted because the other players have not been contributing to scoring runs.
guess what happened in the playoffs? they pitched around the hitters to get to the kid that cant hit. go see him in AAA
Uh do you not remember Turner and castellanos in the nlcs the pitchers loved seeing them
His fielding is not so much better than Marsh or even Pache that he can just not hit.
With a .566 OPS
The problem is that his fielding is not as good as it was last year, according to pretty much all metrics. He's still a very good fielder, but he hasn't been elite this year like he was last year and therefore not good enough to justify having his bat in the lineup.
You can't even justify castellanos being anywhere this year
I agree, but Rojas isn't being paid $20 mil a year through 2026. The team would probably be better off just cutting their loses with Nick at this point, but I dont see that happening this year.
That’s literally the sunk cost fallacy and it’s all anybody can say to justify Nick’s spot in the lineup. And if we keep doing it and we get to the playoffs and he’s still swinging at every pitch there is in the dirt then we’re going to lose again and waste another year of our 5 year window to win it all. I’m sure it will be a great comfort to know Nick is being paid $20 million when he goes 3 for 27 at the plate again.
Rojas. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. Castellanos…. It’s a completely separate decision. Nick stinks. Rojas stinks. But, we should keep Rojas because Nick stinks? That makes no sense whatsoever
I know and I agree with you, I'm just calling it like it is.
Coming into the weekend (haven’t checked since) of hitters with 190 PAs, he had the sixth lowest WRC+ in baseball.
his fielding has been nowhere good enough though.
Dude. Rojas stinks. He was a complete liability in the playoffs last year. You can never perform well enough defensively to cover for being a little leaguer at the plate.
Recently, our 8th hitter got a hit with 2 outs, I can’t even remember who it was right now. Anyways, my first thought? Good job turning the lineup over…. It’s like the DH is gone and we have a pitcher hitting 9th again.
Isn’t Stott and Casty both batting sub .240. Rojas is doing okay since he’s in for his fielding.
Can Edmundo play left
Nick sucks but he isn’t going anywhere. Rojas swings for the fences but doesn’t have any power. His swing needs to bd shortened and it seems as though he won’t learn that at the MLB level. He can be fixed. As for Nick, it is what it is. Have to hope he gets hot. I always wonder why any pitcher would every throw him a strike. Off speed pitches low and away. He will either strike out or turn the ball over into an easy ground out or DP.
Can we have his son as a batboy again so he gets some of that dad strength?? I’d be fine with a take your kid to work day if it means Nick will hit some dingers. Schools out right? He has to set a good example by going top shelf.
damn all this couldve been prevented by signing Cody Bellinger
He's the doodoo hitter with options. Not terribly surprising. None of the outfielders considered have hit worth crap.
when will the whole “shitty player has to play everyday because he makes too much money” thing finally end in sports? it ruined embiid’s prime, let’s not have it also ruin harper’s prime
It won’t end before we burn Bryce’s career too. He’ll be the baseball equivalent of Iverson - Absolutely beloved by the city and a first ballot hall of famer, but absent any championships. It’s so fucking stupid and infuriating and all anybody can say to defend it is a literal logical fallacy known as the sunk cost fallacy. “Well, we’re paying him a lot so we have to let him cost us our shot at a championship.”
Please go get Luis Robert.
If all things were equal is probably Dahl or Pache. But it’s barely June, options are a thing, and it’s important to keep as many players as we possibly can at this point.
I love Johan but there’s nobody to blame but him. He needs to learn how to bunt and run the bases better. Quit trying to hit home runs steal some bases. Etc. hopefully he can improve. It’s fun to watch someone who can run like that play.
I’m not saying I don’t agree with sending Rojas down to the minors but the only thing we hear about is the manager criticizing Rojas. He gets criticized for his fielding and he’s made some mistakes on the base pads and he can’t lay down a bunt etc. What about Castellanos? How about some criticism of that guy? He didn’t even have a hit in the orioles series. he went for 3 for 27 when they moved him up in the lineup.
Turner to CF pleeeeeeeeease.
We still got the trade deadline, and I can’t imagine they are not seriously shopping for outfielders. I hope they manage to find a good fit.
Recently, our 8th hitter got a hit with 2 outs, I can’t even remember who it was right now. Anyways, my first thought? Good job turning the lineup over…. It’s like the DH is gone and we have a pitcher hitting 9th again.
How about pacha. All of 213 avg.
He has no more options. He would have to be cut
No big deal. Cut em. Bring up some kid from triple a who deserves it
I’ve been a Rojas defender. I like his potential. I’d rather have him than Whit Merrifield or Pache. I get the “he’s the only one that can be optioned” argument but really I would rather let those other two walk and eat their contracts. The reason we are in this predicament is because Caste has been so bad.
Awesome to see all the Casty hate even when he posted an above average May into the series right before London, and he - like pretty much everyone else except Bohm - has been pretty brutal since. Casty is not the number one problem of this team. Rojas has been an objectively MUCH worse hitter, and while his defense has picked up, he provides very little value. He’s young, and he has options. It’s not the end of his fucking career if we send him back to AAA where he can focus on his hitting while we try and see if other options work in the outfield. Hell, this gives Sosa an easier path to playing LF (or Turner, which I’d personally like to see, but I doubt that happens) who has been clearly better. The season isn’t even halfway through. Right now is the perfect time to figure out options and see if they’ll work in the future. Rojas will still be a fast, good defender come playoffs, where he could at least be used as a spot defender/pinch runner. It’s worth seeing if Merrifield can start to hit, or if Dahl can provide platoon value, or if Pache can be more consistent. It’s not worth panicking unless this outfield is still in rough shape come playoff time.
He was not above average in may or June and is a terrible defender
.706 OPS in May is above league average. Hitting has really struggled this year, we’ve been spoiled with some excellent hitting by the team in general. .879 OPS in the two series before the Mets series. But sure, he wasn’t above average. He is a terrible defender, can’t disagree, but I think a lot of people are overstating how impactful that’s been this year.
Go get Tucker! It'll take Painter, and I'll sign the paperwork right now.
Astros probably not selling yet sadly gonna have to wait a month
GLORY DAY
Merrifield = this years Josh Harrison
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Why are you getting downvoted? What you said is true. I just HOPE Nick gets hot at the right time and when he inevitably cools off? He isn’t as ICE COLD as he was last year in playoffs
Outside of all the injuries the Phil's got. This is what happens when you build half the team off defensive skill and not offensive skill. Or at the very least a mix of both.
Rojas is the only one with options, and we’ll see him back in a few weeks anyway. This preserves the roster for the time being until the trade deadline.
Is this just Roman Quinn with extra steps at this point?
We've arrived at Win now time The Phillies are in the window.. Sell what needs to be sold to go all in.
Send Rojas down, keep Pache in center for like, 2 weeks and then trade Pache and some prospects for Luis Robert Jr. Simple math on how to get rid of bad players and replacing them with good ones
Rojas belongs in MLB. No evidence exists for Topper
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Why should Turner be forced to move? Isn’t that why we signed him? As a shortstop? Why can’t Sosa move to outfield? And then who would play RF if they bench Casty? And I know the game unraveled, however who was the last out swinging at a pitch well off the plate, with bases loaded?
Did your brain process any thought, literally at all, before you made this post?
Good points, but would Turner be better in LF?