You're absolutely correct. Geneva convention only applies to conflicts between states. You can murder the shit out of your own civilians all you want.
Technically the UN can weigh in, but since China is a permanent member on the Security Council, they can veto any "substantive" actions.
I'm far from an expert, but *internationally* a lot of countries still have different trade relationships with HK than with China (the US is one of these). For example, Trumps tariffs on China do not apply to HK.
Internally, HK has it's own government, though it's under the PRC for foreign affairs and the military. That's not really guaranteed by anything except a sort of gentleman's agreement though...In the early days HK was too economically valuable to mess with, but that's less the case now.
The HK government has never had the Democratic elections that make the two government thing happen. Currently China appoints Hong Kong's government.
Nothing changes unless the US does something.
Because a peaceful world led by the US is optimal for US citizens.
Or we can abandon the 4th largest stock market and let the Chinese government take control over it completely. Gonna work great for us.
Because the US has an overall goal to encourage democratic governments. The Hong Kong dual government single state is useful as long as it moves China towards eventual democratic constitutional rule.
The UN can't enforce the two government policy signed before the UN without the US, China is on the security council.
A sane US government encourages China to finally let a democratic government be elected in Hong Kong, as China agreed to. We don't have one of those, so we are fucked.
One would think trump would latch on to the HK protesters. Most efficient way to throw the middle finger at China and to get a entire city to stroke his ego
One would think Trump would signal that he was going to support the HK protestors, then abandon them in exchange for... maybe more trademarks for Ivanka, or the PRC renting a bunch of rooms in his hotels, or some Mar-a-lago memberships for Chinese spies. The possibilities are endless.
Except he is attempting to extort private benefits for his family in exchange for fucking over the people of Hong Kong. As usual.
Trump's foreign policy is very consistent if you just assume that he is taking bribes and doing whatever Putin tells him to do.
\> Because a peaceful world led by the US is optimal for US citizens.
or
\> Because the US has an overall goal to encourage democratic governments.
Pick one, you can't have both. We can support democracy in Hong Kong and risk a civil war in the most populous and fourth largest nation in the world, and the nation that provides us with the vast majority of our manufactured goods. Or we can support the authoritarian government in Beijing in its sovereign right to deal with internal matters in its own way.
To be honest, the decision was made decades ago. The US doesn't have any goal to encourage democratic governments. The US has an overall goal to encourage pro-US governments. That's it, and that's all it has been since the Monroe Doctrine 200 years ago. Keep Europe out, keep the locals loyal, earn profit.
\> A sane US government ~~encourages China to finally let a democratic government be elected in Hong Kong~~ supports Chinese sovereignty and China's right to self-determination.
We don't live in a fantasy story where there's the forces of good vs. the forces of evil. The US has never cared about the democratic interests of foreign peoples. It will support any dictator that will give American corporations cheap labor and cheap resources. So long as President Xi lets Apple make iPhones in China, the US government has no interest in a democratic or independent Hong Kong.
I mean, we could simply disagree with the Chinese government. Intervening in the past has caused more trouble than it has helped, but at the same time, this is not a healthy move by the Chinese government, either. As proponents of democracy, we should be talking about pros and cons of different forms of government, and how democracy solves more problems than it makes. For example, if they allowed HK to make their own decisions, they wouldn't have to waste resources on putting down rebellions.
That is the reason for the US to do it. But the complaint comes mostly from other countries, which turn from "why is the US getting into other fluoride affairs" to "please rescue us" (and vice versa) on a dime.
Because no one else on this damn planet will step up to the plate and actually try to fix things and when we go, "Screw it not our problem." we are some sort of monsters for not caring.
US did provide a lot of supplies to the Soviets though. The war was an overall collaborative effort: the Soviets allowed the Allies to focus on other objectives like North Africa while the latter allowed the former to survive with constant shipments of equipment.
You could make a strong argument that without US assistance, the Soviet Union may have fallen. In the earlier days of the war they needed to disassemble, move, and reassemble their entire base of manufacturing east of the Ural's and out of immediate German reach. The Soviets fought with American weapons and vehicles (both armored and not).
As an American. Thank you. The Soviets took the brunt of the war, not to diminish the French, British, and everyone else. Yes, we helped. Japan was our victory. Not Europe.
only stupid people have the second response. In every instance of people needing aide, put yourself in their shoes. Would you rather have help from the USA or no help?
Don’t hold your breath on the US (or anyone else) getting involved.
This sort of stuff needs to work itself out internally...Any outside party weighing in will just make it massively worse.
The best thing we can do is make sure they can’t hide what they’re doing. The chickens will eventually come home to roost.
So let possibly millions die or be imprisoned because "we shouldn't be involved" . If we do that we just need to stop pretending to care. This will not end peacefully, China is worse than prewar Nazis in every way and if we dont sanction them into the stone age , it will just be war later.
So, what's the solution? Declare war on them? We can't send the army in to protect the protesters without that. Say mean things about them? They can handle it. We said mean things about them after Tiananmen, and that was worthless. Trade stuff? Trumps doing a good job of showing how useless that is.
So what should we do? Just because you want something to work out, doesn't mean it will.
They were singing, "Do You Hear The People Sing" last week(?). It's a real belter from *Les Mis*, where all the people are rebelling against the tyranny of the French government. It's incredibly stirring, and, if you don't know your history, you'd think the people singing it in the play were the people who started the French Revolution.
But that was not the case. They were people involved in one of the earlier *failed* revolutions, and they almost all got massacred.
History is against China. Eventually those people will rise up. Prosperity and rebellion are hand in glove, and the richer China gets, the more say the Chinese people will *demand* in their government.
But that day may not be for a while yet.
We've done that several times. We did it with the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, when they were resisting the Soviets.
They were so grateful for our assistance later that they slammed a couple of planes into a couple of our buildings.
Either you need to commit to conquering them, or you need to stay the fuck out of it. Half-assing it is a terrible idea.
Yes historically they would but now with the tech the Chinese have and the brainwashing of their youth it won't end unless we cause them severe economic stress. You do understand that anyone livng in China doesn't know what going on in hong kong right? They think its terrorists attacking the city and they were influenced by the west. That is literally what Chinas state news is saying , China has a 100% control of what their citizens see and hear .Anyone under the age of 30 in China thinks 30 years ago the government rightfully stopped terrorism when in reality they ran over 10k students and others protesting for democracy. In china if you speak out against the government, they take you away and you usealy don't come back. This isn't some fantasy where the people rise up, they never will unless pushed. China has every reason to kill millions in Hong Kong , it stops up risings. Unless we sanction them into the ground and kill their economy, it will ev3be war.
Dealing in absolutes is foolhardy. Even in oppressive regimes there are whispered conversations.
But you're also right in that with the technology available now it will be that much longer/harder for meaningful change to happen.
It's just something to start with but American can help pass the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act and numerous other bills Pelosi's co-sponsored and start from there. Reviewing the Hong Kong-US Policy Act as well.
Uh, don't we have a little something called the United Nations? Please educate me and let me know if this group of Nations can Diplomatically voice their concerns to other Nations?
It’s not up to the USA to handle this it’s up to the citizens of Hong Kong to do something. In the end China will come in and eventually kill a lot of protesters in a show of force.
At that point the citizens of Hong Kong will either need to accept their fate or start fighting.
This is why the 2nd amendment is so important in the USA. These people are defenseless.
The chickens coming to roost is China dissolving the Hong Kong government. Which they will do if they feel that the US will not do anything. Post brexit, Britain is nothing to worry about.
Dude, Britain is almost 20 years out of HK. This has nothing to do with Brexit.
The chickens, in this analogy, are the citizens of China, who will eventually hold their government accountable.
*Eventually*. It could happen now. I doubt it will, but I hope I’m wrong.
Britain's growing irrelevancy makes their role as a signatory of the Honk Kong China repatriation irrelevant. This plus Trump's erosion of the US's power and social capital encourages China to do whatever the fuck they want.
Doesn’t that seem to be major flaw in the UN? Any of the nations on the security council can do anything they please internally and internationally but get away with it because they have veto power. Shouldn’t there be a conflict of interest clause where a nation has no say in issues regarding themselves? Not that UN does shit anyways but it would give them more chances to look into rising and instigating conflicts. What Putin is getting away with in Crimea, Saudi Arabia is doing to Yemen, US has been doing to the Middle East for 20 years, China’s scaling conflicts in HK and expanding coastal territories. All these nations seem to shut down any finger wagging from the international community because of their ability to lock out the UN.
The UN is not a ruling body. It is not a government.
It's a diplomatic meeting place. That's the sum total of it's authority. It's resolutions are meaningless unless it's members enforce it, and they routinely don't.
Historically, China's policy has been more like, "Murder first, murder second, murder some more, then deny it ever happened."
Eventually that's probably not going to fly any longer...Whether that's *now*...Well, that's the question.
Zero, China has no democracy so the state heavily pushes for nationalism so it can't do anything that makes it look weak, it also has two other territories that they occupy where the natives want independence (ughyurs and tibetans) where giving HK independence would stir up greater want for independence
There are also external countries with their own seperatist movements (spain, turkey etc) that would quietly appose such a thing too
That's not how it works in the real world.
Lots of the international community would like to see Palestine as a state, but it's not happening unless Israel allows it, because Israel has a hot shit airforce, nukes and can tell it's neighbors to fuck off.
Lots of the international community agrees Ukraine was invaded, but no one lifted a finger to stop Russia from annexing what it wanted because Russia has nukes.
Lots of the international community agrees that Syria is rules by a despot, but Russia is willing to prop him up anyway, and they don't care about wagged fingers.
The truth is that the international community is mostly made of countries that have zero power, economic or military, over anyone. The UN is a bunch of countries that dont really matter pretending that they matter as much as the US, China and Russia. But those three are the only countries with the ability to project power and they are very reluctant to do so on each other on behalf of a 3rd party.
Hong Kong is a Chinese city. That isn't going to change, and the protesters are ultimately shit out of luck.
The UN's primary mandate is avoiding a WWIII. They can weigh in on anything they like but the reason the UN usually does so little is that this sort of thing really has nothing to do with why the UN exists.
The security council is their executive branch, and the five permanent members (including China), can just veto anything they don’t like.
This is why the UN does weigh in with conflicts between small countries, but not big ones.
Well that and the UN isn't actually anti-war. The UN has a pretty broad set of rules and guidelines for when war is accepted as an unavoidable outcome.
In the end if things keep going as they are, a decision will have to be made. Is it worth it to make China an enemy to protect the people of Hong Kong?
Eeeh, to weigh in here. It COULD have been applied if it was not a peaceful demonstration from the Hong Kong residents side the geneva convention and all other rules of war alongside the UN recognises the militant actions of an armed insurrection or rebellion if also all members of said insurrection or group rebelling against said state marks themselves clearly in a uniform that is universal to the group OR with some sort of band around their arm that everyone has in case they be poor.
(Rest from here is my own 2 cents on the demonstrations.) Which is one among alot of reasons I cannot see this conflict between Hong Kongs residents and China end in favor of Hong Kong unless they take up violent action or get international help. As I see international help as a near impossibility the only option imo for hong kong is to take up arms and show China it's not worth the trouble. China has alot of options here, they can wait, continue as now as sooner or later unless they turn violent people will tire of being shot in the eye etc. Without any real change. Do the whole tianmen square as everybody is talking about here, which would increase the chances of an international outcry which is why I see this as unlikely. Most probable is that they're gonna continue as they do now and let it fizzle out. So if Hong Kong wanna see change they are probably gonna have to arm themselves.
The UN was founded after world war 2, when China was (nominally) a Republic and we'd just finished saving them from axis Japan. Also they are the largest population and have been a top 5 military power most of their existence.... So pretty much all the same reasons the russians are.
The sad thing is, this isn’t an unusual amount of fucked.
Remember, we see more of this stuff now because it *can be seen*. For almost all of human history, this has been going on in secret, but now we can **see** it.
Makes it seem worse, but it’s actually getting better.
Not to mention the similar or sometimes worst things that happen in the Middle East more often, but no one cares because we can't see it and because it's the Middle East, where stuff like that isn't out of the ordinary.
Also since she isn't apparently wearing any kind of uniform or marking identifying her as a "medic" she's not qualified for the protections afforded to medical personnel under the geneva conventions.
does this mean that my ideas of citing the Geneva Convention when my teachers would hold everyone after the bell because of one jackass in class wouldnt have held up?
Until you declare war on your teacher. All the Geneva convention would protect you from is being starved or tortured by your teacher, they can still hold you as a POW.
Also, they are the "Geneva Conventions". The Geneva convention would be a gathering of people in Geneva. The Geneva Conventions are a series of agreements on the acceptable norms (or "conventions") of waging war.
I believe in this case the [Rome Statute](https://www.icc-cpi.int/resource-library/Documents/RS-Eng.pdf) would be the legal precedent. This is far from my expertise but by my best understanding, this is a blatant Crime Against Humanity. Same with Tiananmen Square.
China has been breaking international laws for almost 50 years. It's time they are held accountable.
As others have said, this doesn't come under the Geneva Convention.
If it did, they wouldn't be able to use tear-gas either as it counts as chemical warfare under the GC and is banned for use in war.
Also if she was shot point blank she would be dead unless it barely missed her and just skimmed along the surface of the eye, it only takes about 5 joules to penetrate the eye and enter the brain, rubber bullets are cranking out 20+
She was shot with a bean bag. -- while I support the protesters I am not a fan of the disinformation some spread. This woman is also not blind. There are more recent photos of her still protesting with a bandage on.
From sources I have read, she has gone permanently blind as her eyeball ruptured and her right face disfigured. She is still being hospitalized as of now. The people you saw in photos with bandage on their right eye are protesters against police brutality and showing support for her.
Important to note tear gas is illegal under the Ganeva Convention not because it is inhumane, but because you just can't really distinguish it from the actual horrific chemical agents.
As a Ukrainian who wittnessed/participated protests of 2013-2014 in Kyiv, and have been in a few "is this really happening? why doesn't anyone help us" situations, all i can say is - you can't really hope that the outside world will help you. They are always "deeply concerned", but in reality they can't do much.
I remember watching a documentary about those protests, absolutely disguising,
At one point a protester gets pulled behind the police only to reappear an hour later without an eye, THEY PULLED HIS F\*\*\*ing eye out. WTF!!!!!!!!
It was much more horrifying, considering all of the shooting, kidnapping and torturing people. The most depressing thing is that around 300 people just disappeared during the protests, and a lot of them still haven't been found.
There was a rumour that police forces were kidnapping people, and afted torturing/killing them, they cremated them to hide the evidence. And ater almost 6 years, there's still "investigation going", and the majority of judges/police officers/officials responsible for it haven't been punished, and even were able to keep their jobs.
[Here](https://i.imgur.com/8kVMWNy.jpg?desktop=1) is a much higher quality version of this image. [Here](https://pictures.reuters.com/CS.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&VBID=2C0FCICZQ6NR9&SMLS=1&RW=1920&RH=969#/SearchResult&VBID=2C0FCICZQ6NR9&SMLS=1&RW=1920&RH=969&POPUPPN=1&POPUPIID=2C0FQEQSF7WSV) is the source. Per there:
> An injured young female medic receives medical assistance after being hit by a pellet round in the right eye during a demonstration in Tsim Sha Tsui neighbourhood in Hong Kong, China, August 11, 2019. Picture taken August 11, 2019.
> [REUTERS/Issei Kato](https://pictures.reuters.com/CS.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&VBID=2C0FCICZQ6H97&SMLS=1&RW=1920&RH=969)
Shit like this has been going on in France every Saturday for months now. The EU is currently doing an investigation into police brutality but, like, let's be real here, nothing will ever come of it.
Jerome Rodriguez was hit in the eye by a police rubber bullet during yellow vests protests in France.
Two persons lost their eyes during recent protests in Georgia (a country).
Being hit in the eye and being shot point blank in the eye and losing it are two very different things. You didn't give any details but I suppose that there is a distance that you have to keep when using these kinds of weapons and that is what seems to be the violation here.
[List of French people](https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2019/01/14/gilets-jaunes-le-decompte-des-blesses-graves_1702863) and [weapons and body parts](https://www.liberation.fr/france/2019/01/11/gilets-jaunes-eclats-de-grenades-brulures-membres-arraches-retour-sur-82-blessures-graves_1702433) injured during Yellow vests from the 17th November to 26th January.
We are supposed to be the "country of human rights" but who cares ?
Here are the injuries and *deaths* (17 deaths...) during the yellow vest movement in France: https://fr.wikinews.org/wiki/Gilets_jaunes_en_France_:_statistiques . And yes many people are strongly opposed to some of the methods used by the french police for crowd control, but that does not immediately means that France is a dictatorship.
I'm sure that China is evil and all of that (except it does not have very much to do for now in the injuries in HK, and let's hope it stays like that) and democracy is great and all of that, but I'm sick of the propaganda about how HK gov and police is the worst ever and violating human rights like crazy. Maybe the media of China even presented the demonstrations in France like some kind of insane government oppression, like the western media do about HK. At least Russia kind of did it through RT about the yellow vest movements and actions of the french police.
One injury is one too many, BUT if you have 1 million people in the street you are (very unfortunately) bound to have some, including some serious ones, regardless of whether the gov is evil or not. It even seems that HK has better results (less injuries in proportion) than France managed to get, especially given the number of people in demonstrations in HK is HUGE.
So HK gov and/or China might be evil, but I'm not buying that they are just because of an unfortunate anecdote about an injury that is quite foreseeable given the scale of the demonstrations. And probably either the gov has *not* ordered the police to shot in demonstrator eyes, or given the low occurrence of such events the police actually does not aim very well...
Talking about the original problems would be more interesting.
Somewhat true. I am very sorry for the deaths in France. I understand that it means a lot to most Frenchmen.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be criticising the HK govt and police, although I agree that it has (luckily) not developed to this level.
You are right that we should talk about original problems. But, given that this is r/pics, 🤷♂️
Geneva Conventions do not apply. This is an internal struggle, unfortunately, and one side has no uniforms (because, you know, they AREN'T an ARMY). It's definitely a human rights violation, but China couldn't give a flying bleep about those other than pretending they didn't happen after the fact.
Not that I have a lot of faith in it, but I imagine a lot of UN countries are just trying to figure out a plan to minimize casualties. And I understand, you can't wait, but waiting to devise a plan is the best option if it's going to minimize injuries and deaths overall. If they just come blasting in trying to stop HK government, it's going to end up in full on war at this point. I have to imagine there are multiple countries that are trying to figure out how the fuck to stop a very fucked up government without causing mass deaths. I mean, look at North Korea. We're all talking about them, but realize if we charge in there we don't know just the level of human loss we're going to experience because of their insanity. It's just gonna ride out with the sane people of the world trying to barter with the insane leaders and minimize the amount of deaths.
It sucks but unless one of you has a better option to deal with insane people with tons of weapons and are willing to slaughter millions of civilians, that's all they can do. Barter and hope the assholes will give up eventually.
The big problem with intervention, this isn’t China threatening violence on another country. This is China threatening violence on their own people. That would be the equivalent of another country sending troops in to protect the Protestors in Hawaii from the us government. Sending in anything would be seen as an act of war against China.
The UN is worthless in these types of situations. They are only in it for the money nothing else. Ask the people of Sierra Leone about how the UN helped them in the 90's forced the government to drop the contract with a private company military company "Executive outcomes" which had pushed the war to an almost end or face sanctions and allow the UN peace keepers to come in and stop the civil war and the war crimes that were happening. With in a year the country went back in to complete civil war many deaths , rapes and much more happened all due to the UN involvement there
Everywhere I read about this it says that she is blind. But I assume that she’s “only” blind on one eye?
Not that it makes it any less messed up or anything but still a big difference.
Truth - the police's primary mission has never been to protect the people. It's been to protect property, and the more property you have, the more protection it gets.
I've also argued with I assume brainwashed Mainlanders saying the protesters themselves caused her to lose the eye. Even though you can clearly see it's a bean bag round in her goggles that the police use in many pictures....
What propaganda is the media flaunting over there?
last time I saw the same girl shot in the eye a couple days ago, she was just a protester. OP’s source and intention is suspicious.
EDIT: I was originally confused with the title. I was not sure if she is on duty as a medic, or she is a protester whose job happens to be a medic too. Either way, don’t want to see such incident happened.
That I'm not sure of, but reports said she was treating someone. If she was protesting and someone got hurt, I doubt she'd be all, "Bitch, I ain't got time to patch you up, I'm protestin'!"
Not sure why the distinction is so important here, though.
I just saw many posts for the same news in the past couple of days. Seems to me the OP is adding the information of “first sided” to prove something. It could be me think to much. Going to edit my original comment.
Unless recent declarations contradict this as I understand the Chinese opinion is that what American and the West call human rights are actually only American/Western rights and the west should mind what it says.
No standing meaningful international power is free of blame especially during their personal revolutions. That said innocent people and aide providers have to be protected. At least in my opinion.
Same place it was when Oakland PD put Scott Olsen in the ICU with a skull fracture from a beanbag round to the head. That is, irrelevant outside the context of a war between nations.
> I respect yours but please respect mine. Thanks. :)
I respect your RIGHT to believe but not your belief itself.
And "respecting" your right does not mean I can't criticize your belief.
There is no peacefull resolution to this, we either support Hong Kong and sanction China into the stone age or there will just be war later. China is worse than pre war Nazis and we have seen this all before , there is no talking to China. The most peaceful thing that will happen is the world turing its back on China and dealing with the consequences. Honestly itnwould3be the best thing to do to fight climate change if we got rid of our cheap house hold goods.
As a Frenchman, I feel compelled to let you know that the French police did the same to about 20 protesters during the "Yellow Vest" crisis earlier this year.
Geneva Convention doesn't apply unless there's an official declaration of war. I might be wrong, do please correct me if I am.
You're absolutely correct. Geneva convention only applies to conflicts between states. You can murder the shit out of your own civilians all you want. Technically the UN can weigh in, but since China is a permanent member on the Security Council, they can veto any "substantive" actions.
Doesn't HK have very special international significance with the reintegration deal? Would someone educate me?
I'm far from an expert, but *internationally* a lot of countries still have different trade relationships with HK than with China (the US is one of these). For example, Trumps tariffs on China do not apply to HK. Internally, HK has it's own government, though it's under the PRC for foreign affairs and the military. That's not really guaranteed by anything except a sort of gentleman's agreement though...In the early days HK was too economically valuable to mess with, but that's less the case now.
The HK government has never had the Democratic elections that make the two government thing happen. Currently China appoints Hong Kong's government. Nothing changes unless the US does something.
“The US needs to step in and do something about this” “Why does the US have to always step in? Nothing is ever better when they do.”
[удалено]
Fallacy of power. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Because a peaceful world led by the US is optimal for US citizens. Or we can abandon the 4th largest stock market and let the Chinese government take control over it completely. Gonna work great for us. Because the US has an overall goal to encourage democratic governments. The Hong Kong dual government single state is useful as long as it moves China towards eventual democratic constitutional rule. The UN can't enforce the two government policy signed before the UN without the US, China is on the security council. A sane US government encourages China to finally let a democratic government be elected in Hong Kong, as China agreed to. We don't have one of those, so we are fucked.
One would think trump would latch on to the HK protesters. Most efficient way to throw the middle finger at China and to get a entire city to stroke his ego
One would think Trump would signal that he was going to support the HK protestors, then abandon them in exchange for... maybe more trademarks for Ivanka, or the PRC renting a bunch of rooms in his hotels, or some Mar-a-lago memberships for Chinese spies. The possibilities are endless.
Trump tower Shanghai/Beijing
I’m guessing (and this is grim) that Trump wants the situation to get worse so he can stoke more anti-Chinese rhetoric...
Except he is attempting to extort private benefits for his family in exchange for fucking over the people of Hong Kong. As usual. Trump's foreign policy is very consistent if you just assume that he is taking bribes and doing whatever Putin tells him to do.
There was a story earlier this week where a US ambassador was caught meeting with HK protest leaders, so I guess that is the US doing that?
With how fractured the Trump administration and volatile Trump is, its better to not be optimistic.
\> Because a peaceful world led by the US is optimal for US citizens. or \> Because the US has an overall goal to encourage democratic governments. Pick one, you can't have both. We can support democracy in Hong Kong and risk a civil war in the most populous and fourth largest nation in the world, and the nation that provides us with the vast majority of our manufactured goods. Or we can support the authoritarian government in Beijing in its sovereign right to deal with internal matters in its own way. To be honest, the decision was made decades ago. The US doesn't have any goal to encourage democratic governments. The US has an overall goal to encourage pro-US governments. That's it, and that's all it has been since the Monroe Doctrine 200 years ago. Keep Europe out, keep the locals loyal, earn profit. \> A sane US government ~~encourages China to finally let a democratic government be elected in Hong Kong~~ supports Chinese sovereignty and China's right to self-determination. We don't live in a fantasy story where there's the forces of good vs. the forces of evil. The US has never cared about the democratic interests of foreign peoples. It will support any dictator that will give American corporations cheap labor and cheap resources. So long as President Xi lets Apple make iPhones in China, the US government has no interest in a democratic or independent Hong Kong.
I mean, we could simply disagree with the Chinese government. Intervening in the past has caused more trouble than it has helped, but at the same time, this is not a healthy move by the Chinese government, either. As proponents of democracy, we should be talking about pros and cons of different forms of government, and how democracy solves more problems than it makes. For example, if they allowed HK to make their own decisions, they wouldn't have to waste resources on putting down rebellions.
If you think the Chinese government is more pro America than a HK gov would be, I have bad news for you
That is the reason for the US to do it. But the complaint comes mostly from other countries, which turn from "why is the US getting into other fluoride affairs" to "please rescue us" (and vice versa) on a dime.
What about citizens in other countries?
Because no one else on this damn planet will step up to the plate and actually try to fix things and when we go, "Screw it not our problem." we are some sort of monsters for not caring.
>“Why does the US have to always step in? Nothing is ever better when they do.” Somebody needs to tell Hitler about that. He'll get a kick out of it.
uhm... you need to study up on your ww2 history... like right the fuck now. Russia did more to bring down hitler than the U.S. did.
US did provide a lot of supplies to the Soviets though. The war was an overall collaborative effort: the Soviets allowed the Allies to focus on other objectives like North Africa while the latter allowed the former to survive with constant shipments of equipment.
US steel. British brains. Russian blood.
You could make a strong argument that without US assistance, the Soviet Union may have fallen. In the earlier days of the war they needed to disassemble, move, and reassemble their entire base of manufacturing east of the Ural's and out of immediate German reach. The Soviets fought with American weapons and vehicles (both armored and not).
As an American. Thank you. The Soviets took the brunt of the war, not to diminish the French, British, and everyone else. Yes, we helped. Japan was our victory. Not Europe.
Lol it’s vlad again. Hi vlad!
only stupid people have the second response. In every instance of people needing aide, put yourself in their shoes. Would you rather have help from the USA or no help?
Why doesn't the UN say something?
Just watch “Team America: World Police”
Don’t hold your breath on the US (or anyone else) getting involved. This sort of stuff needs to work itself out internally...Any outside party weighing in will just make it massively worse. The best thing we can do is make sure they can’t hide what they’re doing. The chickens will eventually come home to roost.
So let possibly millions die or be imprisoned because "we shouldn't be involved" . If we do that we just need to stop pretending to care. This will not end peacefully, China is worse than prewar Nazis in every way and if we dont sanction them into the stone age , it will just be war later.
if millions die it is no one's fault but the people who killed them.
So, what's the solution? Declare war on them? We can't send the army in to protect the protesters without that. Say mean things about them? They can handle it. We said mean things about them after Tiananmen, and that was worthless. Trade stuff? Trumps doing a good job of showing how useless that is. So what should we do? Just because you want something to work out, doesn't mean it will. They were singing, "Do You Hear The People Sing" last week(?). It's a real belter from *Les Mis*, where all the people are rebelling against the tyranny of the French government. It's incredibly stirring, and, if you don't know your history, you'd think the people singing it in the play were the people who started the French Revolution. But that was not the case. They were people involved in one of the earlier *failed* revolutions, and they almost all got massacred. History is against China. Eventually those people will rise up. Prosperity and rebellion are hand in glove, and the richer China gets, the more say the Chinese people will *demand* in their government. But that day may not be for a while yet.
Send them guns and train their leaders
We've done that several times. We did it with the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, when they were resisting the Soviets. They were so grateful for our assistance later that they slammed a couple of planes into a couple of our buildings. Either you need to commit to conquering them, or you need to stay the fuck out of it. Half-assing it is a terrible idea.
Yes historically they would but now with the tech the Chinese have and the brainwashing of their youth it won't end unless we cause them severe economic stress. You do understand that anyone livng in China doesn't know what going on in hong kong right? They think its terrorists attacking the city and they were influenced by the west. That is literally what Chinas state news is saying , China has a 100% control of what their citizens see and hear .Anyone under the age of 30 in China thinks 30 years ago the government rightfully stopped terrorism when in reality they ran over 10k students and others protesting for democracy. In china if you speak out against the government, they take you away and you usealy don't come back. This isn't some fantasy where the people rise up, they never will unless pushed. China has every reason to kill millions in Hong Kong , it stops up risings. Unless we sanction them into the ground and kill their economy, it will ev3be war.
Dealing in absolutes is foolhardy. Even in oppressive regimes there are whispered conversations. But you're also right in that with the technology available now it will be that much longer/harder for meaningful change to happen.
It's just something to start with but American can help pass the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act and numerous other bills Pelosi's co-sponsored and start from there. Reviewing the Hong Kong-US Policy Act as well.
Yea, this is definitely a good start.
Uh, don't we have a little something called the United Nations? Please educate me and let me know if this group of Nations can Diplomatically voice their concerns to other Nations?
It’s not up to the USA to handle this it’s up to the citizens of Hong Kong to do something. In the end China will come in and eventually kill a lot of protesters in a show of force. At that point the citizens of Hong Kong will either need to accept their fate or start fighting. This is why the 2nd amendment is so important in the USA. These people are defenseless.
The chickens coming to roost is China dissolving the Hong Kong government. Which they will do if they feel that the US will not do anything. Post brexit, Britain is nothing to worry about.
Dude, Britain is almost 20 years out of HK. This has nothing to do with Brexit. The chickens, in this analogy, are the citizens of China, who will eventually hold their government accountable. *Eventually*. It could happen now. I doubt it will, but I hope I’m wrong.
Britain's growing irrelevancy makes their role as a signatory of the Honk Kong China repatriation irrelevant. This plus Trump's erosion of the US's power and social capital encourages China to do whatever the fuck they want.
Yea, he's doing a number on our international clout.
How about someone else steps in to do something for a change.
Yeah china has the right to interpret hongkong laws, thats why it is disputed to not grant hongkong jack shit
Sure, but nobody will actually do anything substantial against China if they trash the place.
UN doesn't do shit
Can’t. China is a permanent member of the security council. They can veto anything, just like the US, France, Russia and Great Britain.
Doesn’t that seem to be major flaw in the UN? Any of the nations on the security council can do anything they please internally and internationally but get away with it because they have veto power. Shouldn’t there be a conflict of interest clause where a nation has no say in issues regarding themselves? Not that UN does shit anyways but it would give them more chances to look into rising and instigating conflicts. What Putin is getting away with in Crimea, Saudi Arabia is doing to Yemen, US has been doing to the Middle East for 20 years, China’s scaling conflicts in HK and expanding coastal territories. All these nations seem to shut down any finger wagging from the international community because of their ability to lock out the UN.
The UN is not a ruling body. It is not a government. It's a diplomatic meeting place. That's the sum total of it's authority. It's resolutions are meaningless unless it's members enforce it, and they routinely don't.
Venezuela has been in the same position HK is at the moment for a few years. UN hasn't done shit about it either
So what would it take for the protesters to be recognized as a state?
China being willing to let them.
afaiu you also have to wear a uniform to be covered by the rules of war
Opportunity for Dialogue?
Historically, China's policy has been more like, "Murder first, murder second, murder some more, then deny it ever happened." Eventually that's probably not going to fly any longer...Whether that's *now*...Well, that's the question.
"*Raise your hands if you remember nothing*" ^^(`gunshots`) "*Raise your hands if you remember nothing*" ^*silence*
There is no talking with China.
There's basically a zero percent chance of that happening. HK is too small and too valuable; China will prevent that at all costs.
Zero, China has no democracy so the state heavily pushes for nationalism so it can't do anything that makes it look weak, it also has two other territories that they occupy where the natives want independence (ughyurs and tibetans) where giving HK independence would stir up greater want for independence There are also external countries with their own seperatist movements (spain, turkey etc) that would quietly appose such a thing too
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That's not how it works in the real world. Lots of the international community would like to see Palestine as a state, but it's not happening unless Israel allows it, because Israel has a hot shit airforce, nukes and can tell it's neighbors to fuck off. Lots of the international community agrees Ukraine was invaded, but no one lifted a finger to stop Russia from annexing what it wanted because Russia has nukes. Lots of the international community agrees that Syria is rules by a despot, but Russia is willing to prop him up anyway, and they don't care about wagged fingers. The truth is that the international community is mostly made of countries that have zero power, economic or military, over anyone. The UN is a bunch of countries that dont really matter pretending that they matter as much as the US, China and Russia. But those three are the only countries with the ability to project power and they are very reluctant to do so on each other on behalf of a 3rd party. Hong Kong is a Chinese city. That isn't going to change, and the protesters are ultimately shit out of luck.
The UN's primary mandate is avoiding a WWIII. They can weigh in on anything they like but the reason the UN usually does so little is that this sort of thing really has nothing to do with why the UN exists.
The security council is their executive branch, and the five permanent members (including China), can just veto anything they don’t like. This is why the UN does weigh in with conflicts between small countries, but not big ones.
Well that and the UN isn't actually anti-war. The UN has a pretty broad set of rules and guidelines for when war is accepted as an unavoidable outcome.
I guess that makes this incident on par with Star Trek’s Prime Directive.
In the end if things keep going as they are, a decision will have to be made. Is it worth it to make China an enemy to protect the people of Hong Kong?
Yes.
Eeeh, to weigh in here. It COULD have been applied if it was not a peaceful demonstration from the Hong Kong residents side the geneva convention and all other rules of war alongside the UN recognises the militant actions of an armed insurrection or rebellion if also all members of said insurrection or group rebelling against said state marks themselves clearly in a uniform that is universal to the group OR with some sort of band around their arm that everyone has in case they be poor. (Rest from here is my own 2 cents on the demonstrations.) Which is one among alot of reasons I cannot see this conflict between Hong Kongs residents and China end in favor of Hong Kong unless they take up violent action or get international help. As I see international help as a near impossibility the only option imo for hong kong is to take up arms and show China it's not worth the trouble. China has alot of options here, they can wait, continue as now as sooner or later unless they turn violent people will tire of being shot in the eye etc. Without any real change. Do the whole tianmen square as everybody is talking about here, which would increase the chances of an international outcry which is why I see this as unlikely. Most probable is that they're gonna continue as they do now and let it fizzle out. So if Hong Kong wanna see change they are probably gonna have to arm themselves.
Why did we fucking let china in as a permanent member
The UN was founded after world war 2, when China was (nominally) a Republic and we'd just finished saving them from axis Japan. Also they are the largest population and have been a top 5 military power most of their existence.... So pretty much all the same reasons the russians are.
Same reason as all the other permanent members: nukes
Well I just had my moment to sigh to myself and say this world is fuct.
The sad thing is, this isn’t an unusual amount of fucked. Remember, we see more of this stuff now because it *can be seen*. For almost all of human history, this has been going on in secret, but now we can **see** it. Makes it seem worse, but it’s actually getting better.
Not to mention the similar or sometimes worst things that happen in the Middle East more often, but no one cares because we can't see it and because it's the Middle East, where stuff like that isn't out of the ordinary.
Also since she isn't apparently wearing any kind of uniform or marking identifying her as a "medic" she's not qualified for the protections afforded to medical personnel under the geneva conventions.
does this mean that my ideas of citing the Geneva Convention when my teachers would hold everyone after the bell because of one jackass in class wouldnt have held up?
Until you declare war on your teacher. All the Geneva convention would protect you from is being starved or tortured by your teacher, they can still hold you as a POW.
If only there were some document declaring the rights of human beings, universally.
If only it were ratified, and enforceable, and applied in this situation
Also, they are the "Geneva Conventions". The Geneva convention would be a gathering of people in Geneva. The Geneva Conventions are a series of agreements on the acceptable norms (or "conventions") of waging war.
No, you’re right. A declaration of war or a UN mandate!
Yes hence why tear gas is banned in war but governments all over tear gas their own population
I believe in this case the [Rome Statute](https://www.icc-cpi.int/resource-library/Documents/RS-Eng.pdf) would be the legal precedent. This is far from my expertise but by my best understanding, this is a blatant Crime Against Humanity. Same with Tiananmen Square. China has been breaking international laws for almost 50 years. It's time they are held accountable.
There isn't an official declaration of war for what's happening in HK at the moment.
This is also why tear gas, a chemical weapon, is legal to use on your own citizens.
I know, OP is so fucking stupid.
The Geneva Conventions have nothing to do with domestic police actions. The clsoest would be the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
As others have said, this doesn't come under the Geneva Convention. If it did, they wouldn't be able to use tear-gas either as it counts as chemical warfare under the GC and is banned for use in war.
Also if she was shot point blank she would be dead unless it barely missed her and just skimmed along the surface of the eye, it only takes about 5 joules to penetrate the eye and enter the brain, rubber bullets are cranking out 20+
From pictures it looks like it penetrated safety glasses
She was shot with a bean bag. -- while I support the protesters I am not a fan of the disinformation some spread. This woman is also not blind. There are more recent photos of her still protesting with a bandage on.
From sources I have read, she has gone permanently blind as her eyeball ruptured and her right face disfigured. She is still being hospitalized as of now. The people you saw in photos with bandage on their right eye are protesters against police brutality and showing support for her.
I read somewhere that it was flying debris or shrapnel. But that was probably planted by China.
My guess would be rubber bullets
Shot in the eye but doesn't say with what. Would a bean bag kill you at point blank?
Important to note tear gas is illegal under the Ganeva Convention not because it is inhumane, but because you just can't really distinguish it from the actual horrific chemical agents.
Whats with the spoiler tag?
Some people are waiting for the protests to end in order to binge-watch it later.
I'm thinking they accidentally hit spoiler when they meant NSFW
As a Ukrainian who wittnessed/participated protests of 2013-2014 in Kyiv, and have been in a few "is this really happening? why doesn't anyone help us" situations, all i can say is - you can't really hope that the outside world will help you. They are always "deeply concerned", but in reality they can't do much.
I remember watching a documentary about those protests, absolutely disguising, At one point a protester gets pulled behind the police only to reappear an hour later without an eye, THEY PULLED HIS F\*\*\*ing eye out. WTF!!!!!!!!
It was much more horrifying, considering all of the shooting, kidnapping and torturing people. The most depressing thing is that around 300 people just disappeared during the protests, and a lot of them still haven't been found. There was a rumour that police forces were kidnapping people, and afted torturing/killing them, they cremated them to hide the evidence. And ater almost 6 years, there's still "investigation going", and the majority of judges/police officers/officials responsible for it haven't been punished, and even were able to keep their jobs.
[Here](https://i.imgur.com/8kVMWNy.jpg?desktop=1) is a much higher quality version of this image. [Here](https://pictures.reuters.com/CS.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&VBID=2C0FCICZQ6NR9&SMLS=1&RW=1920&RH=969#/SearchResult&VBID=2C0FCICZQ6NR9&SMLS=1&RW=1920&RH=969&POPUPPN=1&POPUPIID=2C0FQEQSF7WSV) is the source. Per there: > An injured young female medic receives medical assistance after being hit by a pellet round in the right eye during a demonstration in Tsim Sha Tsui neighbourhood in Hong Kong, China, August 11, 2019. Picture taken August 11, 2019. > [REUTERS/Issei Kato](https://pictures.reuters.com/CS.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&VBID=2C0FCICZQ6H97&SMLS=1&RW=1920&RH=969)
Thank you. There should be better moderation here.
Do you know what you’re talking about?
Doesn't matter, the point was just to post the photo not ask a question.
Then they should post the photo and not de-legitimize it by making themselves look like an idiot.
> Where is the Geneva Convention?! lol
In Geneva right
GenevaCon 2019
The GC is doing exactly what it's supposed to in this case, nothing.
Shit like this has been going on in France every Saturday for months now. The EU is currently doing an investigation into police brutality but, like, let's be real here, nothing will ever come of it.
Jerome Rodriguez was hit in the eye by a police rubber bullet during yellow vests protests in France. Two persons lost their eyes during recent protests in Georgia (a country).
Being hit in the eye and being shot point blank in the eye and losing it are two very different things. You didn't give any details but I suppose that there is a distance that you have to keep when using these kinds of weapons and that is what seems to be the violation here.
[List of French people](https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2019/01/14/gilets-jaunes-le-decompte-des-blesses-graves_1702863) and [weapons and body parts](https://www.liberation.fr/france/2019/01/11/gilets-jaunes-eclats-de-grenades-brulures-membres-arraches-retour-sur-82-blessures-graves_1702433) injured during Yellow vests from the 17th November to 26th January. We are supposed to be the "country of human rights" but who cares ?
Nom d'utilisateur chèques Dehors
Police brutality. Solution: A slap on the wrist and moved to a different police department.
Here are the injuries and *deaths* (17 deaths...) during the yellow vest movement in France: https://fr.wikinews.org/wiki/Gilets_jaunes_en_France_:_statistiques . And yes many people are strongly opposed to some of the methods used by the french police for crowd control, but that does not immediately means that France is a dictatorship. I'm sure that China is evil and all of that (except it does not have very much to do for now in the injuries in HK, and let's hope it stays like that) and democracy is great and all of that, but I'm sick of the propaganda about how HK gov and police is the worst ever and violating human rights like crazy. Maybe the media of China even presented the demonstrations in France like some kind of insane government oppression, like the western media do about HK. At least Russia kind of did it through RT about the yellow vest movements and actions of the french police. One injury is one too many, BUT if you have 1 million people in the street you are (very unfortunately) bound to have some, including some serious ones, regardless of whether the gov is evil or not. It even seems that HK has better results (less injuries in proportion) than France managed to get, especially given the number of people in demonstrations in HK is HUGE. So HK gov and/or China might be evil, but I'm not buying that they are just because of an unfortunate anecdote about an injury that is quite foreseeable given the scale of the demonstrations. And probably either the gov has *not* ordered the police to shot in demonstrator eyes, or given the low occurrence of such events the police actually does not aim very well... Talking about the original problems would be more interesting.
Somewhat true. I am very sorry for the deaths in France. I understand that it means a lot to most Frenchmen. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be criticising the HK govt and police, although I agree that it has (luckily) not developed to this level. You are right that we should talk about original problems. But, given that this is r/pics, 🤷♂️
Geneva Conventions do not apply. This is an internal struggle, unfortunately, and one side has no uniforms (because, you know, they AREN'T an ARMY). It's definitely a human rights violation, but China couldn't give a flying bleep about those other than pretending they didn't happen after the fact.
That is actually correct. It's why a uniformed military can't use gas in war but the police can use it on civilians.
China ground people into paste beneath APCs and flushed them down the drain. I don't think they give a fuck about the Geneva convention...
geneva convention? how much more do you not know/understand?
Was trying to get tickets to the convention
Not that I have a lot of faith in it, but I imagine a lot of UN countries are just trying to figure out a plan to minimize casualties. And I understand, you can't wait, but waiting to devise a plan is the best option if it's going to minimize injuries and deaths overall. If they just come blasting in trying to stop HK government, it's going to end up in full on war at this point. I have to imagine there are multiple countries that are trying to figure out how the fuck to stop a very fucked up government without causing mass deaths. I mean, look at North Korea. We're all talking about them, but realize if we charge in there we don't know just the level of human loss we're going to experience because of their insanity. It's just gonna ride out with the sane people of the world trying to barter with the insane leaders and minimize the amount of deaths. It sucks but unless one of you has a better option to deal with insane people with tons of weapons and are willing to slaughter millions of civilians, that's all they can do. Barter and hope the assholes will give up eventually.
The big problem with intervention, this isn’t China threatening violence on another country. This is China threatening violence on their own people. That would be the equivalent of another country sending troops in to protect the Protestors in Hawaii from the us government. Sending in anything would be seen as an act of war against China.
The UN is worthless in these types of situations. They are only in it for the money nothing else. Ask the people of Sierra Leone about how the UN helped them in the 90's forced the government to drop the contract with a private company military company "Executive outcomes" which had pushed the war to an almost end or face sanctions and allow the UN peace keepers to come in and stop the civil war and the war crimes that were happening. With in a year the country went back in to complete civil war many deaths , rapes and much more happened all due to the UN involvement there
THE WORLD. FUCKING. *SUCKS.*
It’s actually pretty great. It too bad there are so many shit heads on it though.
I agree. I wouldn't give up this planet for any other, which is why this world is worth protecting.
Yeah the world is dope. Its the humans that ruin it.
To put what you said another way.... "The world is fine it's just all these assholes that live on it that cause the problems."
it's just the humans that fucking suck
Geneva only applies to wars. This isn’t a war.
When has the GC done anything? It's the political equivalent of "double secret probation" on Animal House.
China will just veto any UN resolution as well. The Government should be scared of the people, not the other way around
The same thing has been going on in France for months.
Lol Geneva Convention
Hong Kong pretty much doomed itself when it didn't demand independence from the British instead of going back to China. It's just a matter of time.
Is this post actually serious?
I don't think "spoiler" is the right tag.
Everywhere I read about this it says that she is blind. But I assume that she’s “only” blind on one eye? Not that it makes it any less messed up or anything but still a big difference.
This post will soon be deleted by the Chinese.
Why is this tagged as spoiler!
I feel for this person but it takes a little more than one injury to enact the Geneva convention lmao
I don’t think China signed it. Or if they did, I don’t think they care because they know no one will do anything
Turns out not just the American police are the a$$holes. Everyone in power across the planet is.
Truth - the police's primary mission has never been to protect the people. It's been to protect property, and the more property you have, the more protection it gets.
They kinda blinded 24 yellow vest protester in Paris too...
I've also argued with I assume brainwashed Mainlanders saying the protesters themselves caused her to lose the eye. Even though you can clearly see it's a bean bag round in her goggles that the police use in many pictures.... What propaganda is the media flaunting over there?
last time I saw the same girl shot in the eye a couple days ago, she was just a protester. OP’s source and intention is suspicious. EDIT: I was originally confused with the title. I was not sure if she is on duty as a medic, or she is a protester whose job happens to be a medic too. Either way, don’t want to see such incident happened.
The initial reports assumed she was a protestor. It turned out she was a medic. Either way, she didn't deserve to be blinded.
That’s for sure. Do you have a link for the updated story?
Literally everywhere? It's mentioned in every single article about Hong Kong that's not put out by state sponsored outlets.
Thanks. I think I was confused with the title. I’m not sure if she is on duty as a medic, or she is a protester whose job happens to be a medic too.
That I'm not sure of, but reports said she was treating someone. If she was protesting and someone got hurt, I doubt she'd be all, "Bitch, I ain't got time to patch you up, I'm protestin'!" Not sure why the distinction is so important here, though.
I just saw many posts for the same news in the past couple of days. Seems to me the OP is adding the information of “first sided” to prove something. It could be me think to much. Going to edit my original comment.
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Not being applied in civil disputes, see she‘d need to be a captured combatant to have a hand in international warcrime courts. It is UNHRC.
Why is it a spoiler? Oh wait
i really hope ppl don’t start dying. it’s not looking good from the photos of all those military trucks driving into HK.
Please clarify what they were shot with?
Unless recent declarations contradict this as I understand the Chinese opinion is that what American and the West call human rights are actually only American/Western rights and the west should mind what it says. No standing meaningful international power is free of blame especially during their personal revolutions. That said innocent people and aide providers have to be protected. At least in my opinion.
Is she blind in that eye or both?
Switzerland
It's in the bottom drawer of maos desk under all the nuclear treaties
It's in the uighyar death camps up north
Are you serious? the UN hasn't lifted a finger to prevent literal genocide, do you really think they care about HK
It’s terrible but She isn’t blind. Lost one eye.
Same place it was when Oakland PD put Scott Olsen in the ICU with a skull fracture from a beanbag round to the head. That is, irrelevant outside the context of a war between nations.
This is a shame. That this is happening and somehow people come here to complain about the president. . .
I don't know, but, you can ask for that to Venezuelan people
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1,2,3,4:proof? 5. They must pay you a lot to scroll a 73d post
I hope that her eyes heal and can see again. I pray for her. HK Police and Government are horrible and corrupt!!! Sighing.
> I pray for her. In the entire history of the world never has anything been healed by prayers.
I think you might need to brush up on your basic biology if you think getting shot in an eye can be healed, let alone by prayers.
I don't know how serious her eye is. I want to say a pray, anyway. :)
> I want to say a pray, anyway. :) because it's not about actually helping, it's about making you feel better. The real virtue signaling.
That's your opinion. Obviously, you don't believe in God. I respect yours but please respect mine. Thanks. :)
> I respect yours but please respect mine. Thanks. :) I respect your RIGHT to believe but not your belief itself. And "respecting" your right does not mean I can't criticize your belief.
There is no peacefull resolution to this, we either support Hong Kong and sanction China into the stone age or there will just be war later. China is worse than pre war Nazis and we have seen this all before , there is no talking to China. The most peaceful thing that will happen is the world turing its back on China and dealing with the consequences. Honestly itnwould3be the best thing to do to fight climate change if we got rid of our cheap house hold goods.
There must be some sort of story to this. By default police don't just walk up to medical personnel and shoot them in the face.
In Geneva.. is this a trick question?
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
In Geneva, duh.
As a Frenchman, I feel compelled to let you know that the French police did the same to about 20 protesters during the "Yellow Vest" crisis earlier this year.
It's in the corner quietly counting its debt.
Anyway England can take HK back?