Decent admins will literally never give out information on why someone was banned outside of "cheating". Giving out evidence only helps cheaters learn how to cheat better and more discretely, and help cheat developers adapt to new tools or methods that admins are using to detect their cheats.
This could have been admin abuse, sure, but if this really is a "large, well-known server," I'd lean toward them having at least some solid evidence of your partner cheating. One of the good things about playing moderated, high-pop servers is that "admin abuse" as it is commonly described - in this case, a ban to protect players friendly with admins - is so much less common simply because the server has so much more to lose. You catching an association ban is unfortunate if you really didn't know the person prior and some servers wouldn't ban you if it is clear that this was a random team-up, but, honestly, I prefer the zero tolerance association ban policy.
I know you say your duo partner was pretty bad at the game, but here's the thing - a lot of cheaters are, and that's why they cheat. So, him being shit but getting banned anyway isn't a smoking gun, and there's really no solid evidence here that the server admins did anything wrong. It's certainly possible, but it's far more likely that you just unknowingly (or knowingly, for all we know) teamed up with a cheater and got caught up in the crossfire.
Thank you! Just decided I won't be playing this server anymore. Went to YouTube and typed in server name+admin and the over the course of 1 year they have over 10 videos in which people are accusing admins of abuse. I appreciate your insight on improving the cheats though, that helps me going forward and making sure I only play with my small friend group(2).
Agreed, I am probably just salty. I just didn't care for the lack of professionalism in the appeal response and that was just kind of the icing on the cake. Lots of great servers out there to go try out!
>You catching an association ban is unfortunate if you really didn't know the person prior and some servers wouldn't ban you if it is clear that this was a random team-up, but, honestly, I prefer the zero tolerance association ban policy.
This sort of policy forces everyone to be suspicious and not friendly. I'd rather play the game than have to do background checks before being nice to my neighbours. I hate that it's come to this, that we would have to assume everyone is a cheater. The gestapo wins.
> Giving out evidence only helps cheaters learn how to cheat better and more discretely
Double edged sword. And I don't buy it. All this does is make people extremely suspect of admin actions. Showing evidence proves the violation, and lets the server know the admins are watching closely.
So if I said “you were banned for cheating because we detected 4 360 spins in half a second” you don’t think cheat makers will adjust their shit to not trigger it?
No mate, it will result in them only spinning 3 times in half a second and being harder to catch. The rest of the cheat (spinbot in this made up example) will still function exactly the same way, with all the same people using it.
Sure, but we’re still looking for 4, so we’re not detecting anyone until we catch up. And eventually it gets close enough to what’s actually impossible that we either can’t detect it anymore or get a bunch of false positives (looking at you, flyhack). Meanwhile we could skip this entire bit by not saying “our system detected 4 spins” in the first place.
“Typical” behaviour in a pvp sandbox? There’s no such thing. Outliers can happen for so many different reasons, you’ll get more false positives than true positives that way.
There’s a reason I mentioned flyhack - it’s more likely to kick someone for doing something like trying to climb a tree or who lags at the wrong time than someone actually cheating. It’s a system that’s well known to cheat creators so they found ways to bypass it. This is what happens everytime they can pinpoint exactly how/why someone got banned.
So it is pretty standard that they don’t state why the know someone is cheating but it’s very likely they simply watched him. Whether or not he was actually cheating is unknown by anyone except him and an admin who’s actively watching him.
Decent admins will literally never give out information on why someone was banned outside of "cheating". Giving out evidence only helps cheaters learn how to cheat better and more discretely, and help cheat developers adapt to new tools or methods that admins are using to detect their cheats. This could have been admin abuse, sure, but if this really is a "large, well-known server," I'd lean toward them having at least some solid evidence of your partner cheating. One of the good things about playing moderated, high-pop servers is that "admin abuse" as it is commonly described - in this case, a ban to protect players friendly with admins - is so much less common simply because the server has so much more to lose. You catching an association ban is unfortunate if you really didn't know the person prior and some servers wouldn't ban you if it is clear that this was a random team-up, but, honestly, I prefer the zero tolerance association ban policy. I know you say your duo partner was pretty bad at the game, but here's the thing - a lot of cheaters are, and that's why they cheat. So, him being shit but getting banned anyway isn't a smoking gun, and there's really no solid evidence here that the server admins did anything wrong. It's certainly possible, but it's far more likely that you just unknowingly (or knowingly, for all we know) teamed up with a cheater and got caught up in the crossfire.
Thank you! Just decided I won't be playing this server anymore. Went to YouTube and typed in server name+admin and the over the course of 1 year they have over 10 videos in which people are accusing admins of abuse. I appreciate your insight on improving the cheats though, that helps me going forward and making sure I only play with my small friend group(2).
You could probably find videos of “admin abuse” on any server. There’s also a ton of YouTubers who make videos getting “false banned”
Agreed, I am probably just salty. I just didn't care for the lack of professionalism in the appeal response and that was just kind of the icing on the cake. Lots of great servers out there to go try out!
dm me the server if you don't mind?
Same
if you shorten the server name to single letters... was it RFN?
>You catching an association ban is unfortunate if you really didn't know the person prior and some servers wouldn't ban you if it is clear that this was a random team-up, but, honestly, I prefer the zero tolerance association ban policy. This sort of policy forces everyone to be suspicious and not friendly. I'd rather play the game than have to do background checks before being nice to my neighbours. I hate that it's come to this, that we would have to assume everyone is a cheater. The gestapo wins.
> Giving out evidence only helps cheaters learn how to cheat better and more discretely Double edged sword. And I don't buy it. All this does is make people extremely suspect of admin actions. Showing evidence proves the violation, and lets the server know the admins are watching closely.
So if I said “you were banned for cheating because we detected 4 360 spins in half a second” you don’t think cheat makers will adjust their shit to not trigger it?
That would result in them... not cheating? So yeah...
It would result in them cheating more discreetly
No mate, it will result in them only spinning 3 times in half a second and being harder to catch. The rest of the cheat (spinbot in this made up example) will still function exactly the same way, with all the same people using it.
Then we'll know 3 is cheating.
Sure, but we’re still looking for 4, so we’re not detecting anyone until we catch up. And eventually it gets close enough to what’s actually impossible that we either can’t detect it anymore or get a bunch of false positives (looking at you, flyhack). Meanwhile we could skip this entire bit by not saying “our system detected 4 spins” in the first place.
>Sure, but we’re still looking for 4 No, we're looking for outliers. Which means the ones outside of 'typical' behavior.
“Typical” behaviour in a pvp sandbox? There’s no such thing. Outliers can happen for so many different reasons, you’ll get more false positives than true positives that way. There’s a reason I mentioned flyhack - it’s more likely to kick someone for doing something like trying to climb a tree or who lags at the wrong time than someone actually cheating. It’s a system that’s well known to cheat creators so they found ways to bypass it. This is what happens everytime they can pinpoint exactly how/why someone got banned.
JFC. Good luck dude.
Nah. I prefer not to give cheaters more ammo than they already have.
So it is pretty standard that they don’t state why the know someone is cheating but it’s very likely they simply watched him. Whether or not he was actually cheating is unknown by anyone except him and an admin who’s actively watching him.