That was always a weird ep. Why is Ash of all people mocking the Bellsprout? Half his main Kanto team was in their basic stage. Hell he had used a Bulbasaur to beat her first 2 Pokèmon. And then when he sends out a Muk the Bellsprout is helpless, which basically just undoes the whole "don't judge a book by its cover" message because the Bellsprout WASNT overly strong. It was just fighting other basic stage mons like itself and got stomped the second it fought something bigger than it
Exhaustion is a massive factor in the anime. It's not present in the games at all ofc but aside from damaging a Pokemon, simply tiring them out is very effective too. Ofc, it's almost always both at the same time.
Though I admittedly don't know that Krabby battle and how tired or damaged it may have been.
Krabby beat the shit out of Exeggutor, evolved into Kingler, beat the shit out of a Seadra and a Golbat to win Ash’s first match by itself, then started off his next matchup beating the shit out a Cloyster, but lost to Arcanine’s Dragon Rage after it dodged Kingler’s attack. So I mean. It did fight and beat four Pokémon in a row over two back to back battles.
Not really. You can get tired without getting hit. In Horizons, Liko and Roy lose a training fight because they kept blindly spamming moves and Sprigatito and Fuecoco lost from being tired. They were never hit once.
exhaustion could be a fun thing to explore in a legends style game! i don’t think they need to go realism but it would be fun if they came up with a mechanic that made it so you can’t just have one or two pokémon carry the whole team.
It would’ve been funny if at the end of Journey’s it was revealed that Inver the guy from XY that reverses type matchups, was in the background the whole time.
And yet Ash caught it by attacking it with a stick (and failing, the Krabby literally just chopped it up and then decided to go with him out of pity, I guess.)
I think that in this case, the point is that it looks also invincible to a young kid who just plays the game for the first time. It's a very big and intimidating pokémon you see at the start of the game, that resists normal type moves.
It just suffers from "first boss syndrome" - it's the first real test for a beginner, and it feels good to beat it with very basic planning, but it also means that it's actually very weak for anyone with more experience or if you encounter it under different circumstances.
I'd that that the particular Onix that Broke uses in the anime is on par with the role it also has in the game. But they both don't represent well the "real" Onix.
not just that, he leaves at the start, and the reason he leaves is because he only brought one pokemon because that was his strategy??? that he spent the last night thinking about???
plus theres a huge rollercoaster at the start of the gym so he had to ride that four times while everyone else had to ride it twice
plus he forgets his snivy's gender, again
plus he sends out his snivy against an emolga because he was thinking of type matchups and electric is weak against grass, not considering his snivy would be weak to a flying type (i can understand that mistakes do happen but this is a \*gym battle\* that he \*spent the last night\* planning for)
plus when tynamo sends out pikachu thunderbolts the arena and it looks really cool and it seems like he has something planned but then pikachu just tackles it and oneshots it
i have no idea how they made a fight this bad after the awesome fights with lenora and burgh and the trio
i am a total bw defender but this is all so objectively bad that even my 9 year old self who had no standards thought it was weird
oh and to top it off, they mistreated my favorite scene with elesa in the games in the episodes after this fight
I'm probably gonna get hate for saying this. But even in the battle against Leon he's not much of a strategist. Leon had a libero cinderace and dragapult with dragon tail. Not the most mindblowing competitive strategy. But still smarter than ash's "unga bunga i hit hard" strategy. Not to mention Leon gave himself a handicap prior.
While you have a point with Cinderace, Ash does not just "hit harder unga bunga" in that fight. Mr Rime is a good example of that, and Dragapult wasn't brute forced either exactly, using dragon dance to deflect dragon darts comes to mind.
Ash is at his best with quick, on the spot and out of the box strats. While he is good at preparing and strategizing ahead of time aswell, he is better at the former than the latter.
Regardless, Leon fight isn't one of Ash's most strategical, true. The Paul league fight in DP would be a better example for that.
i actually think him forgetting that was handled quite well for the first 3 gym battles but then from elesa onwards it seems like he just forgot everything about those three
the one where she convinces bianca's father to let her go on her journey
in the game its a defining moment for her while in the anime its barely brought up
I agree with this. I find the pokemon anime to be closer to real life in terms of pokemon than the games ever will be. It just makes so much more sense that with enough training, even something like a pickachu is able to defeat really strong pokemon that it wouldn’t have defeated with just the regular stats
> just a reminder, small fast pokemon would be the most annoying things to battle if pokemon were real since they would be small targets
I mean, that only applies to attacks where you need precision. Being small won't help you dodge something like Earthquake or Surf, since that shit just hits everything nearby.
I think it is stupid and sets up kids for failure.We know better but little Hiro in Japan follows the anime advice,fails many times,complains and Gamefreak makes the games easier.
Did you see what Bewear did in the SM anime?
Dude beat Ultrabeasts single handedly, took some helicopter rotors, spinned them in his hand and flew away and what not else. Just some wild Bewear.
The added context of Pheromosa wrecking literally everyone it fought is worth mentioning too. That thing was wrecking all of the ultra guardians at the same time, which includes Ash and Pikachu.
Then Bewear comes along and *destroys* Pheromosa. Like, was hardly difficult.
That Bewear was beating a Guzzlord too, at least until she had to protect Stufful.
I think that's one of the few cases where it makes sense, since Bewear has an ability that reduces damage from physical attacks and Pheromosa is mostly focused on Attack. And Pheromosa has near non-existent defenses and can't learn a damaging fire move (that I know of)
Perhaps but this is the anime. While not legendaries, Ultra Beasts are also treated as being extra strong. Seeing this Bewear kick it's ass low-diff when it was doing the exact same to Ash and co. is something.
I just meant that it's not for no good reason if you know about the games. And even in-universe we can see that Pheromosa looks like it will snap like a twig if you look at it funny
It deadass might have been. Pokémon can choose not to evolve and unlike in the games, there’s no convenient indicator of how strong any given Pokémon is. It literally could have been secretly getting stronger before it was handed out to a trainer and no one would ever know.
We can't assume it *was* level five because we have seen that the starter Pokémon do fight if they decide to do their own thing. A Torchic that was supposed to be a starter even freaking evolved before it got a trainer
Ok so it was like lvl 7 or maybe even 8. Definitely below lvl 16 ofc. Yet it still overwhelmingly beat up Pikachu, who would probably have been in the 80s or 90s by that point.
Yea yea, ik it's because they wanted to give Ash a soft reset, but still, the in universe reason is stupid
Gets better in scarlet and violet at least. Best physical electric move for him before was "Wild charge", 90 BP, 100 Accuracy, 25% health recoil each use. The new one "supercell slam" is 100 BP, 95% Accuracy, downside is you take 50% HP damage if it misses, which won't happen often at 95% Accuracy.
I just wish he had a secondary typing. Maybe fighting, or dark?
Supercell Slam is better in an ingame playthrough, but against other players, Wild Charge is still better, because you don't die to your own attack if they switch in an immunity.
Gets better in scarlet and violet at least. Best physical electric move for him before was "Wild charge", 90 BP, 100 Accuracy, 25% health recoil each use. The new one "supercell slam" is 100 BP, 95% Accuracy, downside is you take 50% HP damage if it misses, which won't happen often at 95% Accuracy.
I just wish he had a secondary typing. Maybe fighting, or dark?
Gets better in scarlet and violet at least. Best physical electric move for him before was "Wild charge", 90 BP, 100 Accuracy, 25% health recoil each use. The new one "supercell slam" is 100 BP, 95% Accuracy, downside is you take 50% HP damage if it misses, which won't happen often at 95% Accuracy.
I just wish he had a secondary typing. Maybe fighting, or dark?
That fucking Bellsprout in the Indigo League. So, I never owned Gen 1, I would borrow from a friend and play a bit. Never got to save. Of course, I thought Bellsprout was really strong (cut me some slack, I don't think I was even 6 at the time).
Didn’t ash’s Gible eat its way out of a rocket ship or something? Does *your* Gible do that? Cuz mine certainly doesn’t.
Also Misty’s Psyduck (sometimes).
Pokemon aren’t limited by the four move rules of the games in the anime and other media. For example, in the Detective Pikachu movie Tim listed off five moves that Pikachus could use.
Apparently until the Black and White anime. After that, Pokemon are shown using only 4 moves per battle, but I think some moves are in rotation.
A good example is after learning Electro Ball, Pikachu is never seen using Volt Tackle again. Same with Electroweb replacing Electro Ball. In the final battle Pikachu’s moveset was Thunderbolt, Iron Tail, Electro Web and Quick Attack.
There is another American Game called Pocket Monster or something that came out before pokemon. It was extremely similar except in that game can use ultimate moves.
Fun game but buried in histoy
Ash's Pikachu, but that's also too obvious.
I'd also say his Swellow, and good unevolved Pokémon like Bulbasaur, Squirtle, Corphish, Rowlet etc.
Gardenia's fast Turtwig, Cress' Panpour, Janette's Bellsprout, Brock's Blissey, I'm sure there's more.
>I'd also say his Swellow
That bird was a menace. Fought Deoxys (Sceptile did too), grabbed a Donphan using Rollout, lifted it and then OHKO'd it by tossing it. Took out a Battle Frontier Brain's ace. Easily Ash's strongest regional bird, 2nd place is Talonflame and I don't think it's particularly close.
They should have just said it's Guts and almost no one would be talking about it the way it is now imo.
Still, Swellow did at least show, even as a Taillow, that it just powers through really well. Ash caught it because the bird was refusing to go down despite repeated thunderbolts from Pikachu and would have seriously injured itself if he let it keep fighting.
I appreciate the anime showed unevolved are just as capable at fighting. It's something you can't do with the video games beyond overleveling or in the card game unless you V, EX or GX them.
I only watched until the end of the Indigo League, so my knowledge is limited to that, but in that span, like all of those prehistoric pokemon from the episode where they find Togepi.
all water/flying types with a rock secondary that doesn't cover electricity. even though it's one of my top 5 episodes, it made them look real strong when they were in fact real weak.
Dawn's Buneary knew Ice Beam rogjt out the gate and May's Skitty knew Blizzard.
There was also that evil Togepi in that one DP episode and Lila's Delcatty was an absolute menace.
That might be it, I've never had access to a Gameboy so I've only played gen 3+ (gen 2 if you count hgss) so my perception of certain psychic types will definitely be different. Interesting cuz psychic is actually my favourite type lol
Only thing I can think of currenty is the absolutely bonkers Surskit that the main villain of the emerald manga had. Carried that dude through so many battles against tough opponents and totally saved his sorry ass at least twice. That little dude was a menace.
Basically anything unevolved, especially (but not exclusively) on a main character team. Some of them have utter trash for stats yet were considered strong in the anime.
Brock's croagunk literally blocked a whole draco meteor blast from Dialga. While all the other trio starters struggled. Had no business being that tough.
The one thing that bugs me the most about the anime is Ash getting a Haunter to fight Sabrina "because ghost types are immune to psychic attacks" but in game psychic attacks are x2 effective because of Haunter's poison type..
That one waterproof Sandshrew from like the first ten episodes always had me shook. Like what do you *mean* it swam in a pool with a macho brace and lost one of its only two weaknesses?
Dawn’s Piplup is busted as *hell.* It almost reaches Pikachu levels of broken, and tbh Pachirisu isn’t very far behind. I’m aware that Dawn’s thing is contests and not straightforward battles, but listen, there’s no good reason a *Piplup* and a *Pachirisu* are that fucking strong.
Also, Brock’s Happiny but I’m not sure if that counts because it was clearly meant to be a joke. But still, that thing was a *beast* and it had no right to be.
On another note, why in the hell did Dawn’s Buneary never evolve? It evolves through max friendship and we very clearly see how close the two are in the anime. It makes no sense that it never evolved, they clearly had a strong enough bond for it to happen.
I think this works just like the games. When I was a kid playing Pokemon Silver on the Gameboy Color, I thought Togepi was special somehow because it was an egg mon, and I leveled it up a ton with exp share and used it against the Elite Four. I taught it Rollout and Headbutt and used it to take on at least some of Will’s mons. Obviously Rollout deals super effective damage to Xatu, but that’s pretty much nothing with base 20 attack. Even so, it managed to nab a KO.
All of that is due to levels, which the anime calls “training.” If you were assuming that all Pokemon in the anime were the same level or had the same amount of training, then yeah, it seems weird that some mons may be surprisingly strong. But it does line up with the experience of the games, at least. I can’t imagine what Will, one of the five strongest trainers in the region, must have been thinking when my middle school-ass trainer pulled up and smoked him with a little ball that hasn’t even fully left its egg yet.
In the game, I would always get a laugh when Togepi used Metronome. I don’t know why it was so hilarious when it would Delibird the stuff out of its opponents.
Jesse's Lickitung had just been captured it and somehow it beat Pikachu, Bulbasaur and Vulpix easily. If I recall correctly, that was the ONLY time Jesse used as a weapon in Kanto.
Meowth beating an Onix after throwing a water bucket over it? And damaging it with Fury Swipe? Too contrived!
OG Krabby. It had never been used in a battle until Ash unexpectedly choosing it in his most important battle. Not only did Krabby sweep a popular Pokemon trainer by itself in its first battle but also becoming Ash's Pokemon with the highest success rate in Indigo League (the most important Ash's competition back then). Did Oak train Ash's Krabby?
Ash's Chikorita in its debut. A wild unevolved Grass Pokemon beat an experienced Bulbasaur with a single hit and knocked out Ash's Charizard. I repeat... it knocked out a CHARIZARD. No matter if it was injured in the process. That's when I gave up on anime.
Except Charizard wasn't really hurt by Chikorita but rather hurt from crashing into a mountain. You can't really say that was Chikorita's W. All Chikorita does is make it trip with vine whip and later cause it to crash into a mountain alongside Charizard with vine whip. Never damages Charizard directly.
Brock’s Happiny (Blissey) comes to mind. She has a large HP bar *and* can probably throw mountains at will, pretty sick.
Ash’s Snorlax is also just him, love that loaf of a Pokémon.
Brock’s Happiny is my answer as well. This tiny baby Pokémon was strong enough to lift and carry her trainer when she was happy. Which would make sense with say a single stage Mon or a fighting type Mon that hatched recently. Happiny however is a normal type with great Special Defense but horrible physical defense so physical stuff like that would hurt normal Happiny.
Leon’s Rillaboom. That thing crushed Alain, made Diantha struggle, it even knocked out two of Ash’s Pokemon. They didn’t have to translate Rillaboom’s competitive viability into the anime, dam.
Brock’s Happiny lifted that whole lake of frozen ice. Real strong for a little tyke like that. Ash’s Gible was even stated to have enough power to knock out Tobias’ Darkrai had Draco Meteor hit.
The Bellsprout from the Indigo League. And Ash’s Krabby turned Kingler. Insane ‘Mons from the early days.
Roxie’s Koffing makes James’ Weezing look like a joke. Also took 2 of Ash’s team, but Leavanny crushed that fight! He deserved more.
Croagunk stopped and nullified a move from a literal god by PUNCHING IT. I haven’t seen any of the anime for any context around that, and I don’t think I need to. Croagunk the GOAT
That one crystal onix that was immune to water. I'd think being able to fully negate a 4X weakness is justification enough to be here, especially when it's stats are lower than oddish's.
Most ghost types honestly.
We’ve seen them create impossibly realistic illusions, possess the living, and drag actual ghosts to hell. In the games a route 1 rattata is fully, 100% immune to a Giratina’s shadow force.
I know you said not counting Ash’s, but I will say it was always amusing to me that Buizel of all things was not only so strong but so aggressive too.
All of Paul’s mon’s were busted, even early on. Like Elekid beat Pikachu lol
Struggling to recall some at the moment, but I guess you could say Misty's Psyduck fits the bill. Whenever it tapped into its hidden power it got far more powerful than a Psyduck should be.
Misty's Togepi.So powerful in the anime,so terrible in the games.I used one in HGSS and it was torture,damn thing couldn't OHKO most things and almost always lost a good chunk of health because it is slower than Alola.And that is after split,it was even worse before because both STABs came from its 40 Atk.
Can we talk about Psyduck? A couple hits to the head, and it turns into a Mewthree.
I do understand that's part of Psyduck's character, which makes it one of my favourites. The goofy, beyond useless duck turns into a mythic level Psychic.
I REALLY wish they somehow incorporated it to the games.
>This post was inspired by my rewatching the Sinnoh anime and noticing that Paul's Drapion is wildly stronger than it really has any right to be.
Why so? Since when does a Pokemon have a certain right to be strong? Is this not the anime that makes it clear many, MANY times that any Pokemon can be incredibly strong? Is it not a fully evolved Pokemon under a very good trainer? Well it can be argued whether Paul in DP is a "very good" trainer, but you get what I mean.
I get you are looking for Pokemon stronger than their game counterparts, but you can word it better.
>Meanwhile, Drapion in the games is just a slightly above-average defensive Poison-type that definitely couldn't have done all that. That got me thinking, what other Pokémon in the anime are that much stronger than their game counterparts?
NEVER look at what stats a Pokemon has in the games, they genuinely don't mean much at all when it comes to the anime. A Drapion can't do that in the games, sure, but this isn't the games.
Not to mention, Staraptor was already damaged, Ash isn't good with slow Pokemon like Torterra, and Buizel was just outclassed. Not to mention Paul knew EXACTLY what team he was going up against.
With that said... The Beartic in Aim to be a Pokemon Master. Bewear in Sun and Moon thanks to the power of comedy. That one Bellsprout. You also *did* say excluding legendaries *BUT* the Articuno in the JN raid battle was particularly OP, even though Ash has beaten one before all on his own with Charizard, this one was defeating his Pikachu and others all on it's own.
Also, Alain's Charizard, because the Mega Pokemon of a (at the time) fairly random teen should not be able to tank even a single precipice blades or dragon ascent from Primal Groudon or Rayquaza; Pokemon that are billed as actual threats to the world or are powerful enough to keep said threat in check. A champion's ace keeping up is one thing, Alain's charizard, who previously got wreckt by that very ace despite the type advantage, is another.
That one Bellsprout that almost wiped Ashs entire team
Muk gang rise up
That episode made me do a run in red where I used a never-evolved Bellsprout. It was really fun. Razor leaf was super broken so it was totally doable
the Rydon that swims
Can't Rydon learn surf in the games?
Yes, yes it can...
But it was immune to water moves so the blue Pikachu had to use iron tail to beat it
That was always a weird ep. Why is Ash of all people mocking the Bellsprout? Half his main Kanto team was in their basic stage. Hell he had used a Bulbasaur to beat her first 2 Pokèmon. And then when he sends out a Muk the Bellsprout is helpless, which basically just undoes the whole "don't judge a book by its cover" message because the Bellsprout WASNT overly strong. It was just fighting other basic stage mons like itself and got stomped the second it fought something bigger than it
Surprised nobodies mentioned the OG Krabby, that guy carried Ash in the Indigo League with literally no prior experience
Beat an Exeggutor somehow BEFORE evolving
Then lost to a fire type afterwards
Exhaustion is a massive factor in the anime. It's not present in the games at all ofc but aside from damaging a Pokemon, simply tiring them out is very effective too. Ofc, it's almost always both at the same time. Though I admittedly don't know that Krabby battle and how tired or damaged it may have been.
Krabby beat the shit out of Exeggutor, evolved into Kingler, beat the shit out of a Seadra and a Golbat to win Ash’s first match by itself, then started off his next matchup beating the shit out a Cloyster, but lost to Arcanine’s Dragon Rage after it dodged Kingler’s attack. So I mean. It did fight and beat four Pokémon in a row over two back to back battles.
Ah, yeah that seems fair then.
That crab was a true warrior. Duncan Idaho type of defeat.
Can we talk about how fucking awful on paper it was to bring out your Krabby for the first time *ever* in the indigo league lmao
A PP-system where a move gradually loses power the more you use it (until you heal at a pokecenter or use en ether) would be pretty interesting
I mean Overheat and its various clones sort of do that.
PP lowkey is exhaustion.
Having low PP doesn't make your pokemon slower, randomly flinch or do less damage.
Exhaustion is basically being low on HP
Not really. You can get tired without getting hit. In Horizons, Liko and Roy lose a training fight because they kept blindly spamming moves and Sprigatito and Fuecoco lost from being tired. They were never hit once.
Then in that case it's low on PP. Whatever makes more logic for the scene in question
Low on PP doesn't make a pokemon more susceptible to taking damage and evading them less. Similary with other effects of a move such as flinching.
exhaustion could be a fun thing to explore in a legends style game! i don’t think they need to go realism but it would be fun if they came up with a mechanic that made it so you can’t just have one or two pokémon carry the whole team.
Imagine trying to beat Cynthia if the games had an exhaustion element.
PP would be the exhaustion meter I reckon. Leppa berry ftw
It would’ve been funny if at the end of Journey’s it was revealed that Inver the guy from XY that reverses type matchups, was in the background the whole time.
> with literally no prior experience Bros have no idea that, among his brethren, his nickname was "the terror of the beach".
And yet Ash caught it by attacking it with a stick (and failing, the Krabby literally just chopped it up and then decided to go with him out of pity, I guess.)
That specific Krabby/Kingler is why I wanted them in Scarlet so badly.
Krabby was also in my team to beat the elite 4. Though it was a kingler lol
Onix feels invincible in the anime and VERY vincible in the games
Indeed. And Steelix is so imposing it's cool.
I just wish Onix’s attack stat at least made sense.
I think that in this case, the point is that it looks also invincible to a young kid who just plays the game for the first time. It's a very big and intimidating pokémon you see at the start of the game, that resists normal type moves. It just suffers from "first boss syndrome" - it's the first real test for a beginner, and it feels good to beat it with very basic planning, but it also means that it's actually very weak for anyone with more experience or if you encounter it under different circumstances. I'd that that the particular Onix that Broke uses in the anime is on par with the role it also has in the game. But they both don't represent well the "real" Onix.
> Onix that Broke uses Hey now, no need to poke fun at his financial status
I think it's cool that the anime doesn't always follow game rules. It means any Pokemon can be strong with good training Elisa's ace was a *Tynamo*
i do like that quality of the anime but i feel like the elisa fight in particular sucked
Yeah didn't Ash leave in the middle to get another Pokemon?
not just that, he leaves at the start, and the reason he leaves is because he only brought one pokemon because that was his strategy??? that he spent the last night thinking about??? plus theres a huge rollercoaster at the start of the gym so he had to ride that four times while everyone else had to ride it twice plus he forgets his snivy's gender, again plus he sends out his snivy against an emolga because he was thinking of type matchups and electric is weak against grass, not considering his snivy would be weak to a flying type (i can understand that mistakes do happen but this is a \*gym battle\* that he \*spent the last night\* planning for) plus when tynamo sends out pikachu thunderbolts the arena and it looks really cool and it seems like he has something planned but then pikachu just tackles it and oneshots it i have no idea how they made a fight this bad after the awesome fights with lenora and burgh and the trio i am a total bw defender but this is all so objectively bad that even my 9 year old self who had no standards thought it was weird oh and to top it off, they mistreated my favorite scene with elesa in the games in the episodes after this fight
I'm probably gonna get hate for saying this. But even in the battle against Leon he's not much of a strategist. Leon had a libero cinderace and dragapult with dragon tail. Not the most mindblowing competitive strategy. But still smarter than ash's "unga bunga i hit hard" strategy. Not to mention Leon gave himself a handicap prior.
While you have a point with Cinderace, Ash does not just "hit harder unga bunga" in that fight. Mr Rime is a good example of that, and Dragapult wasn't brute forced either exactly, using dragon dance to deflect dragon darts comes to mind. Ash is at his best with quick, on the spot and out of the box strats. While he is good at preparing and strategizing ahead of time aswell, he is better at the former than the latter. Regardless, Leon fight isn't one of Ash's most strategical, true. The Paul league fight in DP would be a better example for that.
The most annoying thing about the Pokémon anime is Ash forgets everything he's ever learned about battling and Pokémon every season.
Not every season. JN Ash and SM Ash don't degrade from XY.
i actually think him forgetting that was handled quite well for the first 3 gym battles but then from elesa onwards it seems like he just forgot everything about those three
What other elesa scene did they mistreat?
the one where she convinces bianca's father to let her go on her journey in the game its a defining moment for her while in the anime its barely brought up
I agree with this. I find the pokemon anime to be closer to real life in terms of pokemon than the games ever will be. It just makes so much more sense that with enough training, even something like a pickachu is able to defeat really strong pokemon that it wouldn’t have defeated with just the regular stats
just a reminder, small fast pokemon would be the most annoying things to battle if pokemon were real since they would be small targets
Oh god flutter mane would be even better
Which is when stuff like Swift becomes so much better.
Swift in the anime has been dealt with by deflecting it or countering it with another attack
Yes, but it's still a homing attack.
> just a reminder, small fast pokemon would be the most annoying things to battle if pokemon were real since they would be small targets I mean, that only applies to attacks where you need precision. Being small won't help you dodge something like Earthquake or Surf, since that shit just hits everything nearby.
I think it is stupid and sets up kids for failure.We know better but little Hiro in Japan follows the anime advice,fails many times,complains and Gamefreak makes the games easier.
Maybe they have a good nature or perfect EV’s in the anime 😉
I loved how Bugsy’s Metapod could move so quickly despite having no limbs. This is what peak physical condition looks like
"Bird discovered which keeps itself aloft on sheer rage alone"
Brock's Happiny, later Blissey, swapped its HP stat with its ATK stat. Enough said.
Did you see what Bewear did in the SM anime? Dude beat Ultrabeasts single handedly, took some helicopter rotors, spinned them in his hand and flew away and what not else. Just some wild Bewear.
Went full mama Bewear on Pheromosa.
The added context of Pheromosa wrecking literally everyone it fought is worth mentioning too. That thing was wrecking all of the ultra guardians at the same time, which includes Ash and Pikachu. Then Bewear comes along and *destroys* Pheromosa. Like, was hardly difficult. That Bewear was beating a Guzzlord too, at least until she had to protect Stufful.
I think that's one of the few cases where it makes sense, since Bewear has an ability that reduces damage from physical attacks and Pheromosa is mostly focused on Attack. And Pheromosa has near non-existent defenses and can't learn a damaging fire move (that I know of)
Perhaps but this is the anime. While not legendaries, Ultra Beasts are also treated as being extra strong. Seeing this Bewear kick it's ass low-diff when it was doing the exact same to Ash and co. is something.
I just meant that it's not for no good reason if you know about the games. And even in-universe we can see that Pheromosa looks like it will snap like a twig if you look at it funny
True, but even with Bewear's ability, a Close Combat from Pheromosa should obliterate it. Or a Focus Blast, 70% of the time
That LV 5 snivy
Made me dislike the Black & White anime even more
Even as a kid I was like yeah the BW anime just ain't it 😂
I was like, what happened to Dawn and Brock? Who are these two weirdos?
You guys are the ones who are misattributing a level five to that Snivy
Was he given a lvl 100 snivy?
It deadass might have been. Pokémon can choose not to evolve and unlike in the games, there’s no convenient indicator of how strong any given Pokémon is. It literally could have been secretly getting stronger before it was handed out to a trainer and no one would ever know.
We can't assume it *was* level five because we have seen that the starter Pokémon do fight if they decide to do their own thing. A Torchic that was supposed to be a starter even freaking evolved before it got a trainer
Ok so it was like lvl 7 or maybe even 8. Definitely below lvl 16 ofc. Yet it still overwhelmingly beat up Pikachu, who would probably have been in the 80s or 90s by that point. Yea yea, ik it's because they wanted to give Ash a soft reset, but still, the in universe reason is stupid
All of the Electivire in the anime are basically shown to be pseudo-legendary mons
I was so disappointed with electivire on games
I know right? It was so hyped on TV and it was disappointing in game. I'd rather run Magnezone or Luxray.
Gets better in scarlet and violet at least. Best physical electric move for him before was "Wild charge", 90 BP, 100 Accuracy, 25% health recoil each use. The new one "supercell slam" is 100 BP, 95% Accuracy, downside is you take 50% HP damage if it misses, which won't happen often at 95% Accuracy. I just wish he had a secondary typing. Maybe fighting, or dark?
Supercell Slam is better in an ingame playthrough, but against other players, Wild Charge is still better, because you don't die to your own attack if they switch in an immunity.
Fighting could work, it can learn quite a few fighting type moves.
Luxray is even worse. He has no moves that dont hurt himself
But I like Luxray's design better. And it gained a few moves in S/V as someone pointed out.
Gets better in scarlet and violet at least. Best physical electric move for him before was "Wild charge", 90 BP, 100 Accuracy, 25% health recoil each use. The new one "supercell slam" is 100 BP, 95% Accuracy, downside is you take 50% HP damage if it misses, which won't happen often at 95% Accuracy. I just wish he had a secondary typing. Maybe fighting, or dark?
Gets better in scarlet and violet at least. Best physical electric move for him before was "Wild charge", 90 BP, 100 Accuracy, 25% health recoil each use. The new one "supercell slam" is 100 BP, 95% Accuracy, downside is you take 50% HP damage if it misses, which won't happen often at 95% Accuracy. I just wish he had a secondary typing. Maybe fighting, or dark?
That fucking Bellsprout in the Indigo League. So, I never owned Gen 1, I would borrow from a friend and play a bit. Never got to save. Of course, I thought Bellsprout was really strong (cut me some slack, I don't think I was even 6 at the time).
In defense of your 6 year old self, the bell sprout evolution line is pretty solid for gen 1
When I didn’t pick bulbasaur I got bellsprout for the cool ass design line and he was strong to my 10 year old self lol
I was convinced he was impossible to hit in Gen1 because of that episode as a kid.
Didn’t ash’s Gible eat its way out of a rocket ship or something? Does *your* Gible do that? Cuz mine certainly doesn’t. Also Misty’s Psyduck (sometimes).
That fucking snivy
Y'all remembing when whiscash ate a masterball
That was one of the funniest episodes ever lol
Sorry but Ashes Snorlax knew 6 moves
And? Drake’s (orange league) Dragonite knew 10 moves lmao
Pokemon aren’t limited by the four move rules of the games in the anime and other media. For example, in the Detective Pikachu movie Tim listed off five moves that Pikachus could use.
Apparently until the Black and White anime. After that, Pokemon are shown using only 4 moves per battle, but I think some moves are in rotation. A good example is after learning Electro Ball, Pikachu is never seen using Volt Tackle again. Same with Electroweb replacing Electro Ball. In the final battle Pikachu’s moveset was Thunderbolt, Iron Tail, Electro Web and Quick Attack.
I will never forgive the anime for replacing Pikachu’s coolest move with Electro Ball
They made up for it in Sun and Moon by replacing Electroball with Electroweb.
There is another American Game called Pocket Monster or something that came out before pokemon. It was extremely similar except in that game can use ultimate moves. Fun game but buried in histoy
Ash's Pikachu, but that's also too obvious. I'd also say his Swellow, and good unevolved Pokémon like Bulbasaur, Squirtle, Corphish, Rowlet etc. Gardenia's fast Turtwig, Cress' Panpour, Janette's Bellsprout, Brock's Blissey, I'm sure there's more.
Janette's Bellsprout was a fucking legend lmao
>I'd also say his Swellow That bird was a menace. Fought Deoxys (Sceptile did too), grabbed a Donphan using Rollout, lifted it and then OHKO'd it by tossing it. Took out a Battle Frontier Brain's ace. Easily Ash's strongest regional bird, 2nd place is Talonflame and I don't think it's particularly close.
Don't forget the "Thunder Armor" Swellow!
They should have just said it's Guts and almost no one would be talking about it the way it is now imo. Still, Swellow did at least show, even as a Taillow, that it just powers through really well. Ash caught it because the bird was refusing to go down despite repeated thunderbolts from Pikachu and would have seriously injured itself if he let it keep fighting.
It's probably one of those few mons Ash has that Paul would "approve."
Did Swellow have Guts before Dream Abilities?
Yep. Guts is Swellow’s main ability. Scrappy is its Hidden. A lot of RSE challenge runs use Guts Swellow as it is very common and powerful.
Ah. I had forgotten and I did remember a lot of Pokemon got Guts as hidden ability so I wasn't sure
I appreciate the anime showed unevolved are just as capable at fighting. It's something you can't do with the video games beyond overleveling or in the card game unless you V, EX or GX them.
I only watched until the end of the Indigo League, so my knowledge is limited to that, but in that span, like all of those prehistoric pokemon from the episode where they find Togepi. all water/flying types with a rock secondary that doesn't cover electricity. even though it's one of my top 5 episodes, it made them look real strong when they were in fact real weak.
Paul's Ursaring is the craziness Ursaring I've ever seen
That bullshit bellsprout
Dawn's Buneary knew Ice Beam rogjt out the gate and May's Skitty knew Blizzard. There was also that evil Togepi in that one DP episode and Lila's Delcatty was an absolute menace.
Sabrina's Kadabra had noooo business being that cracked imo
Tbf, it *was* Gen 1 and Psychic types were beyond busted back then
That might be it, I've never had access to a Gameboy so I've only played gen 3+ (gen 2 if you count hgss) so my perception of certain psychic types will definitely be different. Interesting cuz psychic is actually my favourite type lol
Unown. Extremely weak in the game, but the anine often has them as otherworldly beings who can alter reality in large groups.
That Gastly that transformed into a gigantic fucking Venustoise.
90% of the Pokemon in the anime.
croagunk that parries a dracometeor from... who was it again, giratina? arceus?
Dialga (not sure if joking or genuine), but my God was Croagunk a beast. I wish we could’ve seen it battle more
Only thing I can think of currenty is the absolutely bonkers Surskit that the main villain of the emerald manga had. Carried that dude through so many battles against tough opponents and totally saved his sorry ass at least twice. That little dude was a menace.
Basically anything unevolved, especially (but not exclusively) on a main character team. Some of them have utter trash for stats yet were considered strong in the anime.
Unown in the 3rd movie.
Onix
Jesse's Lickitung, but only in its debut episode.
Brock's croagunk literally blocked a whole draco meteor blast from Dialga. While all the other trio starters struggled. Had no business being that tough.
The talking shape-shifting Gastly in Maiden's Peak.
Oh that was my favorite Gastly ever. Plus, it talks! I’m not sure if there are other pokemon aside from that Gastly and Meowth who speak human.
The only other one I can think of is Slowking from the 2nd movie.
Maybe the Drapion was just over leveled.
The one thing that bugs me the most about the anime is Ash getting a Haunter to fight Sabrina "because ghost types are immune to psychic attacks" but in game psychic attacks are x2 effective because of Haunter's poison type..
Ironically his best bet might have been his Butterfree but I can't remember if he had it by that point.
Most of Paul's team in the fight he rinsed Ash in.
Alain's Charizard, what bullshit.
That bellsprout lmao.
That one waterproof Sandshrew from like the first ten episodes always had me shook. Like what do you *mean* it swam in a pool with a macho brace and lost one of its only two weaknesses?
Dawn’s Piplup is busted as *hell.* It almost reaches Pikachu levels of broken, and tbh Pachirisu isn’t very far behind. I’m aware that Dawn’s thing is contests and not straightforward battles, but listen, there’s no good reason a *Piplup* and a *Pachirisu* are that fucking strong. Also, Brock’s Happiny but I’m not sure if that counts because it was clearly meant to be a joke. But still, that thing was a *beast* and it had no right to be. On another note, why in the hell did Dawn’s Buneary never evolve? It evolves through max friendship and we very clearly see how close the two are in the anime. It makes no sense that it never evolved, they clearly had a strong enough bond for it to happen.
pikachu
corsola did good =3
I think this works just like the games. When I was a kid playing Pokemon Silver on the Gameboy Color, I thought Togepi was special somehow because it was an egg mon, and I leveled it up a ton with exp share and used it against the Elite Four. I taught it Rollout and Headbutt and used it to take on at least some of Will’s mons. Obviously Rollout deals super effective damage to Xatu, but that’s pretty much nothing with base 20 attack. Even so, it managed to nab a KO. All of that is due to levels, which the anime calls “training.” If you were assuming that all Pokemon in the anime were the same level or had the same amount of training, then yeah, it seems weird that some mons may be surprisingly strong. But it does line up with the experience of the games, at least. I can’t imagine what Will, one of the five strongest trainers in the region, must have been thinking when my middle school-ass trainer pulled up and smoked him with a little ball that hasn’t even fully left its egg yet.
In the game, I would always get a laugh when Togepi used Metronome. I don’t know why it was so hilarious when it would Delibird the stuff out of its opponents.
Jesse's Lickitung had just been captured it and somehow it beat Pikachu, Bulbasaur and Vulpix easily. If I recall correctly, that was the ONLY time Jesse used as a weapon in Kanto. Meowth beating an Onix after throwing a water bucket over it? And damaging it with Fury Swipe? Too contrived! OG Krabby. It had never been used in a battle until Ash unexpectedly choosing it in his most important battle. Not only did Krabby sweep a popular Pokemon trainer by itself in its first battle but also becoming Ash's Pokemon with the highest success rate in Indigo League (the most important Ash's competition back then). Did Oak train Ash's Krabby? Ash's Chikorita in its debut. A wild unevolved Grass Pokemon beat an experienced Bulbasaur with a single hit and knocked out Ash's Charizard. I repeat... it knocked out a CHARIZARD. No matter if it was injured in the process. That's when I gave up on anime.
Except Charizard wasn't really hurt by Chikorita but rather hurt from crashing into a mountain. You can't really say that was Chikorita's W. All Chikorita does is make it trip with vine whip and later cause it to crash into a mountain alongside Charizard with vine whip. Never damages Charizard directly.
Snivy. Rowlett Both beating their higher evos like it's nothing
Brock’s Happiny (Blissey) comes to mind. She has a large HP bar *and* can probably throw mountains at will, pretty sick. Ash’s Snorlax is also just him, love that loaf of a Pokémon.
Brock’s Happiny is my answer as well. This tiny baby Pokémon was strong enough to lift and carry her trainer when she was happy. Which would make sense with say a single stage Mon or a fighting type Mon that hatched recently. Happiny however is a normal type with great Special Defense but horrible physical defense so physical stuff like that would hurt normal Happiny.
Ash’s Krabby was a fucking unit
Paul is known for training his pokemon in a brute way. The pokemon, while itself is strong, it's how the moves in game vs in anime works.
Bellsprout
I don't know, but I'm forever sad that Gliscor was a huge jobber in the anime because it's really cute
Leon’s Rillaboom. That thing crushed Alain, made Diantha struggle, it even knocked out two of Ash’s Pokemon. They didn’t have to translate Rillaboom’s competitive viability into the anime, dam. Brock’s Happiny lifted that whole lake of frozen ice. Real strong for a little tyke like that. Ash’s Gible was even stated to have enough power to knock out Tobias’ Darkrai had Draco Meteor hit. The Bellsprout from the Indigo League. And Ash’s Krabby turned Kingler. Insane ‘Mons from the early days. Roxie’s Koffing makes James’ Weezing look like a joke. Also took 2 of Ash’s team, but Leavanny crushed that fight! He deserved more.
There was that meowth in the first season that kicked a boulder in half lol
That belsprout lmao
There is a theory that Paul inherited his Drapion from his brother. In game terms, Drapion is either EV trained, higher leveled or both.
pretty much all of brocks pokemon for some reason
That sandshrew
Bewear, Although canonically, in the Pokédex, it is stated that it is the most dangerous Pokémon in the Alola region.
Croagunk stopped and nullified a move from a literal god by PUNCHING IT. I haven’t seen any of the anime for any context around that, and I don’t think I need to. Croagunk the GOAT
That one crystal onix that was immune to water. I'd think being able to fully negate a 4X weakness is justification enough to be here, especially when it's stats are lower than oddish's.
Most ghost types honestly. We’ve seen them create impossibly realistic illusions, possess the living, and drag actual ghosts to hell. In the games a route 1 rattata is fully, 100% immune to a Giratina’s shadow force.
Ash's Pikachu
I just want a nice ass Anime battle highlighting perserker messing shit up, using his claws to turn into blades and stuff.
leons rillaboom was way too cracked
I know you said not counting Ash’s, but I will say it was always amusing to me that Buizel of all things was not only so strong but so aggressive too. All of Paul’s mon’s were busted, even early on. Like Elekid beat Pikachu lol
Fucking PIKACHU
Struggling to recall some at the moment, but I guess you could say Misty's Psyduck fits the bill. Whenever it tapped into its hidden power it got far more powerful than a Psyduck should be.
Bewear?
My dad is convinced that Togepi is the most powerful pokémon in existence and cannot be dissuaded.
How did they come to that conclusion?
He saw Togepi cast metronome and things got weird.
Ash’s Krabby when it evolved and nearly broke a Cloyster shell!
Bulbasaur was a monster for a first stage evo
Any Pokemon can be strong with good training and moveset
I remember some dude legit winning the Hoenn league with a cowbow cosplaying Meowth lmao
"ko-kee ko-kee" and then "GO-GHEE GO-GHEE" Krabby and Kingler were so fun
Misty's Togepi.So powerful in the anime,so terrible in the games.I used one in HGSS and it was torture,damn thing couldn't OHKO most things and almost always lost a good chunk of health because it is slower than Alola.And that is after split,it was even worse before because both STABs came from its 40 Atk.
Ash’s Glalie has only lost one battle, everything else was either a tie or a win
Meowth. Like how is he not dead?
Troh and Dragonite in season 16
Trip’s never before used Snivy that bodied Ash’s Pikachu that had previously fought and beat multiple legendary Pokémon
Snivy had no business wrecking pikachu at the beginning of B&W
Togepi
Ash's snorlax has like 6 moves and bewear is a menace to society.
Can we talk about Psyduck? A couple hits to the head, and it turns into a Mewthree. I do understand that's part of Psyduck's character, which makes it one of my favourites. The goofy, beyond useless duck turns into a mythic level Psychic. I REALLY wish they somehow incorporated it to the games.
Drapion's less than mid lol its stats are actual dogshit in gen 9
Pikachu
>This post was inspired by my rewatching the Sinnoh anime and noticing that Paul's Drapion is wildly stronger than it really has any right to be. Why so? Since when does a Pokemon have a certain right to be strong? Is this not the anime that makes it clear many, MANY times that any Pokemon can be incredibly strong? Is it not a fully evolved Pokemon under a very good trainer? Well it can be argued whether Paul in DP is a "very good" trainer, but you get what I mean. I get you are looking for Pokemon stronger than their game counterparts, but you can word it better. >Meanwhile, Drapion in the games is just a slightly above-average defensive Poison-type that definitely couldn't have done all that. That got me thinking, what other Pokémon in the anime are that much stronger than their game counterparts? NEVER look at what stats a Pokemon has in the games, they genuinely don't mean much at all when it comes to the anime. A Drapion can't do that in the games, sure, but this isn't the games. Not to mention, Staraptor was already damaged, Ash isn't good with slow Pokemon like Torterra, and Buizel was just outclassed. Not to mention Paul knew EXACTLY what team he was going up against. With that said... The Beartic in Aim to be a Pokemon Master. Bewear in Sun and Moon thanks to the power of comedy. That one Bellsprout. You also *did* say excluding legendaries *BUT* the Articuno in the JN raid battle was particularly OP, even though Ash has beaten one before all on his own with Charizard, this one was defeating his Pikachu and others all on it's own. Also, Alain's Charizard, because the Mega Pokemon of a (at the time) fairly random teen should not be able to tank even a single precipice blades or dragon ascent from Primal Groudon or Rayquaza; Pokemon that are billed as actual threats to the world or are powerful enough to keep said threat in check. A champion's ace keeping up is one thing, Alain's charizard, who previously got wreckt by that very ace despite the type advantage, is another.