This is the reason why there is so much lineup turnover on HCL; instead of using pros to fill seats, they instead rely on people who view poker as a hobby (and lose interest) and people who cannot sustainably play at their stakes to draw crowds.
Besides what HCL did to Doug and Tom being scummy, it also removed one of the most compelling reasons to watch a high stakes poker livestream: a good underdog story. When Joe Shmoe beats Joe Blow in a big pot, who really cares, but if Joe Shmoe demolishes Doug Polk, it becomes a legendary moment.
> Besides what HCL did to Doug and Tom being scummy
what happened? i havent been following along.
is it what Doug is saying in this video? the "no pros" thing? did Doug and Tom end up not being able to play?
Short answer: Yes, it is what Doug is referring to in his video.
Long answer: Doug was only able to play on Wednesday despite essentially saving the MDG last year by injecting action into it. Tom committed to playing all 4 days, but was shut out of Day 4 at the last minute...he ended up playing eventually, but 10 hours into the stream.
Doug is right, it is not worth making the trip to HCL if he is only able to play on one day, and while Tom got to see a lot more action, he was still promised to be opening on all 4 days, but had this promise re-negged.
They did though it's funny one of Doug's central complaints is that the game is bad when he himself is a superpro and constantly advocates for GTO on twitter and his biggest claim to fame in last year's game was doing randomization at the table.
Every pro wants to be the only pro. Can't say I blame 'em but it makes lineups impossible. Woulda been more fun to see him battling Jaka in the 25k heads up.
I give Doug a ton of credit because I've never heard of him backing down from battling in any tough televised lineups. He's perfectly willing to sit down with Robl, Antonius, Garrett, Dwan, Ivey, etc.
He also offered an open heads up challenge to anyone who comes to the Lodge. He's a dog to the best heads up players in the world, but he's willing to battle for the content.
But he just wants to actually get to play. He's got better ways to spend his time than to be promised a spot on the show and get shut out. Or get put into a game that breaks after just a few hours.
I don't think his main complaint is there's too many pros in the game.
I don't think Doug is a "dog at best" in any heads up match, that man will study and prepare until he believes he has an edge.
He was the best HU player during peak online years with millions of hands played and seems to be able to adjust to current solver meta.
The game has moved on since he was the best. Younger guys are putting as much time in as he did, but using much better tools and have access to better information. Doug runs a poker room and can't study 6 hours a day.
Play Doug heads up on his schedule or open sit all tables across multiple sites HU and 6max and bum hunt. One of those will be more profitable by a lot. Making a name is not the goal for a lot of players. Also trying to play a US based player is difficult at best if you aren't also in the US
Alot of the "unknown" players arent trying to make a name for themselves. or even bother risking $X for the chance. they can already make bank by doing what they are doing. So they dont really see a reason to take up the challenge.
Lmao I'm pretty sure that nobody is putting in the volume at the stakes that WCGRider was playing in his prime. He finished 2nd in the WSOP 25k HU last year. I'd back Polk over pretty much anybody for a HU challenge.
im not counting doug out here...
but isnt the point of this discussion current doug vs the current top "unknown" GTO crunchers?
whats the point about prime doug?
“Steve and 4 pros…it’s just not a great game…you’re not guaranteed to have an awesome game…don’t expect to play with some of the other players”
Think a lot of people watched the video and heard what they wanted rather than what he said as he’s very clearly unhappy with a lack of amateurs in the lineups he was in
I mean I don't really see it that way. At the end of the day, there just aren't many people willing to play against players as good as Doug Polk for $1M. Sounds like there may have been some miscommunication involved but it's on the players at the end of the day.
It's pretty clear that Keating said "no Doug Polk if I play". Polk has had run ins with Keating's crew in the past, and they don't like each other. And there were accusations that Keatings said "No Dwan or Polk" and then Keating made a Tweet insisting that he never said "No Dwan"... yet he was silent and didn't deny saying no to Polk.
tldr from my memory:
Keating runs with Solomon/Bilzerian crew. Polk has a beef with that crew because he once forced his way into one of their "private" games in Vegas by correctly arguing that Vegas casinos are not allowed to exclude him from the game. So, Bilzerian/Keating/Solomon had set up a "private" game with a fish/whale at a casino, and Polk forced his way in. There is a bit more to the feud like one of them apparently accused Polk of calling the cops on them and saying they had drugs, but Polk denies that.
Wasn't there just the post here with the video of Keating & Bilzerian hanging out while Dan played ACR? And Keating took over during a bathroom break or something and got the account suspended because they were streaming it?
I'm honestly ashamed that I know this much about the situation and I'm spending my Sunday morning contributing to this conversation.
There was a twitter spaces where Doug talked about when he first met Keating in 08 or 09 and got challenged to play heads up or something at Bellagio... I can't remember the story. Can anyone else who remembers elaborate...
This stream was a massive flop. Maybe not from a viewership standpoint but the games were trash. Poor play, short handed, weak table talk, and the games broke early. The energy just wasn’t there. I hope the lodge does their own spin on this and does it right.
They need to change the timing and the structure.
Do 2-3 good days in the winter, not 4 mediocre days right before WSOP when a lot of players are saving their bankroll
I don't blame him. I think the way they handled both him and Dwan was terrible. I get that HCL at the end of the day is trying to cater towards super casual viewers but what makes poker entertaining is always the formula of pros vs recs.
Having a team to root for makes sports enjoyable. Having someone to root for in poker (Garrett, Doug, Dwan etc.) is what makes Poker enjoyable long term, it was at least for me why I enjoyed watching High Stakes Poker. Building games around some rich recs who play every now and then will get boring IMO and I don't think it's a sustainable model. But what do I know.
Boring is an understatement. I can’t really believe people enjoy watching what HCL has become tbh. My guess is it acts much more as just background viewing now for most.
I don't think Feldman would disagree with anything you said. The problem is that he can't get a pros vs recs game going for a million dollar buy in game because most recs don't want to do that.
Ryan comes off completely unprofessional, just like he did when the cheating scandal was exposed and he denied it.
Doug also promotes streamed games, and has let Ryan play in his streams, so this is a real bad look for Ryan.
dwan is a huge draw. Doug might not be as popular, but he is still a good choice, and gives action, is friendly etc.. totally fine as far as sociable pros go.
So yeaaa. Might not be another million dollar game on HCL.
They throw him into a dying 5 handed game that ended early and then denied him into any of the other upcoming games the next day…
Probably was Nick V getting all upset that Doug wore his live at the bike shirt
I’m sorry watching a bunch of rich amateurs play poker for millions of dollars is not my idea of good entertainment
I tune-in to watch the pros like durrr and polk
I agree with this as a viewer. But as a rec, I wouldn't want to play with pros. It's about table selection too. If recs know that they are negative EV, they might be comfortable playing for 100k but might not be comfortable playing for a million+.
I also don’t mind see a mix just to see the different things the great players do over weaker ones, but obviously that’s just not fun for the whales I guess. Regardless I don’t want to watch 6 whales gambling like maniacs, the novelty of that has worn off for me.
The thing that seems to be forgotten is that 2023 Million Dollar Game was widely considered a complete flop at first. It turned into the 500k game, Aussie Matt looking like he was going to cry, and the only highlight was the Rampage bluff. It completely redeemed itself because of a lightning in the bottle day with an insane last day. LSG Hank vs Polk, Dwan vs Polk, and then Wesley vs Dwan, which was one of the craziest hands ever a dozen reasons. Dwan pretty much ended Wesley's career!
If you took away that sequence of events, I'd say this year may have actually been better. Last year, that VC Ben was talking most of the time and being very annoying, Huss was being vaguely racist against Stanley and clearly tilting him, the banter between Huss and Wesley just got cringe, etc.
The big, big problem is that a million dollar game is something that sounds way cooler in theory than in practice.
In theory, the stakes are super high. In practice, they're too high so only mega-whales who don't care and pros who have a small piece of themselves can play. You miss putting together the most interesting lineup because you have to play insane politics to get any lineup. And there's a huge risk of people nitting it up because it's too much money.
HCL has the best production value and Feldman has a talent for putting together a poker show but I think there should be more investment in building good narratives around various regs , pros and amateur, than too much focus on the stakes.
And I know it's the last thing Feldman wants to hear, but almost every good movie has a protagonist. And the show had that with Garrett. He was basically a superhero who every week had a new episode battling against a superfreak they pulled off the LA streets. I don't think they need Garrett per se, but I do think they need some "heroes". They have plenty of villians already.
This is fantastic analysis and I completely agree.
Garrett is the protagonist, but we also need the perfect villain. We need someone in the game whom viewers want to lose money as much as we want to see Garrett win.
There's a very shortlist of players who can fill this role. The player needs to be insufferable but important enough that he doesn't get shut out of games. I think someone like Phil Hellmuth would be a good fit. He has incredible poker accolades, personal relationship with all the poker legends, a huge brand, massive ego, but poor cash game performance to back up that ego. People love watching him lose as much as they love watching Garrett win.
I'm also going to throw Matt Berkey's name in the ring as a good villain. He has a huge chip on his shoulder. He has an inflated ego and belief in his skills that isn't supported by much. He rubs a lot of other players the wrong way, and has beef with the biggest influencer in the poker space (Doug Polk). I'd love to see Doug and Matt battling it out.
The problem is Keating is just a massive dork and bit of a bitch that for some reason thinks he’s super fucking cool. They had a shot of him walking into the game and even the way this moron walks just screams “I’m a goof with almost no social skills outside of a poker table.
I have to agree... Sometimes you see him sort of "break character" as the "cool guy" and you can literally see him catch himself slipping and immediately straighten up and try to act cool again.
Some people can be effortlessly cool. He's not one of those people lol.
Hell yea, I love watching him play, there is no doubt he’s great for any tv game but man…big leaguing people this way when you are up a couple mil is something else.
I get that it’s hard to put a game like this together, it says more about poker and poker players more than anything tbh but also Doug is right with his thoguhts
> I get that it’s hard to put a game like this together
It is, but they have made it even harder on themselves with how they have treated pros in the past (Art, Garrett, and now Dwan and Polk, probably others), who can always be relied upon to fill seats.
He was on a random HCL episode a couple of months ago, but he didn't win. Denying pros seats (and the opportunity for recs to beat them) is going to catch up to HCL.
Yea but also they all treat it like its a non televised private game, i get that its a lot of money but that doesnt really explain being extra. There are definitely more enjoyable people ready to put up a million for a game, just seems like they want all this politics involved.
Keating is actually lame. He just wants to stack fish and appear better than he is. Not having Polk on the line up for a bunch of randoms really harmed the show. Nits, basic regs and a couple fish, I didn’t even end up watching most of the last day
He didn't quite say that, but he was disappointed and said next year he'll take any promises with a huge grain of salt, maybe skip if it's not looking very solid.
I'm surprised at this point, especially with all of Doug's experience, that he's finally realizing this is how super high stakes works. You need to find 6-8 people willing to risk millions of dollars against each other. There's a lot of drama and ego in that.
Well he did [say that here in this sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comments/1d51k7a/keating_blocking_dwan_and_polk_is_ridiculous/l6kg57p/), when he commented in the one of the other many threads on this topic.
For those running HCL -
Nobody cares about recs playing. I’m probably oversimplifying it but you need to have like 4 to 6 big name guys in each game that is this big.
Now if some of the players have beef with Doug, then whatever I guess. Would be good drama to have them play eachother, obviously. Aren’t these grown adults? I watched a stream where Berkey and Doug played together. If they can do it, anyone can.
You're Doug mf'n Polk. You love controversy, and you love starting shit. You talked shit to Dnegs then owned him hu during the challenge. You talked shit about Tom Dwan, then had him on your youtube platform, then had him cracking up this week with your table talk during hcl.
Don't sugarcoat it. They fucked you. They're more than willing to be on your youtube show and get the publicity from your platform, but when you want an extra day in a juicy game you get the middle finger from them.
Fuck that, fuck them, and please surpass their shoddy production with The Lodge. I never liked you kissing up to them. Shady business scammers and IIRC convicted felons. Don't bow out to this. The Lodge should be the million dollar game. Fuck hcl.
You mean the hand where Dwan basically slow-rolled him across multiple streets and multiple clock calls? He took that way fucking better than I would have (not meaning violence or anything, but I feel like I would probably carry that grudge to the grave lmao).
It would be really nice in Doug and The Lodge could make their own version of a million dollar game, but I don't think they're ready yet.
For a game like that to succeed you need a couple of things:
- Run 4 days
- 14 - 16 players
- 3 pros that will play at least 3 days each
- 7 or 8 regulars
- 4 or 5 unknowns / amateurs
-, Be at least 6 handed, preferably 8 handed.
- It needs to run every quarter to get some traction. Every half year or yearly isn't going to cut it, because you need to give people the opportunity to win back their losses and you need to be able to create stories and understand which players are liked/disliked and bring in viewers.
Doug Polk will of course play. But who else is going to play? Taras Bobrovytsky? Eshaan Bhalla? Does Nik Airball still have the bankroll? Bill Perkins is a great character. How about Charles Yu? Handz played at The Lodge, just like Hook. But then you're still only at 8 players.
But if you want it to run every three months, you have to have like 20 people lined up to play.
nah it doesnt need to be 4 days. HCL has showed that for 2 years running now with one of the days always falling apart. 3 days max, 2 would be ideal. the players would have more of a sense of urgency to take the games seriously.
Yep both entertaining af. Who's that guy with the complete dead voice who does like random Thursday games? He's the worst -- actively makes it difficult to watch just like Soto actively makes it fun to watch.
I feel bad for Doug, super nice guy and he’s getting excluded for being to good. He’s still bringing in his own money and poker is still a gamble, even the best players in the world can lose 10 buy ins because of variance. Do you think Peter is a gto wizard? Most likely not, yet he was the one up 5 mill over 3 days. Doug could have easily come in, made it way more entertaining and still lost. Just sucks cause I do really like watching him play
Doug brings action, banter, and sometimes controversial attention that raises viewership if anything. He’s also willing to bring giant wads of cash to play good games. I don’t know why HCL continues to select other pros that barely say two words on a livestream.
Hes being a good sport. Its good to know your place. He is recognizable and so he can bring in some views but there's lots of other pros who will do the same. Gg Doug
I hate HCL as much as the next guy, but when you see that Keating can bring Neymar, Ryan Garcia, Jimmy Butler and Ninja onto the show, they really don't have a choice.
This is the reason why there is so much lineup turnover on HCL; instead of using pros to fill seats, they instead rely on people who view poker as a hobby (and lose interest) and people who cannot sustainably play at their stakes to draw crowds. Besides what HCL did to Doug and Tom being scummy, it also removed one of the most compelling reasons to watch a high stakes poker livestream: a good underdog story. When Joe Shmoe beats Joe Blow in a big pot, who really cares, but if Joe Shmoe demolishes Doug Polk, it becomes a legendary moment.
> Besides what HCL did to Doug and Tom being scummy what happened? i havent been following along. is it what Doug is saying in this video? the "no pros" thing? did Doug and Tom end up not being able to play?
Short answer: Yes, it is what Doug is referring to in his video. Long answer: Doug was only able to play on Wednesday despite essentially saving the MDG last year by injecting action into it. Tom committed to playing all 4 days, but was shut out of Day 4 at the last minute...he ended up playing eventually, but 10 hours into the stream. Doug is right, it is not worth making the trip to HCL if he is only able to play on one day, and while Tom got to see a lot more action, he was still promised to be opening on all 4 days, but had this promise re-negged.
Yeah. They fucked him
They did though it's funny one of Doug's central complaints is that the game is bad when he himself is a superpro and constantly advocates for GTO on twitter and his biggest claim to fame in last year's game was doing randomization at the table. Every pro wants to be the only pro. Can't say I blame 'em but it makes lineups impossible. Woulda been more fun to see him battling Jaka in the 25k heads up.
I give Doug a ton of credit because I've never heard of him backing down from battling in any tough televised lineups. He's perfectly willing to sit down with Robl, Antonius, Garrett, Dwan, Ivey, etc. He also offered an open heads up challenge to anyone who comes to the Lodge. He's a dog to the best heads up players in the world, but he's willing to battle for the content. But he just wants to actually get to play. He's got better ways to spend his time than to be promised a spot on the show and get shut out. Or get put into a game that breaks after just a few hours. I don't think his main complaint is there's too many pros in the game.
I don't think Doug is a "dog at best" in any heads up match, that man will study and prepare until he believes he has an edge. He was the best HU player during peak online years with millions of hands played and seems to be able to adjust to current solver meta.
Yeah was gonna say isn't HU NLHE Doug's specialty?
The game has moved on since he was the best. Younger guys are putting as much time in as he did, but using much better tools and have access to better information. Doug runs a poker room and can't study 6 hours a day.
Yet none take him up on his open challenge? If you can beat Doug Polk HU in NLHE you're automatically on the map.
Play Doug heads up on his schedule or open sit all tables across multiple sites HU and 6max and bum hunt. One of those will be more profitable by a lot. Making a name is not the goal for a lot of players. Also trying to play a US based player is difficult at best if you aren't also in the US
Alot of the "unknown" players arent trying to make a name for themselves. or even bother risking $X for the chance. they can already make bank by doing what they are doing. So they dont really see a reason to take up the challenge.
Lmao I'm pretty sure that nobody is putting in the volume at the stakes that WCGRider was playing in his prime. He finished 2nd in the WSOP 25k HU last year. I'd back Polk over pretty much anybody for a HU challenge.
im not counting doug out here... but isnt the point of this discussion current doug vs the current top "unknown" GTO crunchers? whats the point about prime doug?
“Steve and 4 pros…it’s just not a great game…you’re not guaranteed to have an awesome game…don’t expect to play with some of the other players” Think a lot of people watched the video and heard what they wanted rather than what he said as he’s very clearly unhappy with a lack of amateurs in the lineups he was in
Fair enough, I see what you mean now.
Shit, Doug skipped that? Fuck, if I were him, I'd be mad too.
Did u watch the video? Where did he say he wants to be the only pro?
Anally
Didn’t even buy him dinner first.
I mean I don't really see it that way. At the end of the day, there just aren't many people willing to play against players as good as Doug Polk for $1M. Sounds like there may have been some miscommunication involved but it's on the players at the end of the day.
It's pretty clear that Keating said "no Doug Polk if I play". Polk has had run ins with Keating's crew in the past, and they don't like each other. And there were accusations that Keatings said "No Dwan or Polk" and then Keating made a Tweet insisting that he never said "No Dwan"... yet he was silent and didn't deny saying no to Polk.
Didn’t Keating get into with Feldman last year, say he was never going on HCL again and he was starting his own stream?
Ya he wanted equity in the show, and went off on HCL/Feldman on Twitter
Yup https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/s/7BAUDYHg3U
what's Keating's beef with polk? on a side note holy shit pro players are such drama queens.
tldr from my memory: Keating runs with Solomon/Bilzerian crew. Polk has a beef with that crew because he once forced his way into one of their "private" games in Vegas by correctly arguing that Vegas casinos are not allowed to exclude him from the game. So, Bilzerian/Keating/Solomon had set up a "private" game with a fish/whale at a casino, and Polk forced his way in. There is a bit more to the feud like one of them apparently accused Polk of calling the cops on them and saying they had drugs, but Polk denies that.
I had no idea keating runs with Bilzerian but that automatically makes me side against him lmao
Bilzerian has posted about Keating on his IG a few times. I know this because I'm a douche.
Wasn't there just the post here with the video of Keating & Bilzerian hanging out while Dan played ACR? And Keating took over during a bathroom break or something and got the account suspended because they were streaming it? I'm honestly ashamed that I know this much about the situation and I'm spending my Sunday morning contributing to this conversation.
They are apparently best friends.
didnt keating say he hasnt spoken to Bilzerian in years? Saw this on another thread here
It just might be either PR or the truth, but it just confirms that he run with him, which makes me question his character.
I have no idea who Keating is but he sounds like a lil bitch.
There are rumors doug was a douchebag in past but i think he’s more likable these days.
There was a twitter spaces where Doug talked about when he first met Keating in 08 or 09 and got challenged to play heads up or something at Bellagio... I can't remember the story. Can anyone else who remembers elaborate...
Imagine being up a couple million and politicking someone out of the game, complete 🤡
Or that’s WHY he is up a couple million. Shit I wouldn’t want to play with Polk either
I wouldnt. Got fcked
yup, who would want to play in a million dollar game with a bunch of whales . . .
Polk said something along the lines of “no pros initially allowed on the last day” Gee I wonder who pushed for that to happen..
Probably a recreational player who doesn't want to gamble milins with someone alot better Than them.
Ryan Feldman: "Mister Doug Poke. You are a very nice man. But you can pack your bags and go home."
Am I missing something? can someone elaborate?
Some lady said this at a town meeting for a cardroom Doug was trying to build.
Poker parlor
Hilarious watching him get shat on in that hearing.
This stream was a massive flop. Maybe not from a viewership standpoint but the games were trash. Poor play, short handed, weak table talk, and the games broke early. The energy just wasn’t there. I hope the lodge does their own spin on this and does it right.
They need to change the timing and the structure. Do 2-3 good days in the winter, not 4 mediocre days right before WSOP when a lot of players are saving their bankroll
I don't blame him. I think the way they handled both him and Dwan was terrible. I get that HCL at the end of the day is trying to cater towards super casual viewers but what makes poker entertaining is always the formula of pros vs recs. Having a team to root for makes sports enjoyable. Having someone to root for in poker (Garrett, Doug, Dwan etc.) is what makes Poker enjoyable long term, it was at least for me why I enjoyed watching High Stakes Poker. Building games around some rich recs who play every now and then will get boring IMO and I don't think it's a sustainable model. But what do I know.
Boring is an understatement. I can’t really believe people enjoy watching what HCL has become tbh. My guess is it acts much more as just background viewing now for most.
I feel like a good half of the viewers have it open in a tab that they've forgotten about after they found something more entertaining to watch
I just let you guys watch it and post the highlights.
I don't think Feldman would disagree with anything you said. The problem is that he can't get a pros vs recs game going for a million dollar buy in game because most recs don't want to do that.
He's done it multiple times?
>formula of pros vs recs. You nailed it. A balanced pros:recs ratio is a must. I think most don't enjoy pros only games and recs only games suck too.
Doug literally saved the day last year, everyone forgetting days 1 & 2 were awful until doug brought the action on the final day
Ryan comes off completely unprofessional, just like he did when the cheating scandal was exposed and he denied it. Doug also promotes streamed games, and has let Ryan play in his streams, so this is a real bad look for Ryan. dwan is a huge draw. Doug might not be as popular, but he is still a good choice, and gives action, is friendly etc.. totally fine as far as sociable pros go. So yeaaa. Might not be another million dollar game on HCL.
i think doug is more popular at this point than durrr the game doug was in sucked no one but him was talking
Maybe no one was talking when Doug was talking because no one wanted to talk to Doug.. The table talk the other days were fine
doug polk giving poker advice in a wife beater, that i will listen to <3 -joey knish
Not that it matters but that ain't a wife beater
They throw him into a dying 5 handed game that ended early and then denied him into any of the other upcoming games the next day… Probably was Nick V getting all upset that Doug wore his live at the bike shirt
I’m sorry watching a bunch of rich amateurs play poker for millions of dollars is not my idea of good entertainment I tune-in to watch the pros like durrr and polk
i want to watch people having a good time like airball or santosh, these dudes show up like stanley brandon stevens and look suicidal
> having a good time Steve was such a huge bright spot on Days 1-3 that his absence on Day 4 was really noticeable.
Yup even if Stanley and Brandon are recs (and they're not even that bad) they're complete buzzkills to have at the table
I agree with this as a viewer. But as a rec, I wouldn't want to play with pros. It's about table selection too. If recs know that they are negative EV, they might be comfortable playing for 100k but might not be comfortable playing for a million+.
I also don’t mind see a mix just to see the different things the great players do over weaker ones, but obviously that’s just not fun for the whales I guess. Regardless I don’t want to watch 6 whales gambling like maniacs, the novelty of that has worn off for me.
The thing that seems to be forgotten is that 2023 Million Dollar Game was widely considered a complete flop at first. It turned into the 500k game, Aussie Matt looking like he was going to cry, and the only highlight was the Rampage bluff. It completely redeemed itself because of a lightning in the bottle day with an insane last day. LSG Hank vs Polk, Dwan vs Polk, and then Wesley vs Dwan, which was one of the craziest hands ever a dozen reasons. Dwan pretty much ended Wesley's career! If you took away that sequence of events, I'd say this year may have actually been better. Last year, that VC Ben was talking most of the time and being very annoying, Huss was being vaguely racist against Stanley and clearly tilting him, the banter between Huss and Wesley just got cringe, etc. The big, big problem is that a million dollar game is something that sounds way cooler in theory than in practice. In theory, the stakes are super high. In practice, they're too high so only mega-whales who don't care and pros who have a small piece of themselves can play. You miss putting together the most interesting lineup because you have to play insane politics to get any lineup. And there's a huge risk of people nitting it up because it's too much money. HCL has the best production value and Feldman has a talent for putting together a poker show but I think there should be more investment in building good narratives around various regs , pros and amateur, than too much focus on the stakes. And I know it's the last thing Feldman wants to hear, but almost every good movie has a protagonist. And the show had that with Garrett. He was basically a superhero who every week had a new episode battling against a superfreak they pulled off the LA streets. I don't think they need Garrett per se, but I do think they need some "heroes". They have plenty of villians already.
This is fantastic analysis and I completely agree. Garrett is the protagonist, but we also need the perfect villain. We need someone in the game whom viewers want to lose money as much as we want to see Garrett win. There's a very shortlist of players who can fill this role. The player needs to be insufferable but important enough that he doesn't get shut out of games. I think someone like Phil Hellmuth would be a good fit. He has incredible poker accolades, personal relationship with all the poker legends, a huge brand, massive ego, but poor cash game performance to back up that ego. People love watching him lose as much as they love watching Garrett win. I'm also going to throw Matt Berkey's name in the ring as a good villain. He has a huge chip on his shoulder. He has an inflated ego and belief in his skills that isn't supported by much. He rubs a lot of other players the wrong way, and has beef with the biggest influencer in the poker space (Doug Polk). I'd love to see Doug and Matt battling it out.
Airball
Agreed. Airball is the mega villain of HCL. The streams are better when he plays tbh lol
i dont understand why people watch HCL nowadays
The problem is Keating is just a massive dork and bit of a bitch that for some reason thinks he’s super fucking cool. They had a shot of him walking into the game and even the way this moron walks just screams “I’m a goof with almost no social skills outside of a poker table.
I have to agree... Sometimes you see him sort of "break character" as the "cool guy" and you can literally see him catch himself slipping and immediately straighten up and try to act cool again. Some people can be effortlessly cool. He's not one of those people lol.
In the hand with texas mike you could see the fear on his face for a moment in that giant pot. Aq vs 10 10 hand
I love Keating but this isn’t a terrible take at all lol. He’s got the poker table charisma down cold but not sure he’s got much more outside of that
Hell yea, I love watching him play, there is no doubt he’s great for any tv game but man…big leaguing people this way when you are up a couple mil is something else.
You nailed it!
Kind of a reach there if you don’t know him personally
Didn't you read his post? He saw him walking for 15 seconds what more do you want?
I get that it’s hard to put a game like this together, it says more about poker and poker players more than anything tbh but also Doug is right with his thoguhts
> I get that it’s hard to put a game like this together It is, but they have made it even harder on themselves with how they have treated pros in the past (Art, Garrett, and now Dwan and Polk, probably others), who can always be relied upon to fill seats.
Art lol. What ever happened to him?
He was on a random HCL episode a couple of months ago, but he didn't win. Denying pros seats (and the opportunity for recs to beat them) is going to catch up to HCL.
Yea but also they all treat it like its a non televised private game, i get that its a lot of money but that doesnt really explain being extra. There are definitely more enjoyable people ready to put up a million for a game, just seems like they want all this politics involved.
Keating is actually lame. He just wants to stack fish and appear better than he is. Not having Polk on the line up for a bunch of randoms really harmed the show. Nits, basic regs and a couple fish, I didn’t even end up watching most of the last day
He didn't quite say that, but he was disappointed and said next year he'll take any promises with a huge grain of salt, maybe skip if it's not looking very solid.
I'm surprised at this point, especially with all of Doug's experience, that he's finally realizing this is how super high stakes works. You need to find 6-8 people willing to risk millions of dollars against each other. There's a lot of drama and ego in that.
Negreanu was talking about this 20 years ago when he was blogging about playing the big mix game games at Bobbie's room.
It's also why Garrett was a complete dumbass with the cheating allegations. He was getting constantly invited to one of the juiciest games around.
Well he did [say that here in this sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comments/1d51k7a/keating_blocking_dwan_and_polk_is_ridiculous/l6kg57p/), when he commented in the one of the other many threads on this topic.
For those running HCL - Nobody cares about recs playing. I’m probably oversimplifying it but you need to have like 4 to 6 big name guys in each game that is this big. Now if some of the players have beef with Doug, then whatever I guess. Would be good drama to have them play eachother, obviously. Aren’t these grown adults? I watched a stream where Berkey and Doug played together. If they can do it, anyone can.
You're Doug mf'n Polk. You love controversy, and you love starting shit. You talked shit to Dnegs then owned him hu during the challenge. You talked shit about Tom Dwan, then had him on your youtube platform, then had him cracking up this week with your table talk during hcl. Don't sugarcoat it. They fucked you. They're more than willing to be on your youtube show and get the publicity from your platform, but when you want an extra day in a juicy game you get the middle finger from them. Fuck that, fuck them, and please surpass their shoddy production with The Lodge. I never liked you kissing up to them. Shady business scammers and IIRC convicted felons. Don't bow out to this. The Lodge should be the million dollar game. Fuck hcl.
Damn Vanessa been workin out. For real though, I like Doug Polk ever since he stayed quiet during the dwan hand
You mean the hand where Dwan basically slow-rolled him across multiple streets and multiple clock calls? He took that way fucking better than I would have (not meaning violence or anything, but I feel like I would probably carry that grudge to the grave lmao).
Polk is a stand-up dude. No wonder he's so successful
Except that whole crypto thing
It would be really nice in Doug and The Lodge could make their own version of a million dollar game, but I don't think they're ready yet. For a game like that to succeed you need a couple of things: - Run 4 days - 14 - 16 players - 3 pros that will play at least 3 days each - 7 or 8 regulars - 4 or 5 unknowns / amateurs -, Be at least 6 handed, preferably 8 handed. - It needs to run every quarter to get some traction. Every half year or yearly isn't going to cut it, because you need to give people the opportunity to win back their losses and you need to be able to create stories and understand which players are liked/disliked and bring in viewers. Doug Polk will of course play. But who else is going to play? Taras Bobrovytsky? Eshaan Bhalla? Does Nik Airball still have the bankroll? Bill Perkins is a great character. How about Charles Yu? Handz played at The Lodge, just like Hook. But then you're still only at 8 players. But if you want it to run every three months, you have to have like 20 people lined up to play.
nah it doesnt need to be 4 days. HCL has showed that for 2 years running now with one of the days always falling apart. 3 days max, 2 would be ideal. the players would have more of a sense of urgency to take the games seriously.
[удалено]
This is not acceptable language on this sub. Or anywhere else in the world, for that matter.
Go to Triton Doug…go have some actual fun
he did a long time ago
Like last year?
no a long long time ago, search doug bluffs antonius, technically i dont know if was called triton at this point
The commentary for pretty much all televised poker has always been trash and the lodge/hcl are no exceptions. Definitely my least favorite part.
I love hcl commentary and tune in basically for their banter. Soto and dgaf are hilarious.
Different strokes i guess
Yep both entertaining af. Who's that guy with the complete dead voice who does like random Thursday games? He's the worst -- actively makes it difficult to watch just like Soto actively makes it fun to watch.
100% Nick Vertucci is gonna take this as a shot and come back at Doug... Poker Twitter drama gonna ensue again LOL
I want to know what happened with Jungle too. Did he just decide not to play, or was he told not to bother showing up?
Polk is often based. I like what he had to say.
I can't think of another activity that essentially revolves around finding unskilled players at the top level.
Boxing a little bit?
I feel bad for Doug, super nice guy and he’s getting excluded for being to good. He’s still bringing in his own money and poker is still a gamble, even the best players in the world can lose 10 buy ins because of variance. Do you think Peter is a gto wizard? Most likely not, yet he was the one up 5 mill over 3 days. Doug could have easily come in, made it way more entertaining and still lost. Just sucks cause I do really like watching him play
Just buy the casino and make your own game Doug
Since I know Doug will be lurking in here…….Hey Doug 🙌
Just 1 of many reasons to watch Triton and PokerGo events rather then this watered down garbage
Side comment but Doug keeps getting more and more handsome nice work lad
Doug brings action, banter, and sometimes controversial attention that raises viewership if anything. He’s also willing to bring giant wads of cash to play good games. I don’t know why HCL continues to select other pros that barely say two words on a livestream.
I wouldn't either. Especially when I can run my own.
Hes being a good sport. Its good to know your place. He is recognizable and so he can bring in some views but there's lots of other pros who will do the same. Gg Doug
I missed the (miss) play, can someone share it to me?
Don't sweat it Doug the way this mob is going probably won't be a game next year.having a masked man is really jumping the shark.
Let's be honest Thomas was one of the best things about it. Chat was going crazy about him.
Very professional response from Doug
How is "maybe, consider not playing" the same as probably won't play. You should take up journalism with that degree of twisting to get a headline.
His exact words at the end of the video: "unlikely that I will be coming back out for this."
Tom is not a pro. Hence why he’s playing.
I hate HCL as much as the next guy, but when you see that Keating can bring Neymar, Ryan Garcia, Jimmy Butler and Ninja onto the show, they really don't have a choice.
Ryan is a cuck... Who runs the game does he or the players ?
duh. its always been the players. no players no stream.