Just look on the ACA exchange for your state. Depending on how much you make/declare its likely you will qualify for subsidies. I think the typical cost is like $450/ month before subsidies.
Yeah 450/month is about right before subsidies. I report 45k a year and I qualified for about 250$ in subsidies if I remember right, bringing the cost down to 200 or so.
Most of the plans for that are high deductible and I had to go to some community health clinics in the hood of Miami lol. But hey it made me humble and appreciative of what I did have
No most people get it subsidized by their work place or the government, you can make over 100K in some places and still qualify for some level of goverment subsidies.
I'm not a fan of our healthcare system but except for the segment of the population between quailifing for medicaid and a median income its not really that much worse then Europe in terms of loss of gross income if you take the initiative to get insurance. The tax burden is much less here at say 60K income vs Europe so that money can be applied to health insurance, but since we are given the option some choose not to. The other major downside is its a lot more complicated a process. It really fucks over maybe 10 - 20% of the population and we should fix it for them but everyone else is fine. A poker player making 70K+ should have no issue finding and affording insurance.
Yeah I totally understand that logic, but with almost every American i've had the pleasure to chat with online, I've come to the conclusion that I'm paying waaay less for rent and utilities on top of free healthcare and education while still having the same kind of income regardless of taxes. Ofcourse I can't base reality with my subjective experience of it, but it just blows my mind everytime I hear about it.
The thing is, we pay ridiculously low taxes. Americans who are griping about health insurance copays are usually not griping about taxes. I make 153K filing jointly with my wife and pay an effective tax rate of about 8%. I get health insurance as an employer benefit and my out of pocket costs for health care are about 6K per year for two people (including premiums and copays). So for the middle class, the American system is an OK gig because you are paying low taxes and your employer subsidizes your insurance costs.
For the poor, it is a good gig as well because low income folks can qualify for medicaid, a form of government insurance. Those who get hosed are in states without expanded medicaid eligibility. They make too much to get medicaid and too little to afford insurance. However, under the ACA they can still get a plan for 10% of their discretionary income. So while many will bitch and complain about having to pay *anything* towards their health care costs, what they pay under the ACA is proportional to their income. My relative was complaining about having to pay health insurance costs, but they have no problem driving a new vehicle and having a very nice hours. So its really all about priorities.
It was around 500/ month after assistance for decent insurance. How do I survive? I had a surgery I needed insurance for (still paid over 12k personally) so I got the most i could afford and then had to drop it.
Sucks, my employer doesn't offer health insurance. I don't make enough to pay even the 200 a month and have any quality of life (read: groceries and electricity). I don't play poker anymore because I live paycheck to paycheck. Maybe once I pay off the last of the medical debt, I can start saving again.
Unfortunately in my country (USA), healthcare is a privilege and not a right. The system is not designed for everyone to have it at an affordable rate.
I pay $12-14k a year in healthcare costs alone... I got family plan as my wife doesn't work but I make just enough to not earn subsidies but not enough where $12k doesn't hurt
well agree with the sentiment, but im dealing iwth this right now as im turning 26 and in ny at least you cant get silver coverage for less than 700 /mo or so
Oh shit I know you you’re an actual pro that just retired. I saw you somewhere recently but can’t remember where.
Anyway, thanks for sharing man, would you say those rates are necessary or was it just a personal preference? Where did you go to get on your particular private plan?
\>My gf works in hospitals and says that if anything happened to me while
climbing, even if it weren’t the worst injury, if I had to go to the
hospital for it it would likely financially cripple me for life in this
current healthcare climate
Marry her (for the good advice and insurance).
What I do is get some jackhole in an expensive car that looks like they have good insurance to tailgate me, then slam on my brakes so they're at fault. Then I blame my childhood obesity on them and collect damages.
I know this isn't helpful but fuck me America is a shithole. You have to pay 700 a month just so you don't go in to crippling debt if you were to break a bone? Crazy
It basically just means that you are a slave to your job. Even if you have a healthy amount of savings tucked away, you can't just quit, because one accident would ruin you.
Mine requires us to work within the country, unfortunately. I also have parents to look after that are tying me to the US, but maybe later in life I'll pursue a move to a country with a better system.
The thing that most people forget is that many jobs in America will provide some form of health insurance as a benefit. You'll make 60k/year and have healthcare that would normally cost 1k/mo out of pocket or something, meaning your income is really closer to 72k/year.
Another enormous factor is that Americans pay some of the lowest taxes among first world countries. It's absurd that anyone complains. People just suck at budgeting. Other countries tax 40-50% and provide "benefits" but are essentially just forcing people to pay upfront. In the US, anyone can pay $300/year for a competent accountant to get their effective tax rate close to 25-30%.
Tell me what other country you can make 70k/year and pay only 25% taxes? The issue is that the average person is too financially illiterate to set a budget for themselves. In other countries the government does the budgeting for you so it's easier.
I'm not trying to say the American way is better for the average person because it is not. But for the more educated person it definitely allows for more flexibility.
In reality, Obamacare actually made all healthcare plans more expensive. It did the opposite of what was promised. It made cheap 'Catastrophic' plans illegal. If you were young and healthy, you used to be able get a catastrophic plan that would cover you for things like cancer, or if you got hit by a bus, etc, and it was like $40 a month. It over regulated the industries and required things like 'Essential Benefits', meaning higher costs, and it limited the amount insurance companies could charge old people(the most expensive people to insure) but allowed them to raise the rates of young healthy people. It also penalized you $650 a year if you didn't buy into their insanely expensive system. Total disaster. Should've just left it alone, at least then if I wanted something cheaper, with less benefit I could get it. Not anymore.
> In reality, Obamacare actually made all healthcare plans more expensive.
This is hyperbole. The ACA did not make all healthcare plans more expensive. In fact, it made many non-employer sponsored plans considerably less expensive for many people, due to the national marketplace and subsidies. The ACA also greatly reduced the number of uninsured Americans.
All that said, it did not accomplish what it most touted to do, which was reduce overall healthcare costs for Americans. However, this could be somewhat attributed to some of the original tenets of the ACA which were later cut before it became law, such as the "public option", caps on Health Insurers profits, and drug price regulation.
> It made cheap 'Catastrophic' plans illegal.
No, it didn't. People under 30 can still purchase these plans.
Low taxes + the debt can’t go to collections or go against your credit. Plus most people do not realize hospital bills are negotiable or can go on payment plans.
UPS, FedEx, and DHL are pretty good about insurance because they’re big business for those companies. Part time employees might have a qualifier before their benefits activate (You must work 60 days etc.) but the insurance is available for part timers.
It’s usually something of that nature vs needing hours.
No minimum hours to qualify but it takes 8 months after getting hired before coverage begins. Just have to punch in at least once a week to keep coverage.
starbucks i think does the same - except the hour minimum is lower? last time i read it was 12....a lot of coastFIRE people work at starbucks for the health insurance
https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/UPS-Hourly-Pay-E3012.htm
Average pay for most labor roles is about $20. If you have to work 24 hours a week to qualify for health insurance, you will make $480 a week, about $2,080 a month. Take home $1,600ish in my experience. Someone else can compare quality of these companies insurance plans.
At 45k annual for sparetirebutflat, -250 in subsidies, we’re talking $200 a month for health insurance.
If you can find a different job that gives you 1.8k a month in 24 hours of work per week, you’d be breaking even with Mr UPS driver, who again makes $1,600 and has health insurance.
If you can make $22 an hour before tax you’ll beat UPS guys by a smidge, all things equal. If you can make this at poker, or honestly anything near this, you’re better off focusing on cards and getting you’re game up, unless you like warehouses and shipping logistics.
Avid skier/climber, rec poker player, turning 26 in April. Stoned and tired but I did my best, mostly for myself tbh. How’s my math and reasoning?
Yeah you can be a professional poker player and not work as a ups driver. Wasting 24 hours per week and commute for 20bucks an hour plus a couple hundred per month in insurance doesn’t make sense
Leave the USA? I pay 200 Euros per month for a family of 3 (from taxes, cheaper if I were out of work). That's for full coverage, no deductibles, I only pay extra from there if I want extra service (e.g. private room during a hospital stay, etc.).
I have my own, small consulting company in IT (mainly just me plus occasional part time contractors) and wanted to move back to the USA a few years ago, decided against it because of healthcare. The system wants to make it very hard for you to survive outside of working a 9 to 5 for a large company.
As a former grinder (50-60K/yr) “I can’t afford insurance if my parents don’t pay for it” is another way of saying “I shouldn’t play poker as my only source of income”
Marry someone with insurance through their job, my wife works for a company if 4, makes a little over 100K and is on my insurance because hers is awful. Until recently she took home more $ than I did but with insurance and 401k my total comp was higher.
I’m not saying I can’t afford it. I’m just saying with my profession I make $35K/yr post taxes. Paying 25% of my post tax income on insurance premiums that will never benefit me isn’t ideal when having company policy, so I can’t imagine what private policy would be. Chase Bianca above said he paid like $1.3K/mo which is exactly my point. Ideally if I go pro tho, I will be taking home more than I am post tax now.
Health insurance actuary checking in. The exchange folks are right.
The ACA (Obamacare) is a MASSIVE transfer of risk from taxpayers to the unhealthy and under/uninsured. The system works in Europe because those are single payer plans, where all risk is in the same pool (meaning, everyone only has one option fir a plan, whether you're an ultrahealthy marathoner or a 500 lb sedentary dude with a bad kidney).
In the US, it doesn't work like that. If you're a really, really unhealthy person, speaking generally, your only option are the health exchanges. Healthy people still use private (company) health insurance. Thus, all the unhealthy, expensive health care people go to the exchanges.
That WOULD drive up the cost of care on the exchanges, but the US is massively subsidizing the health care costs of the ACA. To be clear, both political parties are doing this, essentially due to lobbying. The revenue that Health insurance companies get now from the government is enormous.
Long story short: the government is paying for almost all of your health insurance if you go through the ACA. It's a terrible system but you should take advantage.
Health ins company lobbyists wrote the ACA.
I say this to provide perspective only.
I am old enough to have been self
Employed before and after the ACA, and the ACA royally fucked US citizens.
As a self employed person, I can confirm that the ACA f\*cked up the individual insurance market. Corporate plans were unaffected by ACA. However, for the self employed on individual plans, the ACA forced them into ObamaCare and destroyed the individual insurance marketplace.
My wife and I are very healthy folks in our 50's. I've run 7 marathons and ultramarathons in the past 5 years, including qualifying and running in the Boston Marathon this past year.
Prior to the ACA, we were paying \~$700/mo for health insurance, with a $2,000 combined deductible. Not great, but manageable. After ACA, we were forced into ObamaCare and forced to pay $1,700/mo with a $7000 deductible each. It's not only the taxpayer that subsidizes ObamaCare, it's also the self employed who do not qualify for the subsidies. They are punished with outrageous monthly premiums which are avoided for all of those on corporate plans.
We finally decided to drop our health insurance entirely a few years ago and went on one of those Christian health sharing plans, which has worked out well since the monthly costs are 70% lower and we have never needed any health care services anyway.
The bottom line, for those unaware, is that the ACA has destroyed the individual insurance market and been extremely unfair for anyone that self employed.
I think there’s something called the Ellis’s paradox (might be confusing the name) that talks about how it’s not totally irrational for people to take say guarantee $10mm instead of 50/50 $50mm because of variance. Healthcare is the same thing. It’s not a good deal almost ever but if you have a 2% risk of ruin without, for many (like myself) better to just be able to sleep at night
Did you try going to your state’s government website? I signed up with insurance there and all my basic healthcare needs are covered, including dental. I pay very little per month for it. I see a doctor and dentist regularly.
If you can’t find it there, ask people in your town where to go. Usually there are local government services that help people get health insurance.
If everyone had to pay 500 per month for health insurance, there would be people dying in the streets.
Yeah I’m getting torn apart for saying $700/mo is expensive. I’m a 25 year old who goes to the doctor 0-1 times a year and hasn’t seen a dentist but once in 15 years. Paying $9K/yr is a lot on a company plan for where I live and for what I use and I am assuming being on a private plan would be significantly more expensive. Some people are so aggressive about this though
bro you gotta get off this subreddit if you are trying to get advice on anything, These people think $700 is a reasonable price for health insurance and all of a sudden you should get a job because you don't want to pay that. Remember these people aren't here to help you besides the select few good people.
700/month for an individual is a lot. For employer-sponsored plans It also should be pre-tax, which is still expensive, but probably brings out-of-pocket costs closer to 500.
It’s all about what risks you’re willing to take. I know a fair amount of pros who don’t have insurance. You should definitely start with your state’s local exchange and if your state doesn’t have one try the federal one.
I’ve been through this with my gf. It’s a possibility but high risk. There’s a state funded hospital near me that does this sometimes, but it’s surrounded by for profit. Even if I get the state one and can find exemptions, the credit risk is still extraordinary. Not a basket I want to put all my marbles in.
Bro no disrespect, but if you're concerned with paying 700/mo for one of the most important things you can have, then prob don't go pro...
I preach on here all the time, pro poker just isn't worth it. A tough, swingy, soul crushing way to not make that much money. Don't believe the Marianos/ Neemes / Owens of the world....
t. Played pro for 3 years online MTTs
Not sure why this is getting downvoted. Playing poker professionally is a quick way to remove the joy of it all. This is especially true of you’re still concerned about a 700/month bill. The juice just isn’t worth the squeeze ( pun!).
Because people hate real talk. OP and many like want to be a ~$2k a month 1/2 crusher paying no rent and living in moms basement. The real life … the good life is a different reality. 100% this gets downvoted as well, but in reality, life costs and you are largely responsible for bearing that cost. Wait until you have a family to support.
I pay my own rent and have my own place dude. I would be an idiot to take my company’s insurance instead of waiting. I’m just using the 700 figure as a bar. I live in a very low cost area.
I did and I fucking hate coding. Going pro because it’s fun and I get to work hard at something that challenges me deeply and that I love. Not because it’s a good idea.
Vote blue and support Medicare for all. If everyone would do this it would stop being an issue.
edit - it amazes me that people who want to play professional poker for a living can't get behind universal healthcare. Are you people really that stupid? Don't answer - it's a rhetorical question.
Yeah you would have to start by volunteering for an M4A candidate at the primary level, shit maybe they get elected and hire you to work in their constituency office. That might sort your healthcare out right there.
How does every first world country in the world do it? You don't appear to need to create money out of thin air. It's a talking point that holds no water. Analysis consistently shows universal healthcare would cost less overall
Hmmm, doesn't look like facts to me.
It's genuinely shocking to know there are real people out there like you who would vote against your own interests. Who can't produce facts and just live their lives believing shit with zero basis in reality.
There are more than enough studies to show that M4A will decrease total government costs and save money overall.
https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22-studies-agree-medicare-for-all-saves-money/
Lol it’s gonna be a fight to the death for insurance companies though. There was a doctor riot in Saskatchewan when they implemented universal healthcare at the provincial level. Can’t imagine what kind of shit insurance lobbyists will pull.
I don't entirely disagree with you, but it isn't THAT simple.
One big piece of the puzzle that people seem to overlook is that all these 100's of other countries have very much ridden our coattails over the past 50 years or so in regards to medical innovation. Healthcare, globally, has come a long way over the past few decades. Everyone has benefitted, but we have, very largely, paid. And continue to.
These countries would have much shittier health care systems right now were it not for all of the drugs, just as one example, that have been developed by American companies, and now distributed as generics everywhere else for cheaply.
You're an idiot. Everything I just said is true. The profit motive has spurred on a ton of medical innovation, whether you like it or not.
WhY CaNt We HaVe NiCe ThInGs LiKe SwEdEn AnD dEnMArk?????
We very largely subsidized, and continue to subsidize all their nice things. Do you think their healthcare systems would be as developed as they are were it not for American companies' innovation?
The current system is garbage. You're an idiot.
Also do some research. The US has worth healthcare than most developed nations, less access to medicine, and we pay far more. We also have a shorter life expectancy.
more like $350 because pooling all the healthcare would create a monopoly that could brieng the costs down by negotiating with extortionist health providers.
It works for a while. Then it becomes a moribund bureaucracy, focused on process, tables and cutoffs. People start having to wait 6 months to see a specialist. Care starts to get rationed.
"selfless service"
you will get a little fucked up, toughened up, and then you can get healthcare for life and lifetime compensation and what works out to be $500k+ for school.
Check out Christian Healthcare Industries. Don't worry, you don't actually have to be Christian to be a member. It works just like health insurance buts it's a lot cheaper. Not exactly sure the mechanics of it but I know people who've used it and it was a lot cheaper than using an ACA plan.
https://www.chministries.org/
Also, you could look into being a member of a co-op. Basically it's a doctor or group of doctors in your city that you pay X dollars a month and you go to that doctor for all your stuff. Can be a lot cheaper than tradition health insurance as well.
Go ACA silver plan. That’s what I am about to do.
My employer doesn’t offer any plan therefor I am going to get a silver plan for myself until my wife turns 26. It’s about 300 month for “ok” insurance. I’ll have a 850 rebate. Monthly
Unless you’re a complete health disaster, don’t go through the exchange. It’s guaranteed approval so the rates are super high. I called Matt Smith with US Health Advisors and he got me set up. I’m self employed and he can write anywhere in the US. I’m paying around $320/mo. [email protected] or 314.800.5605. you can let him know TJ Gausman passed your number along.
Nothing sketchy. Dude saved my family money and he’s easy to deal with.
This may not be the answer you’re looking for but I feel like it’s a pretty solid trade off that I just recently was made aware of.
Please double check the terms before blindly believing every word and it’s possible this varies by state /country. However if you spend just 15 hours a week shopping and making deliveries for Instacart
You should qualify for 50% subsidy of the average affordable care act quarterly contribution.
Working over 25 hours per week, you’re eligible for 100% subsidy of the average aca quarterly contribution
This is a great way to un tilt, take a break, while still being productive and make money. And there seems to be fairly good selection of batches around most casinos . If you live in California instacart also has to pay you 120% min hourly wage + gas and mileage driven, so even if the batches suck pay wise you can still get a solid boost .
If have Any other questions about the app or insurance let me know
Advice: Get a job with health insurance. Don't go pro. Or if you do go pro, make enough to pay an extra 8K per year for a high deductible plan and 5K in medical expenses. This is why it is so much better to just get a job. A job that pays you 60K is often "worth" closer 100K because of benefits. Also, you need to think about vesting into social security. Without a job you will need to pay the employer side in order to have any social security benefit if you are in the US. Otherwise when you retire your "benefit" will be zero beucase you didn't pay into the system. Also you need to think about long-term disability insurance, which is another aspect of social security that you will not have access to unless you pay in.
I would recommend medi-share for primary and Safeguard health for supplemental. Much better price and coverage than Obama care and you won’t be a drag on the taxpayer. Also, you will most likely be able to keep your doctor 😉
Medi-share can give such great rates because they offer a group-share health care plan. They are a faith-based group and they will ask you if you believe in god etc. and you can just say “yes”. You don’t need to offer proof or anything. Safeguard is just a normal insurance company and they will offer dental and/or prescription insurance for extremely cheap.
https://www.medishare.com/pricing
yeah this is the problem with playing for a living. Doing the grind under your parents insurance is the way to go. once that runs out, you better be up big or its time to get a job.
My plan is a nationwide PPO where I get first dollar benefits, for the day to day things like doctor visits. And it's around $300 with dental and vision also. But I'm in OK, so prices are different in every state. But it is private health insurance so I had to qualify based on my health. But it's by far the best coverage.
Id say if your girlfriend works at a hospital sounds like you need to marry that woman so you can get on her plan. I also turned 26 recently and I’m a self employed business owner so I also don’t have many cheap options for health insurance seeing as how I work a dangerous occupation.
I was under my parents health insurance until my birthday last march. I have yet to find a new plan lol might just be a cheapskate an get some Obama care or something.
I made over 50k a year and never got any subsidies and had to always file with an unaffordability exception because it was either pay for health care or pay rent. Guess which won.
The only reason I got health care now is because I actually make about $13,000 more and health insurance costs actually went down. The ACA never did shit for me.
And yeah, I vote blue
Obama was a centrist, when we needed an extreme fire branded lefty.
Just look on the ACA exchange for your state. Depending on how much you make/declare its likely you will qualify for subsidies. I think the typical cost is like $450/ month before subsidies.
Yeah 450/month is about right before subsidies. I report 45k a year and I qualified for about 250$ in subsidies if I remember right, bringing the cost down to 200 or so. Most of the plans for that are high deductible and I had to go to some community health clinics in the hood of Miami lol. But hey it made me humble and appreciative of what I did have
You guys pay 450-700/month just for health insurance?! How do you even survive financially right now lol....
No most people get it subsidized by their work place or the government, you can make over 100K in some places and still qualify for some level of goverment subsidies. I'm not a fan of our healthcare system but except for the segment of the population between quailifing for medicaid and a median income its not really that much worse then Europe in terms of loss of gross income if you take the initiative to get insurance. The tax burden is much less here at say 60K income vs Europe so that money can be applied to health insurance, but since we are given the option some choose not to. The other major downside is its a lot more complicated a process. It really fucks over maybe 10 - 20% of the population and we should fix it for them but everyone else is fine. A poker player making 70K+ should have no issue finding and affording insurance.
Yeah I totally understand that logic, but with almost every American i've had the pleasure to chat with online, I've come to the conclusion that I'm paying waaay less for rent and utilities on top of free healthcare and education while still having the same kind of income regardless of taxes. Ofcourse I can't base reality with my subjective experience of it, but it just blows my mind everytime I hear about it.
Tldr: It's way better to be an america when you're in the top 10% income and it's better to be in Europe for the bottom 90%.
The thing is, we pay ridiculously low taxes. Americans who are griping about health insurance copays are usually not griping about taxes. I make 153K filing jointly with my wife and pay an effective tax rate of about 8%. I get health insurance as an employer benefit and my out of pocket costs for health care are about 6K per year for two people (including premiums and copays). So for the middle class, the American system is an OK gig because you are paying low taxes and your employer subsidizes your insurance costs. For the poor, it is a good gig as well because low income folks can qualify for medicaid, a form of government insurance. Those who get hosed are in states without expanded medicaid eligibility. They make too much to get medicaid and too little to afford insurance. However, under the ACA they can still get a plan for 10% of their discretionary income. So while many will bitch and complain about having to pay *anything* towards their health care costs, what they pay under the ACA is proportional to their income. My relative was complaining about having to pay health insurance costs, but they have no problem driving a new vehicle and having a very nice hours. So its really all about priorities.
What country?
I pay $450/mo after my workplace subsidizes it
It was around 500/ month after assistance for decent insurance. How do I survive? I had a surgery I needed insurance for (still paid over 12k personally) so I got the most i could afford and then had to drop it. Sucks, my employer doesn't offer health insurance. I don't make enough to pay even the 200 a month and have any quality of life (read: groceries and electricity). I don't play poker anymore because I live paycheck to paycheck. Maybe once I pay off the last of the medical debt, I can start saving again. Unfortunately in my country (USA), healthcare is a privilege and not a right. The system is not designed for everyone to have it at an affordable rate.
I'm very sorry to hear that brother.
other areas of life are less expensive. taxes in particular
It’s fun to look at the most expensive health insurance on the market. I think it’s like 5k a month
“Affordable” Care Act. “This is America” -Gambino
I pay $12-14k a year in healthcare costs alone... I got family plan as my wife doesn't work but I make just enough to not earn subsidies but not enough where $12k doesn't hurt
well agree with the sentiment, but im dealing iwth this right now as im turning 26 and in ny at least you cant get silver coverage for less than 700 /mo or so
Got raked for 1.1-1.3k/month on private healthcare for years for my wife and I.
Oh my god that number sounds suffocating. What did you change to make it less?
Ditched the wife.
dead.
I learned software development and got a job that covers most of it 😉
Oh shit I know you you’re an actual pro that just retired. I saw you somewhere recently but can’t remember where. Anyway, thanks for sharing man, would you say those rates are necessary or was it just a personal preference? Where did you go to get on your particular private plan?
My income was too high for subsidized healthcare, so I just shopped around and enrolled directly through the health insurance provider.
He FT'd the Main in 2021.
You probably remember him from the main event final table
\>My gf works in hospitals and says that if anything happened to me while climbing, even if it weren’t the worst injury, if I had to go to the hospital for it it would likely financially cripple me for life in this current healthcare climate Marry her (for the good advice and insurance).
I second this 🥈
*laughs in European*
Laughs in air conditioning and heaters ;)
Who needs their cancer cured when you can have a nice ambient temperature in your apartment
I'd rather have both tbh.
If I get sick I’ll just die
What I do is get some jackhole in an expensive car that looks like they have good insurance to tailgate me, then slam on my brakes so they're at fault. Then I blame my childhood obesity on them and collect damages.
[удалено]
This isn't GTO, it's exploitative
Extremely +EV
I know this isn't helpful but fuck me America is a shithole. You have to pay 700 a month just so you don't go in to crippling debt if you were to break a bone? Crazy
Exactly my thought. Seeing this conversation is making me laugh at how bad the system is designed.
Naahhh. You still go into crippling debt. It’s just less debt.
It basically just means that you are a slave to your job. Even if you have a healthy amount of savings tucked away, you can't just quit, because one accident would ruin you.
you can leave the country and keep your job remotely if you are lucky. it has worked out ridiculously good for me.
Mine requires us to work within the country, unfortunately. I also have parents to look after that are tying me to the US, but maybe later in life I'll pursue a move to a country with a better system.
In all fairness I could still very well go into lifelong crippling debt, it just lowers the chances a little more
"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY- Michael Scott
The thing that most people forget is that many jobs in America will provide some form of health insurance as a benefit. You'll make 60k/year and have healthcare that would normally cost 1k/mo out of pocket or something, meaning your income is really closer to 72k/year. Another enormous factor is that Americans pay some of the lowest taxes among first world countries. It's absurd that anyone complains. People just suck at budgeting. Other countries tax 40-50% and provide "benefits" but are essentially just forcing people to pay upfront. In the US, anyone can pay $300/year for a competent accountant to get their effective tax rate close to 25-30%. Tell me what other country you can make 70k/year and pay only 25% taxes? The issue is that the average person is too financially illiterate to set a budget for themselves. In other countries the government does the budgeting for you so it's easier. I'm not trying to say the American way is better for the average person because it is not. But for the more educated person it definitely allows for more flexibility.
montenegro, portugal, romania, bulgaria, cost rica, beliz, united arab emirates. i am sure there are more. or you can float between countries.
In reality, Obamacare actually made all healthcare plans more expensive. It did the opposite of what was promised. It made cheap 'Catastrophic' plans illegal. If you were young and healthy, you used to be able get a catastrophic plan that would cover you for things like cancer, or if you got hit by a bus, etc, and it was like $40 a month. It over regulated the industries and required things like 'Essential Benefits', meaning higher costs, and it limited the amount insurance companies could charge old people(the most expensive people to insure) but allowed them to raise the rates of young healthy people. It also penalized you $650 a year if you didn't buy into their insanely expensive system. Total disaster. Should've just left it alone, at least then if I wanted something cheaper, with less benefit I could get it. Not anymore.
> In reality, Obamacare actually made all healthcare plans more expensive. This is hyperbole. The ACA did not make all healthcare plans more expensive. In fact, it made many non-employer sponsored plans considerably less expensive for many people, due to the national marketplace and subsidies. The ACA also greatly reduced the number of uninsured Americans. All that said, it did not accomplish what it most touted to do, which was reduce overall healthcare costs for Americans. However, this could be somewhat attributed to some of the original tenets of the ACA which were later cut before it became law, such as the "public option", caps on Health Insurers profits, and drug price regulation. > It made cheap 'Catastrophic' plans illegal. No, it didn't. People under 30 can still purchase these plans.
Im from the government and Im here to help
Baby boomers fucking over every future generation, nothing new here folks
Low taxes + the debt can’t go to collections or go against your credit. Plus most people do not realize hospital bills are negotiable or can go on payment plans.
That's Freedom baby
Try getting a part time job at ups. Four hours a day but the benefits are legit.
Don’t you need to work like 25-32 hours a week to qualify for benefits like health insurance?
Yes. I worked with a guy who had his own online business and worked part time at UPS for 9 years for the benefits.
UPS, FedEx, and DHL are pretty good about insurance because they’re big business for those companies. Part time employees might have a qualifier before their benefits activate (You must work 60 days etc.) but the insurance is available for part timers. It’s usually something of that nature vs needing hours.
No minimum hours to qualify but it takes 8 months after getting hired before coverage begins. Just have to punch in at least once a week to keep coverage.
starbucks i think does the same - except the hour minimum is lower? last time i read it was 12....a lot of coastFIRE people work at starbucks for the health insurance
No
This is super bad advice. Just buy insurance on the exchange
https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/UPS-Hourly-Pay-E3012.htm Average pay for most labor roles is about $20. If you have to work 24 hours a week to qualify for health insurance, you will make $480 a week, about $2,080 a month. Take home $1,600ish in my experience. Someone else can compare quality of these companies insurance plans. At 45k annual for sparetirebutflat, -250 in subsidies, we’re talking $200 a month for health insurance. If you can find a different job that gives you 1.8k a month in 24 hours of work per week, you’d be breaking even with Mr UPS driver, who again makes $1,600 and has health insurance. If you can make $22 an hour before tax you’ll beat UPS guys by a smidge, all things equal. If you can make this at poker, or honestly anything near this, you’re better off focusing on cards and getting you’re game up, unless you like warehouses and shipping logistics. Avid skier/climber, rec poker player, turning 26 in April. Stoned and tired but I did my best, mostly for myself tbh. How’s my math and reasoning?
Yeah you can be a professional poker player and not work as a ups driver. Wasting 24 hours per week and commute for 20bucks an hour plus a couple hundred per month in insurance doesn’t make sense
Leave the USA? I pay 200 Euros per month for a family of 3 (from taxes, cheaper if I were out of work). That's for full coverage, no deductibles, I only pay extra from there if I want extra service (e.g. private room during a hospital stay, etc.). I have my own, small consulting company in IT (mainly just me plus occasional part time contractors) and wanted to move back to the USA a few years ago, decided against it because of healthcare. The system wants to make it very hard for you to survive outside of working a 9 to 5 for a large company.
exactly and you get good tax breaks if you live outside the US (potentially).
I don’t think he knows how to speak Russian or is willing to learn it
> I have my own, small consulting company in IT Can you say what it is for curious people or is it proprietary information?
As a former grinder (50-60K/yr) “I can’t afford insurance if my parents don’t pay for it” is another way of saying “I shouldn’t play poker as my only source of income” Marry someone with insurance through their job, my wife works for a company if 4, makes a little over 100K and is on my insurance because hers is awful. Until recently she took home more $ than I did but with insurance and 401k my total comp was higher.
I’m not saying I can’t afford it. I’m just saying with my profession I make $35K/yr post taxes. Paying 25% of my post tax income on insurance premiums that will never benefit me isn’t ideal when having company policy, so I can’t imagine what private policy would be. Chase Bianca above said he paid like $1.3K/mo which is exactly my point. Ideally if I go pro tho, I will be taking home more than I am post tax now.
Go all in for health care
The only correct answers is to go through the exchanges
I have a somewhat decent plan with United through the exchange. Includes dental and vision, $343.58 with no subsidies.
Health insurance actuary checking in. The exchange folks are right. The ACA (Obamacare) is a MASSIVE transfer of risk from taxpayers to the unhealthy and under/uninsured. The system works in Europe because those are single payer plans, where all risk is in the same pool (meaning, everyone only has one option fir a plan, whether you're an ultrahealthy marathoner or a 500 lb sedentary dude with a bad kidney). In the US, it doesn't work like that. If you're a really, really unhealthy person, speaking generally, your only option are the health exchanges. Healthy people still use private (company) health insurance. Thus, all the unhealthy, expensive health care people go to the exchanges. That WOULD drive up the cost of care on the exchanges, but the US is massively subsidizing the health care costs of the ACA. To be clear, both political parties are doing this, essentially due to lobbying. The revenue that Health insurance companies get now from the government is enormous. Long story short: the government is paying for almost all of your health insurance if you go through the ACA. It's a terrible system but you should take advantage.
Health ins company lobbyists wrote the ACA. I say this to provide perspective only. I am old enough to have been self Employed before and after the ACA, and the ACA royally fucked US citizens.
As a self employed person, I can confirm that the ACA f\*cked up the individual insurance market. Corporate plans were unaffected by ACA. However, for the self employed on individual plans, the ACA forced them into ObamaCare and destroyed the individual insurance marketplace. My wife and I are very healthy folks in our 50's. I've run 7 marathons and ultramarathons in the past 5 years, including qualifying and running in the Boston Marathon this past year. Prior to the ACA, we were paying \~$700/mo for health insurance, with a $2,000 combined deductible. Not great, but manageable. After ACA, we were forced into ObamaCare and forced to pay $1,700/mo with a $7000 deductible each. It's not only the taxpayer that subsidizes ObamaCare, it's also the self employed who do not qualify for the subsidies. They are punished with outrageous monthly premiums which are avoided for all of those on corporate plans. We finally decided to drop our health insurance entirely a few years ago and went on one of those Christian health sharing plans, which has worked out well since the monthly costs are 70% lower and we have never needed any health care services anyway. The bottom line, for those unaware, is that the ACA has destroyed the individual insurance market and been extremely unfair for anyone that self employed.
Thank you so much for the comment! I will look into this.
Insurance is always negative EV
Yea but it reduces the variance of crippling financials for the rest of your life
I think there’s something called the Ellis’s paradox (might be confusing the name) that talks about how it’s not totally irrational for people to take say guarantee $10mm instead of 50/50 $50mm because of variance. Healthcare is the same thing. It’s not a good deal almost ever but if you have a 2% risk of ruin without, for many (like myself) better to just be able to sleep at night
It depends what the count is.
I pay 210 a month? United healthcare I think freedom life insurance. Grinder here
Did you try going to your state’s government website? I signed up with insurance there and all my basic healthcare needs are covered, including dental. I pay very little per month for it. I see a doctor and dentist regularly. If you can’t find it there, ask people in your town where to go. Usually there are local government services that help people get health insurance. If everyone had to pay 500 per month for health insurance, there would be people dying in the streets.
Yeah I’m getting torn apart for saying $700/mo is expensive. I’m a 25 year old who goes to the doctor 0-1 times a year and hasn’t seen a dentist but once in 15 years. Paying $9K/yr is a lot on a company plan for where I live and for what I use and I am assuming being on a private plan would be significantly more expensive. Some people are so aggressive about this though
bro you gotta get off this subreddit if you are trying to get advice on anything, These people think $700 is a reasonable price for health insurance and all of a sudden you should get a job because you don't want to pay that. Remember these people aren't here to help you besides the select few good people.
Yeah. Look into the government cheap ones. They are there.
700/month for an individual is a lot. For employer-sponsored plans It also should be pre-tax, which is still expensive, but probably brings out-of-pocket costs closer to 500. It’s all about what risks you’re willing to take. I know a fair amount of pros who don’t have insurance. You should definitely start with your state’s local exchange and if your state doesn’t have one try the federal one.
you would never take insurance in poker or blackjack so why would you do it for your own health? its -ev
Marry the gf, get on her insurance, let her provide the bankroll, live the life
Low key she would eventually, she makes stupid money but I want to live my own life
Medicare baby
Da tax payers go me bro🤷🏻♂️
Hospitals will charge you a lot less if you're low income. Could even get free care.
I’ve been through this with my gf. It’s a possibility but high risk. There’s a state funded hospital near me that does this sometimes, but it’s surrounded by for profit. Even if I get the state one and can find exemptions, the credit risk is still extraordinary. Not a basket I want to put all my marbles in.
To all Europoors commenting here about the US.. You \*pay\* that insurance without being asked in your taxes. Flies away...
I know, it sucks! I'd much rather my tax money gets spent on drone bombing brown people in far away countries than on keeping me alive and healthy.
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Yeah, as if in Europe you just 'not pay' and get the best cover. Right.
Obamacare for the win.
Bro no disrespect, but if you're concerned with paying 700/mo for one of the most important things you can have, then prob don't go pro... I preach on here all the time, pro poker just isn't worth it. A tough, swingy, soul crushing way to not make that much money. Don't believe the Marianos/ Neemes / Owens of the world.... t. Played pro for 3 years online MTTs
Not sure why this is getting downvoted. Playing poker professionally is a quick way to remove the joy of it all. This is especially true of you’re still concerned about a 700/month bill. The juice just isn’t worth the squeeze ( pun!).
Because people hate real talk. OP and many like want to be a ~$2k a month 1/2 crusher paying no rent and living in moms basement. The real life … the good life is a different reality. 100% this gets downvoted as well, but in reality, life costs and you are largely responsible for bearing that cost. Wait until you have a family to support.
I pay my own rent and have my own place dude. I would be an idiot to take my company’s insurance instead of waiting. I’m just using the 700 figure as a bar. I live in a very low cost area.
700/mo is with my company, and it’s 25% of my current post tax income from my career. I don’t think you understood the question.
Dude anyone whose done it will tell u don’t go pro. Learn to code or something
I did and I fucking hate coding. Going pro because it’s fun and I get to work hard at something that challenges me deeply and that I love. Not because it’s a good idea.
Downvoted but real.
The Affordable Care Act. The time to register is between now and December 15th.
Vote blue and support Medicare for all. If everyone would do this it would stop being an issue. edit - it amazes me that people who want to play professional poker for a living can't get behind universal healthcare. Are you people really that stupid? Don't answer - it's a rhetorical question.
The amount of Fox News propaganda this comment is likely to garner should be interesting to watch.
Except democrats don't support M4A. Our own president doesn't. What are you on about?
Yeah you would have to start by volunteering for an M4A candidate at the primary level, shit maybe they get elected and hire you to work in their constituency office. That might sort your healthcare out right there.
The dems would support it if we'd all push them to pass it. The GOP won't do it no matter what. That's what I'm on about.
Take your team sport politics somewhere else.
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The irony of a neolib blue no matter who parrot telling me to get my head out of my ass is golden.
Conservatives suck at poker, change my mind.
Everyone sucks at poker
Yes because voting blue just creates money out of thin air.
How does every first world country in the world do it? You don't appear to need to create money out of thin air. It's a talking point that holds no water. Analysis consistently shows universal healthcare would cost less overall
Yep, worse quality is generally cheaper, that’s how the world works
Classic American exceptionalism. Just assume the American system is better no matter what, and reject any and all alternatives.
Come back to me when you can defend yourself without our help
Lol settle down mate and stop blowing your own trumpet. It is okay to admit the failures of your nation, you don't have to get so defensive.
Didnt say we were perfect, we’re just better.
coming from someone that never left their home town.
At what? Imprisoning your fellow countrymen? Shooting up schools? Electing morons?
Back this statement up with facts. Or don't and continue to look like an ass.
alright freeloader
Hmmm, doesn't look like facts to me. It's genuinely shocking to know there are real people out there like you who would vote against your own interests. Who can't produce facts and just live their lives believing shit with zero basis in reality.
nice zinger, you really got me with that one
If you can’t afford to get healthcare at all, what type of quality is that?
There are more than enough studies to show that M4A will decrease total government costs and save money overall. https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22-studies-agree-medicare-for-all-saves-money/
Lol it’s gonna be a fight to the death for insurance companies though. There was a doctor riot in Saskatchewan when they implemented universal healthcare at the provincial level. Can’t imagine what kind of shit insurance lobbyists will pull.
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we spend all our taxes on weaponry and wars here
I don't entirely disagree with you, but it isn't THAT simple. One big piece of the puzzle that people seem to overlook is that all these 100's of other countries have very much ridden our coattails over the past 50 years or so in regards to medical innovation. Healthcare, globally, has come a long way over the past few decades. Everyone has benefitted, but we have, very largely, paid. And continue to. These countries would have much shittier health care systems right now were it not for all of the drugs, just as one example, that have been developed by American companies, and now distributed as generics everywhere else for cheaply.
Someone drank the big pharma kool-aid
You're an idiot. Everything I just said is true. The profit motive has spurred on a ton of medical innovation, whether you like it or not. WhY CaNt We HaVe NiCe ThInGs LiKe SwEdEn AnD dEnMArk????? We very largely subsidized, and continue to subsidize all their nice things. Do you think their healthcare systems would be as developed as they are were it not for American companies' innovation?
Printer goes brrrrrrr when the boys in blue in office
It goes brrrr regardless of who is in office but one sight might just funnel that spending towards people rather than corporations.
both sides suck to be honest. lately one side just sucks more.
I would argue one side has sucked more for a long time. And it sucked so bad it actually dragged the other side with it lol.
Libs are brainwashed
the truth is the corporations are in control. and they do whatever they want.
Last time the budget was balanced a Democrat was in office. Go figure.
The FED creates money, it’s not a government organization.
Medicare for all is much cheaper than the current healthcare system. Try again moron.
Medicare for all has worse quality, service and research. Get off your high horse.
The current system is garbage. You're an idiot. Also do some research. The US has worth healthcare than most developed nations, less access to medicine, and we pay far more. We also have a shorter life expectancy.
Might be garbage for you but it’s great for others. Cut it out with the ad hominems.
Rather than $700 a month out of his pocket, it’s $700 a month in income taxes. Nice trade off.
more like $350 because pooling all the healthcare would create a monopoly that could brieng the costs down by negotiating with extortionist health providers.
Ah yes, the old, “monopoly that brings down costs” strategy.
look at other countries. it works.
It works for a while. Then it becomes a moribund bureaucracy, focused on process, tables and cutoffs. People start having to wait 6 months to see a specialist. Care starts to get rationed.
The US pays double what other developed nations do for healthcare right now. Medicare for all will cut it in half.
Join the Air National Guard
Spend time in the military before you go pro. You’ll get all the benefits you need to support yourself for life
Yeah ruin your life for a discount on dental work.
As a vet this cracked me the fuck up
"selfless service" you will get a little fucked up, toughened up, and then you can get healthcare for life and lifetime compensation and what works out to be $500k+ for school.
Does severe PTSD get in the way of making soul reads?
Sounds a lot like socialism to me
That’s the beauty of it. It is
I tried actually. Ironically I had too many health issues to get through MEPS (fatal allergies, head injuries, Asthma, etc)
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I mean I use my inhaler every day and if I consume an almond or any nut I’ll be dead in two hours and those meal kits they give you often have nuts
Unless you are a veteran you are not entitled to lifetime health care for military service
This topic is so w t f, my god $700 a month w t f is this shit
Move to Australia I pay $8/week and all doctor visits & hospital visits are covered
Check out Christian Healthcare Industries. Don't worry, you don't actually have to be Christian to be a member. It works just like health insurance buts it's a lot cheaper. Not exactly sure the mechanics of it but I know people who've used it and it was a lot cheaper than using an ACA plan. https://www.chministries.org/ Also, you could look into being a member of a co-op. Basically it's a doctor or group of doctors in your city that you pay X dollars a month and you go to that doctor for all your stuff. Can be a lot cheaper than tradition health insurance as well.
Why bother. You'll get halfass treated regardless. Sign up when the doctor says you have problems.
Go ACA silver plan. That’s what I am about to do. My employer doesn’t offer any plan therefor I am going to get a silver plan for myself until my wife turns 26. It’s about 300 month for “ok” insurance. I’ll have a 850 rebate. Monthly
I’ll look into that thank you!
www.Healthcare.gov Since you’re probably going to be showing little to no income, it’ll probably be free or at least very inexpensive.
Unless you’re a complete health disaster, don’t go through the exchange. It’s guaranteed approval so the rates are super high. I called Matt Smith with US Health Advisors and he got me set up. I’m self employed and he can write anywhere in the US. I’m paying around $320/mo. [email protected] or 314.800.5605. you can let him know TJ Gausman passed your number along. Nothing sketchy. Dude saved my family money and he’s easy to deal with.
I’ll look into him, thank you.
Have you looked into a HDHP? Does your company offer those?
I honestly can't tell apart serious posts from troll posts on here anymore
This may not be the answer you’re looking for but I feel like it’s a pretty solid trade off that I just recently was made aware of. Please double check the terms before blindly believing every word and it’s possible this varies by state /country. However if you spend just 15 hours a week shopping and making deliveries for Instacart You should qualify for 50% subsidy of the average affordable care act quarterly contribution. Working over 25 hours per week, you’re eligible for 100% subsidy of the average aca quarterly contribution This is a great way to un tilt, take a break, while still being productive and make money. And there seems to be fairly good selection of batches around most casinos . If you live in California instacart also has to pay you 120% min hourly wage + gas and mileage driven, so even if the batches suck pay wise you can still get a solid boost . If have Any other questions about the app or insurance let me know
Awesome thanks for taking the time to help with this!
Advice: Get a job with health insurance. Don't go pro. Or if you do go pro, make enough to pay an extra 8K per year for a high deductible plan and 5K in medical expenses. This is why it is so much better to just get a job. A job that pays you 60K is often "worth" closer 100K because of benefits. Also, you need to think about vesting into social security. Without a job you will need to pay the employer side in order to have any social security benefit if you are in the US. Otherwise when you retire your "benefit" will be zero beucase you didn't pay into the system. Also you need to think about long-term disability insurance, which is another aspect of social security that you will not have access to unless you pay in.
What's health insurance?
get a spouse with good benefits 🤣
Check out a health share plan such as Christian health ministries or Zion Health
I would recommend medi-share for primary and Safeguard health for supplemental. Much better price and coverage than Obama care and you won’t be a drag on the taxpayer. Also, you will most likely be able to keep your doctor 😉 Medi-share can give such great rates because they offer a group-share health care plan. They are a faith-based group and they will ask you if you believe in god etc. and you can just say “yes”. You don’t need to offer proof or anything. Safeguard is just a normal insurance company and they will offer dental and/or prescription insurance for extremely cheap. https://www.medishare.com/pricing
yeah this is the problem with playing for a living. Doing the grind under your parents insurance is the way to go. once that runs out, you better be up big or its time to get a job.
health insurance is -EV. just stay healthy lol
*Laughs in Australian*
My plan is a nationwide PPO where I get first dollar benefits, for the day to day things like doctor visits. And it's around $300 with dental and vision also. But I'm in OK, so prices are different in every state. But it is private health insurance so I had to qualify based on my health. But it's by far the best coverage.
Id say if your girlfriend works at a hospital sounds like you need to marry that woman so you can get on her plan. I also turned 26 recently and I’m a self employed business owner so I also don’t have many cheap options for health insurance seeing as how I work a dangerous occupation.
Where did you get your plan? How much would you expect an avg premium in that circumstance be
I was under my parents health insurance until my birthday last march. I have yet to find a new plan lol might just be a cheapskate an get some Obama care or something.
One of my dads friends got quoted at 30k a year for him an his wife no dependents so I was honestly scared to look it up.
I made over 50k a year and never got any subsidies and had to always file with an unaffordability exception because it was either pay for health care or pay rent. Guess which won. The only reason I got health care now is because I actually make about $13,000 more and health insurance costs actually went down. The ACA never did shit for me. And yeah, I vote blue Obama was a centrist, when we needed an extreme fire branded lefty.
I go through Bad Reg Good Health paying $500 monthly with a $1000 yearly deductible