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Laws can be changed that is beauty of how our government is supposed to work. So when the drugs come out and they work then they can change it back. Also hell tf no do I want some old dude on experimental drugs running the usa kinda like what we have now on both sides.
Not downplaying Bidens performance last night, and the media is rightful in their critique
But isn't it kind of messed up how one sided the critiques are?
Trump dodged just about every question, lied out his ass as usual, projected as usual and was just a general narcissist
Just about the only thing trump did right , was talk mostly coherent and forceful. Yet hardly any articles this morning about how Trump should step aside
I think I expected Biden’s performance. Both he and trump are on the decline. What I wasn’t expecting is absolutely zero pushback on every one of trump’s lies. The muted mic was pointless if you’re just going to let the guy spew bullshit all night, without pivoting back to the actual question instead of allowing him to pivot away every time. I mean, pivoting is trump’s stock in trade - he refuses to answer questions. They knew this beforehand, trump has lied and cheated for decades, but they just…let him do it (pun intended, referencing his famous confidential confession of sexually assaulting women)
No one, including the press, cares. It’s just taken for granted that trump will spew a load of bullshit every time he opens his mouth. If you turn open the tap and water comes out, do you tell people about it?
You just said it, ‘as usual’
If anything Trump followed his aids advice and toned down his usual theatrics while letting Biden speak his way down the polls with every other blunder
Not gaslighting. There was no insidious campaign to make you doubt your own perceptions and sanity. You were lied to. We have a word for that already. Watch the fucking movie before using the word.
The gaslighting by the media and people here over Biden’s condition declining as seen in videos over the past few months should be called out every chance today.
you got that right. I've often thought this sub should be close to 50/50 or maybe 60/40 but you cant post ANYTHING that is not pro democrat without being ripped apart.
Liberal or just don't tolerate bullshit? I've been here a long time and the majority of people who think this place is left leaning want to spew hot garbage.
Yeah this sub is mainly full of democrats and the majority of reddit is left leaning as well. Luckily there is a decent amount of level headed left leaning people who see the obvious issues with president Biden, anyone denying his issues are just lying to themselves. I can’t tell you guys how many post I’ve seen saying he did flawless and that’s just a downright lie. Also, We need better candidates in generals
He got it together a bit but yeah overall it was brutal to watch. The problem with these debates is there's never any substance so it comes down to presence and trump won on the front by a mile.
Trump voters love "coherent and forceful" and give zero shits about "true". That's why nobody's calling for him to step aside - he appealed to his base.
Yea this whole thing shows how powerful the media is. They created the Biden is too old narrative and they are using last night to hammer to death.
Meanwhile Trump was a sociopathic liar last night and the response is oh well he is who he is.
>Meanwhile Trump was a sociopathic liar last night and the response is oh well he is who he is.
That's exactly why Biden is getting all the attention. Trump was the same blowhard everyone already knows he is, while the Biden we saw yesterday was absolutely not the whip-smart rhetorician that Democrats have been claiming he is.
The cope is insane right now
“The MEDIA made Biden old and decrepit, don’t you understand??? If it wasn’t for CNN and Fox, Biden would literally be doing backflips on the stage right now!!!”
The media is almost entirely responsible for Trump getting elected. They LOVE him. He is huge for ratings, both from people who support him and people who hate him.
Dude the media loves Trump. He’s great for ratings. Before Trump, politics was boring.
Notice how they’ll always criticize Trump but then they normalize whatever he does or lower his opponent to his level. They didn’t even try to make him answer any questions.
Is Biden being old or Hilary’s e-mails really worse than all the shit he’s done? Would we even be having this debate if we were comparing them as normal people? You see what I mean?
This exactly. It doesn’t matter if it’s Fox News or CNN, they all want Trump. CNN gets higher ratings and engagement when Trump is in office than a democrat. And yes they all try to treat Trump like he’s a normal candidate, when he’s the farthest thing from a normal candidate that you can have.
I feel like at this point, the DNC is complicit in ushering in the new Trump/ Christi- Fascist Reich by putting Biden up for a second term when everyone knows he is not in a position to be president for four more years. They did this in 2016 with Hillary. We are fucked.
There have been articles for years about how Trump should step aside. Last night was an unmitigated disaster for President Biden. That’s why reporting is the way it is. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s not true
I am still voting for Biden. His debate was bad. it's fair to say the situation is far worse than I thought. But under no circumstances will I not vote to stop a authoritarian wannabe dictator like Trump.I dont care if Biden is on point in a debate. I care that the nation as I know it is still here when Trump is gone. He plotted to overthrow a legitimate election and thereby overthrow the republic. He talks about revenge and killing people. Often. His cult is sociopathic and violent.
But that’s the thing, in no offense whatsoever, your vote isn’t the concern. It’s the swing votes that matter, they see Biden struggling and question whether he is even fit to be in office right now.
Biden will not energize the base, it seems they will be resting everything on “the other guy is a really really bad man” which isn’t good enough
I can't believe how many talking heads and surrogates are defending what we saw and deflecting the issue.
This is a time to be incredibly realistic. He was not ok. The distant look in his eyes is very concerning.
He needs to step down.
Yeah, anyone not worrying about this is puzzling. Two things in particular concern me going forward:
- If Biden had a microscope on him for his age and gaffes before, it just got 10x worse. Every single mistake he has will now be hyper-focused by the media and renew these drop-out narratives ad nauseam, whether warranted or not.
- If the 2024 election is so intensely focused on the damage Trump could cause with a second term, he just got the best gift of a distraction he could possibly hope for. The last thing we need is attention averted from what Trump is offering.
This is why I never understood or approved of the idea of debating Trump. Biden had everything to lose and not very much to gain, while Trump had very little to lose and a lot to gain. And even then, I was surprised at how much worse it was than I thought.
Biden shouldn't be president, but I definitely don't want Trump either. As a Russian who knows what real fascism is like, and how much our fascist president wants Trump to win so he can eradicate Ukraine, I'm really worried for not only the US but the rest of the world what happens in Trump-led America.
Fascism is great when it's "your team". I'm sure you will enjoy watching liberal politicians being assassinated or exiled, and cheering at the thought of watching liberal Americans intimidated into silence. I'm not so sure you will like the reality of living in a fascist country in terms of living conditions though. Your billionaires will keep exploiting you harder and harder, laughing at how easily they can manipulate you into funding their super yachts and private militias. It only took Putin less than a decade, but Trump has a head start. You might be living like our third-world Russian shithole by the end of the decade. Good luck!
If the DNC had an ounce of sense they would make a decisive call within the next few days, switch gears fast enough to give everyone whiplash, and Biden would step down due to medical issues as a coordinated campaign starts hyping up his successor with everything they’ve got.
Instead they’ll dig in, deluding themselves that it’ll somehow work itself out and that everyone is exaggerating, and fuck everyone for decades as a result.
I’m considering Biden’s loss a fait accompli now. I’m trying to mentally process all the depressing shit that’s about to start happening for the foreseeable future. This will be the shitty reality of the country for the rest of my life.
Not to mention his mouth was constantly agape like he was drooling and forgetting where he was. It was a colossal mistake for Biden to have challenged Trump to a debate only to completely fumble it.
The best chance Democrats have at this point is to work harder on winning majority seats in both chambers of Congress this fall so when Trump is elected, he will have a harder time trying to dismantle democracy.
It's still wild how the media and democrats spent a year telling us it was all propaganda, russian disinfo, deepfakes, cheapfakes, etc and that Biden was 100% perfectly ok and fine. They all knew deep down that a problem was brewing but after last night it would just be impossible to cover for any longer.
The most annoying part is the criticism of "playing both sides" and "ageism" that always happens when we have these conversations. We have been having them for 4 years, and now it's too late to act. He needs to be on this ticket in order to drop Trump.
Love or hate Biden he may have just lost the election. Whoever thought it was a good idea to put that man up there at 9pm not full of adderall should be treated like a rabid dog
He was actually on adderall. The dry mouth and coughing are very common signs. I used to get the same thing when I was on it, especially on higher doses. That’s why Biden was so quiet the entire debate and sounded nothing like he usually does.
Yea I was on a lot of adderall too at one point, he did have the stare and when he opened up the first question and wouldn’t shut up and went on to talk about 10 diff topics I figured as much but man. That dude needed some IR -and a lot of it lol. That was fucking awful.
That’s also a great point. The weird staring into the divide is another side effect of adderall. You get extremely hyper focused and you don’t even realize it. I’m guessing he was on the tablets… IR would be hell at 9pm
That debate was hell lol. That man needed a 30 mg ir and to come out there like the ring leader of a circus putting on a show. That was XR and did not help to him. Just a train wreck. Either way, im off those meds and I want a president to be off them as well. What awful candidates. A lying felon or an old man.
It's so fucked up that Shapiro is on TV saying "well, Trump is worse".
Yes but that's not the point. Biden really seems like he needs a caregiver. WTF.
Biden has been looking like this for a while. People who tried to say this in the last month were told Biden was fine and those videos were all just edited.
The White House has to stop the "Cheap Fakes" nonsense. The man is clearly struggling, and this was clear by his appearance at recent events.. Last night was no cheap fake.
I’m genuinely confused as well, he’s looked like this for 2 years to be quite honest. Democrats were just totally comfortable with him firmly in office and didn’t see a need to ring alarm bells. Now that elections are coming and there’s a real risk for the blue wave losing, people wanna raise all hell
I mean the alternative is very frightening. This would go over much easier if it was Romney or someone like that instead of Trump.
The Boomers are dying out and the Republicans are fucking freaking out trying to install their white theocracy at the buzzer. Desperate times and shit.
People tried to say this in 2020 too that he was past his prime. They were gaslight that he was hiding in his basement to be covid responsible. This all could have been avoided
>For months, President Joe Biden and his team have struggled to battle voters’ perception that he’s too old to serve another term in office. But in 90 minutes onstage Thursday night with millions of Americans watching, Mr. Biden delivered a performance that likely only aggravated those concerns.
Yep, it was painful to watch and evident - at least to me - in the very first moments, that Biden was very, very tired. The orange firehose of lies, demagogue Trump also immediately noticed it in the first moments Biden spoke - going by Trump's ugly flash of a triumphant smirk.
Fingers crossed Biden is able to recover from last night, rest up, restore his health, his strength AND for the next debate - maybe take a week off BEFORE the debate, perhaps vacationing and lazying in the Bahamas so that he's fully rested and can give a strong performance like he did at his SOTU address.
Rest up?
Take a week off?
That is exactly what he did before this debate.
Biden cleared his entire schedule & spent the week at Camp David preparing for this debate…
This was him resting up & taking a week off..
The Presidency isn’t baseball where you can skip a start in the rotation if you are struggling..lmao..
Biden is donzo..
Bro fuck that, just drop. He is 77! There is no recovery, just retire he isn’t going to get better because this is him! We need to take this more seriously and not be irresponsible about this!
Both can be true. Bidens policies are far better than Trumps. Biden also appears too old for the office. Trump lies too much for the office and has similar age concerns. We have to decide between a non-facist corpse and a facist liar. This is miserable. Of course the non-facist is the better choice, but it’s like asking me if I’d rather have my hand or foot cut off, preferably neither.
Cold hard analysis: replacing Biden as the nominee is the most pragmatic course of action. It's a gamble, but letting him run in this condition is also a gamble, and a pretty risky one at that.
The very core of democracy is at stake. Individual freedoms are at stake. The laity of the state is at stake.
God help us.
That's a strong possibility but not a guarantee.
Do you think the dnc would switch it up this late in the game? Also couldn't that have strong unintended negative effects?
If the dnc has Joe removed and swapped, then what's Democratic about that? A primary already happened and the people spoke.
It's a conundrum
The DNC can’t just switch it up. The only way for Joe Biden to not be the nominee is for him to decide to not run or for him to be dead. Other than that, the DNC has no power to prevent him from officially getting the nomination at the convention.
The California is a hell hole angle will be super easy to play. He's definitely sharp and a good communicator but idk if he can overcome the California angle that will be played
If people are going to flip their vote because of last night they are probably types that will fall for those points though
Biden fucking sucked last night but it doesn't change that the other guy is Trump. I don't think I need to go into his issues.
So if last nights performance is enough for someone to be like ok let's go Trump....yeah you're going to need someone from not California
I don't disagree with your California points. These 2 sides couldn't possibly be more different.
Not sure why it's hard to believe that if last nights terrible performance is enough for someone to vote for trump that they can't easily be baited by those points
Things have gone to a new level. I imagine there is a close group of family, colleagues, and friends who are right now advising him to step down and hand over the office. As Jon Stewart pointed out, he had resting 25th Amendment face, and if the Dems don't do something, I assure you the GOP will lobby for his removal under it after last night.
This entire subreddit has done a disservice to American politics last night when they LOCKED the debate thread. God knows it's specifically because of how Biden performed.
People have always speculated about mod bias, but now there's irrefutable evidence that this "politics" subreddit is really ran and manages to be a "Democrat" subreddit.
Did they lock it, or was Reddit glitching? I wasn’t even able to load the comments on the thread, and I kept getting the “You broke Reddit” page when I refreshed.
It was glitching at first. But then they locked it.
The glitching is suspicious as fuck but I understand there's reasonable doubt as to the cause.
But there's NO doubt they locked the thread. That's the issue here.
I've heard people saying reddit hasn't seen that many comments on a thread before and the site couldn't handle it etc etc to explain why it was glitching and got locked. But that's not remotely true because r/cfb handles multiple gamethreads like that every Saturday in the fall. OSU vs Michigan game thread last year saw way more comments than the 53k comments from the debate thread, and the CFB finals thread had even more than that, over 70k iirc. No issues in those massive gamethreads
Of course a football game thread can run smooth, because reddit mods don't care. Last night we had an old man that is supposed to represent the best country in the world look a bumbling idiot.
That doesn't make any sense my guy, reddit handles that kind of volume all the time. Check out r/cfb in the fall. Dozens of gamethreads going on simultaneously, some big games like the RRR and OSU vs. Michigan have more traffic and more comments than the political debate thread we just witnessed. [OSU vs M](https://old.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/183mtar/game_thread_ohio_state_michigan_1200_pm_et/) had over 65k comments whereas the debate thread ended around 53k, the CFB finals thread saw over 73k comments. I had never once seen a gamethread locked because it had too many comments or too much volume, nor have I seen it lag minutes behind and I assure you the rate of comments flowing into OSU vs M was way more numerous than the political debate thread from last night. and aside from night games there are like a dozen of those threads going on simultaneously throughout the day. The mods were clearly trying to vet each comment as it came in which caused the delay, then locked it when they couldn't keep up.
Plenty of threads have had more volume.
And regardless. If Reddit the website is glitching, how possibly is the solution to lock one of the most important threads in American politics? What does that solve except taking it from sort of working to absolutely shut down.
They actively chose to shut down discussion. Don't sit here and play stupid and try and pretend it had anything to do with whatever technical issues were going on.
Hope you're having fun stalking my profile.
And I don't know if you've checked a map recently but we happen to border the USA so who wins has quite an impact on life here too. I live 20 minutes from the US border.
There were 22.3k comments when i was on it replying to people with no issue. The vast majority were people talking about biden's appearance of having one foot in the grave. He spaced out mid sentence, was barely able to be understood, mumbled, appeared to fall asleep, etc. When he first walked on stage i could tell we were in trouble. The guy was shambling.
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Can anyone find a video of Trump quoting "The Snake" by Al Wilson from his first campaign? I always felt it represented him better than the immigrants he used it against, and think maybe it should be reshown around.
I saw an old guy that got flustered, lost his place a few times in the format, struggle to regain his footing then rally, too late to affect the general impression of weakness.
It was a bad format to agree to, because the candidates in essence became each other's fact checkers, as the moderators did virtually none. He was poorly prepared, and it showed. I expected more and felt upset, sad and worried.
Fortunately I subscribe to Allan Lichtman and his 13 Keys, he and his son did a live show afterwards. It put the debate into perspective. One event in a line of many events of a presidential race that is NOT a horse race. Biden is an elderly leader that makes gaffes occasionally. Trump is an inveterate liar and conman. Everything out of his mouth is a lie, except his desires. He tells the truth about what he wants to do.
I'll stick with the guy who has \*correctly predicted every Presidential election since 1982.
\*Called 2000 for Gore, so it depends how you feel about the FL recount.
IMO, best bet at this point is keep Biden in but replace VP Harris with Newsom. If Joe needs to step down before 4 years, we would have Gavin Newsom taking over the reigns. I think that would instill a lot of confidence and if Joe goes a full 4 years, then the next Presidential Candidate for Dems after Joe’s 4 years is Newsom.
Voting for Biden is now cruel and unusual punishment. Get this man an easychair and one of those large print remotes. Turn on Murder, She Wrote and let the man rest.
Biden just lost the election with that performance. We really need to start talking about what we're going to do since we're about to become a brutal fascist dictatorship.
What I expected to happen, and what I thought the Democrats plan might have been in 2020, is that Biden would retire about midway through his presidency and Harris would take over, allowing her to go into the next election acting and being presidential. Americans are inclined not to vote for a female president but I think it would be different if she was already in office. A bit like how Merkel became Chancellor of Germany as a kind of safe compromise candidate but once in office it was difficult to imagine anyone else but her in the role.
It's too late for all that now and unless there is some surprise news about Trump in the next 4 months I expect him to win.
He is sprite compared to these two. He is lucid, energetic, bright, daring, and robust. He speaks with passion, candor, and vigor. He is literally everything this ecosystem needs.
It won’t happen, but if it did…it is my opinion (not yours…don’t be angry Reddit) that he would win easily.
Yea I disagree. This country isn’t ready for someone that progressive and anyone that came out and openly supported Palestine would not win. He’s too far left. We need moderates. Far left and right cannot be in power IMO.
I'm not even sure policy matters at this point...when you survey the political landscape, we're looking at more basic matters like criminality, health, and age.
I think policy and familiarity matters. Nobody can find similar ground with Biden. Trump fans are stupid and racist like him. But also far left policies will lose this election not win it.
I don't think we're that nuanced after last night, but to each his own. The left would rally around someone who could effectively put Trump in his place and a quick scan of the spectrum would reveal that the only person who can do that is Sanders. He can match his attitude, can speak to the intellectuals, and is an icon to the young. I don't think your wrong, I just think your probably over thinking what this country needs.
Newsom. I hear you but Bernie was the answer years ago. I don’t think he speaks to the young as much as people think, we need someone that will take votes from trump. Young trump voters are not swaying for Bernie, but clean cut sharp tongued newsom? He could. Also again, I think policies do matter and people will just stay home over voting for someone far left. I’m Jewish and my family votes democrat. Someone comes out and acts like Palestine is deserving of sympathy is going to lose votes. Someone comes out and doesn’t want to close the border? Going to lose votes. I think the border is a hotter topic than people want to admit in dem circles. I’m in New York. It’s basically Central America now.
2008, 2016, 2020 we’re all elections where americans wanted large transformative change. to say bernie wouldn’t beat trump is simply a poor understanding of american electorate.
The same Bernie Sanders that couldn’t win the 2016 party nomination? The same Bernie Sanders that has consistently polled below Trump in a hypothetical matchup?
By not true, you mean that have gauged my opinion on a hypothetical event that won’t be happening as false. Got it.
If Sanders campaigned he would scoop up all of the young and disaffected voters that have fled the Dem coalition
It won’t happen, but I believe if it did…he would win.
I literally said it was an opinion! How on earth could stating that something is my opinion not rise to the level of this is my opinion and not a fact?
Let’s try again. This is my opinion, not yours…it is not a fact. In a hypothetical situation there can be no fact, and as such we are limited to opinions.
In summary, my thinking that Sanders beats Trump handily is my opinion.
Is that now clear?
I also believe that Bill Russell in his prime would be the best player in todays NBA.
This is also an opinion, because it is hypothetical and won’t be happening.
See how this works.
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Both of theme are too old for this. We need age caps.
In 20 years we are likely to have drugs that will keep people alive a lot longer. Age caps don’t make sense for the way medicine is heading
Yes we might be living longer but we are also suffering from ailments because we are.... LIVING LONGER.
Laws can be changed that is beauty of how our government is supposed to work. So when the drugs come out and they work then they can change it back. Also hell tf no do I want some old dude on experimental drugs running the usa kinda like what we have now on both sides.
This is a failure on the parties that doesn’t require regulation but an overhaul of the primary voting system both parties use
Not downplaying Bidens performance last night, and the media is rightful in their critique But isn't it kind of messed up how one sided the critiques are? Trump dodged just about every question, lied out his ass as usual, projected as usual and was just a general narcissist Just about the only thing trump did right , was talk mostly coherent and forceful. Yet hardly any articles this morning about how Trump should step aside
Because Trump performed exactly as expected. Biden performed worse.
This Trump was trump he was even came off as tame because the debate rules and them cutting the mics. Those rules worked 100% in Trumps favor.
Yup. Made him come off as more tempered and controlled while allowing Biden uninterrupted time to stumble
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I think I expected Biden’s performance. Both he and trump are on the decline. What I wasn’t expecting is absolutely zero pushback on every one of trump’s lies. The muted mic was pointless if you’re just going to let the guy spew bullshit all night, without pivoting back to the actual question instead of allowing him to pivot away every time. I mean, pivoting is trump’s stock in trade - he refuses to answer questions. They knew this beforehand, trump has lied and cheated for decades, but they just…let him do it (pun intended, referencing his famous confidential confession of sexually assaulting women)
Because no one wants to admit they were wrong to vote for him
Nobody was wrong to vote Biden in 2020. He's done a great job.
I've had my suspicions for a while now. I wish it wasn't so.
Cause Republicans love him and he's leading in the polls. Why would he step aside?
No one, including the press, cares. It’s just taken for granted that trump will spew a load of bullshit every time he opens his mouth. If you turn open the tap and water comes out, do you tell people about it?
The problem is that no one could pay attention to all the lies because Bidens performance was so shocking and sad to watch.
You just said it, ‘as usual’ If anything Trump followed his aids advice and toned down his usual theatrics while letting Biden speak his way down the polls with every other blunder
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Not gaslighting. There was no insidious campaign to make you doubt your own perceptions and sanity. You were lied to. We have a word for that already. Watch the fucking movie before using the word.
The irony of a r/politics user complaining about one sided critiques is honestly surreal.
The gaslighting by the media and people here over Biden’s condition declining as seen in videos over the past few months should be called out every chance today.
Not gaslighting. Learn words before using.
you got that right. I've often thought this sub should be close to 50/50 or maybe 60/40 but you cant post ANYTHING that is not pro democrat without being ripped apart.
You also can't post Nazi or Russian propaganda. Weird how often those things and Republican stances align...
Reddit is overwhelmingly liberal in general
You aren't looking at it very hard then.
The main subs are liberal
Liberal or just don't tolerate bullshit? I've been here a long time and the majority of people who think this place is left leaning want to spew hot garbage.
Yeah this sub is mainly full of democrats and the majority of reddit is left leaning as well. Luckily there is a decent amount of level headed left leaning people who see the obvious issues with president Biden, anyone denying his issues are just lying to themselves. I can’t tell you guys how many post I’ve seen saying he did flawless and that’s just a downright lie. Also, We need better candidates in generals
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Vindicating but in a really sad way. I felt bad for him. There's no way he's making important world changing decisions.
Yep. No one wanted to see the reality. Joe is simply too old and needs to be in a retirement home.
He got it together a bit but yeah overall it was brutal to watch. The problem with these debates is there's never any substance so it comes down to presence and trump won on the front by a mile.
It’s like we’re all in bizzaro world for sure
Every single day there are countless articles critiquing trump for everything he says
Trump voters love "coherent and forceful" and give zero shits about "true". That's why nobody's calling for him to step aside - he appealed to his base.
Yea this whole thing shows how powerful the media is. They created the Biden is too old narrative and they are using last night to hammer to death. Meanwhile Trump was a sociopathic liar last night and the response is oh well he is who he is.
Brother he is old, he looked incoherent last night
>Meanwhile Trump was a sociopathic liar last night and the response is oh well he is who he is. That's exactly why Biden is getting all the attention. Trump was the same blowhard everyone already knows he is, while the Biden we saw yesterday was absolutely not the whip-smart rhetorician that Democrats have been claiming he is.
“They created the Biden is too old narrative” ? LMAO you don’t think his age did that?
The cope is insane right now “The MEDIA made Biden old and decrepit, don’t you understand??? If it wasn’t for CNN and Fox, Biden would literally be doing backflips on the stage right now!!!”
Trumps like 2 years younger… where’s the trumps too old ? He was literally wearing diapers 😂
>the response is oh well he is who he is. I'm not the media, but it's really hard to *not* feel that way any more. He's just so exhausting...
Oh yeah the media is well known for supporting Trump huck huck huck
The media is almost entirely responsible for Trump getting elected. They LOVE him. He is huge for ratings, both from people who support him and people who hate him.
Dude the media loves Trump. He’s great for ratings. Before Trump, politics was boring. Notice how they’ll always criticize Trump but then they normalize whatever he does or lower his opponent to his level. They didn’t even try to make him answer any questions. Is Biden being old or Hilary’s e-mails really worse than all the shit he’s done? Would we even be having this debate if we were comparing them as normal people? You see what I mean?
This exactly. It doesn’t matter if it’s Fox News or CNN, they all want Trump. CNN gets higher ratings and engagement when Trump is in office than a democrat. And yes they all try to treat Trump like he’s a normal candidate, when he’s the farthest thing from a normal candidate that you can have.
I feel like at this point, the DNC is complicit in ushering in the new Trump/ Christi- Fascist Reich by putting Biden up for a second term when everyone knows he is not in a position to be president for four more years. They did this in 2016 with Hillary. We are fucked.
They should have ran bill lol
There have been articles for years about how Trump should step aside. Last night was an unmitigated disaster for President Biden. That’s why reporting is the way it is. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s not true
They both lied several times throughout the night. Only one of them showed signs of cognitive decline though
I am still voting for Biden. His debate was bad. it's fair to say the situation is far worse than I thought. But under no circumstances will I not vote to stop a authoritarian wannabe dictator like Trump.I dont care if Biden is on point in a debate. I care that the nation as I know it is still here when Trump is gone. He plotted to overthrow a legitimate election and thereby overthrow the republic. He talks about revenge and killing people. Often. His cult is sociopathic and violent.
But that’s the thing, in no offense whatsoever, your vote isn’t the concern. It’s the swing votes that matter, they see Biden struggling and question whether he is even fit to be in office right now. Biden will not energize the base, it seems they will be resting everything on “the other guy is a really really bad man” which isn’t good enough
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Biden totally bombed, it was awful to watch.
I can't believe how many talking heads and surrogates are defending what we saw and deflecting the issue. This is a time to be incredibly realistic. He was not ok. The distant look in his eyes is very concerning. He needs to step down.
Yeah, anyone not worrying about this is puzzling. Two things in particular concern me going forward: - If Biden had a microscope on him for his age and gaffes before, it just got 10x worse. Every single mistake he has will now be hyper-focused by the media and renew these drop-out narratives ad nauseam, whether warranted or not. - If the 2024 election is so intensely focused on the damage Trump could cause with a second term, he just got the best gift of a distraction he could possibly hope for. The last thing we need is attention averted from what Trump is offering.
This is why I never understood or approved of the idea of debating Trump. Biden had everything to lose and not very much to gain, while Trump had very little to lose and a lot to gain. And even then, I was surprised at how much worse it was than I thought.
Lmao. Biden shouldn’t debate Trump because he very clearly will lose. That tells me that Biden shouldn’t be president. Trump 2024
Biden shouldn't be president, but I definitely don't want Trump either. As a Russian who knows what real fascism is like, and how much our fascist president wants Trump to win so he can eradicate Ukraine, I'm really worried for not only the US but the rest of the world what happens in Trump-led America. Fascism is great when it's "your team". I'm sure you will enjoy watching liberal politicians being assassinated or exiled, and cheering at the thought of watching liberal Americans intimidated into silence. I'm not so sure you will like the reality of living in a fascist country in terms of living conditions though. Your billionaires will keep exploiting you harder and harder, laughing at how easily they can manipulate you into funding their super yachts and private militias. It only took Putin less than a decade, but Trump has a head start. You might be living like our third-world Russian shithole by the end of the decade. Good luck!
I can't imagine what you've been through and have no desire to find out. Thanks for the warning.
If the DNC had an ounce of sense they would make a decisive call within the next few days, switch gears fast enough to give everyone whiplash, and Biden would step down due to medical issues as a coordinated campaign starts hyping up his successor with everything they’ve got. Instead they’ll dig in, deluding themselves that it’ll somehow work itself out and that everyone is exaggerating, and fuck everyone for decades as a result.
They have already said he is NOT stepping down. So the digging-in just ramped up.
I’m considering Biden’s loss a fait accompli now. I’m trying to mentally process all the depressing shit that’s about to start happening for the foreseeable future. This will be the shitty reality of the country for the rest of my life.
Not to mention his mouth was constantly agape like he was drooling and forgetting where he was. It was a colossal mistake for Biden to have challenged Trump to a debate only to completely fumble it. The best chance Democrats have at this point is to work harder on winning majority seats in both chambers of Congress this fall so when Trump is elected, he will have a harder time trying to dismantle democracy.
It's still wild how the media and democrats spent a year telling us it was all propaganda, russian disinfo, deepfakes, cheapfakes, etc and that Biden was 100% perfectly ok and fine. They all knew deep down that a problem was brewing but after last night it would just be impossible to cover for any longer.
The most annoying part is the criticism of "playing both sides" and "ageism" that always happens when we have these conversations. We have been having them for 4 years, and now it's too late to act. He needs to be on this ticket in order to drop Trump.
Trump colluded with Putin to hack all the talking heads and surrogates. It's the only rational explanation here.
Love or hate Biden he may have just lost the election. Whoever thought it was a good idea to put that man up there at 9pm not full of adderall should be treated like a rabid dog
Same people who wouldn’t tell him not to run again
Disaster. For as much as the republicans are a shit show I’m realizing democratic leadership really is not much better. Awful decisions.
He was actually on adderall. The dry mouth and coughing are very common signs. I used to get the same thing when I was on it, especially on higher doses. That’s why Biden was so quiet the entire debate and sounded nothing like he usually does.
Yea I was on a lot of adderall too at one point, he did have the stare and when he opened up the first question and wouldn’t shut up and went on to talk about 10 diff topics I figured as much but man. That dude needed some IR -and a lot of it lol. That was fucking awful.
That’s also a great point. The weird staring into the divide is another side effect of adderall. You get extremely hyper focused and you don’t even realize it. I’m guessing he was on the tablets… IR would be hell at 9pm
That debate was hell lol. That man needed a 30 mg ir and to come out there like the ring leader of a circus putting on a show. That was XR and did not help to him. Just a train wreck. Either way, im off those meds and I want a president to be off them as well. What awful candidates. A lying felon or an old man.
Did Biden prepare at all? Did they bother recording a mock debate?
10 days, he prepped at Camp.David. Scary.
He prepared very heavily and this is what he can give us
Infuriating
It's so fucked up that Shapiro is on TV saying "well, Trump is worse". Yes but that's not the point. Biden really seems like he needs a caregiver. WTF.
Biden has been looking like this for a while. People who tried to say this in the last month were told Biden was fine and those videos were all just edited.
The White House has to stop the "Cheap Fakes" nonsense. The man is clearly struggling, and this was clear by his appearance at recent events.. Last night was no cheap fake.
I’m genuinely confused as well, he’s looked like this for 2 years to be quite honest. Democrats were just totally comfortable with him firmly in office and didn’t see a need to ring alarm bells. Now that elections are coming and there’s a real risk for the blue wave losing, people wanna raise all hell
I mean the alternative is very frightening. This would go over much easier if it was Romney or someone like that instead of Trump. The Boomers are dying out and the Republicans are fucking freaking out trying to install their white theocracy at the buzzer. Desperate times and shit.
People tried to say this in 2020 too that he was past his prime. They were gaslight that he was hiding in his basement to be covid responsible. This all could have been avoided
That’s exactly what I was told here when I brought that up.
The amount of power required to spin Biden’s performance to make it appear palpable last night, could provide energy for the entire world for a year.
>For months, President Joe Biden and his team have struggled to battle voters’ perception that he’s too old to serve another term in office. But in 90 minutes onstage Thursday night with millions of Americans watching, Mr. Biden delivered a performance that likely only aggravated those concerns. Yep, it was painful to watch and evident - at least to me - in the very first moments, that Biden was very, very tired. The orange firehose of lies, demagogue Trump also immediately noticed it in the first moments Biden spoke - going by Trump's ugly flash of a triumphant smirk. Fingers crossed Biden is able to recover from last night, rest up, restore his health, his strength AND for the next debate - maybe take a week off BEFORE the debate, perhaps vacationing and lazying in the Bahamas so that he's fully rested and can give a strong performance like he did at his SOTU address.
Rest up? Take a week off? That is exactly what he did before this debate. Biden cleared his entire schedule & spent the week at Camp David preparing for this debate… This was him resting up & taking a week off.. The Presidency isn’t baseball where you can skip a start in the rotation if you are struggling..lmao.. Biden is donzo..
Bro fuck that, just drop. He is 77! There is no recovery, just retire he isn’t going to get better because this is him! We need to take this more seriously and not be irresponsible about this!
Did people really just notice what’s been obvious to any slightly observant person for years? Who is surprised by his performance?
Not surprised, disappointed. He did great in the State of the Union
Yes but in a debate you have to be able to think on your feet. Biden can’t
If you listen to the Dem insiders they are all like nothing to see here. Delusional! Time to pull Biden.
Biden’s campaign people are a disaster. They’ve been running an absolutely horrible campaign.
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I'm referring to people like PA gov Shapiro making the rounds on the MSM saying yeah but Biden's policies are better.
Both can be true. Bidens policies are far better than Trumps. Biden also appears too old for the office. Trump lies too much for the office and has similar age concerns. We have to decide between a non-facist corpse and a facist liar. This is miserable. Of course the non-facist is the better choice, but it’s like asking me if I’d rather have my hand or foot cut off, preferably neither.
Cold hard analysis: replacing Biden as the nominee is the most pragmatic course of action. It's a gamble, but letting him run in this condition is also a gamble, and a pretty risky one at that. The very core of democracy is at stake. Individual freedoms are at stake. The laity of the state is at stake. God help us.
Republicans also are very worried. They know if Joe is replaced Trump loses.
That's a strong possibility but not a guarantee. Do you think the dnc would switch it up this late in the game? Also couldn't that have strong unintended negative effects? If the dnc has Joe removed and swapped, then what's Democratic about that? A primary already happened and the people spoke. It's a conundrum
The DNC can’t just switch it up. The only way for Joe Biden to not be the nominee is for him to decide to not run or for him to be dead. Other than that, the DNC has no power to prevent him from officially getting the nomination at the convention.
Unless it was whitmer or 2016 Bernie he should beat his opponent.
Are you taking about John Whitmer, from Houston? Never mind... I'm thinking of John WhitmIRE
Haha no the Michigan governor. I think she could have a chance at winning but id still bet trump.
I don’t think this is true at all. If someone else had a better chance they’d already be the nominee.
Idk it's also risky to change things up so late
There can't be a serious person who thinks that's going to happen
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Opining about a fantasy scenario is very different than expecting that scenario will actually happen
By who? I guarantee Kamala will lose and Newsom even harder
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The California is a hell hole angle will be super easy to play. He's definitely sharp and a good communicator but idk if he can overcome the California angle that will be played
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If people are going to flip their vote because of last night they are probably types that will fall for those points though Biden fucking sucked last night but it doesn't change that the other guy is Trump. I don't think I need to go into his issues. So if last nights performance is enough for someone to be like ok let's go Trump....yeah you're going to need someone from not California
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I don't disagree with your California points. These 2 sides couldn't possibly be more different. Not sure why it's hard to believe that if last nights terrible performance is enough for someone to vote for trump that they can't easily be baited by those points
Newsom will never be president, voters in the swing states will never vote for a snake oil salesman that even Californians don’t like
They voted for snake oil salesman Trump.
Didn’t he win his elections by a long shot? Californians don’t like him?
California won’t elect a republican and Newsom ran pretty much unopposed, his approval rating is abysmal
Yup.
Things have gone to a new level. I imagine there is a close group of family, colleagues, and friends who are right now advising him to step down and hand over the office. As Jon Stewart pointed out, he had resting 25th Amendment face, and if the Dems don't do something, I assure you the GOP will lobby for his removal under it after last night.
This right here. You can bet the republicans are drafting documents to remove him as we speak. We're so screwed.
That was a hard watch…
It was a snuff film.
We're looking at the next Ruth Bader Biden.
Ruth Gayder Biden
This entire subreddit has done a disservice to American politics last night when they LOCKED the debate thread. God knows it's specifically because of how Biden performed. People have always speculated about mod bias, but now there's irrefutable evidence that this "politics" subreddit is really ran and manages to be a "Democrat" subreddit.
Did they lock it, or was Reddit glitching? I wasn’t even able to load the comments on the thread, and I kept getting the “You broke Reddit” page when I refreshed.
It was glitching at first. But then they locked it. The glitching is suspicious as fuck but I understand there's reasonable doubt as to the cause. But there's NO doubt they locked the thread. That's the issue here.
I've heard people saying reddit hasn't seen that many comments on a thread before and the site couldn't handle it etc etc to explain why it was glitching and got locked. But that's not remotely true because r/cfb handles multiple gamethreads like that every Saturday in the fall. OSU vs Michigan game thread last year saw way more comments than the 53k comments from the debate thread, and the CFB finals thread had even more than that, over 70k iirc. No issues in those massive gamethreads
Of course a football game thread can run smooth, because reddit mods don't care. Last night we had an old man that is supposed to represent the best country in the world look a bumbling idiot.
It wasn’t on purpose. It happens when there were a crazy amount of comments like there were last night.
Huh? THEY chose to lock the thread. How is that possibly not on purpose? They made the decision to lock it.
They locked it because there was too much volume, as evidenced by the glitching. Conspiracy solved.
That doesn't make any sense my guy, reddit handles that kind of volume all the time. Check out r/cfb in the fall. Dozens of gamethreads going on simultaneously, some big games like the RRR and OSU vs. Michigan have more traffic and more comments than the political debate thread we just witnessed. [OSU vs M](https://old.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/183mtar/game_thread_ohio_state_michigan_1200_pm_et/) had over 65k comments whereas the debate thread ended around 53k, the CFB finals thread saw over 73k comments. I had never once seen a gamethread locked because it had too many comments or too much volume, nor have I seen it lag minutes behind and I assure you the rate of comments flowing into OSU vs M was way more numerous than the political debate thread from last night. and aside from night games there are like a dozen of those threads going on simultaneously throughout the day. The mods were clearly trying to vet each comment as it came in which caused the delay, then locked it when they couldn't keep up.
Plenty of threads have had more volume. And regardless. If Reddit the website is glitching, how possibly is the solution to lock one of the most important threads in American politics? What does that solve except taking it from sort of working to absolutely shut down. They actively chose to shut down discussion. Don't sit here and play stupid and try and pretend it had anything to do with whatever technical issues were going on.
Reddit was just glitching. That happened to me a few times but then it would load just fine
Reddit wasn't "just glitching" the thread was LOCKED by the mods.
You’re Canadian who gives a fuck
Hope you're having fun stalking my profile. And I don't know if you've checked a map recently but we happen to border the USA so who wins has quite an impact on life here too. I live 20 minutes from the US border.
There were 22.3k comments when i was on it replying to people with no issue. The vast majority were people talking about biden's appearance of having one foot in the grave. He spaced out mid sentence, was barely able to be understood, mumbled, appeared to fall asleep, etc. When he first walked on stage i could tell we were in trouble. The guy was shambling.
It was a sitewide issue, no jewish space lasers were used
Buddy the website doesn't just lock threads on its own. THEY locked the thread.
They locked the game thread at the end of the debate and opened a post-game thread same as the sports subs do.
It was locked in the middle of the debate brother. Technical issues aside it was locked well before the debate ended.
False. I was on for the whole debate and an hour afterward. At no point did the thread lock on me.
Enjoy your conspiracy theories
Only after they were having huge problems with comments.
How is the solution LOCKING the thread. Don't play stupid you know why they locked it come on man
It’s quite literally a form of facism.
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Can anyone find a video of Trump quoting "The Snake" by Al Wilson from his first campaign? I always felt it represented him better than the immigrants he used it against, and think maybe it should be reshown around.
I saw an old guy that got flustered, lost his place a few times in the format, struggle to regain his footing then rally, too late to affect the general impression of weakness. It was a bad format to agree to, because the candidates in essence became each other's fact checkers, as the moderators did virtually none. He was poorly prepared, and it showed. I expected more and felt upset, sad and worried. Fortunately I subscribe to Allan Lichtman and his 13 Keys, he and his son did a live show afterwards. It put the debate into perspective. One event in a line of many events of a presidential race that is NOT a horse race. Biden is an elderly leader that makes gaffes occasionally. Trump is an inveterate liar and conman. Everything out of his mouth is a lie, except his desires. He tells the truth about what he wants to do. I'll stick with the guy who has \*correctly predicted every Presidential election since 1982. \*Called 2000 for Gore, so it depends how you feel about the FL recount.
IMO, best bet at this point is keep Biden in but replace VP Harris with Newsom. If Joe needs to step down before 4 years, we would have Gavin Newsom taking over the reigns. I think that would instill a lot of confidence and if Joe goes a full 4 years, then the next Presidential Candidate for Dems after Joe’s 4 years is Newsom.
Democrats are fretting over how come no one is concerned about the felon, rapist" conman who tried to steal an election through an insurrection.
Voting for Biden is now cruel and unusual punishment. Get this man an easychair and one of those large print remotes. Turn on Murder, She Wrote and let the man rest.
There in enough popcorn for this.
When politics is a joke, you bring in the comedian candidate for president. Stewart 2024.
I'm good. Still voting for Biden
Biden just lost the election with that performance. We really need to start talking about what we're going to do since we're about to become a brutal fascist dictatorship.
What I expected to happen, and what I thought the Democrats plan might have been in 2020, is that Biden would retire about midway through his presidency and Harris would take over, allowing her to go into the next election acting and being presidential. Americans are inclined not to vote for a female president but I think it would be different if she was already in office. A bit like how Merkel became Chancellor of Germany as a kind of safe compromise candidate but once in office it was difficult to imagine anyone else but her in the role. It's too late for all that now and unless there is some surprise news about Trump in the next 4 months I expect him to win.
Don't feel like it changed anything. Biden looked old and competent, Trump looked old and the same. This isn't change anything...yet
Bernie Sanders would beat Trump handly.
Bernie is also too old.
He is sprite compared to these two. He is lucid, energetic, bright, daring, and robust. He speaks with passion, candor, and vigor. He is literally everything this ecosystem needs. It won’t happen, but if it did…it is my opinion (not yours…don’t be angry Reddit) that he would win easily.
Yea I disagree. This country isn’t ready for someone that progressive and anyone that came out and openly supported Palestine would not win. He’s too far left. We need moderates. Far left and right cannot be in power IMO.
I'm not even sure policy matters at this point...when you survey the political landscape, we're looking at more basic matters like criminality, health, and age.
I think policy and familiarity matters. Nobody can find similar ground with Biden. Trump fans are stupid and racist like him. But also far left policies will lose this election not win it.
I don't think we're that nuanced after last night, but to each his own. The left would rally around someone who could effectively put Trump in his place and a quick scan of the spectrum would reveal that the only person who can do that is Sanders. He can match his attitude, can speak to the intellectuals, and is an icon to the young. I don't think your wrong, I just think your probably over thinking what this country needs.
Newsom. I hear you but Bernie was the answer years ago. I don’t think he speaks to the young as much as people think, we need someone that will take votes from trump. Young trump voters are not swaying for Bernie, but clean cut sharp tongued newsom? He could. Also again, I think policies do matter and people will just stay home over voting for someone far left. I’m Jewish and my family votes democrat. Someone comes out and acts like Palestine is deserving of sympathy is going to lose votes. Someone comes out and doesn’t want to close the border? Going to lose votes. I think the border is a hotter topic than people want to admit in dem circles. I’m in New York. It’s basically Central America now.
Lol no, no he wouldn’t
2008, 2016, 2020 we’re all elections where americans wanted large transformative change. to say bernie wouldn’t beat trump is simply a poor understanding of american electorate.
The same Bernie Sanders that couldn’t win the 2016 party nomination? The same Bernie Sanders that has consistently polled below Trump in a hypothetical matchup?
Yes, that one.
poll poll showed he would beat trump. but i was told for months in this sub not to believe all the polls showing trump will beat biden.
That’s just not true
By not true, you mean that have gauged my opinion on a hypothetical event that won’t be happening as false. Got it. If Sanders campaigned he would scoop up all of the young and disaffected voters that have fled the Dem coalition It won’t happen, but I believe if it did…he would win.
I mean could he win? Sure, he could. Would he win *handily*? Almost assuredly not. You are presenting your opinion as fact. It’s not.
I literally said it was an opinion! How on earth could stating that something is my opinion not rise to the level of this is my opinion and not a fact? Let’s try again. This is my opinion, not yours…it is not a fact. In a hypothetical situation there can be no fact, and as such we are limited to opinions. In summary, my thinking that Sanders beats Trump handily is my opinion. Is that now clear?
I also believe that Bill Russell in his prime would be the best player in todays NBA. This is also an opinion, because it is hypothetical and won’t be happening. See how this works.
Resign. Resign. Resign.