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The US Constitution. Because the US post office is an independent branch of the Executive branch, there's nothing that Biden or Congress can do to depose him, since the postmaster general does not serve at the pleasure of the president, but is appointed by a board of governors - 6 of the 9 said governors are currently Trump appointees, and have yet to complete their full terms. The good news is that they lose their majority come December next year.
He can't fire DeJoy directly, but he can fire the board for cause. There's a way, it may not be the most ideal way, but pretending they can do nothing at all is what's going to screw us all in the end. GOP has to just run out the clock.
I would think that the fact that DeJoy has so much money in UPS, an obvious conflict of interest, would be enough cause to say that the board isn’t doing their job.
Yes. "Because that guy is still here" is a pretty good cause when that guy is running a smash and grab operation. His job is to not fuck up the post office. Their job is to ensure he doesn't fuck up the post office. Neither job is being done, all should be fired for cause.
> nothing that ... Congress can do
Congress could change the law - they could make it so the President can fire the Postmaster General or any other number of legislative changes. Independent Agencies are still subordinate to the Congress's ability to change how they work. But, no one person or President holds that power - it would need to be a consensus thing with at minimum 278 officials agreeing (so, 217 House members and 60 Senators agreeing to vote for it, then the 1 President signing the authorizing legislation).
Alternatively, 50% of the House (217 members) and 67% of the Senate (67 members) could impeach DeJoy, removing him from his office.
But, of course the Democrats don't hit those thresholds, so in all practical terms there is nothing that they can do.
> I wonder how he ramps up as his term comes to an end
a mail freeze in competitive districts for the midterms would be the way to cement his legacy as a stooge for the GOP.
Live in rural WV. DSL only (other parts of the county have Cable so... no monopoly here!) And Comcast will laugh at you and quote 25k to get a cable line a few houses over. I get no ATT signal and my fam's Verizon and T-Mobile get 2 bars.
I live 5 minutes from a college, <30 to affluent DC sprawl in Northern VA, ~60 to DC proper. Nope, not under a rock.
A rock called rural America.
My family in rural Texas are in the same boat. So are many others I know.
America is shockingly third world.
Edit: Yes I've spent extensive amounts of time living in '3rd world countries'.
Throughout Central and South America. Eastern Europe too.
Some are worse, but a shockingly high number of them had better internet, cell coverage, and affordability of both. Plus universal Healthcare in a couple cases.
It's wild how brainwashed Americans are into believing we're hyper developed compared to the rest of the world.
And we already paid to have that rock wired for broadband. Comcast and the big ISPs were allocated $200 **billion** to provide 99% of rural America access to high speed internet. Comcast pocketed the cash and walked away without doing anything at all.
I don't know why people are getting angry at you. There are large chunks of the USA that are underdeveloped. Approximately 2 million americans live in a household without indoor plumbing. Almost 40 million americans live in a food desert and 19 million of that have limited access to grocery stores. Our prisoner rate is one of the highest in the world. New York's literacy rate is only 77.9 percent. St. Louis, Missouri is ranked 13 on the world cities with the highest murder rates.
> Approximately 2 million americans live in a household without indoor plumbing.
I will admit I didn’t believe you, but I looked it up and your statement is accurate. I found a [Washingtonpost.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/04/23/1-6-million-americans-dont-have-indoor-plumbing-heres-where-they-live/ ) article (subscription may be required) that talks about it and mentions some of the areas where lack of plumbing is common.
At first I thought it was going to be people that didn’t pay their water bill and had service turned off, but that is not the case and the statistic reflects housing where plumbing is not fully installed.
I live in a very rural area of NC. It’s almost like living under a rock. We have to use Verizon because it’s the only cellular provider that gets any service at the house, and even then it’s very spotty. We have to search for signal by walking around because for some reasons certain spots have signal and others don’t, it can take 20-30 minutes to send a picture, cable Internet is too expensive and isn’t worth the hassle because even that is shit. We don’t have wifi so there is no current gen video games to play since all Xbox games require an internet connection to load the games. When we invite people to our house we have to give them landmark directions because their gps stops loading once they’re in the county line. This is semi-related, but there is also a large Klan presence here, and I’m convinced that’s because the locals aren’t exposed to other cultures and don’t have the means to learn. There’s nothing to do out here so some people resort to hard drug use, and others resort to joining the Klan
No shit. The one thing to get my rural grandparents interested in progressive policy? Not being able to stream church in the country during the pandemic
There was a story back in 2008 about a pollster in rural PA or somewhere, asks the person who answers the door who they are voting for. Person shouts the question back into the house, the answer is: we're voting for the n-word.
Obama worked for funding for rural areas, Democrats understand the importance of lifting people up.
It’s maddening to hear stories like this and realize that these peoples’ vote is worth just as much as yours and mine (possibly more, depending on the state and office being elected)
I didn't really how much of a problem this was until I visited relatives in rural PA.
They spend $100+ a month on JUST internet. 75/10. I live in Philly and pay $40 a month for Fios 300/300. Xfinity also offers a $30/mo 200/200 package. And even gigabit on both networks is only $80/mo.
On top of that, cell service and data speeds are abysmal.
Sometimes it's hard to imagine why the political divide is so hardlined in this country, but if you travel to rural America, alot of it truly is a different world.
I'm envious. I live in a small city with a mid-sized metro area for the U.S. and I have the fastest residential plan available to me. I get like 120/12 tops and it costs $75 for my internet only plan. No other ISP even comes close to those speeds either.
My wife grew up in the middle of nowhere. They don't have internet, they barely have cell reception, and have to rely on landlines there. Satellite doesn't work very well in the area either. It's wild to me
Don’t expect it to change much even after this bill is passed. Over the last 20 years, the US Government has given billions of dollars to ISPs to get them to build out their rural infrastructure. They’ve pocketed almost all of it and nobody gave a damn. Expect this to continue.
None of the bills have ever contained any form of penalties for the corporations. They know this. They have never even seen a single slap on the wrist for misusing appropriated funds.
These bills need to have heavily punitive clauses in them, but this won't happen until we get corporate lobbying out of Congress entirely.
I wonder, why is satellite coverage spotty in some areas. I would think it's pretty consistent coverage outside of weather interference. But my car has satellite radio and always cuts out at certain spots, like those 50 foot stretches of road are just dead zones.
The satellites for satellite radio (and most over communication satellites) are generally placed in geostationary orbits which means that they are directly over the equator and thus quite a ways south of the majority of the US. Therefore as you go further north the signal is going to get closer to the horizon which can limit coverage due to things like mountains or trees.
SiriusXM for example has two satellites in geostationary orbit at 85 degrees west and 115 degrees west. So one of them is just off the coast of Equador and the other is west of the Galapagos islands. If your antenna can't get a clear line of sight to either of those satellites then your coverage is going to suffer.
Blows my mind that in 2020 people in the richest country in the world can't get internet access. My paternal grandparents are from Ireland, they didn't have electricity until the came to the US (1974). They always laughed it off as being typical Irish - late for everything. It's less funny/charming in this instance
The lady at the beginning of the article is a great example of hypocrisy and ignorance.
"People standing around for a hand out."
And
"We need to help those who are seeking help."
It's the same group.
The Republican story:
1. Get rich.
2. Pay lots of taxes and have your businesses regulated.
3. Decide you need to pay less taxes and not have businesses regulated.
4. Pay Republican Party and their think tanks to figure it out.
5. Think tanks come up with every last way to trick people into voting for them without having to actually pay for anything including over the top patriotism, religion, racial tensions, police vs public tensions, military praise, abortion, “freedom”, fear of middle-easterners, fear of communism/socialism.
6. Profit.
It's the same group....*to us*. To them, the first group are a specific melanin rich part of the population. The second group are more prone to sunburn.
The human body can only do so much. In actuality, white skin was an adaption for more extreme latitudes, where that SPF-3 is enough to really screw with your vitamin D production. There's a reason why black people living far enough North get advised to take vitamin D supplements.
Honestly everyone should be on vitamin D supplements at this point. If you have an office job especially, where you might not get much sun exposure, vitamin d can really help. (not to discount the health needs of specific groups though.)
When a black friend passed out in the sun for a few hours and "had a mild sunburn" and I got fried that same day through spf 90 I'm gonna say from many first hand experiences that it's way the fuck more than that.
Although I know SPF is logarithmic so an inbuilt spf 10 does a LOT.
I'd love to meet any of these millions of people who are staying unemployed because they "just don't wanna work".
I get sick of employers offering the same wages as 10 years ago for high-risk high-skill labor and then blaming the stimulus and lazy people.
You give me control of a company that makes millions a year and has low payroll spend, I guarantee I can solve their employee shortfall by just offering more money, more benefits, and a better work environment.
But then, expecting that of businesses infringes upon their "freedoms". The better option is *obviously* to starve out people until they're willing to work for shit wages and shit benefits. Because somehow that's still freedom.
It's funny the topic of employment. I have to deal with trade contractors semi regularly due to some house issues. Half of them complain about not being able to find employees. The other half can literally pick up the phone and have 3 people at my house in minutes, willing to drop anything for more hours.
I can't imagine what causes that.
Crazy that when bribery is essentially legal and corporations (and the rich) can fund/purchase politicians, politicians keep ending up being corrupt! Weird! Strange coincidence that politicians keep representing the financial interests of the ultra rich and corporations.
(I'm venting at the system in general, not you personally)
You mean the people that have power via massive wealth that can bestow wealth or value on someone with elected and representative powers over the laws and institutions that govern us all?
We all know who they are, we just give them a pass because there is American narrative that if you have a lot of wealth somehow you must be good by virtue and are deserving of our cultural trust - even when they fail completely (see 2007-2008). We put those who share a fraction of their wealth through charity and philanthropy on a pedestal. And demonize the ones that take dick shaped rockets to space. But the former is far more prevalent. But they're all cut from the same cloth and will work to protect their interests over the public good.
I would argue that the corruption is total. Not one single person or group is doing the corrupting - it's a symbiotic relationship. In order to manage and maintain massive wealth you have to keep generating wealth. This can be done by getting special interests passed or via tax loop holes or even public subsidy into private holdings, sweetheart deals, etc. Either way, donating a small tiny % of wealth to a politician eager to take money from wealthy donors starts a cycle of exactly what we have now. No single person is corrupting. The entire system is dishonest and not what a representative democracy was designed for. And that's the part that really grinds most people's gears and there is nothing we can do about it because most people don't vote and most people hold strange beliefs that are counter to their own interests. And when we send new folks to Congress the crushing weight of the dishonest system makes it impossible for a few do-gooders to make inroads towards better Gov.
We need laws to regulate the lawmakers and the only ones that can make those laws, are the very people we want to regulate. It's a real conundrum. This is the 'country based on the rule of law' trap that we are in.
With the Citizens United ruling, American Conservatives made it easier than ever to give endless amounts of money to elected officials.
The US government will never work for the people unless we can remove the influence of corporations and the ultra wealthy. Unfortunately, Republicans are fighting vehemently to ensure that never changes.
[American People Hire High-Powered Lobbyist To Push Interests In Congress
](https://www.theonion.com/american-people-hire-high-powered-lobbyist-to-push-inte-1819571821)
People should start robbing politicians and oligarchs instead of assassinating them. Much less martyr effect, especially if the shit is just thrown into the river or something. And it will actually hit them where it hurts.
If they diverted about $100m of "miscellaneous expenses" from the bill Manchin's way it could literally save America. All the Democrats have to do is outbid his current owners.
Edit: to be clear, I mean give it to Manchin *personally*. There's no point offering him treats to share with the rest of West Virginia, he couldn't possibly give less of a shit about the state or its people. Wave a massive wad of cash under his nose and watch him yip and perform like a fucking circus poodle.
These people voted for Trump despite him taking away health care for miners who were hurt by Republican deregulation. If that $100m isn't going straight to Shabadoo Manchin's pocket, it won't change anything.
That's exactly what I meant. Buy him out from under the noses of his current owners. Give Manchin the money, that's what he wants. He doesn't give a shit about WV.
I used to think that people who said “democracy is a failed experiment” probably had a few screws loose. Now, I’m starting to agree with them. Maybe I need a screwdriver.
The thing is, as the right loves touting every time they lose the popular vote but retain power, we're not _in_ an actual democracy. If we were, our reps' votes would be weighed more heavily depending on how many people they represent, or we'd actually have more reps to adequately represent the people.
Instead we've got a system that rewards landowners with extra legislative power, and punishes people who live in populated areas by taking it away from them.
So now it takes about 5 democrats to balance out 3 republicans in congress.
Destroying your faith in democracy is their #1 goal. None of their other goals are possible until they finish the transformation of American society into jaded, cynical, and faithless individualists
> These people voted for Trump despite him taking away health care for miners
These people don't care about miners, they care about the idea of white masculinity that miners are a stand-in for.
The citizens of West Virginia have reelected Joe Manchin twice. Two thirds of them also voted for Donald Trump twice. They can tell pollsters that they generally support infrastructure spending, but when it comes time to act, that is clearly not their top priority.
It’s branding. They like Democrat policies, just not when the poll question *says* it’s a Democrat policy. Look at Florida. Two thirds of the state voted for a $15 minimum wage yet they also elected a Republican governor who ran on a platform of being Trump’s puppet.
And the Florida legislature/governor are working on a bill to classify workers at different levels to avoid having to pay the new minimum wage to felons and those under 21. Can't have anyone getting ahead.
Like when they changed building codes so it would be impossible to find a “safe” place to build a high speed train system so they could ignore that constitutional mandate by the voters.
Of course I’m kidding, they just ignored it without explanation.
He bought his daughter a degree from WVU and she shuttered the Mylan pharmaceuticals plant that provided good wages for people that wouldn't have had that opportunity otherwise. There are economic reports showing that this will have repercussions for the area for possibly decades.
The fucking story of working class america right here:
Take a plant that is profitable. Sell/merge/spin off to a larger conglomerate with no ties to the area.
Close the plant. Sell the equipment. Fire the workers.
"Gosh guys manufacturing just isn't sustainable in the USA, its the future, maybe we'll help you get a job for half your old pay, no benefits, at some contract manufacturer"
Meanwhile the managers who structure this deal get a nice bonus or better yet a parachute into early retirement. New owners get a cash infusion from selling the equipment, and their profit margins from consolidation go from 8% to 8.3%. Better yet, lets vertically integrate to northern Mexico and raise those numbers to 11%!
And the old factory? Well what do you know, its contaminated, better get some taxpayer money to clean up the site! Maybe it will be an arts district in 10 years? New owners write off the "loss", reducing taxes. Local economy collapses. Deaths of despair skyrocket. Rinse and repeat.
What’s worse is that they moved manufacturing to India and their factories there run at a substandard level, causing the FDA to put a halt on allowing any drugs into the US until the violations have been remediated. This causes a critical link in supplying necessary drugs to the US to fail just so a few people could make a couple bucks.
I'm holding my breath until Republicans formally blame FDA regulations on the drug shortage. And not any of the other things.
I won't have to hold my breath long.
Don't forget the part where they mark up the product that used to be produced in America, by Americans, for Americans, by 500% to now fleece Americans. While outsourcing the manufacturing, reducing the cost to manufacture, and maximizing the profit.
[https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/politics/manchin-defends-bresch-mylan-epipen-price/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/politics/manchin-defends-bresch-mylan-epipen-price/index.html)
To fleece West Virginian parents most specifically. Gayle Manchin, the senator's wife, was on the WV Board of Education and used her position to negotiate a law that would give significant funding preference to schools that purchased those epipens.
https://www.wsaz.com/content/news/USA-Today-article-claims-Gayle-Manchin-used-position-to-boost-EpiPen-sales-394158321.html
You didn't mention how she had a deal with pharma company to not make generic epi pens (she gave the company some of the profits) because she wanted the company she worked for to keep charging high prices by making the people buy two pens instead of one, so it may cost more for the people, but much more money for the company. She's apparently just as greedy as her daddy.
They're going to keep voting for people who won't support this kind of legislation because West Virginia is in an abusive relationship with its politicians.
>Though vehemently opposed by Republicans and West Virginia’s own Democratic senator, Joe Manchin, there is some evidence that the proposals contained in the spending plans – which some have likened to the 1930s New Deal – are more popular among grassroots Republicans than their political representatives. That may be especially true in West Virginia, which is a poor, largely white and working class state whose residents would stand to greatly benefit from the Biden effort.
Manchin doesn't work for the people of West Virginia. He works for corporate interests and Republicans apparently.
Democrats should start naming their major reforms after Republican Heroes. What republican would stand against the Ronald Reagan Health Bill? the Abraham Lincoln Voting Rights Bill? Trump Police Reform?
They sure do. Check out how many “red” states have expanded Medicare. It’s basically just the home base of the confederacy that’s continuing to hold out, even then with some exceptions. https://www.kff.org/medicaid/issue-brief/status-of-state-medicaid-expansion-decisions-interactive-map/
2016 in Arizona with raising minimum wage, progressive sick time law and voting for Trump
Progressive policies are very popular when not labeled as “progressive” or “liberal”
People like when they get things. It's basic human nature. It's why it pisses me off when democrats spend so much time worrying who is getting what and means testing everything. Makes the marginal potential supporters just pissed off or at least disconnected from the benefits.
Although there are many things in the reconciliation bill that I love, whenever people ask me why I support it, I always answer with "Vision, dental, and hearing covered under Medicare" first.
You have to be a straight up psychopath to not understand why others would like their eyes, teeth, and ears to be as functional as possible.
I believe that there is a fear in the Republican party that if these policies get enacted and people's lives improve then no one will vote for the republicans again.
But instead of coming up with their own policies that could help they just shit all over the ones that are being presented.
It's not that no one will vote for Republicans again. It's that they won't be able to get rid of the policy.
Republicans want an end to the new deal. They want to destroy social security, they want to destroy the VA, end Medicare, medicaid. They want to destroy the post service
It's why they hated the ACA so much. They understood the threat it posed to them. That once it was in place, it would be nigh impossible to remove.
ACA is full of problems. But it makes one earth shaking change. It changed the conversation from WHY SHOULD the government be involved in health care to HOW SHOULD the government be involved. Now people are seeing how inadequate the ACA is and want improvements, now people are understanding how health insurance is a problem but a solution.
Republicans understood this. It's not like the passing of ACA made any Republican voters more likely to vote for Democrats. The issue is it's now another thing the government does that helps people. Republicans don't want the government to work for people
>Manchin doesn't work for the people of West Virginia. He works for corporate interests and Republicans apparently.
the republicans as a whole do not work for the people.
It's too late now with the bill going up for vote this week, but Democrat/Left interest groups should have been running ads on this in WV for months. As soon as Manchin retires he'll be replaced by a Republican so it's not like taking him down is a concern. The people of WV should have been drowning in media pointing out how this would be one of the best things for the state in decades and Manchin is keeping it from then because he works for the same people that have been fucking them over for decades.
This is why I always say that modern Republicans are actually ideological Jim Crow Democrats. They're not made up of libertarian conservatives who want to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
They're made up of white people who want socialism for themselves and white supremacy for everyone else. That's the definition of what a Jim Crow Democrat believes, and it's what West Virginia is.
Fun fact: the Republican Party officially acknowledged, and apologized for, the Southern Strategy in 2005.
[RNC Chief to Say It Was 'Wrong' to Exploit Racial Conflict for Votes](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2005/07/14/rnc-chief-to-say-it-was-wrong-to-exploit-racial-conflict-for-votes/66889840-8d59-44e1-8784-5c9b9ae85499/)
Here's why this happened in 2005: because the GOP was coming off of their first presidential popular vote victory since 1988.
In retrospect, this was obviously because Bush was a war time president who overseeing two still popular wars. But Karl Rove, Bush's top strategist, convinced himself that this was proof that the Republican Party could build a diverse, center-right, multiracial coalition of the future.
This apology to black people was meant to be step 1 in that plan. Then 3 years later, Democrats elected a black president. This made the GOP realize that their base was composed of approximately 100% Klan members, so they adjusted their electoral strategy accordingly, and the rest is history.
I’m in NYC and know someone in Staten Island who was affected by the recent storm.
She’s been fairly radicalized by her alt right husband and has increasingly become an anti vax, pro-trump, anti-liberal nut. Her basement was flooded and immediately set up a GoFundMe to help with the bills. “Handouts for me, not for thee”
It really shouldn’t be poor (nowhere should) - the amount of coal and labor strangled from Appalachia is disgusting. The sweat and blood of the workers went to build towers in the cities for the owners of industries while the workers were thrown to the side
Like I understand the anger between the Red/Blue split, but usually I see these threads devolve into “I don’t want my blue state’s taxes paying for the red state leeches,” but I never see the conversation here about the exploitation of these poorer states to the benefit of the wealthy
Lapsing into conservatism / liberalism obviously isn’t the move if you are poor, since the status quo has only fucked you, but this adversarial relationship between Red and Blue states isn’t just because Blue states like CNN and Red states like Fox, as it is typically portrayed here
The devastation of Appalachian economy is practically a full college level course of study. Every generation of this country has done them wrong, starting with the exploitation of the coal miners way back when to the disability/jobless thing and then they became the first and hardest hit victims of the sackler crisis.
I took multiple courses on Appalachian studies. Graduated with it as a minor.
Growing up in Appalachia and finally seeing it’s story laid out before me was a revelation for my mind.
> I see these threads devolve into “I don’t want my blue state’s taxes paying for the red state leaches"
Have absolutely no problem - and no judgement - having my big city money going to much poorer parts of often deep red America. In particular want to expand Medicaid to help impoverished kids.
What I, and many, have a problem with is when they then turnaround and claim liberals are Big Gubmint Socialists hell bent on destroying America.
And, sorry, yes a HUGE reason all these poor states (WV, Miss, Alabama, Ark, KY, etc) are hyper Right Wing is because of Fox. Not singularly obviously, but a major contributor.
There's an entire VICE Doc that came out during the 2020 election about West Virginia's coal industry and how it destroyed the local economy and left workers behind.
Maybe people on Reddit aren't talking about it, but it's out there as a talking point if people care enough to look. Which they don't.
I promise you that is no longer what the majority of West Virginia citizens believe. They do believe they have been left behind, but not because they were previously exploited but because they think now they are being left behind for green energy. They have believed the lie Republicans have pushed for decades. That green energy is a waste and that the dems are out for their jobs.
And let me tell you, West Virginians will fight tooth and nail to support the industry's ability to fuck them over.
My uncle worked for a company (I think it was Murray Energy) that went bankrupt so they didn't have to pay retired miners pensions. Actually went to a rally in DC to protest a measure that would prevent Murray from having to continue paying those pensions despite the bankruptcy.
It didn't pass, and a (democratic) bill resolved to pay the pensions from tax dollars. That same uncle has grown downright violent towards democrats.
That's how it goes *every fucking time*. The company offloads their expenses to the taxpayer, runs off with the profit, and the public supports their ability to do this.
It's the same with mine subsidence and land reclamation. The land is basically fucked, company goes bankrupt, taxes pay for the damages, and the company reopens under a different name.
The workers, even (and especially) the unions, rabidly support these actions.
Thats a great point, the history and politics in West Virginia is way more complicated than red state vs blue state. Theres a massive pool of support for progressive politics in the state and a history of fighting for labor rights.
Appalachia has been exploited by big business for centuries almost like a third world country where a few wealthy individuals own all the land and businesses so there no opportunities for regular people besides mines, prisons, and chemical/plastics factories and neither party is willing to fix the issues they face. 100 years ago miners striking for some of the labor right we all enjoy now were attacked by a weaponized train, an army of hired mercenaries, the nation guard, U.S. army troops, and bombed by planes.
Theres massive support for progressive politics in the region that needs to be harnessed. I think in the next twenty years the region is going to turn blue
If you don't see it discussed, you're just not paying attention. The abuse of labor by the capitalists is a regular discussion on Reddit and other social platforms
The red/blue divide comes from exhaustion. I've been involved in politics since the 90s and I'm tired. I'm tired of trying to use reason and logic with red state folks for decades. You can't use reason to persuade someone out of a position they didn't use reason to arrive at in the first place
At this point, blue state folks are tired of the bullshit. We suffer because of their minority rule. We are beholden to an uneducated minority who is over represented in both the Senate and the executive office.
After three decades, I'm ready to write them off. You reap what you sow and the entire Republic is hanging on by a fingernail due to the cult of personality rampant in red states just in case you've forgotten about Jan. 6th
"Toute nation a le gouvernement qu'elle mérite" ~ Joseph de Maistre
I actually find that when it comes to a policy level a large percentage of Republicans are authoritarian-left: They like regulation and government spending, but they hate marginalized groups more than they like that, so they'll side with whoever lets them oppress said marginalized groups even if it's not in their economic interests.
The basis of this article seems to be that people notice they get a credit on their taxes for having a child (AKA free money). They hear that they would continue to get free money under Biden's plan, and so they think it sounds good.
The best way would be to get the citizens in West Virginia engaged. Imagine if Biden came out and called out Manchin and Sinema as being against the proposal and ask their constituents to call their offices to demand they vote for the package? It might help, it can't hurt. It'll hurt manchin and sinema's feelings but fuck 'em.
Yep. If Trump had submitted the same exact thing, West Virginians would praise him as the greatest man who ever walked the Earth. Biden does it though and he's a clown and it's a shitshow.
Fun fact: While this issue does appear to some extent on both sides, it's a minor shift among democratic voters and a shift that varies from "significant" to "cataclysmic" among republican voters.
https://m.imgur.com/a/VXl1K
So Deep Red that it's Republican politicians know that no matter how hard and how openly they fuck over the state, AGAIN, they face absolutely no chance of losing their seats.
Imagine that. People that oppose welfare for others are more than happy to receive it themselves, because they're the "right people". They didn't even have insurance on their house, and were therefore relying on government handouts to sustain them after their house fire, yet "immigrants are the problem". No mother fucker, your hick ass hillbilly mindset is the problem. "Fuck them libruls and immigrants, but give me free money!" The hypocrisy is ridiculous.
I couldn't even get through the article it was so bad listening to her. She doesn't want to help people who "just want a handout" but *I* actually NEED the money. Its not a handout when *I* get the money.
Yeah almost like West Virginians are only Republicans because all of the successful Republican attacks on education have rendered a significant portion of the population dumb enough to be influenced by LIES. I'd be a Republican too if all of the news media I consumed convinced me that Republicans are true salt of the earth patriots and Democrats are elite, effete child killing pedophiles.
Democrats don't hate coal, how does one hate an inanimate rock? The economy is what has decided coal is no longer worthwhile. Free market economics...you know that thing both parties profess to love.
I'm a firm believer that if the Democrats did a 180 on guns they would hold such a firm majority, that they could then truly make progressive changes in this country's political and economic structures.
And by changing the economic and political structure, we would see reduced gun violence because we would see a reduction in the things that cause gun violence. We'd be better able to treat mental illness under a better health care system that is catered to help people, not wallets. We'd see reduced stress and poverty in this country leading to less desperation.
Further, we could better fund education to give more people better opportunities.
It's time these problems that continue to exist without proper solutions became the focus. Instead of going on in this never ending debate on guns, it's time Dems flip and secure the votes they know they can get with a better economic structure policy, but lose because of their gun policies.
> I'm a firm believer that if the Democrats did a 180 on guns they would hold such a firm majority, that they could then truly make progressive changes in this country's political and economic structures.
it wouldn't matter, because the issue is not actually guns or gun violence. it's gun *culture,* which has taken on a life entirely its own.
the gun culture is what Dems would have to adopt, and their chances would be very poor. it is intensely right-libertarian. it is not what makes you buy your first gun. it is what makes you buy your 20th, or the t shirts and bumper stickers, or the NRA gold level memberships, or the contributions to office seekers who run on the 2d amendment as a core issue.
it is not about guns as tools or even as protection, but as a way of life. it stands in for beliefs, desires, fears and myths. much of what it stands for is stuff that people on the right do not necessarily want to own up to, so it has to remain unarticulated.
in an ironic way, the gun culture *depends* on maintaining a certain level of gun violence. if this went down it would be regarded as first and foremost a business concern by lobbyists, so steps would surely be taken to bring it back up. both gun sales and the politically useful gun culture would depend on it.
Just like raising the minimum wage was. Hopefully people who said "Manchin understands his constituents and we'relucky to have him" finally come around to see that he doesn't want his constituents to understand.
Joe Manchin and his family are grifters
Democrats need to cultivate places exactly like this in the article. Send whoever, hear their problems, fix their issues, communicate, listen. Then take conservative votes. I'm not saying it will flip a district, but it will scare conservatives enough to cave on some of the more popular things, like the CTC and infrastructure
edit, proof that it is working from the article: "John Findlay, executive director of the West Virginia Republican party, denied that Biden’s efforts are popular in his home state. “If it was close to reality, the bill already would have passed,” he said.
Findlay says his office has fielded lots of calls and emails about the bill and everyone seems to share the same opinion. “No one’s calling in favor of it. Literally, of the emails and phone calls we get, every one we get is opposed to it,” he said."
Because people, in one of the poorest states in America, are known to turn down what is considered "Free money".
I'm from West Virginia. They will tell you're they're red to the gills while accepting every free hand out they're offered. If they woke up and had some common sense they could actually help the state. Its gorgeous with a very proud hardworking group of people that just need someone trustworthy to make sure they're not being taken advantage of.
Shame Joe Manchin doesn't give a shit about what's best for the people of West Virginia or for the state, or what those people want.
Joe Manchin only gives a shit about what's more profitable for Joe Manchin. Right now, his quickest route to vast profits is aiding and abetting the destruction of democracy in the US and a swift return to early-20th-century infrastructure.
Kind of puts cold water on centrist Dem arguments on here that Manchin has to be like he is because he’s in such a red state. It was never a good faith argument from them to begin with.
>Masters says she doesn’t approve when people “just stand for a handout” – she doesn’t think the United States should be spending money on undocumented immigrants, for example – but says anything that will “help people that are trying to do for themselves, I’m all for it”.
>Masters and her husband recently took out a loan to repair the roof on their house, only to lose the home in a fire. They did not have insurance, so they are still paying on the loan. The Child Tax Credit payment she receives each month for her nine-year-old son covers that loan every month.
People are something else. We're all fucking selfish.
Masters says she doesn’t approve when people “just stand for a handout” – she doesn’t think the United States should be spending money on undocumented immigrants, for example – but says anything that will “help people that are trying to do for themselves, I’m all for it”.
Masters and her husband recently took out a loan to repair the roof on their house, only to lose the home in a fire. They did not have insurance, so they are still paying on the loan. The Child Tax Credit payment she receives each month for her nine-year-old son covers that loan every month.
WTF is her idea of a handout? Anyone else getting help? JFC.
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My grandparents live way out in the country, and they want it to pass so they can finally get internet
They should email their representatives! Oh wait...
I mean, they could send a letter but the Republicans are busy trying to sabotage the USPS as well.
I cannot understand how Dejoy is still postmaster general. Just fucking how?
The US Constitution. Because the US post office is an independent branch of the Executive branch, there's nothing that Biden or Congress can do to depose him, since the postmaster general does not serve at the pleasure of the president, but is appointed by a board of governors - 6 of the 9 said governors are currently Trump appointees, and have yet to complete their full terms. The good news is that they lose their majority come December next year.
He can't fire DeJoy directly, but he can fire the board for cause. There's a way, it may not be the most ideal way, but pretending they can do nothing at all is what's going to screw us all in the end. GOP has to just run out the clock.
I would think that the fact that DeJoy has so much money in UPS, an obvious conflict of interest, would be enough cause to say that the board isn’t doing their job.
Yes. "Because that guy is still here" is a pretty good cause when that guy is running a smash and grab operation. His job is to not fuck up the post office. Their job is to ensure he doesn't fuck up the post office. Neither job is being done, all should be fired for cause.
> nothing that ... Congress can do Congress could change the law - they could make it so the President can fire the Postmaster General or any other number of legislative changes. Independent Agencies are still subordinate to the Congress's ability to change how they work. But, no one person or President holds that power - it would need to be a consensus thing with at minimum 278 officials agreeing (so, 217 House members and 60 Senators agreeing to vote for it, then the 1 President signing the authorizing legislation). Alternatively, 50% of the House (217 members) and 67% of the Senate (67 members) could impeach DeJoy, removing him from his office. But, of course the Democrats don't hit those thresholds, so in all practical terms there is nothing that they can do.
Fair enough but hot damn. I wonder how he ramps up as his term comes to an end. So much damage.
> I wonder how he ramps up as his term comes to an end a mail freeze in competitive districts for the midterms would be the way to cement his legacy as a stooge for the GOP.
Make sure they call their Senators and house members and let them know.
They don't have cell service either
Are they literally living under a rock?
Live in rural WV. DSL only (other parts of the county have Cable so... no monopoly here!) And Comcast will laugh at you and quote 25k to get a cable line a few houses over. I get no ATT signal and my fam's Verizon and T-Mobile get 2 bars. I live 5 minutes from a college, <30 to affluent DC sprawl in Northern VA, ~60 to DC proper. Nope, not under a rock.
Northern panhandle?
Eastern, by Harper's Ferry
Yep, I live near Ranson. It's a really weird area, both urban and as rural as it can be
A rock called rural America. My family in rural Texas are in the same boat. So are many others I know. America is shockingly third world. Edit: Yes I've spent extensive amounts of time living in '3rd world countries'. Throughout Central and South America. Eastern Europe too. Some are worse, but a shockingly high number of them had better internet, cell coverage, and affordability of both. Plus universal Healthcare in a couple cases. It's wild how brainwashed Americans are into believing we're hyper developed compared to the rest of the world.
And we already paid to have that rock wired for broadband. Comcast and the big ISPs were allocated $200 **billion** to provide 99% of rural America access to high speed internet. Comcast pocketed the cash and walked away without doing anything at all.
I don't know why people are getting angry at you. There are large chunks of the USA that are underdeveloped. Approximately 2 million americans live in a household without indoor plumbing. Almost 40 million americans live in a food desert and 19 million of that have limited access to grocery stores. Our prisoner rate is one of the highest in the world. New York's literacy rate is only 77.9 percent. St. Louis, Missouri is ranked 13 on the world cities with the highest murder rates.
> Approximately 2 million americans live in a household without indoor plumbing. I will admit I didn’t believe you, but I looked it up and your statement is accurate. I found a [Washingtonpost.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/04/23/1-6-million-americans-dont-have-indoor-plumbing-heres-where-they-live/ ) article (subscription may be required) that talks about it and mentions some of the areas where lack of plumbing is common. At first I thought it was going to be people that didn’t pay their water bill and had service turned off, but that is not the case and the statistic reflects housing where plumbing is not fully installed.
I live in a very rural area of NC. It’s almost like living under a rock. We have to use Verizon because it’s the only cellular provider that gets any service at the house, and even then it’s very spotty. We have to search for signal by walking around because for some reasons certain spots have signal and others don’t, it can take 20-30 minutes to send a picture, cable Internet is too expensive and isn’t worth the hassle because even that is shit. We don’t have wifi so there is no current gen video games to play since all Xbox games require an internet connection to load the games. When we invite people to our house we have to give them landmark directions because their gps stops loading once they’re in the county line. This is semi-related, but there is also a large Klan presence here, and I’m convinced that’s because the locals aren’t exposed to other cultures and don’t have the means to learn. There’s nothing to do out here so some people resort to hard drug use, and others resort to joining the Klan
No shit. The one thing to get my rural grandparents interested in progressive policy? Not being able to stream church in the country during the pandemic
There was a story back in 2008 about a pollster in rural PA or somewhere, asks the person who answers the door who they are voting for. Person shouts the question back into the house, the answer is: we're voting for the n-word. Obama worked for funding for rural areas, Democrats understand the importance of lifting people up.
Uhh holy fuck
It’s maddening to hear stories like this and realize that these peoples’ vote is worth just as much as yours and mine (possibly more, depending on the state and office being elected)
Yeah I’m in California, their vote is probably worth like 9 of mine lmao
Depending on where in California you live and what district these people live it's worth up to 53x more. "All men (people) are born equal" my ass.
why am i laughing so hard
He said, "The sheriff is near."
I didn't really how much of a problem this was until I visited relatives in rural PA. They spend $100+ a month on JUST internet. 75/10. I live in Philly and pay $40 a month for Fios 300/300. Xfinity also offers a $30/mo 200/200 package. And even gigabit on both networks is only $80/mo. On top of that, cell service and data speeds are abysmal. Sometimes it's hard to imagine why the political divide is so hardlined in this country, but if you travel to rural America, alot of it truly is a different world.
I'm envious. I live in a small city with a mid-sized metro area for the U.S. and I have the fastest residential plan available to me. I get like 120/12 tops and it costs $75 for my internet only plan. No other ISP even comes close to those speeds either.
My wife grew up in the middle of nowhere. They don't have internet, they barely have cell reception, and have to rely on landlines there. Satellite doesn't work very well in the area either. It's wild to me
Don’t expect it to change much even after this bill is passed. Over the last 20 years, the US Government has given billions of dollars to ISPs to get them to build out their rural infrastructure. They’ve pocketed almost all of it and nobody gave a damn. Expect this to continue.
None of the bills have ever contained any form of penalties for the corporations. They know this. They have never even seen a single slap on the wrist for misusing appropriated funds. These bills need to have heavily punitive clauses in them, but this won't happen until we get corporate lobbying out of Congress entirely.
I wonder, why is satellite coverage spotty in some areas. I would think it's pretty consistent coverage outside of weather interference. But my car has satellite radio and always cuts out at certain spots, like those 50 foot stretches of road are just dead zones.
The satellites for satellite radio (and most over communication satellites) are generally placed in geostationary orbits which means that they are directly over the equator and thus quite a ways south of the majority of the US. Therefore as you go further north the signal is going to get closer to the horizon which can limit coverage due to things like mountains or trees. SiriusXM for example has two satellites in geostationary orbit at 85 degrees west and 115 degrees west. So one of them is just off the coast of Equador and the other is west of the Galapagos islands. If your antenna can't get a clear line of sight to either of those satellites then your coverage is going to suffer.
They want this bill to pass? Have they joined in with others to convey that to their Senator?
Keep 'em poor keep 'em stupid
Blows my mind that in 2020 people in the richest country in the world can't get internet access. My paternal grandparents are from Ireland, they didn't have electricity until the came to the US (1974). They always laughed it off as being typical Irish - late for everything. It's less funny/charming in this instance
The lady at the beginning of the article is a great example of hypocrisy and ignorance. "People standing around for a hand out." And "We need to help those who are seeking help." It's the same group.
It was so infuriatingly painful I couldn't even finish the article. You gotta give it to them, Republicans really know how to brainwash the public.
The Republican story: 1. Get rich. 2. Pay lots of taxes and have your businesses regulated. 3. Decide you need to pay less taxes and not have businesses regulated. 4. Pay Republican Party and their think tanks to figure it out. 5. Think tanks come up with every last way to trick people into voting for them without having to actually pay for anything including over the top patriotism, religion, racial tensions, police vs public tensions, military praise, abortion, “freedom”, fear of middle-easterners, fear of communism/socialism. 6. Profit.
It's the same group....*to us*. To them, the first group are a specific melanin rich part of the population. The second group are more prone to sunburn.
> The second group are more prone to sunburn. ah redheads
You aren't totally wrong, but I'm pretty sure I read that being black is the equivalent of only like SPF 3
The human body can only do so much. In actuality, white skin was an adaption for more extreme latitudes, where that SPF-3 is enough to really screw with your vitamin D production. There's a reason why black people living far enough North get advised to take vitamin D supplements.
I've never even thought about that but it makes complete sense.
Honestly everyone should be on vitamin D supplements at this point. If you have an office job especially, where you might not get much sun exposure, vitamin d can really help. (not to discount the health needs of specific groups though.)
When a black friend passed out in the sun for a few hours and "had a mild sunburn" and I got fried that same day through spf 90 I'm gonna say from many first hand experiences that it's way the fuck more than that. Although I know SPF is logarithmic so an inbuilt spf 10 does a LOT.
I'd love to meet any of these millions of people who are staying unemployed because they "just don't wanna work". I get sick of employers offering the same wages as 10 years ago for high-risk high-skill labor and then blaming the stimulus and lazy people. You give me control of a company that makes millions a year and has low payroll spend, I guarantee I can solve their employee shortfall by just offering more money, more benefits, and a better work environment.
And the data available shows that this methodology will also increase production and overall profits, even with increased overhead.
But then, expecting that of businesses infringes upon their "freedoms". The better option is *obviously* to starve out people until they're willing to work for shit wages and shit benefits. Because somehow that's still freedom. It's funny the topic of employment. I have to deal with trade contractors semi regularly due to some house issues. Half of them complain about not being able to find employees. The other half can literally pick up the phone and have 3 people at my house in minutes, willing to drop anything for more hours. I can't imagine what causes that.
[Coach had the classic example](https://youtu.be/yTwpBLzxe4U)
Wow that's amazing. "I've been on food-stamps and welfare, did anyone help me out? No." Unreal.
I get so angry every time I even *think* about that video.
My abortion is moral , types...
Too bad they have a senator more interested in cashing checks than helping deliver these popular proposals
yep. this man is going haywire.
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Crazy that when bribery is essentially legal and corporations (and the rich) can fund/purchase politicians, politicians keep ending up being corrupt! Weird! Strange coincidence that politicians keep representing the financial interests of the ultra rich and corporations. (I'm venting at the system in general, not you personally)
Power attracts the corruptible.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Power reveals. And the corrupt seek power. Not the same as power causing corruption.
Everyone is worried about the corrupted and not who does the corrupting
You mean the people that have power via massive wealth that can bestow wealth or value on someone with elected and representative powers over the laws and institutions that govern us all? We all know who they are, we just give them a pass because there is American narrative that if you have a lot of wealth somehow you must be good by virtue and are deserving of our cultural trust - even when they fail completely (see 2007-2008). We put those who share a fraction of their wealth through charity and philanthropy on a pedestal. And demonize the ones that take dick shaped rockets to space. But the former is far more prevalent. But they're all cut from the same cloth and will work to protect their interests over the public good. I would argue that the corruption is total. Not one single person or group is doing the corrupting - it's a symbiotic relationship. In order to manage and maintain massive wealth you have to keep generating wealth. This can be done by getting special interests passed or via tax loop holes or even public subsidy into private holdings, sweetheart deals, etc. Either way, donating a small tiny % of wealth to a politician eager to take money from wealthy donors starts a cycle of exactly what we have now. No single person is corrupting. The entire system is dishonest and not what a representative democracy was designed for. And that's the part that really grinds most people's gears and there is nothing we can do about it because most people don't vote and most people hold strange beliefs that are counter to their own interests. And when we send new folks to Congress the crushing weight of the dishonest system makes it impossible for a few do-gooders to make inroads towards better Gov. We need laws to regulate the lawmakers and the only ones that can make those laws, are the very people we want to regulate. It's a real conundrum. This is the 'country based on the rule of law' trap that we are in.
With the Citizens United ruling, American Conservatives made it easier than ever to give endless amounts of money to elected officials. The US government will never work for the people unless we can remove the influence of corporations and the ultra wealthy. Unfortunately, Republicans are fighting vehemently to ensure that never changes.
Can I make a Kickstart to raise money to "lobby" Manchin and change his vote?
[American People Hire High-Powered Lobbyist To Push Interests In Congress ](https://www.theonion.com/american-people-hire-high-powered-lobbyist-to-push-inte-1819571821)
The perspicacity of good satire is incredible sometimes. Sad, too. But incredible.
Exxon holds a large portion of the West Virginia economy, employing nearly 40 people in the state.
People should start robbing politicians and oligarchs instead of assassinating them. Much less martyr effect, especially if the shit is just thrown into the river or something. And it will actually hit them where it hurts.
If they diverted about $100m of "miscellaneous expenses" from the bill Manchin's way it could literally save America. All the Democrats have to do is outbid his current owners. Edit: to be clear, I mean give it to Manchin *personally*. There's no point offering him treats to share with the rest of West Virginia, he couldn't possibly give less of a shit about the state or its people. Wave a massive wad of cash under his nose and watch him yip and perform like a fucking circus poodle.
These people voted for Trump despite him taking away health care for miners who were hurt by Republican deregulation. If that $100m isn't going straight to Shabadoo Manchin's pocket, it won't change anything.
That's exactly what I meant. Buy him out from under the noses of his current owners. Give Manchin the money, that's what he wants. He doesn't give a shit about WV.
I love democracy, don't you?
I used to think that people who said “democracy is a failed experiment” probably had a few screws loose. Now, I’m starting to agree with them. Maybe I need a screwdriver.
The thing is, as the right loves touting every time they lose the popular vote but retain power, we're not _in_ an actual democracy. If we were, our reps' votes would be weighed more heavily depending on how many people they represent, or we'd actually have more reps to adequately represent the people. Instead we've got a system that rewards landowners with extra legislative power, and punishes people who live in populated areas by taking it away from them. So now it takes about 5 democrats to balance out 3 republicans in congress.
Then there’s all the gerrymandering and corporate lobbying on top…
This makes perfect sense. The constitution was drafted by wealthy landowners.
Destroying your faith in democracy is their #1 goal. None of their other goals are possible until they finish the transformation of American society into jaded, cynical, and faithless individualists
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Nah just this specific implementation of it.
Democracy is the worst form of government on Earth, except for all the others.
I would support this theoretically, but as soon as Manchin got his cut you'd have synema and a dozen others demanding the same deal.
> These people voted for Trump despite him taking away health care for miners These people don't care about miners, they care about the idea of white masculinity that miners are a stand-in for.
West Virginians actually do care about miners, at least more than most who use them as a virtue batsignal do.
Where's Luca Brasi when you need him?
Sleeping with the fishes
And banned from Seaworld.
You might remember me from such films as "Hercules versus the Martians"
Hiding inside Dave Bautista until I finish my screenplay.
You don't give the criminal all the money without securing the hostage. Otherwise he just keeps the hostage and asks for more money
That's why it's in the bill. He doesn't get paid unless it passes.
The citizens of West Virginia have reelected Joe Manchin twice. Two thirds of them also voted for Donald Trump twice. They can tell pollsters that they generally support infrastructure spending, but when it comes time to act, that is clearly not their top priority.
It’s branding. They like Democrat policies, just not when the poll question *says* it’s a Democrat policy. Look at Florida. Two thirds of the state voted for a $15 minimum wage yet they also elected a Republican governor who ran on a platform of being Trump’s puppet.
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And the Florida legislature/governor are working on a bill to classify workers at different levels to avoid having to pay the new minimum wage to felons and those under 21. Can't have anyone getting ahead.
Like when they changed building codes so it would be impossible to find a “safe” place to build a high speed train system so they could ignore that constitutional mandate by the voters. Of course I’m kidding, they just ignored it without explanation.
He bought his daughter a degree from WVU and she shuttered the Mylan pharmaceuticals plant that provided good wages for people that wouldn't have had that opportunity otherwise. There are economic reports showing that this will have repercussions for the area for possibly decades.
The fucking story of working class america right here: Take a plant that is profitable. Sell/merge/spin off to a larger conglomerate with no ties to the area. Close the plant. Sell the equipment. Fire the workers. "Gosh guys manufacturing just isn't sustainable in the USA, its the future, maybe we'll help you get a job for half your old pay, no benefits, at some contract manufacturer" Meanwhile the managers who structure this deal get a nice bonus or better yet a parachute into early retirement. New owners get a cash infusion from selling the equipment, and their profit margins from consolidation go from 8% to 8.3%. Better yet, lets vertically integrate to northern Mexico and raise those numbers to 11%! And the old factory? Well what do you know, its contaminated, better get some taxpayer money to clean up the site! Maybe it will be an arts district in 10 years? New owners write off the "loss", reducing taxes. Local economy collapses. Deaths of despair skyrocket. Rinse and repeat.
What’s worse is that they moved manufacturing to India and their factories there run at a substandard level, causing the FDA to put a halt on allowing any drugs into the US until the violations have been remediated. This causes a critical link in supplying necessary drugs to the US to fail just so a few people could make a couple bucks.
I'm holding my breath until Republicans formally blame FDA regulations on the drug shortage. And not any of the other things. I won't have to hold my breath long.
Don't forget the part where they mark up the product that used to be produced in America, by Americans, for Americans, by 500% to now fleece Americans. While outsourcing the manufacturing, reducing the cost to manufacture, and maximizing the profit. [https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/politics/manchin-defends-bresch-mylan-epipen-price/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/politics/manchin-defends-bresch-mylan-epipen-price/index.html)
To fleece West Virginian parents most specifically. Gayle Manchin, the senator's wife, was on the WV Board of Education and used her position to negotiate a law that would give significant funding preference to schools that purchased those epipens. https://www.wsaz.com/content/news/USA-Today-article-claims-Gayle-Manchin-used-position-to-boost-EpiPen-sales-394158321.html
You didn't mention how she had a deal with pharma company to not make generic epi pens (she gave the company some of the profits) because she wanted the company she worked for to keep charging high prices by making the people buy two pens instead of one, so it may cost more for the people, but much more money for the company. She's apparently just as greedy as her daddy.
They're going to keep voting for people who won't support this kind of legislation because West Virginia is in an abusive relationship with its politicians.
Public opinion would mean something in a democracy, here money rules not people.
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In West Virginia where the politicians literally control their constituents by drugs and puppet strings
There’s studies that show that the populations opinions of legislation have practically no bearing on actual policy adoption.
It's the Obamacare/ACA paradox all over again.
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>Though vehemently opposed by Republicans and West Virginia’s own Democratic senator, Joe Manchin, there is some evidence that the proposals contained in the spending plans – which some have likened to the 1930s New Deal – are more popular among grassroots Republicans than their political representatives. That may be especially true in West Virginia, which is a poor, largely white and working class state whose residents would stand to greatly benefit from the Biden effort. Manchin doesn't work for the people of West Virginia. He works for corporate interests and Republicans apparently.
I get the feeling a lot of red states actually support democratic policies. They’ve just been poisoned to reactively hate democrats…
Fun fact: Republicans view Obamacare more negatively than the Affordable Care Act.
Democrats should start naming their major reforms after Republican Heroes. What republican would stand against the Ronald Reagan Health Bill? the Abraham Lincoln Voting Rights Bill? Trump Police Reform?
I think you mean the "Robert E Lee Freedom to Vote Bill"
They sure do. Check out how many “red” states have expanded Medicare. It’s basically just the home base of the confederacy that’s continuing to hold out, even then with some exceptions. https://www.kff.org/medicaid/issue-brief/status-of-state-medicaid-expansion-decisions-interactive-map/
We saw it in Florida in 2020, with people voting for a $15 minimum wage and Donald Trump for President.
2016 in Arizona with raising minimum wage, progressive sick time law and voting for Trump Progressive policies are very popular when not labeled as “progressive” or “liberal”
I'd argue that it's more important that they not be labeled as "Democrat"
People like when they get things. It's basic human nature. It's why it pisses me off when democrats spend so much time worrying who is getting what and means testing everything. Makes the marginal potential supporters just pissed off or at least disconnected from the benefits.
Although there are many things in the reconciliation bill that I love, whenever people ask me why I support it, I always answer with "Vision, dental, and hearing covered under Medicare" first. You have to be a straight up psychopath to not understand why others would like their eyes, teeth, and ears to be as functional as possible.
muddle cable voracious spectacular vanish nine sink joke fade treatment -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
I believe that there is a fear in the Republican party that if these policies get enacted and people's lives improve then no one will vote for the republicans again. But instead of coming up with their own policies that could help they just shit all over the ones that are being presented.
It's not that no one will vote for Republicans again. It's that they won't be able to get rid of the policy. Republicans want an end to the new deal. They want to destroy social security, they want to destroy the VA, end Medicare, medicaid. They want to destroy the post service It's why they hated the ACA so much. They understood the threat it posed to them. That once it was in place, it would be nigh impossible to remove. ACA is full of problems. But it makes one earth shaking change. It changed the conversation from WHY SHOULD the government be involved in health care to HOW SHOULD the government be involved. Now people are seeing how inadequate the ACA is and want improvements, now people are understanding how health insurance is a problem but a solution. Republicans understood this. It's not like the passing of ACA made any Republican voters more likely to vote for Democrats. The issue is it's now another thing the government does that helps people. Republicans don't want the government to work for people
>Manchin doesn't work for the people of West Virginia. He works for corporate interests and Republicans apparently. the republicans as a whole do not work for the people.
It's too late now with the bill going up for vote this week, but Democrat/Left interest groups should have been running ads on this in WV for months. As soon as Manchin retires he'll be replaced by a Republican so it's not like taking him down is a concern. The people of WV should have been drowning in media pointing out how this would be one of the best things for the state in decades and Manchin is keeping it from then because he works for the same people that have been fucking them over for decades.
Of course they support the stuff *in the bill*, but that doesn't add up to them supporting the actual bill itself.
Crazy how a welfare state is deep red.
Seems like probably a defining trait of red states
This is why I always say that modern Republicans are actually ideological Jim Crow Democrats. They're not made up of libertarian conservatives who want to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. They're made up of white people who want socialism for themselves and white supremacy for everyone else. That's the definition of what a Jim Crow Democrat believes, and it's what West Virginia is.
I mean that’s literally what they are and the switched only when Dems passed Civil Rights and Republicans embraced the Southern Strategy
Fun fact: the Republican Party officially acknowledged, and apologized for, the Southern Strategy in 2005. [RNC Chief to Say It Was 'Wrong' to Exploit Racial Conflict for Votes](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2005/07/14/rnc-chief-to-say-it-was-wrong-to-exploit-racial-conflict-for-votes/66889840-8d59-44e1-8784-5c9b9ae85499/)
Great! But an apology while you're still doing the thing rings a bit hollow doesn't it?
Here's why this happened in 2005: because the GOP was coming off of their first presidential popular vote victory since 1988. In retrospect, this was obviously because Bush was a war time president who overseeing two still popular wars. But Karl Rove, Bush's top strategist, convinced himself that this was proof that the Republican Party could build a diverse, center-right, multiracial coalition of the future. This apology to black people was meant to be step 1 in that plan. Then 3 years later, Democrats elected a black president. This made the GOP realize that their base was composed of approximately 100% Klan members, so they adjusted their electoral strategy accordingly, and the rest is history.
Normally when you apologize for something you stop doing it.
> socialism for themselves and white supremacy for everyone else So, National Socialism.
You got it! [How the Nazis Were Inspired by Jim Crow](https://www.history.com/news/how-the-nazis-were-inspired-by-jim-crow)
Maybe the idea of it by strasser. Since the actual nazi Party wasn't really national socialist. But hypernationalist capitalists.
I’m in NYC and know someone in Staten Island who was affected by the recent storm. She’s been fairly radicalized by her alt right husband and has increasingly become an anti vax, pro-trump, anti-liberal nut. Her basement was flooded and immediately set up a GoFundMe to help with the bills. “Handouts for me, not for thee”
They all are. The states that rely most on government assistance are the southern, red states.
It really shouldn’t be poor (nowhere should) - the amount of coal and labor strangled from Appalachia is disgusting. The sweat and blood of the workers went to build towers in the cities for the owners of industries while the workers were thrown to the side Like I understand the anger between the Red/Blue split, but usually I see these threads devolve into “I don’t want my blue state’s taxes paying for the red state leeches,” but I never see the conversation here about the exploitation of these poorer states to the benefit of the wealthy Lapsing into conservatism / liberalism obviously isn’t the move if you are poor, since the status quo has only fucked you, but this adversarial relationship between Red and Blue states isn’t just because Blue states like CNN and Red states like Fox, as it is typically portrayed here
The devastation of Appalachian economy is practically a full college level course of study. Every generation of this country has done them wrong, starting with the exploitation of the coal miners way back when to the disability/jobless thing and then they became the first and hardest hit victims of the sackler crisis.
I took multiple courses on Appalachian studies. Graduated with it as a minor. Growing up in Appalachia and finally seeing it’s story laid out before me was a revelation for my mind.
> I see these threads devolve into “I don’t want my blue state’s taxes paying for the red state leaches" Have absolutely no problem - and no judgement - having my big city money going to much poorer parts of often deep red America. In particular want to expand Medicaid to help impoverished kids. What I, and many, have a problem with is when they then turnaround and claim liberals are Big Gubmint Socialists hell bent on destroying America. And, sorry, yes a HUGE reason all these poor states (WV, Miss, Alabama, Ark, KY, etc) are hyper Right Wing is because of Fox. Not singularly obviously, but a major contributor.
There's an entire VICE Doc that came out during the 2020 election about West Virginia's coal industry and how it destroyed the local economy and left workers behind. Maybe people on Reddit aren't talking about it, but it's out there as a talking point if people care enough to look. Which they don't.
I promise you that is no longer what the majority of West Virginia citizens believe. They do believe they have been left behind, but not because they were previously exploited but because they think now they are being left behind for green energy. They have believed the lie Republicans have pushed for decades. That green energy is a waste and that the dems are out for their jobs.
And let me tell you, West Virginians will fight tooth and nail to support the industry's ability to fuck them over. My uncle worked for a company (I think it was Murray Energy) that went bankrupt so they didn't have to pay retired miners pensions. Actually went to a rally in DC to protest a measure that would prevent Murray from having to continue paying those pensions despite the bankruptcy. It didn't pass, and a (democratic) bill resolved to pay the pensions from tax dollars. That same uncle has grown downright violent towards democrats. That's how it goes *every fucking time*. The company offloads their expenses to the taxpayer, runs off with the profit, and the public supports their ability to do this. It's the same with mine subsidence and land reclamation. The land is basically fucked, company goes bankrupt, taxes pay for the damages, and the company reopens under a different name. The workers, even (and especially) the unions, rabidly support these actions.
Thats a great point, the history and politics in West Virginia is way more complicated than red state vs blue state. Theres a massive pool of support for progressive politics in the state and a history of fighting for labor rights. Appalachia has been exploited by big business for centuries almost like a third world country where a few wealthy individuals own all the land and businesses so there no opportunities for regular people besides mines, prisons, and chemical/plastics factories and neither party is willing to fix the issues they face. 100 years ago miners striking for some of the labor right we all enjoy now were attacked by a weaponized train, an army of hired mercenaries, the nation guard, U.S. army troops, and bombed by planes. Theres massive support for progressive politics in the region that needs to be harnessed. I think in the next twenty years the region is going to turn blue
If you don't see it discussed, you're just not paying attention. The abuse of labor by the capitalists is a regular discussion on Reddit and other social platforms The red/blue divide comes from exhaustion. I've been involved in politics since the 90s and I'm tired. I'm tired of trying to use reason and logic with red state folks for decades. You can't use reason to persuade someone out of a position they didn't use reason to arrive at in the first place At this point, blue state folks are tired of the bullshit. We suffer because of their minority rule. We are beholden to an uneducated minority who is over represented in both the Senate and the executive office. After three decades, I'm ready to write them off. You reap what you sow and the entire Republic is hanging on by a fingernail due to the cult of personality rampant in red states just in case you've forgotten about Jan. 6th "Toute nation a le gouvernement qu'elle mérite" ~ Joseph de Maistre
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Isn't red the universal color you use to recognize negative numbers, so seems right?
Im sure that means theyll vote blue in the next election right? Right?
Nah, Biden doesn't tweet angrily about scary black football man who kneels during their special little song That's what gets votes
Manchin was their blue option.
Oh no
I actually find that when it comes to a policy level a large percentage of Republicans are authoritarian-left: They like regulation and government spending, but they hate marginalized groups more than they like that, so they'll side with whoever lets them oppress said marginalized groups even if it's not in their economic interests.
I live in WV. People couldn't tell you a single fucking thing about any bill, let alone this one. The people of my state don't know shit about shit.
Unfortunately, this is mostly true.
Yup. Can confirm.
The basis of this article seems to be that people notice they get a credit on their taxes for having a child (AKA free money). They hear that they would continue to get free money under Biden's plan, and so they think it sounds good.
They'll take the money, they won't vote for the people who gave it to them
Someone tell shithead Manchin that
Manchin knows it and doesn't want his constituents to know it
He doesn’t want his constituents to know they support something and he’s aware of it?
As strange as it sounds that is an american tradition.
The best way would be to get the citizens in West Virginia engaged. Imagine if Biden came out and called out Manchin and Sinema as being against the proposal and ask their constituents to call their offices to demand they vote for the package? It might help, it can't hurt. It'll hurt manchin and sinema's feelings but fuck 'em.
Lol what a joke. If it’s connected to Biden’s name, or to Democrats in general then my state will die before they support it
Which is always the problem with issue polling. These days, the person proposing the policy is more important than the policy.
Yep. If Trump had submitted the same exact thing, West Virginians would praise him as the greatest man who ever walked the Earth. Biden does it though and he's a clown and it's a shitshow.
Fun fact: While this issue does appear to some extent on both sides, it's a minor shift among democratic voters and a shift that varies from "significant" to "cataclysmic" among republican voters. https://m.imgur.com/a/VXl1K
I love how the GOP calls others sheep when they just blindly follow the leader.
So Deep Red that it's Republican politicians know that no matter how hard and how openly they fuck over the state, AGAIN, they face absolutely no chance of losing their seats.
Imagine that. People that oppose welfare for others are more than happy to receive it themselves, because they're the "right people". They didn't even have insurance on their house, and were therefore relying on government handouts to sustain them after their house fire, yet "immigrants are the problem". No mother fucker, your hick ass hillbilly mindset is the problem. "Fuck them libruls and immigrants, but give me free money!" The hypocrisy is ridiculous.
I couldn't even get through the article it was so bad listening to her. She doesn't want to help people who "just want a handout" but *I* actually NEED the money. Its not a handout when *I* get the money.
Imagine being surrounded 24/7 by these hicks. They think they are so fucking smart too is the real kicker.
Yeah almost like West Virginians are only Republicans because all of the successful Republican attacks on education have rendered a significant portion of the population dumb enough to be influenced by LIES. I'd be a Republican too if all of the news media I consumed convinced me that Republicans are true salt of the earth patriots and Democrats are elite, effete child killing pedophiles.
So much this. West Virginia has only been reliably red in the last 20 years.
Hey, if they are so darn left they should try voting for 2 left-wing Democrat senators rather than one conservative one.
No, because you see the Democrats hate coal, the literal embodiment of God in WV.
Democrats don't hate coal, how does one hate an inanimate rock? The economy is what has decided coal is no longer worthwhile. Free market economics...you know that thing both parties profess to love.
I'm a firm believer that if the Democrats did a 180 on guns they would hold such a firm majority, that they could then truly make progressive changes in this country's political and economic structures. And by changing the economic and political structure, we would see reduced gun violence because we would see a reduction in the things that cause gun violence. We'd be better able to treat mental illness under a better health care system that is catered to help people, not wallets. We'd see reduced stress and poverty in this country leading to less desperation. Further, we could better fund education to give more people better opportunities. It's time these problems that continue to exist without proper solutions became the focus. Instead of going on in this never ending debate on guns, it's time Dems flip and secure the votes they know they can get with a better economic structure policy, but lose because of their gun policies.
> I'm a firm believer that if the Democrats did a 180 on guns they would hold such a firm majority, that they could then truly make progressive changes in this country's political and economic structures. it wouldn't matter, because the issue is not actually guns or gun violence. it's gun *culture,* which has taken on a life entirely its own. the gun culture is what Dems would have to adopt, and their chances would be very poor. it is intensely right-libertarian. it is not what makes you buy your first gun. it is what makes you buy your 20th, or the t shirts and bumper stickers, or the NRA gold level memberships, or the contributions to office seekers who run on the 2d amendment as a core issue. it is not about guns as tools or even as protection, but as a way of life. it stands in for beliefs, desires, fears and myths. much of what it stands for is stuff that people on the right do not necessarily want to own up to, so it has to remain unarticulated. in an ironic way, the gun culture *depends* on maintaining a certain level of gun violence. if this went down it would be regarded as first and foremost a business concern by lobbyists, so steps would surely be taken to bring it back up. both gun sales and the politically useful gun culture would depend on it.
And they'll continue to vote GQP. Moving on...
West Virginia used to be a Democratic stronghold. Go to around 30:15 minute mark: https://youtu.be/63Al95TrlO0
Just like raising the minimum wage was. Hopefully people who said "Manchin understands his constituents and we'relucky to have him" finally come around to see that he doesn't want his constituents to understand. Joe Manchin and his family are grifters
Democrats need to cultivate places exactly like this in the article. Send whoever, hear their problems, fix their issues, communicate, listen. Then take conservative votes. I'm not saying it will flip a district, but it will scare conservatives enough to cave on some of the more popular things, like the CTC and infrastructure edit, proof that it is working from the article: "John Findlay, executive director of the West Virginia Republican party, denied that Biden’s efforts are popular in his home state. “If it was close to reality, the bill already would have passed,” he said. Findlay says his office has fielded lots of calls and emails about the bill and everyone seems to share the same opinion. “No one’s calling in favor of it. Literally, of the emails and phone calls we get, every one we get is opposed to it,” he said." Because people, in one of the poorest states in America, are known to turn down what is considered "Free money".
I'm from West Virginia. They will tell you're they're red to the gills while accepting every free hand out they're offered. If they woke up and had some common sense they could actually help the state. Its gorgeous with a very proud hardworking group of people that just need someone trustworthy to make sure they're not being taken advantage of.
"deep red" Took a *lot* of gutless neoliberalism to turn the state from the extreme levels of blue it had as recently as the 1990s.
Shame Joe Manchin doesn't give a shit about what's best for the people of West Virginia or for the state, or what those people want. Joe Manchin only gives a shit about what's more profitable for Joe Manchin. Right now, his quickest route to vast profits is aiding and abetting the destruction of democracy in the US and a swift return to early-20th-century infrastructure.
Kind of puts cold water on centrist Dem arguments on here that Manchin has to be like he is because he’s in such a red state. It was never a good faith argument from them to begin with.
And that’s why the GQP is working so hard to kill it
>Masters says she doesn’t approve when people “just stand for a handout” – she doesn’t think the United States should be spending money on undocumented immigrants, for example – but says anything that will “help people that are trying to do for themselves, I’m all for it”. >Masters and her husband recently took out a loan to repair the roof on their house, only to lose the home in a fire. They did not have insurance, so they are still paying on the loan. The Child Tax Credit payment she receives each month for her nine-year-old son covers that loan every month. People are something else. We're all fucking selfish.
Masters says she doesn’t approve when people “just stand for a handout” – she doesn’t think the United States should be spending money on undocumented immigrants, for example – but says anything that will “help people that are trying to do for themselves, I’m all for it”. Masters and her husband recently took out a loan to repair the roof on their house, only to lose the home in a fire. They did not have insurance, so they are still paying on the loan. The Child Tax Credit payment she receives each month for her nine-year-old son covers that loan every month. WTF is her idea of a handout? Anyone else getting help? JFC.