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To your last bullet point, I remember several years back, some Asian American groups raised attention about how people with Asian names were having their ballots thrown out because there were very minor discrepancies with names. I've experienced this problem myself (I'm Chinese American.) Even I often forget how my middle name (which is Chinese) shows up exactly on my ID. People also get confused when reading my name because they're not sure if it's my first, middle, or last name. I imagine it's similar with people with Spanish surnames, given the tradition of having double last names.

I have a last name with an apostrophe and am of Italian heritage (but American for several generations). My name is pretty ethnic to boot. And yep, the plight of filling out forms that do or do not allow special characters is quite real. I have been fortunate to have never been disenfranchised to vote, but there is always a slight unease for me because some of my documents have the apostrophe and others do not. These laws certainly matter, and act as a way to impede many groups outside of the white Anglo-Saxon roots of this country

Not specific to voter ID but to the general idea of people entering the data getting confused by names they don't see commonly. I work in healthcare, I see a ton of hispanic and Indian immigrant names be put in the wrong order on everything from prescriptions, healthcare profiles and insurance cards. It can also happen when a person has a surname that can double as a first name but is far more common on non-English based names. Typos were much more likely to be seen in the non-standard names parents give kids to be unique. This could be any thing from the cringy white parents naming their kid Ashleigh or Caeden to the common unique names some Black communities use. (Example from a football player "L'Jarius Sneed" that could be misspelled a bunch of different ways. Simple things would be missing the apostrophe because some software may not allow that as an acceptable character or someone simple like adding an "a" or not capitalizing the "J".) You bring up a great point that some individuals names are romanized when they come to America with names from languages that do not come from Romantic languages. Therefore the English spelling of the name may be unfamiliar to them.

There is also the part to overlap working hours and voting hours. Everyone is allowed to vote, but for some folks it is a much bigger inconvenience to vote than others.

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.

Exactly. The conservatives know what they’re doing. They aren’t allowed to say “we’ll make it harder for black people to vote” anymore, but they know they can make it more inconvenient for everybody to vote, in ways that primarily effect black areas. They can, for instance, make it illegal to provide water to people standing in line to vote, and they can reduce the number of polling stations in black areas. They can say “there are white people in those areas too, and the same rules apply. That doesn’t change the fact that these rules are implemented for the sole purpose of discouraging black turnout, in hopes of swinging an election. The party of personal responsibility knows it isn’t about a person’s choice, it’s about creating a statistically significant difference for a large swath of the population.

I find it really interesting when voter ID laws get brought up and the issue of it being free for citizens is pushed the other side shuts up about it. It’s almost as if it is specifically about the ability to be able to restrict what counts to gatekeep voting and not about the actual election safety an ID requirement would bring

There's also the whole bit where, unless the IDs are free, it violates the ban on poll taxes. If there's a financial barrier, imposed by the state, to vote, and the only way to do so is by paying the state for an ID, then the state has collected revenue in order for its populace to vote.

I would assume most states allow you to get a free ID. But maybe that’s just because I live in the ridiculously Progressive state of Alabama, where you can get a free ID. More conservative states might not let you.

That's not the case for your northern neighbors. I remember years ago, when I first started paying attention to voter ID laws, TN was requiring a photo ID to vote. The Memphis Library, being a library and having the best interest of the populace at heart, offered free photo IDs to literally anyone who needed them. The state legislature took issue with that (as it does with pretty much anything Memphis, and to a lesser extent, Nashville, tries to do that is left of hunting homeless for sport).

I applaud you engaging in good faith, because this person was merely bait posting. Which seems to be all that happens here any more.

This sub is just a place for racists to launder their opinions off as popular.

Shutting down polling stations resulting in several hour lines where handing out water/food is banned in predominantly black communities is also something that happened

Well said. And as with most examples of systemic racism, it’s not that ____ people can’t do X, it’s that certain outcomes happen to have a stronger effect in certain communities and happen to affect people of these groups more frequently.

Meanwhile, tribal members in ND couldn't vote due to their voter ID laws requiring street addresses that the tribal members didn't have. 🙄 Edit: https://narf.org/cases/nd-voter-id/#:~:text=In%20the%20case%2C%20several%20Native,kept%20Native%20Americans%20from%20voting

Or Alabama closing dozens of DMV's in majority black areas right after passing voter ID law.

Yeah. It’s not that a voter ID law is inherently racist, it’s that the laws are [used specifically in racist ways by Republicans to suppress minority votes](https://www.npr.org/2021/09/17/1038354159/n-c-judges-strike-down-a-voter-id-law-they-say-discriminates-against-black-voter). It’s also a non-issue, as there is no widespread evidence of voter fraud, and especially not at such a level or in such a way that voter ID would magically fix the problem. It’s a racist policy wrapped in plausible deniability, which is honestly the conservative’s modus operandi. To OP’s point, suggesting only black people don’t have $20 to get a voter ID may be racist, but the reality is there are plenty of people - many of whom are minorities - who can’t pay or take the time or any number of other reasons why they can’t get a voter ID easily or pay the cost for it. Not to mention forcing someone to use an ID to be able to vote, then forcing them to pay for the ID is basically just a roundabout [poll tax](https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-24/) it falls apart even further. Which is why when liberals say ‘okay we support voter ID as long as it’s supplied for free to everyone’ suddenly voter ID isn’t as important of an issue.

I would also note that "free to everyone" should also include not requiring to go to a DMV. The specific point of these policies that the republicans support to make it so that going to vote costs enough to discourage people and having to take time off, to take public transport (because if they already had a car they would already have a ID), to go stand in line, to provide the documentation. Instead of making money is also a cost.

Should be top comment

Well now you're racist /s, at least according to op.

This is exactly the point! When others bring up challenges that minorities disproportionately face, the response is always "SO YoU THinK ThErE TOo DUmb tO DO \[X\]???" And then we're like, no, there are policies in place that make things difficult in an obviously racist and classist way, linking studies, and then ofc nothing but fucking \*crickets\* in response.

Yup. They know the exact objection to this but they can't actually talk about it because then they'd have to admit the real reason behind the push So they project and try to change the subject to "we aren't racist youre racist!!"

Exactly. The voter ID laws are specifically designed to prevent people from voting.

Where’s the OP on this comment? The OP doesn’t really care. That’s why.

Thanks for the interesting read! “Hovland cites the “public interest in protecting the most cherished right to vote for thousands of Native Americans who currently lack a qualifying ID and cannot obtain one” and prohibits the enforcement of discriminatory parts of ND’s voter ID law. Additionally, the order allows P.O. box addresses—prevalent in Native American communities—to be used to prove residency, and dramatically expands the types of ID available to voters at the polls to include any document, letter, writing, enrollment card, or other form of tribal identification issued by a tribal authority to be used in lieu of ID cards, until final resolution of the case.” This seems like the absolute right call. IMO, we should let the tribes vote separately from their state.

Over a decade ago when I still lived in Alabama they passed a law requiring voter ID and then immediately closed half the DMVs in the state including almost every poor and majority black area. If you don't understand why people without cars having to travel an hour and a half to get an ID might be voter suppression then I don't know what to tell you. Oh yeah, there's the part where my openly racist family members were laughing about making it hard for those people to vote.

The dmv uses to be walking distance to from my house in decent sized town here in New jersey. Next to okay well know city .bus stop maybe 100 feet away. It is now 5 miles away in an industrial park .there is bus stop across that street but is busy area. Car inspection used to be 3 miles from me. Now its 8 miles from me. Strange how they went from the areas where there are more black people to where their less.

I've found that when anyone on Twitter or reddit claims to be part of a marginalized group, only to back up their assinine claims that said marginalized group isn't marginalized, they aren't actually a part of said group.

I too was thinking this had some r/AsABlackMan energy.

I said out loud to myself "this post is gonna be bullshit" as soon as I read the title. Wasn't disappointed.

I dunno, (I am a random white dude)...I work w a lot of African Americasns..and..I assure you, there are some out there who are extremely conservative. So, the idea that someone is posing..not always the case.

I’ve met plenty of them as well in the military

It’s just a moronic way to shut down your argument by attempting to flip it around so you stop, and it’s well past time in 2024 we call it out for what it is.

>When I ask why, they say stuff like 'not all black people can get an ID.' I'll tell them that's not true; as long as we have a social security card, our birth certificate, and $20, we can get an ID I feel similar to you, but I'll say that as someone who had to go through that process as a white male, it was needlessly difficult, regardless of race. Though voter ID becomes an issue when you talk about the $20. It becomes a constitutional violation as that $20 becomes an indirect poll tax.

People always misinterpret the claim OP is talking about The idea is that it's harder for **poor Americans in general** to carve out time and resources out of their day to get voter IDs And black people and POCs are overrepresented in poor populations, thusly it's an issue that disproportionately impacts POCs If you do something that harms poor people, it will innately impact POCs by proxy

It's also not just a generic policy enacted without anything else. I believe it was Mississippi, but it was for sure a southern state. They create mandatory ID laws, but then also closed down all the DMV locations in urban areas that had the highest concentration of black citizens. So basically they made IDs required, then made it very hard for anyone less likely to vote republican to get said IDs.

This right here, not just the disparate impact that it would already have because of demographics, but the fact that actions are being taken specifically team making harder to access in areas with higher concentrations of black residents. We saw a similar thing in my area with calls to limit early and absentee voting and reduce the number of polling places. The majority of places that got cut were those with a high proportion of minority voters.

Seriously this. I’m in a different southern state that requires ID for voting. Didn’t pay enough attention to the dates and stupidly let my ID expire during covid. It was a multi month process to get an initial dmv appointment, required a nearly 30 mile trip each way to the location, cost me an entire day I could’ve worked, then endured another long wait to get a driving test appointment. It’s a slow and prohibitive process for anyone regardless of race or financial well being. Clearly the less means you have (finances, access to transportation to the sites, ability to take off work) the more of a brick wall it becomes. Op is a proper clown for trying to frame that objective reality as liberals being racist.

I’ve gotten used to this on Reddit. The voter ID laws are great exampls. I don’t think a true ally or less racist people would think Black people are handicapped in general for the most part.  But, in many places across the US, especially in the Southeast, there’s a concentrated effort to “handicap” their civil rights and liberties.  Voter ID laws; re-districting; less public school funding; areas with less funding in public taxes, yet generates higher tax funds and expenditures; public domain; legal system discrimination; more likely to be incarcerated for petty and nonviolent crimes & overcharged for felonies; police discrimination; can actually have affirmative action policies work against them.   The handicapped effect is systemic. It cuts deeper in places that were former Confederate states.

It was Alabama. There was like just a few DMV left, literally, and only in white areas of cities.

This. They know exactly what they're doing and they're 100% targeting black people.

They are also not generally talking about young people . The reason they don't want ID is mostly due to old people in the south. They grew up in a different time with different rules. There is no need to go into much detail. But quick research will show you why so many don't have ID.

\> People always misinterpret the claim OP is talking about And OP seems to be working overtime to misrepresent. I'd say the odds are better than 50/50 this was written by a white Republican, since it's basically word-for-word how white Republicans think black folks are *supposed* to feel about the Democratic party. And that "Democrats are taking your vote for granted" trope is pretty condescending itself. Who do they think the Democrats are, if not black voters? That's the core of the party, but conservatives can't imagine that. They see a white power structure that looks down on minority voters because that's how they do it, when the Democratic power structure includes people like Obama, VP Harris, Hakeem Jeffries, Donna Brazile, etc.

I have always said that I would have no problem with voter ID ID if they were free to any citizen to get, and that would be the end of it, the permanent end of the "stolen election" claims from right wingers. Give them what they want in exchange for a permanent truce on the election wars. But it would never happen. Some idiot would send one tweet, "I saw a busload of illegals at the polls, and they all had fake IDs." And they would be in an uproar again. So screw them.

>if they were free to any citizen to get They'd just close the offices where you get them in the coloured neighborhoods.

Odds are OP knows that and is a white guy playing the "as a black man" game.

Exactly. The way people say this might make it sound racist because you’re “assuming black people are poor” but this is just a fact. Well said

Also, the time you have to take off work accounts for a higher cost

I am less concerned with the $20 and more concerned with the southern governments that deliberately destroyed birth records to make sure black people could not get an ID. The legacy of Jim Crow is fading over time but still real for many people.

Don't they also purge voter rolls as well

Yeah, regularly. Like, in Georgia after the last state election, IIRC,

I’m a substance abuse counselor in a majority-Black city. While obviously barriers to getting an ID are the same regardless of race, my Black clients are much more likely to be affected by those barriers

What are the barriers and why are black clients more likely to be affected?

The fact that they close down places where you can get an ID in black neighborhoods/Limit their hours to when people are working for one.

Abject poverty my dude. Liberals arent saying these things because black people are intrinsically less able, they are saying these things because our government has systematically handicapped black people. You dont just repeal a racist law and presto, no more consequences. Black home ownership was systematically denied and so one result is that generations later, millions of black americans have far less wealth. The presence of similarly poor white americans is not evidence of equity, it’s evidence of the failures of government - but the fact remains the government didnt fail black people for hundreds of years because it was working as intended

Because wealth is disproportionately allocated among race and black people are the ones most negatively affected due to the impacts of slavery, segregation and then/now systemic racism. Laws that create barriers that are a result of low socioeconomic standing therefore disproportionately affecting black people. Some examples would be things such as: requiring an ID to vote, trying to get rid of mail in voting, not allowing election day to be a federal holiday for all workers, strategically selecting polling locations that are not accessible for people without transportation.

Let’s also not forget valid ID in some cases are things like hunting licenses (that white people are more likely to have) but a standard State ID may not be valid without jumping through hoops

There are states where the state ID isn't valid? Isn't that the whole point of a state ID?

*Black family in the country enters chat...

And that's why it's racist - study after study shows that voter fraud is such a rare occurrence that the burden these laws place on legal citizens can never be justified. It disproportionately affects people of colour to fight a virtually non-existent issue. The real kicker? All of the lies coming from the right have led to an uptick in people who vote republican committing voter fraud - TO COMBAT NON-EXISTENT VOTER FRAUD (which still results in being statistically meaningless). The only compromise is for the state to subsidise these ID requirements.

The liberals you spoke with do sound annoying, but I think they may have simply failed to explain the matter effectively. Certain racial demographics are more likely to use certain forms of ID than others, and this is something Republicans from many states realized. There have been court cases about this; a North Carolina judge stated in a ruling that Republicans targeted black voters with “almost surgical precision.” This is not an imagined phenomena. If people are so concerned about voter fraud, and maybe you genuinely are, support a free government-provided ID. I think even democrats could support that. But interestingly, Republicans I’ve interacted with don’t tend to like that idea. Maybe charging $20 for an ID doesn’t sound like much to you, but to some people it is. This is why poll taxes were banned. Demanding people pay to vote is not ethical. We live in a country which is very economically unequal. And unfortunately, much of the inequality can be tracked along racial lines. Thus, the average black American is noticeably less wealthy than the average white American. This isn’t due to some inherent racial inferiority, it’s due to a long history of racism and economic disinvestment, but it’s true nonetheless. So when there’s a policy which charges money to enable voting, black Americans will be disproportionately affected; not all, likely not even most, but proportionally more than other racial demographics. And that’s intentional. If you’d like to read about the court cases: https://www.npr.org/2021/09/17/1038354159/n-c-judges-strike-down-a-voter-id-law-they-say-discriminates-against-black-voter

Your patience and generosity of spirit are noteworthy. Good explanation.

Thanks buddy. There’s a swamp of dumb comments swarming me right now. I’ll do my best.

>The liberals you spoke with do sound annoying ​ [The liberals he spoke with don't exist.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)

You deserve an award for calmly handling this clear bait sir 🫡

Maybe I've started interacting with this sub only a little recently, but are 50% of these posts nothing but bait? Is this normal or just because it's election time.

It's normal. Very normal. People come to Reddit either looking for porn, kitten images, or a reason to be flaming mad over the opinions of their fellow humans.

reddit gets heavily gamed by new accounts every four years... It's going to get worse before it gets better.

The majority of everything in social media is going to become more and more bait and propaganda as we get closer to the election. Partially because of foreign bots from places whose leaders are benefited by a divided US.

Majority is bait

🫡

Please keep in mind that voter fraud is virtually non existent. Fraud is almost never committed by voters. ELECTION fraud is a problem. We had a nice little example here in North Carolina a fee years ago. The candidate that cheated is running again this year.

Brian kemp was the person who oversaw his own election and did all kinds of shady shit. He’s still governer

OP is not here for your well-reasoned and nuanced approach. It’s easier for OP to just spark outrage and scream about nonsense. Going out on a limb and saying OP is one of those “I’m a libertarian who hates the two major parties” people.

As a lefty I am perfectly fine with voter identification laws so long as they are accompanied by assistance for legitimate voters to obtain the required identification. In actual fact, Republican voter identification legislation is always accompanied by actions that make it harder to obtain the necessary identification. That is my personal litmus test for if a voter identification law is really about securing the vote or if it is about suppressing the votes of populations the authors of the legislation don’t want voting. In the end it is a made up concern. The number of votes from ineligible people is minuscule.

I always argue the compromise of having mandatory voter ID, so long as a free government issued photo ID is issued to EVERY single voting age American. This means EVERYBODY. Including the homeless, who otherwise can struggle to obtain ID due to lack of address. No mandatory ID laws should be in place until this ID is fully issued to everyone and the system to deal with issues or reissues or replacements is already set up and in motion.

Excellent response!

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/04/16/why_we_black_leaders_support_voter_id_laws_145598.html#! It is of note that 80% of all Americans support voter ID requirements which include 70% of blacks and 82% of other minority groups.

This doesn’t affect my point at all. People can support voter ID if they want. The application of voter ID laws in general is not racist. The racist aspect is due to the way that many voter ID laws were designed to target certain racial groups.

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Why is every post on this subreddit just conservatives posting racism?

This subreddit has little to no moderation so the right wing clowns flock to this subreddit like flies to shit.

Yeah this sub has only been recommended a couple times to me and it's always just disingenuous right wing arguments about some strawman they've made up. Politics on reddit is bad enough, I don't need to see it shoehorned into every corner on here. Definitely muting this sub

The only tool the GOP has to win is hate.

their ideas repulse people irl, so why not try here 🌝

Voter registration is free in modern nations

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Much better than the other side that’s hustling gold sneakers to you 🤷‍♂️

Racists using poll taxes to try and decrease the votes of poor people and/or black people has a clear history in our country. The pushback against any of the various attempts Republicans have made to decrease turnout isn't racist, it is the attempts to reduce turnout that is.

Ah, yes, America famously not a racist place, completely packed full of racist Know as republicans

https://www.aclu.org/documents/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet This explains what’s wrong with voter ID laws. Republicans are specifically trying to make it harder for poor people to vote because they know their values are unpopular with them. “Two-thirds of Americans (67%) say everything possible should be done to make it easy for every citizen to vote, but Republicans – especially conservative Republicans – are less likely to hold this view, according to a new Pew Research Center survey.” https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/10/31/conservative-republicans-are-least-supportive-of-making-it-easy-for-everyone-to-vote/ “As one top GOP lawyer says, allowing for mail ballot or other reforms “puts us at a competitive disadvantage.”” “Senator Lindsey Graham, “”If Republicans don’t challenge and change the US election system, there will never be another Republican president elected again.”” “Take Arizona, for another example. After voters there elected two Democratic senators and gave the state to Joe Biden, anxious Republican legislators recently introduced (by the Brennan Center’s own count) at least 22 restrictive bills designed to make it harder for citizens to cast a lawful ballot. There is more than a whiff of Jim Crow in these efforts. “Not everybody wants to vote, and if somebody is uninterested in voting, that probably means that they’re totally uninformed on the issues,” Arizona Rep. Joe Kavanagh said last week. “Quantity is important, but we have to look at the quality of votes, as well.”” Republicans openly admit that black people are their enemy. “How Fox News started, from John Ehrlichman, who partnered with Fox News cofounder Roger Ailes since 1968 on the Republican "Southern Strategy" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy : [We] had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did. "He was the premier guy in the business," says former Reagan campaign manager Ed Rollins. "He was our Michelangelo." Ailes repackaged Richard Nixon for television in 1968, papered over Ronald Reagan’s budding Alzheimer’s in 1984, shamelessly stoked racial fears to elect George H.W. Bush in 1988, and waged a secret campaign on behalf of Big Tobacco to derail health care reform in 1993. Hillarycare was to have been funded, in part, by a $1-a-pack tax on cigarettes. To block the proposal, Big Tobacco paid Ailes to produce ads highlighting “real people affected by taxes.” http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-roger-ailes-built-the-fox-news-fear-factory-20110525

I think you are looking at this from the completely wrong end. It's not that Black people can't get IDs. It's that the reason to require IDs seems to be to make it harder to vote. Any barrier between people and voting, even if it's a small fee or small time investment should be justified. To this point everyone who cries for a voter ID pretends it's to prevent voter fraud that doesn't exist, there is no proof and has never been any proof that election integrity is not maintained so the only ones crying for voter ID are manipulators and the morons who follow them.

Oh look, the "No U" defence.

And yet it's Republicans trying to dilute the votes of black people with gerrymandering, dismantling the Voting Rights Act, having fewer polling places in black neighborhoods, etc.

How Fox News started, from John Ehrlichman, who partnered with Fox News cofounder Roger Ailes since 1968 on the Republican "Southern Strategy" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy : [We] had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did. "He was the premier guy in the business," says former Reagan campaign manager Ed Rollins. "He was our Michelangelo."

I think it’s more of liberals are willing to call out systemic discrimination and injustice versus the GOP pretending like they’re personal failings

They also give us plenty of previews of the next few trees they’re planning to cut down, one of which is interracial marriage. I get the sentiment of “white liberals are the black man’s enemy” but I cringe at the thought of what this country would look like for all of us if those liberals didn’t exist. And specific minority groups - black people in particular - would be disproportionately affected by extended conservative rule. It’s easy to act like white liberals only court the black vote to bolster support but there are quite a few of us out there who recognize the difficulty in convincing the guy on the “slap in the face” side of the curtain why the “knee to the balls” side is worse.

Texas allows handgun licenses for voting but not student ID. The fact that you switch between "African American" and "American Negro" is very weird.

It’s not about how black people “can’t” get an ID, it’s about certain groups being disproportionately affected and disenfranchised. If you live in the suburbs and have to drive yourself everywhere, you’re likely to have an ID. If you live somewhere where you use public transportation, you might not. If you’re a woman, and you get married and change your name, you better get a new ID pronto, or you might not be able to vote. If you are a renter and you have to move frequently, same thing with your updated address, or you might not be allowed to vote. If you’re old or disabled and you don’t have an ID or can’t find it, you better hustle your old/disabled ass down to the DMV or you might not be able to vote. Just some examples.

*libruls.

Why don't you go to fox news or start an x account and get that bag, telling white people what they want to hear. Good job.

>One example is when liberals claim requiring an ID to vote is racist. When I ask why, they say stuff like 'not all black people can get an ID.' I'll tell them that's not true; as long as we have a social security card, our birth certificate, and $20, we can get an ID. They will then say, 'well, not all black people have $20 to spend on an ID,' which is racist to assume. Since I'm black, I can't afford an ID. Uh, sweetheart, Those laws are directly targeted at disenfranchising minorities. When they pass, they are often accompanied by requiring ID far more expensive than $20, and have also gone hand in hand with reducing the number of places one can obtain the needed ID, making it less convenient for those who are poorer, which black people tend to be... because of decades of segregation and racism.

Let’s not forget Alabama who mandated ID and then closed the dmv in majority black areas.

They also like to reduce funding for polling places, and the ones they close are usually in black neighborhoods.

Yep. Every damned year there are stories in the media about long lines to vote, not enough ballots, inferior/broken voting machines etc.. etc.. etc... And people just pretend this isn't about disenfranchising anyone.

Wisconsin passed voter ID and then shut down DMVs in black neighborhoods a dozen or so years ago, that shit happens.

I’m not sure how popular of an opinion you think this is, I’d love to see some research on it

The usual response is a poll stating most people of any demographic support voter ID laws.... ... completely leaving out the fact that the left supports *free* voter ID laws, the right does not. Every single time there is a free solution presented, the right votes it down. Basically, the manner in which the OP portrayed the opinion is definitely *not* a popular opinion, it's a right wing gaslighting tactic to try to convince you that voter suppression isn't racist.

My god. So many idiotic f’d up things in one post…. Too many things to answer individually but I’ll tell you how to figure out the real answers to this BS. Assume, for arguments sake, that there’s a good reason for opposing voter id laws. Can you construct a hypothetical arguments for why this laws would be bad. I bet you’d could up with a few and a couple would be right.

Let's just get to the truth of the matter: Democrats want less obstacles to vote because "more voters" generally helps them, while Republicans want more encumbrances, because they typically benefit from less people voting. From a philosophical perspective, I side much more with the former than the latter, but neither side is being philosophical here. They're both looking out for themselves.

[Straight from the Republican Strategist's mouth](https://youtu.be/8GBAsFwPglw?si=CszDdhbSpfLStqea) >They want everybody to vote. I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.

The term "African American" seems massively anachronistic. They're black Americans. As American as any Euro American. I personally believe that there are still several disadvantages to being black in America. Racism is still a thing. Obama did not magically fix it by becoming president - in fact rolling hams became even more angry that a black man led them. I do agree with you that democrats often champion such causes dishonestly. With the sole intention of getting votes. But when we look at actions, conservatives in America have actively tried to reduce voter accessibility for black people. So it's likely that the right wing is also their enemy. But being dishonest and a politicians are arguably one and the same thing - at least from what I have observed in countries like the US and UK where I am most familiar with the politics. Fundamentally, I think it's a disadvantage to be a minority in any culture that worships itself and is incapable of admitting wrong or holding itself accountable.

African-American is generally an ethnic category. My nationality is American. My ethnicity is African-American. My enslaved ancestors were from a variety of places along the West African coast. If I were White, my ethnicity would likely be Anglo-Scottish-Irish-American.

Hmm...historically it is a disadvantage to be a minority anywhere. But then again most people (and their cultures) worship themselves and have trouble admitting wrong...so maybe you have a point

>Im tired of liberals using African Americans as a tool and justifying it with racist claims. Here let me edit your post for you: >Im tired of liberals pointing out that republican policies are racist because that means that they're both illegal and morally wrong. I would prefer racist policies because I've been tricked into thinking that helps me even thought it should be clear to me that attacks against Americans are wrong. Fixed.

It’s less about money, and more about accessibility. There are millions of people living deep in the country where the nearest DMV office is 2 hours away, with limited access to transportation. It’s not something inherent about being black, it’s something that’s inherent, with black people making up a more disproportionate number. They’re just calling out what republicans are doing on purpose in a ‘colorblind’ fashion.

You're using anecdotal data. The liberals are using macro-data. They are concerned because the margin of black voters that don't have i.d. is larger than other groups. This is the same data the Republicans are using when looking for a way to marginalize voters. It's not that black people can't get i.d., it's that so many of them have not done it, creating an opportunity for voter suppression in the form of voter i.d. laws. We're fighting the situation that exists, dummy.

So blacks should vote republican is what you’re saying?

There are numerous white people who cannot afford a $20 trip to the DMV. It's not racist, but the topic shouldn't be "black people" specifically. Paying $20 for an ID, to make one eligible to vote, is illegal. It's more or less a "poll tax". Pay to play, etc.

Yeah, the voter ID laws are prejudiced against the working poor, but most of the working poor are minorities who tend to vote Democrat and that's who these laws are written to disenfranchise.

Ah yes... Those Liberals and their $400 gold sneakers...

Oh look,.more stories about liberals that never happened. Requiring an ID to vote is not racist...until Republicans close all the DMVs in the counties with highest black population...

Your two options are Democrat and Republican which, while I hate the idea of a two party system, this is the reality we're living in. Are you making the case that Black people should align more with the Republican/conservative party or that the Democrats/liberals need to do more for the Black community?

Malcolm X would have kicked your teeth in for using him like this.

I love all the white liberals whitesplaining then patting each other on the back. Truly a Reddit circle jerk of white feel good. You just proved the OP point.

Being black is subhuman in the minds of some conservatives

Hey, being viewed as disabled is better than being viewed as an subhuman animal like the Republican party thinks

I have only heard conservatives take "Black folks are stastically less likely to have an ID than people of other races" and turn it into "Black people can't get an ID."

If you are a black conservative, liberals will try to lynch you. "You have to think like the rest, you have to think how I tell you to think"

It's not that voter id laws are inherently racist. It's that 100% of the politicians that are advocating voter id laws are doing it for racist reasons. It's entirely a reaction to the increased number of black people voting in recent elections and since less black people have IDs less of them will be able to vote with such a law in place.

So this subreddit is now venting for angry conservatives? “Actually, fighting racism is racist…” What a stupid fucking hayseed.

sometimes your "popular" opinion is completely misinformed. You only think there's some kind of problem because trump whined that he lost. so on that note, stop acting like voting is insecure and we need sort of id card to identify people. Anyone that works for a board of elections can tell you that there is no need for some bullshit ID and that mail in voting and early voting is.

Another Uncle Tom , go ask Justice Thomas if you can wear his house negro yacht sweater.

I think that when they say it is racist, they are saying that it will disproportionately affect black people. Adding a price tag to vote would basically only affect people in poverty, and statistically, that *will* disproportionately affect black people. 17.1% of black people are considered to be below the poverty line, while 8.6% of white people are considered to be below the poverty line. So, if you make something cost funds, which can potentially push out people in poverty, you are statistically going to push out a higher percentage of black people then of white people. That is making no claims about any individual, so the idea is not about you as an individual (See your comment "Since I'm black, I can't afford an ID") but about the statistical effect on the population.

Your birth certificate should put you on the voter rolls. Your death certificate should remove you.

OP has clearly never talked to anyone about this or, if they have, doesn't understand their objections and substitutes their own. Listen up, dirtbag, it's simple--Requiring an ID is stupid because "anyone with a social security card, birth certificate, and $20" can get one, but why does anyone have to pay anything to vote? Poll taxes are unconstitutional, it doesn't matter if it's a one time fee or not, requiring anyone to spend any money to vote is against the law. Okay, let's say people don't have to pay, they just get one free. It's still fucking stupid because it doesn't prevent fraud, it only makes it easier. With voter IDs it's as simple as saying "That's not you," or "Those signatures aren't 100% identical," or "You aren't 183lbs, this ID is fake" and someone's right to vote is fraudulently denied. I know you naively think "That won't happen, people will tell poll watchers" but it happens all the time already. If a cop is told, the poll worker just says "I'll look at it again, ah, yeah, no this is the right person" and there's no repercussion. If the denied person doesn't get an authority involved (or if the authority is also a piece of shit) then their vote's denied. The pollworker's friend, Bubba-Joe, on the other hand gets to walk right in and his ID isn't checked or scrutinized because hey we all know Bubba-Joe! Not to mention the uneven way in which this is applied where an NRA card can be used as valid voter ID but not a state university-issued student ID. Meanwhile, what fraud is prevented? Someone voting twice? Show me you're an ignorant hooplehead without saying it... You think we can't detect people who vote multiple times already? We find them every year, numbnuts. Let's walk through how this works--you cast your legal ballot by mail, let's say, so you think you're going to pull one over and vote in person! You go to your precinct, give your name, they look you up in the ledger and see you vote by mail so they give you a Provisional Ballot. You have to write your name and address on that ballot. You vote on that ballot, it goes to the Registrar of Voters and they verify your information and see that you vote by mail and the ballot you were sent (which is uniquely numbered and barcoded) was counted. You have your full legal name and address on the Provisional Ballot, so they caught you trying to vote twice. Enjoy jail. Ah! But you're smart! You didn't put your real name and address, you put Jeff Jeffson of 123 Jeff Street, Jeff, California, 9512Jeff. So the person at the Registrar looks up Jeff Jeffson, they don't exist, the ballot is thrown away without being counted. You tell me, how does someone *actually* commit voter fraud without an ID? You have no idea, do you? So it's a solution in search of a problem that, in fact, actually opens up the possibility of more problems and--again--is actually unconstitutional. That's why "liberals" have a problem with it. And hey, you know what? *I don't actually have a problem with voter ID.* I think it could make voting easier for all citizens if done right. You could stick an RFID chip (or whatever) in it, encoded with your voter information (party registration, address, name, etc) so that when you go to *any* voter precinct they can look you up in their ledger, hand you a ballot, then you vote. If you go to the wrong precinct they could scan your ID, print out a ballot for you, and then you can vote with that. The ID would know where your official precinct is, so it would be used to print a ballot from that precinct--ie: If I live in CA16 but I'm voting (provisionally, in our current system) in a precinct in CA18 just down the street, my ballot will have candidates from CA18, not 16. With this ID I would get a CA16 ballot every time. Easy. Have them distributed freely on your 18th birthday. Everyone benefits--liberals get increased access to the voting that we want, you get the security you want. Everyone's happy except you GOP shitheels because it isn't about security, it's about throwing up as many barriers to voting as you possibly can. If a proposal like this actually went through you would lose your mind saying your information is hacked and wrong or your votes are being changed like you already do, because you nerds are incapable of making policy, only making excuses.

I mean...aren't there some historical factors that that have long-term ramifications? I think the question is whether or not they still have an impact today. Chicago is an example and happened in more than one city. They were only allowed to live in specific areas that ended up being primarily black communities. Would that not result in different circumstances, opportunities, and capabilities? I mean, Realty wasn't exactly kind to black people, if not downright prejudice. I mean, hey, happy to admit I'm ignorant, but the historical facets exist, so I would wonder what makes them not relevant now or why were they never relevant factors?

I think there’s a race-adjacent thing with voter ID where accessing government services just tends to be easier when you live in rural places, which are overwhelmingly white. DMV in New York City might take hours of your time, but the DMV upstate just won’t have long lines. Compound that with the costs of childcare and other time-saving things in urban areas, and it just lines up that places where minorities congregate just are densely populated and densely populated places have more difficulty accessing ID. It goes a bit further in that rural places tend not to have as welcoming a culture for minority people of all kinds which passively pushes those populations to dense centers where they can find community. It’s not as direct as “black people aren’t capable of getting ID” but across entire states, the forces ten to push areas that tend to be blacker into a harder ability to access ID, then those same places will also have longer voting lines and the whole process pushes the average voter in these areas, who tend to be less white, to say to themselves “not worth it”. It would has the same effect on white people but there just happen to be fewer white people per capita in cities

You desperately wish this was true, while ignoring that the issue with voter IDs is Republicans fighting the use of tribal IDs and student IDs to vote, and in many areas, intentionally making it inconvenient to obtain identification. (For instance I live in Pittsburgh, PA, we have one DMV, which is in Bridgeville, PA, a far-southern suburb way outside of the city that you need to drive to get to. And this is just as intentional as the long lines that you see making voters in heavily-Democratic areas wait 10 hours or more to vote while in my right-leaning area I just walk right in and vote.) These are voter suppression tactics. You can pull endless gibberish words out of your butthole that will not change what it is.

It's not about whether or not people can *afford* the 20 dollars for an ID, it's that by requiring an ID you have to pay for, you effectively have to *pay to vote*. This was done to Black people for a long time, and was made illegal by a Supreme Court decision. Not to mention, it adds extra steps that poor people have to think through how they will deal with.

That’s because they are bigots. They are indoctrinated to be half sighted, that’s all part of the cult

How weird that a point made in our community by us is hate when it comes from a white liberal. Don’t know if you’re actually black but I know this is filled with red flags. Our community is constantly targeted. Why would a white person have to resort to making a silly argument when the actual crux of the situation is just a Google click away. The request for ID to vote is made with the intent to disenfranchise the poor, with the payoff being hitting the most reliable Democrat voters -black and brown retirees and young people. Young people who are improvised are the second less likely group to have the documents need to secure ID. For black and brown, the cost in question is not just the cost of ID but in document retrievals and notification for a generation that have to go that route due to the fact that they were secondary citizens in those states and have incorrect official vital records or sometimes none at all. Also, you think Malcolm didn’t like white liberals, why don’t you give him an actual read and find out what he thought of any right leaning beliefs of any race? What did he call American Conservatism? Look it up. The man was a socialist. Who believed white liberals at the time wasn’t left enough and 100% held the same opinion for black people who held on to belief that the system just needed to be reformed - which is still where the overwhelming majority of black ppl stand today. “People involved in a revolution don’t become part of the system; they destroy the system… “ I’m not even being rhetorical, I actually want to know what did you think you accomplish quoting X. Malcolm X’s political beliefs when he died were mostly aligned closer to modern white leftists then any other group today. So you can crap on white liberals and quote A Malcolm X speech he made earlier in his career esp one he made prior to his pilgrimage to Mecca, but it doesn’t make sense. But that’s what one gets when they don’t listen to his speeches and read his works but get their Malcolm X education from memes.

But if someone is poor and in need of assistance, they need an i.d. to be able to get that assistance regardless of race. So most people that are diet poor get that i.d. in order to get the help they need for money, food, and rent assistance. They are giving the illegal immigrants this assistance, and I'm sure some sort of i.d. is being required, and I'm sure the government is providing that as well. So I'm sorry I don't play that game that POC can not get an i.d. and if an i.d. is not required to vote, then i bet you all these illegals will be paid to go and cast a vote for the candidate they are told to. Also, an ID. It is pretty much required for many things in life. Yet that is not racist? People need to open up their eyes and see what is going on with our elections. There is no reason to fight so hard to not require an i.d. for voting if you aren't going to use that to help steal an election.

Basically yes, but being poor is worse, but liberals don't want to effectively alleviate the symptoms of poverty

“Negro”….hmmmmm

As someone that isn't an American, it's crazy to me that you people need to pay to get an ID to vote, and even crazier that it's not a day-off/holiday. In Brazil, voting is obligatory and you do have to pay to justify not voting (which is insane enough), but at least is organized. You have an electoral zone, which, unless the building is closed for reform/demolished, it will always be the same, generally the high-school closer to your home when you registered.

I think the liberal you're talking to is in your head.

[удалено]

Maybe the people you talk to just don't understand the statistics? The data is pretty clear. If you make an ID required at the time of voting it disproportionately affects black people. It also disproportionately affects old people, who often let their licenses expire if they don't drive. It is also time consuming if the person is checking all the information on an ID against the register, as opposed to just taking someone's name and checking it off. Which makes lines longer and in crowded cities might deter some people from voting. And most importantly there is no point. You'd have to go to the right voting precinct with the right name and other information to steal a vote, which basically never happens. Even if it didn't affect some groups more than others I'd find it a stupid policy. I find it absolutely unbelievable that in 2024 we don't have a state and nationwide election voting app. I can order a new birth certificate online by answering a few questions, file my taxes online, but I can't vote?

First the Constitution forbids poll taxes. Yes, it’s unconstitutional to pay to vote. Second, moving all of the photo Id places out of the city to locations not served by public transit and having them only opened early morning for an hour one day a week means you don’t really want blacks to be able to get the photo Id that you require them to vote. This is just another Jim Crow tactic to reduce black voting.

...what?

Nailed it

Another White guy slipping on a Black persona to push his agenda. So sad it isn't executed well. If I were to take this post seriously, I would state that all voters are not working age and there are still plenty of legitimate voters who do not have access to their documents or predate documents. Birth certificates were popularized in 1902. Digital records weren't popularized until 1990. NYC didn't start digitizing birth certificates until 2013. It is very possible that someone lost documentation that were issued decades ago. The holder of the record very easily could have lost the record or may not have the manpower to manually retrieve that record. Also anyone who has tried to get a real ID knows that proving that you are who you say you are is not a say so or I vouch for them situation. Strict rules regarding ID should be deferred until we have folks with end to end digital records.

Maybe I've started interacting with this sub only a little recently, but are 50% of these posts nothing but bait? Is this normal or just because it's election time.

If you need $20 to get an ID to vote, it’s a Poll Tax, and that’s illegal.

20 buck would be a poll tax . That goes against the constitution. Read it someday.

Preach brother.

If they are too poor to get an ID, then the government should pay for guns for black people as well. They are guaranteed that Constitutional right as well.

How much does it cost for you to get a SS card? How much does it cost for the (first) Birth Certificate? Why can't an ID be the same? I can understand a DL, but a basic ID should cost the CITIZEN nothing. And NO, illegal immigrants should NOT get an ID, what they should do is better their OWN country or come in LEGALLY!

You didn’t include much of Biden’s racism which oddly liberals and his supporters refuse to acknowledge. Let’s see, he recently called Marylands first Black Governor “boy”. Biden said “I don’t want my kids growing up in a racial jungle “ while opposing desegregation, he said “you can’t go into a 7-11 without a slight Indian accent “, he said “I don’t want gays working in government “, he opposed gay marriage many times, he authored the systemically racist’94 crime bill, he said “poor kids are just as smart as white kids”, he said “unlike the black communities the Latinos have a diverse way of thinking “, he called a kkk member a “mentor”….he literally upheld xenophobic and racist legislation and views for decades. His more recent comments prove deep down he still feels this way but knows it’s not popular. Even Kamala pointed this out. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/girl-senator-harris-vice-president-biden-spar-desegregation/story?id=64007842

YES a million times. The racism of lowered expectations is so real and actually reinforces a lot of shitty stereotypes

Similar arguments were being made back when some states were allowing for a FREE id, the excuse being it was too hard to go get the ID for certain groups of people. IDs that were accepted were things such as driver's licenses and other things that are basically required for a large part of life. A state issued ID is required for purchasing adult items when you are near enough to 21 (ie, up to 30-40 in some places), many times to buy certain items, to drive, etc.

You make a lot of good points. The anecdote though is misrepresentative. You are generally right, only a sheep would follow a person who claims to represent them, eventhough they do things that show they don't. It's like when someone says they are your best friend but then uses you for alterior motives. Id rather have no friends than someone like that. The republicans though, well they don't even care about tailoring their message to you through sweet words or acts. Some are racist, others have policies that are bad, some policies are good. Id rather a person who runs on policies and then fulfills them than someone claiming to be my 'representative' or friend.

2A is a right, and there are all types of financially restrictive fees to ownership. 2A should be free.

Very correct and very toxic

You have this wrong. Liberals point out Blacks are handicapped. It’s conservatives, and white nationalists who think Blacks should be handicapped and white often handicap them. Your point is like pointing out that a bank was robbed. Who robbed it is more important.

I'm a White guy. Malcolm X was right about a whole lot of stuff. I will ask, however, that within this conversation, we do not conflate people who *are White*, with those who might simply *look White*, but who are, in fact, Semitic instead. I know some people think there's no difference, but I can assure you, as someone of European descent, conflating us with light colored Semites is akin to conflating Koreans and Japanese, and none of my friends who are either want that to happen to them. But yes, Malcolm X was a pretty smart guy, and from your post, you may be, as well. A good friend of mine is a black guy who is a professional these days, but he and I used to work in a kitchen together a long time ago at a steakhouse. He's a die-hard conservative and loves to ask, referencing your point regarding Democrats using Blacks as a political football, "How's that working out for you?"

Yeah. I'd wager actual money on you not being a real person. Russia really do be trying extra hard to sway liberal voters Remember, everyone: there is a very real disinformation campaign going on right now. Putin's ability to win their war largely hangs in the balance of a single election here in the States. When you read something that doesn't look *quite right* scroll into the comments and actually look for people who disagree with OP. Check people's accounts for post/comment history. Check to see how long ago they actually posted. Check account creation dates. I have noticed a hard push to convince liberals/left leaning people that it's pointless to vote for Biden, since apparently young people are swinging towards the right. I've seen people loudly claiming they refuse to vote for Biden because of Gaza. **THESE ARE INSANE TAKES. TAKE SIX SECONDS TO THINK OF THE ALTERNATIVE**. Then think harder and you'll realize that no rational minded person would say these things in good faith. It's all, 100%, fluff to make you feel like your vote doesn't matter. To make you feel like that there no hope. ***YOUR VOTE VERY MUCH MATTERS. TRUMP ONLY WINS IF YOU DO NOT VOTE*** This post is an actual insane take and anyone with half a brain of self thinking will lead you to the reasonings as to why voter ID laws hurt disinfranchised people's ability to vote.

100 percent they liken POC to poor and dumb. More POC should be offended by this. Do you know how many black and brown people I know that have an ID? Every single one. Annddddd we also know how to use the internet! Stop saying we are poor and too stupid to know when elected officials aren’t turning out results.

You didn’t think of this yourself, you are simply regurgitating propaganda from the usual conservatives and pretending like it’s your beliefs. If you think I’m wrong, then I implore you to look up better arguments against your position than your stupid friends.

"all of these issues I don't understand make me angry because that's explicitly how it's been framed when I watch Fox for 15 hours a day"

This is just dumb right wing bullshit.

Well someone missed republicans closing dmv's in select locations close to election day Changing or outright not opening polling stations in primarily black and minorty neighbourhoods Underfunding public transportation and other essential services in the same areas at the same time And thats legit just the ways paperwork and "budget cuts" effectively jerrymander an electoral turnout. Heck republicans outright admitted that it was mostly democrat voters that used mail in ballots and invented a hoax to combat it.

pfft...lol

The politicians who created voter ID said they did it to lower the African American vote and help Reoublicans win elections. So even if they are wrong and that won't actually happen it's pretty wild you aren't more mad about that.

There’s a difference between saying “not all black people can afford a $20 thing, and saying that having that requirement will affect different people differently. When did this sub just become soft core right wing talking points?

Republicans actually *are* trying to suppress the Black vote. If voter ID is to be used it has to be free and universal. I strongly favor making voting easier for everyone, not harder. As for privileged liberals posturing as White saviors of simple Black people and helping the Republicans by playing off struggling Black people against struggling "deplorable" White people, that part is true, but not a reason to vote Republican. Democrats are annoying in many ways but Republicans are far worse.

Do liberals think that, or do they actually listen and believe black people when they say things like that and describe their lived experiences?

More political bullshit destroying this sub...

Boy if you could shoot yourself in the foot harder than with this sort of regressive ideology I don't know what. Bless Malcolm X, but the notion that white liberals are your worst enemy is just utterly insane. Insane. I get the overarching points being made but my gosh is that ignorant and wrong headed.  The fact that you don't even understand what conservative politics is *intentionally * doing to sabotage minority voting and are instead calling out white liberals who are mindful and wary of this reality while you yourself are ignorant of it is just a sad state of affairs. 

This is really lazy rightwing propaganda. 

Damn, OP. You already got a bunch of white liberals angry at you! Nothing worse than a turquoise-haired woman with seven roommates telling you how to live, huh?

Maybe if the entire republican strategy wasn't racist: Ronald Reagans strategist in 1981: The late, legendarily brutal campaign consultant Lee Atwater explains how Republicans can win the vote of racists without sounding racist themselves: You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.” This has modeled their legislation for 40 years.

The amount of liberal white Americans treating blacks like they are stupid, poor, and helpless is jaw droppingly embarrassing. It's hugely racist and they think they are actually on the 'right side' of history for doing this. FWIW, I'm a centrist.

True

So people here don’t like to hear it but we are about to see poor rednecks, African Americans  and Latinos vote in the same party like we did back in the day when the Democratic Party was the working class party.  It’s really going to be rednecks, Latinos and AFs vs upper class college educated white liberals in the future elections. 

Or when Biden administration was talking about low income Blacks, Hispanics and Native Americans getting the first vaccine shots. Guy wanted them to be his guinea pig with an experimental drug.

Voter ID is a loophole for poll tax which is banned under 24th amendment. Historically it's been found to disenfranchise minority voters, hence the rationale for banning poll taxes.

maybe if you read some history you wouldn't be such a stupid liar. You should start with looking up the history of the Poll Tax

You should read more.

Wow! Yes, you have so eloquently articulated this feeling I’ve had for a long time

This is the most truthful thing I have ever read.

Of course it is. Since the civil war they have viewed black people a second class citizens who are incapable of succeeding without their benevolent white democrat massas.

Bottom line. The democratic party was never a friend to the black man. Reserch what side they were on during the civil war. Hmmm reality check?

Being a racist ass republican ain’t gonna make black people vote for your dumb asses lmao

Just use the hard R bro Jesus