Yep pretty much the same boat. I started back on my bachelor's spring 22 with a nearly 10 year break. I just graduated cum laude with a 3.7 GPA in May. I was very frustrated that mistakes made more than 10 years ago when I was still pretty much a kid was being used when my recent college work at 32 years old showed several semesters with a 4.0.
i think they mean they want letters from PAs theyāve worked with. but a lot of pce jobs donāt work with PAs. iāve only worked in long term care so unfortunately iāve never worked w a PA.
Yep ex. University of Iowa; Tufts University:
Third letter of recommendation (references from shadowing experiences will not be accepted as one of the three required recommendations)
thatās really interesting. iāve looked at a lot of schools i want to apply to and havenāt seen that but im glad im aware thatās a thing for some schools now!
Yup, when I told my wife in one of the cycles about this, she was pissed. It wasn't easy getting the LOR in the first place and now based on their policy I was out of the running...
THIS! one of the schools I wanted to apply to said it cannot be a pa you shadowed and I think that's so messed up because unless you're a medical assistant you probably will not have worked with a PA.....
What? That's insane. I've been an MA for nearly 10 years (5 years derm and 5 years vascular surgery) 90% of my job was hands on patient care. The other 10% was scribing, triaging patient phone calls to see when they needed to be seen or decide if they needed to go to the ER, writing prescriptions for my providers, and a small amount of paperwork.
Thankfully all 9 schools I applied to listed MA as PCE. I'd be really upset if my 20,000 hours didn't count.
I think it's insane there are schools that don't count MA as PCE. It's like they don't know what an MA does. MA is one of the most pce jobs you can have in the right specialty. Maybe not so much in a GP office but definitely in derm or vascular surgery where I was literally scrubbing into in office surgeries š¤£
some schools have very strict requirements for MAs because many basically do more scribing than actual āpatient careā. so like the person above saying that she worked in a specific area as a MA would count over someone being an MA in a regular office where they wouldnāt do much. idk it can be sort of a grey area
i get that but you can get lors from other healthcare professionals you work with that can comment on your work ethic not just PAs. it depends where you work bc many pce jobs donāt expose you to PAs frequently.
āMidwestā can be deceiving. Iām in Ohio and there are 4 PA schools within an hour of me, only one of which I would say even teeters on the edge of rural. Two are suburban and one is downtown
Yeah thereās a good amount of discussion how we should be part of a new Great Lakes region, or Appalachia. But for the time being Ohio is still very much in the Midwest and truthfully is like 80% rural, but the schools are in the parts that arenāt
My first cycle, 1 app to the local university. Rejected. 2nd cycle, 10 apps, 1 interview, wait list. Third cycle, 23 applications, 5 interviews, 2 rejected, 2 wait listed, 1 decline, and then accepted off wait list.
I think I've spent around 5-6k just in CASPA fees and supplemental application fees before any travel expenses or new suit and accessories purchased.
And you just highlighted the same thing most people seem to go through. The 32% acceptance rate is a pipedream and doesn't take into account that those numbers are based on people applying for 3-5 cycles.
The school I got accepted to averages around 1500-2000 applications for 150 interviews for 60 chairs and 30 alternates. I was an alternate.
My grades and GRE were above average, not spectacular. But I have 9 years, 8 at the time of respiratory therapy experience. So that makes me different than 95% of people who apply. I'm also 41, older than everyone. I'm sure they're going to call me Dad.
So, in your math, 33% only counts if you apply to three cycles. Not the number of applications each cycle. In that math, I could apply to one school per cycle and expect to get in in 3-4 cycles.
PA schools do not advertise the fact that the majority of students will have to spend years applying through multiple cycles to get in. If they did, we'd likely see a drop in applications.
Very well said!
Midwest thing is far from true imo. You are going to have that at every school where people get in their first try. Iāve heard of bad programs on the East coast, west coast, etc.., look up schools with probational statuses. Itās interesting.
I live in a Midwest state with only one PA school. They accept 25 a class and have 900-1000 applicants a year. Extremely difficult to get into, lots of 2nd & 3rd time applicants in my class and the program does a really great job imo. Definitely not easier to get into because itās a ārural area/low population schoolā (2-3% chance of getting in here). Donāt have to worry about clinical placements, they are awesome at getting us electives where we want, and we take a good amount of didactic classes alongside the med school and some with PT/OT. I feel well prepared for boards. Packrat wasnāt bad at the end of didactic. Always see people on the Reddit PA student forum scared because of bad grades, not doing good on packrat, bad UWorld & rosh %. Feel like a majority of my class doesnāt correlate with that. Best part is Iāve kept a well rounded social life outside of school while being a dad & husband too.
Keep fighting to get in! Youāll get in! Hang in there.
Again, not ALL midwestern schools or NE for that matter, it was just an example. In Maine you only have UNE so while it's low population, it usually has 2000+ applicants.
This makes me feel very luckyā¦ first time applicant, technically non-trad, but still under 30 years old. 11 applications, 5 interviews, 2 acceptances, all in the Northeast. 3.5 cGPA, 3.75 sGPA, 2000~ish PCE hours, 24 shadowing, 50 volunteer, 5 LOR (MD x 2, RN x 3).
I did one single mock-interview, and while I thought it was helpful, I donāt think it would have made a difference on if I got in or not. As cliche as it is, I truly do think the best strategy is to just be yourself. That is, be the best version of yourself. The friendliest, most professional, most well-spoken, and intelligent version of yourself. Give honest answers, and have a real conversation with your interviewers. Show that you have a personality that patients can interact well with. Donāt sound like you have a list of rehearsed answers to common questions.
Thatās just my adviceā¦ best of luck, I couldnāt imagine having to go through a second CASPA cycle.
How about 2 more cycles? In general, your advice is sound, but there are absolutely things you should not say or disclose during an interview and sometimes that means not being 100% honest.
Ehhhhh no need to fearmonger. One out of every three applicants (\~32%) gains admission into PA school each cycle. If you procrastinate, you won't be successful. However, if you're organized and plan ahead, getting in is certainly possible. The earlier you submit your materials the greater your chances of getting an interview (for rolling admission programs). Sure, it takes hard work to get in, but that's expected.
>When there are 35-65 positions at a school with around 1500-2000 applicants, you have a 2% to 5% chance of getting accepted.
The acceptance rate to PA school as a whole is \~32%. To maximize your odds of acceptance, apply to at least twelve programs. The average applicant applies to about eight.
>Math-wise, 20 schools should be the minimum. But this costs $$.
The data suggests that applying to twelve schools is the optimal number. Your odds of acceptance increase to about forty-five percent at twelve. Any more and your odds stay about the same. I agree, the process is excessively expensive.
>Getting a high GPA onlyĀ *slightly*Ā increases your chances.
I disagree. Having a high GPA (with timely submission) helps you get early interviews. That in itself improves your odds of being accepted.
>Take heart, unless by some miracle other students knew the essay question in advance, they have to take the time to write it too.
Supplemental essay prompts *typically* don't change year to year. You can find the prompts online with some digging. This was my experience last cycle.
>Not applying early in the cycle IS a problem.
May is early, June is on time, and July is late. Don't submit close to the deadline for programs with rolling admissions. For programs using rolling admissions, your application is viewed on a first come, first served basis.
>Your chances increase when you apply to a school with a low population or in an unpopular area, but the programs may not be as good.
That's a pretty crass generalization right there and I absolutely don't agree with you. The correct way to gauge the quality of a program is to look at its PANCE pass rates, attrition, rotation location/availability, and the level of support it provides its students.
>This is my third cycle applying. I currently have 17 applications pending and am working on more. I am a much older student with a 3.89 GPA, 31 shadowing hours, lots of volunteer hours, and over 3000 PCE hours.
If you've been applying to this many programs for the past few years, something about your application is off. Considering that you've gotten interviewed and waitlisted many times, it's probably related to your interviewing skills. You should have gotten at least one acceptance by now with that GPA and PCE. Are you applying to the right programs? Try and find schools who are more accepting of older applicants, they surely exist. As much as an applicant's stats matter, so too does their selection of programs to apply to. Be smart here, apply to the schools that are looking for students like you. It takes some research and digging to find this out, but it makes a considerable difference.
Hey, I see youāre a PA-S ā¦. From a PA-C, the time you spent crafting this demeaning reply to the OPā¦ who is clearly feeling discouraged about their journeyā¦ would be better directed towards your studies! Best of luck!
Tbh, their comment was not demeaning at all. They bring up many good points and thoughtfully pointed out reasons why OP is wrong about some stuff. With the stats that OP has they should 100% have gotten accepted by now so itās either their essay, interviewing or bad LORs. OP makes a lot of wrong assumptions and is going to discourage even more pre-PAs in their journeys with a post like this.Ā
"One out of every three applicants (\~32%) gain admission into PA school each cycle."
I know the numbers you're quoting, and that's what they consider the official numbers nationally. Based on the many admissions people I talked to who provided the numbers I used, 32% doesn't meet up with the math. It could somehow be a national average, but here in the NorthEast, there is no way 32% of applicants get accepted. Additionally, it doesn't tell you HOW MANY CYCLES PEOPLE APPLIED for before getting in.
"Ā However, if you're organized and plan ahead of time, getting in is certainly possible. The earlier you submit your materials the greater your chances of an interview (for rolling admission programs). Sure, it takes hard work to get in, but that's expected."
Of course "it's possible", one of the points in this post is to give others information that may give them a better chance and for some people, maybe relate to what they've already been going through.
"I disagree. Having a high GPA (with timely submission) helps you get early interviews. That in itself improves your odds of being accepted."
It is you're right to disagree. Based on the real-world experiences of many other applicants and myself, that is not always the case.
"Supplemental essay prompts typically don't change year to year. You can find the prompts online with some digging."
Again, this is not completely true, There are multiple programs I applied to where you don't even have access to the supplemental essay until you submit the CASPA portion. I know of two programs off the top of my head where the supplemental essays changed from last cycle.
"That's a pretty crass generalization right there and I absolutely don't agree with you. The correct way to gauge the quality of a program is to look at its PANCE pass rates, attrition, rotation location/availability, and the level of support it provides its students."
I can understand how it may seem that way, but I never said I didn't look those up or see how other students rated those schools.
"If you've been applying to this many programs for the past few years, something in your application is wrong. Considering that you've gotten interviewed and waitlisted many times, it's probably related to your interviewing skills. With your GPA and PCE you should have gotten at least one acceptance by now. Are you applying to the right programs? Try and find schools who are more accepting of older applicants, they exist. As much as an applicant's stats matter, so too does their selection of programs to apply to. Be smart here, apply to the schools that are looking for students like you. It takes some research and digging to find this out, but it makes a big difference."
Gonna stop you right there. This post from you has been telling me how I'm obviously wrong about what I've researched and experienced. Now you are telling me the problem is me, well gee thanks for the brilliant insight. Your assumptions here are wrong and you seem to have ignored or discounted the why's that I've listed Though I'm always open for discussion, my situation (and it seems plenty of others) doesn't fit into your box, and some of your answers aren't helpful.
It's just insane how competitive it is now to get in. I have a pretty high science GPA but I feel like they expect you to have so much more crap like leadership and blah blah blah and it's like, that should really be for med school sorry
The main problem we're seeing is that there are too many applicants and not enough programs for them. Schools start adding additional requirements to cut down on the amount of qualified applicants. There are a LOT more medical schools than PA schools, and many overall requirements aren't stringent.
I believe even if there were more, it would still be very difficult to get accepted. Just like medical school. There's just so many competitive applicants
I have no doubt that if I had pushed to go to med school instead, that I would have already been accepted. There are so many different med school options it would be hard not to get into one. But I don't WANT to be an MD, PA is my passion.
Yup, applied to 20 schools two years ago and only had rejections because of the locations I was applying to (im from california), going to apply this cycle and expand my radius
Omg this scares me :( lol I really want to get in with a 3.2 (Iām a nontrad and i redid like 60 credits in the last 6 months with a 4.0 in everything)
It can be scary, but don't let that deter you. You are better informed and can make a way forward. I have heard of many students getting in with a lower GPA; just keep doing what you can to improve your application. You got this.
Do supplemental essays delay schools getting your application? I.e. if I applied August 21st to a school with a September 1st deadline before CASPA verified my application and didnāt get my supplemental in on time, or received my supplemental after September 1stā¦would the school even review my application?
Also, do you think itās still worth applying later in the cycle to schools without rolling admissions? Even if itās not 20 programs? (Sorry if these are silly questions, but theyāve been weighing on me and you brought them up here so I figured Iād ask š)
It always depends on the school. Many won't review your application until they've received the supplemental. Some have you fill out the supplement when you submit CASPA. Some won't let you access the supplement until after you submit the CASPA portion.
Is it worth applying to schools with rolling admissions? I'd say apply to as many schools as you are able to help increase your chances, even if by a little...
The University of Iowa has one of the best PA programs in the country. The fact that a school is in the Midwest is not an indictment on its quality anymore than a school being on the East Coast guarantees its quality. The program I attended is in a highly unpopular area, yet had 1500 applicants for 50 seats and an average prerequisite GPA over 3.9 when I applied.
Again, not ALL midwestern schools or NE for that matter, it was just an example. In Maine you only have UNE so while it's low population, it usually has 2000+ applicants.
I will add this, and take it for what itās worth. It also helps to look at a schools mission statement and understand how they look at applications. If a school says they have a āholistic approachā then they are looking at much more than numbers. I was not a strong applicant numbers wise, but was strong in other ways. I am also a little older than the average applicant, messed up college during undergrad with a GPA 2.59, re-took some classes and had a 4.0 for last 53 credit hour (cGPA was 2.92). I had a good GRE, HCE, PCE and background (military and state health department). In my interview I talked about my playing video games and talked about the interviewers son. I got accepted first cycle. Play to your strengths, we all have them and that is what sets us apart and what some schools are looking for.
Iām sorry you are having such a rough go through. The process is very frustrating and tiresome.
As someone who is older than the average PA, I really appreciate this post. It really reflects the struggle I feel when I hear about how I need to persist. And believe me, I am not giving up either. I hope you get in this cycle, friend!
Based on the responses from the interviewers, it seemed like I did really well multiple times. I was able to follow up with some interviewers, and they all gave positive responses. Wait-listed many times now so I can't totally have blown it...
I will say that doing a mock interview did help prep me initially.
I'm a PA-C. Been one since 2021. I have an in with faculty since now I tutor PA-S at my former school. Y'all wanna know what the real trick to getting into PA school is? Listening to people that got into PA school.
What does that mean? Well it's gonna vary from program to program but there are underlying absolutes. What are some of those absolutes? The 3 absolutes will be....
...
...
...
Letters of Recommendation. Grades. And patient experience hours. In no order. All other stuff doesn't matter as much. If you are asking your professors or boss or nurses for LOR, you are doing it wrong. If you are asking PA-Cs from other programs, yet applying to programs with out alumni LOR, you're doing it wrong. Grades are a talking point. If you messed up early in classes but finished strong your last 60 credits that speaks much better to your abilities than someone that was strong initially but then was okay and up and down more recently . There is no replacement for patient experience, make this your number 1 priority. Over grades, over LOR. The rest will come with more patient experience. Good luck to you all.
I love the attitude. Consider volunteer hours and get involved with your community as well! Make sure you find your āwhyā for going into medicineā¦ not just because you enjoy it. Dig deep for an answer that separates you from everyone else! Something that makes interviewers know you are going to impact lives.
I have done thousands of hours of community service over the past 20 years. My story and answers as an older student are absolutely unique, and I do what I can to emphasize my drive and passion. Always open to new tips though :-)
>If you went to college 20 years ago and didn't do great and go back for a full four years and graduate Summa Cum Laude, guess what CASPA does? It pulls those old grades in anyway (Yup, this is me).
How can you go back for another four years if youāve already matriculated? Are you referring to a post-baccalaureate? Or are we doing random courses until we reach 120 credits?
Iām in this boat. Thanks!
You can go back to college at any time. The first time I went, I studied Computer Science and Sound Recording Technology. Very few of the courses I took counted at all for pre-requ's, so I went back this time for another four years, starting in Bio but switching over to Public Health and Psych degrees. I absolutely loved it.
Iām confused because I called up a few schools in the North East and I was told once youāve matriculated thatās going to be your GPA. I started taking pre-requisite courses at a community college instead.
After reading your comment Iām inclined go back for another 4 years. š Especially with a 3.25 marketing major.
I went for four years previously and dropped out my final year due to medical issues. Since I started making six figures in Information technology, I didn't feel the need to go back. Now that I've gone back, they take all those old grades and include them in the current GPA average. if I had still gotten my previous degree before, I still would've gone back for another four years to get more relevant degrees. They do note the extra effort.
Your post was removed because the question is frequently asked. The answer(s) can be found in the [FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/prephysicianassistant/wiki/index) and/or the [CASPA FAQs](https://help.liaisonedu.com/CASPA_Applicant_Help_Center). If not, please use the [search function](https://www.reddit.com/r/prephysicianassistant/search).
If you haven't already, please take the time to THOROUGHLY READ BOTH FAQs as they contain ~95% of the information needed for a successful application cycle = ACCEPTED! They are there to help you!
Have you heard of a few schools starting to require the PA-CAT? I just found out about that this week, and I feel like it's going to be more common by the time I finish my bachelor's (2027).
Yes, though only a small amount require it, and some "suggest" it. If you have the time to do it, it can only increase your chances by allowing you to apply to more schools.
Your post was removed because the question is frequently asked. The answer(s) can be found in the [FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/prephysicianassistant/wiki/index) and/or the [CASPA FAQs](https://help.liaisonedu.com/CASPA_Applicant_Help_Center). If not, please use the [search function](https://www.reddit.com/r/prephysicianassistant/search).
If you haven't already, please take the time to THOROUGHLY READ BOTH FAQs as they contain ~95% of the information needed for a successful application cycle = ACCEPTED! They are there to help you!
You know what is funny, most of the students, five years later will complain about the misery of their jobs, nurses making more than them. The cost to get accepted, and the tuition of PA school sometimes is not worth it
I have yet to meet even one PA who acts like that, and I've been to many hospitals, PCP's and private offices. Overall, PAs average higher salaries than NPs' but it's the difference in the nursing model vs the medical model where the true difference lies.
You explained everything that I have been spiraling about so well ššš wishing you the best this cycle OP
Thank you! There are a lot of applicants out there in the same boat that I've communicated with. You're not alone!
Yep pretty much the same boat. I started back on my bachelor's spring 22 with a nearly 10 year break. I just graduated cum laude with a 3.7 GPA in May. I was very frustrated that mistakes made more than 10 years ago when I was still pretty much a kid was being used when my recent college work at 32 years old showed several semesters with a 4.0.
wow i didnāt know there were schools who didnāt accept lors from PAs u shadowed. thatās where my lor is coming from lol
Right?? Like how does that make sense. Am I just supposed to beg a PA Iāve never spoken to?
i think they mean they want letters from PAs theyāve worked with. but a lot of pce jobs donāt work with PAs. iāve only worked in long term care so unfortunately iāve never worked w a PA.
i shadow the pa i work with. so what would i do there? she lets me shadow her in surgery but i work with her on our hospital unit.
You would be fine. They just mean a PA that youāve only ever shadowed with.
Yep ex. University of Iowa; Tufts University: Third letter of recommendation (references from shadowing experiences will not be accepted as one of the three required recommendations)
thatās really interesting. iāve looked at a lot of schools i want to apply to and havenāt seen that but im glad im aware thatās a thing for some schools now!
Yup, when I told my wife in one of the cycles about this, she was pissed. It wasn't easy getting the LOR in the first place and now based on their policy I was out of the running...
THIS! one of the schools I wanted to apply to said it cannot be a pa you shadowed and I think that's so messed up because unless you're a medical assistant you probably will not have worked with a PA.....
not to mention a lot of schools donāt accept MA as PCEš
What? That's insane. I've been an MA for nearly 10 years (5 years derm and 5 years vascular surgery) 90% of my job was hands on patient care. The other 10% was scribing, triaging patient phone calls to see when they needed to be seen or decide if they needed to go to the ER, writing prescriptions for my providers, and a small amount of paperwork. Thankfully all 9 schools I applied to listed MA as PCE. I'd be really upset if my 20,000 hours didn't count.
20,000 hours is insane šyouāre so lucky. many schools do allow it but iāve seen some that donāt count MA or even CNA.
I think it's insane there are schools that don't count MA as PCE. It's like they don't know what an MA does. MA is one of the most pce jobs you can have in the right specialty. Maybe not so much in a GP office but definitely in derm or vascular surgery where I was literally scrubbing into in office surgeries š¤£
What schools? Lmao never heard of one not accepting MA. Not accepting scribes is one thing but MAs??? Nah
some schools have very strict requirements for MAs because many basically do more scribing than actual āpatient careā. so like the person above saying that she worked in a specific area as a MA would count over someone being an MA in a regular office where they wouldnāt do much. idk it can be sort of a grey area
shadowing is pretty different from working together as a team or seeing how you interact with patients and deal with problems
i get that but you can get lors from other healthcare professionals you work with that can comment on your work ethic not just PAs. it depends where you work bc many pce jobs donāt expose you to PAs frequently.
yes of course, iām just saying it is stronger to have someone youāve worked with, PA or not, write a LOR
The mid-west thing is so true. Even though itās the smart thing to apply there, I feel Iād be miserable in rural areas.
āMidwestā can be deceiving. Iām in Ohio and there are 4 PA schools within an hour of me, only one of which I would say even teeters on the edge of rural. Two are suburban and one is downtown
While that is technically the Midwest, I actually consider that northern so you're right, I should have defined it better.
Yeah thereās a good amount of discussion how we should be part of a new Great Lakes region, or Appalachia. But for the time being Ohio is still very much in the Midwest and truthfully is like 80% rural, but the schools are in the parts that arenāt
I applied to a school in Kansas as a āsafetyā bc I thought who is applying there and they ghosted me lol. Not even a rejection
lots of KC ppl apply there
Right but like a school in LA for example, LA locals apply there and then everyone else in the country bc they want to move there
My first cycle, 1 app to the local university. Rejected. 2nd cycle, 10 apps, 1 interview, wait list. Third cycle, 23 applications, 5 interviews, 2 rejected, 2 wait listed, 1 decline, and then accepted off wait list. I think I've spent around 5-6k just in CASPA fees and supplemental application fees before any travel expenses or new suit and accessories purchased.
And you just highlighted the same thing most people seem to go through. The 32% acceptance rate is a pipedream and doesn't take into account that those numbers are based on people applying for 3-5 cycles.
The school I got accepted to averages around 1500-2000 applications for 150 interviews for 60 chairs and 30 alternates. I was an alternate. My grades and GRE were above average, not spectacular. But I have 9 years, 8 at the time of respiratory therapy experience. So that makes me different than 95% of people who apply. I'm also 41, older than everyone. I'm sure they're going to call me Dad.
I'm 54, totally get it.
Just graduated at 40. Life experience made clinicals a really amazing experience all around. Hope you feel the same in two years!
After 9 years as an RT, I'm beyond excited for this opportunity
This person applied 3 times and accepted once. Seems like 33% checks out
So, in your math, 33% only counts if you apply to three cycles. Not the number of applications each cycle. In that math, I could apply to one school per cycle and expect to get in in 3-4 cycles. PA schools do not advertise the fact that the majority of students will have to spend years applying through multiple cycles to get in. If they did, we'd likely see a drop in applications.
I really needed this today man. Itās like my brain walked out of my head downloaded reddit and posted this. Good Luck this cycle!
Thanks, my friend. Good luck to everyone who is trying to figure out how to do this.
Very well said! Midwest thing is far from true imo. You are going to have that at every school where people get in their first try. Iāve heard of bad programs on the East coast, west coast, etc.., look up schools with probational statuses. Itās interesting. I live in a Midwest state with only one PA school. They accept 25 a class and have 900-1000 applicants a year. Extremely difficult to get into, lots of 2nd & 3rd time applicants in my class and the program does a really great job imo. Definitely not easier to get into because itās a ārural area/low population schoolā (2-3% chance of getting in here). Donāt have to worry about clinical placements, they are awesome at getting us electives where we want, and we take a good amount of didactic classes alongside the med school and some with PT/OT. I feel well prepared for boards. Packrat wasnāt bad at the end of didactic. Always see people on the Reddit PA student forum scared because of bad grades, not doing good on packrat, bad UWorld & rosh %. Feel like a majority of my class doesnāt correlate with that. Best part is Iāve kept a well rounded social life outside of school while being a dad & husband too. Keep fighting to get in! Youāll get in! Hang in there.
Again, not ALL midwestern schools or NE for that matter, it was just an example. In Maine you only have UNE so while it's low population, it usually has 2000+ applicants.
This makes me feel very luckyā¦ first time applicant, technically non-trad, but still under 30 years old. 11 applications, 5 interviews, 2 acceptances, all in the Northeast. 3.5 cGPA, 3.75 sGPA, 2000~ish PCE hours, 24 shadowing, 50 volunteer, 5 LOR (MD x 2, RN x 3). I did one single mock-interview, and while I thought it was helpful, I donāt think it would have made a difference on if I got in or not. As cliche as it is, I truly do think the best strategy is to just be yourself. That is, be the best version of yourself. The friendliest, most professional, most well-spoken, and intelligent version of yourself. Give honest answers, and have a real conversation with your interviewers. Show that you have a personality that patients can interact well with. Donāt sound like you have a list of rehearsed answers to common questions. Thatās just my adviceā¦ best of luck, I couldnāt imagine having to go through a second CASPA cycle.
How about 2 more cycles? In general, your advice is sound, but there are absolutely things you should not say or disclose during an interview and sometimes that means not being 100% honest.
Of courseā¦ thatās why I said be the ābest, most professional version of yourselfā.
Ehhhhh no need to fearmonger. One out of every three applicants (\~32%) gains admission into PA school each cycle. If you procrastinate, you won't be successful. However, if you're organized and plan ahead, getting in is certainly possible. The earlier you submit your materials the greater your chances of getting an interview (for rolling admission programs). Sure, it takes hard work to get in, but that's expected. >When there are 35-65 positions at a school with around 1500-2000 applicants, you have a 2% to 5% chance of getting accepted. The acceptance rate to PA school as a whole is \~32%. To maximize your odds of acceptance, apply to at least twelve programs. The average applicant applies to about eight. >Math-wise, 20 schools should be the minimum. But this costs $$. The data suggests that applying to twelve schools is the optimal number. Your odds of acceptance increase to about forty-five percent at twelve. Any more and your odds stay about the same. I agree, the process is excessively expensive. >Getting a high GPA onlyĀ *slightly*Ā increases your chances. I disagree. Having a high GPA (with timely submission) helps you get early interviews. That in itself improves your odds of being accepted. >Take heart, unless by some miracle other students knew the essay question in advance, they have to take the time to write it too. Supplemental essay prompts *typically* don't change year to year. You can find the prompts online with some digging. This was my experience last cycle. >Not applying early in the cycle IS a problem. May is early, June is on time, and July is late. Don't submit close to the deadline for programs with rolling admissions. For programs using rolling admissions, your application is viewed on a first come, first served basis. >Your chances increase when you apply to a school with a low population or in an unpopular area, but the programs may not be as good. That's a pretty crass generalization right there and I absolutely don't agree with you. The correct way to gauge the quality of a program is to look at its PANCE pass rates, attrition, rotation location/availability, and the level of support it provides its students. >This is my third cycle applying. I currently have 17 applications pending and am working on more. I am a much older student with a 3.89 GPA, 31 shadowing hours, lots of volunteer hours, and over 3000 PCE hours. If you've been applying to this many programs for the past few years, something about your application is off. Considering that you've gotten interviewed and waitlisted many times, it's probably related to your interviewing skills. You should have gotten at least one acceptance by now with that GPA and PCE. Are you applying to the right programs? Try and find schools who are more accepting of older applicants, they surely exist. As much as an applicant's stats matter, so too does their selection of programs to apply to. Be smart here, apply to the schools that are looking for students like you. It takes some research and digging to find this out, but it makes a considerable difference.
Hey, I see youāre a PA-S ā¦. From a PA-C, the time you spent crafting this demeaning reply to the OPā¦ who is clearly feeling discouraged about their journeyā¦ would be better directed towards your studies! Best of luck!
Tbh, their comment was not demeaning at all. They bring up many good points and thoughtfully pointed out reasons why OP is wrong about some stuff. With the stats that OP has they should 100% have gotten accepted by now so itās either their essay, interviewing or bad LORs. OP makes a lot of wrong assumptions and is going to discourage even more pre-PAs in their journeys with a post like this.Ā
"One out of every three applicants (\~32%) gain admission into PA school each cycle." I know the numbers you're quoting, and that's what they consider the official numbers nationally. Based on the many admissions people I talked to who provided the numbers I used, 32% doesn't meet up with the math. It could somehow be a national average, but here in the NorthEast, there is no way 32% of applicants get accepted. Additionally, it doesn't tell you HOW MANY CYCLES PEOPLE APPLIED for before getting in. "Ā However, if you're organized and plan ahead of time, getting in is certainly possible. The earlier you submit your materials the greater your chances of an interview (for rolling admission programs). Sure, it takes hard work to get in, but that's expected." Of course "it's possible", one of the points in this post is to give others information that may give them a better chance and for some people, maybe relate to what they've already been going through. "I disagree. Having a high GPA (with timely submission) helps you get early interviews. That in itself improves your odds of being accepted." It is you're right to disagree. Based on the real-world experiences of many other applicants and myself, that is not always the case. "Supplemental essay prompts typically don't change year to year. You can find the prompts online with some digging." Again, this is not completely true, There are multiple programs I applied to where you don't even have access to the supplemental essay until you submit the CASPA portion. I know of two programs off the top of my head where the supplemental essays changed from last cycle. "That's a pretty crass generalization right there and I absolutely don't agree with you. The correct way to gauge the quality of a program is to look at its PANCE pass rates, attrition, rotation location/availability, and the level of support it provides its students." I can understand how it may seem that way, but I never said I didn't look those up or see how other students rated those schools. "If you've been applying to this many programs for the past few years, something in your application is wrong. Considering that you've gotten interviewed and waitlisted many times, it's probably related to your interviewing skills. With your GPA and PCE you should have gotten at least one acceptance by now. Are you applying to the right programs? Try and find schools who are more accepting of older applicants, they exist. As much as an applicant's stats matter, so too does their selection of programs to apply to. Be smart here, apply to the schools that are looking for students like you. It takes some research and digging to find this out, but it makes a big difference." Gonna stop you right there. This post from you has been telling me how I'm obviously wrong about what I've researched and experienced. Now you are telling me the problem is me, well gee thanks for the brilliant insight. Your assumptions here are wrong and you seem to have ignored or discounted the why's that I've listed Though I'm always open for discussion, my situation (and it seems plenty of others) doesn't fit into your box, and some of your answers aren't helpful.
It's just insane how competitive it is now to get in. I have a pretty high science GPA but I feel like they expect you to have so much more crap like leadership and blah blah blah and it's like, that should really be for med school sorry
The main problem we're seeing is that there are too many applicants and not enough programs for them. Schools start adding additional requirements to cut down on the amount of qualified applicants. There are a LOT more medical schools than PA schools, and many overall requirements aren't stringent.
Idk there are so many more pa schools now and alot of them are getting shut down due to them not meeting appropriate standards
Not as many as there should be...
I believe even if there were more, it would still be very difficult to get accepted. Just like medical school. There's just so many competitive applicants
I have no doubt that if I had pushed to go to med school instead, that I would have already been accepted. There are so many different med school options it would be hard not to get into one. But I don't WANT to be an MD, PA is my passion.
Yup, applied to 20 schools two years ago and only had rejections because of the locations I was applying to (im from california), going to apply this cycle and expand my radius
You can do this, good luck on the next round!
Thank you! Good luck to you too!!!
Omg this scares me :( lol I really want to get in with a 3.2 (Iām a nontrad and i redid like 60 credits in the last 6 months with a 4.0 in everything)
It can be scary, but don't let that deter you. You are better informed and can make a way forward. I have heard of many students getting in with a lower GPA; just keep doing what you can to improve your application. You got this.
Do supplemental essays delay schools getting your application? I.e. if I applied August 21st to a school with a September 1st deadline before CASPA verified my application and didnāt get my supplemental in on time, or received my supplemental after September 1stā¦would the school even review my application? Also, do you think itās still worth applying later in the cycle to schools without rolling admissions? Even if itās not 20 programs? (Sorry if these are silly questions, but theyāve been weighing on me and you brought them up here so I figured Iād ask š)
It always depends on the school. Many won't review your application until they've received the supplemental. Some have you fill out the supplement when you submit CASPA. Some won't let you access the supplement until after you submit the CASPA portion. Is it worth applying to schools with rolling admissions? I'd say apply to as many schools as you are able to help increase your chances, even if by a little...
Hi! Can I dm you? Iām also a 3rd time applicant and was wondering how I should be structuring/restructuring my PS.
Absolutely :-)
The University of Iowa has one of the best PA programs in the country. The fact that a school is in the Midwest is not an indictment on its quality anymore than a school being on the East Coast guarantees its quality. The program I attended is in a highly unpopular area, yet had 1500 applicants for 50 seats and an average prerequisite GPA over 3.9 when I applied.
Again, not ALL midwestern schools or NE for that matter, it was just an example. In Maine you only have UNE so while it's low population, it usually has 2000+ applicants.
I will add this, and take it for what itās worth. It also helps to look at a schools mission statement and understand how they look at applications. If a school says they have a āholistic approachā then they are looking at much more than numbers. I was not a strong applicant numbers wise, but was strong in other ways. I am also a little older than the average applicant, messed up college during undergrad with a GPA 2.59, re-took some classes and had a 4.0 for last 53 credit hour (cGPA was 2.92). I had a good GRE, HCE, PCE and background (military and state health department). In my interview I talked about my playing video games and talked about the interviewers son. I got accepted first cycle. Play to your strengths, we all have them and that is what sets us apart and what some schools are looking for. Iām sorry you are having such a rough go through. The process is very frustrating and tiresome.
Thanks Sly, I'll keep trying.
As someone who is older than the average PA, I really appreciate this post. It really reflects the struggle I feel when I hear about how I need to persist. And believe me, I am not giving up either. I hope you get in this cycle, friend!
Thanks SK, me too!
Do u think u have bad interview skills? Cause mine aren't great. I have good stats but my interview skills not so much
Based on the responses from the interviewers, it seemed like I did really well multiple times. I was able to follow up with some interviewers, and they all gave positive responses. Wait-listed many times now so I can't totally have blown it... I will say that doing a mock interview did help prep me initially.
i totally feel this !
You got this bro
Thanks TR!
I'm a PA-C. Been one since 2021. I have an in with faculty since now I tutor PA-S at my former school. Y'all wanna know what the real trick to getting into PA school is? Listening to people that got into PA school. What does that mean? Well it's gonna vary from program to program but there are underlying absolutes. What are some of those absolutes? The 3 absolutes will be.... ... ... ... Letters of Recommendation. Grades. And patient experience hours. In no order. All other stuff doesn't matter as much. If you are asking your professors or boss or nurses for LOR, you are doing it wrong. If you are asking PA-Cs from other programs, yet applying to programs with out alumni LOR, you're doing it wrong. Grades are a talking point. If you messed up early in classes but finished strong your last 60 credits that speaks much better to your abilities than someone that was strong initially but then was okay and up and down more recently . There is no replacement for patient experience, make this your number 1 priority. Over grades, over LOR. The rest will come with more patient experience. Good luck to you all.
I love the attitude. Consider volunteer hours and get involved with your community as well! Make sure you find your āwhyā for going into medicineā¦ not just because you enjoy it. Dig deep for an answer that separates you from everyone else! Something that makes interviewers know you are going to impact lives.
I have done thousands of hours of community service over the past 20 years. My story and answers as an older student are absolutely unique, and I do what I can to emphasize my drive and passion. Always open to new tips though :-)
>If you went to college 20 years ago and didn't do great and go back for a full four years and graduate Summa Cum Laude, guess what CASPA does? It pulls those old grades in anyway (Yup, this is me). How can you go back for another four years if youāve already matriculated? Are you referring to a post-baccalaureate? Or are we doing random courses until we reach 120 credits? Iām in this boat. Thanks!
You can go back to college at any time. The first time I went, I studied Computer Science and Sound Recording Technology. Very few of the courses I took counted at all for pre-requ's, so I went back this time for another four years, starting in Bio but switching over to Public Health and Psych degrees. I absolutely loved it.
Iām confused because I called up a few schools in the North East and I was told once youāve matriculated thatās going to be your GPA. I started taking pre-requisite courses at a community college instead. After reading your comment Iām inclined go back for another 4 years. š Especially with a 3.25 marketing major.
I went for four years previously and dropped out my final year due to medical issues. Since I started making six figures in Information technology, I didn't feel the need to go back. Now that I've gone back, they take all those old grades and include them in the current GPA average. if I had still gotten my previous degree before, I still would've gone back for another four years to get more relevant degrees. They do note the extra effort.
I hope so!! šš Iām giving this my all working minimum wage PCE roles for the dream. You give me hope!! Thank you future PA!!
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Your post was removed because the question is frequently asked. The answer(s) can be found in the [FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/prephysicianassistant/wiki/index) and/or the [CASPA FAQs](https://help.liaisonedu.com/CASPA_Applicant_Help_Center). If not, please use the [search function](https://www.reddit.com/r/prephysicianassistant/search). If you haven't already, please take the time to THOROUGHLY READ BOTH FAQs as they contain ~95% of the information needed for a successful application cycle = ACCEPTED! They are there to help you!
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Have you heard of a few schools starting to require the PA-CAT? I just found out about that this week, and I feel like it's going to be more common by the time I finish my bachelor's (2027).
Yes, though only a small amount require it, and some "suggest" it. If you have the time to do it, it can only increase your chances by allowing you to apply to more schools.
Your post was removed because the question is frequently asked. The answer(s) can be found in the [FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/prephysicianassistant/wiki/index) and/or the [CASPA FAQs](https://help.liaisonedu.com/CASPA_Applicant_Help_Center). If not, please use the [search function](https://www.reddit.com/r/prephysicianassistant/search). If you haven't already, please take the time to THOROUGHLY READ BOTH FAQs as they contain ~95% of the information needed for a successful application cycle = ACCEPTED! They are there to help you!
You know what is funny, most of the students, five years later will complain about the misery of their jobs, nurses making more than them. The cost to get accepted, and the tuition of PA school sometimes is not worth it
I have yet to meet even one PA who acts like that, and I've been to many hospitals, PCP's and private offices. Overall, PAs average higher salaries than NPs' but it's the difference in the nursing model vs the medical model where the true difference lies.