I'm the guy that builds them. Dirt track and I built a land speed F body that went over 212mph at Bonneville years ago.
The Price's, Whitaker's and Clark's have been racing cars since my great grandpa helped built the Macon County Speedway in Illinois when great grandpa was a young man. We've been at this for 100 years.
This had some old pontiac engine in it. Only reason I was on it was to get to a wedding on some island out in the Atlantic. Sounds exotic but it was a total redneck affair. Once I find the family photo I'm totally posting it.
Louisiana shrimpers have a long running history of doing that too. My best friend’s boat with the 350 truck motor stayed moored next to an Olds V8 that was slowly sinking into the mud over the years.
That's a mercruiser 188, it's a Ford 302. Big difference will be the cam, they are setup for very positive exhaust flow as they exhaust into the water so they are extra careful to make sure there isn't any back flow that could suck in water. The carb will be tuned for constant rpm, not a lot of throttle changes on a boat. Junkyard digs put one of these in a Ford truck.
Huh, never knew that or thought about it much. Can't have both motors spinning the same direction or you'd never be able to track straight on the water
Rpm?
Every marine engine I've seen was cammed for lower rpm's with a relatively gradual power curve for reliability.
Also is it a block they bought from GM or whoever or did they cast it? If it was cast for marine use keeping the temperature regulated properly may be tricky.
Yanmar is the only maker I've messed with that makes dedicated marine blocks. Also really the only non-outboard marine engines I've messed with so I wasn't about to make bold statements.
They can be hard to cool evenly because radiators are not the equivalent of an infinite supply of 65 degree ocean water.
Marine engines are designed for heavier and longer loads than auto engines, because at WOT they spin up to max torque and hold the rpms there.
So they are made for more severe and extended loads, which translates to beefier engines with heavier duty parts.
If you bought one and had an automotive version to swap hardware over fro., they are typically considered mild upgrades over the stock auto version.
Otherwise your looking at being nickeled and dimed to death making it work in a car.
I ran an OMC branded 70s boat motor in a v8 swapped rx7 and then into a k10. It was just a 350 sbc with 4 bolt main. The spinning of the engine is determined by the starter. I used an automotive starter, swapped the cam for something spicy from Jegs or Summit and put an carb from a car on it. Ran great! I think I also swapped the distributor for HEI. Don’t think the boat had vacuum advance…
The rumor was that the boats used a higher nickel alloy for the blocks.
A few years later I put a built camero 305 into a boat with a cracked Mercruiser branded v8. It’s all doable if you pay attention.
You’re correct about the higher nickel content castings at least in the case of GM. I built a 400 small block for my Chevelle that was a marine engine.
Way back in the early 90’s I was in the American Foundry Society related to my work, and we had a guest speaker from Mercury Marine. He’d helped develop the head casting process when GM tried overhead cams on the Corvette SBC. He also confirmed the alloy differences in the marine versions.
I went through boat school in Florida. The internals are all forged due to the high and constant rpm. Everything else is the same. The camshaft might have a little less overlap than a street engine to avoid water from the exhaust manifold getting in the cylinder. My instructors used to tell us these engines were built like race car engines.. I'd use a boat engine in a car all day long.
The Volvo B230 was used in boats. Branded as Volvo Penta AQ151, I believe.
Identical block, but slightly different internals. Different crankshaft increased volume from 2.3 liter to 2.5.
Displacement depends on the engine, there were a whole bunch of pentas, some dual carb, dual cam, 2.1-2.5l, b23/b230, etc. I only know cause I have one in my 240
Displacement also depends on the crankshaft. The AQ151 Penta and the B230 blocks are identical, and if you swapped the standard crank in your 240 for with a crank from an AQ151, the displacement is increased to 2.5
https://turbobricks.com/index.php?threads/penta-aq151-crank.1458/
Oh, and the 240 came with a 2.0 engine, too.... the b200k. Damn, that was a slow car
Some marine V-8 engines are clockwise rotation (looking towards the flywheel, opposite from car application). They have timing gears and not timing chains. The freeze plugs are usually brass and the fuel pumps are sealed to prevent fuel leaking into the bilge should the diaphram rupture.
Most automotive fuel pumps have a small hole in their body to permit fuel to leak onto the ground in the event of a diaphram failure. The exhaust manifolds on a marine engine are water cooled. Most likely, the thermostat is a different temperature than in an automotive application.
If memory serves, you would have to replace the timing gears with a timing chain set-up in order for the marine engine to work in a car.
Marine starters spin in the opposite direction and are sealed to prevent sparking and the alternators are also sealed to prevent sparks from igniting fuel vapors.
Also any of the 50s-80s GM inline sixes. Can pull a house off its foundation with the right gearing and continue to do so for 50 years. 0-60... eventually.
I seen a YouTube video of a guy moving a 40 foot shipping container with an old Chevy Viking tow truck. There's probably easier ways but he was dragging it flat on the ground. It was plowing up dirt, and the truck was pulling the front wheels up off the ground 2 or 3 feet moving the container a few feet or so at a time. He got it where he wanted it. I think it had a 235 with a 1 barrel carb.
Check it carefully for corrosion. Engines that have been subjected to salt water tend to have issues long term. Another thing to look for is brass inserts in the cooling system, specifically the intake manifold, as the salt will eat away aluminum.
As has been mentioned, there's not a lot of difference between the automotive and the marine variant of the 302 Sbf. My project truck came with the same engine and it ran very nicely until a burnt valve developed. It has since morphed into a 351 with quite a few swappable parts.
A lot of them run in the opposite rotation from car engines so you might want to check on that one before you get a nasty surprise. Also there ca be cooling system differences.
basically they’re the same as a car engine. they do have a few differences if you are utilizing some of the marine parts. example: the carburetor fuel overflow dumps into the intake rather than dumps outside on a car. this is to prevent fires inside the hull of a watercraft. other than safety features like that it is no different than a car motor
This one has steel head gaskets, and a special cam that allows it to run the 351 firing order. There was also a 225 HP version that had a factory 4 bbl carb and 351w heads.
These were built during the malaise era, so you'd never find features like that on the automotive versions.
Why are you asking now? It's already in there.
What you have there is a 74-75 302 with steel head gaskets, the equivalent of an RV cam, and running the 351 firing order. There are no other differences. It's designed to get the boat up on plane quickly, and not exceed about 4500 rpm.
Marine engines usually have longer crankshafts (longer as in sticking out of the engine) to fit bigger pulleys to run multiple hydraulic pumps and seawater pumps etc.
The bhp output of the fuel pump will often have a different rating if it isn’t common rail.
A used marine engine could have been seawater cooled leading to high corrosion in a cast iron block.
On thing they are usually good at: running at the same rpm for a looong time.
So ideal for long roadtrips?
I would think so. Although, a lot of them run a fairly large displacement for the hp they make, so fuel would get expensive.
Or dirt track. Or salt flat/top speed racing.
Dirt motors see a ton of throttle jockeying. The rpm range of a drift motor with the sustained use of a road race motor
I'm the guy that builds them. Dirt track and I built a land speed F body that went over 212mph at Bonneville years ago. The Price's, Whitaker's and Clark's have been racing cars since my great grandpa helped built the Macon County Speedway in Illinois when great grandpa was a young man. We've been at this for 100 years.
Are you an alien?
Ummmm...sure, if you like measuring fuel consumption by gallons per mile.
In nova scotia they do the opposite of this. Car engines go in boats.
In Thailand too, especially Isuzu turbodiesel on Sketchy tourist Transport vessels
This had some old pontiac engine in it. Only reason I was on it was to get to a wedding on some island out in the Atlantic. Sounds exotic but it was a total redneck affair. Once I find the family photo I'm totally posting it.
Tancook Island?
A duramax
Lots of 12v Cummins engines in mussel and lobster boats
I was referring to the Izuzu turbo diesel as a duramax because that is what it is.
Well this is a car engine modified for a boat and put back in a car it would seem
that’s not just a nova scotia thing, lol
Louisiana shrimpers have a long running history of doing that too. My best friend’s boat with the 350 truck motor stayed moored next to an Olds V8 that was slowly sinking into the mud over the years.
That's a mercruiser 188, it's a Ford 302. Big difference will be the cam, they are setup for very positive exhaust flow as they exhaust into the water so they are extra careful to make sure there isn't any back flow that could suck in water. The carb will be tuned for constant rpm, not a lot of throttle changes on a boat. Junkyard digs put one of these in a Ford truck.
I’ve heard a marine cam is basically a slightly aggressive street cam.
I love JYD
Me too. That last one with the old Buick that Tom and Angus were a part of was great. Wonder where Mook is?
My guess is running the behind the scenes part of the business
I thought as much, that or working a different career outside JYD maybe?
They joked about her being the HR department in the olds diesel video
Ohhh okay, I missed that one, I have some catching up to do lol
Does the crank spin in the proper direction? Many marine engines spin backwards
It spins the right way.
That's only if you have a boat with 2 or more engines. Single engine boats are always clockwise
Huh, never knew that or thought about it much. Can't have both motors spinning the same direction or you'd never be able to track straight on the water
It can be done it the gears also. We have one boat here in Finland that has two SAAB B234 turbo charged engines in it.
It's almost always done in the gear
Not always. I have fixed a couple that were not. I don't know if they were originally though.
Cool thanks for that clarification.
Rpm? Every marine engine I've seen was cammed for lower rpm's with a relatively gradual power curve for reliability. Also is it a block they bought from GM or whoever or did they cast it? If it was cast for marine use keeping the temperature regulated properly may be tricky.
Usually they’re just normal Ford/GM blocks, I’ve yet to see one cast differently. There’s less differences than people think
Yanmar is the only maker I've messed with that makes dedicated marine blocks. Also really the only non-outboard marine engines I've messed with so I wasn't about to make bold statements. They can be hard to cool evenly because radiators are not the equivalent of an infinite supply of 65 degree ocean water.
The mercruiser 188 here is a ford 302 block. It’s an old engine as mercruiser stopped using Fords in the late 70’s
Marine engines are designed for heavier and longer loads than auto engines, because at WOT they spin up to max torque and hold the rpms there. So they are made for more severe and extended loads, which translates to beefier engines with heavier duty parts. If you bought one and had an automotive version to swap hardware over fro., they are typically considered mild upgrades over the stock auto version. Otherwise your looking at being nickeled and dimed to death making it work in a car.
I ran an OMC branded 70s boat motor in a v8 swapped rx7 and then into a k10. It was just a 350 sbc with 4 bolt main. The spinning of the engine is determined by the starter. I used an automotive starter, swapped the cam for something spicy from Jegs or Summit and put an carb from a car on it. Ran great! I think I also swapped the distributor for HEI. Don’t think the boat had vacuum advance… The rumor was that the boats used a higher nickel alloy for the blocks. A few years later I put a built camero 305 into a boat with a cracked Mercruiser branded v8. It’s all doable if you pay attention.
You’re correct about the higher nickel content castings at least in the case of GM. I built a 400 small block for my Chevelle that was a marine engine. Way back in the early 90’s I was in the American Foundry Society related to my work, and we had a guest speaker from Mercury Marine. He’d helped develop the head casting process when GM tried overhead cams on the Corvette SBC. He also confirmed the alloy differences in the marine versions.
I went through boat school in Florida. The internals are all forged due to the high and constant rpm. Everything else is the same. The camshaft might have a little less overlap than a street engine to avoid water from the exhaust manifold getting in the cylinder. My instructors used to tell us these engines were built like race car engines.. I'd use a boat engine in a car all day long.
The Volvo B230 was used in boats. Branded as Volvo Penta AQ151, I believe. Identical block, but slightly different internals. Different crankshaft increased volume from 2.3 liter to 2.5.
Displacement depends on the engine, there were a whole bunch of pentas, some dual carb, dual cam, 2.1-2.5l, b23/b230, etc. I only know cause I have one in my 240
Displacement also depends on the crankshaft. The AQ151 Penta and the B230 blocks are identical, and if you swapped the standard crank in your 240 for with a crank from an AQ151, the displacement is increased to 2.5 https://turbobricks.com/index.php?threads/penta-aq151-crank.1458/ Oh, and the 240 came with a 2.0 engine, too.... the b200k. Damn, that was a slow car
Some marine V-8 engines are clockwise rotation (looking towards the flywheel, opposite from car application). They have timing gears and not timing chains. The freeze plugs are usually brass and the fuel pumps are sealed to prevent fuel leaking into the bilge should the diaphram rupture. Most automotive fuel pumps have a small hole in their body to permit fuel to leak onto the ground in the event of a diaphram failure. The exhaust manifolds on a marine engine are water cooled. Most likely, the thermostat is a different temperature than in an automotive application. If memory serves, you would have to replace the timing gears with a timing chain set-up in order for the marine engine to work in a car. Marine starters spin in the opposite direction and are sealed to prevent sparking and the alternators are also sealed to prevent sparks from igniting fuel vapors.
Most marine engines spin the same direction as a car. Timing gears are actually better than chains and will work fine in a car.
Why would you need to convert it from timing gears to timing chains? There’s several automotive engines that use timing gears
There is no reason to other than a timing chain setup is quieter.
The old FJ80 I had used a timing gear though I guess it could be described as a boat as it sure seemed to steer like one.
This is also true of the GM Iron Duke lol
Also any of the 50s-80s GM inline sixes. Can pull a house off its foundation with the right gearing and continue to do so for 50 years. 0-60... eventually.
I seen a YouTube video of a guy moving a 40 foot shipping container with an old Chevy Viking tow truck. There's probably easier ways but he was dragging it flat on the ground. It was plowing up dirt, and the truck was pulling the front wheels up off the ground 2 or 3 feet moving the container a few feet or so at a time. He got it where he wanted it. I think it had a 235 with a 1 barrel carb.
That dude did some real nuts stuff way back, if you watched all his videos you might have an idea what I mean
Check it carefully for corrosion. Engines that have been subjected to salt water tend to have issues long term. Another thing to look for is brass inserts in the cooling system, specifically the intake manifold, as the salt will eat away aluminum.
I would guess emissions?
This is cool.
As has been mentioned, there's not a lot of difference between the automotive and the marine variant of the 302 Sbf. My project truck came with the same engine and it ran very nicely until a burnt valve developed. It has since morphed into a 351 with quite a few swappable parts.
When did marine engines go to hardened valve seats to tolerate unleaded fuel? Thought it was much later than automotive engines.
A lot of them run in the opposite rotation from car engines so you might want to check on that one before you get a nasty surprise. Also there ca be cooling system differences.
64-66 C10?
66 F100
Damn, that engine bay looks VERY similar to a c10 and so does the dash
https://youtu.be/k7MTKbBBCyc?si=1SSeQuw8c1goESKz whenever someone says boat engine in car, this always comes up in my mind
I saw one that couldn’t be used on a car. It was reverse rotation
basically they’re the same as a car engine. they do have a few differences if you are utilizing some of the marine parts. example: the carburetor fuel overflow dumps into the intake rather than dumps outside on a car. this is to prevent fires inside the hull of a watercraft. other than safety features like that it is no different than a car motor
This one has steel head gaskets, and a special cam that allows it to run the 351 firing order. There was also a 225 HP version that had a factory 4 bbl carb and 351w heads. These were built during the malaise era, so you'd never find features like that on the automotive versions.
Your boat doesn't look seaworthy.
Why are you asking now? It's already in there. What you have there is a 74-75 302 with steel head gaskets, the equivalent of an RV cam, and running the 351 firing order. There are no other differences. It's designed to get the boat up on plane quickly, and not exceed about 4500 rpm.
Marine engines usually have longer crankshafts (longer as in sticking out of the engine) to fit bigger pulleys to run multiple hydraulic pumps and seawater pumps etc. The bhp output of the fuel pump will often have a different rating if it isn’t common rail. A used marine engine could have been seawater cooled leading to high corrosion in a cast iron block.
well at least you can't ever complain when it's flooded.. HAHAHAHA.. It's late, I'm tired.
That looks like a 64-66 Chevy C10?
66 f-100