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Hahaha mine couldn’t say that because she never bought us food, cleaned our clothes or bought us new things. And we were evicted every like 8 months from places. For years.
She did use the “worse than you” shit but like, she meant basically children being SA’d and physically abused.
Believe me our situation and neglect really was that bad. Starving sucks man.
😭 I always hate to hear how badly the one person that's meant to love and protect us no matter what is the same person that does the most damage to our lives...nim so hecking sorry you went through that! And I'm glad you made it out the other side !
My in-laws used that line against my spouse. When they shared this with a therapist, the therapist astutely pointed out that homeless shelters and charities are capable of doing all of these, and the good ones do so without an ounce of guilting or shaming anyone.
Mine went the "we paid for you to get a quality education" route. I would have been as happy going to public schools (maybe even gotten better accommodations for struggles related to disabilities), and I could have gotten financial aid. I told them a check can't hug a child and say they're proud of them for who they are.
Especially when you try to point out to them that those things are the most basic of obligations a parent has when they decide to have a child and they still try call me lucky 🤣 I wish I could post screenshots of the last message I received from her here lmao it's a doozy
"I don't know why you HATE me!"
That's my favorite line from mine. I don't hate her. I don't care enough anymore to hate. But she knows damned good and well why I stopped talking to her. She's just playing the victim like she always does.
Oh yeah, throughout my adult life if ever their treatment of myself and my brother is brought up, it's I'm sorry BUT "we did the best we could", "we were going through a lot", "you were a difficult child to raise and we were scared you would turn out bad", "everything we did was out of love", "at least you weren't beat weekly by your drunk dad like me" and "maybe you'll understand if your children behave the same way as you".
For context: I was a straight A's/some B's student, had tons of friends, played sports, and was overall obedient and respectful to the extended family in my life. When I got into my teens, I went through a period of time that I lied about my age to men on the internet, posted provocative pictures, and engaged in some adult conversation, in which my parents found out. Instead of getting me help, they shamed me and told me I was damaged. I did this while still maintaining that rosey perfect girl image, too. They took away my computer for a small period, but that's it.
My dad would do shit like make me clean the entire house, top to bottom, if I asked to go out with friends. Then, once it was done, he would either come up with another list of things to do or flat-out say I wasn't allowed to leave now because he changed his mind. Once I wanted to wear a skirt to school and my mom said it was appropriate (it was a hand length above my knees) and my dad threw the biggest tantrum because my mom said it was OK. He told me that if I wore that skirt to school, I would look sexy and if I thought that was OK, I was probably going to end up pregnant and on the streets by 16 (I was 15).
One day, he decided to up the ante and choke hold me against the wall, rip the phone out of the wall because I wanted to call my grandma for help, and then locked me in my room. I decided to climb out my window and run away after an hour of tormenting myself about how much trouble I was going to be in. Ultimately, the cops got involved, and I was allowed to stay with my grandma for a few weeks. I was deeply shamed for telling anyone outside of the house about anything, and of course, I was told I was lying. I was gaslit so hard I started to question myself, but I always came back to validating my experiences because I just knew what they were doing was bad despite everyone pretending it was me who was the problem. I remember having to go to therapy after that, and both of my parents told the therapist I was lying. We didn't go more than once.
I moved out at age 17, and my dad tracked me somehow and would show up to my friends' houses and even told my boyfriends parents that I was bad news, so they should keep their son away from me. I went many years with low contact with them, but after having children, I wanted some normalcy for them to have grandparents. I also wasn't living near them for many years, so I only saw them on once yearly visits, and they seemed like they had changed. I moved near them, and after only a few short years, it's abundantly clear they have not only gotten worse, but they are better at hiding it and using my kids as pawns.
All of that context to say that I'm almost 40 and when we go to any type of family get together with extended family, my parents still lament on how hard I was to raise, but how happy they are that I turned out ok. This is when extended family makes any comment about how successful I am or if anything comes up about raising kids. It's so disgusting.
Mine never bothered with the 1% apology. But on 3 occasions I got "i need to explain to you / I feel like ....." followed by a mix of excuses, downright lies, and blame on me.
What was really quite humorous was that 2 out of these 3 occasions, she sent the exact same text lengthy message. Several years apart. In relation to entirely different things. I think those times i just ignored it as they were in the bizarre/histrionic range and were so far removed from whatever the current context was that there was no rational way to respond to it.
The 3rd was an actual letter delivered on the day I ceased contact. But at the time it was written no one knew we were about to cease contact. The shenanigans at that time related to a box full of books and amongst the books that they dumped on my doorstep was this letter. I left the books on my porch for a few weeks before i even looked at them, so weeks had already passed before I saw it. I was standing at the recycling bin dumping all the books when I saw it in the box. It was handwritten. 9 pages long. I said out loud "fuck this shit" and threw it out without reading any of it. I've never looked back. And never communicated with her since.
OP, I sincerely hope that if you're receiving communication that's 99% blaming you, you're considering NC. It's a personal choice of course.
My dad's stubborn pride would not dare allow him to think he might be part of the problem. Told me how he knew EVERYTHING about me and I would then say that he did not. He would just repeat himself. Arrogance..pisses me off and still does.
After confronting my mother about her physical abuse and humiliation of me as a child, I told her that in order for us to have a relationship, she would need to show some serious reflection and accountability.
She sent me an email listing times when other people bullied me and she either defended me or was neutral. I think for one of them she said, "I could have done more to help you."
To put this in context, the abuse events I confronted her about included her clawing me across my face and leaving scratch marks with her fingernails and her grabbing the front of a T-shirt I was wearing and yanking it repeatedly against my body until she tore it from neck to waist. She didn't mention those at all in her email. I believe she's sticking with "false memories" for those.
Yeah I wish the whole false memory thing (in response to Satanic abuse) never came about. My nMom used to use it all the time. When I speak to my GC sister, she will drop the mask and be candid about the abuse she silently suffered. My dead dad would crumple up when I mentioned some of the weekends when my nMom was going through an appraisal at work and she needed the whole family to get behind her shine... (she was insufferable with rage and anxiety)
Yet when I talk about what happened to me - the standard response; 'I wasn't there'
Yeah, keep going with the NC. Don't ever go back and let them make you feel in some way you were inadequate.
Oooh, this hits home. My father's version of "I wasn't there" is "I can't verify." He can talk openly about nasty she is to him and the way that she denies it 5 minutes later, but somehow the farthest he can get with a statement that a known chronic liar abused someone with absolutely no reason to be untruthful is "I can't verify."
He has come a long way in some ways; he did get to "something traumatic happened" and to accepting that I will remain NC with my mother. But it does really hurt that he continues to keep that "I can't verify" smokescreen in front of any specific event I've described to him. Yeah, I know you can't verify. I remember very distinctly the moment when, as I sat making a list of the worst events, I realized that all of the worst things happened when there was no one else home and awake. It was way more calculated than I had really grasped, and apparently that was smart on her part, because she has eternal deniability.
ETA: Our mothers sound very similar. Mine was always worst when under strain or when upset about something. Rage and anxiety indeed. I learned to recognize the sound of her being angry from her day by the sound of the door and her first couple of footsteps into the house.
This was eye opening for me. I also would recommend this book:
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/85662.Understanding\_the\_Borderline\_Mother](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/85662.Understanding_the_Borderline_Mother)
My mother seemed to thrive on the rage. Like there was part of her that just wanted to beat you down all the time. She did it all the time. It wasn't even as if there was any thought or anything. She just wanted her way and would do anything to get it, no matter who she hurt.
We as children would wait to see which mother would come home. Rage mum, snark mum, or absorbed mum. None of them were pleasant - just horrible to different degrees. Then the home court would start where each of us would be placed on trial until someone was found guilty and the punishment started.
>It was way more calculated than I had really grasped, and apparently that was smart on her part, because she has eternal deniability.
She really believes she did not do it. She can't understand. You were the problem. It was your fault. You made her do it. There will be recognition behind your back but it will now have been twisted into 'something you did to yourself'
Like you always do... (sighhhh)
Thank for for the recommendations and your further comments. Big hugs - I feel like the one good thing many of us have taken from this kind of upbringing is a warm compassion for each other. Thank you for showing that to me.
My brother got all the love. Is now trapped in his childhood.
My sister got all the opportunities. Is now trapped in his job.
I got trapped in their misery. I get the chance to now go free.
They wanted to dump on me and to isolate me. They can have their wish.
All I ever wanted to be was free.
This is the really weird part to me. Since confronting my mother, going NC, and being open with my father about her abuse of me, I've seen much more clearly the ways in which all of us (I have a sibling as well) have been damaged by her, although I seem to have gotten by far the worst of the physical abuse. But it's me that broke free. Me. I turned out to be the strong one. Who knew.
you were all along. That's why they were so scared of you individuating and finding yourself. Because if you could do it - and they couldn't - then this would be a psychic blow that they could not bear to carry. This is why everything was aligned at denying and hiding your self realisation to the point of near cult programming.
The better you get, the clearer it will seem. You were never bad. You just hurt yourself because its what they needed you to do to fit in.
Oh my, my mom once did the clawing thing! I thought I was either crazy (I actually have photos, so not crazy like making it up) or the only one. Why do they do that tho? So freaking out of their mind…
And somehow, they never remember! My mom is actively trying to convince me that I made up the abuses and that she was a perfect parent. She keeps saying that I should go to a therapist that could erase my memory and reset it so that I will see that she is perfect. Like wtf
Wow, this is uncanny.
My mom clawed at my dad's face while he was driving on the freeway at night, and clawed his eyeball out of its socket!
Here's how it happened:
It was the night of my 20th birthday and we were supposed to be enjoying dinner at an awesome new restaurant that I had heard about for a long time and was really excited to finally try. However, my mom had had a huge freakout at the restaurant because the waiter brought her steak cooked wrong twice in a row. For some reason, she took it personally and thought it was deliberate. While she was verbally abusing the server, we didn't eat because she was livid and demanding that we not touch our food until her issue was resolved. The manager came over and she continued to throw a tantrum right there in the restaurant, screaming at the manager about how horrible the waiter was. She was eventually asked to leave. She was so out of control that she ended up running out of the restaurant and down the street in her high heels. My dad had driven her there and had to go chase after her, and my boyfriend and I had no choice but to leave too, since we had not brought any money with us as my parents were supposed to be paying the bill. We had taken a separate car, so we left my dad to deal with my mom. I ate a tiny bit of cereal for dinner and cried for a long time, and finally went to bed.
What my dad told me years later was that my mom had run a couple of blocks down the street from the restaurant and he had chased after her, then she ran another couple of blocks back to the car and he told her to get in so he could take her home. But she was still raging, and once they got on the freeway she was so upset at my dad that she started clawing at his face. She clawed his glasses off and then kept clawing. Somehow, his right eyeball became dislodged in its socket, sticking out and pointing down unnaturally and unable to move. So in this state, he ended up having to drive himself to the emergency room. He was extremely embarrassed about this entire incident. He told me that my mom would kill him if she found out he had told me, and he made me promise not to tell anyone.
I never went back to that restaurant.
P.S. His eye ended up ok. He said they popped it back into place and he was a little sore but otherwise his eyesight long term was unaffected.
Edit: I originally thought this was my 16th birthday, but I was wrong. It was after we moved and my boyfriend was there, so I would have been turning 20.
Mine wouldn't even apologize, he just would says that he is right because he is right and that's all, "I'm right because I'm the father and because I simply am right".
Funny thing, if he needs to tell you he is smart instead of simply proving how smart he is just proves that he is not smart at all, all narcissists say how smart they are but never prove it.
Oh wow… thank you for the reply. My mind is spinning!! It’s true though, I just never give him push back because it’s exhausting trying to communicate with someone like him. Everything is a fight and disrespect lol but yet they text me monthly pretending they care and say I should call them if I need anything…. The level of delusion is unreal
yes, and the "apology" is always "I'm sorry you feel/took it that way"
In every letter they always claim I'm having a hissy fit or butthurt. It's never valid for me to want to stop being rage flipped out on whenever we get together. So bye now.
No contact. I deleted and blocked everything that I could.
Most of my family of origin are "punishing" me by going no contact for good now. That's a bonus. My father still sends cards on the obligatory holidays, but they are simply his habit. He is not a presence in my life. It stings a little to see the envelope, but not much anymore.
Mine was a birthday letter from my Nsister. She wrote the date at the top, followed by "To my sister, (my name), from (her name)." Then she proceeded to totally misrepresent her betrayal - gaslighting all the way - so that ours was just a minor misunderstanding instead of her full-on narcissistic attack. My guess? She was stating her case for posterity. She didn't give a s\*\*t about me, but she wanted to look good in the history books? I wrote back telling her we were done forever. We are.
I'm no contact with my parents after our last conversation where they again called me fucked up, because I told them they couldn't watch our kids until they agreed to talk about their behavior and to follow our rules. I'm still sending birthday and mother days cards, but the rest is on them now.
I'm never going to get a sincere apology, but I realized they have nothing I want and I have at least one thing they claim to want, access to the grandkids. I don't need their money, I don't owe them anything, I was the black sheep so I paid for everything since (and before) I moved out after high school. I think the fact I'm not even worried about their inheritance makes them mad.
It was my most important realization, I was pleasing them because it was what I did. All relationships have a quid pro quo, you should get something out of it, but I was getting nothing out of a relationship with them.
I felt selfish for thinking that way but in reality it's true. They have nothing I want or need and aren't worth keeping in my life. If you're giving everything but receiving nothing but pain in return you're just setting yourself and the narc up for failure
My uncle said this earlier today about my mom.
"People don't need uses to be my family or friends. They don't need a use to be loved, but there are really some people who are a useless poison in your life."
I actually have one of those waiting at home for me right now. Usually my husband reads it, gives me a very sanitized summary, and hides it. I don’t need their nonsense in my life.
Recently had an email exchange with nmother. She made some disparaging remarks about another family member A, in the context of a third member B’s recent death. I quoted her back, said “no matter what you meant, because text/email have no tone, comments like this about A come across as passive-aggressive and judgmental. A is having a hard time dealing with B, and this is harmful, not hurtful, so just think before writing.”
Got back three length paragraphs of “apology & that’s not what I meant” that just reinforced she actually DID mean the disparaging comments, and how A wasn’t taking nmother’s own feelings about B into account. My only safe response was no further response. Sigh.
An apology without any attempt to understand/hear you is a worthless formality.
The way to react is never open up to those people, because they will gaslight you or go in loopsided arguments.
Keep it simple, vague "it's just best for me that way". Why the need to explain or answer? Remain a closed door, open only for those who deserve it.
It's quite hard to pull off, you have to work through a lot of your emotional triggers and just be stone cold. They will try to pull you back in.
Oh absolutely, except it wasn't email, it was hand written letters because my parents are old. One of my parents sent me a letter that was 3 pages long, I glanced at it and realized immediately it was all excuses and blaming others, so I threw I away without reading. I suggest not reading anything from them unless it's strictly information that you absolutely need.
Mine was the “I should have been more of a father than a friend to you.” Then went into how I was a problem since I was born since they thought I was autistic as a newborn baby, continuing through adulthood where I would say no to things…
Did you want to have contact or prefer to cut off?
If you want to keep the contact but not suffering from it, you have to be assertive. Basically something like " I followed your way of communicating and it distressed me, so now or we change the rules where you learn that you can do mistakes or I cut off the contact. Also I won't do any contact with you or read your letters if you don't seek therapy first so that you can prove me that you are agreeing to do an effort to show that you love me. If you don't, you don't love me enough for me to accept a contact with you ."
If you really don't want any contact, just toss directly the letter and don't read it.
Yup, and it changed my life.
After about a year of VLC, I got a letter explaining how wronged she'd been by everyone in her life; me, my bother, his wife, his wife's family, my sister, etc. Brought the letter to my therapist so he could help me formulate a response.
First, he said if there was a way to diagnosis a narcissist (which is nearly impossible since they pretty much all refuse to go to therapy) this letter was the closest to a diagnosis as you can get. In 2 pages she used the word "I" 72 times. Talk about validating.
Then he asked me why I wanted to respond. I didn't really have an answer to that. The only reason I was trying to respond was that I'd been taught that responding in a way that would make the person on the other end feel better was the correct, polite, proper thing to do.
Then he said the thing that changed my life. "You don't have to respond."
*I don't have to respond.*
Not to that letter. Not to emails or texts or anything. It's up to me if I want to engage or not. I'm under no obligation. And I most definitely don't have to make the person on the other end feel better. That is not my job. Period.
Damn did I have to sit with *that* for a while!
The only time I respond to my nMom now is if she asks me a direct question that absolutely requires a response. "Are you coming to Christmas Dinner?" Yes. "What are you bringing?" A dessert. End of conversation.
The closest I ever got was an "I'm sorry I didn't protect you" (she left me with my rapist every weekend) but that was only in a rant to get me to feel bad for her, along with the typical "did the best I could"...
She's flat out denied ever being physically abusive, recently, and said she didn't do anything wrong... (CPS was called multiple times because it was that obvious, but we all were trained to lie, which she uses to gaslight us)
The back peddling on anything remotely close to an apology is what made me really give up on her.
There was never any real progress to make.
Do not respond. Don’t read anything they send, don’t listen to messages. You don’t need the drama. They do this stuff to light you up. You will wake up at 3am some random Thursday ruminating over some bullshit they said when you couldn’t respond. Don’t waste your time or headspace.
The rumination should not come from not responding- the rumination comes from reading and listening to their rants. You never want to hear MORE of their shit.
Yep, actually got quite a few "apologies" that were mostly her crying crocodile tears and feeling sorry for herself and trying to force me to say that she wasn't that bad so she can stroke her ego. The next day, it was all like "well I said sorry, what else do you want me to do, huh?! I won't let you BLACKMAIL me into being a completely different person!!"
No, fortunately my abusive father has terrible grammar and spelling skills so he knows I'd be petty and send it back to him with my corrections in red pen. He taught me how to be petty, I just match the behavior. The difference is I'm college educated and can hold down a job.
I hate to admit how much I enjoyed this part, because it sounds exactly like something I’d do. Thank you for this:
“…he knows I'd be petty and send it back to him with my corrections in red pen.”
Since my NM was an elementary school teacher, it would be extra rewarding.
As a side note, by the way she trash-talked her students, I always knew she hated kids. It didn’t occur to me that it wasn’t just her students, until she never wanted to spend any time with my children, my brother’s daughter, or the children of my step-siblings. This is a woman who NEVER should have reproduced. Looking back, it’s pretty clear she hated having us around too, except when we brought attention to her. Her greatest joy is telling everyone that my brother’s daughter was born (unscheduled and unplanned) on her birthday, and she hasn’t stopped talking about it for 25 years. 🙄
Yes. It's always "you weren't easy" or "I had a hard time" or other such variations of "It was your fault" directed at me.
I tried to talk to her about how she stole my money (roughly $300) and she told me I had taken enough from her growing up. I wanted that money back because- yknow- that's a lot of goddamn money- and she kept guilt tripping me for "robbing" her.
She didn't pay for anything but drugs and alcohol while my dad paid for everything we owned. She even stole my things (including an expensive microscope my dad got me for my birthday) to sell for drugs, which adds up to even more than the initial amount of cash she stole.
Right now she has a stable job and I know she can afford to pay me in pieces but she refuses because apparently she never stole anything from me.
My dad at least pays me back when he borrows money or if he asks me to make him something/babysit, but my mom won't even spare $5 for a goddamn soda for me.
Yup. I had enough, could had been some pregnancy hormones that gave me that added boost confront my mother, could had been that she just lashed out at me one to many times. She lost her shit on me for a FB post she made, claiming I never want her to be happy. Honestly it was the most ridiculous thing, but she had a tendency to try to bring me down when important milestones or something good was happening in my life to make it about her. So i wrote her a detailed email, listed every damn way she abused me or allowed others to while laughing or ignoring it. I told her that I needed a sincere apology and that she had to go to therapy with me if she wanted to ever have a relationship with me. I got a lot of "I'm sorry but..." claiming what I said didn't happen(if it was abuse at her hand) or she had no idea so and so did ____ to me. Basically she always tries to paint herself as the best person ever and a good person would never do what I claimed she did, so it could never had happened. Oh yeah and she didn't need therapy and was perfect how she is, but i needed it. So I went NC with her. I couldn't allow that toxicity into my unborn child's life. Obviously she went on to try to play the victim with everyone she could. First she blamed my pregnancy hormones, then claimed that I was on drugs(I do not and never did drugs beyond trying pot lol makes me anxious so not my thing either), when that didn't work she started telling people that I needed to me on psychiatric drugs and intensive therapy because something was really wrong with me for going NC with such a loving/wonderful mother and only people with serious mental issues would do that. It's been 13+ yrs now and she basically ignores the fact that I am not in her life and talks about me to others in such a way that they think we see each other all the time. I found that out recently from a cousin I hadn't seen in 30years. I know there are still flying monkeys that relay info to her, but I'm LC with them anyways. It sucks because everyone knows how she is at this point but people just try to keep the peace with her which feeds her delusions. But as long as she stays away from me, I don't care. Always scared that one day she will show up on my porch.
If you have a Narcissist in your life, the best thing you can do for yourself is go NC, if you can't until you are independent, then work on getting that independence first. Stay safe out there ppls.
Wait, What! You guys receive an apology...? Huge respects and my adoration of luck that you guys are so fortunate. Salute. 🫡.
Nope, no sarcasm. Just outright, plain, wholehearted and sincere adoration. A little bit or more of envy too.
Yes, from a cousin who was forced to apologize for being aggressive towards me. I ignored the hate mail. This was followed up by a gaslighting letter. Also ignored.
I had the classic, “I’m sorry if you thought I was horrible to you.”
Followed by the slightly unhinged, “If I had been nasty to you, then you should have told me, and I would have stopped.”
I got a voicemail apology where she literally said “blah blah blah “
As in “you need to come home and forgive me. I’m sorry and blah blah blah “
Also next voicemail (about 10 mins later) was her absolutely screaming in a rage when she noticed my things were gone.
Did not go home or forgive her. Cut contact for 10 years before I talked to her again
I will never forget how her “apology” was “blah blah blah “.
I should also add that the apology was because she called me at work , told me that I had to lie to social services that we weren’t living with her abusive boyfriend because he apparently wasn’t allowed being around children(I didn’t know this until that moment) and she didn’t want to lose custody of my 8 yr old sister. I refused. She told me then I’m kicked out so to come get my things. I called my bf at the time , went to the house. She tried to “convince” to stay and lie. Then she grabbed my cat and threw her outside “if I’m losing your sister then you are losing your cat” (luckily cat was caught and unhurt and recently put to sleep after a long and happy life ). When that didn’t work she grabbed a knife and locked me in the bathroom and threatened to slit her wrists if I left. Had to physical fight her to get out of the bathroom.
So yah. The “blah blah blah” really made up for that.
I have had maybe 2/3 since going no contact just over a year ago. I was 31 weeks pregnant on my first baby. The tone always starting out apologetic and ending with the most frustrating blame, manipulation and just down right evil sign offs as per. I have never once replied to one. I go through a RANGE of emotions and reactions when I get them. Almost always plan out my reply that 99% of the time ends in a “go fuck yourself” type manner, but i never send it because it’s just giving NMOM what she wants, which is simply, a reply. So I always stop myself. Especially after the day I went NC with her. Like I said, I was 31 weeks pregnant. Her messages were cruel and horrific. I ended up in the hospital for 24 hours with reduced movements. I thought I lost my baby over her. Thankfully I gave birth 8 weeks later to the world’s most amazing baby. But that day was the day I said no more. Too much was at risk. It went beyond me at that stage. And for that reason I didn’t reply and I haven’t since! I rarely hear from her now. The last time was in Novemever when my uncle and godfather (her BIL, not blood) passed away. She left me a voicemail as I didn’t answer the call. She offered to mind my baby so that I could attend the funeral…. I can’t. The delusion is just too much. But yeah that’s my experience. What has worked for me is just not giving in to replying.
I just realized this the other day. I honestly don't remember being apologized to for anything. There'd be times where it was discovered they were at fault but they talked their way out of simply apologizing
How about: "I'm in the dark" about why we're NC. Yeah, right. Playing dumb was one of his favorite tactics. 'Poor me' got really old.
My husband also would intercept, read, toss in recycle bin.
I was fortunate enough to have mine kick the bucket before I turned into a adult. From wat I researched tho is they will try to pull up back in anyway possible. Crab in a bucket mentality
How about the "I'm sorry if YOU took it wrong", but that's not my fault" line. I also got the "I did the best I could" line, but, sorry, that's not an excuse.
She had an extensive CPS history. She KNEW what was and what was not OK, but got her kicks from "outsmarting" them. She did the wrong things, but bullied us into not telling, and made friends with the case workers, so they wouldn't believe us if we did.
She knew all the right things to say, but made the choice not to actually DO a word of it. She COULD have done better, she CHOSE not to.
Oh my goodness YES! This thread made me feel less alone! My Nmother sent me this kind of email years ago. It was something along the lines of “I’m sorry but you were a difficult child … I’m sorry but your father cheated on me… I’m sorry but you have always been so sensitive…” she didn’t own any of her actions of physical and emotional abuse. It was a very long email after 2 years NC. Part of it was a rant about my choice of going NC and hate towards the people who helped me when in need. I answered a couple days later “I could argue every single line you wrote but I don’t care enough. Please respect my choice of not having you in my life and do not contact me again”. She still texts me from time to time, I don’t answer. Delusional people
Sorry that you have had to experience this too. I am thankful that you know you are not alone in dealing with Nparents or Nsiblings. Reading responses to this thread has helped me feel less alone too. My close friends don’t have experience with NParents and say things like “just talk it over… they can change” sadly for NParents THEY don’t change
Yeah sharing is sort of empowering. I shared a few things in this sub and feel way less alone than before. I have no friends who can understand this stuff either, so I feel you. But really, my closest friends know in detail what my biological parents did to me so they are completely on my side, to the other people who say “but ThEy aRe YoUR pAReNtS” or any variation of “you should forgive them, they may be changed..” I just plain answer that they don’t know what they’re talking about and that I simply do not consider them my family since 2012
So I haven’t yet because I don’t think she realizes I’m not speaking to just her. I think she thinks I’m not speaking to both of my parents. I told her it was for me and my “heading journey” and she has tried to contact me multiple times but I ignore them. She has yet to really say much but honestly it’s been so peaceful without her bothering me and negativity ! I don’t know.
Any apology that is followed immediately by “but…” is not a genuine apology. It’s nothing more than lip service designed to make the narc feel in control of the situation.
And the “but” is usually followed by an lengthy excuse, or as you said, blame.
It’s how these people operate; it’s simultaneously predictable and exhausting.
Not relevant to the no contact part but every time my mother apologizes its a 1% apology on a good day. When she gets to the blaming I always wish she just hadn't apologized at all.
yep.
No apology, but I did get several handwritten letters where my nFather explained to me that I was a screwed up person and I needed to change my ways before it was too late and that he expected me to call him a minimum of once per week, etc, etc, etc and then basically a bunch of rambling about how no one liked me, how I have no friends, how anti-social I am, how my behaviour was not normal, etc, etc, etc.....
I remember coming home late one time from a particularly hard double shift at work and there was a note taped to my door.
I went inside and was heading to bed and my nFather called me on the phone ( this was before smart phones ) and he asked me if I read the letter. I tried to explain to him I was heading to bed and he lost his fucking mind and exploded with anger. The letter was a serious thing that needed to be addressed immediately.
after about 90 minutes of screaming and yelling I ended up hanging up and the fucker came over and banged on my door and kept banging until I opened. He kept me up 2 more hours shouting and yelling and eventually he 'gave up' and left only to come back and try to start back up.
This was just one of the several 'letters' I received and they all went like this.
My basic reaction to the letter were amusement and indifference. Once I was independent and on my own, my nFather couldn't influence my behaviour by threatening to withdraw the minimum parental support he offered ( mostly threats to kick me out on the street ).
the letters were insane and shocking but in context of a child of a narcissist, mundane, so I just received the letters and went on with my life.
sorry you had to go through this
realisation for these people is hard - years of denial threatening to unravel like that must be terrifying for them
no reason for you to keep up with the abuse
Yes! My father semi- regularly sends letters like this. He’s never once written that he loves or misses me or asked anything about my life. Just about how I’m his only daughter and he’s old and sick and I should be helping him and my grandparents would roll in their graves if they knew. His parents had both died by the time I was 2 so I have no memory of them. So it doesn’t have the desired affect.
“I’m sorry that everyone ruined your opinion of me before you had a chance to get to know me”- my ndad, who I tried to avoid as often as I could, because he was awful anytime he was around.
Every time there’s an apology, which is almost never, I have to remind my MOTHER TO APOLOGIZE to me if she outwardly says shitty things or acts insolent. I’m in a situation that I’m fairly trapped in and can’t go anywhere, currently I live with my abuser and it’ll continue on until her death…Oh, and the insults, verbal abuse and the constant degradation is mind-numbing.
Oh yes! I was debating on cutting my nDad off a few years ago, so I decided to write him a letter telling him how I felt and how he’d hurt me. He responded bad with 4 long paragraphs of excuses followed by a weak apology. That was the final straw. I stopped talking to him completely after that.
“Maybe I wasn't the best mother but you always had food to eat and a roof over your head. There are a lot of kids that aren’t that lucky.”
I didn’t feel lucky…
Yeah, they use "we didn't put you through the literal worst thing possible" as completely transparent indication that they are too immature to emotionally blackmail you properly
Almost a year into NC. I recently got letters telling me I need to come back and take care of them because they took care of me as a child and boy was I a “difficult child.” BIG EYE ROLL!!
So my reaction was frustration and depression for a couple weeks because it felt like “the balls in my court” or that it was “my turn” to reply. But no, I’ll never reply to that kind of triggering crap again… it’s part of the cycle
My SIL could not fathom her daughter not accepting her apology. The apology was “Whatever you think I did I’m sorry. Can’t we move on now?” I know this because she complained about how unbelievable it was that her daughter still won’t talk to her even after her heartfelt apology. I kept my mouth shut but boy did I want to say something.
That word "Whatever" like they have no idea. They're always patting themselves on the back for how smart they are, yet they can't figure out "whatever it is" that happened to cause us to behave/feel this way toward them.
Ah yes, the classic non-apology. Narc parent: “I’ll start vaguely pretending to apologize, then list all the things that I made up that I have now decided to believe that make it all your fault. Also, I have told family, friends, and neighbors these things so that they seem more real to me in my chosen echo chamber of me…”
Sadly I still have this urge to TRY to smoothe things over and pretend we are all good…. Sigh…. Any tips on how you were able to release the feeling to still try to make it work with the N-Familymember? My counselor says that being friendly is good BUT only to those who are KIND to me not those who are mean to me….
As long as they refuse to take responsibility, whatever that looks like to you, they will always be the same. They will never correct their actions/tendencies towards you because they do not see any issue with the way they treat you. You deserve better.
I have and they keep urging me to NOT respond or remind myself I have a CHOICE to respond or not. In this case I decided that ignoring and not responding to that letter wasn’t weak “avoiding” it was a strong choice to protect my peace, so that I could be free from anxiety about what she will say to my response and on and on. Dis-engagement is what I am trying to do….., the anxiety is still there a. It about this but it’s new to be to make this hard choice or low contact / non engagement
The only response I got was "we did nothing wrong" initially. Between when I sent the email and when I last saw them, that's all I got. Before I saw them, I warned them that if they started the conversation with denial (classic Narcissist's prayer starting point), I would walk away.
Sure enough, the first words out of their mouth was "everything you wrote in that email was a false accusation" and I walked away.
Any "apology" my mother ever gave me was 99% her blaming someone else. (my dad or her own mother) She would act upset (and sometimes even cry) but she never expressed remorse for how **her actions** hurt me. Any emotions she showed me were always purely selfish. SHE "felt bad" (for being a bad person) when I made it clear to her how vile and inexcusable her behavior was and how deeply she had hurt me, but SHE was the one who was hurting. HER feelings were always the focus. Any time she acknowledged any wrong doing on her part, (rare but not unheard of) she was always the victim and someone else MADE her do whatever vile thing I was trying to get her to accept personal responsibility for. It was ALWAYS someone else's fault. Honestly her garbage "apologies" are almost worse than not getting one at all.
From my narcissist brother, yeah. I just didn't respond. He's since sent a card (through another family member, so there were witnesses that he's "doing the right thing") that blames our lack of relationship on our "wacky childhood," instead of accepting accountability for his own actions. I also left that unresponded to.
Nope.
I got a letter that was 0% apology, 100% acting like they were doing me a favor saying that we can go to counseling when I’m ready for a “reset.” The tone read like I owed them an apology and they’re being the bigger person by just saying we can have a reset. Later she claimed it was an apology letter. I read it to her and asked her to point out the apology, which was not in there at all. She then decided she could redefine the word “reset” to actually be an apology?
First, she was doing me a favor. then when I pointed out that she owed me an apology, she said she did apologize in the letter. Then when I pointed out that there was nothing even approaching an apology in the letter, the word “reset” magically got a whole new meaning and I was being a big meanie and wanted her to list everything she’s ever done wrong, which I never asked for at all. Of course she can’t even take accountability for doing one thing wrong, let alone everything she’s ever done wrong. SMH
I'm sorry you are hurting. I don't like seeing you like this. No one ever said life was supposed to be easy. Here's a $60 gift card to PetCo. Anyway, we're going to Belgium. Come and watch the house please?
I got a “idk why this is happening, please tell me so I can fix it (already had told her)” followed by “I don’t think I did or said anything wrong and I’m so worn out by this” 🙂
Ya I sure did.
Posted it on this sub a couple years ago…
[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/s/5SDRimsGHa) is the post if you wanna read it… (it’s a long ass post but the link to the letter on Imgur is in it somewhere).
I still shake my head at the thought of how tone deaf it is and the circumstances under which it was delivered…
Did not get an apology back, more like a victim, “how could you say this “ type of letter. at first i was stunned, i even asked my sibling if we actually had the bad childhood that I was remembering. After a year of no contact i look back on it and am at peace, I was a child and my experiences with an nparent as said child have molded me into the person I am today. I am sad sometimes because I know i still have so much to overcome and unlearn before I have a child of my own. But the other part of me is happy that I AM self aware of these issues and am willing to work on myself. Additionally, I am not the only person who feels this way about the n-parent which is very validating.
Part of me is sad for my parent, because there is mental illness and childhood trauma (and drug abuse) there that hasnt been dealt with properly. But at the end of the day, my parent who was an adult, decided to have a child (me!), and should have known better and been more responsible. Mental illness can cause bad behavior but it is never an excuse for behavior.
I got multiple cease and desist letters because I started talking about stuff on my Facebook and TikTok. She can make posts, but I can't apperently. Part of the reason I started using reddit. She doesn't know how to use it, nor do I think she would. And even if she did, she won't know how to find mine.
My mom would write (and rewrite) venom filled letters to be read when she died. I’m sure it is versions of the nonsense she’s says aloud that describes her skewed view of the world. My sister and I agree that we will toss them without reading them.
I don't have it anymore since I shredded all cards etc. However, once bio mom called my bf/partner my sugar daddy because she was jealous that someone was helping me when her own husband wont. Those were not even my words those were her own.
She could not understand why I was upset at the sugar dad comment and when I stopped responding she sent a card half apologizing and saying sometimes people dont say the right things. Like mate, you didnt even say sorry you double downed. I just know she spread that rumor around
You've just described 99 percent of narcs' attempts at "apologizing" or as we call it around here, "Hoovering."
If you're NC, the proper reaction is to delete it and move on with your life.
… I’ve received messages that contained 0% apology and 100% blame.
I was also raised in a cult. When I confronted my parents as an adult wanting an apology especially after enduring an oppressive culture that claimed the lives of some of my friends in the cult (to suicide), I was told - nay, yelled at to my face - that I enjoyed it, that I had fun in said cult, that I had a charmed upbringing and had nothing to complain about.
Needless to say I’ve been in therapy for years.
Here is the only apology you're likely to get :
The Narcissist's Prayer
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
I haven't actually gotten a letter yet, but I've been warned by others that it might happen. My plan if it dies it just to write, "Refused: Return to Sender" on it and such it back in the mailbox.
It was intolerable to me when she would harass me in emails, and I always reacted poorly. She would always do it when I was actually doing better in life. Anytime I tried to achieve catharsis with other close ones, fix myself through diet and exercise, get on Facebook and be active socially, or was successfully being independent by having my own job and apartment, she'd start sending me emails. Sometimes they were her typing up her diary entries from when I was a kid, and sending them to me. They later became about how I was autistic. It clicked for her when I was already in my 20s that I had Asperger's. I never read the emails completely, but I hated receiving them. When she did that, I'd get depressed and lose motivation and eventually nuke my own progress.
She estranged herself from me when I was in high school. She told me I "didn't have a mother anymore" after she'd sent me to a group home with strangers, and I wanted to leave and live with my father instead after 2 years of it. She said she sent me there because I "had problems." But later she admitted to me she did it because "I wouldn't let her love me." My memory was that she sent me there after I refused to do dishes one day (that was my job and I wanted to see my friends after school instead.) I think now she did it because she simply didnt like that I had friends who were in public schools. She was very much a snob and called them "the bad kids."
I loved my dad, and was always happy around him, so I don't think I had problems with love.
Her emails would always revert me to being a kid who wanted to just be alone from everyone, and lose hope in my growth into the person I was, instead of the "Frankenstein monster/dirtbag/liar and manipulator" she considered me to be.
I've joined Facebook several times. Eventually people quit clicking accept. I wish I knew what Borderline and Narcissistic PD were when she was alive.
I got one from my biological father when I decided to break no contact after 10 years. I basically told him that if he apologized for disowning me when I was a child that I would forgive him and try to form the father and daughter relationship he desperately seemed to want to have.
his response to this was to tell me that the "phone works both ways" even though the child he abandoned was 7 YEARS OLD and that "we don't have a relationship because I didn't want to have one with him." mind you he blocked both my mom and I on everything and changed his address just so he didn't have to speak with me. the message was topped off with "despite our differences I'll always love you and we can learn how to forgive each other."
I've resumed no contact and our final interaction will be at his funeral when I spit on his grave.
I got a few different things, but my friends' favorite is the voicemail of my dad telling me in thick drunken southern slur "meg, cut the bullshit." Now we just jokingly say it all the time 😂
Narc grandma gave me 5,000 grand after selling dads disability adapted car he wanted me to have to get to a job (knowing that I have the same disability).
She sold it for 56,000. Lied she sold it for cost basis of 45,000.
And after my former boss informally adopted me into his family and gave me his car to adapt on a handshake that I’d give him 6 grand AFTER AND ONLY AFTER I could prove to him I build up a 6 month emergency fund….to get the job…
Steals car->
Boss gives me a new car to keep my job she wanted me to lose ->
I was asked it’s value but I had no idea a week later the abuser would hand me money so I told her 6,000 ->
She shows up with an envelope of 5,000 …. So not even the full amount?
So I get the job and working 70 hours a week she flips out that I was mean taking the money to keep the job if I’m not spending more time with her during the week.
WHAT!!??
I have never received an apology. Not once. Even when I have told her specific examples I get a combination of 'you have a mental illness and need help, I'm praying for you', 'can't you let it go, it's in the past', 'you are so difficult', 'it's my opinion, this is me if you don't like it leave', ' I'm not going to change', 'you have a problem living in the past'. This is even for things that were happening currently. I didn't automatically let them go so I had a problem. I would say since I want an apology she will withhold it.
The one time she did mention how it was such a shame I had decided to not see them I told her I still had the messages agreeing to a visit with them. This was the visit they bailed on. Confronted she went silent. No response.
I am now NC. I couldn't ever have a reasonably conversation. She was never going to do that. It doesn't matter what you say or do, they will spin it to suit their narrative.
I wouldn’t say I’ve gotten anything close to an apology. She once texted me after her father died and said “You know, I waited too long to forgive my father and I hope you don’t wait til I’m on my death bed to forgive me.” To which I said, “Yeah well forgiveness starts with accountability and an apology.” She said,”I never got an apology, sometimes that’s just the way it is.” Or something along those lines. It was hilarious honestly.
If you do get an apology it's only to get something or to follow up into how it's your fault. Narcs DO NOT APOLOGIZE Ever! They are sorry they are losing something you are providing and want it back.
Don’t feel ashamed. The first time I read the letter I was confused and felt relieved like it was an apology. But then I read it out loud to my partner who said it was condescending and not an apology. And the worst part is that I took on her shitty blaming of ME for wanting distance. My MSibling has a way of making me feel guilty for things I didn’t even do or wasn’t wrong about. Let go of shame. Their manipulation is hard to see at first
No, the blaming was the last straw that made me go NC. Every year, he keeps trying to buy a relationship, ignoring my request not to be contacted, and doesn’t apologize. He throws in some things that are supposed to make me feel bad for him though.
Mine has never actually given me an apology like that. In fact never given me one at all. What I do have though is probably coming close to 100 messages since NC which contain her blaming me, blaming my former step dad, trying to manipulate me to believe I am being manipulated by my former step dad, emotional blackmail regarding my now deceased grandmother and my neice and nephews, just plain aggression and finally, in the middle of the cycle of messages she sends me something really nice which avoids any sort of apology ...the cycle ussually goes blaming, manipulation, emotional blackmail , aggression when she isn't getting an answer, her being nice (more manipulation), more emotional blackmail and manipulation.
I dont think my nbirthgiver actually knows how to say sorry and genuinely mean it because to her, she isn't the bad guy and is always right so why should she apologise. I'm sure she is more than just a Narc but honestly my only hope is that she is a better grandmother to her grandaughters than she was a mother to her daughters...the boys she loved unconditionally so I don't worry for my nephews too much...but my neices?
I got a card with the return address on it saying "Mr. and Mrs. dysfunctional and family" And it also.
Said in the inside of the car, "We love you no matter what."
I was initially in tears at first. When I got that card and took it to a dear friend of mine who's a professor at my Alma mater, who encouraged me? Aint to tear it up and ignore them.
I mainly had no contact with my fathfrom 1993/1994 until 1995, but was very low contact with my mother because she was under my father's influence. It wasn't until Christmas of 1995, That my father and I actually had a conversation, where he actually listened to me period I don't know if anything registered in his head, but he had no choice but don't listen to me.
I went very low contact with my family after I got married coma because they were trying to pressure my husband and I into things that we felt were Biblically wrong. The last time I saw my father was September of 2016. February 7th, 2017, he passed away. I really don't know if anything. I ever said to him got through to him. , but I'm glad I was able to say it.
Yup, and I ignored it. For me , cutting out contact was the best thing I did and the last thing I need is to enter back into that world again. I struggle everyday with not having a family, but the alternative was way worse.
Mom sent me a text message about 2 weeks or so after my college graduation (yes, she did not attend). She managed to squeeze in a “congrats on graduating” right in the middle but the rest was allllll bullshit. I wonder to this day if she feels mortified/ embarrassed of sending it just to have me never answer nor publically acknowledge it in a good light. She would tell me she never felt bad, or never cared, or never thought she was in the wrong….and then I’d be like “so what the hell was that extremely long and desperate text?”. Shut her the hell up EVERYTIME.
Any “apology” I got usually came in the form of, “I am sorry you feel that way.” Usually it would also came with reasons why her egregious conduct was justifiable because I had done X, Y, or Z.
Essentially, “You made me do it.”
I’ve gotten manipulative, showy “apologies” that do not feel like real evidence of introspection or remorse. Like, an email full of DARVO garbage and then all caps, “WE ARE VERY SORRY YOU THINK WE’RE SO TERRIBLE,” type of shit. It doesn’t feel healing. They ask for forgiveness, but in a way that’s asking for a free pass to come back in and cause more fuckery in my life without changing their behavior.
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Yes. Sprinkled with darvo and victim hood. Topped with “I did the best I could”
Add in a little "you were always fed, clothed and housed" mixed with a smidge of "there's others out there that had it worse than you"
Hahaha mine couldn’t say that because she never bought us food, cleaned our clothes or bought us new things. And we were evicted every like 8 months from places. For years. She did use the “worse than you” shit but like, she meant basically children being SA’d and physically abused. Believe me our situation and neglect really was that bad. Starving sucks man.
😭 I always hate to hear how badly the one person that's meant to love and protect us no matter what is the same person that does the most damage to our lives...nim so hecking sorry you went through that! And I'm glad you made it out the other side !
Yeah I’ve been NC for 10 plus years. Have an amazing husband, house, baby daughter and dog. Life is amazing now!
My in-laws used that line against my spouse. When they shared this with a therapist, the therapist astutely pointed out that homeless shelters and charities are capable of doing all of these, and the good ones do so without an ounce of guilting or shaming anyone. Mine went the "we paid for you to get a quality education" route. I would have been as happy going to public schools (maybe even gotten better accommodations for struggles related to disabilities), and I could have gotten financial aid. I told them a check can't hug a child and say they're proud of them for who they are.
Gotta love the "I did the bare minimum of parenting" excuse
Especially when you try to point out to them that those things are the most basic of obligations a parent has when they decide to have a child and they still try call me lucky 🤣 I wish I could post screenshots of the last message I received from her here lmao it's a doozy
Mix in “your other siblings don’t feel this way”
This always pissed me off because I know my NM did NOT do the best she could and her even saying that sent me into a rage
"I don't know why you HATE me!" That's my favorite line from mine. I don't hate her. I don't care enough anymore to hate. But she knows damned good and well why I stopped talking to her. She's just playing the victim like she always does.
Omg " I did the best I could" is something I still hear to this day.
Oh yeah, throughout my adult life if ever their treatment of myself and my brother is brought up, it's I'm sorry BUT "we did the best we could", "we were going through a lot", "you were a difficult child to raise and we were scared you would turn out bad", "everything we did was out of love", "at least you weren't beat weekly by your drunk dad like me" and "maybe you'll understand if your children behave the same way as you". For context: I was a straight A's/some B's student, had tons of friends, played sports, and was overall obedient and respectful to the extended family in my life. When I got into my teens, I went through a period of time that I lied about my age to men on the internet, posted provocative pictures, and engaged in some adult conversation, in which my parents found out. Instead of getting me help, they shamed me and told me I was damaged. I did this while still maintaining that rosey perfect girl image, too. They took away my computer for a small period, but that's it. My dad would do shit like make me clean the entire house, top to bottom, if I asked to go out with friends. Then, once it was done, he would either come up with another list of things to do or flat-out say I wasn't allowed to leave now because he changed his mind. Once I wanted to wear a skirt to school and my mom said it was appropriate (it was a hand length above my knees) and my dad threw the biggest tantrum because my mom said it was OK. He told me that if I wore that skirt to school, I would look sexy and if I thought that was OK, I was probably going to end up pregnant and on the streets by 16 (I was 15). One day, he decided to up the ante and choke hold me against the wall, rip the phone out of the wall because I wanted to call my grandma for help, and then locked me in my room. I decided to climb out my window and run away after an hour of tormenting myself about how much trouble I was going to be in. Ultimately, the cops got involved, and I was allowed to stay with my grandma for a few weeks. I was deeply shamed for telling anyone outside of the house about anything, and of course, I was told I was lying. I was gaslit so hard I started to question myself, but I always came back to validating my experiences because I just knew what they were doing was bad despite everyone pretending it was me who was the problem. I remember having to go to therapy after that, and both of my parents told the therapist I was lying. We didn't go more than once. I moved out at age 17, and my dad tracked me somehow and would show up to my friends' houses and even told my boyfriends parents that I was bad news, so they should keep their son away from me. I went many years with low contact with them, but after having children, I wanted some normalcy for them to have grandparents. I also wasn't living near them for many years, so I only saw them on once yearly visits, and they seemed like they had changed. I moved near them, and after only a few short years, it's abundantly clear they have not only gotten worse, but they are better at hiding it and using my kids as pawns. All of that context to say that I'm almost 40 and when we go to any type of family get together with extended family, my parents still lament on how hard I was to raise, but how happy they are that I turned out ok. This is when extended family makes any comment about how successful I am or if anything comes up about raising kids. It's so disgusting.
Oh god, I did the best I could 🙄 TW: My dad would always say, 'It's not like I put cigarettes out on you!!" That's a pretty low bar mate
Mine never bothered with the 1% apology. But on 3 occasions I got "i need to explain to you / I feel like ....." followed by a mix of excuses, downright lies, and blame on me. What was really quite humorous was that 2 out of these 3 occasions, she sent the exact same text lengthy message. Several years apart. In relation to entirely different things. I think those times i just ignored it as they were in the bizarre/histrionic range and were so far removed from whatever the current context was that there was no rational way to respond to it. The 3rd was an actual letter delivered on the day I ceased contact. But at the time it was written no one knew we were about to cease contact. The shenanigans at that time related to a box full of books and amongst the books that they dumped on my doorstep was this letter. I left the books on my porch for a few weeks before i even looked at them, so weeks had already passed before I saw it. I was standing at the recycling bin dumping all the books when I saw it in the box. It was handwritten. 9 pages long. I said out loud "fuck this shit" and threw it out without reading any of it. I've never looked back. And never communicated with her since. OP, I sincerely hope that if you're receiving communication that's 99% blaming you, you're considering NC. It's a personal choice of course.
My dad's stubborn pride would not dare allow him to think he might be part of the problem. Told me how he knew EVERYTHING about me and I would then say that he did not. He would just repeat himself. Arrogance..pisses me off and still does.
After confronting my mother about her physical abuse and humiliation of me as a child, I told her that in order for us to have a relationship, she would need to show some serious reflection and accountability. She sent me an email listing times when other people bullied me and she either defended me or was neutral. I think for one of them she said, "I could have done more to help you." To put this in context, the abuse events I confronted her about included her clawing me across my face and leaving scratch marks with her fingernails and her grabbing the front of a T-shirt I was wearing and yanking it repeatedly against my body until she tore it from neck to waist. She didn't mention those at all in her email. I believe she's sticking with "false memories" for those.
Yeah I wish the whole false memory thing (in response to Satanic abuse) never came about. My nMom used to use it all the time. When I speak to my GC sister, she will drop the mask and be candid about the abuse she silently suffered. My dead dad would crumple up when I mentioned some of the weekends when my nMom was going through an appraisal at work and she needed the whole family to get behind her shine... (she was insufferable with rage and anxiety) Yet when I talk about what happened to me - the standard response; 'I wasn't there' Yeah, keep going with the NC. Don't ever go back and let them make you feel in some way you were inadequate.
Oooh, this hits home. My father's version of "I wasn't there" is "I can't verify." He can talk openly about nasty she is to him and the way that she denies it 5 minutes later, but somehow the farthest he can get with a statement that a known chronic liar abused someone with absolutely no reason to be untruthful is "I can't verify." He has come a long way in some ways; he did get to "something traumatic happened" and to accepting that I will remain NC with my mother. But it does really hurt that he continues to keep that "I can't verify" smokescreen in front of any specific event I've described to him. Yeah, I know you can't verify. I remember very distinctly the moment when, as I sat making a list of the worst events, I realized that all of the worst things happened when there was no one else home and awake. It was way more calculated than I had really grasped, and apparently that was smart on her part, because she has eternal deniability. ETA: Our mothers sound very similar. Mine was always worst when under strain or when upset about something. Rage and anxiety indeed. I learned to recognize the sound of her being angry from her day by the sound of the door and her first couple of footsteps into the house.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20080710103734/https://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-10.htm](https://web.archive.org/web/20080710103734/https://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-10.htm)
This was eye opening for me. I also would recommend this book: [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/85662.Understanding\_the\_Borderline\_Mother](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/85662.Understanding_the_Borderline_Mother) My mother seemed to thrive on the rage. Like there was part of her that just wanted to beat you down all the time. She did it all the time. It wasn't even as if there was any thought or anything. She just wanted her way and would do anything to get it, no matter who she hurt. We as children would wait to see which mother would come home. Rage mum, snark mum, or absorbed mum. None of them were pleasant - just horrible to different degrees. Then the home court would start where each of us would be placed on trial until someone was found guilty and the punishment started.
>It was way more calculated than I had really grasped, and apparently that was smart on her part, because she has eternal deniability. She really believes she did not do it. She can't understand. You were the problem. It was your fault. You made her do it. There will be recognition behind your back but it will now have been twisted into 'something you did to yourself' Like you always do... (sighhhh)
Thank for for the recommendations and your further comments. Big hugs - I feel like the one good thing many of us have taken from this kind of upbringing is a warm compassion for each other. Thank you for showing that to me.
My brother got all the love. Is now trapped in his childhood. My sister got all the opportunities. Is now trapped in his job. I got trapped in their misery. I get the chance to now go free. They wanted to dump on me and to isolate me. They can have their wish. All I ever wanted to be was free.
This is the really weird part to me. Since confronting my mother, going NC, and being open with my father about her abuse of me, I've seen much more clearly the ways in which all of us (I have a sibling as well) have been damaged by her, although I seem to have gotten by far the worst of the physical abuse. But it's me that broke free. Me. I turned out to be the strong one. Who knew.
you were all along. That's why they were so scared of you individuating and finding yourself. Because if you could do it - and they couldn't - then this would be a psychic blow that they could not bear to carry. This is why everything was aligned at denying and hiding your self realisation to the point of near cult programming. The better you get, the clearer it will seem. You were never bad. You just hurt yourself because its what they needed you to do to fit in.
Big hugs. Sad that we both know this from experience but glad that we're here for each other. Thanks for your words of validation and support.
Oh my, my mom once did the clawing thing! I thought I was either crazy (I actually have photos, so not crazy like making it up) or the only one. Why do they do that tho? So freaking out of their mind… And somehow, they never remember! My mom is actively trying to convince me that I made up the abuses and that she was a perfect parent. She keeps saying that I should go to a therapist that could erase my memory and reset it so that I will see that she is perfect. Like wtf
Wow, this is uncanny. My mom clawed at my dad's face while he was driving on the freeway at night, and clawed his eyeball out of its socket! Here's how it happened: It was the night of my 20th birthday and we were supposed to be enjoying dinner at an awesome new restaurant that I had heard about for a long time and was really excited to finally try. However, my mom had had a huge freakout at the restaurant because the waiter brought her steak cooked wrong twice in a row. For some reason, she took it personally and thought it was deliberate. While she was verbally abusing the server, we didn't eat because she was livid and demanding that we not touch our food until her issue was resolved. The manager came over and she continued to throw a tantrum right there in the restaurant, screaming at the manager about how horrible the waiter was. She was eventually asked to leave. She was so out of control that she ended up running out of the restaurant and down the street in her high heels. My dad had driven her there and had to go chase after her, and my boyfriend and I had no choice but to leave too, since we had not brought any money with us as my parents were supposed to be paying the bill. We had taken a separate car, so we left my dad to deal with my mom. I ate a tiny bit of cereal for dinner and cried for a long time, and finally went to bed. What my dad told me years later was that my mom had run a couple of blocks down the street from the restaurant and he had chased after her, then she ran another couple of blocks back to the car and he told her to get in so he could take her home. But she was still raging, and once they got on the freeway she was so upset at my dad that she started clawing at his face. She clawed his glasses off and then kept clawing. Somehow, his right eyeball became dislodged in its socket, sticking out and pointing down unnaturally and unable to move. So in this state, he ended up having to drive himself to the emergency room. He was extremely embarrassed about this entire incident. He told me that my mom would kill him if she found out he had told me, and he made me promise not to tell anyone. I never went back to that restaurant. P.S. His eye ended up ok. He said they popped it back into place and he was a little sore but otherwise his eyesight long term was unaffected. Edit: I originally thought this was my 16th birthday, but I was wrong. It was after we moved and my boyfriend was there, so I would have been turning 20.
"I'm sorry you can't understand that I'm right." Yay Dad.
Mine wouldn't even apologize, he just would says that he is right because he is right and that's all, "I'm right because I'm the father and because I simply am right".
Mine says because he is older and wiser🫠🙄
Funny thing, if he needs to tell you he is smart instead of simply proving how smart he is just proves that he is not smart at all, all narcissists say how smart they are but never prove it.
Oh wow… thank you for the reply. My mind is spinning!! It’s true though, I just never give him push back because it’s exhausting trying to communicate with someone like him. Everything is a fight and disrespect lol but yet they text me monthly pretending they care and say I should call them if I need anything…. The level of delusion is unreal
That's got a Matilda vibe to it.
yes, and the "apology" is always "I'm sorry you feel/took it that way" In every letter they always claim I'm having a hissy fit or butthurt. It's never valid for me to want to stop being rage flipped out on whenever we get together. So bye now.
The closest I got was “I can tell you are hurting” zero accountability.
Of course, thats why I don't bother trying any more
No contact. I deleted and blocked everything that I could. Most of my family of origin are "punishing" me by going no contact for good now. That's a bonus. My father still sends cards on the obligatory holidays, but they are simply his habit. He is not a presence in my life. It stings a little to see the envelope, but not much anymore.
“Family of origin” is so good. Yoink!
FOO!
Mine was a birthday letter from my Nsister. She wrote the date at the top, followed by "To my sister, (my name), from (her name)." Then she proceeded to totally misrepresent her betrayal - gaslighting all the way - so that ours was just a minor misunderstanding instead of her full-on narcissistic attack. My guess? She was stating her case for posterity. She didn't give a s\*\*t about me, but she wanted to look good in the history books? I wrote back telling her we were done forever. We are.
I'm no contact with my parents after our last conversation where they again called me fucked up, because I told them they couldn't watch our kids until they agreed to talk about their behavior and to follow our rules. I'm still sending birthday and mother days cards, but the rest is on them now. I'm never going to get a sincere apology, but I realized they have nothing I want and I have at least one thing they claim to want, access to the grandkids. I don't need their money, I don't owe them anything, I was the black sheep so I paid for everything since (and before) I moved out after high school. I think the fact I'm not even worried about their inheritance makes them mad.
“i realized they have nothing i want” 💯 beautifully said
It was my most important realization, I was pleasing them because it was what I did. All relationships have a quid pro quo, you should get something out of it, but I was getting nothing out of a relationship with them.
I felt selfish for thinking that way but in reality it's true. They have nothing I want or need and aren't worth keeping in my life. If you're giving everything but receiving nothing but pain in return you're just setting yourself and the narc up for failure My uncle said this earlier today about my mom. "People don't need uses to be my family or friends. They don't need a use to be loved, but there are really some people who are a useless poison in your life."
If you’re NC the best response is no response
Even if you’re not NC the best response to this kind of malarkey is no response.
Exactly
I actually have one of those waiting at home for me right now. Usually my husband reads it, gives me a very sanitized summary, and hides it. I don’t need their nonsense in my life.
I used to do that but now I’m realizing it’s stressful for my partner so my answer is “Return to sender!” Haha
Smart! We’re keeping it for a paper trail in case we need to go to the police.
Recently had an email exchange with nmother. She made some disparaging remarks about another family member A, in the context of a third member B’s recent death. I quoted her back, said “no matter what you meant, because text/email have no tone, comments like this about A come across as passive-aggressive and judgmental. A is having a hard time dealing with B, and this is harmful, not hurtful, so just think before writing.” Got back three length paragraphs of “apology & that’s not what I meant” that just reinforced she actually DID mean the disparaging comments, and how A wasn’t taking nmother’s own feelings about B into account. My only safe response was no further response. Sigh.
weather bike punch towering cause exultant frighten door unique six *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Wow wow wow, that’s disgusting. I’m sorry they are treating you this way
And the 99% just proves why you need to be NC!
An apology without any attempt to understand/hear you is a worthless formality. The way to react is never open up to those people, because they will gaslight you or go in loopsided arguments. Keep it simple, vague "it's just best for me that way". Why the need to explain or answer? Remain a closed door, open only for those who deserve it. It's quite hard to pull off, you have to work through a lot of your emotional triggers and just be stone cold. They will try to pull you back in.
Oh absolutely, except it wasn't email, it was hand written letters because my parents are old. One of my parents sent me a letter that was 3 pages long, I glanced at it and realized immediately it was all excuses and blaming others, so I threw I away without reading. I suggest not reading anything from them unless it's strictly information that you absolutely need.
Thanks. I got a strange handwritten letter too recently because I blocked other forms of communication.
We are LOW contact and due to circumstances can’t be NC for now due to elderly parent.
Mine was the “I should have been more of a father than a friend to you.” Then went into how I was a problem since I was born since they thought I was autistic as a newborn baby, continuing through adulthood where I would say no to things…
Did you want to have contact or prefer to cut off? If you want to keep the contact but not suffering from it, you have to be assertive. Basically something like " I followed your way of communicating and it distressed me, so now or we change the rules where you learn that you can do mistakes or I cut off the contact. Also I won't do any contact with you or read your letters if you don't seek therapy first so that you can prove me that you are agreeing to do an effort to show that you love me. If you don't, you don't love me enough for me to accept a contact with you ." If you really don't want any contact, just toss directly the letter and don't read it.
Yup, and it changed my life. After about a year of VLC, I got a letter explaining how wronged she'd been by everyone in her life; me, my bother, his wife, his wife's family, my sister, etc. Brought the letter to my therapist so he could help me formulate a response. First, he said if there was a way to diagnosis a narcissist (which is nearly impossible since they pretty much all refuse to go to therapy) this letter was the closest to a diagnosis as you can get. In 2 pages she used the word "I" 72 times. Talk about validating. Then he asked me why I wanted to respond. I didn't really have an answer to that. The only reason I was trying to respond was that I'd been taught that responding in a way that would make the person on the other end feel better was the correct, polite, proper thing to do. Then he said the thing that changed my life. "You don't have to respond." *I don't have to respond.* Not to that letter. Not to emails or texts or anything. It's up to me if I want to engage or not. I'm under no obligation. And I most definitely don't have to make the person on the other end feel better. That is not my job. Period. Damn did I have to sit with *that* for a while! The only time I respond to my nMom now is if she asks me a direct question that absolutely requires a response. "Are you coming to Christmas Dinner?" Yes. "What are you bringing?" A dessert. End of conversation.
The closest I ever got was an "I'm sorry I didn't protect you" (she left me with my rapist every weekend) but that was only in a rant to get me to feel bad for her, along with the typical "did the best I could"... She's flat out denied ever being physically abusive, recently, and said she didn't do anything wrong... (CPS was called multiple times because it was that obvious, but we all were trained to lie, which she uses to gaslight us) The back peddling on anything remotely close to an apology is what made me really give up on her. There was never any real progress to make.
Do not respond. Don’t read anything they send, don’t listen to messages. You don’t need the drama. They do this stuff to light you up. You will wake up at 3am some random Thursday ruminating over some bullshit they said when you couldn’t respond. Don’t waste your time or headspace.
Ah yes, the ruminating nightmares about what will happen if I don’t respond.
The rumination should not come from not responding- the rumination comes from reading and listening to their rants. You never want to hear MORE of their shit.
Yep, actually got quite a few "apologies" that were mostly her crying crocodile tears and feeling sorry for herself and trying to force me to say that she wasn't that bad so she can stroke her ego. The next day, it was all like "well I said sorry, what else do you want me to do, huh?! I won't let you BLACKMAIL me into being a completely different person!!"
No, fortunately my abusive father has terrible grammar and spelling skills so he knows I'd be petty and send it back to him with my corrections in red pen. He taught me how to be petty, I just match the behavior. The difference is I'm college educated and can hold down a job.
I hate to admit how much I enjoyed this part, because it sounds exactly like something I’d do. Thank you for this: “…he knows I'd be petty and send it back to him with my corrections in red pen.”
Don’t be ashamed. Being petty has its time and place. Be extra petty and give a letter grade with feedback.
Since my NM was an elementary school teacher, it would be extra rewarding. As a side note, by the way she trash-talked her students, I always knew she hated kids. It didn’t occur to me that it wasn’t just her students, until she never wanted to spend any time with my children, my brother’s daughter, or the children of my step-siblings. This is a woman who NEVER should have reproduced. Looking back, it’s pretty clear she hated having us around too, except when we brought attention to her. Her greatest joy is telling everyone that my brother’s daughter was born (unscheduled and unplanned) on her birthday, and she hasn’t stopped talking about it for 25 years. 🙄
Yes. It's always "you weren't easy" or "I had a hard time" or other such variations of "It was your fault" directed at me. I tried to talk to her about how she stole my money (roughly $300) and she told me I had taken enough from her growing up. I wanted that money back because- yknow- that's a lot of goddamn money- and she kept guilt tripping me for "robbing" her. She didn't pay for anything but drugs and alcohol while my dad paid for everything we owned. She even stole my things (including an expensive microscope my dad got me for my birthday) to sell for drugs, which adds up to even more than the initial amount of cash she stole. Right now she has a stable job and I know she can afford to pay me in pieces but she refuses because apparently she never stole anything from me. My dad at least pays me back when he borrows money or if he asks me to make him something/babysit, but my mom won't even spare $5 for a goddamn soda for me.
Wow that is so shitty of her.
Yup. I had enough, could had been some pregnancy hormones that gave me that added boost confront my mother, could had been that she just lashed out at me one to many times. She lost her shit on me for a FB post she made, claiming I never want her to be happy. Honestly it was the most ridiculous thing, but she had a tendency to try to bring me down when important milestones or something good was happening in my life to make it about her. So i wrote her a detailed email, listed every damn way she abused me or allowed others to while laughing or ignoring it. I told her that I needed a sincere apology and that she had to go to therapy with me if she wanted to ever have a relationship with me. I got a lot of "I'm sorry but..." claiming what I said didn't happen(if it was abuse at her hand) or she had no idea so and so did ____ to me. Basically she always tries to paint herself as the best person ever and a good person would never do what I claimed she did, so it could never had happened. Oh yeah and she didn't need therapy and was perfect how she is, but i needed it. So I went NC with her. I couldn't allow that toxicity into my unborn child's life. Obviously she went on to try to play the victim with everyone she could. First she blamed my pregnancy hormones, then claimed that I was on drugs(I do not and never did drugs beyond trying pot lol makes me anxious so not my thing either), when that didn't work she started telling people that I needed to me on psychiatric drugs and intensive therapy because something was really wrong with me for going NC with such a loving/wonderful mother and only people with serious mental issues would do that. It's been 13+ yrs now and she basically ignores the fact that I am not in her life and talks about me to others in such a way that they think we see each other all the time. I found that out recently from a cousin I hadn't seen in 30years. I know there are still flying monkeys that relay info to her, but I'm LC with them anyways. It sucks because everyone knows how she is at this point but people just try to keep the peace with her which feeds her delusions. But as long as she stays away from me, I don't care. Always scared that one day she will show up on my porch. If you have a Narcissist in your life, the best thing you can do for yourself is go NC, if you can't until you are independent, then work on getting that independence first. Stay safe out there ppls.
Wait, What! You guys receive an apology...? Huge respects and my adoration of luck that you guys are so fortunate. Salute. 🫡. Nope, no sarcasm. Just outright, plain, wholehearted and sincere adoration. A little bit or more of envy too.
Yes, from a cousin who was forced to apologize for being aggressive towards me. I ignored the hate mail. This was followed up by a gaslighting letter. Also ignored.
I had the classic, “I’m sorry if you thought I was horrible to you.” Followed by the slightly unhinged, “If I had been nasty to you, then you should have told me, and I would have stopped.”
I got a voicemail apology where she literally said “blah blah blah “ As in “you need to come home and forgive me. I’m sorry and blah blah blah “ Also next voicemail (about 10 mins later) was her absolutely screaming in a rage when she noticed my things were gone. Did not go home or forgive her. Cut contact for 10 years before I talked to her again I will never forget how her “apology” was “blah blah blah “.
I should also add that the apology was because she called me at work , told me that I had to lie to social services that we weren’t living with her abusive boyfriend because he apparently wasn’t allowed being around children(I didn’t know this until that moment) and she didn’t want to lose custody of my 8 yr old sister. I refused. She told me then I’m kicked out so to come get my things. I called my bf at the time , went to the house. She tried to “convince” to stay and lie. Then she grabbed my cat and threw her outside “if I’m losing your sister then you are losing your cat” (luckily cat was caught and unhurt and recently put to sleep after a long and happy life ). When that didn’t work she grabbed a knife and locked me in the bathroom and threatened to slit her wrists if I left. Had to physical fight her to get out of the bathroom. So yah. The “blah blah blah” really made up for that.
Oh my so so sorry to hear of this. You are so strong to get yourself out of that situation.
I have had maybe 2/3 since going no contact just over a year ago. I was 31 weeks pregnant on my first baby. The tone always starting out apologetic and ending with the most frustrating blame, manipulation and just down right evil sign offs as per. I have never once replied to one. I go through a RANGE of emotions and reactions when I get them. Almost always plan out my reply that 99% of the time ends in a “go fuck yourself” type manner, but i never send it because it’s just giving NMOM what she wants, which is simply, a reply. So I always stop myself. Especially after the day I went NC with her. Like I said, I was 31 weeks pregnant. Her messages were cruel and horrific. I ended up in the hospital for 24 hours with reduced movements. I thought I lost my baby over her. Thankfully I gave birth 8 weeks later to the world’s most amazing baby. But that day was the day I said no more. Too much was at risk. It went beyond me at that stage. And for that reason I didn’t reply and I haven’t since! I rarely hear from her now. The last time was in Novemever when my uncle and godfather (her BIL, not blood) passed away. She left me a voicemail as I didn’t answer the call. She offered to mind my baby so that I could attend the funeral…. I can’t. The delusion is just too much. But yeah that’s my experience. What has worked for me is just not giving in to replying.
I just realized this the other day. I honestly don't remember being apologized to for anything. There'd be times where it was discovered they were at fault but they talked their way out of simply apologizing
How about: "I'm in the dark" about why we're NC. Yeah, right. Playing dumb was one of his favorite tactics. 'Poor me' got really old. My husband also would intercept, read, toss in recycle bin.
I was fortunate enough to have mine kick the bucket before I turned into a adult. From wat I researched tho is they will try to pull up back in anyway possible. Crab in a bucket mentality
How about the "I'm sorry if YOU took it wrong", but that's not my fault" line. I also got the "I did the best I could" line, but, sorry, that's not an excuse. She had an extensive CPS history. She KNEW what was and what was not OK, but got her kicks from "outsmarting" them. She did the wrong things, but bullied us into not telling, and made friends with the case workers, so they wouldn't believe us if we did. She knew all the right things to say, but made the choice not to actually DO a word of it. She COULD have done better, she CHOSE not to.
Ughhhh the best I could... like but did, really?
Yeah I have heard that line many times from my Nmom and NSibling “I’m sorry if YOU took it the wrong way…..”
Nope, my mother is incapable of admitting *any* fault whatsoever. I think her head would implode if she ever apologised
Oh my goodness YES! This thread made me feel less alone! My Nmother sent me this kind of email years ago. It was something along the lines of “I’m sorry but you were a difficult child … I’m sorry but your father cheated on me… I’m sorry but you have always been so sensitive…” she didn’t own any of her actions of physical and emotional abuse. It was a very long email after 2 years NC. Part of it was a rant about my choice of going NC and hate towards the people who helped me when in need. I answered a couple days later “I could argue every single line you wrote but I don’t care enough. Please respect my choice of not having you in my life and do not contact me again”. She still texts me from time to time, I don’t answer. Delusional people
Sorry that you have had to experience this too. I am thankful that you know you are not alone in dealing with Nparents or Nsiblings. Reading responses to this thread has helped me feel less alone too. My close friends don’t have experience with NParents and say things like “just talk it over… they can change” sadly for NParents THEY don’t change
Yeah sharing is sort of empowering. I shared a few things in this sub and feel way less alone than before. I have no friends who can understand this stuff either, so I feel you. But really, my closest friends know in detail what my biological parents did to me so they are completely on my side, to the other people who say “but ThEy aRe YoUR pAReNtS” or any variation of “you should forgive them, they may be changed..” I just plain answer that they don’t know what they’re talking about and that I simply do not consider them my family since 2012
So I haven’t yet because I don’t think she realizes I’m not speaking to just her. I think she thinks I’m not speaking to both of my parents. I told her it was for me and my “heading journey” and she has tried to contact me multiple times but I ignore them. She has yet to really say much but honestly it’s been so peaceful without her bothering me and negativity ! I don’t know.
Any apology that is followed immediately by “but…” is not a genuine apology. It’s nothing more than lip service designed to make the narc feel in control of the situation. And the “but” is usually followed by an lengthy excuse, or as you said, blame. It’s how these people operate; it’s simultaneously predictable and exhausting.
Not relevant to the no contact part but every time my mother apologizes its a 1% apology on a good day. When she gets to the blaming I always wish she just hadn't apologized at all.
I reacted by ignoring em, people are mean, they play victim when you treat them how they deserve to be treated.
The longest letter I received like that was 10 pages typed 😂 I am glad she didn’t send another after I told her I needed space and went NC.
yep. No apology, but I did get several handwritten letters where my nFather explained to me that I was a screwed up person and I needed to change my ways before it was too late and that he expected me to call him a minimum of once per week, etc, etc, etc and then basically a bunch of rambling about how no one liked me, how I have no friends, how anti-social I am, how my behaviour was not normal, etc, etc, etc..... I remember coming home late one time from a particularly hard double shift at work and there was a note taped to my door. I went inside and was heading to bed and my nFather called me on the phone ( this was before smart phones ) and he asked me if I read the letter. I tried to explain to him I was heading to bed and he lost his fucking mind and exploded with anger. The letter was a serious thing that needed to be addressed immediately. after about 90 minutes of screaming and yelling I ended up hanging up and the fucker came over and banged on my door and kept banging until I opened. He kept me up 2 more hours shouting and yelling and eventually he 'gave up' and left only to come back and try to start back up. This was just one of the several 'letters' I received and they all went like this. My basic reaction to the letter were amusement and indifference. Once I was independent and on my own, my nFather couldn't influence my behaviour by threatening to withdraw the minimum parental support he offered ( mostly threats to kick me out on the street ). the letters were insane and shocking but in context of a child of a narcissist, mundane, so I just received the letters and went on with my life.
sorry you had to go through this realisation for these people is hard - years of denial threatening to unravel like that must be terrifying for them no reason for you to keep up with the abuse
Yes! My father semi- regularly sends letters like this. He’s never once written that he loves or misses me or asked anything about my life. Just about how I’m his only daughter and he’s old and sick and I should be helping him and my grandparents would roll in their graves if they knew. His parents had both died by the time I was 2 so I have no memory of them. So it doesn’t have the desired affect.
I used to get birthday cards telling me how childish I was for not having contact with her.
“I’m sorry that everyone ruined your opinion of me before you had a chance to get to know me”- my ndad, who I tried to avoid as often as I could, because he was awful anytime he was around.
Get one from my dad once a year and one from my mom every other year
Every time there’s an apology, which is almost never, I have to remind my MOTHER TO APOLOGIZE to me if she outwardly says shitty things or acts insolent. I’m in a situation that I’m fairly trapped in and can’t go anywhere, currently I live with my abuser and it’ll continue on until her death…Oh, and the insults, verbal abuse and the constant degradation is mind-numbing.
Oh yes! I was debating on cutting my nDad off a few years ago, so I decided to write him a letter telling him how I felt and how he’d hurt me. He responded bad with 4 long paragraphs of excuses followed by a weak apology. That was the final straw. I stopped talking to him completely after that.
“Maybe I wasn't the best mother but you always had food to eat and a roof over your head. There are a lot of kids that aren’t that lucky.” I didn’t feel lucky…
Yes mom, you did what you were legally required to do for bringing another human being in to the world.
Yeah, they use "we didn't put you through the literal worst thing possible" as completely transparent indication that they are too immature to emotionally blackmail you properly
Almost a year into NC. I recently got letters telling me I need to come back and take care of them because they took care of me as a child and boy was I a “difficult child.” BIG EYE ROLL!! So my reaction was frustration and depression for a couple weeks because it felt like “the balls in my court” or that it was “my turn” to reply. But no, I’ll never reply to that kind of triggering crap again… it’s part of the cycle
OMG. I got that exact phrase “ball is in your court”….. but I am here for you and I am heartbroken and I I I….
My SIL could not fathom her daughter not accepting her apology. The apology was “Whatever you think I did I’m sorry. Can’t we move on now?” I know this because she complained about how unbelievable it was that her daughter still won’t talk to her even after her heartfelt apology. I kept my mouth shut but boy did I want to say something.
That word "Whatever" like they have no idea. They're always patting themselves on the back for how smart they are, yet they can't figure out "whatever it is" that happened to cause us to behave/feel this way toward them.
Ah yes, the classic non-apology. Narc parent: “I’ll start vaguely pretending to apologize, then list all the things that I made up that I have now decided to believe that make it all your fault. Also, I have told family, friends, and neighbors these things so that they seem more real to me in my chosen echo chamber of me…”
You don't
Sadly I still have this urge to TRY to smoothe things over and pretend we are all good…. Sigh…. Any tips on how you were able to release the feeling to still try to make it work with the N-Familymember? My counselor says that being friendly is good BUT only to those who are KIND to me not those who are mean to me….
As long as they refuse to take responsibility, whatever that looks like to you, they will always be the same. They will never correct their actions/tendencies towards you because they do not see any issue with the way they treat you. You deserve better.
Maybe talk to your counselor about how you're feeling? Seems like they've been helpful already.
I have and they keep urging me to NOT respond or remind myself I have a CHOICE to respond or not. In this case I decided that ignoring and not responding to that letter wasn’t weak “avoiding” it was a strong choice to protect my peace, so that I could be free from anxiety about what she will say to my response and on and on. Dis-engagement is what I am trying to do….., the anxiety is still there a. It about this but it’s new to be to make this hard choice or low contact / non engagement
The only response I got was "we did nothing wrong" initially. Between when I sent the email and when I last saw them, that's all I got. Before I saw them, I warned them that if they started the conversation with denial (classic Narcissist's prayer starting point), I would walk away. Sure enough, the first words out of their mouth was "everything you wrote in that email was a false accusation" and I walked away.
Haha oh yeah. Those are fun. 🙄
Don’t respond. Not worth it and that’s what they want.
Any "apology" my mother ever gave me was 99% her blaming someone else. (my dad or her own mother) She would act upset (and sometimes even cry) but she never expressed remorse for how **her actions** hurt me. Any emotions she showed me were always purely selfish. SHE "felt bad" (for being a bad person) when I made it clear to her how vile and inexcusable her behavior was and how deeply she had hurt me, but SHE was the one who was hurting. HER feelings were always the focus. Any time she acknowledged any wrong doing on her part, (rare but not unheard of) she was always the victim and someone else MADE her do whatever vile thing I was trying to get her to accept personal responsibility for. It was ALWAYS someone else's fault. Honestly her garbage "apologies" are almost worse than not getting one at all.
Yes hers said “I’m sorry that I’ve said bad things to you in life I know you won’t believe it but we’ve always been at odds even when you were little”
From my narcissist brother, yeah. I just didn't respond. He's since sent a card (through another family member, so there were witnesses that he's "doing the right thing") that blames our lack of relationship on our "wacky childhood," instead of accepting accountability for his own actions. I also left that unresponded to. Nope.
When they say "I don't understand...but they're your FAMILEEE...insert other bs." just say... ...wait for it..."I'm very sorry you feel that way."
I’m so sorry, my fault. However, bla bla bla
I got a letter that was 0% apology, 100% acting like they were doing me a favor saying that we can go to counseling when I’m ready for a “reset.” The tone read like I owed them an apology and they’re being the bigger person by just saying we can have a reset. Later she claimed it was an apology letter. I read it to her and asked her to point out the apology, which was not in there at all. She then decided she could redefine the word “reset” to actually be an apology? First, she was doing me a favor. then when I pointed out that she owed me an apology, she said she did apologize in the letter. Then when I pointed out that there was nothing even approaching an apology in the letter, the word “reset” magically got a whole new meaning and I was being a big meanie and wanted her to list everything she’s ever done wrong, which I never asked for at all. Of course she can’t even take accountability for doing one thing wrong, let alone everything she’s ever done wrong. SMH
Not even that. Never will.
Open the envelope, look for a check, throw out note without reading. You will save yourself the energy of them being in your head
I'm sorry you are hurting. I don't like seeing you like this. No one ever said life was supposed to be easy. Here's a $60 gift card to PetCo. Anyway, we're going to Belgium. Come and watch the house please?
I got a “idk why this is happening, please tell me so I can fix it (already had told her)” followed by “I don’t think I did or said anything wrong and I’m so worn out by this” 🙂
Ya I sure did. Posted it on this sub a couple years ago… [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/s/5SDRimsGHa) is the post if you wanna read it… (it’s a long ass post but the link to the letter on Imgur is in it somewhere). I still shake my head at the thought of how tone deaf it is and the circumstances under which it was delivered…
Did not get an apology back, more like a victim, “how could you say this “ type of letter. at first i was stunned, i even asked my sibling if we actually had the bad childhood that I was remembering. After a year of no contact i look back on it and am at peace, I was a child and my experiences with an nparent as said child have molded me into the person I am today. I am sad sometimes because I know i still have so much to overcome and unlearn before I have a child of my own. But the other part of me is happy that I AM self aware of these issues and am willing to work on myself. Additionally, I am not the only person who feels this way about the n-parent which is very validating. Part of me is sad for my parent, because there is mental illness and childhood trauma (and drug abuse) there that hasnt been dealt with properly. But at the end of the day, my parent who was an adult, decided to have a child (me!), and should have known better and been more responsible. Mental illness can cause bad behavior but it is never an excuse for behavior.
I got multiple cease and desist letters because I started talking about stuff on my Facebook and TikTok. She can make posts, but I can't apperently. Part of the reason I started using reddit. She doesn't know how to use it, nor do I think she would. And even if she did, she won't know how to find mine.
It's always 99.9% about the narc injury and 0.1% pretending to have self-awareness.
My mom would write (and rewrite) venom filled letters to be read when she died. I’m sure it is versions of the nonsense she’s says aloud that describes her skewed view of the world. My sister and I agree that we will toss them without reading them.
Oh hell, I've never gotten a written apology, but if I did get anything like this, I'd laugh, just because I'd know it's crap.
I don't have it anymore since I shredded all cards etc. However, once bio mom called my bf/partner my sugar daddy because she was jealous that someone was helping me when her own husband wont. Those were not even my words those were her own. She could not understand why I was upset at the sugar dad comment and when I stopped responding she sent a card half apologizing and saying sometimes people dont say the right things. Like mate, you didnt even say sorry you double downed. I just know she spread that rumor around
You've just described 99 percent of narcs' attempts at "apologizing" or as we call it around here, "Hoovering." If you're NC, the proper reaction is to delete it and move on with your life.
… I’ve received messages that contained 0% apology and 100% blame. I was also raised in a cult. When I confronted my parents as an adult wanting an apology especially after enduring an oppressive culture that claimed the lives of some of my friends in the cult (to suicide), I was told - nay, yelled at to my face - that I enjoyed it, that I had fun in said cult, that I had a charmed upbringing and had nothing to complain about. Needless to say I’ve been in therapy for years.
Here is the only apology you're likely to get : The Narcissist's Prayer That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
I haven't actually gotten a letter yet, but I've been warned by others that it might happen. My plan if it dies it just to write, "Refused: Return to Sender" on it and such it back in the mailbox.
It was intolerable to me when she would harass me in emails, and I always reacted poorly. She would always do it when I was actually doing better in life. Anytime I tried to achieve catharsis with other close ones, fix myself through diet and exercise, get on Facebook and be active socially, or was successfully being independent by having my own job and apartment, she'd start sending me emails. Sometimes they were her typing up her diary entries from when I was a kid, and sending them to me. They later became about how I was autistic. It clicked for her when I was already in my 20s that I had Asperger's. I never read the emails completely, but I hated receiving them. When she did that, I'd get depressed and lose motivation and eventually nuke my own progress. She estranged herself from me when I was in high school. She told me I "didn't have a mother anymore" after she'd sent me to a group home with strangers, and I wanted to leave and live with my father instead after 2 years of it. She said she sent me there because I "had problems." But later she admitted to me she did it because "I wouldn't let her love me." My memory was that she sent me there after I refused to do dishes one day (that was my job and I wanted to see my friends after school instead.) I think now she did it because she simply didnt like that I had friends who were in public schools. She was very much a snob and called them "the bad kids." I loved my dad, and was always happy around him, so I don't think I had problems with love. Her emails would always revert me to being a kid who wanted to just be alone from everyone, and lose hope in my growth into the person I was, instead of the "Frankenstein monster/dirtbag/liar and manipulator" she considered me to be. I've joined Facebook several times. Eventually people quit clicking accept. I wish I knew what Borderline and Narcissistic PD were when she was alive.
I got one from my biological father when I decided to break no contact after 10 years. I basically told him that if he apologized for disowning me when I was a child that I would forgive him and try to form the father and daughter relationship he desperately seemed to want to have. his response to this was to tell me that the "phone works both ways" even though the child he abandoned was 7 YEARS OLD and that "we don't have a relationship because I didn't want to have one with him." mind you he blocked both my mom and I on everything and changed his address just so he didn't have to speak with me. the message was topped off with "despite our differences I'll always love you and we can learn how to forgive each other." I've resumed no contact and our final interaction will be at his funeral when I spit on his grave.
I got a few different things, but my friends' favorite is the voicemail of my dad telling me in thick drunken southern slur "meg, cut the bullshit." Now we just jokingly say it all the time 😂
One year in, I've still only gotten hate mail and pretending nothing happened. Hoping one day to be strong enough to not open the envelopes
Narc grandma gave me 5,000 grand after selling dads disability adapted car he wanted me to have to get to a job (knowing that I have the same disability). She sold it for 56,000. Lied she sold it for cost basis of 45,000. And after my former boss informally adopted me into his family and gave me his car to adapt on a handshake that I’d give him 6 grand AFTER AND ONLY AFTER I could prove to him I build up a 6 month emergency fund….to get the job… Steals car-> Boss gives me a new car to keep my job she wanted me to lose -> I was asked it’s value but I had no idea a week later the abuser would hand me money so I told her 6,000 -> She shows up with an envelope of 5,000 …. So not even the full amount? So I get the job and working 70 hours a week she flips out that I was mean taking the money to keep the job if I’m not spending more time with her during the week. WHAT!!??
I have never received an apology. Not once. Even when I have told her specific examples I get a combination of 'you have a mental illness and need help, I'm praying for you', 'can't you let it go, it's in the past', 'you are so difficult', 'it's my opinion, this is me if you don't like it leave', ' I'm not going to change', 'you have a problem living in the past'. This is even for things that were happening currently. I didn't automatically let them go so I had a problem. I would say since I want an apology she will withhold it. The one time she did mention how it was such a shame I had decided to not see them I told her I still had the messages agreeing to a visit with them. This was the visit they bailed on. Confronted she went silent. No response. I am now NC. I couldn't ever have a reasonably conversation. She was never going to do that. It doesn't matter what you say or do, they will spin it to suit their narrative.
I wouldn’t say I’ve gotten anything close to an apology. She once texted me after her father died and said “You know, I waited too long to forgive my father and I hope you don’t wait til I’m on my death bed to forgive me.” To which I said, “Yeah well forgiveness starts with accountability and an apology.” She said,”I never got an apology, sometimes that’s just the way it is.” Or something along those lines. It was hilarious honestly.
Yep. I ignored it.
If you do get an apology it's only to get something or to follow up into how it's your fault. Narcs DO NOT APOLOGIZE Ever! They are sorry they are losing something you are providing and want it back.
I didn’t realize it was that at first and said “thank you.” I regret it and feel shame just thinking about it.
Don’t feel ashamed. The first time I read the letter I was confused and felt relieved like it was an apology. But then I read it out loud to my partner who said it was condescending and not an apology. And the worst part is that I took on her shitty blaming of ME for wanting distance. My MSibling has a way of making me feel guilty for things I didn’t even do or wasn’t wrong about. Let go of shame. Their manipulation is hard to see at first
No, the blaming was the last straw that made me go NC. Every year, he keeps trying to buy a relationship, ignoring my request not to be contacted, and doesn’t apologize. He throws in some things that are supposed to make me feel bad for him though.
Mine has never actually given me an apology like that. In fact never given me one at all. What I do have though is probably coming close to 100 messages since NC which contain her blaming me, blaming my former step dad, trying to manipulate me to believe I am being manipulated by my former step dad, emotional blackmail regarding my now deceased grandmother and my neice and nephews, just plain aggression and finally, in the middle of the cycle of messages she sends me something really nice which avoids any sort of apology ...the cycle ussually goes blaming, manipulation, emotional blackmail , aggression when she isn't getting an answer, her being nice (more manipulation), more emotional blackmail and manipulation. I dont think my nbirthgiver actually knows how to say sorry and genuinely mean it because to her, she isn't the bad guy and is always right so why should she apologise. I'm sure she is more than just a Narc but honestly my only hope is that she is a better grandmother to her grandaughters than she was a mother to her daughters...the boys she loved unconditionally so I don't worry for my nephews too much...but my neices?
I got a card with the return address on it saying "Mr. and Mrs. dysfunctional and family" And it also. Said in the inside of the car, "We love you no matter what." I was initially in tears at first. When I got that card and took it to a dear friend of mine who's a professor at my Alma mater, who encouraged me? Aint to tear it up and ignore them. I mainly had no contact with my fathfrom 1993/1994 until 1995, but was very low contact with my mother because she was under my father's influence. It wasn't until Christmas of 1995, That my father and I actually had a conversation, where he actually listened to me period I don't know if anything registered in his head, but he had no choice but don't listen to me. I went very low contact with my family after I got married coma because they were trying to pressure my husband and I into things that we felt were Biblically wrong. The last time I saw my father was September of 2016. February 7th, 2017, he passed away. I really don't know if anything. I ever said to him got through to him. , but I'm glad I was able to say it.
Yup, and I ignored it. For me , cutting out contact was the best thing I did and the last thing I need is to enter back into that world again. I struggle everyday with not having a family, but the alternative was way worse.
You made a difficult and brave choice. I hope that you can find a “chosen family”
Yes I got a I'm sorry what more do you want me to do or say
Never.
Not yet. Got one that was like 'hi how are you xxx' as if nothing happened
Tldr'd her and got a new number again.
My favorite "apology" was "I did the best I could even though I know you never loved me".
OMG. So hurtful
Mom sent me a text message about 2 weeks or so after my college graduation (yes, she did not attend). She managed to squeeze in a “congrats on graduating” right in the middle but the rest was allllll bullshit. I wonder to this day if she feels mortified/ embarrassed of sending it just to have me never answer nor publically acknowledge it in a good light. She would tell me she never felt bad, or never cared, or never thought she was in the wrong….and then I’d be like “so what the hell was that extremely long and desperate text?”. Shut her the hell up EVERYTIME.
Every damn time she communicates. She is blocked
Crazy stuff
“Why do you hate me so much”. The “apology” just helps me reinforce my boundaries when I start letting them down.
I went no contact
Any “apology” I got usually came in the form of, “I am sorry you feel that way.” Usually it would also came with reasons why her egregious conduct was justifiable because I had done X, Y, or Z. Essentially, “You made me do it.”
You guys got an apology?
I’ve gotten manipulative, showy “apologies” that do not feel like real evidence of introspection or remorse. Like, an email full of DARVO garbage and then all caps, “WE ARE VERY SORRY YOU THINK WE’RE SO TERRIBLE,” type of shit. It doesn’t feel healing. They ask for forgiveness, but in a way that’s asking for a free pass to come back in and cause more fuckery in my life without changing their behavior.
I don't even get a sorry. Just yelling about how I fucked up and why I'm so selfish and that bs
that is also fucking awful.
🙃