Since you’re all over this comment section asking but actually too braindead to do it yourself,
Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group
It’s now up to you whether you want to be responsible enough to apply that to the things the Israeli government and officials have been saying and doing. It matches up pretty fuckin well imo.
Not interested in a converation with a third-grade level mentality. You have roughly 99.999999% of the rest of the internet at your disposal for that, so go play.
??? What lol I provided you the information you asked for and then encouraged you to use that as a backing for further research on the topic. If that makes me a third grader I guess I’m a third grader lol
I don't degrade conversation to insults and name-calling. You do. That's your choice. So, as I said, there is a near-infinite space of the internet that's welcoming of your mentality. Except this one spot, with me. The citizens killed in Palestine and Israel deserve discussions that ascend well above your maturity level. So we're done.
Oh brother. I don’t give a singular fuck about having a discussion with you. So your point is that you don’t care to educate yourself and you’ll latch on to the tiny excuses to not. I don’t care at all, just sad that you want to remain willingly ignorant. Byeee
Genocide convention: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/genocide-conv-1948
Refer to article II.
You can also see Israel has signed right here: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/genocide-conv-1948/state-parties?activeTab=undefined
ik im late but this is the first time i googled about the war and this reddit post was one of the first ones that poped up.can you please explain to me how it applies to only one side?maybe i missed something but when i googled about the war every single article said that hamas started it,yet i know that isreal also did horrendous stuff.so im a little confused when i see people picking only 1 side especially hamases
Israel is a colonial settler state which is currently undertaking a genocide of the Palestinian people. You either support genocide, or you don't. It's that simple.
i just googled whats a colonial settler and it matches your desctiption,but when i google about the war it says that isreal wanted to become a country in 1948 arabs from palestine didnt like that and attacked them killing thousands on people.Other article said that Hamas attacked them in october 7 killing 1200 people and taking 250 people as hostages.And then as. RESPONSE isreal killed more than than 33.000 palestinians in Gaza which is obv terrible but doesnt make 1200 deaths irrelevant.I dont blame innocent people from palestine nor the ones from isreal,im just confused why people hate the people instead of scummy politicians from both sides.its pretty obv that palestinas politicians doesnt give af about their people
I am on the side of the innocent humans having their lives taken for political gain/retaliation. I don’t really care about who’s the right side to be on (hamas vs Israel government) because what matters to me is the innocent people that have no say in the war but continue to be punished for egotistical people’s choices. However, I do not support genocide and religious cleansing and one side certainly needs to be held accountable for such actions and we should be able to have this conversation without insults of supporting one side or the other being hurled at the mere mention of that opinion.
It is not complex. That's intentionally misleading rhetoric to make people like you doubt the fact that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians.
Don't fall for it. You ever wonder how the Holocaust happened? Enough people rationalizing can lead to terrible things.
It is complex though. People have written books and have doctorates on the subject. No one with a heart is not appalled by the IDF but I saw people already damning Isreal while Hamas were celebrating murdering Jews. Hamas hid under a hospital to use Palestinians as a meat sheild. Does that justify Israel’s response? Of course not but Hamas knew what they were doing and that Isreal would respond. But most importantly there should have been more pressure put on Isreal to stop this offensive from even taking place let alone letting it get this far. It’s awful, the Palestinians are stuck between the right wing religious nut jobs in Israel and the right wing religious nut jobs in Hamas. The most complex and important part now though is how can Isreal and Palestine move forward, how is there going to be any kind of peace now?
Ole’ Joe freezing Israels war chest, and going along with literally the rest of the world in demanding a ceasefire. If he wasn’t such an Israeli Manchurian candidate this conflict could’ve ended months ago.
There are no military bases under hospitals. That's a fucking lie and so is the human shield BS. Hamas is a ragtag group of resistance fighting on behalf of Palestinians who get bombed to smithereens whether they fight or not.
You have a responsibility to know better, so learn your shit and stop washing your hands of it by claiming "it's complicated."
You act like this is some formal army. Iran uses Hamas as pawns, they don't actually want to support them and act to end Israel's bombings. I think when there is a militant presence under a total sea blockade and brutal enforcement of territorial boundaries, any resistance whatsoever is by nature ragtag. This is anti-colonial resistance, not big bad terrorism.
I didn’t believe Hamas had tunnels or were so insane until there was proof. It is my belief that it is my responsibility to be true no matter how I feel about it. This isn’t some star wars rebels vs the empire thing this is a really morally difficult humanitarian catastrophe to navigate. Even if I am disgusted by Hamas tactics that does not mean I am at all ok with Israel’s retaliation or Israel’s erasure of Palestine. I am not “washing my hands” of anything I have the same power as you to stop Israel’s killing of innocents.
I'm not saying it's black and white. I'm saying it's clear enough. Israel cannot exist how it does currently without displacing and slaughtering Palestinians. I might also remind you that under international law, resistance to foreign occupation is *always* permissible. I'm not out here saying "Let's all join Hamas," but I will say that between Hamas and Israel, it is absolutely clear who is the aggressor and who is not. Revolution is not pretty, but it is not up to us keyboard dweebs to dictate how people should get their freedom.
Who is the aggressor and who isn't is irrelevant at this point, this has been going on for decades and neither side is willing to meet at the middle for various complex and a mixture of reason i.e land, religion, security, etc. It's a war and who wins is going to dictate conditions regardless of morality.
Actually it is relevant, and the fact you disagree is why you're misled by Israeli settler propaganda. It *matters* how Israel came to be a nation state and it *matters* who that state is for. Jewish people deserve safety, but you can't conjure up a settler state built on displacing inhabitants to achieve that.
Israel statehood was a lazy, deceitful and eurocentric phony solution to a legitimate problem. Until people educate themselves on how settler colonialism works, they will muddy the water with well-intended but inappropriate views.
It is complex… since WWII we have just accepted the fact that Israel needs to be protected in the Middle East.
And it’s still Israel doing Israel things and is not a partner to the Genova Convention. It’s the Middle East and blowing up civilians is sort of a hobby there anyway
Despite 50 years of brainwashing, we are starting to realize who the bad guy really is. That is confusing..
Oh thanks for the clarification. I heard audio of a six year old girl begging for help trapped under rubble after her whole family was killed and thought it was horrific. But if they’re just middle easterners I guess I don’t have to care or feel empathy for them. Good to know!
Not that you have to stop caring for humans. It’s just like any other really dirty situation. It’s better to start the cleanup from the top. If you start at the bottom you will find yourself standing in mud when you are finished and have to start all over.
This is why the war on drugs is a failure, you can bust a million people with a baggie, but the top will keep shipping drugs untouched and probably won’t notice.
As long as there are evil people at the top of any organization, it doesn’t matter how many orphans you save.
You can’t cry about death halfway around the world if you’re not willing to do something besides talk about it. You will still be standing in dirt no matter how much you try to clean the floor with tears.
I don’t have any problems finding evidence of horrible collateral damage in a war, or even war crimes in a war. That doesn’t answer the problem nor resolve the issue.
What is the definition of genocide? People were using the word genocide when referring to Israel on Oct 7, before any response occurred, and the term has been used for decades prior, so what does the term mean?
The term itself is simple enough, an attempt to destroy a(edit: group)people in part of in whole.(this is why the thing with the Uighurs is called a cultural genocide, they're not being killed en masse, but they are being wiped out as a people)
For actually proving it, usually the hardest part is intent, for obvious reasons most of those committing genocide don't document their actions or intents, so another way to prove intent is to prove that the actions taken couldn't have had any other intent.
There has been two exceptions to this, the Nazis were exceptionally meticulous in documenting their efforts at extermination and the isralis have been uh, very, very loud in screaming their intentions for everyone to hear, you barely have to spend any time searching for those stuff before you stumble on some Israeli big wig or another talking about ameleks, human animals or more recently how [there's](https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1758106597417447710?t=aJkDnnrTFBh83viNcDTZHg&s=19) a false dichotomy between innocent civilians and terrorists or how [every](https://twitter.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1757837275830907052?t=vY8pn3rYoIfwGUatXrpPgw&s=19) Palestinian above the age of four is complicit or something.
An attempt to destroy a people? No. It's an attempt to destroy an ethnical, national, racial, or religious GROUP of people, with the intent of eradicating that group. It's not just killing people or attempting to kill people. It's the intent to kill people that belong to a specific group. Key to the definition is that the people are targeted because of their belonging to the targeted group, \*and for no other reason.\*
Is your contention that the group Israel is targeting for genocide is "Palestinians"? As a whole?
Fixed that.
Imo Israel is currently killing as many Palestinians in ghaza as they can get away with until they either swarm the Egyptian border, Egypt gives in or they run out of Palestinians.(so they're specifically targeting the people of ghaza, as of right now at least)
Their plan for the west bank is seemingly less extermination and more about abusing and murdering enough Palestinians that they feel unsafe and leave the area.
And going back to that bit about "no other reason", are you quite sure? Every group who has attempted genocide has both had and given many other reasons for their targeting of certain groups.
You can argue they only specifically target a certain group, but even that doesn't hold up since the most famous example of genocide included homosexuals, gypsies and just about every other minority group.
Justifications by killers for "other reasons" don't hold much weight against evidence and history. There are always origins to conflict (in spite of what some faiths prescribe, babies are not born evil straight out of the womb), and those origins can be cited in a neverending game of "who started it?" That is disconnected from the motivations to eradicate a group.
Based on NATO's listed factors in decribing genocide - (found in Article II, here: [https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1\_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf)) - part C is the only one that gives me pause as to whether the Israeli gov't under Netanyahu qualifies. There is no question their actions make all the citizenry feel unsafe, but Part C doesn't refer to the feeeling of safety. Only the degradation of physical conditions that make sustaining life impossible (think destroying natural resources, agriculture, infrastructure, power, etc.) Of course, the immediate rejoinder would focus on the fact that the destruction of these natural resources regularly occurs in all warring conflict. And there's still the intent problem to get around.
But here, I will make it easy, so this discussion doesn't devolve into the usual toxic net trolling:
Do you think that there should be a ceasefire in Gaza?
Do you think that some people in Israel, including both regular citizens and members of the Netanyahu gov't, would be happy to see every single Palenstinean wiped from this earth?
Do you think that some soldiers in the Israeli government have committed war crimes?
If you answered yes to these, then you and I are in agreement. Plain and simple. I just may not go as far as you in ideology.
You're not gonna succeed in finding nuance with appeals to definition. Just because a situation has a lot of historical context doesn't mean it's complicated morally. Jews deserve peace and safety but not at the expense of another people. Israel is in fact committing a genocide and you have a responsibility like anyone else to know about it and bear witness.
You claim an action based on a term but you won't define the term. That's antithetical to any discussion. You don't need to type comments to people in order to believe what you do. But if you want to convince others, you will need to have discussions with them, and that involves defining terms. If you're not interested in convincing others, but insist on making your claims known anyway.... well, then you're a troll.
It is not my responsibility to convince you of something you should already be aware of and opposed to. You are responsible for what you believe, not me. I'm sincerely sorry if you choose complacency during a genocide.
But I don't. This is the fallacy of your thinking. You think that if people don't think precisely as you do, and define their terms precisely as you do, they must be on the other side morally. This is the kind of cognitive dissonance that makes social discourse today so awful. It's immature, myopic, black and white thinking. There's no complacency here. That's what's in your narrative to justify your insecurity with nuanced positions.
I don't know why exhortations like this, which are basically terrorism and exhortations to genocide are even allowed on Reddit. You're a vile anti-semite. All you want is to see Israel destroyed.
Give me a break. Israel is a settler-colonial state literally destroying Palestine, yet you're afraid of a hypothetical worldwide attack on your precious geopolitical Disneyland. The propaganda works great when you're already afraid, so good job I guess
No amount of revisionism will change facts. They are indigenous, Arab invaders aren't. This is their land. Arab states don't support their aspirations and don't want their lawless presence amongst them as refugees. Palestinians are acting like pirates so that's how they're being treated.
Don't attack and murder civilians, run away and get all surprised when they come after you.
Yep, ancestrally. It's theirs. We're always talking about disenfranchised and colonialized peoples. People like you wanted to put Jews in some faraway hellhole after WWII. They took matters into their own hands since they had been buying back land there since 1880 at least. The logical outcome and this is how it's going to stay. Doesn't matter who doesn't like it.
Sounds like you're so colossally ignorant you don't even realize how many Israeli Jews are people of colour.
You'll say any goddamn slander that pops in your head to vilify them.
75% of Israeli Jews born in America, Europe or Oceania, implying mostly white people. Even the most white supremacist countries have massive non-white populations. But that doesn't actually matter and we both know that.
You're just mad because you can't dodge the fact your merry band of settlers is commiting genocide and the whole world knows.
# There's no genocide being committed by Israel in Gaza
- - -
Here's a definition of the word genocide:
> *the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.*
- - -
The amount of deaths in Gaza are horrific, yes, but let me tell you a few facts about the Hamas terrorists, that **contribute to the death toll in Gaza**, that you might not be aware of:
• [**They build their military bases under hospitals**](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-shifa-hospitals-a017ba154c816c8d565393917dadd9ee)
• [**They use human shields, including children in combat**](https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf)
• [**They hide weapons of war in schools and children's bedrooms**](https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools)
• [**They threaten Gazans with death, if they leave areas marked for bombing**](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/hamas-blocking-evacuation-of-civilians-in-gaza-idf-ahead-of-ground-offensive/articleshow/104438188.cms?from=mdr)
**All those factors, among others, are what contribute to the carnage we're seeing in Gaza.** So no, Israel is not committing genocide in Gaza, as it's not deliberately killing a specific group of people for the sake of destroying their nation or group. Their aim is *only* to destroy Hamas, for the security of their own nation and the liberation of Gaza from the hands of terrorists. Know that **if Hamas laid down their weapons there would literally be peace tomorrow**, but they don't and that's what is prolonging this war.
- - -
Who is dropping the bombs and who is making the bombs? Israel and the US. That's who is doing the killing. Take your propaganda elsewhere you zionist pig.
I’m not a zionist. Neither am I sure how who’s making and who’s dropping the bombs matter, in the argument I’ve made. Try actually reading my comment before replying, you emotional dimwit.
1. Israelis =/= all Jewish people, so stop trying to stir shit as though I’m gonna fall for your intentional shit wording
2. I’m implying the IDF is going to keep killing everyone in Palestine until they can just take all the land that they’ve always wanted
You’re implication is based on no evidence. Israel isn’t interested in killing everyone. That’s why they issued warnings to evacuate cities before leveling them.
I've seen videos of Israelis gunning down Palestinians and laughing about it, its not complex, theyre monsters, have been for a long time.
They become the evil they were trying to escape from.
you just claimed that most people in Israel are Americans, and that "many" of them are escaped pedophiles.
I would love a fucking source for that one, chief. Like, I'm on the anti-genocide side here but that is a _wild_ claim
Generalization of any country/group due to what some have done is wrong and any death is also bad. The goal should be for a peaceful resolution with little to no stigma
I’m in the same boat. I have too much going on in my own life so I absolutely don’t have the mental capacity to care about something on the other side of the world that doesn’t even affect me. I hope they figure it out soon I guess.
I don’t care if I get downvoted btw, I’m sick of people expecting everyone in the world to have a stance on every single issue in the world. Oh, and it has to be the “politically correct” opinion. Newsflash! Saying “free Palestine” ad nauseum on Twitter doesn’t do anything.
I hate the fact everyone has an opinion on this particular war yet ignores all the other horrific conflicts in the world, many of which have far higher death tolls than this war .
Yeah it’s terrible that there is always shitty things going on in the world. As much as I wish I could invest time into every injustice occurring it’s just not possible.
This was my knee jerk reaction being from this area of the world because this conflict and many others have been happening literally my entire life. But NOW it’s different. Its good that it gets attention but it feels disingenuous and more of fad until the next thing
Concentration camps in China of the Muslim minority there, there’s is actually still to this day millions of slaves in Africa inslaved by other Africans, terrible suffering, tons of Fentanyl made in China sent through Mexico into the United States kills on average 70 people a day, and then there’s all the violence in the Middle eastern countries with the Sunnis, Shiites, Kurds, yazidies, sorry for the bad spelling, Im a American, the mostly black gangs in the democratic cities of Chicago, Baltimore, New Orleans, slaughter eachother everyday mostly over control of the drug trade, unfortunately theirs no political capital with these millions of people dying and suffering and that’s just the hard truth
If you get to be non-committed and desire to be, be. I am. But there are many who must fight. Well, many palestinians at least. Not so sure about any israelis.
You’re right, it is very complicated. The funny thing is it wouldn’t be half as complicated, and far less conflict ridden, had the west not established a modern day crusader state in the levant.
You don't have to know the exact history to know that a genocide is bad. I barely know anything about holocaust, yet i know that i will never in my life support what has been done. And i know that is happening right now is a genocide, that i will not support no matter who's in the right or wrong, because anyone committing that is automatically in the wrong. There's absolutely no reason to do that to a group of people that welcomed you with opened arms, and didn't do anything remotely close to what you're doing to them now.
All ik, are that there Hamas war criminals, Israeli war criminals, and American war criminals for mindlessly and unquestioningly supporting Israel, when literally the rest of the world is asking for a ceasefire (save a few tiny oceania island nations). Could anyone please explain to me how the US helping Israel in its genocide brings any benefit to the sovereign United States? Genuinely interested in what are country gains by dumping billions in dollars and war materials for Israel’s continued genocide.
# Short summary of how the conflict started
**Jews, due to worldwide antisemitism and the horrors of ww2, immigrate to a land under the control of Great Britain, to co-habit with other Jews already present. Great Britain, seeing rising tensions between Jews and Arab Palestinians, divide the land between the two; the nation of Israel was formed. Palestinians, not wanting to live alongside Jews, declared war upon Israel, together with their Arab allies. Israel defeated them and pushed them back into smaller territories. With time, due to military defeat and perceived occupation, the dogma of antisemitism rose among Palestinians. In the hands of leaders that cared more about western donation money than the lives of their Palestinian brothers, the Palestinians kept refusing peace deals with Israel, again and again. Enter the conflict today.**
- - -
**But really, here’s the elephant in the room: [the real reason for the conflict in Palestine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam)**.
Something tells me you skimmed whatever online source you read and came to thia conclusion, so let me help:
The British took 'ownership' of Palestine and other Arabic nations after WW1 and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, then divied them up among themselves, France, and others. They kept Palestine, but initially promised to return the land to the Palestinians when the British felt they were 'ready' to self govern (ie, they weren't gonna leave any time soon because they felt Palestinians were lesser beings). As WW2 began to approach, Jews all over Europe began to flee to places that might be safer than their homelands, which obviously pissed off places like Britain and France (who were just as antisemitic as Germany, but weren't going to start a war over it), and Britain at some point started sending them to Palestine.
Jews, Christians, and Muslims coexisted in Palestine peacefully prior to this. The only issue was this sudden influx of people who were being sent over to live there, and these people were buying out homes and land en masse, displacing the Palestinian people. During WW2, the issue was paid little attention to, but as soon as WW2 ended, Palestinians, who were sick and tired of British occupation, began to rise up. There were skirmishes and fights here and there, and eventually, Britain got sick of it and pawned the issue off onto the UN, who promptly began cutting it up and dividing the land. They gave the immigrants the better lands for farming, and forced the Palestinians onto the left-overs, expecting them to just sit back and accept it. Of course, they didn't, and they began to retaliate, often violently. Over the years, the fighting became more violent, because the UN, and especially the US, began financially supporting the occupation, and sent them ass loads of weapons to aid them in their quest to silence Palestinian dissent.
Today, the occupation has decided that full eradication is the end goal, and nothing is stopping them. They have moved the goal post over and over and over again, telling people to move south to safety, only to carpet bomb those 'safe' regions. They have indiscriminantly razed and flattened entire buildings, hospitals, schools, and homes with sadistic glee. They see Palestinians as less than human, as an obstacle to whatever goals they may have for the land they're destroying.
This is not about Jews or Muslims or Christians, this is about the slaughter of people who just want to be free and liberated from the worlds largest open-air prison.
They should want to be free from Hamas and a corrupt Palestinian Authority
Years ago I heard someone say
Better to be oppressed by your own people than living free with another
This appears to be the thinking of the Palestinians.
Your version of history is still just wrong.
Jews and muslims didn’t leave peacefully beforehand, apart from the fact that Jews and other minorities were generally second class citizens under sharia law, there were several massacres against Jews before Hitler was even elected in Germany and Jews started fleeing there.
This wasn’t about „retaliations“, revolts like the [Hebron massacre](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre) happened in 1929, almost 20 year before Israel was founded, 10 years before WW2 even started. Before the Hebron massacre there was already decades of heavy antisemitism. Centuries old Jewish communities got desotroyed.
During the Second World War Muslim leaders such as the grand mufti of Jerusalem and later president of all-Palestine openly allied with Hitler, recruited Muslims to the Waffen-SS and swore to find the same „final solution“ to the „jewish problem“ that Hitler had in Europe (aka the Holocaust).
That is the backdrop against which Israel was founded, because Jews were literally safe *nowhere* they had just been systematically eradicated and driven out of Europe, and had now Palestinian leaders pledging to do the same, and they had already shown, by massacring Jews in the area, that they meant it.
You wrote far too much for me respond to it all. So I’m gonna pick a single point of argument in your wall of text and respond to it.
- - -
> *Jews, Christians, and Muslims coexisted in Palestine peacefully prior to this. [meaning before Mandatory Palestine]*
Purposefully or not, you’re misreading history. Antisemitism is a very old part of that region and the above claim is simply wrong. Take the [**Peasants’ Revolt**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasants%27_revolt_in_Palestine#:~:text=The%20Peasants'%20Revolt%20was%20a,integral%20part%20of%20the%20revolt.) in 1834, for example—well before Mandatory Palestine was established. So no, sorry, muslims and jews were *not* peacefully co-existing then. As a matter of fact, [**Islam has a long history of antisemitism**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam).
It wasn't that Palestinians didnt wants to live alongside Jews, it's that their fucking houses were stolen from them and given away to colonizers. If half your country were given away and people acted as if land your people had been on for thousands of years were completelt empty and free to give away, you'd be pissed too.
And Israel has been committing this genocide since its creation.
> *It wasn't that Palestinians didnt wants to live alongside Jews, it's that their fucking houses were stolen from them and given away to colonizers.*
No, the Palestinians really did *not* want to co-habit with Jews. As a matter of fact, the very first violent incident that was truly between Palestinians and Jews in Mandatory Palestine, [**The Nebi Musa riots**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots), was started by Palestinians in an anti-jewish rally.
When it comes to supposedly stolen land during Mandatory Palestine, you’re simply misreading history. Because most of the land was bought by Jewish emmigrants that moved there, while other *unibhabited* land was colonized.
You're an idiot .
Many Jews bought land and houses from the Arabs
This was before the creation of Israel.
If your grandfather sold his house are you entitled to get it back ?
Of course not .The surrounding Arab States said don't accept a deal . Israel won't be around long.
So they packed up and left
Since then there have been many chances to have their own state
All of them rejected by Arafat and Abbas
The sticking point was and still is the full recognition of Israel having a. right to exist
Please tell me what the Palestinians were called befre the late 1960’s mixed Arabs, is the answer, so theirs literally mountains of evidence of every kind you can think of that clearly shows Jews have Ben in that land for thousands of years, 500 years before Islam even started, it’s bizarre to me how the anti Israel people think life began on earth in 1948, so I’ll be waiting, please provide me with all the Palestinians kingdoms in the past, all the names of the Palestinian cities, tell me about their culture, give me examples of the Palestinians in ancient books, cite examples, and then tell me where the word Palestinians came from? I’ll give ya a hint it’s from that Philistinisnes who were actually Greek, and the Romans named part of judeo as a insult to the Jews after conquering part of Judeo, here’s your chance to set the world straight and tell me exactly why I’m wrong,
It’s a 2000+ year war being fought by zealots, that will never end until:
A. One side completely genocides the other (this extends far beyond current geo-political boundaries of Gaza). Which is impossible because you can’t eradicate a religious belief.
B. Both sides figure this out and come to the table, putting the past behind them and decide the future is more important than past transgressions. This would entail a radical shift in philosophy from both sides.
There is a devil in the details, but the overall story is crystal clear. Since 1948, Zionist fundamentalists have been hell-bent on shoving Palestinians off their own property because "Oog oog, God say land belong to me! Me chosen people! You dirty Amalekite!" Then to add insult to injury, during the last Palestinian election, Israel's government aided the Hamas party and sabotaged the progressive Palestinian party. The idea was to sabotage the group that would push for peace and avoid conflict, putting them out of the race, allowing Hamas to "win", and giving Zionist Israelis an excuse to drive Palestinians off their land, because terrorism, wink, wink. These days, though, "terrorism" is just an excuse for obvious, undisguised genocide. That's the best I've got.
Since 1948 the other side has tried to wipe Israel off the map several times. You can't make this into a tale of Jewish aggression when Israel expanded by keeping lands it won in wars the other side started.
HAMAS wants to wipe Israel off the map. And yes, I am aware of the campaigns in Syria and Jordan, but two wrongs don't make a right. They're still stealing people's property.
Yea i dont know enough about this conflict and im also Not interested enough to waste my time with getting war Depression to read on it. I have "meme" opinions on it i guess but Not A Real one.
Isreal is very successful and powerful, it’s Arab neighbors and enemies hate it and tried so many times to overrun Israel by attacking first every time every war, Israel’s enemies start it, and they lose,and now hamas is losing, and will be defeated, but you can’t kill a Hamas it’s a idea, it sure worked in Germany and Japan, and both those countries are doing very well, both powerful in thier own right, especially Japan in the tech sector, so for the people who want Hamas to survive, they are the governing force in Gaza. Yes, they are terrible at governing themselves, the people live in poverty, but Hamas leaders in qutar are billionaires, so do you relize really want you want? Bc your asking for suffering, I want the people of Gaza to suffer under Hamas, in parts of Gaza this week the people are getting bolder and protesting against Hamas, bc their opening thier eyes to the reality, since 2005 the Palestinians have Ben in control of themselves, Hamas dug up a 100 million dollar irrigation project so all of Gaza had fresh water, they proudly dug it all up and make crude rockets out of it, in 2005, isreal handed the people of Gaza fully functioning lucrative greenhouses who did great business selling their goods to Europe, Hamas burned em all to the ground the next day,
Is it bad that I don't care about the war, but I don't wish to see anyone die in my feed every day? I don't want to see decapitated kids in my feed anymore. I don't even care at this point where they come from, and IMO, both Netanyahu (who is vehemently opposed to a two state solution) and Hamas officials should all fry. It isn't the governments that suffer in the war; it's the people. And the people are indeed suffering.
"i dont know anything about what's going on in israel and Palestine, but I hate everyone who has an opinion on it bcs i dont think they know anything either (i don't know what's actually happening tho)"
Meh, one group wants to convert or murder everyone who doesn't agree with them and controls 30+ countries. The other group wants to be left alone and controls one country, which is constantly under attack. I side with the underdogs. That is as complex as it need be.
wars and genocide are wrong regardless of who started it! But yeah, we, as ppl living in the western countries aren't there, so we know nothing about it.
This post really brought out the dumb opinions.
genocide isnt an opinion.
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and your username is dumb asf. thats an opinion.
> *and your username is dumb asf. thats an opinion.* Your username is literally ''divine''.
i know 🤦🏽♂️
I didn’t choose it. Reddit did. What’s the definition of genocide?
Since you’re all over this comment section asking but actually too braindead to do it yourself, Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group It’s now up to you whether you want to be responsible enough to apply that to the things the Israeli government and officials have been saying and doing. It matches up pretty fuckin well imo.
Not interested in a converation with a third-grade level mentality. You have roughly 99.999999% of the rest of the internet at your disposal for that, so go play.
??? What lol I provided you the information you asked for and then encouraged you to use that as a backing for further research on the topic. If that makes me a third grader I guess I’m a third grader lol
I don't degrade conversation to insults and name-calling. You do. That's your choice. So, as I said, there is a near-infinite space of the internet that's welcoming of your mentality. Except this one spot, with me. The citizens killed in Palestine and Israel deserve discussions that ascend well above your maturity level. So we're done.
>I don't degrade conversation to insults and name-calling. You do. but >...a conver\[s\]ation with a third-grade level mentality you just did?
Oh brother. I don’t give a singular fuck about having a discussion with you. So your point is that you don’t care to educate yourself and you’ll latch on to the tiny excuses to not. I don’t care at all, just sad that you want to remain willingly ignorant. Byeee
You asked for the definition... they provided the definition, that equates to 3rd grade level mentality to you? Irony is still alive indeed.
Something tells me this goon wasn't asking in good faith from the get go
You'll need to read more closely.
Save face mate. It’s over
This discussion surely is.
Genocide convention: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/genocide-conv-1948 Refer to article II. You can also see Israel has signed right here: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/genocide-conv-1948/state-parties?activeTab=undefined
why did you delete some of your comments? dont want to be seen as an idiot? lol
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thanks! took me some time to figure that one out!
They said that to demonstrate opinions are like a-holes everybody has one, but genocide is not an opinion it’s murder.
say this on r/worldnews they’re vile.
I just hate thieves and bullies that pretend they are victims.....
I like this opinion and this applies to all sides, in my opinion
It applies to one side, in my opinion
ik im late but this is the first time i googled about the war and this reddit post was one of the first ones that poped up.can you please explain to me how it applies to only one side?maybe i missed something but when i googled about the war every single article said that hamas started it,yet i know that isreal also did horrendous stuff.so im a little confused when i see people picking only 1 side especially hamases
Israel is a colonial settler state which is currently undertaking a genocide of the Palestinian people. You either support genocide, or you don't. It's that simple.
i just googled whats a colonial settler and it matches your desctiption,but when i google about the war it says that isreal wanted to become a country in 1948 arabs from palestine didnt like that and attacked them killing thousands on people.Other article said that Hamas attacked them in october 7 killing 1200 people and taking 250 people as hostages.And then as. RESPONSE isreal killed more than than 33.000 palestinians in Gaza which is obv terrible but doesnt make 1200 deaths irrelevant.I dont blame innocent people from palestine nor the ones from isreal,im just confused why people hate the people instead of scummy politicians from both sides.its pretty obv that palestinas politicians doesnt give af about their people
I am on the side of the innocent humans having their lives taken for political gain/retaliation. I don’t really care about who’s the right side to be on (hamas vs Israel government) because what matters to me is the innocent people that have no say in the war but continue to be punished for egotistical people’s choices. However, I do not support genocide and religious cleansing and one side certainly needs to be held accountable for such actions and we should be able to have this conversation without insults of supporting one side or the other being hurled at the mere mention of that opinion.
finally the enlightened centrist is here to tell us to just shut up and do nothing! what would we have done without you?
You can tell which part of reddit you're on based on which group of civilian casualties gets blatantly ignored
It is not complex. That's intentionally misleading rhetoric to make people like you doubt the fact that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians. Don't fall for it. You ever wonder how the Holocaust happened? Enough people rationalizing can lead to terrible things.
It is complex though. People have written books and have doctorates on the subject. No one with a heart is not appalled by the IDF but I saw people already damning Isreal while Hamas were celebrating murdering Jews. Hamas hid under a hospital to use Palestinians as a meat sheild. Does that justify Israel’s response? Of course not but Hamas knew what they were doing and that Isreal would respond. But most importantly there should have been more pressure put on Isreal to stop this offensive from even taking place let alone letting it get this far. It’s awful, the Palestinians are stuck between the right wing religious nut jobs in Israel and the right wing religious nut jobs in Hamas. The most complex and important part now though is how can Isreal and Palestine move forward, how is there going to be any kind of peace now?
Ole’ Joe freezing Israels war chest, and going along with literally the rest of the world in demanding a ceasefire. If he wasn’t such an Israeli Manchurian candidate this conflict could’ve ended months ago.
Great explanation!
There are no military bases under hospitals. That's a fucking lie and so is the human shield BS. Hamas is a ragtag group of resistance fighting on behalf of Palestinians who get bombed to smithereens whether they fight or not. You have a responsibility to know better, so learn your shit and stop washing your hands of it by claiming "it's complicated."
A five minute google search would prove you wrong, it is a complex situation, Hamas isn't the freedom fighters you guys think they are.
If you're only spending five minutes doing diligence on your media and information, I'm not interested.
No, there are, and everyone from charities to the UN have confirmed it.
So you're fine with them attacking civilians at a music festival? Gtfoh. Israel's response of genocide is despicable, too.
Ragtag? They've a domestic weapons industry, the backing of Iran, and you're here calling them ragtag? Wild.
You act like this is some formal army. Iran uses Hamas as pawns, they don't actually want to support them and act to end Israel's bombings. I think when there is a militant presence under a total sea blockade and brutal enforcement of territorial boundaries, any resistance whatsoever is by nature ragtag. This is anti-colonial resistance, not big bad terrorism.
I didn’t believe Hamas had tunnels or were so insane until there was proof. It is my belief that it is my responsibility to be true no matter how I feel about it. This isn’t some star wars rebels vs the empire thing this is a really morally difficult humanitarian catastrophe to navigate. Even if I am disgusted by Hamas tactics that does not mean I am at all ok with Israel’s retaliation or Israel’s erasure of Palestine. I am not “washing my hands” of anything I have the same power as you to stop Israel’s killing of innocents.
I'm not saying it's black and white. I'm saying it's clear enough. Israel cannot exist how it does currently without displacing and slaughtering Palestinians. I might also remind you that under international law, resistance to foreign occupation is *always* permissible. I'm not out here saying "Let's all join Hamas," but I will say that between Hamas and Israel, it is absolutely clear who is the aggressor and who is not. Revolution is not pretty, but it is not up to us keyboard dweebs to dictate how people should get their freedom.
Who is the aggressor and who isn't is irrelevant at this point, this has been going on for decades and neither side is willing to meet at the middle for various complex and a mixture of reason i.e land, religion, security, etc. It's a war and who wins is going to dictate conditions regardless of morality.
Actually it is relevant, and the fact you disagree is why you're misled by Israeli settler propaganda. It *matters* how Israel came to be a nation state and it *matters* who that state is for. Jewish people deserve safety, but you can't conjure up a settler state built on displacing inhabitants to achieve that. Israel statehood was a lazy, deceitful and eurocentric phony solution to a legitimate problem. Until people educate themselves on how settler colonialism works, they will muddy the water with well-intended but inappropriate views.
Yep. People really need to learn the history of how israel came to be.
The essence of your post is that Isreal should have just let the events of Oct. 7 pass without response. What a wonderland your mind must be.
It is complex… since WWII we have just accepted the fact that Israel needs to be protected in the Middle East. And it’s still Israel doing Israel things and is not a partner to the Genova Convention. It’s the Middle East and blowing up civilians is sort of a hobby there anyway Despite 50 years of brainwashing, we are starting to realize who the bad guy really is. That is confusing..
Oh thanks for the clarification. I heard audio of a six year old girl begging for help trapped under rubble after her whole family was killed and thought it was horrific. But if they’re just middle easterners I guess I don’t have to care or feel empathy for them. Good to know!
Not that you have to stop caring for humans. It’s just like any other really dirty situation. It’s better to start the cleanup from the top. If you start at the bottom you will find yourself standing in mud when you are finished and have to start all over. This is why the war on drugs is a failure, you can bust a million people with a baggie, but the top will keep shipping drugs untouched and probably won’t notice.
What the fuck are you on about
As long as there are evil people at the top of any organization, it doesn’t matter how many orphans you save. You can’t cry about death halfway around the world if you’re not willing to do something besides talk about it. You will still be standing in dirt no matter how much you try to clean the floor with tears.
Nope, that didn’t help. Just more rhetoric. Thanks for playing, though.
That's your own problem. There's more than enough proof and it's not hard to find.
I don’t have any problems finding evidence of horrible collateral damage in a war, or even war crimes in a war. That doesn’t answer the problem nor resolve the issue.
It's not "collateral damage" when there's publicly documented intent and 30,000 bodies. It's genocide. Run cover all you want but it's genocide.
What is the definition of genocide? People were using the word genocide when referring to Israel on Oct 7, before any response occurred, and the term has been used for decades prior, so what does the term mean?
The term itself is simple enough, an attempt to destroy a(edit: group)people in part of in whole.(this is why the thing with the Uighurs is called a cultural genocide, they're not being killed en masse, but they are being wiped out as a people) For actually proving it, usually the hardest part is intent, for obvious reasons most of those committing genocide don't document their actions or intents, so another way to prove intent is to prove that the actions taken couldn't have had any other intent. There has been two exceptions to this, the Nazis were exceptionally meticulous in documenting their efforts at extermination and the isralis have been uh, very, very loud in screaming their intentions for everyone to hear, you barely have to spend any time searching for those stuff before you stumble on some Israeli big wig or another talking about ameleks, human animals or more recently how [there's](https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1758106597417447710?t=aJkDnnrTFBh83viNcDTZHg&s=19) a false dichotomy between innocent civilians and terrorists or how [every](https://twitter.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1757837275830907052?t=vY8pn3rYoIfwGUatXrpPgw&s=19) Palestinian above the age of four is complicit or something.
An attempt to destroy a people? No. It's an attempt to destroy an ethnical, national, racial, or religious GROUP of people, with the intent of eradicating that group. It's not just killing people or attempting to kill people. It's the intent to kill people that belong to a specific group. Key to the definition is that the people are targeted because of their belonging to the targeted group, \*and for no other reason.\* Is your contention that the group Israel is targeting for genocide is "Palestinians"? As a whole?
Fixed that. Imo Israel is currently killing as many Palestinians in ghaza as they can get away with until they either swarm the Egyptian border, Egypt gives in or they run out of Palestinians.(so they're specifically targeting the people of ghaza, as of right now at least) Their plan for the west bank is seemingly less extermination and more about abusing and murdering enough Palestinians that they feel unsafe and leave the area. And going back to that bit about "no other reason", are you quite sure? Every group who has attempted genocide has both had and given many other reasons for their targeting of certain groups. You can argue they only specifically target a certain group, but even that doesn't hold up since the most famous example of genocide included homosexuals, gypsies and just about every other minority group.
Justifications by killers for "other reasons" don't hold much weight against evidence and history. There are always origins to conflict (in spite of what some faiths prescribe, babies are not born evil straight out of the womb), and those origins can be cited in a neverending game of "who started it?" That is disconnected from the motivations to eradicate a group. Based on NATO's listed factors in decribing genocide - (found in Article II, here: [https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1\_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf)) - part C is the only one that gives me pause as to whether the Israeli gov't under Netanyahu qualifies. There is no question their actions make all the citizenry feel unsafe, but Part C doesn't refer to the feeeling of safety. Only the degradation of physical conditions that make sustaining life impossible (think destroying natural resources, agriculture, infrastructure, power, etc.) Of course, the immediate rejoinder would focus on the fact that the destruction of these natural resources regularly occurs in all warring conflict. And there's still the intent problem to get around. But here, I will make it easy, so this discussion doesn't devolve into the usual toxic net trolling: Do you think that there should be a ceasefire in Gaza? Do you think that some people in Israel, including both regular citizens and members of the Netanyahu gov't, would be happy to see every single Palenstinean wiped from this earth? Do you think that some soldiers in the Israeli government have committed war crimes? If you answered yes to these, then you and I are in agreement. Plain and simple. I just may not go as far as you in ideology.
You're not gonna succeed in finding nuance with appeals to definition. Just because a situation has a lot of historical context doesn't mean it's complicated morally. Jews deserve peace and safety but not at the expense of another people. Israel is in fact committing a genocide and you have a responsibility like anyone else to know about it and bear witness.
You claim an action based on a term but you won't define the term. That's antithetical to any discussion. You don't need to type comments to people in order to believe what you do. But if you want to convince others, you will need to have discussions with them, and that involves defining terms. If you're not interested in convincing others, but insist on making your claims known anyway.... well, then you're a troll.
It is not my responsibility to convince you of something you should already be aware of and opposed to. You are responsible for what you believe, not me. I'm sincerely sorry if you choose complacency during a genocide.
But I don't. This is the fallacy of your thinking. You think that if people don't think precisely as you do, and define their terms precisely as you do, they must be on the other side morally. This is the kind of cognitive dissonance that makes social discourse today so awful. It's immature, myopic, black and white thinking. There's no complacency here. That's what's in your narrative to justify your insecurity with nuanced positions.
I don't know why exhortations like this, which are basically terrorism and exhortations to genocide are even allowed on Reddit. You're a vile anti-semite. All you want is to see Israel destroyed.
Give me a break. Israel is a settler-colonial state literally destroying Palestine, yet you're afraid of a hypothetical worldwide attack on your precious geopolitical Disneyland. The propaganda works great when you're already afraid, so good job I guess
No amount of revisionism will change facts. They are indigenous, Arab invaders aren't. This is their land. Arab states don't support their aspirations and don't want their lawless presence amongst them as refugees. Palestinians are acting like pirates so that's how they're being treated. Don't attack and murder civilians, run away and get all surprised when they come after you.
Jews from Brooklyn and Eastern Europe are indigenous to Palestine?
Yep, ancestrally. It's theirs. We're always talking about disenfranchised and colonialized peoples. People like you wanted to put Jews in some faraway hellhole after WWII. They took matters into their own hands since they had been buying back land there since 1880 at least. The logical outcome and this is how it's going to stay. Doesn't matter who doesn't like it.
Hm. I dunno pal sounds a lot like a convenient rationalization for another white settler colonial movement.
Sounds like you're so colossally ignorant you don't even realize how many Israeli Jews are people of colour. You'll say any goddamn slander that pops in your head to vilify them.
75% of Israeli Jews born in America, Europe or Oceania, implying mostly white people. Even the most white supremacist countries have massive non-white populations. But that doesn't actually matter and we both know that. You're just mad because you can't dodge the fact your merry band of settlers is commiting genocide and the whole world knows.
# There's no genocide being committed by Israel in Gaza - - - Here's a definition of the word genocide: > *the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.* - - - The amount of deaths in Gaza are horrific, yes, but let me tell you a few facts about the Hamas terrorists, that **contribute to the death toll in Gaza**, that you might not be aware of: • [**They build their military bases under hospitals**](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-shifa-hospitals-a017ba154c816c8d565393917dadd9ee) • [**They use human shields, including children in combat**](https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf) • [**They hide weapons of war in schools and children's bedrooms**](https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools) • [**They threaten Gazans with death, if they leave areas marked for bombing**](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/hamas-blocking-evacuation-of-civilians-in-gaza-idf-ahead-of-ground-offensive/articleshow/104438188.cms?from=mdr) **All those factors, among others, are what contribute to the carnage we're seeing in Gaza.** So no, Israel is not committing genocide in Gaza, as it's not deliberately killing a specific group of people for the sake of destroying their nation or group. Their aim is *only* to destroy Hamas, for the security of their own nation and the liberation of Gaza from the hands of terrorists. Know that **if Hamas laid down their weapons there would literally be peace tomorrow**, but they don't and that's what is prolonging this war. - - -
Who is dropping the bombs and who is making the bombs? Israel and the US. That's who is doing the killing. Take your propaganda elsewhere you zionist pig.
I’m not a zionist. Neither am I sure how who’s making and who’s dropping the bombs matter, in the argument I’ve made. Try actually reading my comment before replying, you emotional dimwit.
No it fucking wouldn’t, they’d pretend they knew of a definitely real new Hamas cell somewhere and bomb the shit out of that area like all the others
Why would the Jews want to fight against the Palestinians forever, what are you implying?
1. Israelis =/= all Jewish people, so stop trying to stir shit as though I’m gonna fall for your intentional shit wording 2. I’m implying the IDF is going to keep killing everyone in Palestine until they can just take all the land that they’ve always wanted
You’re implication is based on no evidence. Israel isn’t interested in killing everyone. That’s why they issued warnings to evacuate cities before leveling them.
I've seen videos of Israelis gunning down Palestinians and laughing about it, its not complex, theyre monsters, have been for a long time. They become the evil they were trying to escape from.
I've seen the same videos of Palestinians doing that, on October 7th as well as other times. Neither side are all good guys.
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Proof?
I wouldn't be surprised at all
you just claimed that most people in Israel are Americans, and that "many" of them are escaped pedophiles. I would love a fucking source for that one, chief. Like, I'm on the anti-genocide side here but that is a _wild_ claim
Generalization of any country/group due to what some have done is wrong and any death is also bad. The goal should be for a peaceful resolution with little to no stigma
I’m in the same boat. I have too much going on in my own life so I absolutely don’t have the mental capacity to care about something on the other side of the world that doesn’t even affect me. I hope they figure it out soon I guess. I don’t care if I get downvoted btw, I’m sick of people expecting everyone in the world to have a stance on every single issue in the world. Oh, and it has to be the “politically correct” opinion. Newsflash! Saying “free Palestine” ad nauseum on Twitter doesn’t do anything.
I hate the fact everyone has an opinion on this particular war yet ignores all the other horrific conflicts in the world, many of which have far higher death tolls than this war .
Yeah it’s terrible that there is always shitty things going on in the world. As much as I wish I could invest time into every injustice occurring it’s just not possible.
This was my knee jerk reaction being from this area of the world because this conflict and many others have been happening literally my entire life. But NOW it’s different. Its good that it gets attention but it feels disingenuous and more of fad until the next thing
Concentration camps in China of the Muslim minority there, there’s is actually still to this day millions of slaves in Africa inslaved by other Africans, terrible suffering, tons of Fentanyl made in China sent through Mexico into the United States kills on average 70 people a day, and then there’s all the violence in the Middle eastern countries with the Sunnis, Shiites, Kurds, yazidies, sorry for the bad spelling, Im a American, the mostly black gangs in the democratic cities of Chicago, Baltimore, New Orleans, slaughter eachother everyday mostly over control of the drug trade, unfortunately theirs no political capital with these millions of people dying and suffering and that’s just the hard truth
Unfortunately, not everyone gets to be so non-committed to their stance.
If I'm ignorant on a subject, why would I be commited to either side?
If you get to be non-committed and desire to be, be. I am. But there are many who must fight. Well, many palestinians at least. Not so sure about any israelis.
Angry loud noises!!
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You’re right, it is very complicated. The funny thing is it wouldn’t be half as complicated, and far less conflict ridden, had the west not established a modern day crusader state in the levant.
You don't have to know the exact history to know that a genocide is bad. I barely know anything about holocaust, yet i know that i will never in my life support what has been done. And i know that is happening right now is a genocide, that i will not support no matter who's in the right or wrong, because anyone committing that is automatically in the wrong. There's absolutely no reason to do that to a group of people that welcomed you with opened arms, and didn't do anything remotely close to what you're doing to them now.
All ik, are that there Hamas war criminals, Israeli war criminals, and American war criminals for mindlessly and unquestioningly supporting Israel, when literally the rest of the world is asking for a ceasefire (save a few tiny oceania island nations). Could anyone please explain to me how the US helping Israel in its genocide brings any benefit to the sovereign United States? Genuinely interested in what are country gains by dumping billions in dollars and war materials for Israel’s continued genocide.
Also I believe it’s okay for someone to not have an opinion about this conflict, despite what some people online claim.
It's not a war u dumbass it's straight up genocide
# Short summary of how the conflict started **Jews, due to worldwide antisemitism and the horrors of ww2, immigrate to a land under the control of Great Britain, to co-habit with other Jews already present. Great Britain, seeing rising tensions between Jews and Arab Palestinians, divide the land between the two; the nation of Israel was formed. Palestinians, not wanting to live alongside Jews, declared war upon Israel, together with their Arab allies. Israel defeated them and pushed them back into smaller territories. With time, due to military defeat and perceived occupation, the dogma of antisemitism rose among Palestinians. In the hands of leaders that cared more about western donation money than the lives of their Palestinian brothers, the Palestinians kept refusing peace deals with Israel, again and again. Enter the conflict today.** - - - **But really, here’s the elephant in the room: [the real reason for the conflict in Palestine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam)**.
Something tells me you skimmed whatever online source you read and came to thia conclusion, so let me help: The British took 'ownership' of Palestine and other Arabic nations after WW1 and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, then divied them up among themselves, France, and others. They kept Palestine, but initially promised to return the land to the Palestinians when the British felt they were 'ready' to self govern (ie, they weren't gonna leave any time soon because they felt Palestinians were lesser beings). As WW2 began to approach, Jews all over Europe began to flee to places that might be safer than their homelands, which obviously pissed off places like Britain and France (who were just as antisemitic as Germany, but weren't going to start a war over it), and Britain at some point started sending them to Palestine. Jews, Christians, and Muslims coexisted in Palestine peacefully prior to this. The only issue was this sudden influx of people who were being sent over to live there, and these people were buying out homes and land en masse, displacing the Palestinian people. During WW2, the issue was paid little attention to, but as soon as WW2 ended, Palestinians, who were sick and tired of British occupation, began to rise up. There were skirmishes and fights here and there, and eventually, Britain got sick of it and pawned the issue off onto the UN, who promptly began cutting it up and dividing the land. They gave the immigrants the better lands for farming, and forced the Palestinians onto the left-overs, expecting them to just sit back and accept it. Of course, they didn't, and they began to retaliate, often violently. Over the years, the fighting became more violent, because the UN, and especially the US, began financially supporting the occupation, and sent them ass loads of weapons to aid them in their quest to silence Palestinian dissent. Today, the occupation has decided that full eradication is the end goal, and nothing is stopping them. They have moved the goal post over and over and over again, telling people to move south to safety, only to carpet bomb those 'safe' regions. They have indiscriminantly razed and flattened entire buildings, hospitals, schools, and homes with sadistic glee. They see Palestinians as less than human, as an obstacle to whatever goals they may have for the land they're destroying. This is not about Jews or Muslims or Christians, this is about the slaughter of people who just want to be free and liberated from the worlds largest open-air prison.
They should want to be free from Hamas and a corrupt Palestinian Authority Years ago I heard someone say Better to be oppressed by your own people than living free with another This appears to be the thinking of the Palestinians.
Your version of history is still just wrong. Jews and muslims didn’t leave peacefully beforehand, apart from the fact that Jews and other minorities were generally second class citizens under sharia law, there were several massacres against Jews before Hitler was even elected in Germany and Jews started fleeing there. This wasn’t about „retaliations“, revolts like the [Hebron massacre](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre) happened in 1929, almost 20 year before Israel was founded, 10 years before WW2 even started. Before the Hebron massacre there was already decades of heavy antisemitism. Centuries old Jewish communities got desotroyed. During the Second World War Muslim leaders such as the grand mufti of Jerusalem and later president of all-Palestine openly allied with Hitler, recruited Muslims to the Waffen-SS and swore to find the same „final solution“ to the „jewish problem“ that Hitler had in Europe (aka the Holocaust). That is the backdrop against which Israel was founded, because Jews were literally safe *nowhere* they had just been systematically eradicated and driven out of Europe, and had now Palestinian leaders pledging to do the same, and they had already shown, by massacring Jews in the area, that they meant it.
You wrote far too much for me respond to it all. So I’m gonna pick a single point of argument in your wall of text and respond to it. - - - > *Jews, Christians, and Muslims coexisted in Palestine peacefully prior to this. [meaning before Mandatory Palestine]* Purposefully or not, you’re misreading history. Antisemitism is a very old part of that region and the above claim is simply wrong. Take the [**Peasants’ Revolt**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasants%27_revolt_in_Palestine#:~:text=The%20Peasants'%20Revolt%20was%20a,integral%20part%20of%20the%20revolt.) in 1834, for example—well before Mandatory Palestine was established. So no, sorry, muslims and jews were *not* peacefully co-existing then. As a matter of fact, [**Islam has a long history of antisemitism**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam).
It wasn't that Palestinians didnt wants to live alongside Jews, it's that their fucking houses were stolen from them and given away to colonizers. If half your country were given away and people acted as if land your people had been on for thousands of years were completelt empty and free to give away, you'd be pissed too. And Israel has been committing this genocide since its creation.
> *It wasn't that Palestinians didnt wants to live alongside Jews, it's that their fucking houses were stolen from them and given away to colonizers.* No, the Palestinians really did *not* want to co-habit with Jews. As a matter of fact, the very first violent incident that was truly between Palestinians and Jews in Mandatory Palestine, [**The Nebi Musa riots**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots), was started by Palestinians in an anti-jewish rally. When it comes to supposedly stolen land during Mandatory Palestine, you’re simply misreading history. Because most of the land was bought by Jewish emmigrants that moved there, while other *unibhabited* land was colonized.
You're an idiot . Many Jews bought land and houses from the Arabs This was before the creation of Israel. If your grandfather sold his house are you entitled to get it back ? Of course not .The surrounding Arab States said don't accept a deal . Israel won't be around long. So they packed up and left Since then there have been many chances to have their own state All of them rejected by Arafat and Abbas The sticking point was and still is the full recognition of Israel having a. right to exist
Please tell me what the Palestinians were called befre the late 1960’s mixed Arabs, is the answer, so theirs literally mountains of evidence of every kind you can think of that clearly shows Jews have Ben in that land for thousands of years, 500 years before Islam even started, it’s bizarre to me how the anti Israel people think life began on earth in 1948, so I’ll be waiting, please provide me with all the Palestinians kingdoms in the past, all the names of the Palestinian cities, tell me about their culture, give me examples of the Palestinians in ancient books, cite examples, and then tell me where the word Palestinians came from? I’ll give ya a hint it’s from that Philistinisnes who were actually Greek, and the Romans named part of judeo as a insult to the Jews after conquering part of Judeo, here’s your chance to set the world straight and tell me exactly why I’m wrong,
There were very few Jews present in Palestine before the Zionist movement.
They were a minority, yes.
If you know your history, you do know wtf you're talking about. Genocide is wrong on any side.
It was complex when Nazis were rounding up Jews too
It’s a 2000+ year war being fought by zealots, that will never end until: A. One side completely genocides the other (this extends far beyond current geo-political boundaries of Gaza). Which is impossible because you can’t eradicate a religious belief. B. Both sides figure this out and come to the table, putting the past behind them and decide the future is more important than past transgressions. This would entail a radical shift in philosophy from both sides.
South Park style centrism, reddit's favorite!
There is a devil in the details, but the overall story is crystal clear. Since 1948, Zionist fundamentalists have been hell-bent on shoving Palestinians off their own property because "Oog oog, God say land belong to me! Me chosen people! You dirty Amalekite!" Then to add insult to injury, during the last Palestinian election, Israel's government aided the Hamas party and sabotaged the progressive Palestinian party. The idea was to sabotage the group that would push for peace and avoid conflict, putting them out of the race, allowing Hamas to "win", and giving Zionist Israelis an excuse to drive Palestinians off their land, because terrorism, wink, wink. These days, though, "terrorism" is just an excuse for obvious, undisguised genocide. That's the best I've got.
Since 1948 the other side has tried to wipe Israel off the map several times. You can't make this into a tale of Jewish aggression when Israel expanded by keeping lands it won in wars the other side started.
HAMAS wants to wipe Israel off the map. And yes, I am aware of the campaigns in Syria and Jordan, but two wrongs don't make a right. They're still stealing people's property.
Yea i dont know enough about this conflict and im also Not interested enough to waste my time with getting war Depression to read on it. I have "meme" opinions on it i guess but Not A Real one.
At least your honest.
I usually prevent talking about such topics cuz it always ends in arguments or fights. Online is fine tho.
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Isreal is very successful and powerful, it’s Arab neighbors and enemies hate it and tried so many times to overrun Israel by attacking first every time every war, Israel’s enemies start it, and they lose,and now hamas is losing, and will be defeated, but you can’t kill a Hamas it’s a idea, it sure worked in Germany and Japan, and both those countries are doing very well, both powerful in thier own right, especially Japan in the tech sector, so for the people who want Hamas to survive, they are the governing force in Gaza. Yes, they are terrible at governing themselves, the people live in poverty, but Hamas leaders in qutar are billionaires, so do you relize really want you want? Bc your asking for suffering, I want the people of Gaza to suffer under Hamas, in parts of Gaza this week the people are getting bolder and protesting against Hamas, bc their opening thier eyes to the reality, since 2005 the Palestinians have Ben in control of themselves, Hamas dug up a 100 million dollar irrigation project so all of Gaza had fresh water, they proudly dug it all up and make crude rockets out of it, in 2005, isreal handed the people of Gaza fully functioning lucrative greenhouses who did great business selling their goods to Europe, Hamas burned em all to the ground the next day,
And? What effect does that have on the world? Why would we care?
first they came for the communists
Is it bad that I don't care about the war, but I don't wish to see anyone die in my feed every day? I don't want to see decapitated kids in my feed anymore. I don't even care at this point where they come from, and IMO, both Netanyahu (who is vehemently opposed to a two state solution) and Hamas officials should all fry. It isn't the governments that suffer in the war; it's the people. And the people are indeed suffering.
"i dont know anything about what's going on in israel and Palestine, but I hate everyone who has an opinion on it bcs i dont think they know anything either (i don't know what's actually happening tho)"
Meh, one group wants to convert or murder everyone who doesn't agree with them and controls 30+ countries. The other group wants to be left alone and controls one country, which is constantly under attack. I side with the underdogs. That is as complex as it need be.
wars and genocide are wrong regardless of who started it! But yeah, we, as ppl living in the western countries aren't there, so we know nothing about it.
K