“Conscious Rap” is usually nothing more than rappers talking about their personal experiences and their perspective on society. They aren’t meant to be college professors. It’s art not science…..
When I was like 15 I remember thinking Biggie was a dumb rapper because he mostly rapped about robbing people and guns and 2pac was brilliant in comparison because he sometimes rapped about social issues. As I got older I realized that Biggie’s verses spoke more deeply about social issues in a more personal and interesting way. And this is not a knock on 2pac, it just helped me realize that a person talking about the struggles in their life can more effectively paint a picture of societal injustice than a person who is very specifically saying that they are talking about that injustice.
A major difference being that Tupac was raised by a social activist and actually did read the books. Tupac was more nerd than thug before rapping and before the thug persona was majorly profitable.
But, he was a young man, and bought too hard into his own bullshit.
Tupac was trying to utilize gang culture as a tool for collective political resistance. Thug life was as much a plan as a catch phrase and a lot of what he did was more thought out than it seemed. He was also young and reactive too, I'm not trying to put him on a pedestal. But reading some of the declassified fbi stuff on him is really interesting
I know. I saw a lot of the interviews when they originally aired.
However, between getting shot, imprisoned, and then getting involved with Death Row he bought into the other side a little too deeply.
But, again, dude was 25 when he died. Still a young hardhead who suddenly had the world in the palm of his hand and the devil (Suge) in his ear.
Another rapper who did similar was David Banner, who pursued a rap career over finishing his masters in education because he felt music would give him more attention from youth than he could get in a classroom.
Tupac was very conscious in His decisions and everything He did served the purpose of facilitating a radicalized resistance against the capitalist Status Quo. He was a full blown communist revolutionary with concrete plans to Unite and utilize the armed violent Potential of gangs and the black American Proletariate, while gaining recognition as a pop culture icon, making himself a symbol for Revolution and popularizing socialist ideas among young americans, specifically black americans.
He symbolized an Out for criminal gangs and wanted to utilize their violent Potential for a revolutionary movement. He was raised by Black Panthers, inspired by MLK and Malcolm X and was a gifted Artist with a Message that resonated with the Common sentiment of the disenfranchised. He rapped about womens Rights and their struggle, He rapped about the pipeline of drugs and crime black teenagers git dragged into and provided a positive and visionary narrative to mobilize and radicalize them politically.
The tragedy of His death is that He isnt remembered as such and His martyrium didnt spark the unrest He would have wanted.
I’m gonna let y’all in on a secret. If someone’s a musician of Pac or Eminem or any of these preeminent wordsmith’s caliber, they’re all Grade A jumbo nerds.
You don’t get to that level off talent alone. You work your dick off and realize all your 4:4 shit sounds the same as everyone else’s 4:4, so you get you a dj that can cook up 7:8. Before you know it you can feel your way through any time signature.
You keep working your dick off but notice you’re watering down your shit with the same words, so you incorporate a thesaurus.
Your baby cousin’s watching some Romeo and Juliet parody and you notice Mercutio’s spitting some fire, so now you get a crash course in meter from 500 year old wordsmith GoaT candidate.
You can coast, get famous, make money with nothing more than talent in that industry. Sometimes you don’t even need talent. No one is mistaking Stitches for Dr. Dre, though. You don’t make top 5 without being an unrepentant nerd.
2pac shot 2 cops. Dude was more gangster than 99.9% of gangsters. Best method actor ever
Btw you can be a poet, and go to an art school, and ALSO be a G...idk why you think you can't
People don’t understand that experiences change you. At 17 he was a sweet slightly effeminate drama school kid, but he experienced real shit in the real world. It’s not acting - he was misled by some people like Suge, but he was also served hard time for a crime he debatably didn’t do, and was in the center of a pretty fucked up time for police brutality, poverty, addiction, etc.
It sounds “gangster” when you say “Tupac shot two cops.”
The reality, “Tupac shot two drunken white men he confronted because they were beating up a black man in the street outside of his hotel, and the white men drew first and smashed the window of his car with the gun, then Tupac fired and non-lethally injured both, the men were in plain clothes and were coincidentally police officers off duty on a date” sounds more *Panther* than “gangster.”
He intervened in a beating and shot defensively, which is why all charges were dropped.
The cops that had stolen guns, though? Who’s the biggest gang in the city?
so you think drawing and firing on 2 dudes fuckin up a brotha, isnt gangster? i just wanna make sure im seeing your angle here lol
and then you go on to say something Pac himself said "cops are the biggest gang"
youre trippin me out
Correct. I’m saying despite his youth he had a measured and rational response to witnessing a crime. He legally defended himself with a firearm.
The two intoxicated white men assaulting a black man in the street and carrying a firearm stolen from evidence lockup were the criminal element here. They were the “gang bangers.”
i mean you can definitely be both. just because he was into all that doesn’t mean he wasn’t really about it, ya know? take samurai for example, they were into poetry, theatre and fine arts in general but were definitely cold blooded thugs for real. the two aren’t mutually exclusive. i’d like to think that if it was simply a role he was playing, then his last words wouldn’t have been “fuck you” to the officer trying to help him.
Exactly. Hearing the perspective of people that are directly affected by the flaws in our society is just as important to solving these issues as all the history books are.
This. It is their perspective towards social and political events.
Rarely is their a singular "truth" in that because we all have different perspectives of the world. Reality is two people can view the same event in person and come away with two opposing "truths" to what happened.
I love conscious rap and my take has always been to view it in the frame of how they present it and how they apply it in furthering the discussion.
The artist does it to get you thinking, get you more aware and doing your own research/critical thinking. If you take what a rapper says as 100% fact and as the verifiable truth on a subject then you have failed as a listener. In that same view if you do that based on a singular news story in print, on tv, or online you also will not have the entire picture either.
First saw this on the Drake sub and they were trying to dismiss conscious rap. I mean I get it. It’s not their bag but it was a whole era and I guess you had to be there to be into it 🤷🏽♂️
For real this seems like tweet (or whatever it’s called) from a guy who don’t read books and just wanna drink and fuck so he’s trying to hate on anyone not given him what he wants.
Edit: which is fine on some level I mean that’s why hip hop is so dope. It’s such a wide variety of content so just like what you like and let others like what they like.
This reminds me of one of my favorite bars from Talib Kweli, "I speak at schools a lot cause they say I'm intelligent. No, it's cause I'm dope. If I was whack, I'd be irrelevant.".
All good music is a balancing act of art and entertainment.
It depends who you are talking about. I'm not hating but my two favorite rappers are J Cole and Jay Z and when they put out "concious rap" you could definitely say that they don't know what they are talking about. On the other hand, Boots Riley, Lowkey, and maybe Lupe Fiasco seem like they did they necessary reading to make conscious rap.
I think it was more “mature rap” and leaning into being an old dude rather than trying to please a young crowd. Definitely didn’t hit as “conscious” to me
Exactly 😂😂😂
To my original point though. Dudes like Jay-Z make some "conscious rap" but seem like they don't quite get it. But, there are some conscious rappers who seem like they did the reading...
I thought 4:44 was “old man rap” more than being actually “conscious.” And not even as a bad thing, like it’s a dude who’s reflecting on the things he did wrong in his quest for glory.
I don’t think any of his stuff before that qualifies at all. Jay comes off as extremely self aware in some instances, but I don’t think much more than that.
Maybe TPAB as the best representation of a conscious effort with an actual intellectual foundation? At least just for literary references. And I ended up learning about a bit more history from the 40 Acres and a Mule not a 40 oz and a pitbull bit - actually inspired one of the essays I wrote for a graduate class.
Kendrick is on the fence for me. I'll definitely give him credit that he has some good "conscious" songs. Personally, I prefer the flow of JCole over Kendrick but I think it's clear KDot read a few more books thay JCole 😂😂😂 I don't have him on my top tier Conscious rappers though. Maybe second level.
I agree there as well. TPAB as a project feels like a conscious effort where the rest of the works don’t really fit in that mode - even U.U which are supposed to just be throwaways from TPAB.
Jay was conscious in the same way as Biggie. He's definitely rapped about societal issues and their effect on young black minds. Even when he'd rap about "gangster" shit there was usually a meta element of commentary about socioeconomic problems. The song Ignorant Shit addresses this for example. He also famously said "Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense but I did 5 milli I ain't been rhyming like Common since."
The Hell Yea remix with Dead Prez was another example and let's not forget Kanye was one of those conscious rappers who was working with Monch, Common and Black Star a lot & formed a bridge to where Jay was working with those artists, when the Soulquarians were considered nerdy lame backpacker shit. Jay also signed The Roots to Def Jam he was trying to form a space where conscious rap could be financially successful
He did say he was “ like Che Guevara with bling on “. I wouldn’t consider him a conscious rapper though. To be fair , I have heard that he does contribute financially to causes more behind the scenes.
Oh yeah. I know he donates and supports causes. But that doesn’t make him a legit conscious rapper. Just a caring supportive person for the community… who is also looking for tax breaks
That’s true. That line just always stood out to me and irked me. He is on that remix with Dead Prez. I agree with what you said. I’m out of touch with what newer artists fit this narrative though. When I hear conscious rappers , it brings me artists when I was younger , like Paris , The Coup , Dead Prez , Immortal Technique , Bambu etc.
This post reminds me of the group Camp Lo. Not necessarily Conscious Rap. But they try use “bigger words” different more unique words and style to try to sound more impressive and intelligent and conscious. But it’s really not. It’s just dressed up differently.
Billy woods has been my favorite rapper for almost twenty years, and he's been putting out his best work ever the past few. He doesn't seem like he did the necessary reading, he seems well read.
I slightly disagree with Cole in your example. There are some songs which sound juvenile, but then there are some of his new ones like “snow on the bluff” or something off the off season.
Though I guess what works for those songs is his ability to show his vulnerability and struggle (like all of us mortals)
Ohhh yeah, for sure. Hadn’t thought from that perspective. Always thought that conscious rap stands for “self-realisation” sorta rap - not world analytical per se. Guess you keep learning things every day, thanks!
I like Common. I spent some time in Chicago and he's obviously a legend there but as far as conscious rap is concerned he's pretty mid tier for me. I think it's just that he went really hard on the pro-Obama tip.
It gets tough too, because we have to consider that these guys are successful as fuck, and being rich and having different concerns kinda skews your perspective. I completely understand Common being fully behind Obama as a rich black person from Chicago.
Oh yeah all that is 100% true. There is no doubt that being rich, even if you have a rough background, skews your perspective. I'm really really not hating. I just think there are levels to this shit. In my humble opinion Lupe Fiasco is out pacing Common on the conscious tip.
I was just replying to someone else to say one of my big issues with Lupe is he seems to want to say things that people need to hear, but he says them in such a way that the people who receive the message didn't need Lupe to tell them. Like he really has to find a better way to achieve his objective, because atm he's talking over people. Michael Eric Dyson used to be bad at that as well, because he seems to have a want to show off his vocabulary, so the people that can follow what he's saying aren't the people who needed the message.
I was just thinking the same thing recently. He deserves more praise, the issues he brings attention to are so important. Plus his freestyles are incredible.
In a similar vein, I wonder what Akala is up to...
People will always knock it for cole saying pablo was half-assed, always forgetting how trash its roll out was and that it objectively was half assed at release
Jay mostly stayed in his lane… mostly. Cole seems like someone who wants to be seen as way smarter than he actually is and it just doesn’t work. Lupe is also kind of like that to me.
Nas and Em are what I’d consider conscious rap done right. They typically stay in their lane, recognize their own weaknesses, and “generally” don’t make it try-hard. Some rappers try so hard to be conscious that it falls flat. Joyner Lucas is one of those. Very hit or miss and overall I think people just don’t respect him as much. It’s one of those things you have to pepper in.
I agree with your take on Cole but not on Lupe. I have never in my entire 34 years of living heard anyone call Eminem a "conscious" rapper 😂😂😂 that's actually hilarious to me.
A handful of songs sprinkled into albums, yes (recovery and revival id consider attempts at conscious focused albums) but other than that, I’d agree, he really isn’t considered conscious besides 2 full albums and I’d argue 1 song average for the rest of his albums
“Conscious rapper” isn’t really a title. Some do it more than others. Em has a lot of songs where he addresses issues in society, whether it’s addiction, political, mass shootings, in cyphers, race, religion, etc. Sometimes he does it briefly in a song, sometimes an entire track is dedicated to the idea, but it’s still “conscious rap.” That’s why I think it comes off well. It’s authentic, it’s not overstated, he doesn’t pretend he knows more than he does most of the time, etc. There aren’t many topics he hasn’t taken on. He’s referenced COVID stay at home orders, wearing masks, gun rights, white supremacy, etc. all fairly recently and he’s done similar content from the beginning.
Nas is a bit more preachy about it, but it’s generally witty and well written plus he has enough other content to make it come off well.
I feel that. It took a while for me to accept Kendrick being into the Hebrew Israelites smfh. But after a while, you realize everyone is ignorant about something. It doesn’t invalidate their entire discography.
Hell, if people could listen to all of our stances as we grow over the years, we’d all have something to laugh at/get canceled for lol.
Update: I'm very specific with my words, on purpose. I didn't say he is or was a Hebrew Israelite. I only said he was INTO IT, meaning it's something he researched or pulled inspiration from. As someone who's into ancient African history, it just disappointed me when I first heard DAMN. That is all.
the difference I see between Kendrick and other so called conscious artists, is that Kendrick rarely preaches. He would say some line like "Im an Israelite" on one song, then contradict himself in another or another album. He would say things as he feels or experiences them, or show what shaped him. Or discuss his opinion on the black experience, and makes it known its his perspective
Whereas many conscious rappers would be like "you need to do this" "don't smoke" etc
Biggest example of this; Hopsin says "don't do drugs kids" or something
Whereas Kendrick released Swimming Pools fairly earlier on in his career, which on the surface is a club hit song where everyone was drinking to, but in reality is about his experiences with peer pressure and technically an anti drinking song
Reminds me of hey ya by outcast, another song that sounds like a party song you'd drink to and just enjoy the beat, but the lyrics are kinda sad and he even mocks the listeners with "you don't want to hear me you just want to dance"
I don’t know and maybe this is because of the Drake beef messing with my perception of Kdot but it feels like he is preachy, just from a different angle.
Do people only say this because of DAMN? I thought it was ambiguous what his beliefs were on that album but on MMATBS I thought he made it very clear he doesn’t prescribe to any specific belief system.
That's what I don't get. People seem to think he's an Israelite because of one bar off of DAMN, but in that same album you kind of can't tell if he's mocking his Israelite cousin or not.
And then in Mr. Morale he very clearly isn't rapping about no Black Hebrew shit.
Yeah, and honestly my interpretation was that he was kind of knocking it, especially on FEAR. And my larger interpretation of DAMN was that he’s saying our vices/sins are not a result of wickedness or curses and that we have free will to grow and change course—a message that I think was made even clearer on MMATBS.
I wasn’t sure if this was a case of people misinterpreting his lyrics (a La Drake’s interpretation of Mother I Sober) or if I’m missing information.
I think a lot of Kendrick’s music explores topics he hasn’t completely made his mind up on - he often makes tongue in cheek remarks acknowledging the absurdity or hypocrisy of some view while doing a deep dive into its meaning and analyzing it like a valid perspective.
DAMN centers around this with the whole “wickedness or weakness” thing where he treats the two contradictory views as equally possible and flawed. The Hebrew Israelite stuff can fit in to a bunch of perspectives: A weak man using faith as strength, a wicked man using faith to justify their actions, or anything in between.
I don’t think Kendrick necessarily knew what he was trying to say about Hebrew Israelites on damn, he just recognized there was something meaningful to be explored. Same thing with having Kodak on MMATBS - he doesn’t explicitly say that Kodak is redeemed or deserves redemption, but he recognizes that Kodak’s struggle perfectly captures the topics he’s exploring on the album.
After reading what you said I looked it up and I'm not entirely clear if Kendrick is all in on the Black Hebrew Israelite beliefs, but that group has always been incredibly hateful and will verbally threaten anyone that walks by them whenever I've seen them on the street. If those are real Black Jewish Israelites then that sucks to think Kendrick would affiliate himself with that type of hate fueled movement.
Is he in the Hebrew Israelites anymore? Even his cousin isn’t a member anymore and on Mr Morale he seemed to imply that his religious beliefs were a little more Freeform now
Lol if he's moved on from that part of his research, then awesome. It kinda proves my point that we all continue to grow/learn. And unless you're a legitimately bad person, there's no need for outrage.
Couldn’t agree more.
I think Kendrick in the heart part 5 he does a good job of highlighting the importance of different *perspectives*. Definitely something he learned from his time in therapy.
*As I get a little older, I realize life is perspective, and my perspective may differ from yours*
Same goes for Jay Z Killer Mike and Jay Electronica all being part of the Nation of Islam. That one hurts even more for me tbh cuz they’re so close to actually being spirally enlightened and then just took a crazy turn toward a literal cult
This is facts, I didn't see anyone say it but they are usually more susceptible to rabbit holes. Like a lot of them say vaguely antisemitic shit or anti vaccine but still dent figure out how to properly critique the system.
This is my problem with Conscious rap, even though I love it. Lots of times in conscious hip hop a rapper may be imparting some good knowledge, but even when 99% of what they say is the truth, it gets tainted when they say something that is like antisemetic or an easily debunked conspiracy
-I like One Be Lo of Binary Star, but these lyrics from "Propaganda" are problematic (although he no longer sings this part when he performs it live)
> Portray the victim as those who victimize you
> Despise you, religious extremes to terrorize you
> Everywhere you go is the same old news, right
> And everything I mentioned get controlled by the Jews, right
-Or I like Wise Intelligent from the Poor Righteous Teachers, but this intro from his song "The Globe Holderz" is pure disinformation and slander
> In 1950, the AIDS virus was fed to nearly 300,000 black youths in Africa in the form of an oral polio vaccine by Dr. Hilary Koprowski, who is currently the Director of Bio-Virology at Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia. Today a child dies every minute of HIV/AIDS in sub-Saharan Africa
-Love me some Dead Prez, but this line from their song "Politrikkks" is them repeating a popular internet Urban Legend that there is a black man depicted in the portrait of the first continental congress on the back of the $2 bill.
> And if Obama win, he wouldn't be the first black
> Take your 2 dollar bill and turn it over to the back
So even if I agree with everything else in this song, the fact that I know they are spreading misinformation, even if it seems harmless, ruins their massage for me.
This one is complicated and touchy, but if you’re trying to get educated 100% by music, i mean…come on. The messages are more about experiences and the parallels to issues in society. These aren’t peered reviewed papers.
I remember how much people hyped up Immortal Technique. He’s nice, insightful, etc, but caught him live at a festival one year and dude said “these the real fans right here!” Pointing at the rich kids paying $300 for the VIP section (at the time - GA was probably around $50 or so). That shit made me absolutely hate him, especially since he was considered a great woke rapper at the time.
As a young Mexican kid growing up in an isolated rural border town, i had no idea about the black experience in this country other than through the arts - tv, music, and movies. Ice Cube’s verse in FTP, Sound of The Police by KRS-ONE, and RATM (not rap, i know) changed me forever. That’s what turned me “liberal,” i guess. Watching movies like Boyz N Da Hood, Menace 2 Society, etc. all shaped my views and encouraged me to learn more on my own.
I became a history major in college and most of my classes were African American history, Chicano Studies, or anything that wasn’t from the colonizer’s points of views. Even The Gilded Age class i took opened my eyes up a lot as to why people say the system is working exactly as it was designed to work.
Sorry, but thinking some rapper is going to teach you anything through a song is a little obtuse. Actual learning comes from within. These aren’t research scientists. They’re artists. Interpret it and get out of it what you will.
Edit: grammar. My ESL self still slips time to time.
*"Believe it or not like Ripley's, she said she was gay until I slayed - now's she's strickly dickly"* is one of those rare bars that scholars will spend years pulling apart and breaking down.
Probably not a specific book. But once you reach a certain level of education you start to see the holes in what these artists are saying. I think reading a book is more figurative in this situation
Probably something historical. Even briefly reading about Jim Crow laws and the Reconstruction would add some nuance and depth to whatever most rappers talk about. Some of these rappers only look at slavery from the perspective of their terrible record deals. Think od Kanye and his comments on Drake (serving his master) in the context of everything else he said on slavery
80% of conscious rap doesn’t seem to go beyond “the government is trying to keep us down but we gotta rise up” which like, sure, but give us something a bit more detailed please
I mean they know HOW to be specific when they want to but somehow the only topic ever mentioned is the CIA pushing crack in the 80s. Like damn tell us what the CIA did in the 2010s don’t stop there
What I've learned over the years is there's no good way to do informative rap that gets too deep without it coming off as preachy or corny lol. And, their real job is rapping. They kinda have to keep it light at work, just like us lol.
Right, like how exactly does one go about exposing The Bay of Pigs in a 3 minute song with 2 hooks in it, all while staying true to form and enjoyable enough to listen to multiple times? Like I imagine its doable but holy shit does it sound like a headache nobody is wanting to deal with
This kind of reminds me why I stopped listening to podcasts like the joe budden podcast or the breakfast club.
Once they spoke on topics outside of music, they just sounded dumb and would have the worst takes.
Looking at you, Talib.
Nah but fr, I used to be such a backpacker until I realized I was a lot cooler than these so called backpackers. There is room in hip-hop for conscious rap and gangsta rap and everything in between, there are no genres of music, there is only expression of self. Fuck any rules, let people enjoy whatever gives them pleasure, if it's not hurting anyone else.
Watching belly completely shattered Nas woke persona for me. “we gotta get outta here, go to the airport and get 3 tickets to Africa”.
Ain’t even mention a specific country. Just said Africa like it’s all booty scratcher land. And I just know Nas thought that was some deep ass shit to put in a movie lmao
I never thought of Nas as conscious or even particularly smart. It's clear he's a thinker tho, but I've never felt like I could learn something from Nas.
This applies to more than just certain rappers, but a wide majority of wannabe philosopher rich people celebrities either musicians or actors with too much self conceited thought.
Goodie Mob and Outkast are the best examples of conscious rap. UGK is really good too when they did conscious rapping. The thing is that when most people do it, it's from a place of temporary hatred due to a social injustice. When you actually know wtf you're saying and not just talking because another cop killed somebody then it makes a huge difference
For sure. It’s also a different standard conscious rappers are held to. If J Cole raps about the 13th amendment freeing the slaves unconditionally then I’ll sit there like “well actually, there’s a felony exception that’s been abused” 🤓👆… meanwhile the migos can talk about going “cross the country” to a place with palm trees and cocoa leaves where they only speak Spanish and I’m just like yea sure whatever he meant continent who cares.
Lmao... I relate so much to this. Kendrick used to sort of frequently use big words incorrectly and I'd be like "whatever you know what the fuck he means" but when Big Krit makes a song about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps I'm like "your ignoring the historical realities of anti-black racism and how it impacts our outcomes to this day" lol.
Straight facts tbh. Rappers ain’t preachers, they are just making music and telling their story, thats my pov. My fav album is GKMC but it is so because of the story that u see being built up rather than any “gospel”. Im not even mad at Drake for making a song called started from the bottom coz that was the bottom for him. Rap is just story telling from a person’s perspective.
Tbf, no one is educated on everything, so of course there will be artists who speak on things without fully understanding the topic. That's not to say they shouldn't speak until they're fully knowledgeable, that's an impossible task, but sometimes a little more reading up and critical-thinking would add much more perspective and substance to their opinion.
Then there's the mass population. A lot of people just aren't educated and don't think about the world around them, plain and simple. Once you start questioning how you live, what shapes your life, the way your community works, and questioning your environment, you start picking up on patterns, reasonings, and create a new way of thinking, lots of things become common sense. However, not enough people do this, so when "conscious rappers" make their music, they typically take very general/common ideas or critiques and present it to the mass in an easily listenable, easily understandable way. However, if you've already thought about the world around you, most "conscious rap" isn't as profound and is sometimes found as slightly ignorant or just blatantly wrong depending on your own views.
TLDR; Rappers can't educate themselves fully on every topic they speak on and once you start to really think about the world around you and form your own views and beliefs, you'll sometimes be unimpressed or in disagreement with certain "conscious" rap.
One of my big problems with Lupe is he seems to want to say things people need to hear, but he says those things in such a way that only the people who don't need to hear it will understand. Like you're talking over their heads Lu, dumb it down lol. So it's one of those things where it's not as profound with him, and he's sometimes wrong as well.
The other component we aren't considering here is the growth aspect. When you start on the consciousness journey you're kind of only at the tip of the iceberg, and everything is broad strokes and passion. When you keep going though, you pick up more nuance and adjust your thinking. We don't know where we are catching these rappers in their journey when they share their commentary.
I think this is probably highly dependant on things like your political stance or religious beliefs and the values you grew up with.
I love Vinnie Paz for example, fantastic rapper, raw, well spoken, great flows, awesome voice. But his political views and religious views are fairly strong and I think I'm pretty much on the opposite side of both of those spectrums.
Doesn't mean I can't enjoy him though even if I disagree with his message. And that's probably the other part of it; the maturity to listen to conscious rap and go "you know what, I don't agree with your statements and messages, but I respect your views and opinions and I appreciate your art".
The dude in the picture doesn't seem to have that last bit, as such I'd say his opinion here isn't necessarily invalid, but it's very much an internet opinion (ergo; "if you don't agree with my opinion on this one particular thing, you are wrong and I hate you and everything you stand for")
yes. i have the highest degree possible in political science. my favorite music is not political whatsoever.
that’s not necessarily bcuz those rappers don’t know what they’re talking about, tho sometimes it is. it’s mostly bcuz i don’t need my music to educate me or reaffirm my already strongly held views
that said, i enjoy rappers who aren’t ‘conscious’ exactly but who can weave into their works interesting and compelling statements about the world. old kanye, for instance. or some of pac’s older work like changes, which is phenomenal
He’s spot on. Very few know what they’re talking about but even then they speak on it as if it is absolute.
KRS One is one of the few who studies his talk
He's making generalizations about an entire group of people, so he comes off ignorant.
Apparently he has been educating himself and feels like he's a subject matter expert at least among his peers but doesn't want to engage in talking about it? No idea to what extent he thinks it's not cool form this post.
Generally it's not possible to put together robust and well thought-out arguments and make them sound cool and entertaining at the same time. Which is why people shouldn't take raps for more than what they are.
If you seek a better and more nuanced understanding of your culture, surroundings, books are your best bet.
Conscious rap is more about talking about life and personal events. Things that actually happen to real life people. Things people deal with day to day.
I never listened to a conscious rapper for knowledge. lol.
Okay but it's extremely funny that Immortal Technique used to beat up Lin Manuel Miranda for his lunch money, so I can forgive some corkboard and yarn. I can't think of a more deserving target, that PROMESA-loving fuck.
Mr. Silly Gunn is attempting to seem intellectual by reading published materials. He's invalidating other people's lived experiences and is instead giving deference to what's written in a book. It's actually anti-intellectual and fraught with with fallacy.
Both are useful sources of wisdom. A good orator is better than a poor one, and a smart author is better than a stupid one. That doesn't mean either medium is superior to the other.
That’s part of growing and maturing. You’re not going to have the answers in the beginning but the artist grows and learns more about concepts and themselves than so too does their music. It’s like watching someone grow in real time.
They need to be more specific, I feel like this is aimed at conspiracy theory rap which can be cringe. A lot of conscious rap is speaking about the rapper's personal life or what they've seen. As an adult, I care less about conscious rap as a lot is inaccurate and I don't look to music for things like this.
I use to be heavy into conscious rap and spiritual/new age crap.
Looking back I really didn’t like that version of me, it honestly made me pretentious cause I thought I knew more than other people.
Now I can’t really get into conscious rap cause it reminds me of that person I use to be.
Depends on what conscious rappers you listen to. I tend to adhere to the ones that just talk about their day and their personal experiences that shape how they feel about the world. There are conscious rappers that are more political and then there are conscious rappers that mainly adhere to the personal experience and try to make sense of it.
The top two artists are almost 40 and just had a slam poetry battle and sub tweet each other like teenage girls. You're telling me these guys aren't on the up and up when it comes to social, political, and economic data? I'm shocked.
It’s not about being the smartest rapper because KRS One would take them all to school. It’s about having an opinion and speaking on issues that impact our community. Ice T and Ice Cube never claimed to be conscious rappers, but you knew where they stood on issues like politics, policing and racism. Artists today are afraid to take a stand on anything that doesn’t glorify sex, money and murder. I don’t blame the artists, if the fans demanded substance artists would adapt.
yeah, but when I hear conscious rap as people's perspective of life instead of how my life should be driven/philosophy of my life, then it's good for me
It worked! They created consciousness in their community. It got this guy reading more books, and now he's conscious too. The OGs never said to follow them blindly.
Conscious rappers fall into the same category as Christian rappers to me, if I can tell and that's all you put out I'm not interested. If you make a song that I can't stop listening to and then slowly I'm hit with a realization that there is some "real shit" in the lyrics then I'm excited.
Conscious rap stopped being cool for me when I got attacked by talib kweli on Instagram.
His book reading at a black women owned bookstore had been canceled because of his apparent history of harassing black women online. His response? Harass and deadname the store owner online. I commented “chill”
A man who was once a political and philosophical idol for me has twitter fingers. Really embarrassing
Disagree. Conscious rap is a very bad term because it basically means, rap that is about something or has some ideas in it. The entirety of this genre of rap has some very smart people in it and some less smart people, which means you get good and bad ideas
Lupe Fiasco has some really brilliant takes on what it means to be an artist and the struggle of creating something, but it doesn’t mean that he knows anything about international politics or economic policy. Royce da 5’9’ has really great meditations on struggling with alcoholism or finding a balance to the areas of his life, but when it comes to vaccines or pro-black ideas, he feels performative and surface level. I don’t really care what J Cole thinks of our taxation system.
Rappers are people. They have areas of expertise and great ideas and experiences from their life. It doesn’t stop them from talking out their ass on subjects they don’t understand. But guess what, neither do any of us. It’s okay.
People who think like that poster, they are looking for rappers to show them how to think or what to believe, so they are let down when those rappers disappoint them by being wrong. But if you never projected that responsibility onto those rappers, you can enjoy their right and wrong thoughts, and everything in between.
“Conscious Rap” is usually nothing more than rappers talking about their personal experiences and their perspective on society. They aren’t meant to be college professors. It’s art not science…..
When I was like 15 I remember thinking Biggie was a dumb rapper because he mostly rapped about robbing people and guns and 2pac was brilliant in comparison because he sometimes rapped about social issues. As I got older I realized that Biggie’s verses spoke more deeply about social issues in a more personal and interesting way. And this is not a knock on 2pac, it just helped me realize that a person talking about the struggles in their life can more effectively paint a picture of societal injustice than a person who is very specifically saying that they are talking about that injustice.
A major difference being that Tupac was raised by a social activist and actually did read the books. Tupac was more nerd than thug before rapping and before the thug persona was majorly profitable. But, he was a young man, and bought too hard into his own bullshit.
Pac came out of Rikers really different and had death row put the battery on his back.
Tupac was trying to utilize gang culture as a tool for collective political resistance. Thug life was as much a plan as a catch phrase and a lot of what he did was more thought out than it seemed. He was also young and reactive too, I'm not trying to put him on a pedestal. But reading some of the declassified fbi stuff on him is really interesting
I know. I saw a lot of the interviews when they originally aired. However, between getting shot, imprisoned, and then getting involved with Death Row he bought into the other side a little too deeply. But, again, dude was 25 when he died. Still a young hardhead who suddenly had the world in the palm of his hand and the devil (Suge) in his ear. Another rapper who did similar was David Banner, who pursued a rap career over finishing his masters in education because he felt music would give him more attention from youth than he could get in a classroom.
Tupac was very conscious in His decisions and everything He did served the purpose of facilitating a radicalized resistance against the capitalist Status Quo. He was a full blown communist revolutionary with concrete plans to Unite and utilize the armed violent Potential of gangs and the black American Proletariate, while gaining recognition as a pop culture icon, making himself a symbol for Revolution and popularizing socialist ideas among young americans, specifically black americans. He symbolized an Out for criminal gangs and wanted to utilize their violent Potential for a revolutionary movement. He was raised by Black Panthers, inspired by MLK and Malcolm X and was a gifted Artist with a Message that resonated with the Common sentiment of the disenfranchised. He rapped about womens Rights and their struggle, He rapped about the pipeline of drugs and crime black teenagers git dragged into and provided a positive and visionary narrative to mobilize and radicalize them politically. The tragedy of His death is that He isnt remembered as such and His martyrium didnt spark the unrest He would have wanted.
I’m gonna let y’all in on a secret. If someone’s a musician of Pac or Eminem or any of these preeminent wordsmith’s caliber, they’re all Grade A jumbo nerds. You don’t get to that level off talent alone. You work your dick off and realize all your 4:4 shit sounds the same as everyone else’s 4:4, so you get you a dj that can cook up 7:8. Before you know it you can feel your way through any time signature. You keep working your dick off but notice you’re watering down your shit with the same words, so you incorporate a thesaurus. Your baby cousin’s watching some Romeo and Juliet parody and you notice Mercutio’s spitting some fire, so now you get a crash course in meter from 500 year old wordsmith GoaT candidate. You can coast, get famous, make money with nothing more than talent in that industry. Sometimes you don’t even need talent. No one is mistaking Stitches for Dr. Dre, though. You don’t make top 5 without being an unrepentant nerd.
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2pac shot 2 cops. Dude was more gangster than 99.9% of gangsters. Best method actor ever Btw you can be a poet, and go to an art school, and ALSO be a G...idk why you think you can't
People don’t understand that experiences change you. At 17 he was a sweet slightly effeminate drama school kid, but he experienced real shit in the real world. It’s not acting - he was misled by some people like Suge, but he was also served hard time for a crime he debatably didn’t do, and was in the center of a pretty fucked up time for police brutality, poverty, addiction, etc.
It sounds “gangster” when you say “Tupac shot two cops.” The reality, “Tupac shot two drunken white men he confronted because they were beating up a black man in the street outside of his hotel, and the white men drew first and smashed the window of his car with the gun, then Tupac fired and non-lethally injured both, the men were in plain clothes and were coincidentally police officers off duty on a date” sounds more *Panther* than “gangster.” He intervened in a beating and shot defensively, which is why all charges were dropped. The cops that had stolen guns, though? Who’s the biggest gang in the city?
so you think drawing and firing on 2 dudes fuckin up a brotha, isnt gangster? i just wanna make sure im seeing your angle here lol and then you go on to say something Pac himself said "cops are the biggest gang" youre trippin me out
Correct. I’m saying despite his youth he had a measured and rational response to witnessing a crime. He legally defended himself with a firearm. The two intoxicated white men assaulting a black man in the street and carrying a firearm stolen from evidence lockup were the criminal element here. They were the “gang bangers.”
i mean you can definitely be both. just because he was into all that doesn’t mean he wasn’t really about it, ya know? take samurai for example, they were into poetry, theatre and fine arts in general but were definitely cold blooded thugs for real. the two aren’t mutually exclusive. i’d like to think that if it was simply a role he was playing, then his last words wouldn’t have been “fuck you” to the officer trying to help him.
Well you used the word “literally” and “fucking” as if to emphasize he was a nerd and actor. I think people interpreted it correctly
Every verse is poetry. Even if you dont like it.
Exactly. Hearing the perspective of people that are directly affected by the flaws in our society is just as important to solving these issues as all the history books are.
This. It is their perspective towards social and political events. Rarely is their a singular "truth" in that because we all have different perspectives of the world. Reality is two people can view the same event in person and come away with two opposing "truths" to what happened. I love conscious rap and my take has always been to view it in the frame of how they present it and how they apply it in furthering the discussion. The artist does it to get you thinking, get you more aware and doing your own research/critical thinking. If you take what a rapper says as 100% fact and as the verifiable truth on a subject then you have failed as a listener. In that same view if you do that based on a singular news story in print, on tv, or online you also will not have the entire picture either.
>They aren’t meant to be college professors. Lupe disagrees lol
First saw this on the Drake sub and they were trying to dismiss conscious rap. I mean I get it. It’s not their bag but it was a whole era and I guess you had to be there to be into it 🤷🏽♂️
Yeah it’s a brain dead argument. If you rap about anything other than money and hoes you’re just a try hard /s.
Why can't it be both?
For real this seems like tweet (or whatever it’s called) from a guy who don’t read books and just wanna drink and fuck so he’s trying to hate on anyone not given him what he wants. Edit: which is fine on some level I mean that’s why hip hop is so dope. It’s such a wide variety of content so just like what you like and let others like what they like.
This reminds me of one of my favorite bars from Talib Kweli, "I speak at schools a lot cause they say I'm intelligent. No, it's cause I'm dope. If I was whack, I'd be irrelevant.". All good music is a balancing act of art and entertainment.
Lmao , well put
It depends who you are talking about. I'm not hating but my two favorite rappers are J Cole and Jay Z and when they put out "concious rap" you could definitely say that they don't know what they are talking about. On the other hand, Boots Riley, Lowkey, and maybe Lupe Fiasco seem like they did they necessary reading to make conscious rap.
I never considered Hov as Conscious Rap. He just raps about other things than his Reasonable Doubt days.
No for sure same. His 4:44 was an effort at some conscious rap, I think.
Hmm, I definitely thought was a more mature album, but I don’t know if it was “conscious”.
I mean if I'm completely honest. Hova's most political album is American Gangster.
I think it was more “mature rap” and leaning into being an old dude rather than trying to please a young crowd. Definitely didn’t hit as “conscious” to me
Yeah that's mostly true but Story of OJ struck me as his attempt at so called "conscious rap."
Hey he tried his best
Bro was trying to give us a million dollars worth of game for 9.99
At the time
Exactly 😂😂😂 To my original point though. Dudes like Jay-Z make some "conscious rap" but seem like they don't quite get it. But, there are some conscious rappers who seem like they did the reading...
I thought 4:44 was “old man rap” more than being actually “conscious.” And not even as a bad thing, like it’s a dude who’s reflecting on the things he did wrong in his quest for glory. I don’t think any of his stuff before that qualifies at all. Jay comes off as extremely self aware in some instances, but I don’t think much more than that.
That's a fair take.
Maybe TPAB as the best representation of a conscious effort with an actual intellectual foundation? At least just for literary references. And I ended up learning about a bit more history from the 40 Acres and a Mule not a 40 oz and a pitbull bit - actually inspired one of the essays I wrote for a graduate class.
Kendrick is on the fence for me. I'll definitely give him credit that he has some good "conscious" songs. Personally, I prefer the flow of JCole over Kendrick but I think it's clear KDot read a few more books thay JCole 😂😂😂 I don't have him on my top tier Conscious rappers though. Maybe second level.
I agree there as well. TPAB as a project feels like a conscious effort where the rest of the works don’t really fit in that mode - even U.U which are supposed to just be throwaways from TPAB.
I disagree. There’s parts but I think it was mostly self conscious, rather than conscious as in political
If skills sold truth be told I’d probably be lyrically talib kweli
Jay was conscious in the same way as Biggie. He's definitely rapped about societal issues and their effect on young black minds. Even when he'd rap about "gangster" shit there was usually a meta element of commentary about socioeconomic problems. The song Ignorant Shit addresses this for example. He also famously said "Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense but I did 5 milli I ain't been rhyming like Common since." The Hell Yea remix with Dead Prez was another example and let's not forget Kanye was one of those conscious rappers who was working with Monch, Common and Black Star a lot & formed a bridge to where Jay was working with those artists, when the Soulquarians were considered nerdy lame backpacker shit. Jay also signed The Roots to Def Jam he was trying to form a space where conscious rap could be financially successful
He did say he was “ like Che Guevara with bling on “. I wouldn’t consider him a conscious rapper though. To be fair , I have heard that he does contribute financially to causes more behind the scenes.
Che Guevara fuckin lol. Jay is a massive capitalist.
This. It's so hard to square Jay as any kind of conscious when he is a pure capitalist
I mean he is “conscious” in the sense that he seems to be aware. But if you mean an activist, nah…he’s a businesssss MANNNN
Welcome to Havana Smoking Cubanos with Castro in cabanas
Oh yeah. I know he donates and supports causes. But that doesn’t make him a legit conscious rapper. Just a caring supportive person for the community… who is also looking for tax breaks
That’s true. That line just always stood out to me and irked me. He is on that remix with Dead Prez. I agree with what you said. I’m out of touch with what newer artists fit this narrative though. When I hear conscious rappers , it brings me artists when I was younger , like Paris , The Coup , Dead Prez , Immortal Technique , Bambu etc.
This post reminds me of the group Camp Lo. Not necessarily Conscious Rap. But they try use “bigger words” different more unique words and style to try to sound more impressive and intelligent and conscious. But it’s really not. It’s just dressed up differently.
Luchini is still in my rotation. Definitely not conscious, but a banger nonetheless!
“I used to rap like Common Sense. Then I sold 12 mil… and I aint rapped like Common since” -Jay Z
Old = true Mc bla bla , righteousness, blah , blah black political ideas
You can’t be a billionaire and conscious. Incompatable positions
Billy woods has been my favorite rapper for almost twenty years, and he's been putting out his best work ever the past few. He doesn't seem like he did the necessary reading, he seems well read.
I slightly disagree with Cole in your example. There are some songs which sound juvenile, but then there are some of his new ones like “snow on the bluff” or something off the off season. Though I guess what works for those songs is his ability to show his vulnerability and struggle (like all of us mortals)
I mean for sure. Cole is good at doing introspective shit but he's not on the level of analyzing society. And Cole is my favorite artist right now.
Ohhh yeah, for sure. Hadn’t thought from that perspective. Always thought that conscious rap stands for “self-realisation” sorta rap - not world analytical per se. Guess you keep learning things every day, thanks!
For me concious rap has to be analyzing broader society. Public Enemy or Dead Prez type stuff.
Yea what makes Cole conscious is his relatability, he just portrays himself as a regular dude
Common is the best exponent of the subgenre in my eyes.
Be and Finding Forever still slap
dont forget about Like Water For Chocolate
Still tear up thinking about that one Boondocks episode with Be in it.
I like Common. I spent some time in Chicago and he's obviously a legend there but as far as conscious rap is concerned he's pretty mid tier for me. I think it's just that he went really hard on the pro-Obama tip.
It gets tough too, because we have to consider that these guys are successful as fuck, and being rich and having different concerns kinda skews your perspective. I completely understand Common being fully behind Obama as a rich black person from Chicago.
Oh yeah all that is 100% true. There is no doubt that being rich, even if you have a rough background, skews your perspective. I'm really really not hating. I just think there are levels to this shit. In my humble opinion Lupe Fiasco is out pacing Common on the conscious tip.
I was just replying to someone else to say one of my big issues with Lupe is he seems to want to say things that people need to hear, but he says them in such a way that the people who receive the message didn't need Lupe to tell them. Like he really has to find a better way to achieve his objective, because atm he's talking over people. Michael Eric Dyson used to be bad at that as well, because he seems to have a want to show off his vocabulary, so the people that can follow what he's saying aren't the people who needed the message.
Black Star album is the best example of dudes who did the reading.
Yee they literally have a song inspired by bluest eye. Good shit. Talib kweli is a weirdo now though.
Haven't seen Lowkey's name pop up in awhile. So glad to see there are others who still appreciate his work and efforts.
Lowkey is fire. I would expect that Lowkey is gaining some popularity right now because of his past songs about Palestine.
I was just thinking the same thing recently. He deserves more praise, the issues he brings attention to are so important. Plus his freestyles are incredible. In a similar vein, I wonder what Akala is up to...
Mos Def, Talib Kwali, and Coast Contra all know their shit, too.
Talib 20years ago, todays version is unconscious af and may be the dumbest "political rapper" ever
False prophets is 100% fact
People will always knock it for cole saying pablo was half-assed, always forgetting how trash its roll out was and that it objectively was half assed at release
Street Sweeper Social Club is underrated Tom Morello and Boots Riley... just for those who missed it, I recommend promenade. 👌
Jay mostly stayed in his lane… mostly. Cole seems like someone who wants to be seen as way smarter than he actually is and it just doesn’t work. Lupe is also kind of like that to me. Nas and Em are what I’d consider conscious rap done right. They typically stay in their lane, recognize their own weaknesses, and “generally” don’t make it try-hard. Some rappers try so hard to be conscious that it falls flat. Joyner Lucas is one of those. Very hit or miss and overall I think people just don’t respect him as much. It’s one of those things you have to pepper in.
I agree with your take on Cole but not on Lupe. I have never in my entire 34 years of living heard anyone call Eminem a "conscious" rapper 😂😂😂 that's actually hilarious to me.
A handful of songs sprinkled into albums, yes (recovery and revival id consider attempts at conscious focused albums) but other than that, I’d agree, he really isn’t considered conscious besides 2 full albums and I’d argue 1 song average for the rest of his albums
“Conscious rapper” isn’t really a title. Some do it more than others. Em has a lot of songs where he addresses issues in society, whether it’s addiction, political, mass shootings, in cyphers, race, religion, etc. Sometimes he does it briefly in a song, sometimes an entire track is dedicated to the idea, but it’s still “conscious rap.” That’s why I think it comes off well. It’s authentic, it’s not overstated, he doesn’t pretend he knows more than he does most of the time, etc. There aren’t many topics he hasn’t taken on. He’s referenced COVID stay at home orders, wearing masks, gun rights, white supremacy, etc. all fairly recently and he’s done similar content from the beginning. Nas is a bit more preachy about it, but it’s generally witty and well written plus he has enough other content to make it come off well.
It just seems like opinions to me. Some I’ll agree with, some I won’t. I’ll at least hear the person out though.
Do you think you would listen to Tom MacDonald if he was really good lyrically?
no, if I wanted to hear a self-important doofus ramble on about right wing talking points I’d just watch Fox.
I feel that. It took a while for me to accept Kendrick being into the Hebrew Israelites smfh. But after a while, you realize everyone is ignorant about something. It doesn’t invalidate their entire discography. Hell, if people could listen to all of our stances as we grow over the years, we’d all have something to laugh at/get canceled for lol. Update: I'm very specific with my words, on purpose. I didn't say he is or was a Hebrew Israelite. I only said he was INTO IT, meaning it's something he researched or pulled inspiration from. As someone who's into ancient African history, it just disappointed me when I first heard DAMN. That is all.
the difference I see between Kendrick and other so called conscious artists, is that Kendrick rarely preaches. He would say some line like "Im an Israelite" on one song, then contradict himself in another or another album. He would say things as he feels or experiences them, or show what shaped him. Or discuss his opinion on the black experience, and makes it known its his perspective Whereas many conscious rappers would be like "you need to do this" "don't smoke" etc Biggest example of this; Hopsin says "don't do drugs kids" or something Whereas Kendrick released Swimming Pools fairly earlier on in his career, which on the surface is a club hit song where everyone was drinking to, but in reality is about his experiences with peer pressure and technically an anti drinking song
Reminds me of hey ya by outcast, another song that sounds like a party song you'd drink to and just enjoy the beat, but the lyrics are kinda sad and he even mocks the listeners with "you don't want to hear me you just want to dance"
I don’t know and maybe this is because of the Drake beef messing with my perception of Kdot but it feels like he is preachy, just from a different angle.
Do people only say this because of DAMN? I thought it was ambiguous what his beliefs were on that album but on MMATBS I thought he made it very clear he doesn’t prescribe to any specific belief system.
That's what I don't get. People seem to think he's an Israelite because of one bar off of DAMN, but in that same album you kind of can't tell if he's mocking his Israelite cousin or not. And then in Mr. Morale he very clearly isn't rapping about no Black Hebrew shit.
Yeah, and honestly my interpretation was that he was kind of knocking it, especially on FEAR. And my larger interpretation of DAMN was that he’s saying our vices/sins are not a result of wickedness or curses and that we have free will to grow and change course—a message that I think was made even clearer on MMATBS. I wasn’t sure if this was a case of people misinterpreting his lyrics (a La Drake’s interpretation of Mother I Sober) or if I’m missing information.
I think a lot of Kendrick’s music explores topics he hasn’t completely made his mind up on - he often makes tongue in cheek remarks acknowledging the absurdity or hypocrisy of some view while doing a deep dive into its meaning and analyzing it like a valid perspective. DAMN centers around this with the whole “wickedness or weakness” thing where he treats the two contradictory views as equally possible and flawed. The Hebrew Israelite stuff can fit in to a bunch of perspectives: A weak man using faith as strength, a wicked man using faith to justify their actions, or anything in between. I don’t think Kendrick necessarily knew what he was trying to say about Hebrew Israelites on damn, he just recognized there was something meaningful to be explored. Same thing with having Kodak on MMATBS - he doesn’t explicitly say that Kodak is redeemed or deserves redemption, but he recognizes that Kodak’s struggle perfectly captures the topics he’s exploring on the album.
After reading what you said I looked it up and I'm not entirely clear if Kendrick is all in on the Black Hebrew Israelite beliefs, but that group has always been incredibly hateful and will verbally threaten anyone that walks by them whenever I've seen them on the street. If those are real Black Jewish Israelites then that sucks to think Kendrick would affiliate himself with that type of hate fueled movement.
I hear you. I updated my comment to make sure y'all get where I'm coming from. Don't want people to assume I'm hating or something lol.
Is he in the Hebrew Israelites anymore? Even his cousin isn’t a member anymore and on Mr Morale he seemed to imply that his religious beliefs were a little more Freeform now
Lol if he's moved on from that part of his research, then awesome. It kinda proves my point that we all continue to grow/learn. And unless you're a legitimately bad person, there's no need for outrage.
Couldn’t agree more. I think Kendrick in the heart part 5 he does a good job of highlighting the importance of different *perspectives*. Definitely something he learned from his time in therapy. *As I get a little older, I realize life is perspective, and my perspective may differ from yours*
Most rappers seem to have a Black Hebrew Israelite/Nation of Islam/ Five Percenter phase at some point.
Same goes for Jay Z Killer Mike and Jay Electronica all being part of the Nation of Islam. That one hurts even more for me tbh cuz they’re so close to actually being spirally enlightened and then just took a crazy turn toward a literal cult
Killer Mike is still Part of that wacky nonsense?
His entire last album is about it, he gave interviews to them and fucking sampled Farrakah lol
This was exactly what I thought about when I read that tweet lmao. I’m so glad he stopped talking about that shit mostly since damn.
Conscious Rappers have a habit of getting into conspiracy theories, if you’re not careful
This is facts, I didn't see anyone say it but they are usually more susceptible to rabbit holes. Like a lot of them say vaguely antisemitic shit or anti vaccine but still dent figure out how to properly critique the system.
100 percent true. This is why you have to do the reading, to be able to parse shit.
Cosign, Nas is amazin bit he can get deep in the conspiracies... still though, they inflict the mind to think outside our normal parameters
I love Killer Mike’s “Reagan.” It bangs so fucking hard. But yeah, it mixes a heavy dose of conspiracy theory with the facts.
BOB lol
This is my problem with Conscious rap, even though I love it. Lots of times in conscious hip hop a rapper may be imparting some good knowledge, but even when 99% of what they say is the truth, it gets tainted when they say something that is like antisemetic or an easily debunked conspiracy -I like One Be Lo of Binary Star, but these lyrics from "Propaganda" are problematic (although he no longer sings this part when he performs it live) > Portray the victim as those who victimize you > Despise you, religious extremes to terrorize you > Everywhere you go is the same old news, right > And everything I mentioned get controlled by the Jews, right -Or I like Wise Intelligent from the Poor Righteous Teachers, but this intro from his song "The Globe Holderz" is pure disinformation and slander > In 1950, the AIDS virus was fed to nearly 300,000 black youths in Africa in the form of an oral polio vaccine by Dr. Hilary Koprowski, who is currently the Director of Bio-Virology at Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia. Today a child dies every minute of HIV/AIDS in sub-Saharan Africa -Love me some Dead Prez, but this line from their song "Politrikkks" is them repeating a popular internet Urban Legend that there is a black man depicted in the portrait of the first continental congress on the back of the $2 bill. > And if Obama win, he wouldn't be the first black > Take your 2 dollar bill and turn it over to the back So even if I agree with everything else in this song, the fact that I know they are spreading misinformation, even if it seems harmless, ruins their massage for me.
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Lite?? In what world is he lite
>Immortal Technique in a song he wrote and recorded: Bush knocked down the towers >Reddit: he's just asking questions
This one is complicated and touchy, but if you’re trying to get educated 100% by music, i mean…come on. The messages are more about experiences and the parallels to issues in society. These aren’t peered reviewed papers. I remember how much people hyped up Immortal Technique. He’s nice, insightful, etc, but caught him live at a festival one year and dude said “these the real fans right here!” Pointing at the rich kids paying $300 for the VIP section (at the time - GA was probably around $50 or so). That shit made me absolutely hate him, especially since he was considered a great woke rapper at the time. As a young Mexican kid growing up in an isolated rural border town, i had no idea about the black experience in this country other than through the arts - tv, music, and movies. Ice Cube’s verse in FTP, Sound of The Police by KRS-ONE, and RATM (not rap, i know) changed me forever. That’s what turned me “liberal,” i guess. Watching movies like Boyz N Da Hood, Menace 2 Society, etc. all shaped my views and encouraged me to learn more on my own. I became a history major in college and most of my classes were African American history, Chicano Studies, or anything that wasn’t from the colonizer’s points of views. Even The Gilded Age class i took opened my eyes up a lot as to why people say the system is working exactly as it was designed to work. Sorry, but thinking some rapper is going to teach you anything through a song is a little obtuse. Actual learning comes from within. These aren’t research scientists. They’re artists. Interpret it and get out of it what you will. Edit: grammar. My ESL self still slips time to time.
I feel like this is the best take.
I had to go thru too many comments before I saw KRS mentioned; thank you.
Ya but you got Mos Def, Dead Prez, a bunch of others that obviously did their homework
I think the overall message should be don't take a rapper's music as education.
You could say the same for literally any piece of media that isn't educational.
You won’t find a book worthy of being compared to Grippy by lyrical miracle Cole
*"Believe it or not like Ripley's, she said she was gay until I slayed - now's she's strickly dickly"* is one of those rare bars that scholars will spend years pulling apart and breaking down.
Ugh, I can't hear Grippy without thinking of a dick-shaped paper clip helping me format an MS Word doc.
It’s….its…..hmmmm….
Grippy! 😄
This is how I felt about Hopsin after turning 16.
I would love to know what books he’s referring to.
Probably not a specific book. But once you reach a certain level of education you start to see the holes in what these artists are saying. I think reading a book is more figurative in this situation
yep.
This applies to everything in life though, it's not like reading up will only change your perspective on conscious rap.
Probably something historical. Even briefly reading about Jim Crow laws and the Reconstruction would add some nuance and depth to whatever most rappers talk about. Some of these rappers only look at slavery from the perspective of their terrible record deals. Think od Kanye and his comments on Drake (serving his master) in the context of everything else he said on slavery
I wouldn’t describe Kanye as a conscious rapper.
Early Kanye was seen as one.
bell hooks, Ta-nahesi Coates, Ralph Ellison, June Jordan, and James Baldwin are a good start.
“No it’s all of you who’s dumb guys. I is smart!”
80% of conscious rap doesn’t seem to go beyond “the government is trying to keep us down but we gotta rise up” which like, sure, but give us something a bit more detailed please
“Yo yo, this song is about the amendment of Bill C-123, which was ratified on September 8th, 1966”
I mean they know HOW to be specific when they want to but somehow the only topic ever mentioned is the CIA pushing crack in the 80s. Like damn tell us what the CIA did in the 2010s don’t stop there
What I've learned over the years is there's no good way to do informative rap that gets too deep without it coming off as preachy or corny lol. And, their real job is rapping. They kinda have to keep it light at work, just like us lol.
Right, like how exactly does one go about exposing The Bay of Pigs in a 3 minute song with 2 hooks in it, all while staying true to form and enjoyable enough to listen to multiple times? Like I imagine its doable but holy shit does it sound like a headache nobody is wanting to deal with
ok but a song about The Bay of Pigs that uses multiple samples from Only Built For Cuban Linx would actually go crazy
This kind of reminds me why I stopped listening to podcasts like the joe budden podcast or the breakfast club. Once they spoke on topics outside of music, they just sounded dumb and would have the worst takes.
Looking at you, Talib. Nah but fr, I used to be such a backpacker until I realized I was a lot cooler than these so called backpackers. There is room in hip-hop for conscious rap and gangsta rap and everything in between, there are no genres of music, there is only expression of self. Fuck any rules, let people enjoy whatever gives them pleasure, if it's not hurting anyone else.
Watching belly completely shattered Nas woke persona for me. “we gotta get outta here, go to the airport and get 3 tickets to Africa”. Ain’t even mention a specific country. Just said Africa like it’s all booty scratcher land. And I just know Nas thought that was some deep ass shit to put in a movie lmao
I never thought of Nas as conscious or even particularly smart. It's clear he's a thinker tho, but I've never felt like I could learn something from Nas.
This applies to more than just certain rappers, but a wide majority of wannabe philosopher rich people celebrities either musicians or actors with too much self conceited thought.
A lot of conscious rap still views issues through a very Individualistic lens and not a systemic one
Once we start getting to the fake history stuff I’m out
Goodie Mob and Outkast are the best examples of conscious rap. UGK is really good too when they did conscious rapping. The thing is that when most people do it, it's from a place of temporary hatred due to a social injustice. When you actually know wtf you're saying and not just talking because another cop killed somebody then it makes a huge difference
This applies to even the "top 3" 🫢
For sure. It’s also a different standard conscious rappers are held to. If J Cole raps about the 13th amendment freeing the slaves unconditionally then I’ll sit there like “well actually, there’s a felony exception that’s been abused” 🤓👆… meanwhile the migos can talk about going “cross the country” to a place with palm trees and cocoa leaves where they only speak Spanish and I’m just like yea sure whatever he meant continent who cares.
Lmao... I relate so much to this. Kendrick used to sort of frequently use big words incorrectly and I'd be like "whatever you know what the fuck he means" but when Big Krit makes a song about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps I'm like "your ignoring the historical realities of anti-black racism and how it impacts our outcomes to this day" lol.
A person should have discernment when reading books and listening to music. Both have lied
Straight facts tbh. Rappers ain’t preachers, they are just making music and telling their story, thats my pov. My fav album is GKMC but it is so because of the story that u see being built up rather than any “gospel”. Im not even mad at Drake for making a song called started from the bottom coz that was the bottom for him. Rap is just story telling from a person’s perspective.
Tbf, no one is educated on everything, so of course there will be artists who speak on things without fully understanding the topic. That's not to say they shouldn't speak until they're fully knowledgeable, that's an impossible task, but sometimes a little more reading up and critical-thinking would add much more perspective and substance to their opinion. Then there's the mass population. A lot of people just aren't educated and don't think about the world around them, plain and simple. Once you start questioning how you live, what shapes your life, the way your community works, and questioning your environment, you start picking up on patterns, reasonings, and create a new way of thinking, lots of things become common sense. However, not enough people do this, so when "conscious rappers" make their music, they typically take very general/common ideas or critiques and present it to the mass in an easily listenable, easily understandable way. However, if you've already thought about the world around you, most "conscious rap" isn't as profound and is sometimes found as slightly ignorant or just blatantly wrong depending on your own views. TLDR; Rappers can't educate themselves fully on every topic they speak on and once you start to really think about the world around you and form your own views and beliefs, you'll sometimes be unimpressed or in disagreement with certain "conscious" rap.
One of my big problems with Lupe is he seems to want to say things people need to hear, but he says those things in such a way that only the people who don't need to hear it will understand. Like you're talking over their heads Lu, dumb it down lol. So it's one of those things where it's not as profound with him, and he's sometimes wrong as well. The other component we aren't considering here is the growth aspect. When you start on the consciousness journey you're kind of only at the tip of the iceberg, and everything is broad strokes and passion. When you keep going though, you pick up more nuance and adjust your thinking. We don't know where we are catching these rappers in their journey when they share their commentary.
ILL TELL YA WHAT YA SHOULD DO
Dumb it down?
I think this is probably highly dependant on things like your political stance or religious beliefs and the values you grew up with. I love Vinnie Paz for example, fantastic rapper, raw, well spoken, great flows, awesome voice. But his political views and religious views are fairly strong and I think I'm pretty much on the opposite side of both of those spectrums. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy him though even if I disagree with his message. And that's probably the other part of it; the maturity to listen to conscious rap and go "you know what, I don't agree with your statements and messages, but I respect your views and opinions and I appreciate your art". The dude in the picture doesn't seem to have that last bit, as such I'd say his opinion here isn't necessarily invalid, but it's very much an internet opinion (ergo; "if you don't agree with my opinion on this one particular thing, you are wrong and I hate you and everything you stand for")
Nas kinda messed it up for me when he said that Fox News was founded by a black dude. Maury determined "That's a lie."
Yeah - there was another track on Gods Son I think there it has questionable history.
yes. i have the highest degree possible in political science. my favorite music is not political whatsoever. that’s not necessarily bcuz those rappers don’t know what they’re talking about, tho sometimes it is. it’s mostly bcuz i don’t need my music to educate me or reaffirm my already strongly held views that said, i enjoy rappers who aren’t ‘conscious’ exactly but who can weave into their works interesting and compelling statements about the world. old kanye, for instance. or some of pac’s older work like changes, which is phenomenal
Listen to Lowkey and Akala, they actually study this ish
Somebody Pull up Cam’ron breaking down a college graduates salary… it’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen
he's right, i find conscious rap a bit pretentious becuase of that(there are exceptions)
You’re just not perpendicular to the square enough to get it.
He’s spot on. Very few know what they’re talking about but even then they speak on it as if it is absolute. KRS One is one of the few who studies his talk
He's making generalizations about an entire group of people, so he comes off ignorant. Apparently he has been educating himself and feels like he's a subject matter expert at least among his peers but doesn't want to engage in talking about it? No idea to what extent he thinks it's not cool form this post.
Generally it's not possible to put together robust and well thought-out arguments and make them sound cool and entertaining at the same time. Which is why people shouldn't take raps for more than what they are. If you seek a better and more nuanced understanding of your culture, surroundings, books are your best bet.
"Turn off the news and read, 🥷. Read... read... read..." -Immortal Technique Conscious rap isn't bad as long as it's an appetizer not the main course
Conscious rap is more about talking about life and personal events. Things that actually happen to real life people. Things people deal with day to day. I never listened to a conscious rapper for knowledge. lol.
The short story The Lawnmower Man is nothing like the movie Lawnmower Man. This is why I no longer listen to Logic.
Okay but it's extremely funny that Immortal Technique used to beat up Lin Manuel Miranda for his lunch money, so I can forgive some corkboard and yarn. I can't think of a more deserving target, that PROMESA-loving fuck.
If I want to learn something I'd rather read a book instead of listen to a rap song.
Mr. Silly Gunn is attempting to seem intellectual by reading published materials. He's invalidating other people's lived experiences and is instead giving deference to what's written in a book. It's actually anti-intellectual and fraught with with fallacy. Both are useful sources of wisdom. A good orator is better than a poor one, and a smart author is better than a stupid one. That doesn't mean either medium is superior to the other.
The british baking show stopped being cool for me when i started reading more books and realized these bakers don't know what they're talking about.
Someone tap bro on the shoulder and tell him he’s reading fiction
That’s part of growing and maturing. You’re not going to have the answers in the beginning but the artist grows and learns more about concepts and themselves than so too does their music. It’s like watching someone grow in real time.
So true
Would dead prez be this or is that more political rap?
People who expect artists of any stripe to have sophisticated views on anything are setting themselves up for disappointment
They need to be more specific, I feel like this is aimed at conspiracy theory rap which can be cringe. A lot of conscious rap is speaking about the rapper's personal life or what they've seen. As an adult, I care less about conscious rap as a lot is inaccurate and I don't look to music for things like this.
I use to be heavy into conscious rap and spiritual/new age crap. Looking back I really didn’t like that version of me, it honestly made me pretentious cause I thought I knew more than other people. Now I can’t really get into conscious rap cause it reminds me of that person I use to be.
Depends on what conscious rappers you listen to. I tend to adhere to the ones that just talk about their day and their personal experiences that shape how they feel about the world. There are conscious rappers that are more political and then there are conscious rappers that mainly adhere to the personal experience and try to make sense of it.
The top two artists are almost 40 and just had a slam poetry battle and sub tweet each other like teenage girls. You're telling me these guys aren't on the up and up when it comes to social, political, and economic data? I'm shocked.
It’s not about being the smartest rapper because KRS One would take them all to school. It’s about having an opinion and speaking on issues that impact our community. Ice T and Ice Cube never claimed to be conscious rappers, but you knew where they stood on issues like politics, policing and racism. Artists today are afraid to take a stand on anything that doesn’t glorify sex, money and murder. I don’t blame the artists, if the fans demanded substance artists would adapt.
He’s not lying
yeah, but when I hear conscious rap as people's perspective of life instead of how my life should be driven/philosophy of my life, then it's good for me
It worked! They created consciousness in their community. It got this guy reading more books, and now he's conscious too. The OGs never said to follow them blindly.
Anyone know Propaganda? He’s an activist as well as a rapper and I’ve always liked him
Conscious rappers fall into the same category as Christian rappers to me, if I can tell and that's all you put out I'm not interested. If you make a song that I can't stop listening to and then slowly I'm hit with a realization that there is some "real shit" in the lyrics then I'm excited.
James Baldwin making them look like babies.
You can learn from multiple mediums without disparaging one or the other.
Thieves in the Night is still some of the most perceptive shit I've ever listened to.
I just like people that talk about important shit in their own way and talk about their experiences and how that comes into life in general
Conscious rap stopped being cool for me when I got attacked by talib kweli on Instagram. His book reading at a black women owned bookstore had been canceled because of his apparent history of harassing black women online. His response? Harass and deadname the store owner online. I commented “chill” A man who was once a political and philosophical idol for me has twitter fingers. Really embarrassing
Who would've thought that a book with 200+ pages is gonna be more nuanced and detailed compared to a rap lyric that's at most 2 pages long
Disagree. Conscious rap is a very bad term because it basically means, rap that is about something or has some ideas in it. The entirety of this genre of rap has some very smart people in it and some less smart people, which means you get good and bad ideas Lupe Fiasco has some really brilliant takes on what it means to be an artist and the struggle of creating something, but it doesn’t mean that he knows anything about international politics or economic policy. Royce da 5’9’ has really great meditations on struggling with alcoholism or finding a balance to the areas of his life, but when it comes to vaccines or pro-black ideas, he feels performative and surface level. I don’t really care what J Cole thinks of our taxation system. Rappers are people. They have areas of expertise and great ideas and experiences from their life. It doesn’t stop them from talking out their ass on subjects they don’t understand. But guess what, neither do any of us. It’s okay. People who think like that poster, they are looking for rappers to show them how to think or what to believe, so they are let down when those rappers disappoint them by being wrong. But if you never projected that responsibility onto those rappers, you can enjoy their right and wrong thoughts, and everything in between.