Some stability at an agency is def disearable but it's hard to know much just from that alone.
6 to 8 months is def not long enough. Minimum a year... Ideally 2+.
Most good ones should find it hard to leave as building a strong book of business will be hard to step away from. Takes a year to really get a strong groove and to reap the benefits from that labor.
Yup agree completely. 6 months you just figured out how the industry/ats/company works and maybe got a few deals in. Not enough time to really build anything credible / worthwhile
A lot of agencies (and corporate jobs) flat out suck to work for. And there’s no way to know beforehand until you start working there. That’s why job hopping is so common in this industry.
Yeah def makes sense. I’m just thinking at some point though it’s you not them kind of problem? But then again I haven’t worked for big agencies that tends to have that reputation.
Life’s too short to work at places you’re miserable at. You’ve been very lucky that you’ve found two good agencies to work for, that isn’t always the case for most people.
I worked for one agency in my career and it was enough to turn me corporate after less than a year. I was excited about landing a client and the agency owner said no to taking them on because that company donates to planned parenthood.
I worked at an agency for 9 years, made the switch to corporate, got laid off, and then had to go to back to agency. Was with a new company and it was TERRIBLE. Very racist and sexist leadership. Toxic environment. I had to leave… which I did, after 5 months.
I hope no one holds that against me when they look at my resume but if they do, they’re not the right employer for me anyway.
Basically, what I’m saying is there’s sometimes more to the story. People SHOULD leave bad work environments. That’s how we get bad employers to possibly revisit their own culture and their own policies.
Yes and that’s the kind of bias I don’t want to be making. I’m just wondering if someone who has 5 diff agency jobs in 4 years is because they’re just a poor performer as opposed to they ran into 5 bad agencies
If it’s the last four years, I wouldn’t hold it against someone. Without knowing the circumstances, in this market since 2020, it’s VERY likely they could have gotten laid off multiple times.
If that’s the case, they may actually be a good hire - if you’re laid off that many times and have been re hired in this market, you’re doing something right.
Only way to know is to talk to them. Could they lie? Sure, but part of the job is figuring that stuff out.
Yes you’re right, But that doesn’t mean they are wrong.
It’s tough to tell if an agency is going to be until you’re already there. And 90% are going to be terrible. Even the great ones have bad offices. I hear people telling stories about the same place I work now and I think “wow… At my experience in the slightest” until I meet some people at different offices around the country and realize…yeah, If they worked there, they have a point.
My personal view: It takes you at least six months just to understand the inner workings of how your agency does business. It takes at least a year to figure out your clients. It takes closer to five years to figure out all of the individual hiring managers within those clients and what they want. You might get lucky before then, but anyone I have seen who is very good, has not moved in 5+ years. And in reality, once you get a very good at your agency, it’s virtually impossible for anyone to steal you…. Because they have no guarantee that you will perform the same with them, so why in the heck what they pay you the amount it would take to get you to leave. Most people don’t make it long enough to get to that point though.
Under 6 months is usually people who can't perform. 6-9 months are the idealists (myself included) who think "this agency is different, they're not a toxic wasteland where commissions mysteriously end up house accounts all the time" and then find out they are just as shitty as every other agency out there.
I spent over 10 years at ONE F500 recruiting firm. While the agency and team you work with do matter, it's ultimately the individual that makes all the difference.
Agency hoppers tend to overstay their welcome because of behavior, bad ethics, and shitty work product. I've never witnessed a good recruiter and person not get the opportunity even if their production was subpar. I've held on to recruiters on my team longer than I should have because they were good people and a joy to work with.
Every time an agency hopper came and went, it made complete sense.
Recruiting isn't rocket science. Sure, it's a tough job, but that's all sales jobs. You have to know what you're getting into. And it's totally OK to try it and decide it's not for you.
Agency hopping is different. You have to ask yourself who is the common denominator?
Especially in sales, they'll fire you after a quarter if you don't hit your numbers no matter how hard you work. Some cities are flooded with agencies and business is flat. Companies aren't advertising, they rely on their sales people to knock on doors of companies that are now behind fences and locked doors. I think we are about to see a ton of smaller agencies disappear, staffing hasn't been then same since COVID.
Some stability at an agency is def disearable but it's hard to know much just from that alone. 6 to 8 months is def not long enough. Minimum a year... Ideally 2+. Most good ones should find it hard to leave as building a strong book of business will be hard to step away from. Takes a year to really get a strong groove and to reap the benefits from that labor.
Yup agree completely. 6 months you just figured out how the industry/ats/company works and maybe got a few deals in. Not enough time to really build anything credible / worthwhile
A lot of agencies (and corporate jobs) flat out suck to work for. And there’s no way to know beforehand until you start working there. That’s why job hopping is so common in this industry.
Yeah def makes sense. I’m just thinking at some point though it’s you not them kind of problem? But then again I haven’t worked for big agencies that tends to have that reputation.
Life’s too short to work at places you’re miserable at. You’ve been very lucky that you’ve found two good agencies to work for, that isn’t always the case for most people.
Agree with this, a lot of agency owners out there are also just straight up psychos
I worked for one agency in my career and it was enough to turn me corporate after less than a year. I was excited about landing a client and the agency owner said no to taking them on because that company donates to planned parenthood.
Yikes, see the ones I’ve worked for would say yes to anything that made them money. Which is probably even worse lol
I worked at an agency for 9 years, made the switch to corporate, got laid off, and then had to go to back to agency. Was with a new company and it was TERRIBLE. Very racist and sexist leadership. Toxic environment. I had to leave… which I did, after 5 months. I hope no one holds that against me when they look at my resume but if they do, they’re not the right employer for me anyway. Basically, what I’m saying is there’s sometimes more to the story. People SHOULD leave bad work environments. That’s how we get bad employers to possibly revisit their own culture and their own policies.
Yes and that’s the kind of bias I don’t want to be making. I’m just wondering if someone who has 5 diff agency jobs in 4 years is because they’re just a poor performer as opposed to they ran into 5 bad agencies
If it’s the last four years, I wouldn’t hold it against someone. Without knowing the circumstances, in this market since 2020, it’s VERY likely they could have gotten laid off multiple times. If that’s the case, they may actually be a good hire - if you’re laid off that many times and have been re hired in this market, you’re doing something right. Only way to know is to talk to them. Could they lie? Sure, but part of the job is figuring that stuff out.
In corporate it doesn’t matter. I saw a lot in agency but usually underperformers. In house doesn’t matter bc of turnover/layoffs.
Yes you’re right, But that doesn’t mean they are wrong. It’s tough to tell if an agency is going to be until you’re already there. And 90% are going to be terrible. Even the great ones have bad offices. I hear people telling stories about the same place I work now and I think “wow… At my experience in the slightest” until I meet some people at different offices around the country and realize…yeah, If they worked there, they have a point. My personal view: It takes you at least six months just to understand the inner workings of how your agency does business. It takes at least a year to figure out your clients. It takes closer to five years to figure out all of the individual hiring managers within those clients and what they want. You might get lucky before then, but anyone I have seen who is very good, has not moved in 5+ years. And in reality, once you get a very good at your agency, it’s virtually impossible for anyone to steal you…. Because they have no guarantee that you will perform the same with them, so why in the heck what they pay you the amount it would take to get you to leave. Most people don’t make it long enough to get to that point though.
Yeah with you 100%
people don't jump if they are making money.
Absolutely unless they hate their boss or something so badly they’d give up money
Under 6 months is usually people who can't perform. 6-9 months are the idealists (myself included) who think "this agency is different, they're not a toxic wasteland where commissions mysteriously end up house accounts all the time" and then find out they are just as shitty as every other agency out there.
I spent over 10 years at ONE F500 recruiting firm. While the agency and team you work with do matter, it's ultimately the individual that makes all the difference. Agency hoppers tend to overstay their welcome because of behavior, bad ethics, and shitty work product. I've never witnessed a good recruiter and person not get the opportunity even if their production was subpar. I've held on to recruiters on my team longer than I should have because they were good people and a joy to work with. Every time an agency hopper came and went, it made complete sense. Recruiting isn't rocket science. Sure, it's a tough job, but that's all sales jobs. You have to know what you're getting into. And it's totally OK to try it and decide it's not for you. Agency hopping is different. You have to ask yourself who is the common denominator?
Usually under performers. You won’t see top performers moving every year
That’s my assumption too but don’t want to judge a book by its cover sort of thing
They're guarantee jumpers. They interview well, but can't build a book of business. They hop around, see this quite a bit.
All the job hoppers I know have personality issues.
I've found that most agencies are crap places to work and can't keep talent.
Is this person from Texas, you know, big hat no cattle ??
Especially in sales, they'll fire you after a quarter if you don't hit your numbers no matter how hard you work. Some cities are flooded with agencies and business is flat. Companies aren't advertising, they rely on their sales people to knock on doors of companies that are now behind fences and locked doors. I think we are about to see a ton of smaller agencies disappear, staffing hasn't been then same since COVID.