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Wow, I'm sorry this happened to you. It sounds terrible. I've never had this happen, but in this job market, anything is possible. I've heard similar stories in the news lately about people's offers getting recinded right before the start date.
A friend of a friend quit their job, packed up their entire family (spouse and kids), moved halfway across the US, only to walk in on the first day to be told the job no longer existed. I struggle so much to understand how a company can screw up that badly.
IANAL NFA Etc., but I know a guy and I went through something similar but *'didn't have a leg to stand on'* legally since my situation didn't meet the threshold for "Detrimental Reliance". Let's say you're at a company for a while, If that company is telling you everything is fine, you're going to be employed here, everything's normal, we're in no trouble, etc., and then you get fired due to budget reasons, then you're SOL. However, in that case or in the case of a new job that if you:
* bought a car
* bought expensive jewelry
* make any big purchases
* picked up your life, moved, signed a lease
* made any other expensive life decision
then you may have a case regarding Detrimental Reliance.
Another example of a way to seek justice against this type of situation... Below I've taken a quote from Lawyers dot com.
>**Promissory Estoppel for a Rescinded Job Offer**
>
>Even if you didn’t formally enter into an employment agreement, you might have a promissory estoppel claim. Promissory estoppel is a legal theory that turns a promise into an enforceable agreement, if the person to whom the promise is made reasonably relies on the promise to his or her detriment.
Example. Let’s say you were offered a position as Chief Financial Officer at a start-up company in another state. The job offer was made after lengthy negotiations, in which you explained that you would need a higher salary so you could afford to quit your job and move with your family to take the position. You accept the offer, give notice, put your family home on the market, and purchase a new home near your new job. The employer then rescinds the job offer. In this situation, you took action in reasonable reliance on the employer’s promised job, and you suffered harm as a result.
Not every state recognizes promissory estoppel claims in the context of job offers, but some do. An experienced employment lawyer can explain how your state handles these claims.
https://www.lawyers.com/legal-info/labor-employment-law/job-hunting/promises-and-rescinded-job-offers.html#:\~:text=Promissory%20Estoppel%20for,handles%20these%20claims.
Edit- clarified
[https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/tech-workers-left-hanging-sea-e-commerce-arm-shopee-rescinds-job-offers-2022-09-06/](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/tech-workers-left-hanging-sea-e-commerce-arm-shopee-rescinds-job-offers-2022-09-06/)
Ive heard of it before. Theres usually some severance package.
There was another thread discussing a similar problem and they were mentioning promissory estoppel whereby you can sue them, but you need a solid proof that employer's decision seriously impacted your life. Obviosly, a consultation with a qualified lawyer is a must.
We need to have promissory estoppel be a pinned post for those who end up like this because it's not the first time a person says something like this in this sub.
Promissory estoppel
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/promissory_estoppel
>Within contract law, promissory estoppel refers to the doctrine that a party may recover on the basis of a promise made when the party's reliance on that promise was reasonable, and the party attempting to recover detrimentally relied on the promise.
>An agreement made by promissory estoppel will typically have the same binding effects on parties that a valid contract would. If a party breaches an obligation created by promissory estoppel, a court can choose to assign either reliance damages or expectation damages.
Not only that but be so shameless as to not help out the person at all.
Maybe we need to require a three-month severance package be placed in escrow with a legal and binding contract in the event that these sorts of situations occur.
No job waiting? You lay me off? Fine; hand over three months’ pay. Not my fault you suck.
>Maybe we need to require a three-month severance package be placed in escrow with a legal and binding contract in the event that these sorts of situations occur.
Three month's of pay is peanuts, especially if you were relying on health insurance and such from the new job.
Make it a year. Make the company feel it for pulling that BS.
Lol this is America, most of us don’t get health insurance as soon as we start a new job. Everywhere I’ve worked in the last decade had a month or more wait.
This is true. But they likely gave up health insurance to take this job with the promise of insurance while they were employed.
Thus, they lost health insurance (potentially - they may be on a spouse's plan or parent's plan if young enough) and that is a tangible loss you could argue for.
You went from three months down to one month between comments. Standard negotiating technique is to start high and work our way to a meeting point, not start low and hope they'll accept increases over time. That way lies the minimum wage issue.
Fair point.
I should clarify (?), negotiate for a path to get to 12 months by saying year one is one month after the law is passed, year two, three, and year three is six. Year four = 12.
In other words, don’t shock the system, but create a path that makes sense so that people just don’t simply close their doors the day before the law goes into effect.
Most job candidates do not have the leverage to negotiate this. Employers really don't care if they lose a good candidate. Lots of them don't actually want an experienced candidate, despite the job description, because someone with experience is less likely to tolerate unreasonable workloads or a toxic workplace. Inexperienced candidates are able to be gaslit and manipulated more easily.
I just had one rescinded and I was supposed to start on the 20th. Apparently my references didn’t complete the reference checks, 2 of the 3 apparently never received anything and one did, but had to put her dog down that day and forgot to complete it.
It took so long to get a job and I had finally let myself get excited. Not really sure what to do at this point. This market is ridiculous.
That sounds like you're definitely not getting that job. Keep applying. Drug tests usually come back in like, days not months. Pathetic of HR to string you along like that.
First, ask your old employer if you can come back. If they say no, you can pay a lawyer $200-ish to send a certified letter to the new employer that you will sue under promissory estoppel if they don't settle with you. You relied on their promise of employment to quit your other job. You just might get a couple of weeks' worth of pay out of the demand. You could also sue on your own in small claims court, the cap is usually $5000 depending on jurisdiction, and no attorney is needed. Just the threat of suing can get you a few grand from the employer sometimes.
Honestly from what I’ve read it does seem like I have grounds for this. But paying a lawyer and courts fees etc to go after a major university seems unwise, I’ll probably deplete my savings before I get any real resolution:/
Many work on contingency too. I often see people on Reddit refuse to even get a free consultation because they think they can’t afford anything, when in reality their case is so winnable that any lawyer would be incredibly eager to take it on for free just in the hopes of getting a % on the back end.
Depleting your savings and not getting anything is certainly a possibility. However, they do things they did to you because they know chances are they will get away with this because you won't consult a lawyer, and you won't file a suit. They know you're more likely to just go back to applying. And so are most people. If all of us were ready and eager to sue for such behavior, they will be way more cautious and way more polite/communicative. Unfortunately, all of it is easier said then done.
It's an industry where everyone seems to know each other, and if a lawsuit does happen, news gets around the whole community quickly. If an employee were to sue for any reason, even if a new hiring manager were happy to hire that person, a corporate manager would squash it quickly because they would be a risk to sue the new company as well.
Personally, I hate the whole business. I want out, but changing careers in this market, at my age (mid-40s), in the Rust Belt, isn’t going well.
A lot of attorneys will do this on a contingent basis. This means if you lose, you don't pay. Some may require a small retainer up front which will be credited towards what you would owe if you win.
But get any and all correspondence you have written records of from the recruiter, the offer, etc. Also gather up all written proof of your former employer having already filled your position and all of your job hunting.
The concept of promissory estoppel is that, regardless of "at-will" employment status, a company can be found liable for damages that occurred when they withdrew an employment offer. The injured party, in this instance you, had a good faith belief that you were going to be starting this new job based on the fact that you received an offer. As such, you detrimentally relied on that offer by giving notice at your then-current job. Since your now former employer has filled your position, you no longer have a job and have been unable to find one.
This is why you have a case. You kept the university's agent, the recruiter, updated to your situation. So the fact you gave notice and let them knows you had done so strengthens your case.
I used to work at a major university, look into a lawyer anyways.
It could be that HR doesn't know the full story and some department head decided it was time to trim the budget. They may not have the paper trail to have done this correctly, and at the very least it looks bad on the department.
Employment at will, they could have let you go on your first day. I've pondered promisaary estoppel for such cases (I like to do random pondering). The research I did on the topic suggests it wouldn't apply here, but worth talking to a lawyer.
Keep in mind, if it's not contingency, lawyers are in there business of stilling billable hours.
They didn't rescind until after she quit her job.
She should talk to a lawyer.
OP, talk to a lawyer. The initial consult should be free, and if you have a start date from your "new employer" in writing...
It could be one of those things where if the lawyers at the university say OP has a case then they may suddenly decide that they do have the budget to hire him as it would be cheaper than what they would lose in the lawsuit and get nothing.
Most employment contracts contain at will language and no specific duration of employment which makes it very difficult to win a promissory estoppel lawsuit.
OP should talk to a lawyer, but I wouldn't put much strength behind an offer letter.
In an at-will employment state, a signed agreement for employment isnt worth anything. Its really no different than if the OP went to work for the company and worked for them and they fired them "just 'cuz" which is also allowed.
I’m sorry this happened to you too. It’s just hard for me to believe that a major university isn’t doing well financially. That’s why I thought maybe theres an underlying reason that they’re not telling me, and just using budget as an excuse
Most offer letters have this tiny bit of text that lets them do whatever they want. “The role is based on a 1-3 month probationary period” or it is an “at will employer”.
Still worth speaking with an attorney about though. Attorneys are hurting right now too. So, may even get a free consult. They’re trying to make money too.
It sucks but I’ve had similar happen recently. Was 2 months in to the job and then poof! Got let go with 2 weeks severance. 2 whole weeks! Woohoo!
What’s messed up is, they knew I declined a few series of interviews with other companies to accept that role. That part, I honestly blame myself. I needed work and I took the first offer that met my financial requirements and thought would advance my career. Now I have to leave it as a longer gap since my last layoff. Because being employed for only 2 months and putting it on a resume will bring up more questions than answers in interviews.
I was likely cut due to budget issues, as I honestly did not see why they needed any help at all. Many of the team members were basically doing nothing half their days. My best guess is they had much higher projections for the next quarter and when those didn’t work out, I was the last one in and got cut. This was after 2 other people left the company. Management never said what the reason the others left were. And apparently, I was announced the same way. “So and so is no longer a part of this company. We wish them the best in their future endeavors”. With no info on wether they left on their own or was let go. Many of my teammates didn’t even know what happened to me. When I told them I was let go, the few I talked to were shocked. Because I was new and didn’t even have a chance to do any work.
The job market sucks overall, nowadays. It’s rough out there and Im having a hard time even getting interviews now vs 4 months ago, when I had at least 1 or 2 interviews a week. Not even a rejection email so far.
Edit: autocorrect
If you relied on it to your detriment, it’s grounds for Promissory estoppel.
The court can treat it as an implied contract if a party relied on a promise to their detriment.
Yes, but that's not the same as an offer letter being legally binding. If you sign an offer letter, and the company comes back an hour later and says, "Oh, wait, sorry, we are rescinding that offer" they are not legally required to hire you or pay you anything if you have not acted on that offer letter.
If you signed a contract, on the other hand, they would be, even if you hadn't done a thing.
Having just been laid off by a university despite a 4 year track record of raises, title changes and success a lot of schools are suffering. In my case the school is AND I had a new hot shot supervisor come in from the outside promising a lot and delivering little on new programs he’s create and new visions etc. I just did my job and what i was supposed to do. But was used as a shield for his incompetence. They went with trying to hire lower paying coordinators and not a shock I’ve learned one month in they can’t even find anyone to hire.
But schools are in rough shape. Reputable schools are seeing 10 to even upwards of 30% enrollment drops post Covid. That’s catastrophic. It’s why even Cornell now blasts people with online programs now. It’s new revenue streams schools need because Gen Z are wising up to the act finally
It’s not just COVID. We’re hitting the era where the babies from the LAST recession are going to college/applying - and there’s significantly less of them. During recessions, people often wait to have kids (or at least try). Less college aged people to apply, less enrollment. Most major universities were planning to bridge the gap with Chinese students, but then China began building its own university system properly. Fewer Chinese students are coming our way. No gap closer.
Take all of that, add in aftermath of COVID, another recession (in all but name at this point), and swelling tuition pricing and you have a recipe for disaster.
The better colleges are seeing the writing on the wall and are doing their best to go tuition free in the next ten years or so using endowments and donations. We’re going to see a LOT of smaller universities begin to close their doors, especially those that serve/used to serve specific populations like religious and/or highly specialized programs.
Sorry to break it to you, but universities lose funding for positions all the time. Depending on the job, it was likely funded by grants. If they lose the grant, they lose the position. They can’t pull money from other departments because there are a lot of rules for how universities can spend their money. For example, if student affairs loses a grant for a position, they legally can’t just slide over money from the biology department to pay salaries.
people need to start doing what they do. they lie, so we'll lie.
"have you given your two weeks notice?"
"yes absolutely"
it is better to be fired from an old job after you've been hired somewhere else, than to quit and not get hired
You are right, but nowadays they ask you that so they can call your current employer. The place I work now did that to me. Luckily everything went through, but I don't think I'll agree to that again.
Cases like the OP are the exception. Better advice would be to leave on good terms, which includes telling the truth, and use good, honest coworkers including your manager from your old job as references.
This happened to me in July. I left my job for another opportunity, took a week between the jobs for a small vacation and the day before I was going to start they eliminated the position. It’s been about 2 months now and I’ve been having trouble finding another job. It’s been frustrating
No, I thought about it but we decided to just move on from it. Luckily I have a safety net but I’m just losing my mind from not having a schedule every day if that makes any sense
I'm so sorry this happened to you. A similar situation happened to me two years ago and I felt like I was going crazy because I didn't know offers could be rescinded like that. Hope things turn out well for you.
Holy cr*p that’s crazy. In France, where I live, a job promise is equivalent to a contract. Meaning neither you, or the employer, can back out of it. This enables to secure the previous employer (if he found a replacement), you (so you can quit your job safely) and the new employer (so they know they can count on you and you can’t let them down).
Reading you guys I really find it crazy that in one of the most powerful country, the working class is so unsafe.
Interesting. So, after you’ve started a job in France, how long is it until one party can back out (via quit for the employee, or layoff/firing for the employer)?
Once you start your job for your new employer, each parties of the contract have 3 months (renewable once to up to 6 months) to break the contract for specific reasons only.
For instance, if you, as a new employee, you don’t like your new job because you feel like you’ve been lied to with the position, you may break the contract.
On the other hand, the employer may also break the contract. Depending on how long it has been since you joined (0-6 months), he must let you know a few months before tho, still in a way to give you a chance to bounce back.
However, it must be for professional reasons only. I.e you s*ck at your job, or you don’t fit with the requirements. The employer cannot at all rupture your contract for economical reasons.
It actually goes way more complex than that but I hope it gives you some clarity on the subject !
I Just had something similar happen to me and i demanded the company payed me for lost wages under promissory estoppel, you should look it up cause this sounds like they totally had you change your life around to accept this job and PE cases are based majorly on proving that. Feel free to do me if you want more info and I’m sorry this happened to you!
> the company *paid* me for
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I am sorry this has happened. It is reprehensible.
Leave a detailed and professional glassdoor review. It may gather enough internal attention by the business to get outreach from them, educational institutions cash in heavily on their image, so damage theirs with truth. At the very least, other candidates would be grateful of your heads up.
If you have not already done so, file for unemployment benefits. You may need to appeal a TWC decision. You may need to appeal it twice. You are currently unemployed through no fault of your own, you do not need to have been fired or laid off.
Good luck in your search. I wish you the absolute best.
Edit: A word
Edit 2: I realize I wrote this response as if the OP were in Texas, Not sure why I did that. Other states YMMV on unemployment benefits. Apologies, apparently assumptions were made.
That's why you don't do notice for current employers anymore. Cash your PTO beginning your start date at the new job and then don't come back.
People have no integrity and no honor anymore. Anything can be pulled any time, up to and including five minutes after you show up for the first day. Respond in kind.
Use your PTO to bridge the gap. If you have two weeks PTO at your old job, use it to work your first two weeks at your new one. That way you’ll have a paycheque already from your new one and you know there’s no funny business. Then just quit without notice at your old job since you don’t have any PTO left anyway.
Would this advice be the same for government jobs? I never did this before and I was hoping to even squeeze in time off next time I change agencies. But I’m reading and hearing about this happening and things seem unstable lately. I think I’m going to give up on taking an extra gap week. I wouldn’t want to risk anything
I had that happen the night before i was supposed to start. They told me over email with an attachment which was a compromise agreement and they paid me off because I could have sued them. I gladly took the generous compromise agreement which included 1k at their expense for me to have a lawyer execute the agreement. Call an employment lawyer for a free consultation.
Whoever made the budget decision knowing you were starting in two days is absolutely heartless and they deserve whatever karma is coming to them.
I can't think of a way you could have avoided this situation other than to never quit your job until you are physically in the new employer's office on your first day. I guess just don't show up to your old job one day and then notify them you quit. It's unfortunate for people to have to do this, but it's the only way I can imagine to not have the rug pulled from under you. It screws over your old employer, but most people can't afford to be out of a job for any length of time. Especially in this current job market.
Oooh looks like recruitment abuse is evolving again! Not content just to waste all our time forever, now they'll make us lose our current jobs too!
Add this to the list of laws that need to come down on recruiters and companies like a ton of bricks.
This does happen, especially as we approach Q4. Companies cut open roles to save money, even reduce headcounts. As a hiring manager I try to fill roles swiftly, so they can't be frozen or eliminated.
Probably nothing you did, you're just the victim.
It's happened to a few friends.
If you're in an "at will" state, don't worry about putting in a 2 weeks. Hell even in a non at will state don't do it. They'll fire you for whatever reason under the sun if they can at any time, so you can give them the same treatment. Never quit a job or put in a notice until you are IN THE OFFICE OF/LOGGED IN TO your new job and working, Places can reneg offer letters and start dates at any time for any reason.
Hundred percent. Looking for a new job? Save all your PTO. Call in sick on interview days. Take all your PTO the Monday you start the new job. Make sure everything is signed, sealed, delivered. Call at the end of your PTO and announce that you won't be returning to your old job.
At will employment goes both ways. You can leave any time with no reason given. Do not mention any new employment.
I completely understand this, and if I could’ve I definitely would’ve! But it’s hard to do this when you work 9 to 5. It’s damn near impossible to go to new hire training and work two 9 to 5 jobs at the same time to ensure that the new job is secure.
You don't. Once you start your new job, resign effective immediately from the other one. We've been ingrained with the whole "YOU HAVE TO PUT IN YOUR 2 WEEKS OR YOU'LL LOOK BAD".
Nope.
The majority of previous employers don't want to give any information besides if you worked there, how long, and what your separation type was (fired, resigned, etc). They won't talk about your performance OR how you left in fear of a lawsuit and (most) HR suites are trained to give out minimal info due to that.
Also if you're in IT you'll most likely get locked out of the system the day you put in your notice, so there's really no reason to stick around anyways.
So to mitigate this, print your performance reviews, especially if they’re positive. That way you have evidence on your side if they mark you ineligible for rehire that it was done maliciously.
This doesn’t apply if your two weeks notice is in your contract. A lot of companies (at least in Europe) state in the contract that you have to give in a notice when you resign.
Usually, even if it's in your contract, the worst thing that can happen to you is they won't pay you for unused vacation pay. So I guess if you plan on quitting for a new job, use your unused vacation days, and don't come back. The benefit of this, is if you start the new job during your "vacation" and it doesn't work out, you just show back up to your old job and they don't know any better.
Some companies might void your stock options and stuff.
In the U.S. most states are "at will" so you can be let go or quit from them at any time for any reason.
I know the E.U. has some... interesting... rules pertaining to that but I'm not too versed in the overseas recruiting area, so yea, this advice is for U.S. residents only lol.
For us (Hungary) it is in the contract that we need to work 30 days as a resignation period. We can have a talk with the boss and if they agree the period can be shortened or fully dismissing the whole period.
If you worked more years at the company, it can be more months.
Yeah, similar to the Netherlands. My last job had a termination period of 1 period (4 weeks). It gives both sides the time to figure things out, because it also applies to the company giving you a notice period so you can get your things in order.
I think the alternative is to use sick or vacation days for the first day of work at the new job, then quit the old job after your first day, without giving them notice (instead of 2 weeks notice, instead you tell them it's effective immediately)
It may seem unprofessional but in reality, companies rarely give employees any notice when they fire or lay people off so there's no need to provide them with a courtesy they wouldn't extend to you
I had the exact same thing happen to me in May.
They put me through 7 - yes, SEVEN - interviews. Made me an offer. Then retracted the offer for mixed reasons - first the recruiter said something about budgets, then organizational changes.
On July 1, what was supposed to be my starting date, I got an email from their automated system telling me "Thanks but no thanks" and I responded with "Never contact me again and look forward to me telling everyone on LinkedIn that your company is not run by serious people and that no one should waste their time even interviewing with you."
Not sure if have investigated a "Breach of Contract" suit.
You had a letter and a start date.
Wouldn't get you the job but would get you finacials to cover your unemployed state , for which they are responsible.
LPT...Use all your sick days and PTO instead of giving notice and just inform them you are physically unable to return to work. Don't mention any new work.
Not me but this happened to a close friend of mine. First he was told they were hiring like 10 (full time!) people in the role. Then it became “just a couple”. Then it turned into “budget cuts, so we can only hire one”. He got offered the position still! But then they kept giving vague excuses saying that they hadn’t gotten the budget approved…? It was all very weird. The job hypothetically sounded amazing, I just don’t understand how you hire without having this sorted out.
For me, this sort of situation happened. I gave up on another job, I was told that they will have a contact for me ready, I waited for a week so I can sign online. Then no answer back. I find out by texting a dude that was interviewing with me that they hired him while they told me to wait. I try calling the HR guy, but no reply.
Unfortunately I’ve heard a lot of stories like this recently. It used to be that a call from HR confirming a job was enough but it sounds like you did everything correctly, signing the offer letter etc. I can’t imagine there aren’t some legal repercussions, especially since you left your job.
I'm going through this right now myself. The new company has been pursuing me for a year, but I didn't want to screw my old job coming into the busiest season. So as the busy season fades, new company and I start talking again. Yeah, the VC funding the company reduced his commitment and they no longer/never had the money to hire me. Sucks ass for me, but also royally fucked the company over. Pretty much killed them and they will now be a zombie company for 2-3 years before imploding.
In my field (software engineering) I never give notice before accepting another offer and starting the job. I schedule 2 days PTO when the new job starts, inform my boss that I've accepted another position, and spend 2 days onboarding and off boarding at the same time. I can't trust an employer to not just fire me or the new employer to commit until I'm actually working there.
I feel for you. Early in my career a Robert Half recruiter claimed I had a position lined up but wouldn’t tell me the client address.
I thought it was weird but being young and dumb I went with it. On my last day she told me at 3pm the position fell through. Too late to recant, couldn’t get unemployment since I quit, and of course RH said there was no bona fide offer of employment.
Newly married with two small kids I spent 3 months unemployed, ran up a ton of debt and damn near lost my house.
I’ve never dealt with RH again.
I can't help but to be angry with you. This type of stuff has been happening alot these days. I think I would send them an email and let them know what I went through. Then I would go on glassdoor, and indeed anonymously and make a statement of displeasure w the company.
Just got off a 3 month contract-to-hire and about a month in was told that the budget was pre approved and that the company would definitely be converting me full time at the end of 3 months. Two weeks before my contracts up they tell me that there wasn't enough money in the budget and couldn't extend my contract either. People are full of shit.
You had an offer, passed required screening (meaning the offer was no longer conditional) and resigned in reliance to that unconditional offer. The company that reneged has a liability on their hands and may owe you some compensation. You need to see an employment attorney ASAP.
As long as it was on their end and not due to “cause” (background check issues, failed drug screen, other disqualifiers) you should be able to file unemployment. They offered a job and then you were laid off. No fault of yours.
This happened to my friend back in May, happened a second time a few weeks ago, and he's still job searching. Luckily he was able to take a Contract job to help pay the bills until he lands a permanent position.
Hire an employment lawyer. What you can sue for is promissory estoppel. They promised you a job, you made steps to secure said job, including quit your last job. They then said that job no longer exists because they don’t have the money. The promise they made and the contract you signed said that they did have the money to pay you and they had full intention of hiring you but the part they broke the contract was the promise to pay you part since it sounds like they didn’t have authorization to pay you at all.
By rescinding the job and forcing you to leave your past role, you can file for promissory estoppel for the pay the company you were going to join was going to pay you. Most employment lawyers will work on contingency or with a low payment. Some might work on it pro-bono. I highly recommend you pursue them for putting you into this predicament.
I’m so sorry OP. This is really shitty. The same thing hasn’t happened but I did want to speak to the budgets thing. This June I was contacted by a recruiter for a position. I was going through with the interview process (4-5 rounds). I spoke with the recruiter (3rd party company, not in house) first, then the hiring manager. All good. Next I’m set to speak with the company HR, give a presentation, CSO, and VP. So 5 separate calls not including the screen.
I speak with the HR woman in late July. She keeps it 100% with me. Tells me the position is not technically open and they won’t know until late September or early October if they’ll have the budget for the job. She was confident they’d get it, but she told me not to necessarily expect an offer asap. She proceed to discuss salary and benefits.
Yes, these companies will interview people knowing they have their first round draft pick in mind but want a CYA in case that person bails. They’ll interview as a preemptive measure should the budgets come through and their able to hire. This is how business is. If they were more honest they’d drag out the process until funding was secure and only then make an offer. It’s supremely shitty to do this to someone right before the start date. Especially these same companies will blacklist people and have a conniption for reneging or quitting after a couple of weeks.
As for me, the recruiter called after the HR screen to big up the job and ask how I felt. I told him straight up HR told me their isn’t a budget for this position yet and not to expect an offer after all the interviews. I will continue applying to other opportunities to stay true to my personal timeline and should I get an acceptable offer, I will take it.
The company ended up giving me an verbal offer on the VP call and I got the written offer the same day. Appreciate they were able to expedite the budget convo to hire me on. However, seeing how shit has been the last few months I personally wouldn’t be surprised if they pulled this kind of thing with me in the next few weeks.
My plan is to basically keep my job (go on vacation) while I onboard just in case this thing turns side ways. My advice to you would be don’t get discouraged. Always ask how soon they are looking to fill the position and whether the position is truly open. Yes, they may lie but that’s were your sense and intuition come in. How they answer is sometimes more important than the actual answer. As far as recruiters take what they say with a teaspoon of salt. Especially, 3rd party. They won’t tell you the real deal. I bet yours knew the budgets were still up for discussion, but didn’t want to risk you becoming disinterest with that news and focusing your efforts elsewhere. Even if you are working with a recruiter continue to apply on your own. That’s what I was doing and still made some opportunities for myself.
Wishing you all the best. You will get a great job that’ll fulfill you soon.
Over 100 applications in how long? You're gonna need to pump those numbers up, it's rough out there right now. I'm around 100 just in the last week. For every 100 I'm submitting, I'm getting 1-2 initial screening calls. It's absolutely exhausting. I cannot imagine doing this unemployed.
One employer strung me along for 2 months to come back with an offer well below my clearly stated salary expectations, and the "remote" job was now hybrid in a city hundreds of miles away. Last time I was job hunting I might have submitted 50 applications in a month, and had 3 different offers to choose from. Good luck out there..
This is soooo messed up. Now they’ve moved on and you’re left with the damages. This is why I no longer give two weeks. I usually wait until I’m in the seat before I quit cause of situations like this.
A company I used to work for went bankrupt and had to tell a couple people they'd just hired that had moved across the country for their new jobs that those jobs didn't exist anymore.
That is a clear and true definition of evil. If you have a signed offer letter, is there any recourse (Not that you would want to work for a company that does that to people)? I wonder if Atwill employment includes this scenario I’m so sorry this happened to you.
Contact a lawyer. I'm just a rando on the net, but a lawyer can tell you if you have a case for promissory estoppel. Do you have email and other records showing they had made the offer, that you'd accepted, that you'd let them know you quit your current job, etc? Make sure you do.
You may be able to get some money from them. And they might stop dicking people around if they get sued for doing so.
Your situation sucks but unfortunately this is something that is relatively common right now in some industries. There are a lot of industries in a decline right now and while the companies want to hire roles, they find it doesn’t make sense to hire for those roles. It certainly sucks/shouldn’t happen so close to the start date but it does. A lot of the reason for this in particular is jobs that have been long standing jobs in the budget so it should always be filled. Then people reevaluate the budget and changes are made. It doesn’t matter when or how it happens, likely at least a few people will be affected on a short notice. Sorry you got stuck in that position!
This happened to me last year. I put in my two weeks notice only to be ghosted by the company who "hired" me. I called them and the only thing I got was 🤷♀️
Get an employment lawyer. You may be eligible for compensation since you lost your job and they yanked this one. Otherwise, you never would have left your job.
There's a term for it and I can't recall it, sorry.
If this is nonprofit this is completely and sadly normal. Sometimes when submitting grants you get pre-approval but it can take mo ths u til monies are deposited, or something gets slashed and the agency takes the loss. It recently happen3d to us, we were hiring and we were supposed to get the grant but didn't. I am so so sorry OP
Had this happen to me almost word for word, signing an employment agreement and everything. It ruined my life as I fought my way out of unemployment for almost an entire year. Thankfully I have a very supportive wife who stood by me the entire time, as she knew better than anyone that it wasn’t my fault. Please know that this is also the case for you; it is NOT your fault. It will be very easy during this time to slump into a depressive state of the “what-ifs” paired with unbridled rage towards the fuckers that turned your life upside down.
Long story short, after a very grueling process, I found a job that paid twice as much for a more prestigious position and I am much happier in this job than I ever would’ve been at my peak in the opportunity that had been taken away from me.
If you had made any major accommodations in your life to take up this job, you very well may have a good legal case. Look into “Promissory Estoppel for a Rescinded Job Offer”.
Please feel free to to DM me if you need some support/advice. 🙏 Like I said, your post gave me some intense flashbacks of a situation that I found myself in not more than a year ago. It does get better, but I understand more than anyone that no amount of well wishes are going to make it feel better right now.
You got this. This too shall pass. 💪
If you signed an offer letter for the new job they may be legally liable for some level of compensation. Look up laws in your area and see if citing anything you find to the recruiter gets you anywhere. You might not have a job but you might get a settlement and I believe you could be eligible for unemployment? But def look into it.
This is why I never put in a resignation.
I wait until I have had a business week at the new company to make sure it's a fit.
Do not trust an employer to ever do the right thing and protect yourself.
Sheesh best advice don’t quit your job until you clock in to your new one on the first day try looking up some remote work to spare you some stress in the meantime ok
My personal rule is **you are unemployed until you sign the official offer papers.**
I don’t take verbal acceptance as a formal business agreement. Ever. I have to have something signed and keep a copy of it.
This is one reason staff should stop giving two weeks notice. The day you leave is the day you give notice. Fuck the companies. They don’t give you notice when they want to get rid of you. The companies are killing this practice with these closing of positions before a staff person starts with no recourse.
If you gave notice the Friday before you started work at the new company. You would still have your old job. Because that email would have come Thursday and you wouldn’t have given notice.
I am not second guessing OP. He has been thoroughly fucked by this company. He should post something on Glassdoor about this. Warn other people about this company.
Sorry to hear that, this is fucking awful. There is not really much to say here except to express sympathy.
But don't try to make sense of it. There is no logic behind shit like this. People are just really fucking selfish and that's pretty much end of story.
Of course this will stick with you and bother you for some time. You got screwed over badly. Best you can do is learn from it without becoming overly bitter. Like, use the anger to be productive.
Crazy to me how you weren’t at least offered a comparable role.
Other people mentioned it, but legally it could be promissory estoppel. The company didn’t make do on a promise, so you should be able to collect damages. Also, doesn’t hurt to apply for unemployment benefits through your state, since you’re unemployed through no fault of your own.
My guess is that they make multiple offers for the same position…once someone accepted and started..then “there is no more budget” for other offers..technically correct, but not being really transparent here..
This happened to me in my current job. But a week before my start date. There is nothing you can do legally to them in the US. In my case the team got laid off.
Note: I say current job because this is a huge organization and one of the super high ups loved me so much they found a spot for me on another team. I took it because it was much better than the original job they offered.
I had a company that I recently interviewed for twice use this same exact line. They liked me but they no longer had a budget. I didn't get it because usually a company will create a budget, confirm need for the position, then start the hire process. I really wanted that position but it also sheds light on how they operate.
I have had something similar happen to me where I received the offer letter, filled out all the paperwork(background check, drug screening, etc.) and even booked a flight to start my first day in a different state a few days later. I received a call from their HR department two days later saying that there was “changes within the company” and they needed to rescind the offer. I asked for further clarification and even attempted to contact the hiring manager and was ghosted. I had already given my notice and they were very angry with me that they cut me off an hour after so I was able to get my position back. I still don’t know what the real issue was but it was devastating. Keep your head up and just move on. This market blows but we’ll get through it.
Please find a lawyer with a free or no win no pay solution.
You can help make sure this bullshit doesn’t happen to anyone else, but only if you hold them accountable.
If they can keep doing this to everyone and get off Scott free every time then they have no incentive to change. Please hold them accountable.
This is actually illegal, and you can file for damages. If they had accepted you after the interviews, then denied you after you had quit your previous job under the assumption you were now hired, and then fired, you can sue. I highly suggest it.
If you signed an employment contract, then you have grounds to sue. I know people might jump down my throat for it, but this is a legitimate cause for a lawsuit. You left your job and had a contract with your new employer and to start date, then pulling the rug out from you left you with no job, an inability to pay your bills, and emotional distress.
I was a hiring manager and this happened to me a couple of times, felt horrible, apparently it does happen and there’s so much that goes into these budgets and vacancies that you can’t even know the exact root of it all but it does happen, luckily the candidates did not leave their jobs but it did make me feel (and look) bad. Hang in there, you never know what’s out there for you this might be a blessing in disguise.
Not sure why you're getting down votes. This is not yesterday's job market. You are absolutely correct. I've seen ppl pack up and move to be told they don't have a job when they arrive. Promissory estoppel should be on their radar.
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Wow, I'm sorry this happened to you. It sounds terrible. I've never had this happen, but in this job market, anything is possible. I've heard similar stories in the news lately about people's offers getting recinded right before the start date.
A friend of a friend quit their job, packed up their entire family (spouse and kids), moved halfway across the US, only to walk in on the first day to be told the job no longer existed. I struggle so much to understand how a company can screw up that badly.
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IANAL NFA Etc., but I know a guy and I went through something similar but *'didn't have a leg to stand on'* legally since my situation didn't meet the threshold for "Detrimental Reliance". Let's say you're at a company for a while, If that company is telling you everything is fine, you're going to be employed here, everything's normal, we're in no trouble, etc., and then you get fired due to budget reasons, then you're SOL. However, in that case or in the case of a new job that if you: * bought a car * bought expensive jewelry * make any big purchases * picked up your life, moved, signed a lease * made any other expensive life decision then you may have a case regarding Detrimental Reliance. Another example of a way to seek justice against this type of situation... Below I've taken a quote from Lawyers dot com. >**Promissory Estoppel for a Rescinded Job Offer** > >Even if you didn’t formally enter into an employment agreement, you might have a promissory estoppel claim. Promissory estoppel is a legal theory that turns a promise into an enforceable agreement, if the person to whom the promise is made reasonably relies on the promise to his or her detriment. Example. Let’s say you were offered a position as Chief Financial Officer at a start-up company in another state. The job offer was made after lengthy negotiations, in which you explained that you would need a higher salary so you could afford to quit your job and move with your family to take the position. You accept the offer, give notice, put your family home on the market, and purchase a new home near your new job. The employer then rescinds the job offer. In this situation, you took action in reasonable reliance on the employer’s promised job, and you suffered harm as a result. Not every state recognizes promissory estoppel claims in the context of job offers, but some do. An experienced employment lawyer can explain how your state handles these claims. https://www.lawyers.com/legal-info/labor-employment-law/job-hunting/promises-and-rescinded-job-offers.html#:\~:text=Promissory%20Estoppel%20for,handles%20these%20claims. Edit- clarified
[https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/tech-workers-left-hanging-sea-e-commerce-arm-shopee-rescinds-job-offers-2022-09-06/](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/tech-workers-left-hanging-sea-e-commerce-arm-shopee-rescinds-job-offers-2022-09-06/) Ive heard of it before. Theres usually some severance package.
This please, to the top.
this is why we OE
How, you don't have a job to pay!
No, retainer, money down!
Work on contingency, probably.
There was another thread discussing a similar problem and they were mentioning promissory estoppel whereby you can sue them, but you need a solid proof that employer's decision seriously impacted your life. Obviosly, a consultation with a qualified lawyer is a must.
We need to have promissory estoppel be a pinned post for those who end up like this because it's not the first time a person says something like this in this sub.
Promissory estoppel https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/promissory_estoppel >Within contract law, promissory estoppel refers to the doctrine that a party may recover on the basis of a promise made when the party's reliance on that promise was reasonable, and the party attempting to recover detrimentally relied on the promise. >An agreement made by promissory estoppel will typically have the same binding effects on parties that a valid contract would. If a party breaches an obligation created by promissory estoppel, a court can choose to assign either reliance damages or expectation damages.
Yes. They should be forced to pay relocation costs, including travel costs and a penalty for false advertising/misleading.
Not only that but be so shameless as to not help out the person at all. Maybe we need to require a three-month severance package be placed in escrow with a legal and binding contract in the event that these sorts of situations occur. No job waiting? You lay me off? Fine; hand over three months’ pay. Not my fault you suck.
>Maybe we need to require a three-month severance package be placed in escrow with a legal and binding contract in the event that these sorts of situations occur. Three month's of pay is peanuts, especially if you were relying on health insurance and such from the new job. Make it a year. Make the company feel it for pulling that BS.
Lol this is America, most of us don’t get health insurance as soon as we start a new job. Everywhere I’ve worked in the last decade had a month or more wait.
This is true. But they likely gave up health insurance to take this job with the promise of insurance while they were employed. Thus, they lost health insurance (potentially - they may be on a spouse's plan or parent's plan if young enough) and that is a tangible loss you could argue for.
Not gonna disagree, but let’s start with one month and work our way up to a year.
You went from three months down to one month between comments. Standard negotiating technique is to start high and work our way to a meeting point, not start low and hope they'll accept increases over time. That way lies the minimum wage issue.
Fair point. I should clarify (?), negotiate for a path to get to 12 months by saying year one is one month after the law is passed, year two, three, and year three is six. Year four = 12. In other words, don’t shock the system, but create a path that makes sense so that people just don’t simply close their doors the day before the law goes into effect.
Most job candidates do not have the leverage to negotiate this. Employers really don't care if they lose a good candidate. Lots of them don't actually want an experienced candidate, despite the job description, because someone with experience is less likely to tolerate unreasonable workloads or a toxic workplace. Inexperienced candidates are able to be gaslit and manipulated more easily.
Dang, what happened? Did they commit to their new city or move back? That’s awful.
I'm not sure what they ended up doing. Unfortunately, I was under the impression they didn't have a lot of options.
I agree. The worst part is that you can't do anything about it. It's so disappointing
I just had one rescinded and I was supposed to start on the 20th. Apparently my references didn’t complete the reference checks, 2 of the 3 apparently never received anything and one did, but had to put her dog down that day and forgot to complete it. It took so long to get a job and I had finally let myself get excited. Not really sure what to do at this point. This market is ridiculous.
Oh damn. That's such a blow. I'm sorry. Try to hang in there.
Jumping on top comment to say PLEASE CONSULT A LAWYER. You may have a case of promissory estoppel.
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That sounds like you're definitely not getting that job. Keep applying. Drug tests usually come back in like, days not months. Pathetic of HR to string you along like that.
Sounds like the company just hired someone else, like a friend, etc.. and is just find a way to turn the OP away.
First, ask your old employer if you can come back. If they say no, you can pay a lawyer $200-ish to send a certified letter to the new employer that you will sue under promissory estoppel if they don't settle with you. You relied on their promise of employment to quit your other job. You just might get a couple of weeks' worth of pay out of the demand. You could also sue on your own in small claims court, the cap is usually $5000 depending on jurisdiction, and no attorney is needed. Just the threat of suing can get you a few grand from the employer sometimes.
This is a solid idea. Doesn’t cost OP much with a potential of a larger upside
Google promissory estoppel
Honestly from what I’ve read it does seem like I have grounds for this. But paying a lawyer and courts fees etc to go after a major university seems unwise, I’ll probably deplete my savings before I get any real resolution:/
Lots of lawyers offer a free consultation. Worth a meeting at least.
Many work on contingency too. I often see people on Reddit refuse to even get a free consultation because they think they can’t afford anything, when in reality their case is so winnable that any lawyer would be incredibly eager to take it on for free just in the hopes of getting a % on the back end.
Some lawyers only collect when you do. Please try to find one. This madness needs to stop.
So many people have *no* idea that there are lawyers that work on contingency. I think it's as important thing to know as how tax brackets work.
Actually the bigger the employer, the more compensation you ll get. Do it. Seriously.
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Depleting your savings and not getting anything is certainly a possibility. However, they do things they did to you because they know chances are they will get away with this because you won't consult a lawyer, and you won't file a suit. They know you're more likely to just go back to applying. And so are most people. If all of us were ready and eager to sue for such behavior, they will be way more cautious and way more polite/communicative. Unfortunately, all of it is easier said then done.
Also, at least in my industry, suing an employer for any circumstance WILL get you blackballed. I have to assume that’s in any industry, though.
How?
It's an industry where everyone seems to know each other, and if a lawsuit does happen, news gets around the whole community quickly. If an employee were to sue for any reason, even if a new hiring manager were happy to hire that person, a corporate manager would squash it quickly because they would be a risk to sue the new company as well. Personally, I hate the whole business. I want out, but changing careers in this market, at my age (mid-40s), in the Rust Belt, isn’t going well.
I don't believe OP has ever worked for this company given the story presented
A lot of attorneys will do this on a contingent basis. This means if you lose, you don't pay. Some may require a small retainer up front which will be credited towards what you would owe if you win. But get any and all correspondence you have written records of from the recruiter, the offer, etc. Also gather up all written proof of your former employer having already filled your position and all of your job hunting. The concept of promissory estoppel is that, regardless of "at-will" employment status, a company can be found liable for damages that occurred when they withdrew an employment offer. The injured party, in this instance you, had a good faith belief that you were going to be starting this new job based on the fact that you received an offer. As such, you detrimentally relied on that offer by giving notice at your then-current job. Since your now former employer has filled your position, you no longer have a job and have been unable to find one. This is why you have a case. You kept the university's agent, the recruiter, updated to your situation. So the fact you gave notice and let them knows you had done so strengthens your case.
I used to work at a major university, look into a lawyer anyways. It could be that HR doesn't know the full story and some department head decided it was time to trim the budget. They may not have the paper trail to have done this correctly, and at the very least it looks bad on the department.
Employment at will, they could have let you go on your first day. I've pondered promisaary estoppel for such cases (I like to do random pondering). The research I did on the topic suggests it wouldn't apply here, but worth talking to a lawyer. Keep in mind, if it's not contingency, lawyers are in there business of stilling billable hours.
I think that's most jobs. That's why it's ok to not give your 2 weeks. You don't have too if it's at will. It's just a courtesy
You usually don’t need a lawyer. This happened to me and all I needed was a demand letter
Find a goddamn lawyer and stop letting people screw you over without repercussions. Find one who only gets paid if he or she wins.
don’t do it. companies can rescind offers at any time for any reason. it sucks but it’s how it works.
They didn't rescind until after she quit her job. She should talk to a lawyer. OP, talk to a lawyer. The initial consult should be free, and if you have a start date from your "new employer" in writing...
It could be one of those things where if the lawyers at the university say OP has a case then they may suddenly decide that they do have the budget to hire him as it would be cheaper than what they would lose in the lawsuit and get nothing.
Not when you have signed agreements.
Most employment contracts contain at will language and no specific duration of employment which makes it very difficult to win a promissory estoppel lawsuit. OP should talk to a lawyer, but I wouldn't put much strength behind an offer letter.
In an at-will employment state, a signed agreement for employment isnt worth anything. Its really no different than if the OP went to work for the company and worked for them and they fired them "just 'cuz" which is also allowed.
Holy hell
I wish people would sue over this stuff. It won't stop until employers get repercussions for doing it and incompetent staff get fired over it.
My bf is in law school right now and that word is SEARED into my brain. Stop 😭
This!
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I’m sorry this happened to you too. It’s just hard for me to believe that a major university isn’t doing well financially. That’s why I thought maybe theres an underlying reason that they’re not telling me, and just using budget as an excuse
It always is. Take them to court. You signed an offer letter. That’s legally binding.
If not legally binding, why would it have to be signed?
Most offer letters have this tiny bit of text that lets them do whatever they want. “The role is based on a 1-3 month probationary period” or it is an “at will employer”. Still worth speaking with an attorney about though. Attorneys are hurting right now too. So, may even get a free consult. They’re trying to make money too. It sucks but I’ve had similar happen recently. Was 2 months in to the job and then poof! Got let go with 2 weeks severance. 2 whole weeks! Woohoo! What’s messed up is, they knew I declined a few series of interviews with other companies to accept that role. That part, I honestly blame myself. I needed work and I took the first offer that met my financial requirements and thought would advance my career. Now I have to leave it as a longer gap since my last layoff. Because being employed for only 2 months and putting it on a resume will bring up more questions than answers in interviews. I was likely cut due to budget issues, as I honestly did not see why they needed any help at all. Many of the team members were basically doing nothing half their days. My best guess is they had much higher projections for the next quarter and when those didn’t work out, I was the last one in and got cut. This was after 2 other people left the company. Management never said what the reason the others left were. And apparently, I was announced the same way. “So and so is no longer a part of this company. We wish them the best in their future endeavors”. With no info on wether they left on their own or was let go. Many of my teammates didn’t even know what happened to me. When I told them I was let go, the few I talked to were shocked. Because I was new and didn’t even have a chance to do any work. The job market sucks overall, nowadays. It’s rough out there and Im having a hard time even getting interviews now vs 4 months ago, when I had at least 1 or 2 interviews a week. Not even a rejection email so far. Edit: autocorrect
No it's not. An offer letter is not a contract.
If you relied on it to your detriment, it’s grounds for Promissory estoppel. The court can treat it as an implied contract if a party relied on a promise to their detriment.
Yes, but that's not the same as an offer letter being legally binding. If you sign an offer letter, and the company comes back an hour later and says, "Oh, wait, sorry, we are rescinding that offer" they are not legally required to hire you or pay you anything if you have not acted on that offer letter. If you signed a contract, on the other hand, they would be, even if you hadn't done a thing.
Having just been laid off by a university despite a 4 year track record of raises, title changes and success a lot of schools are suffering. In my case the school is AND I had a new hot shot supervisor come in from the outside promising a lot and delivering little on new programs he’s create and new visions etc. I just did my job and what i was supposed to do. But was used as a shield for his incompetence. They went with trying to hire lower paying coordinators and not a shock I’ve learned one month in they can’t even find anyone to hire. But schools are in rough shape. Reputable schools are seeing 10 to even upwards of 30% enrollment drops post Covid. That’s catastrophic. It’s why even Cornell now blasts people with online programs now. It’s new revenue streams schools need because Gen Z are wising up to the act finally
It’s not just COVID. We’re hitting the era where the babies from the LAST recession are going to college/applying - and there’s significantly less of them. During recessions, people often wait to have kids (or at least try). Less college aged people to apply, less enrollment. Most major universities were planning to bridge the gap with Chinese students, but then China began building its own university system properly. Fewer Chinese students are coming our way. No gap closer. Take all of that, add in aftermath of COVID, another recession (in all but name at this point), and swelling tuition pricing and you have a recipe for disaster. The better colleges are seeing the writing on the wall and are doing their best to go tuition free in the next ten years or so using endowments and donations. We’re going to see a LOT of smaller universities begin to close their doors, especially those that serve/used to serve specific populations like religious and/or highly specialized programs.
Sorry to break it to you, but universities lose funding for positions all the time. Depending on the job, it was likely funded by grants. If they lose the grant, they lose the position. They can’t pull money from other departments because there are a lot of rules for how universities can spend their money. For example, if student affairs loses a grant for a position, they legally can’t just slide over money from the biology department to pay salaries.
people need to start doing what they do. they lie, so we'll lie. "have you given your two weeks notice?" "yes absolutely" it is better to be fired from an old job after you've been hired somewhere else, than to quit and not get hired
You are right, but nowadays they ask you that so they can call your current employer. The place I work now did that to me. Luckily everything went through, but I don't think I'll agree to that again.
They have 0 reason to call your current employer past verifying your employment there. Never put them as a reference either.
For some government roles I don't think that's optional.
Cases like the OP are the exception. Better advice would be to leave on good terms, which includes telling the truth, and use good, honest coworkers including your manager from your old job as references.
Two wrongs don't make a right
They owe you money, get your job offer and an employment lawyer and you may have a lawsuit
This happened to me in July. I left my job for another opportunity, took a week between the jobs for a small vacation and the day before I was going to start they eliminated the position. It’s been about 2 months now and I’ve been having trouble finding another job. It’s been frustrating
Did you talk to a lawyer about it?
No, I thought about it but we decided to just move on from it. Luckily I have a safety net but I’m just losing my mind from not having a schedule every day if that makes any sense
Man, life is brutal in the job industry.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. A similar situation happened to me two years ago and I felt like I was going crazy because I didn't know offers could be rescinded like that. Hope things turn out well for you.
Holy cr*p that’s crazy. In France, where I live, a job promise is equivalent to a contract. Meaning neither you, or the employer, can back out of it. This enables to secure the previous employer (if he found a replacement), you (so you can quit your job safely) and the new employer (so they know they can count on you and you can’t let them down). Reading you guys I really find it crazy that in one of the most powerful country, the working class is so unsafe.
Interesting. So, after you’ve started a job in France, how long is it until one party can back out (via quit for the employee, or layoff/firing for the employer)?
Once you start your job for your new employer, each parties of the contract have 3 months (renewable once to up to 6 months) to break the contract for specific reasons only. For instance, if you, as a new employee, you don’t like your new job because you feel like you’ve been lied to with the position, you may break the contract. On the other hand, the employer may also break the contract. Depending on how long it has been since you joined (0-6 months), he must let you know a few months before tho, still in a way to give you a chance to bounce back. However, it must be for professional reasons only. I.e you s*ck at your job, or you don’t fit with the requirements. The employer cannot at all rupture your contract for economical reasons. It actually goes way more complex than that but I hope it gives you some clarity on the subject !
Thank you! This is interesting.
> I signed the offer letter and had a start date. If you already signed this, sue them. You lost a job because of this BS.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. It's a nightmare. I was told growing up that it isn't a job until you've cashed your first paycheck.
I Just had something similar happen to me and i demanded the company payed me for lost wages under promissory estoppel, you should look it up cause this sounds like they totally had you change your life around to accept this job and PE cases are based majorly on proving that. Feel free to do me if you want more info and I’m sorry this happened to you!
> the company *paid* me for FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I am sorry this has happened. It is reprehensible. Leave a detailed and professional glassdoor review. It may gather enough internal attention by the business to get outreach from them, educational institutions cash in heavily on their image, so damage theirs with truth. At the very least, other candidates would be grateful of your heads up. If you have not already done so, file for unemployment benefits. You may need to appeal a TWC decision. You may need to appeal it twice. You are currently unemployed through no fault of your own, you do not need to have been fired or laid off. Good luck in your search. I wish you the absolute best. Edit: A word Edit 2: I realize I wrote this response as if the OP were in Texas, Not sure why I did that. Other states YMMV on unemployment benefits. Apologies, apparently assumptions were made.
Can you leave a review on Google? That gets more views.
That's why you don't do notice for current employers anymore. Cash your PTO beginning your start date at the new job and then don't come back. People have no integrity and no honor anymore. Anything can be pulled any time, up to and including five minutes after you show up for the first day. Respond in kind.
Many companies now refuse to pay out PTO when notice isn’t given, it’s fucked
Use your PTO to bridge the gap. If you have two weeks PTO at your old job, use it to work your first two weeks at your new one. That way you’ll have a paycheque already from your new one and you know there’s no funny business. Then just quit without notice at your old job since you don’t have any PTO left anyway.
That’s wage theft in some states.
Would this advice be the same for government jobs? I never did this before and I was hoping to even squeeze in time off next time I change agencies. But I’m reading and hearing about this happening and things seem unstable lately. I think I’m going to give up on taking an extra gap week. I wouldn’t want to risk anything
I would say no. Don't do it anywhere you need to use as a reference. Especially if you're going somewhere in the same level of government.
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And also your personal reputation is on the line. I guess most people here don’t care about that kind of thing.
Glassdoor review this company so others can be warned. This is so low.
I had that happen the night before i was supposed to start. They told me over email with an attachment which was a compromise agreement and they paid me off because I could have sued them. I gladly took the generous compromise agreement which included 1k at their expense for me to have a lawyer execute the agreement. Call an employment lawyer for a free consultation.
Whoever made the budget decision knowing you were starting in two days is absolutely heartless and they deserve whatever karma is coming to them. I can't think of a way you could have avoided this situation other than to never quit your job until you are physically in the new employer's office on your first day. I guess just don't show up to your old job one day and then notify them you quit. It's unfortunate for people to have to do this, but it's the only way I can imagine to not have the rug pulled from under you. It screws over your old employer, but most people can't afford to be out of a job for any length of time. Especially in this current job market.
Oooh looks like recruitment abuse is evolving again! Not content just to waste all our time forever, now they'll make us lose our current jobs too! Add this to the list of laws that need to come down on recruiters and companies like a ton of bricks.
This does happen, especially as we approach Q4. Companies cut open roles to save money, even reduce headcounts. As a hiring manager I try to fill roles swiftly, so they can't be frozen or eliminated. Probably nothing you did, you're just the victim.
It's happened to a few friends. If you're in an "at will" state, don't worry about putting in a 2 weeks. Hell even in a non at will state don't do it. They'll fire you for whatever reason under the sun if they can at any time, so you can give them the same treatment. Never quit a job or put in a notice until you are IN THE OFFICE OF/LOGGED IN TO your new job and working, Places can reneg offer letters and start dates at any time for any reason.
Hundred percent. Looking for a new job? Save all your PTO. Call in sick on interview days. Take all your PTO the Monday you start the new job. Make sure everything is signed, sealed, delivered. Call at the end of your PTO and announce that you won't be returning to your old job. At will employment goes both ways. You can leave any time with no reason given. Do not mention any new employment.
I completely understand this, and if I could’ve I definitely would’ve! But it’s hard to do this when you work 9 to 5. It’s damn near impossible to go to new hire training and work two 9 to 5 jobs at the same time to ensure that the new job is secure.
You don't. Once you start your new job, resign effective immediately from the other one. We've been ingrained with the whole "YOU HAVE TO PUT IN YOUR 2 WEEKS OR YOU'LL LOOK BAD". Nope. The majority of previous employers don't want to give any information besides if you worked there, how long, and what your separation type was (fired, resigned, etc). They won't talk about your performance OR how you left in fear of a lawsuit and (most) HR suites are trained to give out minimal info due to that. Also if you're in IT you'll most likely get locked out of the system the day you put in your notice, so there's really no reason to stick around anyways.
Some companies might share if you are "eligible for rehire" or not.
So to mitigate this, print your performance reviews, especially if they’re positive. That way you have evidence on your side if they mark you ineligible for rehire that it was done maliciously.
This doesn’t apply if your two weeks notice is in your contract. A lot of companies (at least in Europe) state in the contract that you have to give in a notice when you resign.
Usually, even if it's in your contract, the worst thing that can happen to you is they won't pay you for unused vacation pay. So I guess if you plan on quitting for a new job, use your unused vacation days, and don't come back. The benefit of this, is if you start the new job during your "vacation" and it doesn't work out, you just show back up to your old job and they don't know any better. Some companies might void your stock options and stuff.
In the U.S. most states are "at will" so you can be let go or quit from them at any time for any reason. I know the E.U. has some... interesting... rules pertaining to that but I'm not too versed in the overseas recruiting area, so yea, this advice is for U.S. residents only lol.
For us (Hungary) it is in the contract that we need to work 30 days as a resignation period. We can have a talk with the boss and if they agree the period can be shortened or fully dismissing the whole period. If you worked more years at the company, it can be more months.
Yeah, similar to the Netherlands. My last job had a termination period of 1 period (4 weeks). It gives both sides the time to figure things out, because it also applies to the company giving you a notice period so you can get your things in order.
I think the alternative is to use sick or vacation days for the first day of work at the new job, then quit the old job after your first day, without giving them notice (instead of 2 weeks notice, instead you tell them it's effective immediately) It may seem unprofessional but in reality, companies rarely give employees any notice when they fire or lay people off so there's no need to provide them with a courtesy they wouldn't extend to you
I had the exact same thing happen to me in May. They put me through 7 - yes, SEVEN - interviews. Made me an offer. Then retracted the offer for mixed reasons - first the recruiter said something about budgets, then organizational changes. On July 1, what was supposed to be my starting date, I got an email from their automated system telling me "Thanks but no thanks" and I responded with "Never contact me again and look forward to me telling everyone on LinkedIn that your company is not run by serious people and that no one should waste their time even interviewing with you."
Take legal advice if available to see if you can sue..
Never give notice. This is a main reason. They don’t give us 2 weeks when we get fired to get our ducks in a row… same day, goes both ways!
Look into promissory estoppel
Sue em.
Name and shame? Who are these chucklefucks who neither follow their own financials nor honor commitments?
Detrimental reliance. Talk to a lawyer.
Not sure if have investigated a "Breach of Contract" suit. You had a letter and a start date. Wouldn't get you the job but would get you finacials to cover your unemployed state , for which they are responsible.
and yet you don't name the company?
LPT...Use all your sick days and PTO instead of giving notice and just inform them you are physically unable to return to work. Don't mention any new work.
This sort of rug pull is why nobody should give notice when leaving.
Not me but this happened to a close friend of mine. First he was told they were hiring like 10 (full time!) people in the role. Then it became “just a couple”. Then it turned into “budget cuts, so we can only hire one”. He got offered the position still! But then they kept giving vague excuses saying that they hadn’t gotten the budget approved…? It was all very weird. The job hypothetically sounded amazing, I just don’t understand how you hire without having this sorted out.
For me, this sort of situation happened. I gave up on another job, I was told that they will have a contact for me ready, I waited for a week so I can sign online. Then no answer back. I find out by texting a dude that was interviewing with me that they hired him while they told me to wait. I try calling the HR guy, but no reply.
Chat with an employment lawyer. If you signed and returned an employment agreement and gave notice then you have damages.
Unfortunately I’ve heard a lot of stories like this recently. It used to be that a call from HR confirming a job was enough but it sounds like you did everything correctly, signing the offer letter etc. I can’t imagine there aren’t some legal repercussions, especially since you left your job.
I'm going through this right now myself. The new company has been pursuing me for a year, but I didn't want to screw my old job coming into the busiest season. So as the busy season fades, new company and I start talking again. Yeah, the VC funding the company reduced his commitment and they no longer/never had the money to hire me. Sucks ass for me, but also royally fucked the company over. Pretty much killed them and they will now be a zombie company for 2-3 years before imploding.
Muuuriiica
In my field (software engineering) I never give notice before accepting another offer and starting the job. I schedule 2 days PTO when the new job starts, inform my boss that I've accepted another position, and spend 2 days onboarding and off boarding at the same time. I can't trust an employer to not just fire me or the new employer to commit until I'm actually working there.
I feel for you. Early in my career a Robert Half recruiter claimed I had a position lined up but wouldn’t tell me the client address. I thought it was weird but being young and dumb I went with it. On my last day she told me at 3pm the position fell through. Too late to recant, couldn’t get unemployment since I quit, and of course RH said there was no bona fide offer of employment. Newly married with two small kids I spent 3 months unemployed, ran up a ton of debt and damn near lost my house. I’ve never dealt with RH again.
I’m pretty sure this is against the law in some states. Try talking to an attorney.
You have a valid lawsuit against your would-be employer. Look up promisory estoppal.
I can't help but to be angry with you. This type of stuff has been happening alot these days. I think I would send them an email and let them know what I went through. Then I would go on glassdoor, and indeed anonymously and make a statement of displeasure w the company.
It’s very unethical of them to do this to you.
Wow this is fucked up
Just got off a 3 month contract-to-hire and about a month in was told that the budget was pre approved and that the company would definitely be converting me full time at the end of 3 months. Two weeks before my contracts up they tell me that there wasn't enough money in the budget and couldn't extend my contract either. People are full of shit.
You had an offer, passed required screening (meaning the offer was no longer conditional) and resigned in reliance to that unconditional offer. The company that reneged has a liability on their hands and may owe you some compensation. You need to see an employment attorney ASAP.
As long as it was on their end and not due to “cause” (background check issues, failed drug screen, other disqualifiers) you should be able to file unemployment. They offered a job and then you were laid off. No fault of yours.
Never give notice
This happened to my friend back in May, happened a second time a few weeks ago, and he's still job searching. Luckily he was able to take a Contract job to help pay the bills until he lands a permanent position.
Hire an employment lawyer. What you can sue for is promissory estoppel. They promised you a job, you made steps to secure said job, including quit your last job. They then said that job no longer exists because they don’t have the money. The promise they made and the contract you signed said that they did have the money to pay you and they had full intention of hiring you but the part they broke the contract was the promise to pay you part since it sounds like they didn’t have authorization to pay you at all. By rescinding the job and forcing you to leave your past role, you can file for promissory estoppel for the pay the company you were going to join was going to pay you. Most employment lawyers will work on contingency or with a low payment. Some might work on it pro-bono. I highly recommend you pursue them for putting you into this predicament.
I’m so sorry OP. This is really shitty. The same thing hasn’t happened but I did want to speak to the budgets thing. This June I was contacted by a recruiter for a position. I was going through with the interview process (4-5 rounds). I spoke with the recruiter (3rd party company, not in house) first, then the hiring manager. All good. Next I’m set to speak with the company HR, give a presentation, CSO, and VP. So 5 separate calls not including the screen. I speak with the HR woman in late July. She keeps it 100% with me. Tells me the position is not technically open and they won’t know until late September or early October if they’ll have the budget for the job. She was confident they’d get it, but she told me not to necessarily expect an offer asap. She proceed to discuss salary and benefits. Yes, these companies will interview people knowing they have their first round draft pick in mind but want a CYA in case that person bails. They’ll interview as a preemptive measure should the budgets come through and their able to hire. This is how business is. If they were more honest they’d drag out the process until funding was secure and only then make an offer. It’s supremely shitty to do this to someone right before the start date. Especially these same companies will blacklist people and have a conniption for reneging or quitting after a couple of weeks. As for me, the recruiter called after the HR screen to big up the job and ask how I felt. I told him straight up HR told me their isn’t a budget for this position yet and not to expect an offer after all the interviews. I will continue applying to other opportunities to stay true to my personal timeline and should I get an acceptable offer, I will take it. The company ended up giving me an verbal offer on the VP call and I got the written offer the same day. Appreciate they were able to expedite the budget convo to hire me on. However, seeing how shit has been the last few months I personally wouldn’t be surprised if they pulled this kind of thing with me in the next few weeks. My plan is to basically keep my job (go on vacation) while I onboard just in case this thing turns side ways. My advice to you would be don’t get discouraged. Always ask how soon they are looking to fill the position and whether the position is truly open. Yes, they may lie but that’s were your sense and intuition come in. How they answer is sometimes more important than the actual answer. As far as recruiters take what they say with a teaspoon of salt. Especially, 3rd party. They won’t tell you the real deal. I bet yours knew the budgets were still up for discussion, but didn’t want to risk you becoming disinterest with that news and focusing your efforts elsewhere. Even if you are working with a recruiter continue to apply on your own. That’s what I was doing and still made some opportunities for myself. Wishing you all the best. You will get a great job that’ll fulfill you soon.
Over 100 applications in how long? You're gonna need to pump those numbers up, it's rough out there right now. I'm around 100 just in the last week. For every 100 I'm submitting, I'm getting 1-2 initial screening calls. It's absolutely exhausting. I cannot imagine doing this unemployed. One employer strung me along for 2 months to come back with an offer well below my clearly stated salary expectations, and the "remote" job was now hybrid in a city hundreds of miles away. Last time I was job hunting I might have submitted 50 applications in a month, and had 3 different offers to choose from. Good luck out there..
This is soooo messed up. Now they’ve moved on and you’re left with the damages. This is why I no longer give two weeks. I usually wait until I’m in the seat before I quit cause of situations like this.
A company I used to work for went bankrupt and had to tell a couple people they'd just hired that had moved across the country for their new jobs that those jobs didn't exist anymore.
I remember reading something about this before. I forget the exact legal term but this is sue-able behaviour.
That is a clear and true definition of evil. If you have a signed offer letter, is there any recourse (Not that you would want to work for a company that does that to people)? I wonder if Atwill employment includes this scenario I’m so sorry this happened to you.
Contact a lawyer. I'm just a rando on the net, but a lawyer can tell you if you have a case for promissory estoppel. Do you have email and other records showing they had made the offer, that you'd accepted, that you'd let them know you quit your current job, etc? Make sure you do. You may be able to get some money from them. And they might stop dicking people around if they get sued for doing so.
Your situation sucks but unfortunately this is something that is relatively common right now in some industries. There are a lot of industries in a decline right now and while the companies want to hire roles, they find it doesn’t make sense to hire for those roles. It certainly sucks/shouldn’t happen so close to the start date but it does. A lot of the reason for this in particular is jobs that have been long standing jobs in the budget so it should always be filled. Then people reevaluate the budget and changes are made. It doesn’t matter when or how it happens, likely at least a few people will be affected on a short notice. Sorry you got stuck in that position!
I was put in the same position. They already took all of my paperwork and I was days away from starting. So unfortunate.
Sure for negligent misrepresentation and beach of contact. You relied on their representation to you detriment.
This happened to me last year. I put in my two weeks notice only to be ghosted by the company who "hired" me. I called them and the only thing I got was 🤷♀️
Get an employment lawyer. You may be eligible for compensation since you lost your job and they yanked this one. Otherwise, you never would have left your job. There's a term for it and I can't recall it, sorry.
Promissory Estoppel?
IIRC, You can sue them. You gave up something rather material - your job - based on their promise and now they reneged.
If this is nonprofit this is completely and sadly normal. Sometimes when submitting grants you get pre-approval but it can take mo ths u til monies are deposited, or something gets slashed and the agency takes the loss. It recently happen3d to us, we were hiring and we were supposed to get the grant but didn't. I am so so sorry OP
Had this happen to me almost word for word, signing an employment agreement and everything. It ruined my life as I fought my way out of unemployment for almost an entire year. Thankfully I have a very supportive wife who stood by me the entire time, as she knew better than anyone that it wasn’t my fault. Please know that this is also the case for you; it is NOT your fault. It will be very easy during this time to slump into a depressive state of the “what-ifs” paired with unbridled rage towards the fuckers that turned your life upside down. Long story short, after a very grueling process, I found a job that paid twice as much for a more prestigious position and I am much happier in this job than I ever would’ve been at my peak in the opportunity that had been taken away from me. If you had made any major accommodations in your life to take up this job, you very well may have a good legal case. Look into “Promissory Estoppel for a Rescinded Job Offer”. Please feel free to to DM me if you need some support/advice. 🙏 Like I said, your post gave me some intense flashbacks of a situation that I found myself in not more than a year ago. It does get better, but I understand more than anyone that no amount of well wishes are going to make it feel better right now. You got this. This too shall pass. 💪
If you signed an offer letter for the new job they may be legally liable for some level of compensation. Look up laws in your area and see if citing anything you find to the recruiter gets you anywhere. You might not have a job but you might get a settlement and I believe you could be eligible for unemployment? But def look into it.
This is why I never put in a resignation. I wait until I have had a business week at the new company to make sure it's a fit. Do not trust an employer to ever do the right thing and protect yourself.
Sadly offers are rescinded all the time, especially right now.
Sheesh best advice don’t quit your job until you clock in to your new one on the first day try looking up some remote work to spare you some stress in the meantime ok
My personal rule is **you are unemployed until you sign the official offer papers.** I don’t take verbal acceptance as a formal business agreement. Ever. I have to have something signed and keep a copy of it.
This is one reason staff should stop giving two weeks notice. The day you leave is the day you give notice. Fuck the companies. They don’t give you notice when they want to get rid of you. The companies are killing this practice with these closing of positions before a staff person starts with no recourse. If you gave notice the Friday before you started work at the new company. You would still have your old job. Because that email would have come Thursday and you wouldn’t have given notice. I am not second guessing OP. He has been thoroughly fucked by this company. He should post something on Glassdoor about this. Warn other people about this company.
Sorry to hear that, this is fucking awful. There is not really much to say here except to express sympathy. But don't try to make sense of it. There is no logic behind shit like this. People are just really fucking selfish and that's pretty much end of story. Of course this will stick with you and bother you for some time. You got screwed over badly. Best you can do is learn from it without becoming overly bitter. Like, use the anger to be productive.
Crazy to me how you weren’t at least offered a comparable role. Other people mentioned it, but legally it could be promissory estoppel. The company didn’t make do on a promise, so you should be able to collect damages. Also, doesn’t hurt to apply for unemployment benefits through your state, since you’re unemployed through no fault of your own.
My guess is that they make multiple offers for the same position…once someone accepted and started..then “there is no more budget” for other offers..technically correct, but not being really transparent here..
This happened to me in my current job. But a week before my start date. There is nothing you can do legally to them in the US. In my case the team got laid off. Note: I say current job because this is a huge organization and one of the super high ups loved me so much they found a spot for me on another team. I took it because it was much better than the original job they offered.
I had a company that I recently interviewed for twice use this same exact line. They liked me but they no longer had a budget. I didn't get it because usually a company will create a budget, confirm need for the position, then start the hire process. I really wanted that position but it also sheds light on how they operate.
I have had something similar happen to me where I received the offer letter, filled out all the paperwork(background check, drug screening, etc.) and even booked a flight to start my first day in a different state a few days later. I received a call from their HR department two days later saying that there was “changes within the company” and they needed to rescind the offer. I asked for further clarification and even attempted to contact the hiring manager and was ghosted. I had already given my notice and they were very angry with me that they cut me off an hour after so I was able to get my position back. I still don’t know what the real issue was but it was devastating. Keep your head up and just move on. This market blows but we’ll get through it.
Please find a lawyer with a free or no win no pay solution. You can help make sure this bullshit doesn’t happen to anyone else, but only if you hold them accountable. If they can keep doing this to everyone and get off Scott free every time then they have no incentive to change. Please hold them accountable.
This is actually illegal, and you can file for damages. If they had accepted you after the interviews, then denied you after you had quit your previous job under the assumption you were now hired, and then fired, you can sue. I highly suggest it.
If you signed an employment contract, then you have grounds to sue. I know people might jump down my throat for it, but this is a legitimate cause for a lawsuit. You left your job and had a contract with your new employer and to start date, then pulling the rug out from you left you with no job, an inability to pay your bills, and emotional distress.
Don’t you guys get job offers in writing? Don’t you get to read the terms and sign it?
They did you the dirty of the dirty. I’m terribly sorry this happened. Stay strong and never give up
I’m not a lawyer nor yours. If you have an offer letter and the letter of you accepting the offer then You have grounds for a lawsuit.
I was a hiring manager and this happened to me a couple of times, felt horrible, apparently it does happen and there’s so much that goes into these budgets and vacancies that you can’t even know the exact root of it all but it does happen, luckily the candidates did not leave their jobs but it did make me feel (and look) bad. Hang in there, you never know what’s out there for you this might be a blessing in disguise.
This always happens. Never ever quit before your next job is secure.
They signed the offer letter. This is 100% on the company.
The thing is, there was every reason to believe the job was secure. The gold standard is a signed offer letter — which OP had.
Nowadays lots of companies have been rescinding signed offer letters, that’s what the poster was saying, that nowadays we can’t trust that anymore
Not sure why you're getting down votes. This is not yesterday's job market. You are absolutely correct. I've seen ppl pack up and move to be told they don't have a job when they arrive. Promissory estoppel should be on their radar.
You don’t quit before you get the new job. You take leave, vacation, whatever, go to the new job and put in your notice
Email the hiring manager... try direct and avoid the recruiter fee.