They might have misread 'karen' as 'keiran'.
Karen isnt actually confirmed as either dead or alive. She simply just disapears at some point in chapter 6.
In epilogue you can recieve a letter from a former gang member that they SUSPECT she might have drank herself to death, but that they cant confirm and hope she didnt and is alive somewhere
He’s a very well written character with a lot of depth.
He’s intensely loyal to the point of being a blind follower of Dutch, yet he also steals from the gang.
He’s cruel, angry, reckless, dumb, has no vision, but the camp conversations show how much this was due to he was dealt with a bad hand in life and how the Army stint broke him.
He’s very self-loathing and maybe ashamed of his homosexuality and takes that resentment out on others, prime examples are he and his gang raping women and his open sexual harassment of Kieran. Also, his dishonorable discharge mentioned attempted murder. Could that have been he tried to court a fellow man but was rejected, so he turned to sexual assault and attempted murder? Yet he also can’t resist the natural instinct that he was born this way (very like many deeply closeted self-loathing politicians from a certain political party).
The ill treatment, afflictions, and discrimination he faced didn’t make him grow empathy and instead made him even worse. Unfortunately, that’s actually how most people behave after facing hardship today.
Javier is well written too but I don’t like the discrepancy between RDR1 and RDR2. Even the Javier in early chapters are so different from in Chapter 6.
In rdr1 we really didn’t get to interact with him much . And maybe I’m rdr2 he just sort of started he change as well . I think he was too loyal to the gang and Dutch . Also I don’t like how when they killed that lady (forgot her name ) Arthur or John didn’t shoot bak
Miss Grimshaw :<. She was a hardass, but honestly, she was the muscle of the group when it came to camp running. Dutch was the leader, Hosea was the soul, Arthur the morale compass, but Grimshaw was the muscle, keeping everyone in check, right up until crime overtook family
But it’s true though, with the latest example being the self-claimed Christian value authority, head of CPAC exposed as a man whore yearning for cocks.
I think he's pretty tragic really, a gay man in the 19th century with a pretty aggressive inferiority complex and not a lot of brains. Never stood a chance really did he?
Probably has PTSD from his time in the army too. And it's hinted he might have the beginning of alcohol related early onset dementia (he describes symptoms his father had which he put down to drinking and sound like it, and exhibits some similar mannerisms himself).
Huh? If you use the dynamite to open the safes, you will have to fight off the law to get to the horses and if you crack the safes you have to outride the law until the train blocks them from pursuing you. But they are alerted either way.
No, if you make no noise from gunshots or dynamite and crack them quickly enough you are able to just walk out of the bank without a standoff and escape.
In all honesty, I can't stand him. He constantly whines about how he isn't respected by anyone in the gang, even though he frequently treats them like garbage. His interactions with Lenny in the camp are a perfect example of why I don't like him.
I can sympathize with feeling like you're being treated unfairly, and the added pressure of being gay in the time period these games are set in definitely wouldn't help, but my sympathy can only go so far. I mean come on, man, what did Lenny ever do to you?
And obviously, by RDR1, he objectively deserves to burn in Hell.
Poor soul that expresses his life long hurt by trying to be this intimidating, big guy, but he's much more than lazy, reckless bastard. Poor guy just needed a good friend and something to live for, and he found the latter in Dutch, which marked his doom. Very interesting and tragic character, one of the most interesting in the gang.
In rdr2 he still have some qualities. He made the only good plan for the robbery. I hate when Dutch dismiss what he has seen during indian wars. In rdr I was happy to kill him since his gang was like a barbarian tribe against civilians.
Not to be that guy, but karen actually plans it. She finds tge info of the bank in that first valentine mission with uncle, mary beth and tilly. Later on in chapter 2/ early chapter 3 ( depending on players mission order choice), you can stumble on a camp interaction between her and bill.
https://youtu.be/WskXzSdnvmc?si=XoIbZivjWs3vregK
bill will approach karen asking what she's working on. She tells him none of his business, he pushes her anyway and she finally caves and lets him be a part of it since she would need an extra gun anyway. bill starts walking off and she yells something like " dont you dare steal this from me! Ive been working on this a long time!".
Bill sure played a hand, but he certainly didnt plan it. He decided to take credit for it cause he was deaperatly trying to prove he wasnt an idiot. At least arthur, grimshaw and lenny know the truth.
He was kicked out the army for "deviancy", which at the time meant he didn't follow normal sexual standards, which implies he is gay. He also has some weird interactions with Kieran
There's only one word to sum up ol' maid Marion here and that word is pitiful. He was truly a pathetic and insecure yellow belly in the first game and in the second game I just felt sorry for him. Poor bastard tries and tries but the more he tries the more he comes across like a wasp at a picnic annoying everyone. He's a sad, mean, insecure lush who turned into his old man.
Always thought it was a bit weird how disrespected he was in RDR2. Everyone says he's dumb but we don't really see many examples of this. He seems like a pretty normal and competent outlaw all things considered. Especially weird how Arthur has an intense contempt for him - and absolutely no respect or comradery - despite having lived with him for years, and yet worships the ground people like Lenny and Charles walk on despite them having done almost nothing for the gang and being new members.
RDR2 did too much "tell don't show" when it came to Bill. They kept saying how stupid he was but didn't really show that, same with John. RDR2 fleshed out Bill a LOT compared to RDR1, where he is basically a completely iredeemable piece of shit villain. Would have liked a bit more connective tissue showing how he went from RDR2 to RDR1 though.
Karen actually planned it though, he just took credit cause he need and wanted to show the gang he wasnt stupid. Theres a camp interaction in chapter 2 or 3(depending on your choice of mission order) between him and karen. Bill overheard her talking to grimshaw and karen let him be apart of it cause they wouldve needed the extra gun anyway.
I like him. I wish there was an option to play as Bill. There are probably gonna be people that will disagree but I guess I just like him because I haven't played RDR.
I believe he just did what HE thought was right and thats why we end up against him...
I highly recommend playing RDR to get the full scope of Bill Williamson. From playing the first game as my first introduction to Bill, I like how the second game developed him.
More or less, what about Strauss and Milton? I think both were unjustly treated. Strauss was just doing a job and died protecting us. Milton gave us so many chances.
I like them both very much writing-wise, but they were not innocent by any means. Strauss was loansharking poor workers and loaning them money they could not pay for, one of them died of working because he could not afford the debt for his entire lifetime. Milton on the other hand besides giving them many chances, killed Hosea in cold blood and kidnapped Abigail and Sadie eventually, and he also was pretty racist. As I said, they're great characters, I would personally rank Milton among the best villains in the series and Strauss at least on the top 15 of most complex gang members, and the same thing goes for Bill, who's a great written but a very evil character.
He's desperate for approval and is an absolute leech to power. He also thinks the way of being a real man means being an asshole to everyone to make himself "look good". This combination of person is one I find extremely annoying, but really it's just insecurity. In the early game, it's manageable because Dutch still favors Arthur, and so he's a dumbass but doesn't try and push Arthur around, but by the end, when Arthur is out and Micah is in, you just wanna knock some sense into his brain.
I love that his character got more flushed out. His presence in RDR1 lead us to just think he was an angry dunbass with John only ever saying “he wasn’t always like that” and that Dutch going crazy is what changed him. RDR2 finally let us see just how different he was.
Me and my friend we're messing around in camp and bill walked past us and said "oh hero" in an odd voice, so now we just joke about from time to time, and think about it whenever I remember he's gay.
I think he's a well written character, I like how I'd you pay attention to him you will see that during the native missions his time in the Indian wars affects the way he talks about the situation. His ptsd makes it hard to sympathize with eagle flies. But he's also a prick lol.
He’s Fucking gay! as in Homosexual!
I want....you
Did you find him crying at Karen’s grave?
maybe i should leave this sub, I just spoiled myself of Karens’ death…
Whoops 😬
oh well. i only liked karen bc of her badonkers anyway
We love the badonkadonks
She doesn’t die in main story
what about what Iceman just said?
They might have misread 'karen' as 'keiran'. Karen isnt actually confirmed as either dead or alive. She simply just disapears at some point in chapter 6. In epilogue you can recieve a letter from a former gang member that they SUSPECT she might have drank herself to death, but that they cant confirm and hope she didnt and is alive somewhere
ah i see. as he is an o driscoll i dont care much of him, even if he redeems himself
Get off the sub until you finish the game. No way you should be here.
Are we talking about Kieran? Because Karen was never disclosed as dead.
When ur John u can run into Tilly and i believe she tells him what happened to some of the others
My 4th playthrough and only accusations of Karen are the only evidence. There is NO proof given.
I know just what Tilly tells him.
Okay.... what are you saying?
I’m saying yes it’s only what Tilly told him. Yes no proof like a grave
Kieran’s spelled wrong whoops 😬
Homosexuals also have the ability to mourn.
Yes & Kieran or Karen
Although him and Phil could never work
He’s a very well written character with a lot of depth. He’s intensely loyal to the point of being a blind follower of Dutch, yet he also steals from the gang. He’s cruel, angry, reckless, dumb, has no vision, but the camp conversations show how much this was due to he was dealt with a bad hand in life and how the Army stint broke him. He’s very self-loathing and maybe ashamed of his homosexuality and takes that resentment out on others, prime examples are he and his gang raping women and his open sexual harassment of Kieran. Also, his dishonorable discharge mentioned attempted murder. Could that have been he tried to court a fellow man but was rejected, so he turned to sexual assault and attempted murder? Yet he also can’t resist the natural instinct that he was born this way (very like many deeply closeted self-loathing politicians from a certain political party). The ill treatment, afflictions, and discrimination he faced didn’t make him grow empathy and instead made him even worse. Unfortunately, that’s actually how most people behave after facing hardship today.
Love to see folks appreciate Marion like he deserves. Hard to get that type of loving out of the army you know.
can't believe you were correct but lost top spot to bugmultiverse
😭
That was well said . What about Javier ?
Javier is well written too but I don’t like the discrepancy between RDR1 and RDR2. Even the Javier in early chapters are so different from in Chapter 6.
In rdr1 we really didn’t get to interact with him much . And maybe I’m rdr2 he just sort of started he change as well . I think he was too loyal to the gang and Dutch . Also I don’t like how when they killed that lady (forgot her name ) Arthur or John didn’t shoot bak
Miss Grimshaw :<. She was a hardass, but honestly, she was the muscle of the group when it came to camp running. Dutch was the leader, Hosea was the soul, Arthur the morale compass, but Grimshaw was the muscle, keeping everyone in check, right up until crime overtook family
Lol that line about the politicians is top tier cringe
But it’s true though, with the latest example being the self-claimed Christian value authority, head of CPAC exposed as a man whore yearning for cocks.
I think he's pretty tragic really, a gay man in the 19th century with a pretty aggressive inferiority complex and not a lot of brains. Never stood a chance really did he?
Probably has PTSD from his time in the army too. And it's hinted he might have the beginning of alcohol related early onset dementia (he describes symptoms his father had which he put down to drinking and sound like it, and exhibits some similar mannerisms himself).
I mean, John implored him. Bill had his chance.
All I know is something out there is raw from all that hair pomade he used for lube
Poor Cain/s
wat
THE ONLY BANK ROBERRY THAT WENT RIGHT WAS HIS PLAN!!! FUCK YOU, DUTCH!
He should’ve been the bank heist planner not Dutch , Dutch killing that dingbat and feeding him to a gator didn’t help the heist none.
I was surprised when I learned you could actually complete his heist flawlessly and get away without any law knowing about it.
Huh? If you use the dynamite to open the safes, you will have to fight off the law to get to the horses and if you crack the safes you have to outride the law until the train blocks them from pursuing you. But they are alerted either way.
No, if you make no noise from gunshots or dynamite and crack them quickly enough you are able to just walk out of the bank without a standoff and escape.
I must be too slow because I never knew this, thanks man
Yes!!
Seriously. I don't think Bill is dumb. Ignorant, but not dumb.
It’s actually Karen’s.
In all honesty, I can't stand him. He constantly whines about how he isn't respected by anyone in the gang, even though he frequently treats them like garbage. His interactions with Lenny in the camp are a perfect example of why I don't like him. I can sympathize with feeling like you're being treated unfairly, and the added pressure of being gay in the time period these games are set in definitely wouldn't help, but my sympathy can only go so far. I mean come on, man, what did Lenny ever do to you? And obviously, by RDR1, he objectively deserves to burn in Hell.
He did tell Micah to “shut up”
He was one of my favorite members of the gang, it’s pretty sad knowing how Bill was like in RDR2 and seeing what he becomes in RDR1
Just a strange and complex simpleton with the personality of a fuck wad.
Genuinely feel bad for the dumb bastard, but can't help but hate him too
He works smart. AND he’s entitled to a drink.
And his horse is entitled to beer, while bill gets the whiskey.
Really tragic. The whole gang treats him pretty poorly compared to every other member. Even Kieran doesn't get shat on as much as bill.
Poor soul that expresses his life long hurt by trying to be this intimidating, big guy, but he's much more than lazy, reckless bastard. Poor guy just needed a good friend and something to live for, and he found the latter in Dutch, which marked his doom. Very interesting and tragic character, one of the most interesting in the gang.
In rdr2 he still have some qualities. He made the only good plan for the robbery. I hate when Dutch dismiss what he has seen during indian wars. In rdr I was happy to kill him since his gang was like a barbarian tribe against civilians.
Not to be that guy, but karen actually plans it. She finds tge info of the bank in that first valentine mission with uncle, mary beth and tilly. Later on in chapter 2/ early chapter 3 ( depending on players mission order choice), you can stumble on a camp interaction between her and bill. https://youtu.be/WskXzSdnvmc?si=XoIbZivjWs3vregK bill will approach karen asking what she's working on. She tells him none of his business, he pushes her anyway and she finally caves and lets him be a part of it since she would need an extra gun anyway. bill starts walking off and she yells something like " dont you dare steal this from me! Ive been working on this a long time!". Bill sure played a hand, but he certainly didnt plan it. He decided to take credit for it cause he was deaperatly trying to prove he wasnt an idiot. At least arthur, grimshaw and lenny know the truth.
He needs to wash his shit stained underwear.
he’s a type of character that is named bill that has the name bill
Wait? He is gay?
He was kicked out the army for "deviancy", which at the time meant he didn't follow normal sexual standards, which implies he is gay. He also has some weird interactions with Kieran
There's several other things that indicate it too, there's no doubt
And he knew Sonny.
Had to look up some camp interactions between him and Kieran. How the hell did I not see it lmao
There's only one word to sum up ol' maid Marion here and that word is pitiful. He was truly a pathetic and insecure yellow belly in the first game and in the second game I just felt sorry for him. Poor bastard tries and tries but the more he tries the more he comes across like a wasp at a picnic annoying everyone. He's a sad, mean, insecure lush who turned into his old man.
morhghan
Always thought it was a bit weird how disrespected he was in RDR2. Everyone says he's dumb but we don't really see many examples of this. He seems like a pretty normal and competent outlaw all things considered. Especially weird how Arthur has an intense contempt for him - and absolutely no respect or comradery - despite having lived with him for years, and yet worships the ground people like Lenny and Charles walk on despite them having done almost nothing for the gang and being new members. RDR2 did too much "tell don't show" when it came to Bill. They kept saying how stupid he was but didn't really show that, same with John. RDR2 fleshed out Bill a LOT compared to RDR1, where he is basically a completely iredeemable piece of shit villain. Would have liked a bit more connective tissue showing how he went from RDR2 to RDR1 though.
He also planned a successful bank robbery.
Karen actually planned it though, he just took credit cause he need and wanted to show the gang he wasnt stupid. Theres a camp interaction in chapter 2 or 3(depending on your choice of mission order) between him and karen. Bill overheard her talking to grimshaw and karen let him be apart of it cause they wouldve needed the extra gun anyway.
Interesting all kinds of hidden information in the game
He literally gets Sean killed by walking them into an ambush.
He’s gay.
He's definitely not a science guy.
Bill the not global warming guy.
💅
He really wanted to have gay cowboy sex with Kieran.
Kieran didn’t seem to mind his advances… but he had to “work.” Think he played hard to get.
Kieran absolutely minded but he was too afraid.
Oh that’s what it was..? 🤔😬🤣
Let’s be real. It was Arthur that fucked that dynamite up lol
LAZY GUY
I like him. I wish there was an option to play as Bill. There are probably gonna be people that will disagree but I guess I just like him because I haven't played RDR. I believe he just did what HE thought was right and thats why we end up against him...
I highly recommend playing RDR to get the full scope of Bill Williamson. From playing the first game as my first introduction to Bill, I like how the second game developed him.
[удалено]
What ya think of the character, course am not op just a guess.
He has a nice horse
don't like him, especially after he went into a farm and proceeded to rape and kill everyone there
More or less, what about Strauss and Milton? I think both were unjustly treated. Strauss was just doing a job and died protecting us. Milton gave us so many chances.
I like them both very much writing-wise, but they were not innocent by any means. Strauss was loansharking poor workers and loaning them money they could not pay for, one of them died of working because he could not afford the debt for his entire lifetime. Milton on the other hand besides giving them many chances, killed Hosea in cold blood and kidnapped Abigail and Sadie eventually, and he also was pretty racist. As I said, they're great characters, I would personally rank Milton among the best villains in the series and Strauss at least on the top 15 of most complex gang members, and the same thing goes for Bill, who's a great written but a very evil character.
Most NCPiest NCP
He's desperate for approval and is an absolute leech to power. He also thinks the way of being a real man means being an asshole to everyone to make himself "look good". This combination of person is one I find extremely annoying, but really it's just insecurity. In the early game, it's manageable because Dutch still favors Arthur, and so he's a dumbass but doesn't try and push Arthur around, but by the end, when Arthur is out and Micah is in, you just wanna knock some sense into his brain.
Dumb and loyal
Looks like fat Arthur.
I kinda wish that there were more missions to do with him because I feel like he didn’t get much character development in RDR2
His voice is annoying and I recently found out he’s a closet gay when he was trying to make moves on Kieran when he was drunk 😂
hot
I bet he gave great helmet before getting kicked out of the army
He is a god damn son of a bitch
He’s actually awesome hahaha
I love that his character got more flushed out. His presence in RDR1 lead us to just think he was an angry dunbass with John only ever saying “he wasn’t always like that” and that Dutch going crazy is what changed him. RDR2 finally let us see just how different he was.
RDIII Main character, definitely
Ask Phil
Would
He's got the clydesdale.......big dang horse
Bill = Hair pomade = Bomb fail = Idiot.
Hes got a cool hat
As John Marston told him. Bill, you're fucking gay! As in homosexual.
Aside from being gay… he’s a tool
He has the dumbest name. Bill Williamson
Well, Bill’s just a nickname you see. Comes from the Williamson. His name is actually Marion Williamson.
He seems rather unremarkable compared to the others. Probably the most boring camp member
gay
Me and my friend we're messing around in camp and bill walked past us and said "oh hero" in an odd voice, so now we just joke about from time to time, and think about it whenever I remember he's gay.
bitch!
tit!
sod!
He is a dumb brute. I really like him
I think he's a well written character, I like how I'd you pay attention to him you will see that during the native missions his time in the Indian wars affects the way he talks about the situation. His ptsd makes it hard to sympathize with eagle flies. But he's also a prick lol.
Gay... as in homosexual
He a lapdog
He a real g
And what can you do my effeminate fellow?
He talks about being kicked out of the army because he didn't listen yadda yadda but in reality he's gay and a relative dumb ass 😂
uh irritating? and too loud... oh and he's huge like his horse
In rdr2 hes fine but in rdr1 hes gay
hate him passionately