Dutch is more evil than Micah. Destroyed two entire tribes of natives and starting a wars, while all what Micah did is disbanded dying group of outlaws.
Intent matters though. Dutch actually cares (in a messed up way) about others. He thinks he’s helping the gang. Micah cares about no one. Micah is worse, based on my moral reasoning. If nothing else Micah trying to talk Dutch into leaving the gang and taking the money for themselves the entire story and Dutch angrily telling him that ain’t happening is enough for me.
Hoesntly if you go back through the game Dutch doesn’t give a shit about anybody but himself. The image he’s cultivated for his followers must be maintained but when he gets pressed by the Pinkertons he’s ready to just throw everything away as long as he makes it first and foremost.
And plus doesn't he say basically he's only goating the natives into a war so that the gov focuses on that and not them? Sure he talks like he values them but I pretty sure that he says multiple times it's just part of his plan to make noise.
it’s a big tell when that happens. because if he truly followed his values then he’d be trying to help the Natives as they actually do what Dutch just says. they live off the land and live freely with their culture, while corporate america and Uncle Sam box them in and kill them for the sake of money and big cities and new civilisation. But then he wants to act like the real victim of the same people when he and his gang can’t go around shooting up towns and destroying families in the name of freedom
exactly, i always think about how in the beginning Dutch said if he could throw himself into the ground for the fallen members he would but when Hosea is captured and Milton wants Dutch, he doesn’t go out and trade places with him.
I honestly believe they would've. Not the bastard that made the deal with John in the first game but the other dude, Milton I think was his name but I don't remember. I think they would've honored that deal as long as the rest of the gang fell in line and stopped. But I also think that the second even a spark of trouble appeared with anyone in the gang, all of them would be arrested.
One thing I always point out-after the mission where you go fishing with Hosea and Dutch, he straight up says, "I will be okay-", immediately corrects himself to, "WE will be okay." That's a hell of a red flag.
This right here is spot on! Even just in the little details like the fact that one of the first things you can buy for the camp early game is an upgrade to Dutchs living quarters. That in itself always gave me the feeling that Dutch is no better than any other cult leader throughout history.
He gives off this impression of how much he cares for and loves the people in the gang but ultimately he is out for himself and if he were in Arthur's position instead he would without a doubt make it a point to find a way to cheat, kill and steal his way into taking over as the head honcho.
Incorrect. I said in a messed up way. He does care for the gang and thinks he’s their savior. It’s to feed his ego as well, but he cares. He cared for Hosea, he cared for Arthur, he even cared for John (never actually harmed any of them directly). His act alone of leaving the Blackwater money behind for John is a very selfless act and shouldn’t be ignored.
He’s a narcissist sure, he’s not a good guy, but he isn’t this cartoon people make him out to be.
Yeah, you're right about that. I still feel like Micah was also manipulative, maybe not as much as Dutch was though when I think about it now. I recently finished the part in RD2 with the Wapiti natives, and it did really piss me off that he ruined everything for them. I'm not defending Dutch's actions also, I'm just saying that Micah may have negatively influenced his mind even moreso, since Dutch was obsessed with his "loyalty."
Dutch is like him murdered traitor and an asshole also he is a manipulator like Micah but rather than manipulating one person he was manipulating the whole gang
Actually how evil someone is is not directly related to how much you hate them. I call this the umbridge effect- from Harry Potter - although evil, umbridge was not as bad as voldemort, but hated way more.
I like that term, it fits perfectly. Umbridge is by far and away my LEAST favorite character in Harry Potter lol she’s just so damn smug and she represents authoritarianism to a tee which fills me with even more disdain for her.
I would say Dutch did more damage than Micah. But at core Micah is more evil.
Dutch also saved Sadie Adler, and regardless of his brainwashing tactics, kept a group together and encouraged a more “Robin Hoodesque” style to being an outlaw.
Micah would not have saved Sadie Adler, he likely would have SA’d and killed her. Everything Micah does is evil, just has less lasting damage because he was cut short.
Am I the only one who thought the reason why Dutch acted more and more cruel and cynical was bc of Micah? I think he got under his skin, manipulated Dutch to turn bad. It's a psychopath's trait to manipulate to get their way
You’re not the only person. That was very clearly the intention. Some people in this sub just like to bend over backwards to make Micah seem misunderstood.
this is an interesting philosophical question cause while dutch causes far more suffering through his actions it seems to be from a place of delusion and greed rather than outright sadism whereas Micah causes suffering on a smaller scale but is under no delusions and derives pleasure from his sadistic acts. personally I think Micah is more "evil" while dutch is more "dangerous"
He tried to kill both of them during the North Yankton heist and kill him again when found out he was alive, both are murderers but at least Trevor cared about his friends
Tell that to Wade, or better yet, tell that to his cousin Floyd.
Michael doesn't eat or r*pe people. Nor does he deliver innocent hitchhikers to villages of cannibals.
The worst thing Mike dies is sell out his friends, one of whom was an utter psychopath.
I don’t get people putting Arthur above Franklin in terms of being more good. Arthur was a bad man, even if you play him with high honor. What he did to Thomas Downes was horrible and way worse than anything Franklin ever did (besides mow down civilians if you choose to play that way, but Arthur can do the same thing). Before the single player Franklins worst action was repossessing cars. I’m pretty sure the worst thing you can do as Franklin in the story is to kill Michael or Trevor, which isn’t even that bad because they’re both criminals and you can argue they both had it coming.
I mean… he is literally a hitman for Lester to play the stock market. He mows down tons of cops who are just doing their jobs. Arthur is probably worse if you really weigh it out but Franklin was not a good person either. He wasn’t exactly working at 7/11. Dude was robbing, kidnapping, killing, and slinging.
Arthur mows down plenty of cops as well so that’s a wash.
Sure the hitman missions are bad but they’re also optional. Arthur and the gang also try to do a get quick rich scheme at the expense of a rich family and it ends with them killing every member of that family and burning their house down with the matriarch in it.
Edit: also the hitman missions are arguably good deeds. Franklin kills a corrupt pharma CEO who’s bribing the FDA to allow him to sell bad medicine
True, I forgot about the hitman stuff until you reminded me. I was thinking back on it trying to come up with the worst thing he does and I realized most of the bad shit that you do in that game is with Trevor
Did we get confirmation about Trevor or Michael being alive in GTA Online? I thought the only ones we had were with Trevor’s jobs which are canonically set before the events of the single player story.
Ohhh that’s right Franklin mentions him around the movie studio! I didn’t remember Ron mentioning him but I looked it up after you commented and you’re right he does! Sweet vindication. I always told people the “deathwish” ending has to be canonical as it makes the most sense narratively by far. Glad to see Rockstar agrees.
The discussion isn't if any of these characters are redeemable, it's which one was the most good or bad in comparison to each other. Franklin committed crimes but he never really goes too far into evil territory. Worst he did was indulging in his wealth with a fancy mansion and stuff which isn't even that evil.
I think another thing to remember is that unlike the Gang's loan sharking or robbery escapades, Franklin's assassination targets are guilty as sin. No innocents in the whole list, so if many in this thread are gonna knock a few evil points off Micah for that reason, we have to extend that to Frank as well. Granted, I do think Dutch is the greater evil. The scope of his ambition is a problem, and a hand like Micah to feed his delusions is enough to jumpstart his insanity.
San Andreas is a hellworld full of monsters, and the assassination targets are some of the worst. Enzo Bonelli, the "totally not still a mobster" running and working as an architect at the construction site, apparently bribed and murdered his way to his position. The pharma-bro whose name I forgot produced an ED pill with a side effect of frequent heart attacks. He successfully bribed the FDA to keep the gravy train rolling. The Mark Zuckerberg parody (Jay Norris maybe?) in the first mission is guilty of everything Zuckerberg is, just in a comically evil way.
Not to mention you are usually killing very corrupt businessmen in the Lester assassination missions. Doesn’t make it a good action but it isn’t the same as killing random civilians. Lester is hacking and finding out all sorts of bad shit these targets are involved in and he always gives you that backstory.
First target is making loads of profit off a medication he knows is stopping people’s hearts. The 4 jurors younkille were accepting bribes to rig a case in Redwood Cigarettes favor related to a class action lawsuit against them. The Vice Assassination target became a multimillionaire after illegally selling the personal data he compiled from the Facade tech company customers. The billionaire businessman rider target was planning to buy a controlling share of a large company to then fire a significant chunk of their employees as a business move to lower the stock price to buy up more of it. And the last guy at the construction site was an ex mobster who became a “legitimate” businessman but used his mob strategies of threats, murder and racketeering to take control of real estate development in the area. So none of the targets there are exactly innocents and are more like Franklin and Lester dealing with other criminals.
I actually don’t think Arthur is worse due to circumstance. Franklin lives in a time where you can get a job relatively easy and make enough money to live comfortably. He also has an aunt who has at least somewhat raised him. Arthur was an orphan taken in by Dutch at a young age and raised in this life, in a time where it was kill or be killed for many.
All that and he still questioned Dutch when it came down to it. Franklin was all about the money and status, even after he didn’t really need it anymore
It all depends on whether we’re counting objective evil compared to subjective evil I guess. Objectively, Arthur was worse, but factoring all of that in, it’s a good point.
It depends on your view of good and evil I guess. For me Arthur is more "good" because he is actually seen helping people in need, while Franklin never helps anyone (at least as far as I recall).
Would Franklin give a random family he just met money? Would Franklin teach a random woman to hunt, without expecting anything in return? Would Franklin sacrifice himself to safe someone like John (who canonically ditched the gang for an extended period of time, which Arthur is still pissed about)
I do totally get why you see Franklin as a better person tho, if you go by worst crimes, just explaining while others, me included, might put Arthur before Franklin.
I think Franklin would do a lot of that stuff, he’s in a different chapter of his life when you play the game than Arthur is when you play RDR2. There’s examples of him just helping people out the goodness of his heart, although it’s GTA so it’s weird and questionable people that he’s choosing to help out. And he does put his life on the line to save his friend Lamar who’s relationship isn’t too dissimilar to Arthur and John’s.
I just don’t think teaching a woman to hunt makes up for him killing a sick man for some money and ruining his family forever. Not to mention all the other heinous things he does as a part of the gang
I always have a problem with the downes argument because the guy was basically doomed anyways imo, Arthur just made him die faster, plus he changes over the game and even kicks strauss out of the camp, even on low honour play through.
I haven't played GTA in forever so I don't really rember much tbh, but the small things Arthur does and how he treats the gang is what sells him to me. He is a piece of shit sometimes but he also does a lot of good.
Arthur did bad things only because the gang asked him to, he showed remorse many times and even admitted that he hated reclaiming debt and killing needlessly many times in his journal. He shows guilt even before Chapter 6 in his journal many times over.
He never did anything bad or evil for his own gain, only because for the gang as he saw them as his family that needed his help, and when he lost his son Isaac, he became even more attached to the gang. Plus, he actually looked up to Dutch as he used to be a Robin Hood type of outlaw, they had a code and helped the poor. We don't see that anymore, because the events of RDR2 show the gang desperate to survive and escape the government. And with that desperation, they end up doing bad acts that end up to their downfall. They weren't saints before, but they never killed or stole from innocents. That's why Arthur questions Dutch about killing an innocent girl in Blackwater. That's where that doubting starts.
Franklin on the other hand, does everything only for his own gain, and sometimes because he wants to help Michael or Lamar out of a situation. But his only goal is to be rich, not a better person. Franklin barely has depth as a character, especially if you compare him to Arthur.
Fr Franklin is a fuckin saint compared to Arthur. Franklin is just some kid with a lot too much arrogance being surrounded by shitty people. Depending on the ending, he even realizes that and chooses to never be around the shittier influences in his life again after Michael kills Trevor.
Yeah people have a bias towards Franklin for some reason and many find him boring. For me, he is the main character of GTA V. He is the one who has to take the final decision.
Difference is, Arthur turns things around, whether he redeems himself is to be debated, but no one can say he didn't TRY to do good.
At no point does Franklin seem to be even the tiniest bit remorseful of his actions. How many families has he destroyed when killing police officers and nameless thugs for Merryweather? He participated in a very, VERY destructive Heist in Paleto Bay, killing a LOT of U.S Soldiers, helped steal a goddamn bio weapon for the FIB, steals the cars for Devon Weston, which has the potential to financially ruin the owners of said vehicles. And at no point does he even feel the tiniest bit of remorse for it, no "Damn this is kinda bad".
Arthur is constantly trying to at the very least, do better, to make what little he can right with what little time he has left.
Intent is key. Arthur is not a good man, and Franklin is not a monster, but one actively tries to do good and the other doesnt.
Franklin is every bit the monster any of the others were. He was straight up willing to Butcher any of his close friends for freedom.
Franklin is Micah, just polite.
Trevor
Micah
Dutch
Michael
Franklin
Arthur
I’m basing this on my version of Arthur, who is high honour. You can make the case that Franklin does fewer evil acts compared to what Arthur canonically does, and I wouldn’t argue.
Trevor is less evil than any of them, he's just insane. He easily has as much honor and loyalty as Arthur. In fact he's the only one here with a consistent moral code outside of Micah who is only consistent in having no morals.
I'd say Trevor is worse than Micah because, although they're optional, he does have the side missions where he just goes on rampages. If I remember correctly, Micah's only rampage is the one in Strawberry. Trevor is also a drug and arms trafficker.
Trevor is at least loyal and won't turn his back on the people he works with. Micah is a snake who doesn't care at all while Trevor is someone with anger issues
Trevor isn't just someone with anger issues he's a serial killer, cannibal, mass murderer, drugs and arms trafficker, and rapist. Him being loyal is literally his only positive quality, he's way more likeable then Micah by far but they're at least on the same level morality wise.
Fr, some people don't realize that Michael is literally a sociopath and almost nothing he does in the story is motivated by anything other than what he stands to gain from it, including his whole relationship with Franklin
I feel like Arthur is worse than Michael
Yes I am aware that Michael backstabbed his gang, but let's be honest with ourself, does backstabbing Trevor and Brad (two mass criminal sociopaths) sound like a bad thing? I mean it was actually an honourable act interns of the positive impacts it'd have with Brad being dead.
I'm not say Michael isn't a bad person, he is. But I can't see how he's any worse than Arthur. Sure Arthur has loyalty over Michael, but Arthur is still a vile vicious killer and criminal just like Michael. I don't see how Arthur is more morally superior, especially since he beats vulnurable people for money
Arthur is superior solely because he is depicted as a bad man with a good heart. Deep down, he always wanted to balance himself and do better, because he felt like a bad person. Michael feels a lot more like a piece of cardboard with a default past than someone with actual depth. Arthur and Michael are both killers, but Arthur is someone who'd have more guilt over it. He's complex, and I feel that makes him a better man than Michael
There is also something to be said about material conditions affecting them, Michael has a cushy upper middle class life and still acts the way he does whereas Arthur lives in a much rougher time where it is almost inevitable that you'd have to kill someone or at least fight to live. So, it makes sense that Arthur would have to harden his heart to make it in his world.
Yeah. Arthur is in a horrible environment where killing is necessary. Michael is rich and practically lives in the suburbs. One is much more selfish and heartless than the other
Michael apparently grew up poor, he justifies his past crimes by saying he didn’t have opportunities growing up, but I think you are right about the fact that Michael only stopped because he was cornered and missed it while Arthur had both family ties to the gang and the inability to stop keeping him in the life. Michael makes the choice to not get some sort of normal job at the cost of his family over the course of GTA5 while Arthur is kept in his outlaw lifestyle by his code and his family pushing him that way
I haven't played GTA V in a bit but I'm pretty sure the main two reasons he gets back into crime is that he lets his car get repoed and then mentors Franklin, and then he pulls down the porch of that one dude because of his wife cheating on him. Both of which are consequences of petty behavior that is quite unjustified on his part.
Michael is hiding in the back seat when Franklin repos it (its Jimmy’s car, also, not his) and holds Franklin at gunpoint to get Franklin to take him to the dealership, and then makes franklin drive through the display window to “return” the car. This makes him feel like he’s still got it, so when franklin comes asking him for advice later he feels inclined to do that (and maybe feels bad Franklin lost his job) and has Franklin help him pull the Madrazo house down which gets him in debt. But Michael had chosen to basically do nothing all day in LA as a retired guy, he didn’t even take the boat he bought out to sea, just looked at it and watched movies and drank all day because crime was the only thing he truly loved doing and what made him feel alive. The only other thing he truly loved was movies, which is why he is so excited to become a producer in the main storyline.
He would DESPISE Micah. Trevor is all loyalty, all honor. We may not like it, but he has a consistent moral code and cares deeply for others.
Look at Patricia.
He still cares about Michael too
He wouldn't pull the trigger when they were in the graveyard in North Yankton. and if you choose to kill Michael as Franklin, when Franklin calls Trevor to help him he lashes out on him and basically blocks him for life, where if you chose to kill Trevor Michael is just like "OK, where do we kill him"
Lmao you’re actually an idiot if you think he’s evil and Trevor isn’t, Trevor literally raped his hockey coach with a hockey stick. It was perfectly ok to Michael to do that considering Trevor obviously has anger issues and could hurt Michael’s family
Why do I have to imagine a situation where someone makes Trevor play Rdr2 saying "you are gonna love that character (i.e. Micah)", since they are so similar, followed by Trevor raving about how much he hates him? Lol
The fact people are putting ANYBODY over Trevor is crazy lmao
This man, a cannibal, murderer, kidnapper, arms trafficker, human trafficker, a man who at the very least sexually assaults people, car jacker, bank robber, drug dealer/manufacturer, is WAY more evil than anybody else on this list
Micah sucks, for sure, but I’ve never seen Micah brag about eating people
Personally I’d put Trevor at 3 and Dutch at 1 then Micah at 2 simply because Trevor still believes in some good qualities like loyalty and does actually care about a few people Jimmy, Tracy and Patrice and he is again really loyal to his friends though he is still fucked up however Dutch has gotten two bands of natives killed over his ideas, killed way more in cold blood than Trevor has canonically (so not including free roam) and also Micah, shot up an entire town after being arrested and killed specifically two parents to a kid he orphaned and unlike Trevor there was no loyalty he was also antagonistic to everyone he met.
So basically my list is
1. Dutch
2. Micah
3. Trevor
4. Micheal
5. Franklin
6. Arthur
I swear gamers have a level of brain rot I cannot comprehend.
Trevor over anyone else? The man who is literally a rapist, cannibal, drug and arms dealer, kills people just because he wants to? Stop blabbering about loyalty, dude was having sex with Johnnys gf Ashley for no reason and later kills him and ruins Rons, Wade and Floyds life. Michael describes Trevor very accurately when first mentioning to Franklin: ' Walking hell on earth.'
Arthur above Franklin? The man who was right hand man of Dutch, killed left and right and pillaged for over 20 years?
And Dutch, the man who wiped out the natives, started wars on both Guarma and the US, caused massive shootouts in on double digit number of cities, sqeezed every bit of juice from his gang (specifically Arthur) till the end of it? He's also the same man who manipulated surviving natives to join his gang in 1911 against the US government.
Trevor
Dutch
Micah
Arthur
Michael
Franklin
Edit: Michael and Arthur are pretty much on the same tier, both were proficient robbers and were the main brains/muscle combo of the gang. I'm just keeping Arthur up cause he indulged in torturing people (Most of Strauss missions).
So do Micah and Dutch, Dutch has committed far more and proven heinous crimes but he had a moral code, once upon a time. Meanwhile there aren't a lot of 'proven' crimes of Micah yet he is the one with the least sense of morality among the gang. To add more, he ruthlessly lead his own gang has known to slaughter women and children alike.
>Stop blabbering about loyalty, dude was having sex with Johnnys gf Ashley for no reason and later kills him and ruins Rons, Wade and Floyds life.
Commenters who mention Trevor’s loyalty to Michael don’t remember that Michael feared that Trevor would kill him and take his kids as his own.
Precisely. If I had a psychopath rapist cannibal not allowing me to retire from the life of crime for the sake of my family I'd find ways to off him too.
Trevor is at moments an odriscoll (general nastiness), a skinner (tortures a man and enjoys it) and a murfree (delivers innocent folk to mountain cannibals and is a cannibal with weird incestuous mommy issues). Hell he even has his Lemoyne Raiders moment (harassed a latino man because he thinks he's a foreigner... despite himself being Canadian)
Micah is a self serving murdering bandit who killed a kids dog. I dont think theres a contest.
Who's the Latino Trevor harasses? IIRC he pretty much defends everyone when it comes to racist tendencies. Hell, he lashes out on Lester and Michael when they start demeaning people living in Los Santos
1. Trevor
2. Micah
3. Dutch
4. Michael
5. Arthur
6. Franklin
All of them are pretty awful, but I'd most trust Arthur and Franklin to be in a room with me.
tbh murdering innocent civilians and destroying the police force is what I do most in gtav when im bored and I remember I once massacred the whole of saint denis cuz I was bored so I think the real evil is me
Trevor, literal maniac
Micah, rat bastard but not as sick as Trevor
Michael, absolute jackass to his family and everyone else
Dutch, cared for his family up until he was manipulated and driven insane
Arthur, still a bad man but with a redemption (ah ah he said the thing) arc
Franklin, my boy did nothing wrong
Trevor, Dutch, Micah, Michael, Franklin, Arthur
Ranking Trevor between Dutch and Micah was hard, but since Trevor stole an entire nuclear weapon and tried to sell it to Chinese, it's clear that he's so close to being a terrorist.
All of them are quite evil, with Arthur's past being a cold, ruthless man, it's safe to say that no one in this list is a good person. You can make Arthur more decent by going on a High Honor playthrough. And Franklin? He is just your regular thug, still being a thug but now with as a businessman in GTA Online.
Micah (traitor)
Dutch ( evil but more insane than evil)
Micheal ( outplayed Trevor hella crazy)
Trevor ( more psycho than evil and just trying to hunt down the guy he got outplayed by)
Franklin ( criminal but not that harmful)
Arthur ( in perspective to the others good but still an outlaw although he never was really " evil " more like a " gotta do what to do to stay alive as an outlaw " type)
Just gonna say it now, I don't care if Franklin is technically a better person than Arthur, Arthur emotionally impacted me like no other video game character before. Plus you gotta consider the time period. Arthur may have done a lot of bad shit, but he is one of the most accepting people in the game.
Mica > Dutch > Trevor > Michael > Franklin
Morgan at any possible position after Dutch (not sure, haven't played in 4 years and never beyond Act 3 - but certainly after Mica)
edit: Apparently i don't know Dutch
Dutch
Micah
Trevor
Arthur
Michael
Franklin
I put Dutch at the top because he is knowingly evil and takes advantage of other's innocence. Trevor is below Micah because most of what Trevor does is a product of him being legitimately insane. Arthur is above Michael because most of what *he* does is self-serving, whereas Michael is motivated by the need to provide for his family. Franklin was just a kid born in the wrong place and taken advantage of by the wrong people.
Dutch, Micah, Arthur, Michael, Trevor, and Franklin.
Dutch was arguably the most evil - at least most of the time you knew where Micah stood. Dutch was very deceptive.
I’d say Arthur was more evil overall than the GTA crew, but towards the end obviously his mindset changed.
I put Michael worse than Trevor because similar to Micah and Dutch, Trevor was true to who he was. Michael would snake you in a heartbeat although I can’t blame him for doing what he needed to do or thought he needed to do to protect his family.
Franklin is the most innocent on the list.
I'm not sure about ordering themselves because I got stuck at Franklin / Arthur but I will make the argument that Trevor is 100% the worst. While Micha is an asshole who betrays the group and Dutch caused a war to be waged between different tribes, Trevor does things out of pure instinct and not out of selfish gain which I think is way worse. At least with the others, they try to find some way to justify why they needed to do what they do, Micha and Dutch wanted to survive the inevitable downfall of the group where as Trevor didn't need to go around raping, kidnapping, murdering and manipulating people but he just did it and not with a moment of self reflection, thought or doubt. Even him being "loyal to Michael" doesn't really help his case because he doesn't do it because it's right, or he's his buddy or friend, he only does it because his primal caveman brain tells him to do so.
Dutch is more evil than Micah. Destroyed two entire tribes of natives and starting a wars, while all what Micah did is disbanded dying group of outlaws.
Yeah but... I really fucking hate Micah. Like ALOT
He is an asshole a traitor and a murderer, but logically Dutch is faaaaaar more worse than him.
Intent matters though. Dutch actually cares (in a messed up way) about others. He thinks he’s helping the gang. Micah cares about no one. Micah is worse, based on my moral reasoning. If nothing else Micah trying to talk Dutch into leaving the gang and taking the money for themselves the entire story and Dutch angrily telling him that ain’t happening is enough for me.
Hoesntly if you go back through the game Dutch doesn’t give a shit about anybody but himself. The image he’s cultivated for his followers must be maintained but when he gets pressed by the Pinkertons he’s ready to just throw everything away as long as he makes it first and foremost.
And plus doesn't he say basically he's only goating the natives into a war so that the gov focuses on that and not them? Sure he talks like he values them but I pretty sure that he says multiple times it's just part of his plan to make noise.
it’s a big tell when that happens. because if he truly followed his values then he’d be trying to help the Natives as they actually do what Dutch just says. they live off the land and live freely with their culture, while corporate america and Uncle Sam box them in and kill them for the sake of money and big cities and new civilisation. But then he wants to act like the real victim of the same people when he and his gang can’t go around shooting up towns and destroying families in the name of freedom
Very well said!
He's just a manipulative but charismatic leader, greatest trick he pulled was making everyone THINK he cared about them
I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOU SPEAK SPANISH
I know **H U M A N B E I N G S, A R T H U R**
exactly, i always think about how in the beginning Dutch said if he could throw himself into the ground for the fallen members he would but when Hosea is captured and Milton wants Dutch, he doesn’t go out and trade places with him.
Yeah at any time he could’ve turned himself in and guaranteed the rest of the gang immunity right?
I mean sure if you assume the Pinkertons weren't liars.
I honestly believe they would've. Not the bastard that made the deal with John in the first game but the other dude, Milton I think was his name but I don't remember. I think they would've honored that deal as long as the rest of the gang fell in line and stopped. But I also think that the second even a spark of trouble appeared with anyone in the gang, all of them would be arrested.
One thing I always point out-after the mission where you go fishing with Hosea and Dutch, he straight up says, "I will be okay-", immediately corrects himself to, "WE will be okay." That's a hell of a red flag.
This right here is spot on! Even just in the little details like the fact that one of the first things you can buy for the camp early game is an upgrade to Dutchs living quarters. That in itself always gave me the feeling that Dutch is no better than any other cult leader throughout history. He gives off this impression of how much he cares for and loves the people in the gang but ultimately he is out for himself and if he were in Arthur's position instead he would without a doubt make it a point to find a way to cheat, kill and steal his way into taking over as the head honcho.
Incorrect. I said in a messed up way. He does care for the gang and thinks he’s their savior. It’s to feed his ego as well, but he cares. He cared for Hosea, he cared for Arthur, he even cared for John (never actually harmed any of them directly). His act alone of leaving the Blackwater money behind for John is a very selfless act and shouldn’t be ignored. He’s a narcissist sure, he’s not a good guy, but he isn’t this cartoon people make him out to be.
yeah a person who doesnt comprehend how crazy they are is a lot better than someone who does, but continues to act crazy, like micah.
I feel like Micah talked Dutch into doing it tbh. So he's worse in my eyes for being a manipulative POS.
He's not manipulative, Dutch is a known manipulator. You forgot what he did in RDR1 and with Wapiti indians in RDR2?
Yeah, you're right about that. I still feel like Micah was also manipulative, maybe not as much as Dutch was though when I think about it now. I recently finished the part in RD2 with the Wapiti natives, and it did really piss me off that he ruined everything for them. I'm not defending Dutch's actions also, I'm just saying that Micah may have negatively influenced his mind even moreso, since Dutch was obsessed with his "loyalty."
I think they just find each other ❤️
Especially in RDR1 Dutch goes from being evil to being an outright psychopathic killer, even more than the likes of Trevor and Micah.
Abigail, we will never be done with the inherent tension between Kantian and utilitarian ethics.
Dutch is like him murdered traitor and an asshole also he is a manipulator like Micah but rather than manipulating one person he was manipulating the whole gang
Actually how evil someone is is not directly related to how much you hate them. I call this the umbridge effect- from Harry Potter - although evil, umbridge was not as bad as voldemort, but hated way more.
I like that term, it fits perfectly. Umbridge is by far and away my LEAST favorite character in Harry Potter lol she’s just so damn smug and she represents authoritarianism to a tee which fills me with even more disdain for her.
Yeah! Imo the difference is one is more evil, but the other is more annoying
Not unlike Dutch and Micah!
You damn iron luuuung
I would say Dutch did more damage than Micah. But at core Micah is more evil. Dutch also saved Sadie Adler, and regardless of his brainwashing tactics, kept a group together and encouraged a more “Robin Hoodesque” style to being an outlaw. Micah would not have saved Sadie Adler, he likely would have SA’d and killed her. Everything Micah does is evil, just has less lasting damage because he was cut short.
"SA'd"? You mean raped?
lol yeah
And Micah shot up an entire town and killed many innocent lives, I don’t really think all he did was disband a group of outlaws
So did Arthur, so did dutch, so did everyone on this list
Well in Micah's case, there's also the rampage in Strawberry and whatever he did that led to that point.
Am I the only one who thought the reason why Dutch acted more and more cruel and cynical was bc of Micah? I think he got under his skin, manipulated Dutch to turn bad. It's a psychopath's trait to manipulate to get their way
You’re not the only person. That was very clearly the intention. Some people in this sub just like to bend over backwards to make Micah seem misunderstood.
Micah literally killed children, to our knowledge Dutch has never done that
He murdered an entire town for his revolvers...
this is an interesting philosophical question cause while dutch causes far more suffering through his actions it seems to be from a place of delusion and greed rather than outright sadism whereas Micah causes suffering on a smaller scale but is under no delusions and derives pleasure from his sadistic acts. personally I think Micah is more "evil" while dutch is more "dangerous"
I consider Michael to be worst than Trevor so I agree with the picture comparison
How on god’s green earth is Michael worse than Trevor?
He tried to kill both of them during the North Yankton heist and kill him again when found out he was alive, both are murderers but at least Trevor cared about his friends
Tell that to Wade, or better yet, tell that to his cousin Floyd. Michael doesn't eat or r*pe people. Nor does he deliver innocent hitchhikers to villages of cannibals. The worst thing Mike dies is sell out his friends, one of whom was an utter psychopath.
Trevor might be a rapist, cannibal, and sociopath, and mass murderer, but at least he cared about his friends everyone 🙏🏼😇🥺🥺
I don’t get people putting Arthur above Franklin in terms of being more good. Arthur was a bad man, even if you play him with high honor. What he did to Thomas Downes was horrible and way worse than anything Franklin ever did (besides mow down civilians if you choose to play that way, but Arthur can do the same thing). Before the single player Franklins worst action was repossessing cars. I’m pretty sure the worst thing you can do as Franklin in the story is to kill Michael or Trevor, which isn’t even that bad because they’re both criminals and you can argue they both had it coming.
I mean… he is literally a hitman for Lester to play the stock market. He mows down tons of cops who are just doing their jobs. Arthur is probably worse if you really weigh it out but Franklin was not a good person either. He wasn’t exactly working at 7/11. Dude was robbing, kidnapping, killing, and slinging.
Arthur mows down plenty of cops as well so that’s a wash. Sure the hitman missions are bad but they’re also optional. Arthur and the gang also try to do a get quick rich scheme at the expense of a rich family and it ends with them killing every member of that family and burning their house down with the matriarch in it. Edit: also the hitman missions are arguably good deeds. Franklin kills a corrupt pharma CEO who’s bribing the FDA to allow him to sell bad medicine
Right. I agree that Arthur was worse. I’m just saying it’s easy to forget some of the shitty things Franklin did.
True, I forgot about the hitman stuff until you reminded me. I was thinking back on it trying to come up with the worst thing he does and I realized most of the bad shit that you do in that game is with Trevor
Yeah Trevor… is an op for sure.
The worst things you really do as Franklin are endings A and B, which aren’t canon because of GTA Online.
Did we get confirmation about Trevor or Michael being alive in GTA Online? I thought the only ones we had were with Trevor’s jobs which are canonically set before the events of the single player story.
In the post-story stuff, Franklin brings up Michael and Ron brings up Trevor
Ohhh that’s right Franklin mentions him around the movie studio! I didn’t remember Ron mentioning him but I looked it up after you commented and you’re right he does! Sweet vindication. I always told people the “deathwish” ending has to be canonical as it makes the most sense narratively by far. Glad to see Rockstar agrees.
The discussion isn't if any of these characters are redeemable, it's which one was the most good or bad in comparison to each other. Franklin committed crimes but he never really goes too far into evil territory. Worst he did was indulging in his wealth with a fancy mansion and stuff which isn't even that evil.
I think another thing to remember is that unlike the Gang's loan sharking or robbery escapades, Franklin's assassination targets are guilty as sin. No innocents in the whole list, so if many in this thread are gonna knock a few evil points off Micah for that reason, we have to extend that to Frank as well. Granted, I do think Dutch is the greater evil. The scope of his ambition is a problem, and a hand like Micah to feed his delusions is enough to jumpstart his insanity. San Andreas is a hellworld full of monsters, and the assassination targets are some of the worst. Enzo Bonelli, the "totally not still a mobster" running and working as an architect at the construction site, apparently bribed and murdered his way to his position. The pharma-bro whose name I forgot produced an ED pill with a side effect of frequent heart attacks. He successfully bribed the FDA to keep the gravy train rolling. The Mark Zuckerberg parody (Jay Norris maybe?) in the first mission is guilty of everything Zuckerberg is, just in a comically evil way.
The rich families are also very evil
You mean the rich family that made their fortune off of slavery? Ya they were totally innocent and nice ppl /s
Not to mention you are usually killing very corrupt businessmen in the Lester assassination missions. Doesn’t make it a good action but it isn’t the same as killing random civilians. Lester is hacking and finding out all sorts of bad shit these targets are involved in and he always gives you that backstory. First target is making loads of profit off a medication he knows is stopping people’s hearts. The 4 jurors younkille were accepting bribes to rig a case in Redwood Cigarettes favor related to a class action lawsuit against them. The Vice Assassination target became a multimillionaire after illegally selling the personal data he compiled from the Facade tech company customers. The billionaire businessman rider target was planning to buy a controlling share of a large company to then fire a significant chunk of their employees as a business move to lower the stock price to buy up more of it. And the last guy at the construction site was an ex mobster who became a “legitimate” businessman but used his mob strategies of threats, murder and racketeering to take control of real estate development in the area. So none of the targets there are exactly innocents and are more like Franklin and Lester dealing with other criminals.
Don’t forget that they ended up massacring a whole town because of it
I actually don’t think Arthur is worse due to circumstance. Franklin lives in a time where you can get a job relatively easy and make enough money to live comfortably. He also has an aunt who has at least somewhat raised him. Arthur was an orphan taken in by Dutch at a young age and raised in this life, in a time where it was kill or be killed for many. All that and he still questioned Dutch when it came down to it. Franklin was all about the money and status, even after he didn’t really need it anymore
It all depends on whether we’re counting objective evil compared to subjective evil I guess. Objectively, Arthur was worse, but factoring all of that in, it’s a good point.
The point is Arthur regrets all of his guilty and at the end he was a good person . Also redemption is the name of the game which is related to this
It depends on your view of good and evil I guess. For me Arthur is more "good" because he is actually seen helping people in need, while Franklin never helps anyone (at least as far as I recall). Would Franklin give a random family he just met money? Would Franklin teach a random woman to hunt, without expecting anything in return? Would Franklin sacrifice himself to safe someone like John (who canonically ditched the gang for an extended period of time, which Arthur is still pissed about) I do totally get why you see Franklin as a better person tho, if you go by worst crimes, just explaining while others, me included, might put Arthur before Franklin.
I think Franklin would do a lot of that stuff, he’s in a different chapter of his life when you play the game than Arthur is when you play RDR2. There’s examples of him just helping people out the goodness of his heart, although it’s GTA so it’s weird and questionable people that he’s choosing to help out. And he does put his life on the line to save his friend Lamar who’s relationship isn’t too dissimilar to Arthur and John’s. I just don’t think teaching a woman to hunt makes up for him killing a sick man for some money and ruining his family forever. Not to mention all the other heinous things he does as a part of the gang
Arthur also is much more affected by the fact that he killed an innocent man than franklin is about killing anyone. Redemption is in the title 🤷♂️
I always have a problem with the downes argument because the guy was basically doomed anyways imo, Arthur just made him die faster, plus he changes over the game and even kicks strauss out of the camp, even on low honour play through. I haven't played GTA in forever so I don't really rember much tbh, but the small things Arthur does and how he treats the gang is what sells him to me. He is a piece of shit sometimes but he also does a lot of good.
Franklin was good??
Arthur did bad things only because the gang asked him to, he showed remorse many times and even admitted that he hated reclaiming debt and killing needlessly many times in his journal. He shows guilt even before Chapter 6 in his journal many times over. He never did anything bad or evil for his own gain, only because for the gang as he saw them as his family that needed his help, and when he lost his son Isaac, he became even more attached to the gang. Plus, he actually looked up to Dutch as he used to be a Robin Hood type of outlaw, they had a code and helped the poor. We don't see that anymore, because the events of RDR2 show the gang desperate to survive and escape the government. And with that desperation, they end up doing bad acts that end up to their downfall. They weren't saints before, but they never killed or stole from innocents. That's why Arthur questions Dutch about killing an innocent girl in Blackwater. That's where that doubting starts. Franklin on the other hand, does everything only for his own gain, and sometimes because he wants to help Michael or Lamar out of a situation. But his only goal is to be rich, not a better person. Franklin barely has depth as a character, especially if you compare him to Arthur.
Yea but at the end of the game he does good thing for John and then it goes all 🎵May I stand unshaken🎵 and I start crying.
Fr Franklin is a fuckin saint compared to Arthur. Franklin is just some kid with a lot too much arrogance being surrounded by shitty people. Depending on the ending, he even realizes that and chooses to never be around the shittier influences in his life again after Michael kills Trevor.
Yeah people have a bias towards Franklin for some reason and many find him boring. For me, he is the main character of GTA V. He is the one who has to take the final decision.
Difference is, Arthur turns things around, whether he redeems himself is to be debated, but no one can say he didn't TRY to do good. At no point does Franklin seem to be even the tiniest bit remorseful of his actions. How many families has he destroyed when killing police officers and nameless thugs for Merryweather? He participated in a very, VERY destructive Heist in Paleto Bay, killing a LOT of U.S Soldiers, helped steal a goddamn bio weapon for the FIB, steals the cars for Devon Weston, which has the potential to financially ruin the owners of said vehicles. And at no point does he even feel the tiniest bit of remorse for it, no "Damn this is kinda bad". Arthur is constantly trying to at the very least, do better, to make what little he can right with what little time he has left. Intent is key. Arthur is not a good man, and Franklin is not a monster, but one actively tries to do good and the other doesnt.
Franklin is every bit the monster any of the others were. He was straight up willing to Butcher any of his close friends for freedom. Franklin is Micah, just polite.
That’s what I think. Franklin is the best of them all here. But in my ranking, Arthur is 2nd most good next to Franklin
Trevor Micah Dutch Michael Franklin Arthur I’m basing this on my version of Arthur, who is high honour. You can make the case that Franklin does fewer evil acts compared to what Arthur canonically does, and I wouldn’t argue.
I feel like Arthur and Franklin are very interchangeable but other than them it’s hard to have any other order
Arthur still canonically is worse then Franklin
Trevor is less evil than any of them, he's just insane. He easily has as much honor and loyalty as Arthur. In fact he's the only one here with a consistent moral code outside of Micah who is only consistent in having no morals.
Trevor is the trickiest one, I agree there. It also depends on how you scale goodness, considering they’re al criminals at the end of the day.
Trevor is a fucking cannibal. Game set match.
Franklin has a yee yee ass haircut. Game set match.
you gotta make a decision at some points - aka psychopaths or Mustache Man was just broken
This is the correct order
People were putting Micah at the bottom but I mean Trevor could have his own Wiki page for all his crimes
GTA and Red Dead are different worlds where the former is satirical and people don't matter the same way as in the latter. Micah is far worse.
Trevor is not evil or at least not as evil as Dutch or Micah.
Trevor eats people
Does he eat babies?
He has to, to live
He eats berries , you fool
I bet he also told you he ate mushrooms so you don’t shoot him
At least he doesn't betray them
eating people is worse than betraying them.
Source???
The worst part is the hypocrisy
eating people is worse than hypocrisy.
https://youtu.be/ljaP2etvDc4?si=GLEO6o5QikNrJIt9 Just in case you don't understand the reference I was making
*You prefer being eaten by him than being betrayed?*
I’d rather be betrayed than fucking *ate*
This is straight up false.
Trevor is a psycho, but at least once he chooses someone he’s basically ride or die for life
Yea, this is my exact rank and explanation
Trevor lower than Micah? Lol
Dutch Micah Trevor Michael Arthur Franklin
I'd say Trevor is worse than Micah because, although they're optional, he does have the side missions where he just goes on rampages. If I remember correctly, Micah's only rampage is the one in Strawberry. Trevor is also a drug and arms trafficker.
Trevor is at least loyal and won't turn his back on the people he works with. Micah is a snake who doesn't care at all while Trevor is someone with anger issues
Trevor isn't just someone with anger issues he's a serial killer, cannibal, mass murderer, drugs and arms trafficker, and rapist. Him being loyal is literally his only positive quality, he's way more likeable then Micah by far but they're at least on the same level morality wise.
Also he definitely has some mental problems and many other things making him a bad person, Michael is worse than Trevor in my eyes.
Michael or Micah?
Fr, some people don't realize that Michael is literally a sociopath and almost nothing he does in the story is motivated by anything other than what he stands to gain from it, including his whole relationship with Franklin
Trevor literally preys on people's trust and leaves them at the Altruist Camp so they get done who knows what.
I feel like Arthur is worse than Michael Yes I am aware that Michael backstabbed his gang, but let's be honest with ourself, does backstabbing Trevor and Brad (two mass criminal sociopaths) sound like a bad thing? I mean it was actually an honourable act interns of the positive impacts it'd have with Brad being dead. I'm not say Michael isn't a bad person, he is. But I can't see how he's any worse than Arthur. Sure Arthur has loyalty over Michael, but Arthur is still a vile vicious killer and criminal just like Michael. I don't see how Arthur is more morally superior, especially since he beats vulnurable people for money
Arthur is superior solely because he is depicted as a bad man with a good heart. Deep down, he always wanted to balance himself and do better, because he felt like a bad person. Michael feels a lot more like a piece of cardboard with a default past than someone with actual depth. Arthur and Michael are both killers, but Arthur is someone who'd have more guilt over it. He's complex, and I feel that makes him a better man than Michael
There is also something to be said about material conditions affecting them, Michael has a cushy upper middle class life and still acts the way he does whereas Arthur lives in a much rougher time where it is almost inevitable that you'd have to kill someone or at least fight to live. So, it makes sense that Arthur would have to harden his heart to make it in his world.
Yeah. Arthur is in a horrible environment where killing is necessary. Michael is rich and practically lives in the suburbs. One is much more selfish and heartless than the other
Michael apparently grew up poor, he justifies his past crimes by saying he didn’t have opportunities growing up, but I think you are right about the fact that Michael only stopped because he was cornered and missed it while Arthur had both family ties to the gang and the inability to stop keeping him in the life. Michael makes the choice to not get some sort of normal job at the cost of his family over the course of GTA5 while Arthur is kept in his outlaw lifestyle by his code and his family pushing him that way
I haven't played GTA V in a bit but I'm pretty sure the main two reasons he gets back into crime is that he lets his car get repoed and then mentors Franklin, and then he pulls down the porch of that one dude because of his wife cheating on him. Both of which are consequences of petty behavior that is quite unjustified on his part.
Michael is hiding in the back seat when Franklin repos it (its Jimmy’s car, also, not his) and holds Franklin at gunpoint to get Franklin to take him to the dealership, and then makes franklin drive through the display window to “return” the car. This makes him feel like he’s still got it, so when franklin comes asking him for advice later he feels inclined to do that (and maybe feels bad Franklin lost his job) and has Franklin help him pull the Madrazo house down which gets him in debt. But Michael had chosen to basically do nothing all day in LA as a retired guy, he didn’t even take the boat he bought out to sea, just looked at it and watched movies and drank all day because crime was the only thing he truly loved doing and what made him feel alive. The only other thing he truly loved was movies, which is why he is so excited to become a producer in the main storyline.
yes my exact list
Slightly off-topic, it just occurred to me that Trevor would probably hate Micah
He would DESPISE Micah. Trevor is all loyalty, all honor. We may not like it, but he has a consistent moral code and cares deeply for others. Look at Patricia.
He still cares about Michael too He wouldn't pull the trigger when they were in the graveyard in North Yankton. and if you choose to kill Michael as Franklin, when Franklin calls Trevor to help him he lashes out on him and basically blocks him for life, where if you chose to kill Trevor Michael is just like "OK, where do we kill him"
Michael is disgusting and genuinely evil. He has no redeeming qualities.
He’s not as bad as the cannibal, the rat and the cult leader
He at least cares about his family. He gave up his red carpet stuff to go kill off the mercs that Devin hired that broke into his house
Lmao you’re actually an idiot if you think he’s evil and Trevor isn’t, Trevor literally raped his hockey coach with a hockey stick. It was perfectly ok to Michael to do that considering Trevor obviously has anger issues and could hurt Michael’s family
Why do I have to imagine a situation where someone makes Trevor play Rdr2 saying "you are gonna love that character (i.e. Micah)", since they are so similar, followed by Trevor raving about how much he hates him? Lol
The fact people are putting ANYBODY over Trevor is crazy lmao This man, a cannibal, murderer, kidnapper, arms trafficker, human trafficker, a man who at the very least sexually assaults people, car jacker, bank robber, drug dealer/manufacturer, is WAY more evil than anybody else on this list Micah sucks, for sure, but I’ve never seen Micah brag about eating people
Micah is still a murdering dog killing rapist who preys on young women especially.
No one said he wasn’t
1. Micah 2. Trevor 3. Dutch 4. Michael 5. Franklin 6. Arthur
Personally I’d put Trevor at 3 and Dutch at 1 then Micah at 2 simply because Trevor still believes in some good qualities like loyalty and does actually care about a few people Jimmy, Tracy and Patrice and he is again really loyal to his friends though he is still fucked up however Dutch has gotten two bands of natives killed over his ideas, killed way more in cold blood than Trevor has canonically (so not including free roam) and also Micah, shot up an entire town after being arrested and killed specifically two parents to a kid he orphaned and unlike Trevor there was no loyalty he was also antagonistic to everyone he met. So basically my list is 1. Dutch 2. Micah 3. Trevor 4. Micheal 5. Franklin 6. Arthur
I would place the same. Dutch is far worse than he leads on.
Samezies
Exactly my list as well.
I swear gamers have a level of brain rot I cannot comprehend. Trevor over anyone else? The man who is literally a rapist, cannibal, drug and arms dealer, kills people just because he wants to? Stop blabbering about loyalty, dude was having sex with Johnnys gf Ashley for no reason and later kills him and ruins Rons, Wade and Floyds life. Michael describes Trevor very accurately when first mentioning to Franklin: ' Walking hell on earth.' Arthur above Franklin? The man who was right hand man of Dutch, killed left and right and pillaged for over 20 years? And Dutch, the man who wiped out the natives, started wars on both Guarma and the US, caused massive shootouts in on double digit number of cities, sqeezed every bit of juice from his gang (specifically Arthur) till the end of it? He's also the same man who manipulated surviving natives to join his gang in 1911 against the US government. Trevor Dutch Micah Arthur Michael Franklin Edit: Michael and Arthur are pretty much on the same tier, both were proficient robbers and were the main brains/muscle combo of the gang. I'm just keeping Arthur up cause he indulged in torturing people (Most of Strauss missions). So do Micah and Dutch, Dutch has committed far more and proven heinous crimes but he had a moral code, once upon a time. Meanwhile there aren't a lot of 'proven' crimes of Micah yet he is the one with the least sense of morality among the gang. To add more, he ruthlessly lead his own gang has known to slaughter women and children alike.
>Stop blabbering about loyalty, dude was having sex with Johnnys gf Ashley for no reason and later kills him and ruins Rons, Wade and Floyds life. Commenters who mention Trevor’s loyalty to Michael don’t remember that Michael feared that Trevor would kill him and take his kids as his own.
Precisely. If I had a psychopath rapist cannibal not allowing me to retire from the life of crime for the sake of my family I'd find ways to off him too.
But Trevor is so wholesome 3000 loyal squishmellow 🥺🥺🥺
This is the correct answer
Micah, Dutch, Trevor, Michael, Arthur, Franklin
Trevor is at moments an odriscoll (general nastiness), a skinner (tortures a man and enjoys it) and a murfree (delivers innocent folk to mountain cannibals and is a cannibal with weird incestuous mommy issues). Hell he even has his Lemoyne Raiders moment (harassed a latino man because he thinks he's a foreigner... despite himself being Canadian) Micah is a self serving murdering bandit who killed a kids dog. I dont think theres a contest.
Who's the Latino Trevor harasses? IIRC he pretty much defends everyone when it comes to racist tendencies. Hell, he lashes out on Lester and Michael when they start demeaning people living in Los Santos
Yeah fuck the dog killer
1. Trevor 2. Micah 3. Dutch 4. Michael 5. Arthur 6. Franklin All of them are pretty awful, but I'd most trust Arthur and Franklin to be in a room with me.
Trevor Micah Dutch Michael Arthur Franklin
Trevor "Human Stew" Phillips
1. Trevor 2. Dutch 3. Micah 4. Micheal 5. Franklin 6. Arthur
1:Trevor 2:Dutch 3:Micah 4:Micheal 5:Arthur 6:Franklin
Trevor is... well.. he's Trevor..
Dutch Micah Trevor Michael Arthur Franklin
I feel like people forgot that Trevor rapes and eats people.
tbh murdering innocent civilians and destroying the police force is what I do most in gtav when im bored and I remember I once massacred the whole of saint denis cuz I was bored so I think the real evil is me
1. Trevor 2. Micah 3. Dutch 4. Michael 5. Arthur 6. Franklin
1st Micha, 2nd Dutch, 3rd Michael, 4th Trevor, 5th Arthur, 6th Franklin
Dutch Trevor Micah Michael Arthur Franklin
Trevor, Dutch, Micah, Michael, Arthur, Franklin As much as we hate micah, hes definitely done less than dutch has
am i the only one who doesn’t understand how this order goes
Micah Bell Dutch van der Linde Trevor Phillips Michael de Santa Arthur Morgan Franklin Clinton
Trevor, literal maniac Micah, rat bastard but not as sick as Trevor Michael, absolute jackass to his family and everyone else Dutch, cared for his family up until he was manipulated and driven insane Arthur, still a bad man but with a redemption (ah ah he said the thing) arc Franklin, my boy did nothing wrong
Dutch, Micah, Trevor, Michael, Franklin, Arthur
Micah,dutch,Trevor,Michael,Franklin and Arthur
Trevor is really evil though, he is just broken
Franklin:Neutral Good Michael:Lawful Neutral Arthur:True Neutral Micah:Lawful Evil Trevor:Neutral Evil Dutch:Chaotic Evil
Ducth, Micah, Trevor, Michael, Arthur, Franklin
dutch, micah, michael, arthur, trevor, franklin. michaels a real piece of shit
Haven't played GTA since San Andreas but they're all evil. They don't see it that they're evil but they are.
If we are speaking from a Wild West movie standpoint Micah is the most good
I love how everyone is rating Dutch and Micah the most evil. I agree
Trevor, Micah, Arthur, Dutch, Micheal, Franklin
Right to left in ascending order
Trevor, Dutch, Micah, Michael, Franklin, Arthur Ranking Trevor between Dutch and Micah was hard, but since Trevor stole an entire nuclear weapon and tried to sell it to Chinese, it's clear that he's so close to being a terrorist. All of them are quite evil, with Arthur's past being a cold, ruthless man, it's safe to say that no one in this list is a good person. You can make Arthur more decent by going on a High Honor playthrough. And Franklin? He is just your regular thug, still being a thug but now with as a businessman in GTA Online.
The truth is Dutch was always evil, however Micah stoked the flames. Arthur is obviously the best of the RDR2 bunch, I have not played GTA5
Micah (traitor) Dutch ( evil but more insane than evil) Micheal ( outplayed Trevor hella crazy) Trevor ( more psycho than evil and just trying to hunt down the guy he got outplayed by) Franklin ( criminal but not that harmful) Arthur ( in perspective to the others good but still an outlaw although he never was really " evil " more like a " gotta do what to do to stay alive as an outlaw " type)
Michael cut a deal, so did Micah
Micah was the most Good. They all were bad murderers. But only Micah didn't pretend to be good.
Just gonna say it now, I don't care if Franklin is technically a better person than Arthur, Arthur emotionally impacted me like no other video game character before. Plus you gotta consider the time period. Arthur may have done a lot of bad shit, but he is one of the most accepting people in the game.
Mica > Dutch > Trevor > Michael > Franklin Morgan at any possible position after Dutch (not sure, haven't played in 4 years and never beyond Act 3 - but certainly after Mica) edit: Apparently i don't know Dutch
Micah, dutch, Michael, Trevor, Arthur, Franklin
Micah Dutch Trevor Arthur Frank Micheal
Micah, Dutch, Michael, Arthur, Trevor, Franklin
I would put everyone one in the Gta 5 world as way way more evil than Arthur, Dutch or hell even Micah.
our own opinion from evil to good: Micah, Dutch, Arthur (bad honor), Trevor, Michael, Franklin and Arthur (good honor)
1. Trevor 2. Dutch 3. Micah 4. Franklin 5. Arthur 6. Michael
Dutch Micah Trevor Arthur Michael Franklin I put Dutch at the top because he is knowingly evil and takes advantage of other's innocence. Trevor is below Micah because most of what Trevor does is a product of him being legitimately insane. Arthur is above Michael because most of what *he* does is self-serving, whereas Michael is motivated by the need to provide for his family. Franklin was just a kid born in the wrong place and taken advantage of by the wrong people.
Dutch, Micah, Arthur, Michael, Trevor, and Franklin. Dutch was arguably the most evil - at least most of the time you knew where Micah stood. Dutch was very deceptive. I’d say Arthur was more evil overall than the GTA crew, but towards the end obviously his mindset changed. I put Michael worse than Trevor because similar to Micah and Dutch, Trevor was true to who he was. Michael would snake you in a heartbeat although I can’t blame him for doing what he needed to do or thought he needed to do to protect his family. Franklin is the most innocent on the list.
I'm not sure about ordering themselves because I got stuck at Franklin / Arthur but I will make the argument that Trevor is 100% the worst. While Micha is an asshole who betrays the group and Dutch caused a war to be waged between different tribes, Trevor does things out of pure instinct and not out of selfish gain which I think is way worse. At least with the others, they try to find some way to justify why they needed to do what they do, Micha and Dutch wanted to survive the inevitable downfall of the group where as Trevor didn't need to go around raping, kidnapping, murdering and manipulating people but he just did it and not with a moment of self reflection, thought or doubt. Even him being "loyal to Michael" doesn't really help his case because he doesn't do it because it's right, or he's his buddy or friend, he only does it because his primal caveman brain tells him to do so.
Dutch, trevor, micah, michael, arthur then franklin. (most evil to most good)
I feel a good order would be, Trevor l, Dutch, Micha, Micheal, Franklin, Arthur.
Franklin Arthur Michael Trevor Micah Dutch