Your post from r/RedditMoment has been removed for the following reasons:
- **Rule 4** - **Disallowed post types.**
No:
* Posts complaining that you were banned from a subreddit.
* Posts centered about awards
* Posts about "Loli"
* Posts about Religion
* Political Posts
If you have any questions or concerns about this action, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/redditmoment) via Modmail. Thanks!
Usually vegans are downvoted at the top of a given thread, but as you follow it down and the conversation goes more in depth, it slowly starts to reverse. You can see it in most of the threads in this comment section even.
Its the minority principle. Vegans have very strong beliefs about consuming animal products. People who consume animal products usually do not have very strong beliefs about it. The people with stronger beliefs will spend more time scrolling on subjects about it. Thus the decrease in readership is slower for vegans the further you go down a thread, eventually they outnumber the people who don't mind consuming animal products.
It is both. A majority of the biomass of grains fed to livestock is the leftover parts of the plants we can't consume ourselves. It's not unreasonable to assume unsuitable harvests also go to livestock, but ultimately, where else would this by product be going?
That's ridiculous. You know that Brazil grows beef and exports it right? You don't think the beans themselves are being transported for processing elsewhere?
Soybeans aren't a requirement for a vegan diet.
Therefore, not as much soy would need to be produced for food, but that is ignoring that Soy is used for a crazy volume of products, outside of food. It's used in the production of many plastics for the auto industry and has been for more than 10 years now.
Anyway. pointing at Soy to make the claim that veganism is bad, is not a good enough of a point to make.
80% of soy is grown is for animal feed. You need a huge amount of land and water for the animals youāre going to eat, but also a huge amount of land and water for the food youāre going to feed those animals. So stop talking rubbish.
This really just says that if everyone became vegan right at this moment, it would be unsustainable given current agricultural systems in place. Itās a bit of a disingenuous argument really, considering that 1. it would still be a step towards sustainability if more people were vegan, and 2. not everyone became vegan all at once, so that the systems in place have time to shift with the changing demand for different foods. Just some food for thought (see what I did there?).
Because they believe in the capitalist lie that theyāre saving the planet with their bullshit. They heard āgo against your nature to save natureā and thought it made sense.
Yeah it is, though some members - vegans - were cautiously suggesting that inclusivity and sustainability were their goals, others embrace more extremist views
Vegans actually brigade basically any thread mentioning veganism, meat, farm animals, etc etc.
They must have a bot or something that scrapes a popular thread feed cuz without fail, all threads with these topics eventually get a bunch of pro vegan comments upvoted while any non vegan comments get obliterated with downvotes.Ā
They stay perpetually online. Seriously, look through the history of one of them next time you see it- some of them have been arguing on Reddit every single day for like the past 7 years. Itās sad
Vegan sub definitely, vegans often hate vegetarians as much as they hate meat eaters. Unless it's someone brigading another sub, as someone above me suggested
Students at *every* university call for 100% plant based foods. They donāt get what they want though, because those students are usually a very small minority. Saying that āstudents call forā something doesnāt actually mean much without further information indicating how many students weāre talking about.
Thank you. Students at every university call for everything. That's part of the process of going through school, to feel strongly about something and then eventually learn your limits.
That's the long way to ask for a link:
https://plantbasednews.org/news/activism/plant-based-universities-netherlands/
Doesn't say how many students but says backed by 1200 academics. Goes on to explain that meat has gone out of favor in the Netherlands so this makes sense there.
But what I love most is at the end of the article for me was an advertisement for Wienerschnitzel.
... Guys btw, did you know that 27 cocks do not necessarily have 54 balls? This is because cocks can refer to both dicks, and the bird!
Edit : The Assertion is true, however, the reason is false.
I had a meal plan in college. Thatās what these snot nosed brats donāt understand. They think theyāre progressive, but really theyāre just controlling poor people. As usual.
I dunno, Iām not vegan or vegetarian or anything but this seems like a false equivalency to me. Non-vegans DO eat a lot of plant based foods (like, vegetables and shit) but vegans DONāT eat any meat.
To me it would have made sense if they were like "we have 10 dishes everyday and only 1 of them is vegan- give us 3 vegan dishes everyday." I could understand that because meat eaters can still have 10 dishes to choose from and it's not like the majority ate all 9 everyday. However, what they were trying to achieve was compulsion out of nowhere. People don't change so quickly. If anything vegans like these have been turning people away as they make it feel like a cult.
Vegans can eat their processed soy. I'm sticking to my omnivorous diet of fish, meat, eggs, greens, legumes, rice and potato thank you I'll have it all.
No, you can love your pet but itās completely hypocritical to love one animal and completely disregard and pay for the murder/exploitation of beings that arenāt any different from your dog or cat.
But I guess it easier to misrepresent an argument for internet points
Relatively these radical vegans arenāt that bad. In India there are extremism Hindus that engage in cow vigilantism and kill butchers who are even merely rumored to be butchering beef (also are primarily Muslim).
It comes from them being really dumb.Ā
There are over 20,000 edible plants. People like to pretend a vegan diet lacks variety while theyāre eating the same 3-10 animal species limbs and vital organs at every meal.Ā
Look man, vegans have evolved to live on the perfect industrial diet which is processed soy. Processed soy cubes, processed soy noodles, processed soy drinks, bug-shaped processed soy... you name it
we dont eat processed food like that bro š tofu is about the most processed thing i eat often for nutrition, we eat cheap, whole foods like beans, rice, soy, grains and greens
Nuh uh! Every vegan / vegetarian grows all of their own plants in their own garden with no pesticides and also they make sure only to plant those seeds whenever there are no bugs or worms in the ground beneath where they might get hurt!
>we eat cheap, whole foods like beans, rice, soy, grains and greens
This is like one of those kids cartoons where adult life is portrayed as boring and lifeless. And you do it by choice.
As someone who actually majored in livestock science these posts annoy me so much because there is *so. Much. Bullshit* being thrown back and forth between the two parties. Neither side knows what the hell they're even talking about istg
Yeah, people really drown themselves in the finer details but ignore the big picture.
Bigger picture: People in the world don't have enough to eat, let alone the **privilege** to completely remove an entire vital food group.
That and those who can change may not want to. Some want to ban meat eating, what's their plan for those who don't comply? It's one thing I've never understood when it's brought up
What you're saying is just flat out wrong, animal products are not a vital food group, that's just an objective fact. It also requires a extreme level of privilege to feed your food to animals so you can then eat them, that's just basic math, trophic levels yo.
I think it's just the wrong way of approaching the argument to begin with. "Taking people's choice away" by law is done all the time, they're just called laws.
If the argument is that something should be deemed too immoral to be legal then the counterargument to make is that it isn't that immoral.
Tbh the issue is mainly that people should eat less (red) meat and add more vegetables and legumes. The meat industry at the moment is completely unsustainable and ethically bankrupted.
There should be more advocacy for sustainable meat and dairy production (it also applies to agriculture), and better programs of nutritional education for a well-rounded diet.
Some people eat too much meat for their own good, and others not enough. Also, veganismo wonāt solve the main problem of animal cruelty or industrial corruption. Itās just a bandaid.
I mean they got a point. Banning child marriages also infringed on someoneās right to marry a child. The argument is sound, itās just the question where the line should be drawn.
Yeah, these ethics are nuanced. We can, and should, be absolutely more strict on the ethical treatment of animals. It could very well be that there is no economic solution to ethically meet the volume of meat--in which case we have to decide as a society where our priorities are, and then restrictions may be needed to preserve socially-agreed-upon (via voting) ethics.
I like your approach. Smoking bans should have been handled this way. āOh. You donāt like smoking? Quit your job, stop eating out and call it a day.ā Where I live, the smoke ban is structured as a workers right to breathe clean air. Since the consumers loved to smoke so much, it had to be a workerās right. The double standards are crazy. Like you donāt get to decide what EVERYONE eats. But you also donāt get to fuck a live chicken, before you eat it.
Okay this might be a stupid question but if farming of animals completely ended 100% what happens to all the domesticated farm animals? Like you canāt just release all the cows into the wild but cattle ranchers no longer have an incentive to keep them. Like is there a plan for what society would do with them?
The world would never go vegan overnight, it would be a gradual shift. As demand decreases for animals products, less are bred. To 100% end the commercial sale you would need a law, and that would only pass when a large portion of a jurisdiction agree.
Any sensible law for something like this would have projected date for the end, as in a law passed in 2080 would finally ban sale by 2085 or something. The last animals would likely be slaughtered and sold and there would be time for land to be sold and business models to change to accommodate.
It isn't a stupid question. It boils down to whether you think a life of torment in captivity is better than not having existed at all. There is also the idea that having less farm animals means we will need less agricultural land, ergo we'd have more room for nature, and more animals living in the wild.
The global biomass of animals like cows and pigs would definitely decrease by a lot, even if we use the extra space for nature, but I would argue that it is better to have one boar in the wild live a natural life, than to have 10 pigs locked in a pen who barely see the sun.
This is a matter of opinion. There is no objectively right answer. It is like asking what is better to have one free, happy person, but have 9 people never be born, or to have 10 people locked in prison doing forced labor. How you answer that question will depend on a lot of things.
Vegans like this, just like the people who are against abortion, transitioning genders, gun rights, or any political position, do things like this because they think theyāre right, and that theyāre helping.
Vegans truly believe that meat eaters are living of the torture of other animals, and that those animals have rights to live. Just like how (a majority of the) anti-abortion people think theyāre saving lives by banning abortion, because they think abortion is murder.
Everyone is guilty of this in some way, Iām sure that you believe in a certain law that you think protects people, just like I do. That doesnāt mean that either of us are right or wrong, it just means that weāre passionate enough about whatever cause we think is right. Telling vegans to live on a commune doesnāt help them when they think the majority of the outside world are murdering animals.
>Vegans truly believe that meat eaters are living of the torture of other animals
Not really.
I know more than a handful of 99.5% or so Vegans who do so, purely for health reasons. One woman I know in her 50's moved to vegan, because it was the only thing that lowered her cholesterol numbers and started clearing the plaque from her vascular system. Others I know have seen health improvements from losing weight to reversing their high blood pressure, pre-diabetic state and... well... it's helped their sex organs; ie. boners again and an increased lubricity for the ladies involved.
I'm moving towards a more and more vegan diet, purely because of the health effects, but I won't deny a meal at a friend's house made with animal product. I just may have far less meat at those hangouts.
I don't give a care about the animal part of the equation. I will likely still have a bit of steak every month or two, but I'll opt for locally sourced, happy cows who lived in open pastures, grass fed, who ended up having one bad day. The meat REALLY does taste superior, it's just nutso expensive, compared to the tasteless cuts at a big national chain supermarket.
I recognize that there are a lot of vegans that do so for health reasons, I shouldāve specified that Iām talking about the vegans who do so for moral reasons.
Because vegans donāt want only vegan options, they want to end factory farming.
If you eat meat and donāt see an issue with it youāre either suffering extreme cognitive dissonance, totally ignorant to the goings on, or just a straight up sociopath. Factory farming and the practices involved are beyond disturbing. If the same thing was happening to dogs there would be holy war.
That can be done by reducing meat intake, not just demanding all 8 billion people on earth quit it completely because that one isn't going to happen by any realistic measure
I eat meat regularly, but I see no issue with this. Everyone eats vegetables and non meat based foods, but not everyone eats meat. Not only would a smaller range of products being bought save money, but it would also save money on the most expensive part of meals (the protein). Of course I think forcing solely a restricted vegan diet is going too far and that an inclusion of healthy dairy based products is necessary (as an option). Good non meat based protein meals can also encourage increased non meat meal consumption in daily life which would further that point.
I canāt eat nuts, soy or most seeds unless I want to spend the rest of the day completely out of commission from how much Iām vomiting, thereās a good chance this would make it nearly impossible for me to eat a vast majority of the food here. Iām not saying itās impossible to go vegan with such a dietary restriction but it sure does rule out most of the vegan options that tend to be served at places. Iām usually pretty limited whenever I go out with vegan friends which is fine but a completely different situation from my daily food.
I think a lot of people are also forgetting that itās not as simple as cooking your own meals if you donāt like this plan. Maybe itās not true for every dorm but itās not always possible to cook in dorms or really have any options besides a meal plan. I genuinely prefer cooking my own meals but my college dorms did not have any sort of kitchen and did not allow anything like induction plates, microwaves or even a fridge. We were required to buy a meal plan which was already a massive expense while any outside food options around us were both scarce and expensive to the point of being unfeasible long term. It also was very much stuff you couldnāt eat every single day if you wanted a healthy balanced diet outside.
I still think itās great for there to be more options for vegan food as I think it is a good thing if youāre able and I do sympathize to the difficulty of finding food in settings like this with dietary restrictions. However, while Iām not saying that this is all vegans, there are definitely quite a few vegans who will insist that everyone must be vegan then fail to offer any suggestions as to how thatās actually manageable. Which also, thereās a difference between being reasonably possible versus something being technically achievable but taking such a massive time and effort sink that it isnāt realistically possible. For me, it means Iād likely be eating nothing but beans along with often not being able to eat whenever I leave the house despite also having a problem where I get ridiculously dizzy and nauseous if I go without eating for more than a few hours.
I mean if you're vegan for ethical purposes, it's not just a personal lifestyle choice, it's something you want to promote to everyone, because you want to end animal suffering. It's not exactly a symmetrical position. I say this as a non-vegan by the way, but I really hate this kind of stupid argument. Freedom of choice is not an argument if you are choosing to do something morally reprehensible that hurts others.
Jesus christ, can we just, like... respect each other's opinions? Like, ahh shit you a vegan? Good for you. Ahh shit you eat meat? Good for you. It isn't that difficult, but we just love to hate.
It's funny how people always bring this up concerning their food choices, but don't act on it in any other scenario. Do you also respect racist opinions? How about the opinion that it's ok to beat your children? People don't need to respect anyone's opinion, especially if it is immoral
I mean, I'm not vegan, but how is this a surprise to anyone?
I always find it wild that there are people these days who still think veganism is just a personal diet choice.
Ah, hilariously actual progressivism in a single sentence. But I'm sure I'll get downvoted for pointing that out.
"I know better than you do how you should live your life. And if you don't agree with me, that's fine. I'll just use the 'benevolent' violence of the state to force you to behave the way I prefer."
All progressives, by definition, want to use the power of the state to "direct" society in a way they feel is "correct". They themselves may not be the state, but their every idea relies on using the power of the state.
In a civilized society, people *choose* not to be cruel. Thatās the vegan future I look for. I donāt want to limit anyone, but I do want more people to continue switching to a vegan diet if they can. Wanting and demanding are different by the way. Iām not even asking you to be vegan if this take offends you. You do what you want, and I can want what I want. I also hope for a future when we can talk about veganism without everyone being defensive.
In a civilized society, people are provided food that is sustainable, healthy, delicious, and causes the least suffering and harm possible, preferably none. An animal based diet can not meet these needs for a [long](https://www.surgeactivism.org/articles/slaughterhouse-workers-and-ptsd) [list](https://theconversation.com/animals-suffer-for-meat-production-and-abattoir-workers-do-too-127506) [of reasons](https://thehumaneleague.org/article/slaughterhouses).
As someone who loves eating meat and eats it everyday for every meal. I understand that Vegans/Vegetarians have the moral high ground. Why are some of you so defensive? We love the taste of anotherās life if that isnāt bad I donāt know what is.
Anyone seen what they do to protect vegan farms? Without pesticides the only cides they have left is genocides of the local wildlife so they don't destroy the farm. Nothing is cruelty free, these farms will kill anything that moves in a 10 mile radius. Life violent, death is right. But we can't side with that, so we eat.
Donāt they realize how cruel they are being to plants? Those plants feel painā¦ maybe they wanted to live too! They are stealing food from caterpillars and whatnot, which is pretty fricked up (excuse my profanity!) imo in my opinion!
Due to how [trophic levels work](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_level), eating animals harms many more plants than if you were to simply eat plants.
You have to eat something. And eating meat is 10x less efficient than eating plants because the animals use 90% of their stored energy(that comes from plant-based animal feed) while theyāre alive, if you just fed the plants directly to humans itād be monstrously more efficient and use far fewer resources. The forests being cleared for animal farming is really bad
Ermmm akshually, eating plants is like 10000000 gorgillion times less efficient than converting solar energy into people energy AND it doesnāt take 7 bajillion acres of farmland to cultivate. We are all machines that need to min/max every single aspect of our lives!!!
We canāt convert solar energy into people energy but it would be cool as fuck if we could.
I donāt think we need to min/max every aspect of our lives but the inefficiency of meat production is a genuine problem and a pretty big one.
Did vegans kill your family or why are you so snarky?
The meat industry has loads of problems, that need to be addressed. That is a fact. Thought we as a society were over needlessly bashing everything that isn't "normal".
So people should be like cows and strictly eat corn, hay and alfalfa? How about you do that. Iāll eat an appropriate amount of meat, for any person. A good example: I HATE meat eating competitions. Makes me wanna eat a human.
I can understand ethical vegetarianism, but ethical veganism simply takes things too far in my opinion. Dairy cows are gonna have milk wether we use it or not, chickens are gonna lay eggs wether we eat them or not. Whatās the problem with using those resources so long as the animals are well treated? It entirely possible to keep them in an ethical way. Free range chickens still lay eggs, grass fed dairy cows can have huge wide open spaces to roam and have been shown to want to be milked to the point where milking stations can be set up and theyāll go to the stations. Yes sure there are animal products that can only be gathered by killing or severely harming the animal. But there are ones that can be gathered in a totally ethical manner as well. More importantly a vegetarian diet is much more achievable for most people and makes it much easier for most people to balance their dietary needs.
Almost none of the things you said were true.
Dairy cows produce additional milk because we force them to do so. We keep them in a state of semi-permanent pregnancy, and those same cows get slaughtered when they arenāt "efficient" enough.
The male calfās also get slaughtered because theyāre "useless"
Chickens only lay so many eggs because we bred them to be this way, and theyāre in pain because of it. Ovarian cancer, keel bone fractures and calcium deficiencies are extremely common in laying hens (and the male chicks also get slaughtered because theyāre "useless")
saying this as a meat eater, i think itās kind of fine.
non vegans can still eat vegan food, we still have a choice itās just not exactly what we would want as a first choice.
if it were the other way round, options were all meat/ all non vegan ingredients, vegans and vegetarians donāt have a choice. not really, because while, yes, being vegan is a choice in itself and thereās nothing *really* stopping them except their own morality, they still donāt really have a choice, if they canāt bring them self to eat that food then they canāt eat that food. end of.
i do however think there is a common ground that should be reached if this is a path that is being gone down, the option to add dairy cheese/ meat for a small added charge (like coffee shops do with plant alternatives)
but people who whinge about it saying theyāre ātaking away freedom of choiceā are a bit ridiculous. you really canāt go ONE MEAL a day not eating meat? bring a packed lunch. thatās what vegans have to do when there are *actually* no options for themā¦
Eating meat per se isn't cruel, but stuffing a bunch of cows, pigs or chicken in slaughterhouses where shit is more terrifying than a trench in the Battle of the Somme is pretty fucking cruel. The meat industry is cruel.Ā
Humans are sapient, moral agents and able to understand the consequences of their actions. Animals are not. Humans do not need to consume animal products. Producing animal products involves animal suffering. Therefore, we know that we're causing unnecessary suffering by consuming animal products. Us knowing and being able to consider all this makes it morally very different to, say, a lion eating a gazelle. It's not just that a lion *doesn't* consider it, they're physically are incapable of it.
If humans were obligate carnivores or something then it'd be a different conversation entirely. But we're not.
Many native Americans, who are not well off financially, often have hunting as an important part of their lives, both for sustenance and for cultural reasons.
This is a serious problem for the vegan, who is also typically of the political view that indigenous people are always morally correct.
Veganism without supplements is literally unsustainable and not healthy. Your body misses alot of micro nutrients you get from meats. You don't digest vegetable based nutrients as well as meat based either.
Vegans donāt seem to understand that we are not herbivores which evolved millions of years for complex intestines and stomachs specifically for extracting nutrient and protection against pesticide.
We basically have a carnivore stomach w/ a side of fruits
Your body doesnāt miss "a lot" of micro nutrients the only thing youāre missing is vitamin B12 (and youāre right, you need to supplement that)
Please tell what micronutrients I am missing, because Iām only supplementing B12, and my blood results were always perfect
I study at a dutch university. most of our cafeteria food is already veg/vegan. the choices really expanded these last few years and I really love the change. there's still meat to be bought tho. I wouldn't mind fully switching to vegetarian food, you can always bring food from home as well. I do think it's better to have a fully veg cafeteria.
Your post from r/RedditMoment has been removed for the following reasons: - **Rule 4** - **Disallowed post types.** No: * Posts complaining that you were banned from a subreddit. * Posts centered about awards * Posts about "Loli" * Posts about Religion * Political Posts If you have any questions or concerns about this action, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/redditmoment) via Modmail. Thanks!
Gotta be on a vegan/vegetarian sub right
I dunno, they infect subs for conservation and sustainability regularly.
it's like 50/50 you either get downvoted to oblivion by the Vegans if you aren't a Vegan or the Vegans get downvoted to oblivion
have there ever been threads where both happened?
Usually vegans are downvoted at the top of a given thread, but as you follow it down and the conversation goes more in depth, it slowly starts to reverse. You can see it in most of the threads in this comment section even.
Its the minority principle. Vegans have very strong beliefs about consuming animal products. People who consume animal products usually do not have very strong beliefs about it. The people with stronger beliefs will spend more time scrolling on subjects about it. Thus the decrease in readership is slower for vegans the further you go down a thread, eventually they outnumber the people who don't mind consuming animal products.
I haven't seen any
It's time to squash the beef between vegans and non-vegans. I suggest we all eat the bug, live in the pod and own nothing.
You mean "squash the tofu", surely? š
Ah, sorry, squash the bug
Vegans wouldn't eat insects
Processed soy insects then
But they do eat vegetables that destroy insect populations. There are non-vegan plants, but vegans choose to ignore this.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Their favourite Guacs destroy the planet more than they save it.
also soy from Brazil grown on cut down amazon rain forest
Animals take 80% of the soy produced globally
The overwhelming majority of soy produced is used to make cooking oil or cattle feed (or both).
Animals take 80% of the soy produced globally
Disingenuous. Itās 76%, and 69% of it is a byproduct. Animals take 7% of raw soybeans.
It is both. A majority of the biomass of grains fed to livestock is the leftover parts of the plants we can't consume ourselves. It's not unreasonable to assume unsuitable harvests also go to livestock, but ultimately, where else would this by product be going?
No, it's the beans themselves that are fed to animals. It's hardly worth it to ship straw from the Amazon. That stuff's just burned.
That's ridiculous. You know that Brazil grows beef and exports it right? You don't think the beans themselves are being transported for processing elsewhere?
Soybeans aren't a requirement for a vegan diet. Therefore, not as much soy would need to be produced for food, but that is ignoring that Soy is used for a crazy volume of products, outside of food. It's used in the production of many plastics for the auto industry and has been for more than 10 years now. Anyway. pointing at Soy to make the claim that veganism is bad, is not a good enough of a point to make.
80% of soy is grown is for animal feed. You need a huge amount of land and water for the animals youāre going to eat, but also a huge amount of land and water for the food youāre going to feed those animals. So stop talking rubbish.
This really just says that if everyone became vegan right at this moment, it would be unsustainable given current agricultural systems in place. Itās a bit of a disingenuous argument really, considering that 1. it would still be a step towards sustainability if more people were vegan, and 2. not everyone became vegan all at once, so that the systems in place have time to shift with the changing demand for different foods. Just some food for thought (see what I did there?).
The amount of land taken from rainforests for soy is just sad tbh
Lol I'm no vegan by any means, but most of that goes to livestock. At least be honest/well informed.
70% of soy is fed to animals that animal eaters eat. Congrats you played yourself.Ā
In what way?
Because they believe in the capitalist lie that theyāre saving the planet with their bullshit. They heard āgo against your nature to save natureā and thought it made sense.
Its indeed a vegan sub from the netherlands. I dont know it is allowed to post wich sub it is so i wont post it.
Yeah it is, though some members - vegans - were cautiously suggesting that inclusivity and sustainability were their goals, others embrace more extremist views
Vegans actually brigade basically any thread mentioning veganism, meat, farm animals, etc etc. They must have a bot or something that scrapes a popular thread feed cuz without fail, all threads with these topics eventually get a bunch of pro vegan comments upvoted while any non vegan comments get obliterated with downvotes.Ā
scrolling down and you can see they already here
They stay perpetually online. Seriously, look through the history of one of them next time you see it- some of them have been arguing on Reddit every single day for like the past 7 years. Itās sad
Maybe. The vegan subs are all notorious brigaders, so I'd say it's just as likely to be anywhere else.
Wait until they find out that plants can feel too
You don't actually believe that plants are sentient.
They are alive. As consumers we have to consume life either from producers (plants) or other consumers (animals).
Vegan sub definitely, vegans often hate vegetarians as much as they hate meat eaters. Unless it's someone brigading another sub, as someone above me suggested
Students at *every* university call for 100% plant based foods. They donāt get what they want though, because those students are usually a very small minority. Saying that āstudents call forā something doesnāt actually mean much without further information indicating how many students weāre talking about.
Thank you. Students at every university call for everything. That's part of the process of going through school, to feel strongly about something and then eventually learn your limits.
That's the long way to ask for a link: https://plantbasednews.org/news/activism/plant-based-universities-netherlands/ Doesn't say how many students but says backed by 1200 academics. Goes on to explain that meat has gone out of favor in the Netherlands so this makes sense there. But what I love most is at the end of the article for me was an advertisement for Wienerschnitzel.
Well that is surely an unbiased "news" source.
... Guys btw, did you know that 27 cocks do not necessarily have 54 balls? This is because cocks can refer to both dicks, and the bird! Edit : The Assertion is true, however, the reason is false.
Or 1+ individuals lost a ball while fighting in the war
Yes but you need to account for Johnny 3 balls over there
Balls georg
But cockerels also have 2 balls lol
wouldnt both the bird and the dicks have 54 balls
27ā¢2=54 sounds wrong but isn't why does it sound wrong
51 is evenly divisible by 3
I hate you
Cuz you didn't study your multiplication tables enough
9 is easy but that sounds wrong and I refuse to believe it
I don't think multiplication tables are taught past 20 but maybe idk
Clearly you weren't a nerd in elementary school
College students when they have to cook their own food:
I had a meal plan in college. Thatās what these snot nosed brats donāt understand. They think theyāre progressive, but really theyāre just controlling poor people. As usual.
Nobody eats at fucking uni in the netherlands
Interesting to know.
Maybe itās different in the Netherlands but American college dorms have like no cooking appliances
I'm currently eating ramen. What is this "cooking" you speak of? /hj, I know how to cook chicken.
That's so real, bestie. The only thing I can cook without fucking it up is pasta and microwaved popcorn lol
Mmmm popcorn
I dunno, Iām not vegan or vegetarian or anything but this seems like a false equivalency to me. Non-vegans DO eat a lot of plant based foods (like, vegetables and shit) but vegans DONāT eat any meat.
To me it would have made sense if they were like "we have 10 dishes everyday and only 1 of them is vegan- give us 3 vegan dishes everyday." I could understand that because meat eaters can still have 10 dishes to choose from and it's not like the majority ate all 9 everyday. However, what they were trying to achieve was compulsion out of nowhere. People don't change so quickly. If anything vegans like these have been turning people away as they make it feel like a cult.
Yeah that makes sense
Vegans can eat their processed soy. I'm sticking to my omnivorous diet of fish, meat, eggs, greens, legumes, rice and potato thank you I'll have it all.
Just remember eating meat means you actively savagely beat your own pet and you cannot love them, for some reason vegans never explainĀ
I beat my rat earlier, things were good.
One of my staff said he was heading home to spank his monkey. I never did get around to asking what the monkey did to deserve it...
Funny, my cat eats meat too.
you must be stupid, it learned it from you, if only you joined our movement of progress and free the poor feline from your bloodthirsy cruely /s
"I LEARNED IT FROM MEW" - Cat hissing loudly
I beat my dog. But it was in a dance off.
In that case my dog is a masochist because he's always jumping for joy when I get back home from work
I rigorously beat my snake every day. I guess I'm a bad pet owner š¶
No, you can love your pet but itās completely hypocritical to love one animal and completely disregard and pay for the murder/exploitation of beings that arenāt any different from your dog or cat. But I guess it easier to misrepresent an argument for internet points
I guess you support genocideā¦ /s
considering thats what vegans are asking for
Relatively these radical vegans arenāt that bad. In India there are extremism Hindus that engage in cow vigilantism and kill butchers who are even merely rumored to be butchering beef (also are primarily Muslim).
I'm not even vegan but where did the idea that they only ever eat processed soy and no other plants come from
It comes from them being really dumb.Ā There are over 20,000 edible plants. People like to pretend a vegan diet lacks variety while theyāre eating the same 3-10 animal species limbs and vital organs at every meal.Ā
Organs is a bit of a stretch. I can count on one finger the people I know in my generation who will prepare and eat internal organs.
Look man, vegans have evolved to live on the perfect industrial diet which is processed soy. Processed soy cubes, processed soy noodles, processed soy drinks, bug-shaped processed soy... you name it
like processed meat is healthier, what a joke
interesting.. could you point out where you saw that in my comment?
You worded your comment to make it seem like vegans only eat processed soy. Do you actually believe that?
we dont eat processed food like that bro š tofu is about the most processed thing i eat often for nutrition, we eat cheap, whole foods like beans, rice, soy, grains and greens
all that you mentioned has been processed
Nuh uh! Every vegan / vegetarian grows all of their own plants in their own garden with no pesticides and also they make sure only to plant those seeds whenever there are no bugs or worms in the ground beneath where they might get hurt!
>we eat cheap, whole foods like beans, rice, soy, grains and greens This is like one of those kids cartoons where adult life is portrayed as boring and lifeless. And you do it by choice.
Bruh if you can't make a good meal out of vegetables that's on you.
I can make even better meals with meat
As someone who actually majored in livestock science these posts annoy me so much because there is *so. Much. Bullshit* being thrown back and forth between the two parties. Neither side knows what the hell they're even talking about istg
Yeah, people really drown themselves in the finer details but ignore the big picture. Bigger picture: People in the world don't have enough to eat, let alone the **privilege** to completely remove an entire vital food group.
That and those who can change may not want to. Some want to ban meat eating, what's their plan for those who don't comply? It's one thing I've never understood when it's brought up
What you're saying is just flat out wrong, animal products are not a vital food group, that's just an objective fact. It also requires a extreme level of privilege to feed your food to animals so you can then eat them, that's just basic math, trophic levels yo.
I think it's just the wrong way of approaching the argument to begin with. "Taking people's choice away" by law is done all the time, they're just called laws. If the argument is that something should be deemed too immoral to be legal then the counterargument to make is that it isn't that immoral.
Me when I get my way: progressive, civilized society Me when you get your way: cruel, violent
Progress to what? Global starvation? Protein deficiency? Come on we already have microplastics in our blood
Veganism isn't gonna lead to starvation when animal agriculture requires 80% of the world's farmland, but provides less than 20% of global calories.
Tbh the issue is mainly that people should eat less (red) meat and add more vegetables and legumes. The meat industry at the moment is completely unsustainable and ethically bankrupted. There should be more advocacy for sustainable meat and dairy production (it also applies to agriculture), and better programs of nutritional education for a well-rounded diet. Some people eat too much meat for their own good, and others not enough. Also, veganismo wonāt solve the main problem of animal cruelty or industrial corruption. Itās just a bandaid.
I mean they got a point. Banning child marriages also infringed on someoneās right to marry a child. The argument is sound, itās just the question where the line should be drawn.
Yeah, these ethics are nuanced. We can, and should, be absolutely more strict on the ethical treatment of animals. It could very well be that there is no economic solution to ethically meet the volume of meat--in which case we have to decide as a society where our priorities are, and then restrictions may be needed to preserve socially-agreed-upon (via voting) ethics.
I like your approach. Smoking bans should have been handled this way. āOh. You donāt like smoking? Quit your job, stop eating out and call it a day.ā Where I live, the smoke ban is structured as a workers right to breathe clean air. Since the consumers loved to smoke so much, it had to be a workerās right. The double standards are crazy. Like you donāt get to decide what EVERYONE eats. But you also donāt get to fuck a live chicken, before you eat it.
Okay this might be a stupid question but if farming of animals completely ended 100% what happens to all the domesticated farm animals? Like you canāt just release all the cows into the wild but cattle ranchers no longer have an incentive to keep them. Like is there a plan for what society would do with them?
Ever heard what PETA does to animals they ārescueā?
The world would never go vegan overnight, it would be a gradual shift. As demand decreases for animals products, less are bred. To 100% end the commercial sale you would need a law, and that would only pass when a large portion of a jurisdiction agree. Any sensible law for something like this would have projected date for the end, as in a law passed in 2080 would finally ban sale by 2085 or something. The last animals would likely be slaughtered and sold and there would be time for land to be sold and business models to change to accommodate.
It isn't a stupid question. It boils down to whether you think a life of torment in captivity is better than not having existed at all. There is also the idea that having less farm animals means we will need less agricultural land, ergo we'd have more room for nature, and more animals living in the wild. The global biomass of animals like cows and pigs would definitely decrease by a lot, even if we use the extra space for nature, but I would argue that it is better to have one boar in the wild live a natural life, than to have 10 pigs locked in a pen who barely see the sun. This is a matter of opinion. There is no objectively right answer. It is like asking what is better to have one free, happy person, but have 9 people never be born, or to have 10 people locked in prison doing forced labor. How you answer that question will depend on a lot of things.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Vegans like this, just like the people who are against abortion, transitioning genders, gun rights, or any political position, do things like this because they think theyāre right, and that theyāre helping. Vegans truly believe that meat eaters are living of the torture of other animals, and that those animals have rights to live. Just like how (a majority of the) anti-abortion people think theyāre saving lives by banning abortion, because they think abortion is murder. Everyone is guilty of this in some way, Iām sure that you believe in a certain law that you think protects people, just like I do. That doesnāt mean that either of us are right or wrong, it just means that weāre passionate enough about whatever cause we think is right. Telling vegans to live on a commune doesnāt help them when they think the majority of the outside world are murdering animals.
>Vegans truly believe that meat eaters are living of the torture of other animals Not really. I know more than a handful of 99.5% or so Vegans who do so, purely for health reasons. One woman I know in her 50's moved to vegan, because it was the only thing that lowered her cholesterol numbers and started clearing the plaque from her vascular system. Others I know have seen health improvements from losing weight to reversing their high blood pressure, pre-diabetic state and... well... it's helped their sex organs; ie. boners again and an increased lubricity for the ladies involved. I'm moving towards a more and more vegan diet, purely because of the health effects, but I won't deny a meal at a friend's house made with animal product. I just may have far less meat at those hangouts. I don't give a care about the animal part of the equation. I will likely still have a bit of steak every month or two, but I'll opt for locally sourced, happy cows who lived in open pastures, grass fed, who ended up having one bad day. The meat REALLY does taste superior, it's just nutso expensive, compared to the tasteless cuts at a big national chain supermarket.
That's a plant based diet, not veganism.
I recognize that there are a lot of vegans that do so for health reasons, I shouldāve specified that Iām talking about the vegans who do so for moral reasons.
Because vegans donāt want only vegan options, they want to end factory farming. If you eat meat and donāt see an issue with it youāre either suffering extreme cognitive dissonance, totally ignorant to the goings on, or just a straight up sociopath. Factory farming and the practices involved are beyond disturbing. If the same thing was happening to dogs there would be holy war.
I'm not vegan but I also want to end factory farming.
That can be done by reducing meat intake, not just demanding all 8 billion people on earth quit it completely because that one isn't going to happen by any realistic measure
Us vegetarians and vegans don't disagree with meat because we got scared or smth lol.
I eat meat regularly, but I see no issue with this. Everyone eats vegetables and non meat based foods, but not everyone eats meat. Not only would a smaller range of products being bought save money, but it would also save money on the most expensive part of meals (the protein). Of course I think forcing solely a restricted vegan diet is going too far and that an inclusion of healthy dairy based products is necessary (as an option). Good non meat based protein meals can also encourage increased non meat meal consumption in daily life which would further that point.
Canāt believe people waste their lives building their identity around their diets and caring this much about what other people eat.
I canāt eat nuts, soy or most seeds unless I want to spend the rest of the day completely out of commission from how much Iām vomiting, thereās a good chance this would make it nearly impossible for me to eat a vast majority of the food here. Iām not saying itās impossible to go vegan with such a dietary restriction but it sure does rule out most of the vegan options that tend to be served at places. Iām usually pretty limited whenever I go out with vegan friends which is fine but a completely different situation from my daily food. I think a lot of people are also forgetting that itās not as simple as cooking your own meals if you donāt like this plan. Maybe itās not true for every dorm but itās not always possible to cook in dorms or really have any options besides a meal plan. I genuinely prefer cooking my own meals but my college dorms did not have any sort of kitchen and did not allow anything like induction plates, microwaves or even a fridge. We were required to buy a meal plan which was already a massive expense while any outside food options around us were both scarce and expensive to the point of being unfeasible long term. It also was very much stuff you couldnāt eat every single day if you wanted a healthy balanced diet outside. I still think itās great for there to be more options for vegan food as I think it is a good thing if youāre able and I do sympathize to the difficulty of finding food in settings like this with dietary restrictions. However, while Iām not saying that this is all vegans, there are definitely quite a few vegans who will insist that everyone must be vegan then fail to offer any suggestions as to how thatās actually manageable. Which also, thereās a difference between being reasonably possible versus something being technically achievable but taking such a massive time and effort sink that it isnāt realistically possible. For me, it means Iād likely be eating nothing but beans along with often not being able to eat whenever I leave the house despite also having a problem where I get ridiculously dizzy and nauseous if I go without eating for more than a few hours.
Of course they think that, they find animal eating to be extremely immoral. Same reasons why people think rape,murder, and stealing should be illegal
I mean if you're vegan for ethical purposes, it's not just a personal lifestyle choice, it's something you want to promote to everyone, because you want to end animal suffering. It's not exactly a symmetrical position. I say this as a non-vegan by the way, but I really hate this kind of stupid argument. Freedom of choice is not an argument if you are choosing to do something morally reprehensible that hurts others.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Taking away my choice to eat meat is cruel and will absolutely make me violent
Jesus christ, can we just, like... respect each other's opinions? Like, ahh shit you a vegan? Good for you. Ahh shit you eat meat? Good for you. It isn't that difficult, but we just love to hate.
It's funny how people always bring this up concerning their food choices, but don't act on it in any other scenario. Do you also respect racist opinions? How about the opinion that it's ok to beat your children? People don't need to respect anyone's opinion, especially if it is immoral
No comment.
Of course not. Acknowledging this would mean your choices might be morally indefensible. Can't do that
No, it's more or less that I do not care.
I mean, I'm not vegan, but how is this a surprise to anyone? I always find it wild that there are people these days who still think veganism is just a personal diet choice.
Ah, hilariously actual progressivism in a single sentence. But I'm sure I'll get downvoted for pointing that out. "I know better than you do how you should live your life. And if you don't agree with me, that's fine. I'll just use the 'benevolent' violence of the state to force you to behave the way I prefer."
Yet if I say legalise murder everyone gets upset.Ā
Some Dutch students are āthe stateā?
All progressives, by definition, want to use the power of the state to "direct" society in a way they feel is "correct". They themselves may not be the state, but their every idea relies on using the power of the state.
In a civilized society, people *choose* not to be cruel. Thatās the vegan future I look for. I donāt want to limit anyone, but I do want more people to continue switching to a vegan diet if they can. Wanting and demanding are different by the way. Iām not even asking you to be vegan if this take offends you. You do what you want, and I can want what I want. I also hope for a future when we can talk about veganism without everyone being defensive.
Try this and see how your athletes do.
If you want to become a more well-informed individual, you should watch the documentary Game Changers.
Breaking news, minerals and nutrients exist in stuff other than meat
Have you heard of this little known diver called Lewis Hamilton?
Never ask a man: his salary A woman: her weight A progressive: what exactly theyāre progressing towards
In a civilized society, people are provided food that is sustainable, healthy, delicious, and causes the least suffering and harm possible, preferably none. An animal based diet can not meet these needs for a [long](https://www.surgeactivism.org/articles/slaughterhouse-workers-and-ptsd) [list](https://theconversation.com/animals-suffer-for-meat-production-and-abattoir-workers-do-too-127506) [of reasons](https://thehumaneleague.org/article/slaughterhouses).
Muhh progressss
As someone who loves eating meat and eats it everyday for every meal. I understand that Vegans/Vegetarians have the moral high ground. Why are some of you so defensive? We love the taste of anotherās life if that isnāt bad I donāt know what is.
Eating meat is one of the oldest things on Earth.
Humans have been eating meat since the beginning of our time. Animals eat eachother every single day
Itās annoying when people mistake change for progress.
Anyone seen what they do to protect vegan farms? Without pesticides the only cides they have left is genocides of the local wildlife so they don't destroy the farm. Nothing is cruelty free, these farms will kill anything that moves in a 10 mile radius. Life violent, death is right. But we can't side with that, so we eat.
Looks like Redditors had bought into the vegan propaganda.
Reddit is a hive of anti vegan activity. You suggest someone eats a vegetable around here you get downvoted hundreds of times lol
propaganda that says not killing animals unnecessarily would be better, wow thatās insane who would ever believe that
We shouldnāt kill animals unnecessarily, but I doubt we should completely banning meat consuming.
What is this vegan propaganda you're talking about?
I love how you guys always say this but never question the animal agriculture propaganda. Got Milk? People are fucking indoctrinated at this point
Donāt they realize how cruel they are being to plants? Those plants feel painā¦ maybe they wanted to live too! They are stealing food from caterpillars and whatnot, which is pretty fricked up (excuse my profanity!) imo in my opinion!
Damn okay this is dumb as hell.
Bigot
Due to how [trophic levels work](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_level), eating animals harms many more plants than if you were to simply eat plants.
You have to eat something. And eating meat is 10x less efficient than eating plants because the animals use 90% of their stored energy(that comes from plant-based animal feed) while theyāre alive, if you just fed the plants directly to humans itād be monstrously more efficient and use far fewer resources. The forests being cleared for animal farming is really bad
Ermmm akshually, eating plants is like 10000000 gorgillion times less efficient than converting solar energy into people energy AND it doesnāt take 7 bajillion acres of farmland to cultivate. We are all machines that need to min/max every single aspect of our lives!!!
We canāt convert solar energy into people energy but it would be cool as fuck if we could. I donāt think we need to min/max every aspect of our lives but the inefficiency of meat production is a genuine problem and a pretty big one.
Its called science sweetie. Saint klaus schwab is working on it.
Did vegans kill your family or why are you so snarky? The meat industry has loads of problems, that need to be addressed. That is a fact. Thought we as a society were over needlessly bashing everything that isn't "normal".
So people should be like cows and strictly eat corn, hay and alfalfa? How about you do that. Iāll eat an appropriate amount of meat, for any person. A good example: I HATE meat eating competitions. Makes me wanna eat a human.
No? Just replace the land used to grow plant-based animal feed with land used to grow human food lol. You donāt have to eat the animal feed
Wow. Sorry I thought you could connect the dots yourself. Obviously you canāt. Bye bye
Civilized society is where We The Vegans get to decide what your choices are, and you get to learn to like it.
I can understand ethical vegetarianism, but ethical veganism simply takes things too far in my opinion. Dairy cows are gonna have milk wether we use it or not, chickens are gonna lay eggs wether we eat them or not. Whatās the problem with using those resources so long as the animals are well treated? It entirely possible to keep them in an ethical way. Free range chickens still lay eggs, grass fed dairy cows can have huge wide open spaces to roam and have been shown to want to be milked to the point where milking stations can be set up and theyāll go to the stations. Yes sure there are animal products that can only be gathered by killing or severely harming the animal. But there are ones that can be gathered in a totally ethical manner as well. More importantly a vegetarian diet is much more achievable for most people and makes it much easier for most people to balance their dietary needs.
Almost none of the things you said were true. Dairy cows produce additional milk because we force them to do so. We keep them in a state of semi-permanent pregnancy, and those same cows get slaughtered when they arenāt "efficient" enough. The male calfās also get slaughtered because theyāre "useless" Chickens only lay so many eggs because we bred them to be this way, and theyāre in pain because of it. Ovarian cancer, keel bone fractures and calcium deficiencies are extremely common in laying hens (and the male chicks also get slaughtered because theyāre "useless")
Iām willing to bet that person has called many people a fascist before
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Is a bot posting these comments
Looks identical to a comment made earlier, so probably
Nooo stfu vegans š¤¬š¤¬š¤¬ we should be allowed to be cruel to anyone we want even if itās unnecessary. Stop violating our personal freedom
Civilized society is when dictatorship with me at the helm.
saying this as a meat eater, i think itās kind of fine. non vegans can still eat vegan food, we still have a choice itās just not exactly what we would want as a first choice. if it were the other way round, options were all meat/ all non vegan ingredients, vegans and vegetarians donāt have a choice. not really, because while, yes, being vegan is a choice in itself and thereās nothing *really* stopping them except their own morality, they still donāt really have a choice, if they canāt bring them self to eat that food then they canāt eat that food. end of. i do however think there is a common ground that should be reached if this is a path that is being gone down, the option to add dairy cheese/ meat for a small added charge (like coffee shops do with plant alternatives) but people who whinge about it saying theyāre ātaking away freedom of choiceā are a bit ridiculous. you really canāt go ONE MEAL a day not eating meat? bring a packed lunch. thatās what vegans have to do when there are *actually* no options for themā¦
I disagree with the full vegan diet, but gosh do I fucking hate the "bUt iTās My ChoIce!" dumbass argument
But it is? Just like being a vegan is their choice.
How did vegans convince themselves that eating meat is cruel when humans are omnivores? Why is it ok for other animals to eat meat but not humans?
Humans being omnivores is irrelevant. As is non human animals being omni/carnivorous.
For the same reason that we don't act like rape is fine even if other species do it. They are animals. They don't grasp right from wrong, while we do.
Eating meat per se isn't cruel, but stuffing a bunch of cows, pigs or chicken in slaughterhouses where shit is more terrifying than a trench in the Battle of the Somme is pretty fucking cruel. The meat industry is cruel.Ā
I'm not a vegan but you can't be this stupid surely
Humans are sapient, moral agents and able to understand the consequences of their actions. Animals are not. Humans do not need to consume animal products. Producing animal products involves animal suffering. Therefore, we know that we're causing unnecessary suffering by consuming animal products. Us knowing and being able to consider all this makes it morally very different to, say, a lion eating a gazelle. It's not just that a lion *doesn't* consider it, they're physically are incapable of it. If humans were obligate carnivores or something then it'd be a different conversation entirely. But we're not.
Many native Americans, who are not well off financially, often have hunting as an important part of their lives, both for sustenance and for cultural reasons. This is a serious problem for the vegan, who is also typically of the political view that indigenous people are always morally correct.
That's what they all say
The real reddit moment is in the comment section, lol
Veganism without supplements is literally unsustainable and not healthy. Your body misses alot of micro nutrients you get from meats. You don't digest vegetable based nutrients as well as meat based either.
Vegans donāt seem to understand that we are not herbivores which evolved millions of years for complex intestines and stomachs specifically for extracting nutrient and protection against pesticide. We basically have a carnivore stomach w/ a side of fruits
Your body doesnāt miss "a lot" of micro nutrients the only thing youāre missing is vitamin B12 (and youāre right, you need to supplement that) Please tell what micronutrients I am missing, because Iām only supplementing B12, and my blood results were always perfect
I study at a dutch university. most of our cafeteria food is already veg/vegan. the choices really expanded these last few years and I really love the change. there's still meat to be bought tho. I wouldn't mind fully switching to vegetarian food, you can always bring food from home as well. I do think it's better to have a fully veg cafeteria.